eHam

eHam Forums => Mobile Ham => Topic started by: KB4OIF on October 07, 2017, 05:07:04 AM



Title: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 07, 2017, 05:07:04 AM
Just  purchased a Yeasu 891.  would like suggestions on small HF antennas for the RAV 4.  No holes will be done.  Only has 2500 miles on it.  Looking at the baby tarheel and the opek line so far.  Trying to get something that does not require a lot of fuss and bother.  Don't want to break the bank but want a good small antenna.  Need suggestions of mounting areas on the SUV.  mag mount on the roof or on the liftgate.  If I want to use it in the house, what auto tuner do you suggest?   At present I have a 6-80 OCF dipole and will be putting up a 31 ft vertical soon as Nate get done drowning us here in NW Florida.


KB4OIF
John


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 07, 2017, 05:59:13 AM
Just  purchased a Yeasu 891.  would like suggestions on small HF antennas for the RAV 4.  No holes will be done.  Only has 2500 miles on it.  Looking at the baby tarheel and the opek line so far.  Trying to get something that does not require a lot of fuss and bother.  Don't want to break the bank but want a good small antenna.  Need suggestions of mounting areas on the SUV.  mag mount on the roof or on the liftgate.  If I want to use it in the house, what auto tuner do you suggest?   At present I have a 6-80 OCF dipole and will be putting up a 31 ft vertical soon as Nate get done drowning us here in NW Florida.


KB4OIF
John

I will be watching this thread with interest.  I have the same rig, and possible ambitions for mobile with it.  I use it portable now.  I use the LDG z11proII for a tuner portable. The tuner runs off of internal batteries (last about a year). and seems to work very well with the 891.  There is no communication cable, I just feed it a low power AM signal (5 watts), and it either tunes in a fraction of a second (if I have been on that antenna and frequency before) or a maximum of about 5 seconds if it has not.  Then switch to SSB or CW at full power.  It all takes less time that to talk about it.  The tuner will get you to 1 to 1 on all bands on that OCFD. I have one of those too.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K7RBW on October 08, 2017, 07:07:58 AM
On my 2010 RAV 4, I put a 3/8" mount on the luggage rack using a CB antenna "mirror mount" and some longer-than-normal screws. It has held a CB whip on several cross-country trips without problem, so far. For a large HF antenna, I would want something firmly mounted to the car or luggage rack.

I've also tried these without success:

A mag mount with an HF antenna won't stay on for long at highway speeds and needs to be grounded to the car body to prevent the coax from acting like an antenna. OK for operating while parked, if you ground it with a separate ground wire.

Trunk lip mounts work OK for lighter antennas, but after seeing the body after using one with a VHF antenna, I'd be worried about body damage from driving around with a heavier antenna.

I've seen some hams mount an SO239 mount to their car to use as in mounting an antenna or as a coax feed for a dipole when sitting still.  Same problems as with other trunk-lip mounts, but the ease of swapping antennas out reduces the likelihood of having them.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 09, 2017, 02:56:03 AM
From what I have read and researched, the little tarheel II would work in my case.   Mount it so the whip is above the roof and the fat part is out of the wind below the level of the roof.  I don't drive fast, 60-65 at most on the expressways.  I think I will go with the K400 mount, Heavy duty, as I don't want to damage the new SUV.  I did bite the bullet on the tuner.  I got the FC-50.  Very pricey, but after reading a lot about what the others do and don't do, I opted to get the FC-50.  Will use the 891 at the house so I can get use to it before my trip in Nov. 

KB4OIF
John 


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: ND6M on October 09, 2017, 07:15:02 AM
I have been watching this thread, the question that comes to my mind is,............... WHY do you need a ""tuner" when using a tunable antenna?


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 09, 2017, 07:46:15 AM
I have been watching this thread, the question that comes to my mind is,............... WHY do you need a ""tuner" when using a tunable antenna?

I think he wanted a tuner for use at home.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 10, 2017, 02:39:28 AM
ND6M.  You bring up a point that I am confused about.  I admit I have not read the manual very much on the radio.  I am working on that.  OK.  With the little tarheel 2 on the SUV.  Can I check the SWR at the radio and use the controller to move the antenna up or down to adjust the SWR.  There is a spot on the display that shows the SWR. So with that said , I would not need a tuner in the SUV.  I hope I have not confused you, but I think I am a little confused.  Age here is 71, so my brain cells have been overloaded and overused for a long time.  Sometimes it leaks out.  Hi HI. 
K0UA.  Yes.  I will need the tuner to use on the base.  I canceled the order for the FC-50 as it will only tune 3 to 1 and cost twice as much.  I went with the Z100Plus.  I finally was able to talk to the folks at LDG and got the correct info.

John


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 10, 2017, 06:44:05 AM
Quote
  I canceled the order for the FC-50 as it will only tune 3 to 1 and cost twice as much.  I went with the Z100Plus.  I finally was able to talk to the folks at LDG and got the correct info.

A good move in my opinion..


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K3LI on October 15, 2017, 05:16:38 PM
ATAS 120 will work very well with the 891 and will mount on a lip mount.   I have no problems with mine in over 2 years on the car.   Sig reports are always good.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: ND6M on October 16, 2017, 07:48:44 AM
ND6M.  You bring up a point that I am confused about...with the little tarheel 2 on the SUV.  Can I check the SWR at the radio and use the controller to move the antenna up or down to adjust the SWR.  There is a spot on the display that shows the SWR. So with that said , I would not need a tuner in the SUV...
John

That is correct John, just extend/retract the Tarhill  and then monitor the SWR reading on the radio.

In fact, you can get VERY close to the correct setting by just listening to the signal change as you adjust the antenna.

Also , use a low power setting and do not tune the antenna while Txing, the coils and the fingers in the Tarheel may arc.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: M0GVZ on October 18, 2017, 06:58:26 AM
ATAS 120 will work very well with the 891 and will mount on a lip mount.   I have no problems with mine in over 2 years on the car.   Sig reports are always good.

The ATAS is a poor antenna, have you ever seen Yaesu's cut away model? The coil is weedy, the whip is short, it needs additional interfaces to work with non-Yaesu radios. Nothing about that antenna is good other than the convenience. Change the stock 32" whip on a LT2 for a 6ft one and you get a 6dB increase. You can't do that on the ATAS120 because it isn't mechanically strong enough.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KJ6VQR on October 19, 2017, 12:00:36 AM
I too bought an 891 and an ATAS 120. Simple to setup and super easy to use.
After 2 days out in the wild of the 405, the ATAS died in the full salute position. I took it back to HRO and they set me up with a Lil Tarheel 2, 56" whip, Breedlove mounting plate and a Tunematic lite. I have made a ton of contacts. It seems like a better antenna RF-wise than the ATAS (not to speak ill of the deceased, but..). And, it is still working after a whole month!

If I were you I'd look at the Tarheel & Scorpion stuff. Either way you should read www.k0bg.com site. I spent a whole day and a half grounding, grounding, grounding and choking lines in my truck.

As far as a tuning on the road, I bet if you set the antenna using the manual switch (like the tarheel comes with) and listen to your audio you will get close. Then just monitor the SWR on FM and key (mike) down on and off to fine tune. Just bump the antenna up or down (mike off) and then key down to see if the SWR improved or degraded.

Good luck and let us know how it workes out


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 19, 2017, 10:47:40 AM
I will probably go with the baby tarheel.  Looking for a place to ground the antenna.  I purchased a MFJ 2340T antenna a while back and I may try that before I spend the big bucks.  I have a road trip coming up in 3 weeks and will try it out then. 


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: M0GVZ on October 20, 2017, 07:49:19 AM
I will probably go with the baby tarheel.  Looking for a place to ground the antenna. 

At the mount where the coax braid ends. If you are willing to drill holes you won't do any better than a Breedlove mount.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 22, 2017, 02:34:13 AM
No Holes.  Vehicle only has 2900 miles on it. Hasn't had it's first oil change yet. 3-4 years from now maybe. 


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K5LXP on October 22, 2017, 03:34:58 PM
Nothing about that antenna is good other than the convenience.

That's not true.  There are at least 2 things the ATAS is good for.  One is collecting rainwater, the other is establishing the lowest point screwdriver antenna performance is measured.

 ::)

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KENNETH on October 27, 2017, 08:11:50 AM
....FC-50 as it will only tune 3 to 1 and cost twice as much.  I went with the Z100Plus.....

Wow the FT-50 is only 3 to 1 for $300 bucks. The z100plus is 10 to 1. MFJ-939 is 32 to 1. Plenty of folks on youtube running the mfj-939/891 combo so i'd go with that.

So what is your tuning procedure for the z100 / 891 combo? Since its heavily menu driven, do you have to go in the menu, lower the power, change mode to cw or rtty, press z100 tune, then go back in the menu to change it all back to 100 watts ssb? Or with this combo do you simply press tune on the 891 face and it does it automatically? I see the LDG tuner cable is just a simple phono plug. Thanks in advance.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 27, 2017, 09:16:28 AM
No Holes.  Vehicle only has 2900 miles on it. Hasn't had it's first oil change yet. 3-4 years from now maybe. 

I just got done punching a nice 3/4 inch hole in the wife's Chrysler for a NMO mount..  Drill baby drill.  Center punch it first and don't look back.  Gawd, I love drilling holes in automobiles in the morning......it feels like "Victory".    ;D


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 27, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
....FC-50 as it will only tune 3 to 1 and cost twice as much.  I went with the Z100Plus.....

Wow the FT-50 is only 3 to 1 for $300 bucks. The z100plus is 10 to 1. MFJ-939 is 32 to 1. Plenty of folks on youtube running the mfj-939/891 combo so i'd go with that.

So what is your tuning procedure for the z100 / 891 combo? Since its heavily menu driven, do you have to go in the menu, lower the power, change mode to cw or rtty, press z100 tune, then go back in the menu to change it all back to 100 watts ssb? Or with this combo do you simply press tune on the 891 face and it does it automatically? I see the LDG tuner cable is just a simple phono plug. Thanks in advance.

I don't know about one interfaced with a cable, but at worst with no communication from rig to tuner.  Just go into the menu one time and set your AM power at 5 watts. Done.  Now when you want to tune, press and hold the band button which will take you to mode. spin the VFO knob to go to AM, wait 3 seconds then key down with 5 watts of AM.  When done tuning, press and hold the band button again, spin the VFO to SSB, wait 3 seconds and start talking.  It takes more time to type this by far than it does to do it.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KENNETH on October 27, 2017, 09:35:50 AM
K0UA, what antenna tuner are you talking about with (i assume) your FT-891?


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 27, 2017, 12:11:09 PM
K0UA, what antenna tuner are you talking about with (i assume) your FT-891?

I use the little LDG Z11pro2

Here is what I like about it.  it is small, lightweight,uses no power after it is tuned, so it runs off of an internal battery pack of AAA batteries that last about a year in average use.  It is rated for 125 watts SSB and CW but wont run that on digital if the match is severe.  They rate it no more than 30.  I have run it at 100 on digital, but make sure the SWR is not really that far off.  It can get hot in a hurry if it is. It does not require any cable other than coax and works with any brand of radio. Just give it a little RF and it takes off and tunes, and remembers your particular frequency and antenna so it instantly tunes next time.

 Some people consider them unreliable and badmouth them. But I have used the heck out of mine and it still works great.  I did do one thing since I use the internal batteries, and that was to install a power switch on the back to disconnect the battery pack.

  Because once in a great while the unit will become confused when you try to tune an extremely bad load.  Like for instance your 6 meter vertical antenna on 40 meters.  Yeah, I have done some boneheaded moves like that a couple of times. What happens the tuner will "hang" and requires a reboot.  Unless you are powering it from the rear power connector, you have to take out the 4 screws to get inside to disconnect the battery connector.  So I installed a series switch so I could disconnect the batteries so it would reboot.  If you power it from the rear power connector of course just pull the plug and plug it back in.

Overall I am very pleased with the little unit

http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/21/9/1


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K7RBW on October 28, 2017, 04:52:44 AM
My luck with the LDG tuner sounds like that of KU0A. I've had it for more than five years, now. 95% of the time, it works flawlessly. The other 5% is usually due to my trying to get it to do something impossible, like trying to tune a short wire on 160m with an SSB signal. Sometimes it'll pick up some stray RF, when the UHF antenna is too close, but overall, it's a solid unit.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 28, 2017, 08:20:00 AM
Here is a thread over on another forum that about midway through, it details my addition of the switch on the back panel with some good photos.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/375802-9-1-unun-random-wire.html?highlight=tuner


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: N8AUC on October 28, 2017, 10:06:01 AM
No Holes.  Vehicle only has 2900 miles on it. Hasn't had it's first oil change yet. 3-4 years from now maybe.  

I just got done punching a nice 3/4 inch hole in the wife's Chrysler for a NMO mount..  Drill baby drill.  Center punch it first and don't look back.  Gawd, I love drilling holes in automobiles in the morning......it feels like "Victory".    ;D

Totally agree.
A car isn't mine until it has an NMO mount drilled into the center of the roof,
and it has my call sign license plates on it. Within 2 weeks of purchase,
(sooner if I can do it) that car gets a date at commercial 2-way radio shop
to have the NMO mount installed properly.

I hesitated drilling holes for many years. Worried about resale value, etc.
I used mag mounts, through the glass antennas, etc. They worked OK.

But once I drilled that first one, I was sold. Why did I hesitate so long?
It's a cleaner install, less interior clutter, lower noise floor, just works
better all around. And at trade in time, I've never had a dealer think
twice about that little nub in the center of the roof. (NMO mount with
a screw on rain cap) I friend of mine did once, and when asked what
it was, he told them it was a mount for an outside cell phone antenna.
Dealer gave him an extra $50 on the trade for a cellular mount.

One caveat. I only do VHF/UHF mobile, because I think an HF rig in the
car is too much of a distraction while driving. So I can't give advice for
running HF mobile.

Have fun!

73 de N8AUC
Eric


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 28, 2017, 12:50:39 PM
By the way, when I drill those big beautiful holes in automobiles, I always put a magnet in a ziplock bag and put it next to the intended hole to soak up the metal shavings, and you can also dip it into the hole  to suck out the metal shavings too.  The reason for cleaning up the metal is so they do not stay there and rust or get into crevices or mouldings and rust. The significance of the bag is so when you take the bag to the trash can, carefully open the ziplock, and reach in with one hand and grab the magnet, and then reverse pull the bag and the shavings off into the trash can.  That way the shavings don't contaminate the magnet. You wind up with a clean magnet for use next time.

Make sure you are using a sharp pilot bit in your holesaw as you don't want it to skate on your center punched spot.  That ain't good if it skates beyond what your NMO mount will cover.  Enjoy that crunch of breaking through your sheetmetal, knowing you will have a very superior mount.  If you significant other comes out and screams you can enjoy that too!   :)

 That reminds me: When asked what is best in life, Conan the Barbarian said. "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women"

Conan didn't mention drilling holes in shiney sheet metal, but it ranks right up there.  :)


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KENNETH on October 29, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
Appreciate all your info and link k0ua  :) looks like a great setup.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 29, 2017, 07:13:30 PM
Quote
I friend of mine did once, and when asked what
it was, he told them it was a mount for an outside cell phone antenna.
Dealer gave him an extra $50 on the trade for a cellular mount.

Now that is funny!, I don't care who you are... :)


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KB4OIF on October 30, 2017, 05:28:42 AM
K0UA, what antenna tuner are you talking about with (i assume) your FT-891?

I use the little LDG Z11pro2

Here is what I like about it.  it is small, lightweight,uses no power after it is tuned, so it runs off of an internal battery pack of AAA batteries that last about a year in average use.  It is rated for 125 watts SSB and CW but wont run that on digital if the match is severe.  They rate it no more than 30.  I have run it at 100 on digital, but make sure the SWR is not really that far off.  It can get hot in a hurry if it is. It does not require any cable other than coax and works with any brand of radio. Just give it a little RF and it takes off and tunes, and remembers your particular frequency and antenna so it instantly tunes next time.

 Some people consider them unreliable and badmouth them. But I have used the heck out of mine and it still works great.  I did do one thing since I use the internal batteries, and that was to install a power switch on the back to disconnect the battery pack.

  Because once in a great while the unit will become confused when you try to tune an extremely bad load.  Like for instance your 6 meter vertical antenna on 40 meters.  Yeah, I have done some boneheaded moves like that a couple of times. What happens the tuner will "hang" and requires a reboot.  Unless you are powering it from the rear power connector, you have to take out the 4 screws to get inside to disconnect the battery connector.  So I installed a series switch so I could disconnect the batteries so it would reboot.  If you power it from the rear power connector of course just pull the plug and plug it back in.

Overall I am very pleased with the little unit

http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/21/9/1


OK.  I am confused a little bit.  Not surprised at age 71.  In my nifty manual for the 891 it goes thru the procedure.  Press F-1 to go to that screen rotate the multi knob to point to tuner.  Press the multi knob for 1 second to start the tuning process. It does not start.  Now for the instructions from the Z-100+.   I am using a Z-100 plus LDG tuner.  Select AM,FM, CW and key the transmitter. Push and hold the tune button for 1 second and release.  I have been using this method to tune the antenna.  

Here is my question.  Do I turn back the power to 10-20 watts before I do that or just use the default (100 watts).  The radio and the tuner are connected with the proper cable.  On my other rigs, it automatically cuts it back to 10 watts.  

KB4OIF
John


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: G8YMW on October 30, 2017, 06:16:05 AM
K0UA, what antenna tuner are you talking about with (i assume) your FT-891?

I use the little LDG Z11pro2

Here is what I like about it.  it is small, lightweight,uses no power after it is tuned, so it runs off of an internal battery pack of AAA batteries that last about a year in average use.  It is rated for 125 watts SSB and CW but wont run that on digital if the match is severe.  They rate it no more than 30.  I have run it at 100 on digital, but make sure the SWR is not really that far off.  It can get hot in a hurry if it is. It does not require any cable other than coax and works with any brand of radio. Just give it a little RF and it takes off and tunes, and remembers your particular frequency and antenna so it instantly tunes next time.

 Some people consider them unreliable and badmouth them. But I have used the heck out of mine and it still works great.  I did do one thing since I use the internal batteries, and that was to install a power switch on the back to disconnect the battery pack.

  Because once in a great while the unit will become confused when you try to tune an extremely bad load.  Like for instance your 6 meter vertical antenna on 40 meters.  Yeah, I have done some boneheaded moves like that a couple of times. What happens the tuner will "hang" and requires a reboot.  Unless you are powering it from the rear power connector, you have to take out the 4 screws to get inside to disconnect the battery connector.  So I installed a series switch so I could disconnect the batteries so it would reboot.  If you power it from the rear power connector of course just pull the plug and plug it back in.

Overall I am very pleased with the little unit

http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/21/9/1


OK.  I am confused a little bit.  Not surprised at age 71.  In my nifty manual for the 891 it goes thru the procedure.  Press F-1 to go to that screen rotate the multi knob to point to tuner.  Press the multi knob for 1 second to start the tuning process. It does not start.  Now for the instructions from the Z-100+.   I am using a Z-100 plus LDG tuner.  Select AM,FM, CW and key the transmitter. Push and hold the tune button for 1 second and release.  I have been using this method to tune the antenna.  

Here is my question.  Do I turn back the power to 10-20 watts before I do that or just use the default (100 watts).  The radio and the tuner are connected with the proper cable.  On my other rigs, it automatically cuts it back to 10 watts.  

KB4OIF
John

Wind the power down, better safe than sorry.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on October 30, 2017, 09:33:51 AM
I always tune My z11pro2 with just 5 watts. On the ft891 I have the AM power set to 5 watts.  I don't use AM for anything anyway, and I don't mind limiting its output power to the 5 watts in the menu setting.  And of course If I wanted to run it back up, it is just a menu change away. 
So I just go into the mode change by pressing and holding the band button on the 891 and spin the vfo to AM and let it go into AM mode, then just key up, and the autotuner automatically goes into tune.  If it is on a remembered antenna and frequency it tunes instantly. If it is new to the tuner then it can take up to about 5 seconds or so. 

I figure it is easier on the tuner and its relays to tune with lower power rather than switching contacts at full power. 

Once it is tuned, then go back to SSB or CW and you will be at full power.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KC4ZGP on October 30, 2017, 11:49:42 AM

There he goes again. K0UA bragging up his FT-891. I never do that with my top of the line Alinco SR-8T.

Kraus


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: KC4ZGP on October 31, 2017, 09:20:57 AM

Say K0UA. KC4ZGP here.

May I ask which band, mode and antenna do you most often use the FT-891?

The price of one at either DX Engineering or HRO is at $579.00. I'm ready to
buy two.

Kraus



Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: W3TTT on October 31, 2017, 01:48:03 PM
I am reading this thread with mucho interesto.  I also just purchased an FT 891 and want to mount it in "my wife's" Kia Soul.  It is "my wife's" because she drives it.  However, I get the joy of paying for it.
BTW Kia (Korea) Soul (Seoul) get it? 
So, since the car belongs to the XYL, I may not drill holes.  I do have a roof rack where I can mount.  Any advice?
Thanks
W3TTT


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K0UA on November 01, 2017, 08:35:58 AM

Say K0UA. KC4ZGP here.

May I ask which band, mode and antenna do you most often use the FT-891?

The price of one at either DX Engineering or HRO is at $579.00. I'm ready to
buy two.

Kraus



I have used it on all bands 160 thru 6, and all modes except AM which I just use for a small signal to use for energizing and external tuner.


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: AC4RD on November 09, 2017, 09:12:43 AM
all bands 160 thru 6, and all modes except AM which I just use for a small signal to use for energizing and external tuner.

BTW, thank you for the contact in the Sweepstakes a couple of weeks ago.  :-)


Title: RE: New Yeasu 891
Post by: K3LI on November 11, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
Those that say the ATAS 120 is junk have no idea of what they are talking about.   Its a darn good antenna for 857, 817, 891, FT450D in a mobile set up.  I run them exclusively and have no worries.  My sig reports are always very good and I have no problems communicating.

They tune with the internal menu set to ATAS from all of these radios.  No switches, no buttons, no SWR meters, no "listening to the sound to get close", nothing.  Mash the button and it tunes.  If your not versed enough this antenna, then you have no idea how well it really works.  I dumped both tarheels and went to this 2 yrs ago.   A long piece of wire looks like crap, but you can run it as a long wire out of your shack.   How can this be?  It looks like junk.