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eHam Forums => Antenna Restrictions => Topic started by: N3OP on October 07, 2008, 04:35:56 PM



Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N3OP on October 07, 2008, 04:35:56 PM
I recently moved to a house with HOA, and I plan to install a Hustler 6BTV vertical antenna.  Since this antenna is about 22 feet tall, I plan to install it without the 80 meter section to reduce its visibility.  Will this affect the performance on 10-40 meters?


Also, how would the performance of a 6BTV vertical without the 80 meter section compare to a 20 foot wire (14 gauge) vertical antenna connected to a remote autotuner?

 
Thanks,

RC


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: WB2WIK on October 08, 2008, 08:22:23 AM
You can remove the RM80S and whip and still use the antenna on 10-40m.  It will outperform a 20' wire and remote tuner on all bands except 17m and 12m, where the 6BTV has no traps and no resonance.  Either way you need a good radial system to make either one work!

Problem with an unbroken length of wire or tubing or any other radiator is not only matching but radiation angle.  20' is a quarter wave at 11.7 MHz where it would be easy to match and have a very nice pattern.  Too bad there's no ham band there.  The 6BTV has a near optimum radiation angle and a near perfect match to coax on 10-15-20-30-40 meters and the wire+tuner will not work better on those bands, but the wire+tuner will likely work better on 12m and 17m.

Remember the radials!

WB2WIK/6


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N3OP on October 08, 2008, 02:33:04 PM
Steve,

Thanks for the input.  I have installed a radial plate and added 16 25' radials (14 gauge) so far.  This weekend, I plan to add an additional 32 radials to bring the total 48.  I ordered the vertical today, so I should have it on the air by Sunday.

Reggie


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: W7MJM on October 10, 2008, 12:07:30 AM
You can add 12 and 17 meters to the 6BTV very easily. Simply attach to the main vertical, with insulators, a vertical quarter wave of wire for each of those bands. Clamp the bottom end of the wires to the bottom of the main vertical so that they're electrically connected there. If the 6BTV is ground mounted, your radial system will work fine on these additional bands. If the 6BTV is elevated above ground, you'll need to add resonant radials for 12 and 17 meters to serve as a ground plane on those bands.

As for using the 6BTV without the 75/80 meter resonator; that's what I do and it works fine on 10 through 40 (plus 12 and 17 with the aforementioned modification).


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: NK5G on October 12, 2008, 12:29:15 PM
I live in a restricted area as well. What I did was use the tiltover mount from DX Engineering and I keep it lowered unless I am using it.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N5LRZ on October 22, 2008, 06:33:30 PM
Well I have good news, bad news, and possibly good news.

First the good news.  From personal expernience not using the 80 meter coil and whip will definately NOT effect the antenna.  I in pure fact found the 80 meter coil/whip far to restrictive in useable frequency and just removed it finding it to be a waste of money--even the humble inverted V was better.

The bad news, over 20 feet of aluminum shootin strate up in the air, and I take it that you are going to ground mount it to reduce visibility exposure, is definately not going to be invisible.  Anyone walking into your back yard is going to see the antenna as an antenna UNLESS.

And this is where the perhaps good comes in, unless you flag pole the whole antenna by encaseing it in some white PVC as a disguised flagpole antenna.  A compromise definately.

And of course the bad news, you may not even be allowed to put up a flagpole per your HOA.  Meaning that you are left with only small diameter wire draped on oa wooden fence top or some such antenna.  

Over 20 feet of fairly large aluminum tubes with even bigger traps AND a cap hat on the top is definately not going to stealthy.

Suggestion, to end positively rather than on the negative.  Do a survey of your entire lot on paper that is fairly accurate as to proportion.  Note "ANYTHING" natural (a tree) or existing structure (a wooden fence)that you can use as a support structure for a small diameter antenna wire.  

GET CREATIVE is another approach.  POUR THRU all the antenna items on the web to find an antenna so crafty that even you could not spot it.  I found two amazing antennas just looking one night.  One was a 'snake antenna' and the other one was a 'Buried Antenna'  YUP actually BURIED just under the ground.  Each of these was of course definately compromise.  STILL any external antenna is better than a less than 1/8 wave in the attic gathering up electrical noise.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: W6ONV on November 08, 2008, 08:44:09 AM
After getting approval from the HOA management and the board of directors I erected my 6BTV with the 75/80 in order to keep the overall height lower when I presented it to the board. A few weeks after that I cut the whip and installed it. It is difficult to see in the background when passing the back of the house. Up until the time I did that addition, I had no problems operating on 10-40.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: KL7IPV on January 29, 2009, 04:02:35 PM
You can use an acrylic paint on the antenna to match the background and that will make it harder to be seen by any one on any side of your property. It is even better if you have a tree nearby that you can color match. It becomes nearly invisible then. Good luck.
Frank


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: AE5KA on February 02, 2009, 08:27:53 PM
Painting your vertical in a camo or zebra pattern may break up the silhouette enought to make it difficult to spot from off your property. Anyone ever try this?


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N5LRZ on February 26, 2009, 01:40:49 AM
Think on this for a while...

HOA Nazi Inspection team knocks on your door demanding to inspect your property for an illegal external antenna.

IF they walk anywhere on the property outside your house WILL THEY SEE YOUR 20 something feet of half inch aluminum tubes?

HOA Nazi inspection teams are not morons.  They know and antenna when they see one sitting 'Illegal' in the back yard.  And forget flag poles its far far too common of a trick, old as dirt.

BE CREATIVE, think out the box.  What you are looking for is an antenna that the HOA Nazi's can be standing 5 feet away from it and looking directly at it and STILL not see it.

When you have done this you have found your antenna.  Research Research Research.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: KL7IPV on March 24, 2009, 08:31:20 PM
I don't know how you can be forced to allow ANYONE into your house or yard if they don't come armed with a search warrant. Even the police need one. A "Covenant cop" has no power beyond the front of the house UNLESS they can produce a warrant to look based on a specific charge. If they can't see into my back yard from the front they are not allowed there. And they have to be able to see there from OFF your property!  The HOA even tells me that.
Frank


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: W6ONV on March 29, 2009, 07:12:35 AM
Work WITH the HOA, some times that is better than trying to hide your antenna. I did have one board member bring up the antenna in the backyard, but the other members said it could not be seen from the front yard, which pleased the board. I did a lot of research prior to erecting the 6BTV, before and after I tried the flagpole idea.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N5LRZ on April 27, 2009, 01:53:48 PM
Re IPV...

IF as part of your purchase agreement that one signs you give certain parties stated in the purchase agreement contract the RIGHT TO INSPECT, kind of like the right you give utility company employees to cross your land when you sign the utility agreement, then YES you have contractually signed away your right of search warrant.

In contracts there is no such thing as tap backs.  ONCE SIGNED you agree to every damn thing in the contract that is legal under the law, INCLUDING the fine print.



Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: N5LRZ on April 27, 2009, 02:04:54 PM
ONV...

WELL that depends on how well you hide your antenna does it not?  

I know of at least 4 different configurations that virtually every single family dwelling home owner has which when installed the inspection can stand 5 feet away and they will NEVER see the antenna at all.

NOW granted you are definately going to have to use a tuner.  And granted you are definately going to have to completely forget working certain HF bands--160 or possibly 80 meters.  STILL you can work most of the bands with a good tuner.

And would it not also in addition depend on the mode you use.  For example CW and voice is a dead give-a-way because people can tell code and voice patters.  BUT they do not in general know what PSK or RTTY or OLIVIA sound like.  And if you put your ID in your picture and turn off the CW ID then you can use SSTV modes.

So IF you use only digital and or image modes, make your antenna a virtual invisible antenna and never tell any neighbor you are a ham (do not EVEN try to recruit them into amateur) you can pull it off.

Hell you can even have an external 2 meter vertical antenna by putting in one of those metal extenders for the venting of the plumbing making sure that the length of the venting is a full quarter wave for 2 meters--feed the vent pipe via a bolt and nut thru the vent and the roof taking care to properly seal the bolt head of course.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: WB4BYQ on May 14, 2009, 12:47:42 PM
I tuned by Butternut hf6v and then painted it black,
you can not realy see the antenna with the trees in the
back yard.


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: W6ONV on May 17, 2009, 11:26:25 AM
Sure if you can erect a vertical or some other antenna (wire) and make it nearly invisible on your property, more power to you. Really, I would be trying the same exact thing IF the HOA denied my petition and request to gain an exemption from the CC&Rs. Thankfully I didn't have to go that route. I will consider myself one of the few lucky ones.

73, ONV
Steve


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: KL7IPV on May 20, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
LRZ,
  NO ONE has the right to enter my property to inspect anything. Even when a complaint is made about the back yard of a neighbor's property, THEY cannot go look unless it can be seen from the street OFF the property in question. THAT is what the HOA has told me and they live by that. I have an InvVee under the eaves of my house and it is full wave on 40. With a tuner I use it on all bands that I want. I also have a Slinky for 80 meters stretched across my attic that with a tuner works them all as well. So far, so good. :)
Frank


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: K0AWD on May 20, 2009, 04:46:32 PM
 I use the 6BTV with the 75/80 resonator. It's set up in my FRONT YARD, defiantly standing tall and proud. There are "some" restrictions here, but apparently not affecting my antenna. One distant neighbor attempted to cause trouble about the installation but his attempts failed. The city came out and did an inspection (from the street) until I invited them on to the property. Seems they were only concerned about it complying with FCC regs and not falling "off my property". I have three other antennas attached to the side of the house that no one ever notices. Even the inspectors didn't see them and they stand at 40+ft and 35+ft respectively. Oh did I mention that most people walking and driving down the street (a main thorough fair) never even notice the 6BTV?
 Good luck with yours and don't forget the radials, radials, radials.
  73, k0awd


Title: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: W5DQ on May 20, 2009, 05:19:31 PM
No NAZI of any kind, HOA or otherwise, is crossing my threshold UNINVITED (and that's highly unlikely to happen) lest they want to have intense and serious conversation with my two best friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson. I feel sorry for any ham forced to have to buy into that socialistic crap called a HOA just to get a decent place to live. Living there then becoming a ham is one thing but having to 'voluntarily' choose to accept it is totally unacceptable in my book.

I live on property that doesn't have any restrictions of any kind towards antennas, well except the one placed by the FCC due to my location to a runway approach. But even then, I highly doubt I would ever erect any tower that comes close to those height limitations. My neighbors know what they are for and have never ever said a single word negatively about them. But I don't care if they did because I was there first and the towers were up when they moved in.

Anyway, I digress. One thing I did in college living upstairs in an apartment and having an outside antenna mount (not supposed to but no one ever complained as far as I knew) was to paint the structure a light blue to match the sky so that whenever anyone looked up at the structure it blended in quite nicely. In fact, a few time when I happen to glance up when arriving home, I was a bit shocked thinking the antenna was gone. I have seen other verticals painted to match the background scheme and if done correctly, one has to stop and try to see the antenna to notice it. Now interference caused from operating is a total different subject and you have to follow the rules there.

Good Luck to all HOA oppressed hams in your antenna adventures. Remember too, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar so if you have to kiss a few hiney's to get your antenna approved, so be it.

Gene W5DQ


Title: RE: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: 2E0SFX on February 15, 2010, 03:52:58 PM
Hi reference the question on spraying with acrylic paint, i did, my background was a big evergreen tree and the antenna stuck out like a sore thumb, sprayed dark/heavy in some and lighter areas in other parts with dark olive spray paint, it literally dissapeared
Happy Wife Neighbours and none of them have seen the wire yet.
Damian


Title: RE: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: KG7MCH on February 17, 2010, 08:13:39 PM
I am currently using the hustler antenna at my house.  It is covered with PVC pipe, I painted it white, purchased the flagpole truck and ball from the internet and proudly flag the American flag as I talk.

I need to run a few more ground wires, but I can work special event stations or nets without too much trouble.  My neighbors seem to enjoy the flag waving in the breeze as well.

Penny
KG7MCH


Title: RE: Hustler 6BTV Without 80 meters
Post by: K4IQT on February 18, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
We've got a CCR with enforcer-style suspicious neighbors at this QTH, so there is no plea bargaining with an HOA but stealth is still necessary.

This month's QST has an article about using a stealthy trap vertical mounted inverted-ell style to fit the building.  Since I've got no large trees for a disguise and I've got a deck in the back yard with a nine-foot rail height at one end, I'll be ground-mounting my old 6BTV at that corner of the deck with the upper portion of the antenna mounted horizontally on the house side of the deck railing.  There is plenty of room for 33' radials except on the house side where they will be a bit shorter.

This should be practically "invisible" and won't require any extra camouflage, hinged base, flagpole disguise, etc., and should be an ok radiator.  I can then tune my 8' high invisible "fence loop" to handle 12 and 17 meters as well as 160.

All this is contingent on the return of spring (someday). My MP-1 will continue to sort-of-work until then, and I hate antenna work in the snow!

Terry, K4IQT