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Author Topic: HF propagation on other planets?  (Read 100589 times)
WA2ISE
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« on: July 10, 2014, 07:36:32 PM »

Silly question, but anyone have theories if HF propagation on say Mars would be similar if not the same as it is on Earth.  From one location on Mars to some other beyond line of sight.  Mars has an atmosphere, thinner than ours, but it probably has an ionosphere.  Both planets share the same Sun, and thus subject to the same solar cycle. 

I doubt we could do QSOs between Earth and Mars, assuming ham astronauts took some gear to Mars (won't be soon...). 
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AK7V
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 08:02:28 AM »

I think it's an awesome question.

Mars has a weaker magnetic field, and that probably means that its ionosphere is effected more by solar wind than ours is.  So I don't think it would be very similar to earth, propagation-wise.  Probably worse.  Maybe like ours is in the middle of the worst solar flare/solar storm/radio black-out ever.

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AF5CC
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 09:00:27 PM »

I think it's an awesome question.

Mars has a weaker magnetic field, and that probably means that its ionosphere is effected more by solar wind than ours is.  So I don't think it would be very similar to earth, propagation-wise.  Probably worse.  Maybe like ours is in the middle of the worst solar flare/solar storm/radio black-out ever.



I have wondered this myself. Is there any way to tell whether Mars (or other planets) actually have an ionosphere?  Venus doesn't have a magnetic field at all, and is closer to the sun, so it would be getting clobbered by the solar wind, but does it have an ionosphere?  I do know that Jupiter has auroras, so VHF propagation would be possible, plus lots of satellites for JSJ (Jupiter-Satellite-Jupiter) QSOs like our EME.

John AF5CC
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K6EK
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 03:02:55 PM »

Why not ask your question (a dandy one, BTW) to the good folks at JPL in Pasadena, CA ?  I'd think they would know.

Ken
K6EK
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G4IJE
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 07:04:03 AM »

Great question. This looks interesting:

http://sci.esa.int/mars-express/51056-new-views-of-the-martian-ionosphere/

So there may be some kind of ionospheric HF propagation on Mars. I wonder when the first QSO will take place?
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WA2ISE
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 11:47:07 AM »

Quote
I wonder when the first QSO will take place?

I imagine it would be between a pair of surface space probes, like rovers with HF transcievers.  Not ham rigs, but some sort of SDRs.  I'd imagine the scientists would have one probe transmit a frequency chirp ranging from say 100KHz to 50MHz, while the other probe is listening.  Do that often enough, and you could find out if 10 meters is better in daytime, and MW better at night.  Long enough, and you could also find out about the solar cycle. The probes could "talk" to each other to coordinate these "QSOs". 
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W8GP
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 11:41:03 AM »

The ionosphere is an atmospheric phenomenon. The fact that Mars has a minimal atmosphere, coupled with the fact that the solar radiation reaching Mars is much less than Earth, I would think it unlikely that the ion density would be strong enough to refract radio waves to any great extent.
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W8JX
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 06:27:34 AM »

Quote
I wonder when the first QSO will take place?

I imagine it would be between a pair of surface space probes, like rovers with HF transcievers.  Not ham rigs, but some sort of SDRs.  I'd imagine the scientists would have one probe transmit a frequency chirp ranging from say 100KHz to 50MHz, while the other probe is listening.  Do that often enough, and you could find out if 10 meters is better in daytime, and MW better at night.  Long enough, and you could also find out about the solar cycle. The probes could "talk" to each other to coordinate these "QSOs". 

Why in the world would they waste time with HF??  They would use frequencies in giga hertz with small efficient antennas for point to point and satellite for beyond line of sight.
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KB4QAA
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 01:24:18 PM »

Mars has no global magnetic field.  All that remains are isolated weakly magnetic rocks as a remnant of a previous global field.
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W8JX
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2014, 07:50:56 AM »

Mars has no global magnetic field.  All that remains are isolated weakly magnetic rocks as a remnant of a previous global field.

Very true. A planet needs a molten core to generate a strong field and Mar's core cooled long ago. As a result the most of atmosphere was stripped away over eons by solar radiation and with it ionosphere. 
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SWMAN
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 01:09:12 PM »

Spock will know for sure.
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W8JX
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2014, 09:39:37 AM »

Spock will know for sure.

This is like simple physics and common knowledge if you know anything about solar system. Try reading more and posting less you might learn something.
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SWMAN
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 09:53:11 AM »

JX, what are you trying to say ?
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W8JX
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 11:41:16 AM »

JX, what are you trying to say ?

Some that do not understand how and why things work tend to attack those that do. I see that a lot here.
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KA1TY
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 06:43:03 AM »

Great question. This looks interesting:

http://sci.esa.int/mars-express/51056-new-views-of-the-martian-ionosphere/

So there may be some kind of ionospheric HF propagation on Mars. I wonder when the first QSO will take place?

They already have. Well, Earth-Mars-Earth ones.  NASA has sent lots of commands to the rovers. Smiley
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