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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: AC2Q on June 11, 2008, 07:10:52 AM



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AC2Q on June 11, 2008, 07:10:52 AM
Perhaps I am an oddity, but over the past several years, when offered the opportunity, I have talked to Amateurs in other countries about thier health care systems.

Am I alone in being SCARED TO DEATH of the possibility of Socialized Medicine?

This election, as in all past Presidential elections since I was eligible to vote (1980) will be the "lesser of 2 evils"



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: N4CQR on June 11, 2008, 11:14:21 AM
I like Ron Paul. Unfortuately the future does not look good for him.

Craig N4CQR
Berea.KY.USA.Earth


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KA1MDA on June 11, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
No, it scares the crap out of me too. My question to those supporting it is: Do you really want the same people who run the DMV to be in control of your health care???

73, de Tom, KA1MDA
www.ka1mda.org


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KB9CRY on June 11, 2008, 07:10:15 PM
The Democrats (like all Socialists and Fascists) are all about Control of the Masses.

The Public is basically stupid and if you keep a populace ignorant, poor, and hungry, they are easily controlled.

Think about that statement in terms of our current public education system and how those kids are testing out these days, think about the high gas prices and how the Demos don't want US drilling due to environmental reasons, and the rising prices of food and other staples.  Think about if the government controls the media.  Think about if citizens could not own and bear arms.  The Dem control Congress but all they do is blame GW.  Really, the blame is with them, isn't it?

Don't be confused about what is best for most people; we as individual citizens, in a democracy, really really want to control our own lives and DO NOT want the Government to do that.  Don't think that they'd go after our frequencies; for the good of the country.  Are you a citizen?

Vote very carefully.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KE4DRN on June 11, 2008, 08:20:57 PM
if their plan for health care is so good,
let congress be the first to 'test fly' it
for the next four years.

I bet most of us would not get the same medical
care that sen. K just got.

airlift outta his vacation home to mass gen,
mega testing and then brain surgery right here
at Duke Univ Hospital in Durham NC.

btw, wanna know why mrs clinton is so nice
to sen obama ?

she loaned 11 million of her own money to her
campaign, she has little time left to repay the
loans (get obama to ask for more donations to
help mrs. c repay the loans)
otherwise after the dem convention, if not repaid,
mrs clinton has just made an $ 11mm campaign
contribution to herself !

73 james

73 james


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KU2US on June 12, 2008, 06:30:22 AM
This is what really SCARES me about Obama: The guy dont know how many states there are in the Union! He was asked how many states he was or did campaign in. His answer-"All 57 of them, and I got one more to go". And he wants to be PRESIDENT? Like stated above, universal health care is just one more way the Gov't can control you. The Dems have been blocking oil exploration for years, so its now GW's fault? The GOP just blocked a bill by the Dems to tax excess profits by the oil companies. Now the Dems are crying that the GOP dont care about the high cost of gas, but in reality, if that tax bill was passed, what do you think will happen? The Oil companies will pass it on to the consumer and the price for gas will be even higher! DUH...And what about US? we will lose frequencies, because the Dems will make them "universal frequencies". The environmental whackos will get some, and maybe we may even hear "Air America" on 20 meters. My fellow hams, think this November out carefully, and watch what lever you push in that booth. McCain may not be the favorite choice for everyone, ( Im a Mitt Romney Guy) but he is the lesser of the two evils.  


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KU2US on June 12, 2008, 06:42:13 AM
I forgot: If you want freedom, all our freq's to be intact, your choice of doctor & treatment, less taxes, & less Gov't control:

Dont vote for:

Barak "HUSSIEN" Obama .


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: W3LK on June 12, 2008, 06:50:24 AM
Give the following a read ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365382,00.html

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WW5AA on June 12, 2008, 08:32:27 AM
Where is Ronnie Reagan? The end of a democracy is when the welfare and Government freebee class discover that they can vote themselves liberal politicians and benefits. Heaven help us all!

73 de Lindy


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: SKEPTIC on June 12, 2008, 09:16:34 AM
Pure genius.  I wish I'd read about this before I voted for Obama in the primary.

Seriously, this has nothing to do with ham radio.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WW5AA on June 12, 2008, 11:20:55 AM
"Seriously, this has nothing to do with ham radio"

It will when the "one world, one people" types in government decide it is in the interest of "all the people" to sell our frequencies!

73 de Lindy


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KA1MDA on June 12, 2008, 01:58:00 PM
I heard a great one on 40 meters a few weeks ago- can't remember the station's call, but I think he was down south in 4 land. He was in a political QSO with another station, and his words were priceless. He said (quoting to the best of my recollection):

"My daddy told me a long time ago- Son, there ain't nothin the government can give you that they haven't taken away first."

BTW, since Obama loves talking about change, here's my take on what his speeches really mean:

Change is good.
We need change.
I believe in change.
What I believe may change.
What I say may change.
Because I believe in change.
What I do tomorrow may not be what I promised today.
It may change.
But change is good.
We need change.
I need change.
Send all your spare change to my campaign.
Blah blah blah...

73, de Tom, KA1MDA
www.ka1mda.org




Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AA4PB on June 12, 2008, 04:15:05 PM
He'll give you change but you can be he'll keep your dollars.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: W8JI on June 12, 2008, 04:19:46 PM
Let's see.


My Ham friends in New Zeland, Australia, and Europe all laugh when I tell them we don't want socialized medicine. They tell me we are fools.

I tell them we will have to wait in long lines, and they say "not here we don't".

Then a few months ago I got a blood clot in my leg. I went to a hospital and laid there for several hours before the EMP told me to go home and take a few asperins and see my doctor. My doctor was out from Friday until Monday. My doctor sent me to a specialist who saw me 10 days later, even though I had a golf ball sized clot by then.

The specialist saw me and said lay down, take aspirins, and it will go away.

A month later it was bigger and harder, and I pleaded for help. I was sent to another specialist who saw me withion a few days. A week later he stripped the vein out and removed a clot bigger than a meat ball.

This all cost me $3000 even though I had a Blue Cross HMO I pay $1100 a month for.

Last year my buddy in Australia that lives miles from everywhere has a sore back. They sent a car to pick him up. They saw him within an hour and scheduled him for surgery. He got operated on right away, and his total charges were something like $25 for some presciption co-pay.

My buds wife in New Zeland needed major heart surgery, and got in right away. Didn't cost her a dime. She's fine.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why our own system seems to work poorly yet many people think it is great.

Can anyone explain why our system costs more, doesn't work better, yet we all like it and want to keep it?

Are we afraid the rest of the people in the world are smarter than us, and we can't even copy what someone else does?

Or have we all been duped by the lobbyists?

My conclusion is our system works great if we work for someone who pays our healthcare, if we are loaded and want botox injections, or if we never get sick. Otherwise it sucks.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KE4DRN on June 12, 2008, 04:35:09 PM
hi,

with all the fraud that we have with medicare,
we'll have much more if they force us to have
universal healthcare.

the medical business needs to be run like a business,
just like the dentists do.  they all expect to be
paid in full when service is rendered. they don't file
insurance anymore.  they let you file it with their
receipt for the service.  keeps their costs very low.

MD offices have expensive computer software to hook up
to the insurance companies and that costs a lot of money.
plus the staff to keep up with the mountain of paperwork
generated by the medical billing software etc.

neighbors are from the UK, they are now us citizens.
they always talk about their free healthcare back
in the UK.  Free no way !  

Canadians travel into NY State for medical care,
they can't wait in canada.

Ask anyone in the UK and canada about their VAT
tax, that is what pays for healtchare.

Many other countries have medical coverage for the
population, they have plenty of money to pay for it.

Reason is they have NATO to protect their country and
that means the USA foots the bills for the military.
We spend so much to keep our military strong
 little money left to pay for other stuff.  Not to mention the mess in iraq etc.

73 james


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KB9CRY on June 12, 2008, 06:31:43 PM
Tom, ask your friends in NZ, AU, and EU land what kind of other personal "freedoms" they have?  I'm talking about freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom to assemble, 2nd Amendment type rights, etc.  And I'm talking rights, not privledges.

They might paint a different picture.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WW5AA on June 13, 2008, 06:45:16 AM
The problem we have here is that the emergency wards are full of illegals that use the service free of charge. The waiting room is packed with them getting treated for a cold, indigestion, headache and hangovers. They are not required to have ID or give an address, no medical card needed. This is costing all of us unusual folks that work for a living, are retired, and have medical insurance a bunch of tax money. Time for another "Tea Party"

73 de Lindy


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: RADIOHEAD on June 13, 2008, 10:39:48 AM

1. Here's the difference in taxation between McCain and Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fbxpMw4mco

2. The Democrats have a majority in Congress, but they don't have 2/3 of the vote, not enough to trump Bush's veto powers.

3. In 2000 Bush signed an energy bill that removed government regulation of gas prices and allowed speculators to run roughshod with the market. You're paying $4 a gallon because of those policies.

4. The traditional Republican party of yesteryear has been hijacked by the Neo-Cons way back in the 70s.
So, if you're voting Republican you're voting for a police state. The Patriot Act and dozens of other bills  have taken away more freedoms and more rights from the average citizen since the 1920s. If you think the Democrats are "fascists" as you put it, wait until you start reading up on the current administration and the last 8 years.

Finally, please, please, do yourselves a favor and delve into what each candidate stands for, on taxes, on health care, on the war, etc.. Don't just fall for sound bites and slogans or read a short article on Fox News. Fox News is yellow journalism. One can't even put journalism in the same sentence as Fox News.

And lastly, try to leave racism and age out of it. I know that McCain is probably the same age and color as many amateur radio members, but try to consider the issues, not the looks or name as one xenophobic member pointed out, "Barrack Hussein Obama".



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KB9CRY on June 13, 2008, 12:06:38 PM
voting Republican you're voting for a police state.

And if voting Demo, when they take away your 2nd Amendment rights, you'll have the same thing.


 The Patriot Act and dozens of other bills have taken away more freedoms and more rights from the average citizen since the 1920s.


I would also agree to this.  None of these parties are good but we must vote.

And can't have a Tea Party without our 2nd Amendment rights.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WA8MEA on June 13, 2008, 05:49:14 PM
Do you really want the same people who run the DMV to be in control of your health care???
--------------------------------------------------------
DMV is on a state level.  We're talking FEDS.

I'm a "Senior Senior" in college, and I was required to be on a debate team about this issue.

My opening statement was:

"Do you want the same people who regulate the U.S. Postal Service, which couldn't even deliver my letter to a neighbor across the street, to be in charge of your health care???"

Bill


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: K7PEH on June 13, 2008, 06:10:37 PM
"Do you want the same people who regulate the U.S. Postal Service, which couldn't even deliver my letter to a neighbor across the street, to be in charge of your health care???"


The US Post Office handles more mail in a day then most of the rest of the world handles in a week!  And, I have never had an occasion, that I know of, of mail miss-delivered.  The biggest problem I face are people who steal things out of the mail box so our neighborhood is working on fixing that.

I have heard horror stories of most other countries.  People in Italy never use their mail system as it is not trusted and things are stolen by the postal delivery people.

The UK has a good mail system and a few other countries but the star of the show is the US Postal Service.

No, I do not work for the US Postal Service.  I am just glad we have something that works as well as it does.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WA8MEA on June 14, 2008, 09:05:01 PM
Well Phil, you live in mild mannered Kirkland.  Live around Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis or Detroit and see how efficient the USPS really is.

I have a sister, a niece, an ex-wife and three good friends who work for the USPS.  You should hear the horror stories I hear!!

I live just a few miles from Jackson, Michigan where they've had multiple problems.  An alcoholic mailman who dumped his mail along the Grand River and went to bars instead.  A husband and wife team that took their mail home first, went through it looking for gift cards (cash), credit cards....but they left the checks alone. (Too hard to cash, I guess.)

Back in the 1980's, when I first met my second wife, she sent me a birthday card.  It took four days to travel across town.

Then there's the smashed amp sent to my buddy in Alabama and the crushed antique Grundig receiver that went just 60 miles upstate....BOTH TRIPLE BOXED AND WRAPPED IN BLANKETS!!!

And what about this rip-off deal where YOU PAY the USPS a monthly few to do THEIR WORK for them at your own home or office????  It's called "Click it and ship it."

Or the postmaster who threaten to "kick my a--" simply because I called the post office at the county seat to complain that I wasn't being properly reimbursed for my IRC's.

The biggest scam?  Tacking on postage due at the place of delivery.  In order not to anger my customers, I've got a rubber stamp that says:

"DO NOT pay any additional 'Postage Due'!  This article was weighed at the post office of origin."

Need more stories?  

How about the term; "going postal"????

Sure it's better than other countries.  However, should we settle for first place/second rate service???  It's like a .500 team winning the Super Bowl.

UPS is much worse.  FedEx costs are out of this world.  And DHL had an employee who liked to drink his lunch, and slammed his delivery van into the back of my truck while it was stopped at a red light.  My truck is now an inverted vee shape....

Bill



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: K7PEH on June 14, 2008, 10:01:39 PM
>>>Well Phil, you live in mild mannered Kirkland. Live around Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis or Detroit and see how efficient the USPS really is.

I do have a Kirkland mailing address but technically I don't live in Kirkland.  I live in an unincorporated slip of land, just a few blocks actually, between Kirkland to the south and Woodinville to the north.

Apparently I live in a better place then you do though.  Not only is our mail delivery first rate, we had the same mailman delivering that mail for 30 years.  He just retired a few months ago and he had been our mailman the entire 30 years we lived here.  I have no complaints.  He treated us nice and he called us by name.  He lived in the same area too because we used to regularly see him at the local grocery store.

Since then though we have had two different mailman delivering our mail.  A new experience for us but so far no complaints.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KI9A on June 17, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
And this has to do with HAM RADIO, HOW??

Why don't all of you dribbling, drooling republicans go post this crap on the rush list...


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AC2Q on June 18, 2008, 06:46:58 AM
KI9A writes:

Why don't all of you dribbling, drooling republicans go post this crap on the rush list...  

...............................................

Thank you for your insightful, well thought out input =0)

If any term applies, it is ANTI-SOCIALIST


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: W3LK on June 18, 2008, 06:57:41 AM
<<  Why don't all of you dribbling, drooling republicans go post this crap on the rush list... >>

Only dribbling, drooling democrats are allowed to post?

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KI9A on June 18, 2008, 06:08:48 PM
Dribbel, dribbel, wipe the mouth, drool, drool, world will end if the dems are elected...time to tune into rush, drool, drool. They will take our guns ( But, I still have mine, nobody has come during 8 yrs of Clinton for mine, how about yours? NOPE!) Time to get brianwashed by Hannity. SHEEP!

I'm not a big fan of Obama, at all. But, I am also not a fan of Mc Cain, Yes, I totally respect him, for what he went thru 40 years ago, but, it doesn't qualify him to be president. A vote for him, is a vote for a 3rd term of the bush crap. I can't afford that.

1998 I paid .77 CENTS a gallon for gas. 2008, I paid ( 18 June ) $4.23/gallon. Yeah, I know about China, but thats not enough to quad the price. Drilling in ANWR would only drop the price of gas here by 2 CENTS, that isn't the answer either. Refineries? 8 yrs of Republican presidentcy, and 6 yrs of that with right wing control of the house/senate hasn't changed that.

We are spending how many billions a day in Iraq?

Afganistan, Bush did good there. Kudos to him on that. Seriously.

Yes, I support the troops, I send a Marine unit in Iraq a care package EVERY month, since 2004. Have you? What have you done? Think about this before you flame me. If was younger, I'd sign up. Would you?

What do you think of a president ( close to a dictator ) that sends US fighting men and women into harms way, in Iraq, IGNORING his TOP GENERALS, who, said he needs to invade with 500,000 troops in order to secure the country, and shrugs it off, and sends in 140,000 or so troops?

To me, thats treason. That bastard should be tried, and procecuted. Some of the Marines I email/snailmail with, that we "adopted", say they go out on patrol, deal with IED's, get rounds from small arms thrown at them, fight back, and run the enemy off, as excpeted from our brave fighting force. Then, they leave, and the bad guys just retake what our warriors just fought and bled for.  Sounds alot like Vietnam, doesn't it?

Again, I don't like Obama, not at all. But, it's time for a change. A third term of Bushcrap is NOT the answer. Obama might not be, either.



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KI9A on June 18, 2008, 06:12:53 PM
"Only dribbling, drooling democrats are allowed to post?

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut "


No, Lon, you miss the point.  Why the hell is this on a HAM RADIO HOBBY forum? If you want to talk about wireless, this is what it is for. Not for every brainwashed righty ( or lefty ), to post political bullshit on.

73-Chuck KI9A


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KI9A on June 18, 2008, 06:15:10 PM
KF8ZN crawls out from under his rock to post:

If any term applies, it is ANTI-SOCIALIST

So, does that mean it is PRO-FACIST??



Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WA8MEA on June 19, 2008, 05:21:32 AM
Actually, I paid my first over $2/gallon gasoline under the Clinton administration....but nobody believes me! (Or they CONVENIENTLY want to forget....) And no, I don't live in Californication.

Same excuses back then, too: blended gas, pipeline down, blah, blah, blah....

Bill


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WA8MEA on June 19, 2008, 05:26:55 AM
No, Lon, you miss the point. Why the hell is this on a HAM RADIO HOBBY forum?
-------------------------------------------------------
Because is says MISCELLANEOUS!

This is exactly the problem on air.  We sit there and talk about....ham radio. (Or the weather, or the recent blood in or stools....)

Blather on with this drivel!  Better than hearing about the results of some OM's biopsied mole....

Bill


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: W3LK on June 19, 2008, 07:17:47 AM
<< Better than hearing about the results of some OM's biopsied mole.... >>

Darn, I missed that!!! What did the biopsy show?

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: SV1ENS on June 19, 2008, 02:14:31 PM
Hi All,

It's really strange seeing Democrats calling Republicans "Fascists" and Republicans calling Democrats "Socialists" or better yet "Reds"... Especially when both parties actually lay on the same side of the river !

Unless US manages to live under a multi party senate which includes representatives of real Socialists or Communist and real Fascist parties, all the complaining from either sides are just different shades of the same color !

"Socialist" ideas such as "socialized health" may work and may not work, depending on how serious the government approaches the issue and how the people embrace and use (or abuse) the system... "Socialized health" works fine in Sweden, works wonders in Ontario Canada, however works lousy in UK as well as in Greece...

Change if feared by the Republicans while it's advocated by the Democrats, however neither of them realise that change is a fact of life regardless of their will.

In the words of John F. Kennedy: Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

In the words of Heraclitus: All is flux; nothing stays still. You cannot step twice into the same river, for other waters are continually flowing in.

Just my two Euro Cents worth...

73
Demetre - SV1ENS


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: WA8MEA on June 20, 2008, 04:48:09 AM
It takes Demetre, a citizen of another country to nail it:

**Especially when both parties actually lay on the same side of the river!**

Amen!  But the side of the river they lay on is the LEFT side....

 


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AC2Q on June 20, 2008, 07:16:37 AM
KI9A writes:
Dribbel, dribbel, wipe the mouth, drool, drool, world will end if the dems are elected...time to tune into rush, drool, drool.
--------------------------------------------------

You have issues my friend, perhaps medication is on order?

I started this with a non-offensive statement regarding my concerns about socialized medicine, and you attempt to cloud the water with a bunch of Grade School Sniping.

This Country weems to be enamoured with the idea of copying Europe, I did enough time overseas in the Military to know that I don't want that. I don't like thier attitude,I don't like thier cars, I don't like thier food.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AC2Q on June 20, 2008, 07:55:48 AM
Is this the same KI9A, perhaps he IS off his meds now....
--------------------------------------------
KI9A writes in another forum:

There is no reason for people to email him with nasty stuff. Period.

I'm pretty sure he understands the concept of delete, but, he seems to be a decent guy, giving common courtesy to open and read emails, and all he gets is delete..delete..Qsl bullcrap?

Wow. Where did all of the real hams go? Seems to me in the past 31 years of being a ham has disinagrated to bunch of false tough guys behind a keyboard. And, no, I'm not an old fart. I am a 44 year old construction worker, that has thick skin.

LIGHTEN UP GUYS!!!!!!!!


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: K5CQB on June 26, 2008, 06:43:04 PM
"I like Ron Paul. Unfortuately the future does not look good for him.

Craig N4CQR"

Good for you Craig, Unfortunately the GOP turned their back on him and it doesn't look good for anyone.  Check out the next step;

www.campaignforliberty.org

73,
Jim
K5CQB


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KJ4DLG on June 30, 2008, 06:44:53 PM
I am employed as a registered nurse in an emergency department and I too am very concerned about the possibility of socialized medicine. Look at Canada and England where some have to wait weeks or months for medical interventions that are avaiable pretty much as needed here. Do you want to wait months for cancer surgery? I didn't think so. What about heart bypass surgery?
I also note the tendancy of people who are provided "free" health care [medicaid] tend to come in at more frequent intervals for whatever little problem they have,driving the cost of providing health care to them thru the roof. They don't seem to realize that even though it is free to them, somewhere, somebody pays. The up front cost of socialized medicine will skyrocket after the public realizes they don't have to pay, no matter how outlandish or minor their reason for the visit is. And we can't turn them away, due to the fear of losing federal funding. If socialized medicine consisted only of catastrophic illness or injury coverage, it wouldn't be so bad but the masses WILL use it to death, no pun intended. I also see a number of people who are uninsured by choice, prefering to spend their money on a new 4X4 pickup, jet ski, atv, or vacation instead. Then they get bitten on the rump when they have an illness/injury and have to pay out of pocket [or not at all,resulting in far higher costs in our hospitals]. I recently checked the cost of an antibiotic pill commonly given in the ED. It was $124.05. FOR ONE TABLET. Wal-Mart has an antibiotic in the same family for $4. FOR A FULL 5 DAY SUPPLY. Why is it so high? Because a lot of folks won't pay the bills and we have to charge that to stay in business. And I won't even get started on the subject of illegal aliens who do not pay their fair share of taxes to suppost the medical system in this country! Will close before I get accused of being on a rant. Run, don't walk from the idea of socialized medicine.


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: AE6YB on July 02, 2008, 09:30:55 AM
Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned what socialized medicine will do to our taxes.  When I was in Canada 2 years ago, their sales tax was double what we pay here in California.  


Title: Obama and Amateurs unique Perspective?
Post by: KA5ROW on July 07, 2008, 04:22:47 PM
Obama could be the Beast.

But for now he is a Chump