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Author Topic: FCC fines ...  (Read 16508 times)
W8MW
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Posts: 326




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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 12:02:10 PM »

>The politicians simply can't keep their fingers out of the pot!!

If somebody is going to dispute your logic, it won't be me.  Point taken. 

Still, taxpayer funding of an esoteric hobby whose total participants are <.003 of the US population?  Seems to me this would be difficult to explain if any of us was the only amateur in the room with 400 other taxpayers who fund their own hobbies.

To sway public opinion in our direction should we launch a propaganda campaign telling everybody how we're going to save the day when bad stuff happens?  How about something like "When Nobody Else's Radio Works" we'll be there.
 
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N0IU
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 03:19:42 PM »

What you are missing in this discussion, is that the alleged offenders are not innocent until proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" but only to "a preponderence of evidence". That is why the Notice of Apparent Liability, it becomes a Civil infraction and comes with lesser rules for proof and accusation.

Traffic tickets have for the most part been moved into this category. Big difference between "reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of evidence". Just ask a lawyer.

KF7CG

My point was that the alleged offender must in some way be proven guilty. You can't just send out a notice saying that you owe the FCC $200.
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12856




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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2014, 04:07:16 PM »

If you want to compare it to a traffic violation:
1) You are issued a ticket which charges you with speeding.
2) You have a choice to pay your ticket on line (which amounts to a guilty plea) or you can choose to plead not guilty, go to court, and require the government to prove their case against you.
3) If you get enough speeding tickets they will suspend your license. You can either accept that or choose to go to court and make the government prove their case against you.
4) If you operate a vehicle with a suspended license you'll wind up in court. Do it a few times and the judge will have you locked up.

It seems to me that the same process *could* be applied to FCC violations.


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K8AXW
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Posts: 3864




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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 10:06:06 PM »

IU:  When an FCC fine is levied, it is exactly like PB points out.  The FCC has taken steps to solidify their case and sends the "ticket."

In every case I've followed this letter has been answered with "I can't pay $22,000."  Along with that is necessary documentation to prove they can't.  I have never seen an instance where the recipient has said, "I didn't do this!"   

The fine is usually knocked down considerably but still leaves a considerable amount to be paid.  If you still feel it is unjust, you have the option of taking the FCC to court and pleading your case. 

This is the procedure with any infraction of any law.
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W7ARX
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Posts: 438




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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 04:00:57 AM »

For what it's worth, I hope the Feds and Industry Canada work together to help clean things up, however they do it, as that frequency has been an eyesore for decades, first one nut group and then another...don't know why....either way, while there is momentum, I sincerely hope that it does tone down and fade away, period.  Be nice not to have that kind of noteriety on our bands about something as stupid as the antics on 313....I hope they round up the lot that have been violating the rules and spank them....
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N0IU
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2014, 06:04:43 AM »

If you still feel it is unjust, you have the option of taking the FCC to court and pleading your case. 

This is the procedure with any infraction of any law.

This is precisely why this notion of $200 "fines" won't work. If the FCC were to issue one of these fines and the person just pays it, it is probably a break even proposition for the FCC. If there was any sort of appeal, the FCC would most likely dismiss the charges because it would cost too much for them to collect such a paltry sum.

Even though the FCC prevailed in their case against K1MAN, I can't imagine that they actually made any money on this. I know their ultimate purpose is to enforce the Code of Federal Regulations as it applies to us. Punishing people who break the law is one thing, but losing money in the process is another.
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N0SYA
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Posts: 369




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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 06:41:48 AM »

The fcc boys and girls are there every day getting paid anyway, so how is going after bad HAMs not something they should be doing? Also it's likely good training for them for when it counts in the real world, you know, far away from HAM radio.
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If you have a clumsy child, you make them wear a helmet. If you have death prone children, you keep a few clones of them in your lab.
K8AXW
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Posts: 3864




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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 09:02:28 AM »

Quote
This is precisely why this notion of $200 "fines" won't work. If the FCC were to issue one of these fines and the person just pays it, it is probably a break even proposition for the FCC.

Exactly!  I figure $200 would pay for the lunches of these investigators during the time they were compiling evidence! 

There are only two ways to control people and their actions.  They are respect and fear.  Back in the day, there was both.  Today there is neither.

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W7ARX
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Posts: 438




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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2014, 05:43:56 PM »

Even with the two recent NALs, the QRMing and BS on that frequency seems to actually be worse with the VE Clown running rampant...either way, it is a nut farm...spin that dial....period.  Perhaps if more ignore and don't participate, they will lose interest in each other..(LOL).....

Be a while to see what transpires.....

Perhaps another net is being ready to haul in some other fish.....
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KI6LZ
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Posts: 586




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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2014, 05:53:51 PM »

Funny that some think all will clear up with all the fines and notices being issued by the FCC. My prediction is that is will have no affect what so ever. Just like the death penalty deterring violent crime.
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KA5IPF
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2014, 09:14:25 PM »

Funny that some think all will clear up with all the fines and notices being issued by the FCC. My prediction is that is will have no affect what so ever. Just like the death penalty deterring violent crime.

Sure it does, that criminal will never commit another crime.
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N0SYA
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Posts: 369




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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2014, 06:28:52 AM »

Funny that some think all will clear up with all the fines and notices being issued by the FCC. My prediction is that is will have no affect what so ever. Just like the death penalty deterring violent crime.

Yeah, everybody should just give up.
Stop going to work since you're only going to spend the money anway.
Stop eating because you'll just poop it all out later.
Stop breathing because you'll die soon enough anyway.
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If you have a clumsy child, you make them wear a helmet. If you have death prone children, you keep a few clones of them in your lab.
W1IT
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Posts: 142




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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2014, 06:00:10 AM »

 
  Well, guys and those few females who may read this. Let me tell you all hell broke loose when mail woman brings an official FCC certified to my door. Ok, am I a bad guy? Do I swear, cause QRM intentionally? No, but I got slammed with a WARNING. What was it about you ask.. well.. it said, I failed to identify in a timely way. That long distance employees with DF had established such terrible Unidentified signals were coming from my vicinity.
No response was required, but it stated a recording would be available to me if I requested it and paid the postage!Now, as for the FCC, one can only wonder what political forces  provoke them to selectively warn, fine or even inspect stations.

My opinion has been and continues, the call sign should be in a chip on your radio and when you unlock it, it could with cw, packet or whatever, automatically ID your station.
In my case, sadly, I've been in this hobby so long 50 years, what does it matter. But, my warning also said failure to TIMELY ID had a 1000 dollar base fine and or possible restriction of bands, modes etc. you may operate one.

I'm just curious what is so incredibly important about a ham station that FCC fixes fines for violators that exceed those they would charge a million dollar broadcaster?

Things that go bump in the night. And what I think, somebody just didn't like my style of operation so began the Miss Laura .. he's doing us wrong whine. So, its a political thing and its an over kill if you do get nailed.
 Grin
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KA5IPF
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 06:31:02 AM »

What's your gripe? Did you or did you not fail to ID properly? If you didn't you know the rules for ID'ing, they haven't changed in 50 years except for being more relaxed.

Sounds to me like a guilty dog barking.
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W1IT
Member

Posts: 142




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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 06:37:34 AM »

Funny that some think all will clear up with all the fines and notices being issued by the FCC. My prediction is that is will have no affect what so ever. Just like the death penalty deterring violent crime.

Sure it does, that criminal will never commit another crime.

Currently 14.313 is quiet. The problem: FCC cannot change the behaviors of thousands of people, witnesses the FCC back off on the CB band. Which currently has more freedom than does any amateur band.
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