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Author Topic: APRS in XYL (non-ham)'s vehicle?  (Read 1298 times)
KI6BEO
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« on: November 28, 2005, 04:21:36 PM »

My XYL has a tendancy to take the sceneic route to places that she's previously not been to, often with little success (i.e. she gets lost) and I get a phone call at work asking how to get home.

I just read an article from the October '04 issue of QST about a "Pocket Sized" APRS transmitter that's built in an Altiod can that piques my interest.

I'm wondering of the legality of running one of these in my wife's car.  Technically, it's not a station that I will have direct or remote control over when it's running most of the time, but neither will she or any other non-liscensed operator.  I plan to set it up to run only when the ignition is on, as any other time would be unnecessary.  I also am planning on running another APRS station in my vehicle.

How does the law apply to this?  Would it be legal to run the APRS in her car, even if she's not a licensed operator?  Again, she would have no control over the unit, as it would automatically start when the ignition is turned on.

Thanks!
Rob
KI6BEO
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N6AJR
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2005, 04:31:24 PM »

technically it's probably illegal, but I suppose you could tell her to unplug it, if you had a problem..that would put you in control.

  I had a ham buddy a while back and put one in his daughters car, unknown to his daughter, and used it to "keep an eye" on her.. I have never heard of the fcc burning anyone  for using aprs in thier own cars..

I accually thiunk you should buy a garmin V and program your home address in ti and then when she gets lost, she turns on the garmin and goes to "find" and "home" and follows the directions..
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AA4PB
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2005, 04:40:13 PM »

97.221(b): A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on the 6m or shorter wavelength bands ....

On 6M and higher it is legal as an automatically controlled digital station. Below 6M you would have to remain within the specified automatic control sub-bands.
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KI6BEO
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2005, 06:27:52 PM »

>>
I had a ham buddy a while back and put one in his daughters car, unknown to his daughter, and used it to "keep an eye" on her..
<<

That's underhanded and sneaky...  I'll have to remember to do this to my son's car when he comes of age!
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KI6BEO
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2005, 06:33:08 PM »

>>97.221(b): A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on the 6m or shorter wavelength bands ....
<<

This is exactly what I needed to know!  I plan on transmitting in the 2M band, so it will pose no problem.

Thank you for your help!
Rob
KI6BEO
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2005, 08:48:31 PM »

When I posed this question to the FCC's Riley Hollingsworth he indicated that it is NOT legal to do.

An answer right the from the source.

Dennis KG4RUL
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HA5RXZ
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2005, 05:05:27 AM »

The alternative (if you cannot be reached) is that your XYL has to stop and ask a stranger for directions. Depending on the area this may not be a good thing. Go for it, even if it might be against the FCC rules I'm sure that they will understand.

Some readers may wonder why our XYL's and YL's have problems with navigation (and my YL can't navigate out of a paper bag). The answer is that men have more spatial awareness, extensive research has been done by psychologists and a Google search finds some fascinating material.

Just to even things out, the ladies are better at 'multi-tasking' (just watch a woman prepare a meal) and have better dexterity. Their voices are also clearer over a radio, which is why the Royal Air Force used female WT operators during WWII.

HA5RXZ
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AA4PB
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2005, 05:53:00 AM »

Did Riley explain why it is not legal in light of 97.221(b) appearing to permit it?

There are other non-FCC laws that would prohibit you from putting it on someone else's car without them knowing about it (privacy issues).
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2005, 08:38:10 AM »

The text of Riley Hollingsworth's E-Mail:

===============

All I can say is that ALL Amateur stations must have a control operator, and there are no exceptions for APRS.
 
 
*** Non-Public: For Internal Use Only ***

-----Original Message-----
From: KG4RUL - Dennis Zabawa [mailto:kg4rul@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 8:22 AM
To: Riley Hollingsworth
Subject: Control Operator Question


The following thread, from the eHam website, brings up some interesting points regarding 'Control Operators' and APRS operations.  Could you comment?
 
http://www.eham.net/forums/APRS/978
 
Dennis Zabawa  KG4RUL
Webmaster, Linear Lines Editor, Public Information Officer
Trident Amateur Radio Club (TARC)
Charleston, SC
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2005, 08:40:22 AM »

The text of Riley Hollingsworth's E-Mail:

===============

All I can say is that ALL Amateur stations must have a control operator, and there are no exceptions for APRS.
 
 
*** Non-Public: For Internal Use Only ***

-----Original Message-----
From: KG4RUL - Dennis Zabawa [mailto:kg4rul@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 8:22 AM
To: Riley Hollingsworth
Subject: Control Operator Question


The following thread, from the eHam website, brings up some interesting points regarding 'Control Operators' and APRS operations.  Could you comment?
 
http://www.eham.net/forums/APRS/978
 
Dennis Zabawa  KG4RUL
Webmaster, Linear Lines Editor, Public Information Officer
Trident Amateur Radio Club (TARC)
Charleston, SC
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N3ZKP
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Posts: 2008




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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2005, 08:55:53 AM »

(1) I vote for the GPS unit.

(2) teach your wife to read a map!!! If you can do it, so can she. Smiley

Lon
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AA4PB
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2005, 10:22:05 AM »

All I can say is that ALL Amateur stations must have a control operator, and there are no exceptions for APRS
------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't that make all the fully automatic packet forwarding stations illegal? Doesn't it make all the packet radio network nodes illegal unless they have a remote control link and a control operator monitoring? Why do the rules specify a class of digital stations as under automatic control if there must be a control operator present or connected via a remote control link?
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AA4PB
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2005, 10:28:41 AM »

Come to think about it, how about the start of APRS where the APRS beacon was placed in the helmet of the runner carrying the ball to Anapolis? Unless the runner was a licensed ham that would have been illegal as well.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2005, 10:46:44 AM »

97.109(d) When a station is being automatically controlled, the control operator need not be at the control point. Only stations specifically designated elsewhere in this Part may be automatically controlled.

97.221(b) A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on the 6 m or shorter wavelength bands

Although every station must have a control operator, this sure sounds to me like in certain cases the control operator does *not* need to be physically present at a control point. Since APRS is packet radio, a data emission, it seems to fit 97.221(b) when it is operated on the 6M or above bands.
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 11:56:49 AM »

Doesn't that make all the fully automatic packet forwarding stations illegal?

-----

 You will note that Riley's response indicated that every station must have a control operator and APRS was no exception to this rule. However, the response did not state anything about acceptable or unacceptable means or methods of control used for any particular station or mode.

 I think the context in which Riley's response is intended means that any station that sends a transmission on ham radio frequencies requires a licensed individual who is ultimatly responsible and accountable for the operation of the equipment in question.

In other words, all ham radio equipment requires a licensed control operator in order for it to legally operate using any mode, on any ham radio frequency.

73 Charles - KC8VWM
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