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eHam Forums => Company Reviews => Topic started by: W4NJF on June 19, 2008, 03:09:33 PM



Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W4NJF on June 19, 2008, 03:09:33 PM
On 19 May this year,I ordered some parts for an antenna using Mosley traps.Gave the sales rep ( IIRC Gary) my Visa # and it was promptly debited on 21 May.Was told the order would shipped "within 7-10 business days";ok no problem.17 June rolls around,still no parts,but my B of A Visa showed a charge of $399.84 credited to Mosley.
Called them up this AM (they did not respond to my e-mails to them regarding the status of this order)and got gaffed off again-now before I turn this over to B of A for action,what experiences have you had with this outfit?Mosley was great back in the '60s,is it just a ripoff now?
73 de Bill W4NJF


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB2WIK on June 20, 2008, 11:48:09 AM
I think they've gone seriously downhill since founder W0FQY passed on.  Almost everybody complains about the service, nothing in stock, etc.



Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K0OD on June 20, 2008, 12:45:07 PM
"I think they've gone seriously downhill since founder W0FQY passed on. Almost everybody complains about the service, nothing in stock, etc."

--
Didn't Carl Mosley (W0FQY) die nearly 30 years ago? I've been reading complaints about them for about 29 years I think :)  In some ways they're doing a bit better than a few years ago. Website is much better for one thing. Owners son is now involved I think.

Does Mosley ever carry even their biggest selling items (TA33s?) in stock for immediate delivery? I don't understand why they seem to stock nothing... ever. At least that's my impression.  

I would suggest that anyone considering buying a really expensive array from them have their bank run a credit report on Mosley.  



Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: MAZZ1232002 on June 20, 2008, 01:26:39 PM
 Go to the Mosley web site and click, click, click and click some more trying to see their products, they claim theirs are the best of the best but I be damn if I can find a picture of these best of the best antennas. I guess I must be a little stupid in spite of the fact  that I hold a law degree and an undergraduate degree in Accounting. If what they claim that their construction is the best of any amateur radio antenna (again being a bit stupid) I would think they would at least want to show the stuff off for everyone to see, I guess they know what they are doing.

  Pete
  WB4CGA


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: KE4DRN on June 20, 2008, 04:08:05 PM
hi,

Found this on the news section of their website

http://www.mosley-electronics.com/newspage/news.htm

says they are working on emergency military order.

Still no reason to charge your bank card full price
if the antenna is not available in stock,
even a 20% deposit would be a bit much.

73 james


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K0OD on June 20, 2008, 07:33:43 PM
A ham reports on his 2002 trip to Mosley's plant in Union Mo to buy some parts:

"I ask him [Gary the owner] if I could take a tour of the plant while I waited.  He said I could have done so if I had called ahead to arrange the time but that they were working on classified equipment for the government so he couldn’t let anyone in the plant."  




Interesting quote from Mosley's website today:

"Due to this [gov't contract] we will be pulling some of the plant people on and off the amateur production line."

I'm not far from Mosley. I may drive by it some time to see what their amateur "production line" consists of.


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB6T on June 22, 2008, 03:12:26 AM
RE: Mosley Problems
As of today 6/22/08 I am still waiting for parts for my CL-33.  Back in May I ordered the WARC Kit and a 40 Meter element kit for my antenna.  I noticed a few days ago I was billed on my VISA Card for the parts/kits.  Orginally I was told they would have a production run and they would ship in the the first week of July 08.

Seeing this on my credit card, I called Mosley to see if they shipped early.  Reply was NO, they have not run production, but the first week in July they will ship. Actually I thought it was not legal to charge for something not shipped.  Having a new tower instalation up and just sitting there waiting for the parts is tough for me.  I will have to wait another couple of weeks and see if they hold true to their word.  This is the first company I have delt with, that bills before the product is even in production.  I question if I should have went ahead and paid for this until I received the kits.  WB6T@ARRL.NET  


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB2WIK on June 23, 2008, 03:18:14 PM
Since they build antennas, it's hard to believe anything they do could be classified as secret by the military.  In fact, I'd bet the bank that statement is just baloney.

We build navigation and surveillance computing systems for the Global Hawk and other military aircraft, and nothing about any of it is classified.  Anyone who wishes can walk through the plant while we're making this stuff.  All the "classified" information is software which we don't touch and have never loaded -- Grumman does that part.

WB2WIK/6


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB2WIK on June 23, 2008, 03:22:23 PM
>RE: Serious Problem with Mosley       Reply
by K0OD on June 20, 2008    Mail this to a friend!
"I think they've gone seriously downhill since founder W0FQY passed on. Almost everybody complains about the service, nothing in stock, etc."

--
Didn't Carl Mosley (W0FQY) die nearly 30 years ago? I've been reading complaints about them for about 29 years I think :) In some ways they're doing a bit better than a few years ago. Website is much better for one thing. Owners son is now involved I think.<

::30 years ago they didn't have a website, nor did anyone else!  Yes, Carl died decades ago and I do think the company took a downhill turn almost immediately thereafter.

I used to be a stocking distributor for Mosley products back in 1966-1970 (Federated Electronics, in Springfield, NJ) and we had dozens of their beams in stock: TA-33's, CL-33's, TA-36's, etc.  We even stocked their 6m and 2m beams, and some accessories.  On a typical day, we probably had fifty Mosley beams in the warehouse.

Now as far as I know, they don't have any stocking distributors at all and as reported here, do some suspicious things with customer's credit cards.  Sounds like a company without enough operating revenue, so they manufacture to order only, and after they get paid.  

It was never anything like that 30 years ago.

WB2WIK/6


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K0OD on June 23, 2008, 05:32:56 PM
I first toured the old Mosley plant on Lindbergh Boulevard in St. Louis around 1958 with my junior high radio club.

In that chilly period, hams were finger printed as part of the licensing process. We kids worried about  being sent to Gitmo for not having a functioning Conelrad monitor. :) Eisenhower himself must have run my pals and me past Joe McCarthy as we did get to see those ultra secret Mosley antennas in production.
 


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W4NJF on June 24, 2008, 12:16:01 PM
Well guess what! The items that I ordered on 17 May just showed up today.I guess you just have to "rattle Gary's cage" to get any results.Tnx to all the hams that were sympathetic to me on  this (and specially to Steve,WB2WIK
Hi KID!Vy best 73 de Bill W4NJF (ex WA2UUV)).


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB2WIK on June 24, 2008, 02:37:55 PM
Glad they came through, Bill!

Now I can take the pins out of the little Mosley doll and stick them in the wall map...

:-)

73

Steve WB2WIK/6


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WU8P on June 25, 2008, 05:09:12 AM
I purchased a TA 33 about 5 years ago. It was the same back then. First it was the military orders, then it was on the dock waiting for pick-up, finally it was "we received the wrong Aluminum stock" you don't want a bad Yagi, do you ?
It was getting quite funny at the end. I would call just for a new excuse.
The TA 33 is a very good Yagi, but I don't think the aggravation is worth it.

Phil WU8P


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: MAZZ1232002 on June 25, 2008, 10:08:41 AM
 A friend of mine ordered a TA-33 from them back in the mid 90's, he waited about 5 to 6 months for delivery. I helped him put it up and take it down, real top quality antenna, If I were wanting a tribander that is what I would order but well ahead of time!

  Pete
  WB4CGA


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: N3OX on June 26, 2008, 09:34:13 PM
"Now I can take the pins out of the little Mosley doll and stick them in the wall map... "

Oh, so that's how propagation works at the bottom of the cycle...



Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W3FJ on June 28, 2008, 05:04:46 PM
I had the exact same experience as K0OD back in the late 90's. I was in the area on business and stopped by Mosley for a visit and asked Gary for a tour and was informed because they were doing government contracts the tour wasn't possible. Shortly thereafter I ordered PRO96 and so did my next door neighbor. What a mistake that was because delivery was very slow and I heard every excuse in the book during each phone call I made to check on the status of the order. I guess I should have followed my gut feeling I had after making my visit to the factory and bought a Force 12.
From my experience, I'd never recommend a Mosley antenna to anyone these days. I must say that mechanically they are very well built, but performance leaves much to be desired.

73, Mick
W3ILG


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K9KEN on July 02, 2008, 05:44:41 PM
Well I just had GREAT RESULTS FROM MOSLEY ! I had order a complete rebuild kit from Mosley TA33 two weeks ago and Received it today ! So I am not sure what all the hubub is about but there not as slow as Steppir ! lOOK AT THEIR LEAD TIMES !

Thanks
Joe


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K5XS on July 08, 2008, 09:26:33 AM
I find it interesting that I can find no sign of government contracts having been awarded to Mosley on either www.governmentcontractswon.com or www.fedspending.org.  

I find Cushcraft, Ten-Tec, Ham Radio Outlet, Icom, Vertex-Standard (Yaesu), Kenwood Communications, Amateur Electronic Supply, and many others, but no Mosley.

I may not be searching right, and I suppose they might have been a subcontractor to someone else, but it makes me wonder.


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W4KVW on July 09, 2008, 05:58:37 AM
I received my NEW Mosley TA-53M from Mosley in 2006 & their was a couple of weeks delay.They said the parts that were made did NOT meet their specs & were remade to meet specs.They build the antennas on an AS NEEDED basis & do NOT build extras just to lay around in boxes waiting to be sold.I guess with todays cost that makes better sense than building to many of one model & having them lay around unsold & taking up needed storage space?I spoke with Gary several times & he was VERY helpful & I agreed that if the parts do NOT meet specs then correct the problem as they did. As I said,I had a little EXTRA wait but the antenna was worth the wait in my opinion.The site is EASY to navigate as well & my antenna system(TA-53M,M2 6M5X,& Cushcraft 215WB)is pictured on their web site just under the TA-53M header along with my feedback letter under it.ANYTHING worth having is worth waiting for, GREAT antennas included! }:>)THANKS MOSLEY again!

Clayton
W4KVW
Former:KE4KVW


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: MOSLEY on July 11, 2008, 12:50:20 PM
Greetings to the Amateur Community,

It is unfortunate to read the comments posted by W4NJF.  Mosley is not about to make the details of his orders public nor are we going to get into a he said/she said debate, but W4NJF is not telling the whole story nor is he being completely fair or honest.

I invite W4NJF or any other Amateur who may have a concern with Mosley to contact Mosley directly before jumping the gun and making such posts.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I seriously caution anyone putting out misinformation or false accusations.  
 
Again, anyone with any concerns regarding ordering, orders placed, lead times, antenna theory and design; we are only a phone call or email away.  Over the past 70 years, it has been our experience that the majority of our customers appreciate the job we do and the products they receive.  We know we cannot please everyone, but we try to do our best.  

Sincerely,

Gary Wurdack, Jr.
Mosley Electronics, Inc.


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: WB2WIK on July 11, 2008, 03:37:58 PM
Great, Gary.

Is a factory tour available?  That would be great fun, and I'll be in the area next month.

Let us know?

Thanks & 73,

Steve WB2WIK/6


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W8EZT on July 11, 2008, 03:56:19 PM
Hi Gary (MOSLEY),

While the thread is hot, and you're an active participant, I have several questions about documentation, based on looking at your web site several weeks ago.  

I recently acquired an original TA-33 that had been up for over 30 years.  I believe I have all all the major parts, but the trap end caps and element insulators are in bad condition.  I went to your web site last week to look for the manual to  a) make sure I had all the pieces, and  b) to get the part numbers to order replacements.  After looking in vain, I finally found this line: "Please call or write for documentation on any Mosley antenna.  A nominal charge to cover the cost of processing and mailing will apply.".  

Though it's possible I missed your on-line manuals (if they exist), based on the previously quoted text, it appears you are charging me $$ to get the information I need to place an order.  Is this true??  This was a normal business practice 30 or 40 years ago, but with the advent of the Internet and instant information, I can't fathom you you wouldn't simply put the parts list and dimensions on-line, to save the time and the hassle of processing requests for parts lists.  The only possibility that comes to my mind is that you're using the sales of documentation for income generation.  While it's your choice to run your business model as you see fit, most other antenna vendors put their product documentation on-line to streamline the ordering process.

So I guess my question(s) are:

Do you have a manual for the TA-33 online?
If so, please post the URL - I was unable to find it?
If not, what is the "Nominal charge"?

I should add that I gave up in frustration when I saw that line, and have been looking into either manufacturing the needed parts myself, or scrapping the refurb project and buying another (non-Mosley) antenna.

Thanks for your time.

         - Frank


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: MOSLEY on July 11, 2008, 04:40:53 PM
Dear W8EXT,

Contact us via email.  We do not have our documents online.  This is something we are working towards.

For now, we send out PDF diagrams and parts lists via email for the various "common" antenna models.  There is no cost.  We can send the diagrams via FAX as well with no cost to the Amateur.  In the future, we will have complete assembly documents online for download.

For now, if anyone needs the COMPLETE assembly document for any antenna we have ever produced, we ask that the request be submitted in writing and handled through the mail.  For this, there is a nominal fee to cover the expense of handling the request.

We have over 4200 differnt assembly documents going back 70 years.  The more "common" or "most requested" documents will be put online, but not all of them.  The majority of the older designs/documents are on film, such as our mobiles, quads, and early vest pocket designs.  These will still be handled by written mail.

Please be patient with us as we make these changes.

Again, please drop us an email, and we can get you the information you are looking for.

mosley@mosley-electronics.com

Sincerely,

Gary Wurdack, Jr.
Mosley Electronics, Inc.



Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W4NJF on July 13, 2008, 02:25:58 AM
I don't believe Mr Wurdack is being totally candid with us.Had  he or his representative responded to my email regarding the shipping status of my order, then this thread would not have been necessary.Now we shall probably hear that someone in a much lower paygrade deleted that email and Gary never saw it,so what is your beef? I'm not "woofing" on the product-it's top notch,just the customer relations aspect of this transaction.
73 de Bill


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: MAZZ1232002 on July 15, 2008, 07:36:12 PM
 Hi Bill
      I have had the same problem many times with my business. A while ago a customer (a repeat customer I might add) purchased and paid for an antenna from our online shopping cart. I sent a confirmation email. A week later I get an email from him asking if I had received the payment and when the antenna would be shipped,I responded within 12 hours. About a week to two later he does a charge back, reason being nonreceipt and no communication from the seller. Every email I sent him bounced as undeliverable with some kind of message about junk mail filters. I never was able to advise him of anything. The good thing is he did not jump on eham and accuse me of being a crook and a scam artist as some others have done.

       Pete
       WB4CGA


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K0OD on July 15, 2008, 10:01:07 PM
Could it be....

No it couldn't.
No business automatically routes spam/junk email directly into the trash. Spam filters are pretty bad. They certainly can't tell the difference between a $10,000 order from a "Dick" Smith and a spammy Viagra ad.  Jeesh!


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K5LXP on July 23, 2008, 06:53:14 AM
This is my take on it (and purely speculative on my part) but I view Mosley as a commercial antenna company with a amateur sideline, not the other way around.  They make amateur antennas out of parts and materials they make their primary, commercial products from.  So it would seem logical, from a business standpoint, that amateur products would take a back seat to their real money making, recurring and large orders.  Far be it for us to criticize their business model of build to order for a low volume market like amateur radio.  I refurbished my 40+ year old CL-33 and I was impressed with the helpfulness of Gary, and whoever worked in the office that provided me with CL-33 drawings free of charge, through the mail.  Yes, they are proud of their parts but I considered it a long term investement, and but a small part of what it takes to keep dependable aluminum suspended in the air.  The "classified" projects and advance billing credit cards does seem questionable, and I would offer to Gary and the folks at Mosley to just tell it to us like it is.  Just say you're too busy to do a dog and pony show tour of the factory, and if there is a big project going on, just when amateur production is to resume.  Methinks it's better to have a customer walk away due to knowing the delay up front than failing to keep a delivery promise and getting a bad rap for it.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: K0OD on July 23, 2008, 08:00:21 AM
"(and purely speculative on my part) but I view Mosley as a commercial antenna company with a amateur sideline, not the other way around."

--
I had wondered about that too. (I'm in the market for a nice tribander) Look up mentions of Mosley in Google and most are ham/CB-related.  

Rather than "purely speculative," there's a lot of research one can do online. Start by seeing what sites link to theirs.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&pwst=1&q=link:+http://www.mosley-electronics.com/&start=20&sa=N

However, it could be they are doing such secretive work that one might risk death from a poison umbrella tip or polonium-laced tea cup by inquiring further.


Title: Serious Problem with Mosley
Post by: W8EZT on September 10, 2008, 09:56:41 AM
Earlier in this thread I posted my concerns that Mosley didn't have a manual available online for their popular TA-33.   Gary (Jr.) replied, explaining why, and suggesting I e-mail them for assistance.  I did, and had an extended e-mail dialog with a very helpful person (Melissa) who provided a diagram, parts information, and prices for individual replacement parts and a parts kit.

Unfortunately due to the amount of deteoriation I didn't want to jump in and spend $200+ until I was confident I could get it working.  I ordered the minimum parts needed (a trap sub-assembly and some SS U-bolts) and will try to assemble it and verify that the traps work, and then purchase the remaining parts needed to get it on the air (the Penetrox, and the insulator blocks (I'm using paraffin soaked wood for testing)).  

Gary (Sr.) took my order and was very helpful, suggesting a test procedure (I was going to use an MFJ-259B, but he recommended using a transceiver with the power at minimum and an SWR meter to confirm proper operation).  I was warned that they were busy, and my order could take several weeks,  It arrived earlier this week, a bit less than 3 weeks.

So far, so good.  If I can get this thing to tune, I'll order the remaining parts, and with luck I'll have it up in the air in time for cycle 24 (whenever that might be)!

Just wanted to relate my experience (so far) with Mosley.

  - Frank