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Author Topic: FCC fines ...  (Read 18991 times)
N5WRX
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Posts: 31




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« on: July 24, 2014, 12:10:27 PM »

I wonder if the FCC were to reduce their fines to a few hundred dollars the process would work more like it should.
The offender would pay the fine and hopefully correct his behavior.
I think a warning letter with a $200 fine would be more in line with most infractions that happen on the bands.
If the person continued to commit infractions then suspension of privileges should follow.
I do think this would help to clear up some of the mess and perhaps correct some hams bad behavior.
That smaller sum of money would be a lot more collectable than the large fines being issued by the FCC.

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KC9YTJ
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Posts: 78




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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2014, 12:30:40 PM »

So how long do you go after paying a speeding ticket (more or less the same magnitude as what you propose) before you start speeding again? Smiley

The amounts aren't too high.  The amount of a NAL can be negotiated down (in cases of inability to pay) or paid in installments.  What's wrong with the FCC enforcement process is that it takes too long.  KZ8O should have been handed a NAL within 6 months of his first notice (which was in 1998!) if he didn't cease and desist.  Instead this dragged out for 16 years and resulted in a $22K NAL.

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N5WRX
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Posts: 31




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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2014, 12:40:46 PM »

So how long do you go after paying a speeding ticket (more or less the same magnitude as what you propose) before you start speeding again? Smiley

The amounts aren't too high.  The amount of a NAL can be negotiated down (in cases of inability to pay) or paid in installments.  What's wrong with the FCC enforcement process is that it takes too long.  KZ8O should have been handed a NAL within 6 months of his first notice (which was in 1998!) if he didn't cease and desist.  Instead this dragged out for 16 years and resulted in a $22K NAL.



And 16 years from now it still wont be settled.
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WA2ISE
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2014, 01:01:12 PM »

It seems you have to work at it to get fined by the FCC.  Maybe the FCC figures that mistakes like misadjusted transmitters are quickly found by hams and resolved by themselves, and/or the FCC doesn't have the resources to worry about that. 
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KE4JOY
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Posts: 1381




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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2014, 01:32:43 PM »

You mean those guys with the Kenwood 990S, 2KW linears, 100 foot towers with multi element yagis?

Yea they would pay the 'smaller' fines and giggle.
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N0IU
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Posts: 1329


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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2014, 02:10:59 PM »

I think a warning letter with a $200 fine would be more in line with most infractions that happen on the bands.

Obviously you have not thought this through!

So if you got a "warning letter" from the FCC saying that you are guilty of a certain offense and you now owe them $200, would you pay it?

In this country we have a thing called due process. Even if you get stopped for speeding or running a stop light, you have the opportunity to have your day before a judge and plead your case.

In this country it is your Constitutional right to meet your accuser and have your day in court. The plaintiff must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty and you have the right to defend yourself.

This process is expensive, especially when it involves accusing someone of violating the Code of Federal Regulations. That's why these fines are so high.

$200 won't even buy an hour's time with a D.C. attorney. If someone ends up paying a $10,000 fine, I would venture a guess that even that amount is not that much of a money maker for the FCC.

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KC9YTJ
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Posts: 78




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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2014, 02:28:28 PM »

It's also why the FCC calls them "notices of apparent liability" rather than "fines". 
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KT4WO
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Posts: 153


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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 07:24:01 PM »

It almost takes an act of god to get the FCC to enforce ANYTHING on the ham bands,,,
If you get a NAL then you are a piece of crap!!!!!!!....period
and deserve what you get.
Now if we could get the FCC to do this a few hundred more times!!!

I would pay, every year, for my ticket if they would just ENFORCE the rules,,,,It
would be worth it.

KT4WO

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NK7Z
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 09:00:10 PM »

I think the FCC is going to start pushing these sorts of things...  The ARRL has asked them to get into the picture more, and it seems they are.  There is a new person in charge of the Enforcement part of things...  Only time will tell.
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3900




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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 07:42:46 AM »

Quote
I wonder if the FCC were to reduce their fines to a few hundred dollars the process would work more like it should.
The offender would pay the fine and hopefully correct his behavior.
I think a warning letter with a $200 fine would be more in line with most infractions that happen on the bands.
If the person continued to commit infractions then suspension of privileges should follow.
I do think this would help to clear up some of the mess and perhaps correct some hams bad behavior.
That smaller sum of money would be a lot more collectable than the large fines being issued by the FCC.

This "plea bargaining" is one of the problems we have in our judicial system because of jail space and several other 'reasons.'

These 14,313 (and others) offenders were repeatedly notified and they continued their act.  There comes a time to go nuclear and hammer them!  If it bankrupts them, too damn bad.  These are adults, not children, even though they act like children. 

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K2GWK
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Posts: 499


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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 03:36:32 PM »

What really irkes the crap out of me is that a earning a Ham ticket is a privilege and not a constitutional right. Those who earn their tickets are fully aware of the rules and the consequences. I am fully in support of the higher fines for breaking the rules and if they could be made higher I would support that also. Those who break the rules do so knowing the consequences and in a lot of cases could have dire consequences. There are a number of bands fairly close to our VHF and UHF bands that support local fire departments and Ambulance Corps. Let those are are caught playing their silly games pay the maximum fines and loose their privilege as there are no excuses for their childish stupidity.
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W7ARX
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Posts: 454




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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2014, 03:27:54 AM »

For me personally, I don't get it.  Why do all this stupid stuff and then complain about getting ones hands slapped.  Whatever.  Everyone has the same set of rules to operate by, Riley said some time ago to avoid that frequency as it is a bad neighborhood, sound advice.  I just hope the initial net toss captures a whole host of other nit wits that I could list in this post that are way worse then K3VR.  I also hope the Canadians man-up and take the Canadian Clown (s) off the air.  I am sick of this nonsense, this sparring, this bickering.  Grow up, turn the dial, meet somewhere else.  They do it to get the dust stirred up.  You play with this nonsense, I don't have too much sympathy for the consequences.  They assumed far too long they could get by with it.  I just hope they (Feds) reel in the others also.
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KF7CG
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2014, 06:11:17 AM »

What you are missing in this discussion, is that the alleged offenders are not innocent until proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" but only to "a preponderence of evidence". That is why the Notice of Apparent Liability, it becomes a Civil infraction and comes with lesser rules for proof and accusation.

Traffic tickets have for the most part been moved into this category. Big difference between "reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of evidence". Just ask a lawyer.

KF7CG
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W8MW
Member

Posts: 326




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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2014, 07:18:41 AM »

I would pay, every year, for my ticket if they would just ENFORCE the rules,,,,It would be worth it.

Good one 4WO!  Common sense in practical application.

Hobby radio operators need government protection from other hobby radio operators.  With more federal resources we'll have a better hobby experience. Run that past your non-ham taxpayer neighbors some time.

We should pay enforcement costs and all administrative costs for our hobby, not the general public.



« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 08:17:24 AM by W8MW » Logged
K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3900




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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2014, 10:34:30 AM »

Quote
We should pay enforcement costs and all administrative costs for our hobby, not the general public.

This only works in the perfect world.  If we paid for enforcement the money would simply be swallowed up in that black hole called government bureaucracy.

An example of this is the sporting goods/license taxes.  Many years ago the sportsmen (hunters and fishermen) demanded that a tax be levied on all sporting goods including guns and ammunition to be used for game conservation.  (Name one other group that has demanded a tax be added to whatever they buy)

As a result the various conservation commissions within each state were formed and as a result our game and fish resources were not only saved but have flourished.

Then, as to be expected, a great deal of this tax money created a bloated bureaucracy that has done nothing but perpetuate itself.

Social Security is probably the greatest example of what I'm trying to say.  We pay into SS and it has been used for several other programs throughout it's history.  The politicians simply can't keep their fingers out of the pot!!

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