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Author Topic: Why is Win 8 bad?  (Read 37673 times)
KC4YJI
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« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2014, 10:22:24 PM »

I will have to upgrade at some point. I have a vista laptop, and win 7 starter netbook, but the desktop is XP. I have hung on to it because I use it for drawing cabinets using "Generic CADD". This is a DOS program. I have used this program for about 19 years. Yes, I could (and have several times) buy a new program for windows. The problem is I don't want to spend 40-80 hours to learn a new program, just to be right back where I started. I have tried 6-7 new programs over the years. I can draft about 10 times faster using "Generic CADD" than I can using "General CADD" (General CADD is the windows version of Generic CADD). I can literaly type in a two letter shortcut much faster than I can move the mouse to click on something. Not to mention that I can type in a shortcut with one hand while doing something else with the mouse.

I am not afraid to learn something new , and don't mind change. I don't like to take 3 hours to do a 30 min job. And this is just one program, not to mention the other 10 or so I use on a regular basis. I don't get new programs every year simply because I don't want to waste time to relearn what I already know.

I view me computer as a tool, to get a job done. Just like a hammer. A hammers job is to drive and pull nails. I don't buy a new hammer every year when the new ones come out. I don't up grade to a newer model unless the new one helps me finish the job faster. I don't mind spending the time and money learning a new hammer if it makes the job faster or easier. The time and money I spent on a pneumatic hammer was well spent. It was an upgrade, made the job both easier and faster. This translates to making more money per hour.

My computers is a tool, to get a job done. It is not about the using a dated OS or program. This is about doing a job. I have put off getting a new computer for the same reason I don't want to trade my pneumatic hammer for a regular one.

I think the new win metro would be great on a tablet. And I would love to be able to run the same program on my tablet that I do on my desktop. But a tablet is not a production tool. Yes it has its place, and is becoming more of a production tool as they improve. But my desktop is a production tool, it is used for a job, not entertainment.

When I am working on a job, weather it be drafting, desktop publishing, mp3 editing, photo-editing, video editing, ect. I prefer to stick with what I know. This saves time and that translates into money.

I have been a cabinet maker for about 21 years. And when someone wants a price on a set of cabinets, I want to draw them and have them something to look at as quickly and as easily as possible. With 19 years of using the same program, this does not take long. With my current program, I can make about $400 an hour (while drafting). When I "upgrade" I will make about 1/10 that an hour.

When I "upgrade", I want to have to relearn only once and be able to use it for a long time. That is where I am coming from when I think of upgrading. I have heard very good things about win 7, and bad things about win 8 (although it seems it is just the way the  new metro interface is). I want to relearn a OS that will be here for a long time, so I am considering win 8.1, simply because it should be supported longer than win 7. I will probably install "Classic Shell". That should get me back to a production machine again.



 
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K5UNX
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« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2014, 06:28:04 AM »

The IPad was the best tablet and only got passed because of competition. Apple has always been a innovator and hopefully will continue to be now that Jobs has passed. Micro$oft has never been an innovator and because of that will never be a player in the tablet market even though their HW is very good. Ubuntu has a very viable OS for tablets that works well and could be a real competition for Android if the hw vendors adopt it. I have a Samsung Galaxy running Ubuntu tablet OS, smoother then Android, better memory management and very cool desktop (launcher).

The iPad got passed? I don't think so. A cool desktop launcher does not make a good tablet.
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K5UNX
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« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2014, 06:32:25 AM »

{snip}

My computers is a tool, to get a job done. It is not about the using a dated OS or program. This is about doing a job. I have put off getting a new computer for the same reason I don't want to trade my pneumatic hammer for a regular one.

I think the new win metro would be great on a tablet.

{snip}


Exactly. It's not about the Operating system, it's about the apps.

The thing people that have never actually tried Win 8.x don't see, is that the Metro Interface is not used for desktop apps. You have a standard desktop and apps are window'ed just like in Win 7. The biggest difference is the start menu. It looks like tiles but you can customize it down to just the few apps you use regularly and it's very useful. I find it faster to launch apps than the old start button menu structure.

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AE4RV
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« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2014, 06:48:18 AM »

I get your well-made point, YJI, but the hammer analogy, while pertinent to your argument, leaves me cold. Of course you do not upgrade your hammer, why the heck would you? It's not like Moore's law is improving it by leaps and bounds every couple of years.
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W8JX
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« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2014, 07:43:55 AM »

. Apple got foot in door because MS should have made 7 more like 8
The IPad was the best tablet and only got passed because of competition.

Ipad was the best for a bit only because THERE WAS NO REAL COMPETITION for a while. Once competition arose to challenge Ipad was easily over taken and it will never hold crown again. Apples success in these ventures lasts only as long as followers drink the koolaid. Apple lack the creativity to sustain anything long term. Their keep it all in house and do it their way or not at all mentality will choke them again as it has in past. MS knows it has to change to new techno world and knows it will be painful to many. Apple on other hand has not really changed anything in Ipad/Iphone world and fade is dying and with it sales. When Apple recently tried to block sales of Samsung phone it was a sign of its hey days ending because it knows it lacks resources and innovation to compete otherwise and will wither without help.     
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
KF6QEX
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Posts: 615




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« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2014, 10:20:46 PM »

I get your well-made point, YJI, but the hammer analogy, while pertinent to your argument, leaves me cold. Of course you do not upgrade your hammer, why the heck would you? It's not like Moore's law is improving it by leaps and bounds every couple of years.

You are confusing Moore;s law that usually refers to hardware leaps and bounds with Moron's law where software speed decreases with each new version.
The most common misconception with software is that the "new" version has to look and feel different and along the way to accomplish the same task you now have to learn "the new way". It's software. Soft as in not hard, rigid, fixed, non configurable, written in stone.
SO to spring the "ribbon" interface in office in 2007 was one of the most idiotic things ever done. All of a sudden, it feels like you never user word or excel before, because ...you haven't. Having a way to switch to the original style interface would have been the perfect thing.

It' no different that your mother coming in and re arranging your wife's kitchen cabinets because her way "is better". Give it a try and see what happens.


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KE7TMA
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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2014, 01:55:42 PM »

...While I am not a die hard blind MS fan it does have wide support in software and hardware.

Jeesh, you could have fooled us all with the way you blow the horn for Microshaft and Windoze.

I have just always assumed that he is a reputation manager employed by MS directly or a PR firm hired by MS.  Sadly his defenses of Windows 8 all boil down to the same tired responses about how it's time to "upgrade" to a "touch screen world." 

I would like to see somebody convince me to get Windows 8 by explaining exactly what it can do that XP or 7 or OS X or Linux can't.  Of course it really can't do anything more than those other OSs, so I doubt anybody will try.

It's very telling that most "real" software like Solidworks, Matlab, Mathematica, Autocad, Maple, and so forth *ALL* still support XP. I know of several businesses that are all switching to Linux, FreeBSD, or the Mac because they do not want to replace a bunch of systems every few years as MS would like.
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KE7TMA
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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2014, 02:03:58 PM »

. Apple got foot in door because MS should have made 7 more like 8
The IPad was the best tablet and only got passed because of competition.

Ipad was the best for a bit only because THERE WAS NO REAL COMPETITION for a while. Once competition arose to challenge Ipad was easily over taken and it will never hold crown again. Apples success in these ventures lasts only as long as followers drink the koolaid. Apple lack the creativity to sustain anything long term. Their keep it all in house and do it their way or not at all mentality will choke them again as it has in past. MS knows it has to change to new techno world and knows it will be painful to many. Apple on other hand has not really changed anything in Ipad/Iphone world and fade is dying and with it sales. When Apple recently tried to block sales of Samsung phone it was a sign of its hey days ending because it knows it lacks resources and innovation to compete otherwise and will wither without help.    

Why would you just tell flat out lies like this?  I mean, if you are going to tell lies at least make up stuff that people can not easily look up.  Just so you know, the iPad has never been "easily taken over", as it is still the best selling tablet on the market, as well as the most profitable.

Anyway there still isn't any real competition for the iPad.  The Android tablets are OK but they spy on you like crazy (thanks Google) and software compatibility is a total nightmare.  The Surface is a bit of a joke, and MS loses money on each one sold AFAIK!  I suppose they will just shuffle losses from division to division again like they were busted doing earlier this year to illegally conceal enormous losses from their shareholders.

MS is doomed, don't push this dead-end, brain-dead technology on your fellow hams.  We have tolerated Windows and MS's dirty tricks and low quality for far too long already.
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KE7TMA
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« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2014, 03:43:34 PM »

I have hung on to it because I use it for drawing cabinets using "Generic CADD". This is a DOS program.

If this DOS program is essential to you, you really need to look at DOSBox.  It is a full virtual DOS computer that can run windowed or full screen, and it is *the best* solution for running old DOS software.  DOSBox runs on almost any computer, so you can just install your CAD software and move it from computer to computer without ever having to re-install it ever again.
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W8JX
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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2014, 06:26:35 PM »

 Just so you know, the iPad has never been "easily taken over", as it is still the best selling tablet on the market, as well as the most profitable.

Apple Ipad lost number one slot last year. Guess you have had your head in sand. It slips more everyday. It IS NOT number one selling tablet OS.

Anyway there still isn't any real competition for the iPad.  The Android tablets are OK but they spy on you like crazy (thanks Google) and software compatibility is a total nightmare.
 

When last time you used one? Since about Andriod 4.1x their has been very few problems.  Driod has matured a lot and grow while IOS has stayed the same with mere window dressing changes. When I use a Ipad it kinda feels like a school kids toy of sorts that gets old quick.

The Surface is a bit of a joke, and MS loses money on each one sold AFAIK!  I suppose they will just shuffle losses from division to division again like they were busted doing earlier this year to illegally conceal enormous losses from their shareholders.

Have you used a Surface? I have a clone of it in a Dell running WinRT 8.1 and it BLOWS IOS away big time. I use Win and Driod Tablets daily. Would not use a Ipad if you gave it to me. Too limited. Not even a micro SD slot. Lame. 



MS is doomed, don't push this dead-end, brain-dead technology on your fellow hams.  We have tolerated Windows and MS's dirty tricks and low quality for far too long already.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
W9CLL
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Posts: 56




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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2014, 07:27:03 PM »

As much as I dislike Microsoft I think the Surface is one of the better tablets. M$ finally got one thing right.
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KE7TMA
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Posts: 472




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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2014, 10:10:10 PM »

 Just so you know, the iPad has never been "easily taken over", as it is still the best selling tablet on the market, as well as the most profitable.

Apple Ipad lost number one slot last year. Guess you have had your head in sand. It slips more everyday. It IS NOT number one selling tablet OS.

Anyway there still isn't any real competition for the iPad.  The Android tablets are OK but they spy on you like crazy (thanks Google) and software compatibility is a total nightmare.
 

When last time you used one? Since about Andriod 4.1x their has been very few problems.  Driod has matured a lot and grow while IOS has stayed the same with mere window dressing changes. When I use a Ipad it kinda feels like a school kids toy of sorts that gets old quick.

The Surface is a bit of a joke, and MS loses money on each one sold AFAIK!  I suppose they will just shuffle losses from division to division again like they were busted doing earlier this year to illegally conceal enormous losses from their shareholders.

Have you used a Surface? I have a clone of it in a Dell running WinRT 8.1 and it BLOWS IOS away big time. I use Win and Driod Tablets daily. Would not use a Ipad if you gave it to me. Too limited. Not even a micro SD slot. Lame. 



MS is doomed, don't push this dead-end, brain-dead technology on your fellow hams.  We have tolerated Windows and MS's dirty tricks and low quality for far too long already.

1.  "Android" outsells Apple devices, but this is including every device from every manufacturer that sells anything Android.  No single Android tablet manufacturer even comes close to Apple, whether you count shipped units or profits.  Anyway it's tough to even get good numbers out of Android manufacturers - Google talks about "activations" but who knows what they mean, and Samsung talks about shipped units but they don't mention how many were sold.  I figure if there was no reason to be shady about how many phones you sell to the customer, you wouldn't be, but Google and Samsung both choose to be shady.  I wonder why?

2.  iOS is like OS X, where most of the changes are very minor over time.  If you design a good OS from the get-go you don't have to redo it from the ground up every year.

3.  I have used a Surface and it'd be great if it had better real life battery time, and a different OS.  Damn that sucker gets hot too!  Nah I'm off the Windows treadmill and I'm not going back.  Not to mention that Windows 8 has freakin' banner ads built into the system!
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KE7TMA
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Posts: 472




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« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2014, 10:12:11 PM »

Just so you know, the iPad has never been "easily taken over", as it is still the best selling tablet on the market, as well as the most profitable.

Apple Ipad lost number one slot last year. Guess you have had your head in sand. It slips more everyday. It IS NOT number one selling tablet OS.

Anyway there still isn't any real competition for the iPad.  The Android tablets are OK but they spy on you like crazy (thanks Google) and software compatibility is a total nightmare.
 

When last time you used one? Since about Andriod 4.1x their has been very few problems.  Driod has matured a lot and grow while IOS has stayed the same with mere window dressing changes. When I use a Ipad it kinda feels like a school kids toy of sorts that gets old quick.

The Surface is a bit of a joke, and MS loses money on each one sold AFAIK!  I suppose they will just shuffle losses from division to division again like they were busted doing earlier this year to illegally conceal enormous losses from their shareholders.

Have you used a Surface? I have a clone of it in a Dell running WinRT 8.1 and it BLOWS IOS away big time. I use Win and Driod Tablets daily. Would not use a Ipad if you gave it to me. Too limited. Not even a micro SD slot. Lame.  



MS is doomed, don't push this dead-end, brain-dead technology on your fellow hams.  We have tolerated Windows and MS's dirty tricks and low quality for far too long already.

1.  "Android" outsells Apple devices, but this is including every device from every manufacturer that sells anything Android.  No single Android tablet manufacturer even comes close to Apple, whether you count shipped units or profits.  Anyway it's tough to even get good numbers out of Android manufacturers - Google talks about "activations" but who knows what they mean, and Samsung talks about shipped units but they don't mention how many were sold.  I figure if there was no reason to be shady about how many phones you sell to the customer, you wouldn't be, but Google and Samsung both choose to be shady.  I wonder why?  Anyway this is actually good for Apple, while their competitors are trying to out-do one another in a race to the bottom, they can just sit back and laugh and rake in the cash.

2.  iOS is like OS X, where most of the changes are very minor over time.  If you design a good OS from the get-go you don't have to redo it from the ground up every year.

3.  I have used a Surface and it'd be great if it had better real life battery time, and a different OS.  Damn that sucker gets hot too!  Nah I'm off the Windows treadmill and I'm not going back.  Not to mention that Windows 8 has freakin' banner ads built into the system!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 10:17:31 PM by KE7TMA » Logged
W8JX
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Posts: 6685




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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2014, 04:42:12 AM »

1.  "Android" outsells Apple devices, but this is including every device from every manufacturer that sells anything Android.  No single Android tablet manufacturer even comes close to Apple, whether you count shipped units or profits.

Kinda a irrelevant comment because Samsung is not only Droid tablet maker just like HP is not only Windows PC maker duh. Android is Android regardless of who built it they are buying OS. BTW Samsung alone nearly tripled its own market share while Apple lost about 35 percent last year alone and will loose more this year. MS will gain more traction with time too.   

2.  iOS is like OS X, where most of the changes are very minor over time.  If you design a good OS from the get-go you don't have to redo it from the ground up every year.

This is a bit of a joke because they are falling behind because they are not changing. Example, how do you multitask split window on a Iphone or tablet? You cannot but you can on Droid and Win 8.1 tablets. It is Apples "do it our way" mentality that will kill it just like it did over 20 years ago when it had PC market and lost it. They lacked vision then and now long term.

3.  I have used a Surface and it'd be great if it had better real life battery time, and a different OS.  Damn that sucker gets hot too!  Nah I'm off the Windows treadmill and I'm not going back.  Not to mention that Windows 8 has freakin' banner ads built into the system!

The original Surface has long been replaced. Maybe we should talk about old Ipads too? In first tablet MS was limited to use the few CPU's available but that has changed and so has battery life. My old Dell RT tablet has excellent battery life and runs cool too. Dell used Snapdragon 400 in its tablet which was more efficient than Tegra 3 MS used in first RT tablet. MS now uses a advanced Tegra 4 in Surface 2 that is a lot more powerful and efficient. MS also makes Surface 2 pro series that are full Win 8x PC's in a tablet and more efficient Intel CPU's too. Intel CPU's are making it into Droid tablets too. (i have one of those too) BTW never seen any banners on my tablets.

The point is industry evolves and when Apple try to take on whole market they loose in end because too many giants waking up and working against them. From CPU makers to displays and chipsets and packaging there is this innovation that Apple lacks long term. Apples efforts on trying unsuccessfully to stifle market in court would be better spent on cross licensing their OS and letting others innovate on it but that window is closing too.
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K5UNX
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« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2014, 06:28:43 AM »

This is a bit of a joke because they are falling behind because they are not changing. Example, how do you multitask split window on a Iphone or tablet? You cannot but you can on Droid and Win 8.1 tablets. It is Apples "do it our way" mentality that will kill it just like it did over 20 years ago when it had PC market and lost it. They lacked vision then and now long term.

This is the argument I don't buy. Why would I want split screen anything on a phone? The screen is too small. Now a tablet, maybe but I would rather just switch apps. I can switch from app to app where I left off on each with the iPad. Copt/Paste from one app to another.

Someone mentioned SD slots . . So what? I don't care about SD slots on my tablets. I don't even use them on my phone. With online storage line DropBox/Box.net etc I think they are becoming less needed. There is simply not that much data that I need on my phone. If I need heavy duty data or app capability, that's what the laptop is for.

I think too many people are trying to make tablets out to be laptop replacements and non of them are there yet. Unless the only thing you do with a laptop is browse the web, then maybe.

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