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Author Topic: Reality Time: FCC Defines Basis and Purpose of Amatuer Radio  (Read 11201 times)
K2GWK
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 02:14:16 PM »

OK, this is my take on the purpose, and it is very similar to  W1IT comments...

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

True, ham radio has in the past been a big help in natural disasters, BUT, due to the FCC hams could do more.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

Really??? I would say that this is to some degree out dated. Maybe back in the 1930's when hams were freely allowed to experiment with with new ways to communicate, but not today. I mean if hams and the ARRL have to petition the FCC to experiment with a new mode or ask about new modes, doesn't it make this rule redundant. Hams should be allowed to experiment with new modes regardless. The only rule regrading experimentation is it shouldn't interfere with other communications...that's it. We shouldn't have to ask or even petition the FCC for a new mode. I also believe the technical limitations in the amateur radio service has rendered ham radio, to nothing more then a licensed CB radio service. Because the technical limits in the amateur radio service has greatly rendered Part 97.1 (b) useless

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.

In what way, With the idea that experimentation limited; the idea of “technical phase of the art” is limited to “Yeah Jim I just put up this new Yagi I bought off of AES” I mean lets face it, ham radio operators technical skills has come down to antenna's, coax and some FCC type accepted radio that they bought at AES or some other ham radio store. (*Sorry AES I don't mean to pick on you) AND THAT'S THE TRUTH! Over the years hams have been limited by the FCC regarding experimentation. Like I said above Why do we have to petition the FCC for a new mode or to experiment in a new mode, when we should be allowed to do it.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

Maybe back between 1930 and 1950  when ham radio operators, would get their licenses and then go ahead and go to electronic school and get a job in electronics. The reality is ham radio operators are mostly old guys (although there is very small percentage of kids in amateur radio) that use ham radio for the sole purpose to do nothing more but chat with people. I believe the “reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts” has to some degree dry up.
 
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

Again maybe between 1930 and 1990. Back when ham radio was the only means to communicate with a foreign country. I mean before 1990 you could call someone up on the phone and talk to someone in a foreign country, if you knew that person. I mean calling some random person on the phone just to chat is not only creepy, but stupid. The reality is thanks to the Internet this part of the purpose has to some degree become out dated. Anyone can promote International goodwill thanks to the internet and thanks to the internet, people can do the same things ham radio operators can do, even more.

In closing, Ham radio needs to change, not only from the operators but the rules. The rules governing ham radio is to some degree out dated and or defend the purpose of  Part 91.1. The so-called “national organization” apparently likes to keep ham radio way it is, or changes would be made.  Like I said why should ham radio operators have to petition the FCC for a new mode or be allowed to experiment in a new mode.  I believe amateur's should be allowed to experiment where they want, provided it doesn't cause malicious interference. I think a lot of the rules need to be done away with because they are either 1. outdated and 2. they themselves defeat this part of the amateur radio service.

Todd N9OGL

Spoken by someone whose license expired back in February of 2012. You are not even legally a Ham now.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 02:19:31 PM by K2GWK » Logged

N9OGL
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 02:48:57 PM »

Actually, yes I am licensed...see 47 CFR 1.62 which states:

"(1) Where there is pending before the Commission at the time of expiration of license any proper and timely application for renewal of license with respect to any activity of a continuing nature, in accordance with the provisions of section 9(b) of the Administrative Procedure Act, such license shall continue in effect without further action by the Commission until such time as the Commission shall make a final determination with respect to the renewal application."

My license application renewal was timely filed, therefore my license is valid until the FCC acts on the renewal, per the APA. So technically I now have a life time license Smiley
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W1IT
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 03:14:51 PM »

Todd N9OGL
[/quote]


What get's me about these letters regarding not iding, is the fact that there are ham radio operators out there who are "anal" about it. I mean who sits there, with a clock to check if a person ID's ever ten minutes? Like I said on another post ham should worry about themselves and not other. There also the fact people sometimes people forget the time to ID. I knew people on 2 meter who would talk for a half hour without iding. No one complained, why we were anal about it, We didn't make it our life to complain about some so as frivolous as that.

Todd N9OGL
[/quote]

At the risk of sounding really anti-ARRL, lets face it, if somebody wants to " get you" and the FCC finds they need more than hearsay evidence (note Hollingsworth had no trouble accusing on third party hearsay), they will listen until they find something to warn you about. After you have been warned, you are then open to those ghastly draconian  fine, starting at 1000 dollars for failure to ID (in a timely way)
But ID's can be fudged, they can be taped from somebody else, and what is their purpose anyway, if the FCC can DF you despite an ID ? Its all smelly and its all FCC playing bully games to get a grin from somebody.
Now, ARRL could suggest the siccum and probably L Smith Esq. would start her vibrator going?
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G3RZP
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 03:26:19 PM »

Tod,

When  it comes to emergency comms, bear in mind that the US has signed up to the international Radio Regulations. That includes

4.9      No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by a station in distress, or by a station providing assistance to it, of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to attract attention, make known the condition and location of the station in distress, and obtain or provide assistance.

4.16      However, in circumstances involving the safety of life, or the safety of a ship or aircraft, a land station may communicate with fixed stations or land stations of another category.

30.2   § 2   No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by a mobile station or a mobile earth station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its position, and obtain help (see also No. 4.9).

30.3   § 3   No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by stations on board aircraft, ships engaged in search and rescue operations, land stations, or coast earth stations, in exceptional circumstances, of any means at their disposal to assist a mobile station or a mobile earth station in distress (see also Nos. 4.9 and 4.16).

Which sort of indicates that a station in the ham bands not licenced can, in cases of distress, be legal.....

I tend to guess that maybe the authorities haven't really thought the implications of that one through....
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N9OGL
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 03:29:55 PM »

That's how I got my two warning letters, based on heresay. The FCC not once checked the field strength of my part 15 station, nor did they inspect it, I have proof of it. The FCC based those warning letters on material the hams were getting off the internet...ONE YEAR after my part 15 station was shut down, due to a bad harddrive, NOT THE FCC!

I say right now that I'm on 6.955 Mhz broadcasting with 200 watts, but that doesn't make it so. Like I told Riley "don't believe everything you read on the internet" apparently FCC doesn't know about concept of trolling.

Todd N9OGL
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N9OGL
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 03:35:54 PM »

Tod,

When  it comes to emergency comms, bear in mind that the US has signed up to the international Radio Regulations. That includes

4.9      No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by a station in distress, or by a station providing assistance to it, of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to attract attention, make known the condition and location of the station in distress, and obtain or provide assistance.

4.16      However, in circumstances involving the safety of life, or the safety of a ship or aircraft, a land station may communicate with fixed stations or land stations of another category.

30.2   § 2   No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by a mobile station or a mobile earth station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its position, and obtain help (see also No. 4.9).

30.3   § 3   No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by stations on board aircraft, ships engaged in search and rescue operations, land stations, or coast earth stations, in exceptional circumstances, of any means at their disposal to assist a mobile station or a mobile earth station in distress (see also Nos. 4.9 and 4.16).

Which sort of indicates that a station in the ham bands not licenced can, in cases of distress, be legal.....

I tend to guess that maybe the authorities haven't really thought the implications of that one through....


Sometimes the FCC doesn't see it that way.

Tod N9OGL
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N9OGL
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 03:39:12 PM »

My big thing is in regards to experimentation and the double standards within the law regarding it.

Tod N9OGL
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2014, 05:24:41 PM »

To those who don't agree with the FCC definition of the Basis and Purpose of Amatuer (sic) Radio - I suggest that you immediately surrender your license and post your list of equipment for sale in this thread.
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W6EM
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 05:52:36 PM »

My big thing is in regards to experimentation and the double standards within the law regarding it.

Tod N9OGL
Todd:  I’m not a huge fan of the Commission.  As has been said by others, they more often than not base decisions on where the money is.  And, with a former CATV executive as the new Chairman, we shouldn’t expect active interest in accommodating outdoor antennas.  CC&Rs were created to engender that industry by forcing homeowners to buy cable service.

Here are some cites that allow amateurs to go anywhere, and communicate with anyone under extreme emergency circumstances.  Although not when other means are available.


47CFR § 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

47CFR § 97.405 Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.

Experimemtal licenses are routinely granted by the FCC.  See Part 1 of the Commission’s rules for application info and fee sechedules.  If you want to try a new mode or a particular frequency band, tell then your story...
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WN2C
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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2014, 12:17:03 AM »

To those who don't agree with the FCC definition of the Basis and Purpose of Amatuer (sic) Radio - I suggest that you immediately surrender your license and post your list of equipment for sale in this thread.

Who would buy it?
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W3DBB
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« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2014, 05:51:48 AM »

In 1948 the FCC was reorganized. Amateur radio fell under the Safety and Special Service Bureau. This branch had a fair amount of autonomy and evidently not much to do. A study of amateur radio was undertaken. An NPRM was the result.

It included a new Basis And Purpose which implied new goals in amateur radio would henceforth come from Commission staff rather than from spontaneous generation in the field. This was controversial at the time. I think I can see why. It was a shift from grass roots evolution of ham radio to government direction spelling out what amateur radio would be. Competing political ideologies. Guess it depended on which party was in power. Just like today.

Other highlights of the NPRM:
Creation of 3 new license classes- Amateur Extra, Technician, and Novice.
Renaming Classes A, B, & C as Advanced, General, and Conditional, respectively.
Providing for the elimination of the old Class A (Advanced) license at a certain date in the future either by voluntary testing and promotion to Extra Class or being renewed as a General.
A new section of 75 meter 'phone 3800-3850 kHz with a 3 (!) kHz bandwidth, and bandwidth limit of 6 kHz for the remainder of 75 meters and all of the 20 meter 'phone band, both bands limited to holders of Advanced and the new Amateur Extra Class license.
An RTTY band at 10 meters, a 10 kHz bandwidth for 'phone in most of the band and a 6 kHz bandwidth limit at the high end of 10 meters.
A new renewal procedure specifying 50 hours of operation within the license term or 10 hours in the last 6 months of the license term.
An affirmation of the ability of the licensee at renewal to copy Morse Code at 20, 13, or 5 words per minute depending on license class.
A new rule requiring there to be a net control station in any communication involving more than 2 stations at a time. (This one's a real thigh-slapper. A regulatory requirement for a Master of Ceremonies!)

There were the inevitable counter-proposals from the ARRL and other groups. After some changes Docket 9295, as it came to be known, was adopted in 1949. In many ways it is the template for amateur radio in the U.S. we still have today.
 
This is where and when the Part 97 Basis And Purpose we today either take literally, regard as boilerplate, or think could stand some trimming, issued forth.

I take the Basis And Purpose for what it is. Sixty-five years after adoption- it's boilerplate! Do not take internally, or least try not to take it too seriously. It means what it says... to a point. I'm not sure if I can recall a ham being cited by the FCC for violating Part 97's Basis And Purpose.

I do take a dim view of various attempts to turn amateur radio into government radio, hospital radio, or commercial radio. The justifications are always flimsy but you can fool most people at least some of the time.

I'm afraid we're stuck with Part 97 and its Basis And Purpose- be it good, bad, or indifferent- probably to the end..., and beyond. For you see, one of these days the FCC is going to completely wash its hands of amateur radio and outsource its regulation to some private group. I rue the day. Then you'll see who the bad guys really are.
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W1IT
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« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2014, 06:13:01 AM »

In 1948 the FCC was reorganized. Amateur radio fell under the Safety and Special Service Bureau. This branch had a fair amount of autonomy and evidently not much to do. A study of amateur radio was undertaken. An NPRM was the result.

There were the inevitable counter-proposals from the ARRL and other groups. After some changes Docket 9295, as it came to be known, was adopted in 1949. In many ways it is the template for amateur radio in the U.S. we still have today.
 


First, let me thank YOU so much for a complete and insightful history of the FCC and HR. The one thing I will share, my recent form letter from L Smith ESQ for what was said going over time or perhaps not ID as required, says and I quote,
" Your operation, as described above is CONTRARY to the basis and purpose of the amateur radio service as set out in section 97.1 and a violation of section 97.119(a) of the Commissions rules."

Did you all notice the " and statement", no explanation given of an opinion, not congruent to basis and purpose.
This is just an outrageous statement, because she without stating a violation per se, address something in MY COMMENTS or style of operation...

Well, enough to suggest FCC is about as unwired and in need to finding a reason for its Amateur Radio Enforcement division a reason to EXIST at all !
I suppose Smith could find contesting, just bull crapping and Nets to be in congruence with stated basis and purpose?

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K8AXW
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« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2014, 07:53:21 AM »

Boys and girls, isn't time to stop this nonsense and put IT on your "ignore" list?  

Obviously he's a troll and enjoying this spreading of hate and discontent. Suggesting he quit ham radio, etc., is nonsense as well because this is where he gets his audience.

His multiple posts about the same thing here on eHam proves this.

While it's difficult to ignore his unfounded rants, it CAN be done with just a couple key clicks.  No need to leave the building or leave the room for that matter.  Just a couple key clicks.



« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 07:55:36 AM by K8AXW » Logged
W9FIB
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« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2014, 11:23:07 AM »

Boys and girls, isn't time to stop this nonsense and put IT on your "ignore" list?  

Obviously he's a troll and enjoying this spreading of hate and discontent. Suggesting he quit ham radio, etc., is nonsense as well because this is where he gets his audience.

His multiple posts about the same thing here on eHam proves this.

While it's difficult to ignore his unfounded rants, it CAN be done with just a couple key clicks.  No need to leave the building or leave the room for that matter.  Just a couple key clicks.
Yes he sounds like PIU or JX.
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W7ASA
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« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2014, 04:51:47 PM »

aaaaand INto the bit bucket he goes! 

Spa-loosh

NNNN


de Ray
W7ASA
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