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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: SV1ENS on May 08, 2009, 10:08:01 PM



Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 08, 2009, 10:08:01 PM
Did you guys notice the amateur radio mobile antennas installed in the USS Kelvin bridge in the new Star Trek movie ?

There were 3 of them, one was a Vhf/Uhf diamond antenna, the other looked like a mobile scanner antenna, the third was indeed a mobile antenna but couldn't make out the type...

A nicely done ST movie with an interesting twist in the plot (I won't give it away), regardless of the mobile antennas and the old fashion plumbing valves in the engineering room of the Kelvin...

So I guess Ham radio and plumbing is alive and well in the 22nd century...  

73
Demetre - VE3/SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: W3LK on May 09, 2009, 06:59:49 AM
I jut saw the movie yesterday and spotted the antennas, as well.

My only complaint is the engineering spaces on this movie's NCC-1701 are far more advanced and complicated looking than in the original series. And the Bridge!!! No where near as simplistic as the original. The original crew would have willingly have mated with Klingons and Romulons to get bridge displays and controls like those in the movie. :)

The twist at the end is illogical, as is the one character who is killed off in this movie but appears live and well in several of the "later" movies.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 09, 2009, 07:32:51 AM
Actually the plot twist was an easy way of creating a story path that doesn't conflict with the ST history facts as per the TV series and the movies to date...

It also created a new path for new movies and a new TV series...

The story writers could have thought the entire plot a bit better and maybe come up with a better story, but the action and effects made up of these short comings...

73
Demetre - SV1ENS

BTW Uhura's first name is Nyota  ;-)


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: W3LK on May 09, 2009, 12:56:42 PM
<< Actually the plot twist was an easy way of creating a story path that doesn't conflict with the ST history facts as per the TV series and the movies to date... >>

But it is a major break that DOES conflict with history. Spock's mother plays an integral part in several of the movies.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 09, 2009, 03:24:21 PM
Actually it's not...

Once the Romulons traveled back in time and interfered with the normal flow of history/time, the altered history/time will reflect one possible of many alternatives...

The chaos theory states:

"Small variations of the initial condition of a dynamic system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system."

The "Butterfly effect" and "Chaos theory" works wonders with sci-fi movies :-)

73
Demetre - VE3/SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: W3LK on May 09, 2009, 04:08:54 PM
point taken. :)

When my wife asked me (as a very old trekkie) what I thought of the movie, I said it was an abomination - but a well done abomination. :)

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N0TRK on May 10, 2009, 08:35:46 PM
Saw the antennas!  Hello.. even in space you need  amateur radio for back up :)

As an original Trekkie seeing all of the episodes on TV on their original air date.. this was GREAT!   It is an ALTERNATE time line.. the things we know are not going to happen.. it is a whole new set of stories in front of us!    This isn't the beginning of the original Trek it is an alternate reality.   J.J. Abrams hit us across the face with it.   So from the day James Kirk was born... nothing will be the same.  


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 10, 2009, 09:20:07 PM

I won't be surprised if we get a new TV series soon, with a more human Spock and a bad boy Kirk...

73
Demetre - VE3/SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: KC2WI on May 10, 2009, 10:19:45 PM
If you remember in the original series episode Balance of Terror it was stated that the last contact with Romulans was 100 years ago durng the Earth-Romulan war but very little was known about them. Contact was audio only, etc.

I haven't seen the new movie only some clips but it would appear that in this movie the humans know a lot more about the Romulans. Plus this events in this movie supposedly happen a few years before the original series, not 100 years before.

So this movie can't be taken seriously as part of the real Star Trek timeline, if that ever was consistant. I also have to agree about the bridge and ship appearance. They could have made it look a lot more like the original except of course do a lot better with the controls, etc. Maybe something like the first  movies. Viewers could accept that because of advancement in techmology in the real world.

From what I see this movie probably relies too much on special effects, etc. The fact is that although the original series "effects" were pretty hokey, we still enjoyed the show because it was not based on the special effects but rather the stories and the caharacter interactions.

Just like Star Wars. I don't think most people care that the original Star Wars effects weren't as elaborate as the later movies. They were good enough and it's the story that counts.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N5LRZ on May 11, 2009, 04:13:08 AM
Re LK...

re: "When my wife asked me (as a very old trekkie) what I thought of the movie, I said it was an abomination - but a well done abomination. :) "


I went this past week to see the new trek movie.   I was almost prepared to be disappointed as having seen the TOS when they were first broadcast.

BUT I surprisingly liked the movie very much.  Kirk was still Kirk but with youthful stupidity, Spoc showed yo momma jokes are not in his favorite jokes, Scottie made me LMAO, Bones was bones--Damnit Jim Im a doctor not a (fill in the blank).

As a Prequel Movie it was not bad.

I place the movie a close second to The Wrath of Kahn and definately better than the very first Star Trek Movie.



Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N4KZ on May 12, 2009, 06:34:19 AM
From the way the movie ended, there's no doubt there will be more of these movies with the "new" cast. It was reported on TV that the next script is already being written. And there's little doubt that future Star Trek movies will somehow use the black holes for time travel to erase what occurred in the latest movie so it all jibes with the TV show -- that is a certain planet still exists and a major character's parent is still alive.

As I told my wife on the way home from the theater, it's not exactly Star Trek as I have followed it since day No. 1 -- Sept. 8, 1966 -- but who's counting? -- but it's a close approximation. I was 12 years old when the original hit NBC. I never, never would have thought that 43 years later it would still be around and I'd still be a big fan. But is is and so am I.

Live long and prosper,
Dave, N4KZ


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: KH6AQ on May 12, 2009, 01:12:09 PM
Did you notice the tower top sections in the movie?


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: KE4DRN on May 12, 2009, 05:45:32 PM
hi,

The Guardian of Forever could be visited again and again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever

73 james


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 12, 2009, 09:02:40 PM
What about the tower ? did they have an HF beam installed ??   :-)


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on May 20, 2009, 08:22:55 PM
For the benefit of those who haven't yet seen the movie.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4848/snapshot20090521061412.jpg

73
Demetre - SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on May 21, 2009, 04:21:20 PM
Will much of the rest of the world's population see the ham radio connections in this movie.  Even though I was told about the antennas before I saw the movie -- I still missed them.  I might have been distracted by the rather unrealistic bridge set.

In the early 1950s a great movie was made, "The Day The Earth Stood Still".  Yes, it is a classic.  But, the best part of this old classic in regard to futuristic views of technology was the scene showing Mr. Carpenter at the command bridge of his flying saucer (when he was contacting home base to set up the day the earth stood still).  Here was a command and control system based on some kind of sensory interaction -- no buttons, no displays of any sort that we would recognize, and no switches or knobs to turn.  Just wave your hand over a few panels and magic happens.

Star Trek, even their latest movie, has shown very little imagination in the future technology possibilities.  There should be less need for visual displays.  After all, if the computers are really controlling most of the ship, less man-machine interaction is needed -- humans are just going along for the ride.

Taking this argument a little farther I think it is obvious that my Yaesu 7800R VHF/UHF rig is far more advanced then the Star Trek command bridge.  It gets by with the minimum of knobs, buttons, and information display.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on May 21, 2009, 04:29:53 PM
P.S. on Star Trek --

They did a decent job casting the main characters.  Dr. McCoy was a perfect fit -- a computer generated facsimile could not have been better then the actor they chose and he was the best fit for capturing McCoy's mannerisms and quirks.

The worst was Scotty -- The real Scotty was a serious down-to-earth engineer not some giddy twirp like the guy portrayed in this movie.  The original actor who played Scotty, James Dohann, lived just a few miles away from my home QTH and he and I would often run into each other at the local Costco in Kirkland (WA) or Starbucks Coffee in Redmond.  Even though he would often catch autograph hounds I never did approach him to say hi or anything in the multiple times that are paths would cross over the years (I think I am shy).  I read someplace that Dohann's grandson played the role of Scotty's assistant at that remote Starfleet outpost on the frozen planet.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: NQ6V on May 21, 2009, 05:30:42 PM
Years ago, "Scotty" owned and operated a hobby locomotive stored at Travel Town, in Burbank, Ca. He sometimes pulled it  out of storage, hooked it up to passenger cars, and give persons rides thru the park.

I had no idea he moved up north.

About the movie. I thought it sucked. they could have remained loyal to the original instead of destroying Vulcan. I was expecting a first adventure of the historic 5-year mission, and not Kirk being made Captian and not yet an Academy graduate, just woooshed into the center seat.

I really do not belive there will be any more episodes of this paticular series. Too many people are just shaking their heads at all the false claims of how great people say the movie is, and say"I will never watch it.".


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on May 21, 2009, 06:13:54 PM



So much for not giving away the movie...


I didn't have time to go see it anyway.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: NO6L on June 05, 2009, 06:12:39 PM
What is it with modern day "Hollywood"? They do remakes (planet of the Apes), remakes of remakes and recently remakes of remakes done from remakes (King Kong). They also seem to have an obsession with prequels, and, they never work because some Hollywood knucklehead thinks he can do better than the original and ends up with a bunch of contradictions.

Or, in this case, knows there will be contradictions and covers them up with things like time travel. Which can't work, because if it did, when the subject exits the "portal", everything in the universe would have moved and they'd never know where they physically are. Sorry about popping some "Coast to Coast AM Time Travel" fans fantasy bubble, but there it is.

So, what could they have done that would would have eliminated contradictions and the tired old time travel debacle? Here's a thought, there were plenty, as in dozens of open ended episode plots from not just TOS, but STNG, DS9, STV *and* STE to keep them busy for decades. Many were down right excellent and would have made first rate stories if they were concluded in a feature 100 or even 1000 years hence, with a new crew for crying out load.

Oh well, I'll still go watch it, what the hell. But it really should have been a sequel further in the future, without another "Save the Whales" scenario, by the way.

But, what do I know.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N5LRZ on June 07, 2009, 03:37:59 PM
Re NO6L...

In TOS there was an episodes in TOS that involved time travel for the Enterprise and its entire crew  with Kirk as captain.

"City on the Edge" was about time travel as well but it was via a portal.  Still it was time travel of sorts.

I can rember one off the top of my head, when the eterprise went back in time using a large star to slingshot the ship faster so it would go back in time to monitor the launch of an orbiting nuke space platform by the US in retaliation for one launched by the Russians--cold war era theme of course.

So the Original Series did in fact have time travel, all be it by a different means of bringing it about but still time travel.

The Next Generation also had time travel when time was altered because Piccard did not become captain with the result a galactic war.  There was a Galactic Rift that opened up a Time Portal to the past where the old past enterprise was sucked up into the future.  You may remember it because the older Enterprise went back thru the rift on a suicide mission that eneded up restoreing the normal balance.

And also, in Deep Space 9, there was of course the Worm Hole and the jumping between parallel dimensions of dual characters on a routine basis.

So 'Time Travel' has always been a part of the Trek and Trek Spinoff series.

Now IF you are making reference to the theory of point of focus of gravity in a black hole where all matter is crushed (Point of Singularity I think it is called) by the gravity of the black hole then of course in theory time travel thru a black hole is theory impossible.  BUT THEN AGAIN when has Hollywood ever been completely Factual about science, theory or proven.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N5LRZ on June 07, 2009, 03:39:13 PM
Re NO6L...

In TOS there was an episodes in TOS that involved time travel for the Enterprise and its entire crew  with Kirk as captain.

"City on the Edge" was about time travel as well but it was via a portal.  Still it was time travel of sorts.

I can rember one off the top of my head, when the eterprise went back in time using a large star to slingshot the ship faster so it would go back in time to monitor the launch of an orbiting nuke space platform by the US in retaliation for one launched by the Russians--cold war era theme of course.

So the Original Series did in fact have time travel, all be it by a different means of bringing it about but still time travel.

The Next Generation also had time travel when time was altered because Piccard did not become captain with the result a galactic war.  There was a Galactic Rift that opened up a Time Portal to the past where the old past enterprise was sucked up into the future.  You may remember it because the older Enterprise went back thru the rift on a suicide mission that eneded up restoreing the normal balance.

And also, in Deep Space 9, there was of course the Worm Hole and the jumping between parallel dimensions of dual characters on a routine basis.

So 'Time Travel' has always been a part of the Trek and Trek Spinoff series.

Now IF you are making reference to the theory of point of focus of gravity in a black hole where all matter is crushed (Point of Singularity I think it is called) by the gravity of the black hole then of course in theory time travel thru a black hole is theory impossible.  BUT THEN AGAIN when has Hollywood ever been completely Factual about science, theory or proven.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N5LRZ on June 07, 2009, 04:48:13 PM
OK here is a problem for Trekies....

IF RF traves in free space at approx the speed of light.  

Then when the Enterprise is traveling at faster than the speed of light...HOW can it transmit forward if the ship is going faster than the speed of light and the RF Travels Forward much slower than the ship?


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 08, 2009, 02:19:36 PM
Assuming that is not a bait question...

it's more of a question for freshman physics students than for Trekkies, unless they happen to be the same.

And, the answer is: your question makes assumptions that are not correct.

That's why Einstein was so smart. He knew the right questions to ask.

Go to the used book store and get a freshman physics book and look for the chapter on "relativistic  effects" or something like that. If you don't find that, look in the index for "time dilation" or "twin paradox."


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: KE4DRN on June 08, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
hi,

the ship has FTL, Faster Then Light processors,
plus all sorts of beams that emit from the main
deflector array.

The USS Enterprise first experienced time travel in 2266 when an emergency cold starting of its warp drive slingshot the ship and crew 71 hours into the past. (TOS: "The Naked Time")

In 2267, after an encounter with a black star, the Enterprise was hurled 300 years into the past. Eventually, the Enterprise's science officer Spock devised a method for returning the Enterprise back to its original period. (TOS: "Tomorrow is Yesterday")

Sometime in 2268 the Enterprise traveled back in time, using the light-speed breakaway factor, to 1968 on a historical research mission. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") This episode featured Robert Lansing and Terry Garr

And in the movies to return to Earth to beam up
a pair of whales that were extinct in the future.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 08, 2009, 05:48:03 PM
If you guys are really interested in this kind of stuff, read the book "The Physics of Star Trek" by Lawrence M. Krauss.  Krauss is a theoretical physicist and authors a number of popular books explaining the magic of modern physics.  He also has a sequel to this book called "Beyond Star Trek" that discusses the physics of such movies like "Independence Day" and other questions.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 09, 2009, 04:53:41 AM
.
I'll have to check out the Krauss book.

Please tell me that at some point he makes it clear that there is a very good reason they call it "science **fiction**."

Conceding there are exceptions, a lot of cops don't like most cop movies, as most lawyers don't like most court case movies, doctors don't like to watch "ER" and most people who have had any science education tends to find science fiction movies a bit absurd.

They're just "movies."


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: N5LRZ on June 09, 2009, 08:58:16 AM
Re END...

Nope its a TOS and perhaps TNG script explanation question.

I remember the mention of Sub Space Frequencies.  But I do not ever seem to have any memory of what exactly these allegedly SSFs per scripts.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 09, 2009, 09:25:35 AM
I am offering a good argument that every single Star Trek episode on TV and in the movies is a time-travel story.

Both special relativity and general relativity invoke time dilation as a result of relative motion and acceleration (which is equivalent to being in a gravitational field).  In particular, with ST, whenever the Star ship accelerates which it always does in invoking warp drive (see comment at end) then time slows down for the star ship and its occupants.  That is, they age more slowly.

The federation headquarters in San Francisco on Earth though is aging at normal rate for the earth in its gravitational field so it moves into the future much faster.  So, when the star ship Enterprise communicates with the federation on earth it is communicating with them in their past.  That is, since the TV show or movies do not recognize the time translations required by SR and GR, they must by definition be communicating into the past of the Earth.  And, when they visit the San Francisco offices in what the show implies is current time, it is actually in the past history with respect to the planet earth.

Comment on Warp Drive -- who knows what his is and it could be a form of space warping which is sort of what was used in the book Dune.  Even so, GR would require time dilation in the same manner as if you were accelerating.  Good stuff to read on this subject is Kip Thorne's writings on "traversable wormholes and time travel" and also his book: Black Holes and Time Warps.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 09, 2009, 09:31:03 AM
On the book "The Physics of Star Trek" by Lawrence Krauss.

If you are interested in science fiction and how such fiction might be made real or what laws of physics might prevent such fiction from being realized then this book is for you.

The author, a theoretical physicist, takes various aspects of the TV show, such as warp drive, energy shields, transporter, and so on and explains what physical principles are required, what amount of energy might be required, and so on to make such things true.

And, while I am at it, there is another popular author who writes on similar subjects.  This is Michio Kaku and he also is a theoretical physicist doing work in particle and String theories.  A good book to start which discusses similar topics is "The Physics of the Impossible".

Both these books are available in paperback at B&N, Borders, etc.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 09, 2009, 11:12:44 AM
>
"Re END...
Nope its a TOS and perhaps TNG script explanation question.
I remember the mention of Sub Space Frequencies. But I do not ever seem to have any memory of what exactly these allegedly SSFs per scripts."

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I can only guess about those acronyms. "TNG" probably means "the next generation," but "TOS?" "The original show," perhaps?"

I'd have to speculate what they mean by "sub space" propagation or frequencies.

Physics is all about dimensions. Everything is a dimension, except "dimensionless" numbers like 'pi' or gain (for y = mx + b, x, y and b represent constant and variable values in dimensions; "m" is the gain of a perfectly linear amplifier and is dimensionless.)

There are 4 fundamental dimensions in the universe that cannot be described without using the dimension as its own description. "Time" is one of these 4, for example. All other dimensions are derived from these basic 4.

Electromagnetic waves propagate in 3 dimensional space and according to other dimensions, such as time, electric field, constants of the medium, etc.  

If there exists a way to collapse the relevance of one or more dimensions to--in our present understanding--"cheat" and send information from one place to another place in space and arrive faster than it would have otherwise at the speed of light, that could be one explanation for "subspace propagation."

Why they chose to call it "subspace frequency" may imply that the usefulness and efficiency of their method is a function of frequency, much as the index of refraction in a dielectric is a function of wavelength and the nature of the dielectric matter.

If the above assumed is sufficiently close to being accurate, "subspace frequency" might mean a specific frequency within the allowed bands of "subspace" propagation.

But what do I know? Take it with a cubic mm of sodium chloride in the solid crystal-lattice state. I only watched Star Trek the two years it was on TV the first go 'round. '67 and '68 or so, as I recall. By the time the first movie came out I was out of college and in my first career. My impression is it was a hyped special effects response to "Star Wars" released a couple of years prior. I would have enjoyed it more had they not shaved the head of Persis Khambatta.

I appreciate the mention of the books, but so far I'm pretty comfortable with my understanding of physics and its relationship to science fiction.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More importantly, the TECHNOLOGY of Star Trek was nothing short of clairvoyant!!

Many examples exist, but the lapel communicators, the Bluetooth earpiece worn by Lt. Uhura, the PTT Nextel phones, microwave-laser neurological stun guns, and of all things, the CD-ROM storage of historical information and executable files needed for the equipment to transport one to that era of history!!!

This to me is the most impressive aspect of the original TV series.

Bravo for Gene Roddenberry!!!


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 09, 2009, 11:29:44 AM
K5END and subspace propagation...

Actually, subspace propagation is a real physical phenomena described by General Relativity -- at least in theory.  This is indeed the same kind of physics as wormhole traversal.  But, this is after the fact.

In the original TV series, the mention of subspace channel for communication was mentioned from time to time and it clearly indicated a kind of communication that would transcend the obvious problems of distance and speed of light and time.  But, it was not explained.

In the TNG show, this was actually explained as being a subspace wormhole type communication.  This is basically folding space as in the book Dune.  And, this is explained in a rather detailed manner in Kip Thorne's book that I cited on an earlier posting.

You mention that your understanding of physics is good enough for science fiction (or, whatever it was that you said) and that is fine.  Not everyone is into this kind of physics discussion.  But, I really enjoyed the books myself but maybe that is because of my degrees in physics which gives me maybe an added dimension to enjoy the discussion.

Also, if the story was rewritten for today they would use quantum entanglement for their form of instantaneous communication.  By the way, there is a very interesting article about time travel and QM in the Physical Review Letters and a summary of it at http://focus.aps.org/story/v23/st18.  The Physical Review Letters publication though is available only under APS or PROLA.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 09, 2009, 11:47:49 AM
>
"You mention that your understanding of physics..."

Yeah, that came off sounding haughty and I didn't mean it that way, even as much as it does sound like I meant it that way.

I'm home with a cough and am bored to tears...don't know what I was thinking. Actually, I do. I had my mind on something else very specific.

I appreciate your perspective and I will check out those books.

Thanks again.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 09, 2009, 11:51:36 AM
>>>>
I'll have to check out the Krauss book.

Please tell me that at some point he makes it clear that there is a very good reason they call it "science **fiction**."
<<<<

Krauss does not attempt to prove that such "fiction" as it appears on the TV or movies can be possible, he actually does more of the opposite but along the way explaining what would be needed in order for such things to be possible.

I read the book when it first came out which was a number of years ago.  I don't even have my copy anymore because I gave it away.

Now, the author Kaku is a little different.  He actually believes that there could be such a civilization as depicted in the Star Trek movies, maybe thousands of years in the future though rather then a few hundred.  Kaku provides a measurement of a technological culture as to weather they achieve mastery over the earth, mastery over the Sun and System System, mastery over a Galaxy, and so on.  The Star Trek show depicts a technological advancement that fits into Kaku's mastery over the Solar System but still confined to a Galaxy type thing.  I am not doing his work very much justice in these short words though.

Kaku, is a bit of a strange guy though.  He is a popular guest on the "Coast to Coast" radio show, first with Art Bell (W6OBB) and now with whatever his name is, George ??.  I actually do not listen to the show myself as it is on too late and I am not interested.  However, Kaku is a very good physics "teacher" -- his text on Quantum Field Theory is very good and he makes such a difficult topic just a little bit easier.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 09, 2009, 11:52:28 AM
>
"if the story was rewritten for today they would use quantum entanglement for their form of instantaneous communication"

I assume this refers to separated, paired particles/spins and Bell's theorem, that sort of thing?


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 09, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
"... assume this refers to separated, paired particles/spins and Bell's theorem, that sort of thing?"

Yes, that sort of thing.  Quantum entanglement was scoffed at by many physicists for years and never taken seriously.  Back when I was in school, it was not even seriously pursued as an area of study.  However, experiments are done today that show quantum entanglement is a reality.

By the way, the article I mentioned about time travel and QM involved quantum entanglement as the means of connecting the past and future events together.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on June 09, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
This is what I really appreciate about Amateur Radio Operators; they take a trivial comment about a poorly set up of a Hollywood movie stage; and turn it into a quantum physics discussion !!!

Although my physics knowledge stops at the basics, I was never really alienated by the Star Trek physics, it all sounded realistic at the context used !!!

However, I remember reading the "Digital Fortress" by Dan Brown and kept thinking to myself; "what a pile of crap"... As IT is my cup of tea, I found the plot build around a CIA super computer simply idiotic...

73
Demetre - SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 09, 2009, 01:09:41 PM
...
well, all things are relative, right?

:-)

I hope to get over this cough soon. I've done way too much ehamming lately.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: KE4DRN on June 09, 2009, 06:49:26 PM
hi,

I'm going to look at those books too !

this topic just may give one of the
young pups a spark to explore quantum physics
and who knows what he or she will come up with !

73 james


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K7PEH on June 10, 2009, 09:43:33 AM
>>>well, all things are relative, right?

Yes.  Except for the speed of light which is actually fixed.  Of course, I mean speed of light in a vacuum but even this is not correct.  Think of a photon as a massless particle (which it is).  As a massless particle, it can care less whether it is in a vacuum or not, it always and forever travels at the speed of light.  But, the effective measured speed of an electromagnetic wave has to consider the problems of those photons interacting with other matter that gets in the way.  This is the reason that the speed of light is less in some non-vacuum realm and why the effective electrical wavelength of transmission line or antenna is less then it would be if calculated purely from lambda =  speed-of-light divided by frequency (note my segue back to ham radio).

If a photon is massless and thus is FORCED to travel at the speed of light, of course ALL massless particles MUST travel at the speed of light (such as gravitons).  But, if a particle has mass, such as a proton, electron, quark, whatever, then it travels at a speed necessarily less then light.  So, there is something about mass that interferes with a particles natural speed (that is, the desire to always go at the speed of light).  Mass becomes some kind of hindrance to normality.

So, some bright physicist decided to invent some invisible field that permeates all space and this field sort of gives some force against a particle that has mass so that it cannot travel at its desired speed.  In fact, it is said that this field creates inertia which his another word for mass.  This field is the Higgs field and it is the current primary goal of modern theoretical physics and that is to discover the Higgs Field by finding the field's quantum particle called the Higgs particle.  The motivating factor to build the LHC was to find this Higgs particle.

Sorry, I get carried away when it comes to topics such as this.


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: SV1ENS on June 10, 2009, 11:29:11 AM
Taking under consideration that ST science has managed to make warp technology a reality, and can send a body through space many times the speed of light using a time/space bubble, why do we assume that similar advances have not been made in two-way communications to achieve similar results ?

30 year ago in high school, we used a teletype keyboard connected to an IBM main frame with a coupling modem achieving the incredible speed of 300 baud. It used to take several minutes to communicate a simple program to the main frame and get a reply back!!!

Today, I'm siting comfortably in my veranda with my MacBook Air on my lap connected over a 100 Mbit wireless  personal net with over 15 Mbit connection speed to a global network of computers exchanging Treky thoughts...

How much of science fiction would the latter sound to me or anyone of us 30 year ago ???

Just my two euro-cents worth...

73
Demetre - SV1ENS


Title: New Star Trek and Ham radio ?
Post by: K5END on June 10, 2009, 01:40:02 PM
">>>well, all things are relative, right?

Yes. Except for..."

Actually I was being facetious, but I see what you mean.