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eHam Forums => Emergency Communications => Topic started by: N8JGU on May 02, 2007, 01:25:25 PM



Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: N8JGU on May 02, 2007, 01:25:25 PM
So the grid fails nation wide.  Were on our own.  Where do we meet?  What mode of operation?  Where do we listen?  In the wonderful world of ham radio.  Is there a norm?  OK CB radio established CH-9.  It is assumed FRS is default CH1.  Marine is CH16.  Air is oh I can't remember.  But the point is, I am a Amatuer Operator, my radios are ready to go.  I am portable from 1mhz to 440mhz.  Im battery, solar, generator powered.  But where do we meet?  FREQUENCY, MODE, operation.  National wide is there a norm? If not, then welcome to chaos.


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: AA4PB on May 02, 2007, 03:41:58 PM
Emergency comms is primarily handled on a local county and/or state basis. Your local ARES group should have frequencies on 2M, 75M, and probably a backup for 75M on 40M.


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KG4RUL on May 02, 2007, 05:30:11 PM
Our County ARES group has a dedicated, unlinked repeater available 147.150+ No PL.  Neighboring counties have a linked repeater system available http://home.comcast.net/~dzabawa/repeater_map.gif.  HF to the State EOC is on a standard frequency.  

All of our shelter radios are setup like Public Service radios with standardized frequencies.  http://home.comcast.net/~dzabawa/radiofreqs.htm and we encourage all members to setup their personal radios in a similar fashion.

Dennis KG4RUL
Berkeley County South Carolina ARES, Information Officer  


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: K9KJM on May 02, 2007, 11:21:14 PM
Yep, contact your county E.C. to find out what the local frequencies are.   Usually two meters for county wide nets, And HF (Usually 75 meters) for State wide nets.
(Most areas have "back up" simplex frequencies to go to if the county repeater(s) should fail. Around here we just use 146.52 simplex, As this is a mostly rural area with not that much VHF activity)


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KE4SKY on May 03, 2007, 05:19:18 AM
The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared. While it is true that amateur radio is a hobby, providing EmCom is a commitment. If you are not adequately trained, equipped and prepared, you cannot do your job competently or safely.

All amateurs who intend to assist with EmCom should affiliate with others in their communities.  They must become part of the organized response, and follow the established emergency communications plan developed by public safety officials and coordinating non-governmental organizations.  

There is no room in EmCom for unaffiliated, untrained, but perhaps well intentioned amateurs who would self-dispatch and freelance on their own, thinking they are going single-handedly to save the world with their radio.    

If you want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem you join a group, train to its standards and actively participate. You must learn, practice and refresh skills which may have become rusty from lack of use. Just because you may have been a ham for years doesn't mean that you are ready to provide EmCom anytime, anywhere.

There are lots of free training resources available to learn.  I would first recommend contacting the volunteer coordinator of your local office of emergency management and inquire what existing volunteer programs use amateur radio communications.  Examples would be Auxiliary Communications Service or RACES, Community Emergency Response Teams (CERT), Medical Reserve Corps, Neighborhood Watch, etc.  Then you can join a group which fits into your interests, knowledge, skills and abilities.  There is something that everyone can do.  



Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: K2GW on May 03, 2007, 06:03:23 AM
There is no standard nationwide frequency, because of the bedlam that would result if everyone tried to operate on one frequency.  

Local operations are on specific VHF/UHF repeaters or simplex frequencies that are coordinated to prevent interference with simultaneous operations in adjacent counties.  HF frequencies are used to tie designated rpesentatives of these local operations together for coordination.  

I would strongly suggest that you go to www.arrl.org and look up your Section Emergency Coordinator and ask him/her who your local county Emergency Coordinator is.  That person can give you the details on the plans for your area.

Also, get a copy of The ARRL Emergency Communication Handbook from www.arrl.org.  It explains how all of this works.

73

Gary, K2GW


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: K2GW on May 04, 2007, 06:19:05 AM
One further thought, since we actually had a bunch of issues jumbled together.

>>CB radio established CH-9. It is assumed FRS is default CH1. Marine is CH16. Air is oh I cant remember.

Civil Air distress is actually 121.5 MHz.  But those are all distress and calling frequnecies, not emergency response frequencies.  For example, on the VHF Marine Band the subsequent response is usually on Channel 22 and resulting Air SAR operations are on 123.1 MHz

While there is no specific Amateur Radio distress and calling frequency, if you personally are in distress and can't use a cell phone or know the local EmComm repeater, 146.52 MHz, 14.300 MHz or 7.255 MHz are probably pretty good bets to use as distress calling frequencies. The latter two have longstanding amateur HF nets for providing assistance to mobile hams.

73

Gary, K2GW



Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KC5SAS on May 04, 2007, 06:36:03 AM
Regarding what KE5SKY posted....
I agree completely.  

Steve, KC5SAS
ACS/RACES Officer
Iberville Parish, Louisiana


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: W5JUV on May 05, 2007, 07:34:36 AM
You moron.  You would need to go to the looney tune hospital because we don't want you even trying to help out.


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KG4RUL on May 05, 2007, 10:19:18 AM
W5JUV - Hmm, does the JUV stand for JUVenile?


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: N8JGU on May 07, 2007, 11:46:23 AM
We don't need comments that are offending.  I was looking how to be involved.  You are not what I would be involved with...


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: N4CDB on May 07, 2007, 01:38:59 PM
Well, I don't understand some of the responses here. I don't see that SKY pointing out "that you are uninformed and unprepared" does anything to help. Come on guys. The OP is trying to become informed and you're ripping him apart. With responses like what I've seen here I'd be inclined to share some choice words.

This sounds just like a question I got from a new ARES member. He and his wife have apparently been trying for a while to get connected but people just give useless advice like "get training". Where? What kind? Within the span of a short phone call he knew what frequencies to tune into and what he'd need for shelter work. Sure there is a lot to learn like net procedures, handling message traffic, etc. but shouldn't we be helping people in that regard instead of giving them a hard time?

As some of the more helpful posters have responded, get plugged in with your local ARES/RACES groups as well as any local radio clubs. If you've got it available, Skywarn is also a good resource. Locally we have primary and secondary repeaters as well as simplex frequencies identified.

On a more personal level, I have a network of friends around the country. We have a set of primary and secondary frequencies as well as a designated time to try and make contacts. We cover several bands to allow for band conditions. If we can't make contact within x minutes we move to the next freq. So far it's working out well. We try to get together every night since it's easier than trying to get everyone on a specific night. If you can make it fine, if not fine.

HTH and good luck getting plugged in.


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KV9U on May 07, 2007, 03:33:54 PM
I concur with the view that you would want to use the "local" and Section frequencies for your area, depending upon how you chose to participate. These are often listed in your Section Emergency Communications Plan.

I would not pay much attention to the insulting comments by some very troubled people on so many of these groups. Even if you are not trained to specific procedures, you can be a help in times of need, contrary to the absurd comments made repeatedly by some.

One of our most active storm spotters, who has been the key communicator with NWS does not even attend training and yet he is the one who shows up more often than the trained spotters.

At one time I would have recommended getting active with the NTS (ARRL National Traffic System) nets, and it can be helpful. But much of the need is for the early tactical communications done primarily by voice. Sending formal message traffic is not done that much anymore. (Although in the past year I did send a Radiogram message to AK from a WI tornado victim, so you never know).

What we need are radio amateurs who are interested in public service and who are willing to participate and learn as they advance their general expertise in communications.


73,

Rick, KV9U


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: KA4GFY on May 08, 2007, 05:39:59 AM
You might also look on the ARRL's web site under nets listing.  They have local, section and regional nets listed showing days, times and frrequencies.  Look for one or two in your local area.  Its a good bet that if something happened in your area one or most of those frequencies would be active.

You can also find out who your local EC is.  He or she can help you get going.

Don't let a couple of people give you the wrong idea about amateur radio operators.  Most are willing to help if you ask.  That attitude gives all of a bad name with the public.

Rich, KA4GFY  


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: ROBERTKN on May 26, 2007, 05:51:13 PM
Well, you know a thread like this illustrates 3 things:

1. There are people out there who are concerned and want to learn and become involved.

2. There are people out there who are already involved and have the proper mindset and personality to make a difference--in a positive way.

3. There are people out there who are already involved and should possibly reevaluate their motives.

KE4SKY: "The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared."

Gee, KE4SKY, what gave you your first clue? I would question your effectiveness in the case of an event because by the time you brought your nose down from the sky the event would likely be over--unless there was a need for a high elevation to mount an antenna.

KC5SAS: "Regarding what KE5SKY posted....I agree completely."

Really, now? That's reassuring considering that there was no KE5SKY who posted in this thread. Maybe you need a little more "practice"? Should there be an incident would you be able to relay a message accurately?

W5JUV: "You moron. You would need to go to the looney tune hospital because we don't want you even trying to help out."

"We"? Be "we" I assume you are representing your ward mates in the "looney tune hospital" because I certainly do not want the likes of you involved with "helping" me or my loved ones. Oh, by the way, I think it's spelled "toon" there genius.


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: N6AJR on June 09, 2007, 03:59:00 PM
Charles ( Doug) would your mother aprove of you talking like that, I find it childish , juvenile, and some what rude. We are here to help folks , not to call names.

as to the original question. check out your local OES, ACS or what ever they call it where you live, the local sherriff department may have  some info. each area does it differently..


Title: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: REMOVED_BY_EHAM_KE4RAZ on June 21, 2007, 09:26:12 PM
IMHO

KE4SKY, I was reading this forum as I am considering participating in our local ARES/RACES EM nets and drills. I respectfully submit that if you are the typical state level ARES/RACES member/bigwig, you need to seriously rethink what you are doing and why you are doing it. If my neighbor or family member or someone stumbling down the road needs assistance during a disaster I am going to do what is required to get that help period, with all resources at my disposal, certifications and training be damned. There is a place for all of that for those of you that are into that, but to blow someone off for simply asking what freqs to monitor during an EM situation is at best condescending and at worst stupid. Lighten up. I certianly hope you are not representative of the orginazations as a whole. I would hate to think that during a disaster, I cannot work thru these worthwhile orginizations just because I do not have certification or a title.  

Just one country boy's opinion,

73 de Milo W4MLO


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: NX5MK on October 11, 2011, 09:44:26 PM
I believe the original post never received a complete answer. Searching on eHam, I found similar threads with incomplete answers.

The two HF frequency lists that I found to send out and monitor for a "Mayday" message are:

http://mmsn.org/iaru.html
http://hflink.com/emcomm/

Alternative or additional suggestions by anyone?

vy 73 de Marcus KD0JKM


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: LA9XSA on October 12, 2011, 12:00:06 AM
The original post didn't ask for the "mayday" activity centers, he asked for which frequency he should go in a nation-wide emergency situation, such as a sweeping power blackout, and that question has already been answered: It depends on what nets and repeaters are active in his area, and getting in touch with the section emergency coordinator, or checking out which emergency groups are active in the area, is a good idea.

The IARU emergency activity centers are more for day-to-day long-distance emergency and marine traffic. It's more for people in peril on the sea, or far into the desert or jungle somewhere. Those frequencies should probably be kept clear of non-mayday traffic in such a national emergency, since there might still be people in distress at sea who need to get a message out.


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: LA9XSA on October 12, 2011, 07:59:37 AM
Think of someone who is very active in local or state RACES is the Lieutenant and the eager, new operator as the private.
No. Think of the police officers, nurses and FEMA officials as the officers, and the people active in RACES as the NCOs and privates in the National Guard. New operators you can think of as the unorganized militia armed with hunting rifles and target pistols. In military terms, the US militia consists of both trained forces (the National Guard and Naval Militia) and untrained forces (any able-bodied man of a certain age).
I'm not saying that the untrained militia is useless, they can be useful in some situations, but in some complex situations they can do more harm than good. (Friendly fire due to confusion, other types of mistakes.)
I would rather have someone with a radio at the hospital emergency room that has participated in drills, but someone there who can at least take orders and pass traffic is better than nothing at all.
I think you went a bit far on that one. An untrained volunteer can be useful in many situations, but an emergency room is about the last place in the world I'd want him in.

If it's a hospital emergency room, I'd rather hand a radio to a member of the hospital staff, like those who usually would have worked the phone when it was functioning. I wouldn't want somebody unknown in there who doesn't know how to behave in that environment. I'm not sure any random untrained ham knows how to pass formal traffic, knows how to safeguard patient privacy, doesn't mess up medical terms, won't collapse under stress, etc. Does he have the necessary background checks to be there? Insurance? A nightmare scenario is something similar to how random Scientologists turned up in at the Port-au-Prince hospital claiming to be health experts and ended up assisting in surgery, some cutting themselves accidentally on the surgical instruments and had to start taking AIDS medication.

Untrained volunteers might be useful. In some situations unaffiliated volunteers might be needed, and called for through broadcast media or ham nets.
"The Methodist Church on 7th Street appeals for forestry service qualified chainsaw operators to come to assist in clearing away trees."
"ARES is appealing for more trained traffic handlers to come to the fire station at 2nd avenue and Bart street"
"Can anyone give me a relay into the section traffic net? My HF antenna is down, and I have priority traffic"
Just showing up on your own accord will usually just get you sent home, or at best put to work doing something else. If you see something like a bus full of school children getting swept away by the flood waters, of course you should call for help with any means necessary, but don't expect to be let into an emergency room or EOC just like that.


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: W5DQ on October 13, 2011, 09:31:52 AM
...... In military terms, the US militia consists of both trained forces (the National Guard and Naval Militia) and untrained forces (any able-bodied man of a certain age).

..... forestry service qualified chainsaw operators to assist in clearing away trees??

Sorry XSA but 'US militia' ??? Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: LA9XSA on October 13, 2011, 10:19:43 AM
Sorry XSA but 'US militia' ??? Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!
Sure you do:
US Code Title 10
Quote
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
The US National Guard consists of the state National Guards, when they are turned over from governor's command to the President - if I understand correctly.

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!
This is actually based on a real post-hurricane callout from the USA; I think it was in Texas after Ike in 2008. Probably for insurance or safety reasons, the church specified that they wanted volunteers who were certified by the USDA Forest Service as competent chain saw operators. People who would have this card, would be people who have volunteered or been paid to cut down trees on federal land in the past. Volunteers can do stuff like clearing trails, making fire separations, even supervise other volunteers. They say the only Forest Service job a volunteer can't do, is law enforcement - yes the Forest Service has law enforcement officers too.


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: VK5CQ on October 14, 2011, 01:17:51 AM

All amateurs who intend to assist with EmCom should affiliate with others in their communities.  They must become part of the organized response, and follow the established emergency communications plan developed by public safety officials and coordinating non-governmental organizations.  

There is no room in EmCom for unaffiliated, untrained, but perhaps well intentioned amateurs who would self-dispatch and freelance on their own, thinking they are going single-handedly to save the world with their radio.

I agree with you, mostly... but - having all that gear setup (both at home & in a mobile / portable context) give one a leg-up over most non-Hams, and they should at least be encouraged to Listen, IMO.

Maybe a place to do that - at least, while Internet is working - is on EchoLink or, for paying customers, CQ100, etc.

After Hatii, there were conferences that dealt with that disaster... not much traffic, but a place to go & hear some.

Of course, tuning about & looking for disaster-related net's & Hams organizing their responses, eg, on VHF or UHF can sometimes be helpful & somewhat informative (eg, for the listener & their family & some of their neighbors).

Scanners - along-side broadcast receivers, tuned to local emergency info broadcasts - are an untrained Ham's best friend... they don't let the desire to help translate into transmissions, that might "clog-up" busy incident channels... ;-)


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: W5DQ on October 17, 2011, 12:13:57 PM
Sorry XSA but 'US militia' ??? Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!
Sure you do:
US Code Title 10
Quote
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
The US National Guard consists of the state National Guards, when they are turned over from governor's command to the President - if I understand correctly.

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!
This is actually based on a real post-hurricane callout from the USA; I think it was in Texas after Ike in 2008. Probably for insurance or safety reasons, the church specified that they wanted volunteers who were certified by the USDA Forest Service as competent chain saw operators. People who would have this card, would be people who have volunteered or been paid to cut down trees on federal land in the past. Volunteers can do stuff like clearing trails, making fire separations, even supervise other volunteers. They say the only Forest Service job a volunteer can't do, is law enforcement - yes the Forest Service has law enforcement officers too.

Regardless of what US Code says, I am a US citizen, have been since birth (and I, unlike some in the news, have an AUTHENTIC US birth certificate to prove so) and have been associated with the military in one capacity or another since birth and I have never heard of anything called the militia in any form in that time. We have regular US military, active duty reserves, non-active reserves and various branches of National Guard. Tothe best of my knowledge, NG units are in non-active ready reserve status until called up by the President. To state that the US has a 'organized militia' simply because of the words in the US statues is incorrect. If that were the case, we would have alot of thinng in the US taht don't exist in reality and were once a good measure but have been superceded along the way by something else.

As to the Forest Service chain saw issue, I speak from experience. Many places in the US, again especially in the southern US where I grew up, you would be hard pressed to find anyone turned away from helping in a small community after a local or larger disaster. Of course once the US gov't gets involved with agencies like FEMA or other 'official help organizations', all bets are off. But to say in the example of a church needing trees cleared away, anyone with a chainsaw would be put to work immediately upon volunteering regardles of any codes or statues.

Many times in situations like referred to above, things like the US Code or other 'legalese documents' are not referred to to get the job done. It's neighbor helping neighbor get through the worst of it.

Gene W5DQ


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: LA9XSA on October 18, 2011, 04:30:05 AM
AUTHENTIC US birth certificate
::)
have been associated with the military in one capacity or another since birth and I have never heard of anything called the militia in any form in that time. We have regular US military, active duty reserves, non-active reserves and various branches of National Guard. Tothe best of my knowledge, NG units are in non-active ready reserve status until called up by the President. To state that the US has a 'organized militia' simply because of the words in the US statues is incorrect. If that were the case, we would have alot of thinng in the US taht don't exist in reality and were once a good measure but have been superceded along the way by something else.
This isn't some non-enforced law against wearing red shirts on Wednesdays; that section defines the organized militia as the state National Guard (perhaps also the various state defense forces), and defines most everyone else as being part of the unorganized (reserve) militia.
When you're active in the US National Guard, under command of the President, you are not part of the militia, but when you are under the command of the state governor/state adjutant general you are considered part of the organized militia. The reason you've never noticed the term is perhaps the same reason why "police officer" or "cop" is more often used than "peace officer".

The main point here is that the unorganized militia is not trained, while the organized militia has training and sometimes experience from active duty in conflict areas as well. Just owning a gun does not a National Guard make.

As to the Forest Service chain saw issue, I speak from experience.
So do I. It was a real public call for volunteers by a church in Texas that wanted Forest Service certified chainsaw operators only; a guy I talked to tried to volunteer but was turned back. What you're talking about is helping your neighbors, and you can do that. But as you say, with organization comes complications like safety regulations, insurance and potential lawsuits. At least most of the US has Good Samaritan laws - if not it would be like China where if you neighborly help a person in need, you might not just get sued if you do it wrong, but might even be held responsible for the original calamity.  :-\


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: AC2Q on October 25, 2011, 01:33:35 PM
Blah Blah Blah >>>>The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared. While it is true that amateur radio is a hobby, providing EmCom is a commitment. If you are not adequately trained, equipped and prepared, you cannot do your job competently or safely.<<<<<Blah Blah Blah

Don't let the above response discourage you, most ARES Groups are a good, non-judgemental bunch.

AC2Q





Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: NN4RH on October 25, 2011, 10:31:43 PM
Quote
Blah Blah Blah >>>>The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared. While it is true that amateur radio is a hobby, providing EmCom is a commitment. If you are not adequately trained, equipped and prepared, you cannot do your job competently or safely.<<<<<Blah Blah Blah

I guess Amateur Radio is much too important to be left to mere amateurs.


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: LA9XSA on October 27, 2011, 06:40:05 AM
I guess Amateur Radio is much too important to be left to mere amateurs.
The "Amateur" in Amateur Radio is supposed to be in the sense "engaging or engaged in without payment" - it's not meant in the sense "inept or unskillful".


Title: RE: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen
Post by: NN4RH on October 28, 2011, 03:52:47 AM
The "Amateur" in Amateur Radio is supposed to be in the sense "engaging or engaged in without payment" - it's not meant in the sense "inept or unskillful".

Huh??    Who said anything anything about amateur radio operators being "inept or unskillful" ?     Wasn't me.