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eHam Forums => Elmers => Topic started by: KC0UXP on November 16, 2010, 04:27:36 PM



Title: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 16, 2010, 04:27:36 PM
http://swap.qth.com/fcc/fcc-cbtable2.htm

Ok i have a question are these radios illegal to own i dont quite understand . i just found out that FFC has opened up a small area of the 10 meter band for a tech class to talk on ive always wanted to dx and i like a couple of these radios if i buy one am i breaking some kind of law?


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: W5FYI on November 16, 2010, 05:08:14 PM
They're illegal to import or market, but not necessarily illegal to use (what made them illegal, apparently, was their easy conversion to CB frequencies). If you have one, use it.

The small band of frequencies that might be interesting you are single sideband frequencies. It's still illegal for techs to operate AM or FM on 10-meters. However, it's easy enough to upgrade to general; then the world will be yours. GL


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: N3OX on November 16, 2010, 05:11:29 PM
Ok i have a question are these radios illegal to own i dont quite understand . i just found out that FFC has opened up a small area of the 10 meter band for a tech class to talk on ive always wanted to dx and i like a couple of these radios if i buy one am i breaking some kind of law?

They're not illegal to own, nor are they illegal to use on the 10m band if they meet certain criteria for cleanliness of output.

Hams are allowed to use pretty much anything provided we can meet the technical standards.  The hard and fast one is that they must have a good low pass filter that knocks down harmonic output sufficiently.  Some of these radios probably have that, but I don't know if they all do.

The other problem is more subtle and involves how much "splatter" these radios put out.  Some of them may not be very clean.  However, if you are considerate, take any reports of splatter VERY seriously, and don't try to get maximum output on the meter, they can probably be made adequately clean for use on the 10m band for use with a dipole or small beam.

The problem with these radios for ham use is really that there's no guarantee that they meet standards like harmonic suppression or have reasonable IMD numbers for ham transceivers (intermodulation distortion, the thing that causes splatter).

They're more or less manufactured for an illegal market where people just don't care about such rules.  In fact, splattery radios are desired by some CB and freeband aficionados. 

You can look at the schematic, if you can find one, to make sure the radio has an appropriate low pass filter so you don't radiate out-of-band harmonics (can be REALLY bad news if you get caught with a harmonic on a public safety band or something!!!!). If you're really conscientious and are proactive in ask loud stations to check you for off-frequency splatter, that's probably adequate in staying within the spirit of the law regarding distortion, etc.

But if you save up a little more money, you can probably buy an older HF transceiver that will get you on the other bands if you choose to upgrade, and won't make you worry whether or not you're radiating excessive junk because of a poorly designed transmitter intended for people who don't care if they break laws.






Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 16, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
This is the info I have is there anywhere I can look I don't see a specific on what mode I am or am not allowed to uses pep I'm guessing is ssb
10 Meters is USB the only mode i can use?

what is the next level to go so i can talk some father stuff?
 i got the tech class because i have search and rescue training, CERT and im a part time cop
 so it got me all the VHF i needed.
 Ive shot skip before when i was 17 years old i bought a maco 103c beam back then, 13 years later im dusting off the beam and looking for a radio :)


Novice and Technician, Technician Plus classes:
28.000-28.300 MHz: CW, RTTY/Data--Maximum power 200 watts PEP

28.300-28.500 MHz: CW, Phone--Maximum power 200 watts PEP

10 METER BAND PLAN (ARRL)
28.000-28.070   CW
28.070-28.150   RTTY
28.150-28.190   CW
28.200-28.300   Beacons
28.300-29.300   Phone
(Tech - 28.300 to 28.500mhz)
USB
28.680   SSTV
29.000-29.200   AM
29.300-29.510   Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.590   Repeater Inputs
29.600   FM Simplex
29.610-29.700   Repeater Outputs

General, Advanced, Amateur Extra classes:
28.000-28.300 MHz: CW, RTTY/Data
28.300-29.700 MHz: CW, Phone, Image



Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: N3OX on November 16, 2010, 05:37:01 PM
You can talk all over the world on 10m when it's open.  It's starting to open up more these days, and in a few years it will be really good.  Then a few years after that it will shut down almost completely because of the 11 year sunspot cycle.

Right now you can probably find South America and Africa and the Pacific pretty regularly on 10m.  Europe will be coming soon, and in  a few years you'll be able to work everything.  I worked Indonesia from my dorm room in New York state back in 2000 or so.

It's not really about talking FURTHER, though.  The furthest point away on the globe is not usually the hardest to work.  The closest country to the furthest point from me is Australia, and that's really easy to work.  To contact the most places, it helps to have more options on frequency, though 10m at the peak of the sunspot cycle will pretty much open to everywhere at different times of the day.

You can sometimes work further than halfway around the globe if conditions are right.  Sometimes the "long path" works better, which goes more than halfway around.   10m will make it all the way, no problem.  But it's only good like that for a short time around the solar activity peaks, while a band like 20m is open all cycle long.

Quote
10 Meters is USB the only mode i can use?

Yes, you can only use USB in the voice portion.

That's what this means : (Tech - 28.300 to 28.500mhz)
USB

PEP means "peak envelope power..." to distinguish it from other ways of measuring the power (like RMS, etc). 
Ham radios are specified in watts PEP.  My legal limit on most of HF as an Extra class is 1500W PEP, the typical HF rig
puts out 100W PEP.


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 16, 2010, 06:25:53 PM
Ok what time is skip the best is it at night or day I had the easiest time at night on lsb with my cb


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 16, 2010, 06:29:14 PM
Also what is the next step up from tech and what could I talk on then?


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: WA3SKN on November 17, 2010, 04:42:53 AM
These are illegal to use in the Citizens Band (CB) Service.
As an amateur, you can build or use anything.  The control operator (you!) are responsible for the proper emissions and operation of your transmitter.
As a technician, you have both CW privledges and SSB privledges on 10 meters.
You will find that the technican SSB portion is 28.3---28.5 Mhz and USB is used.  A simple dipole with a total length of 16 ft 6 inches (8ft 3 in per side) fed with coax will get you on the air.
10 Meters has been opening during the day for E-skip and some F2 openings.  Nightime will probably be local only.
If you don't already own one consider the limitations of single-band radios.  If you do own one, get it on the air!
And do consider upgrading to the general class... it is worth it if you are interested in HF operations!
73s.

-Mike.


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KB3HG on November 17, 2010, 05:08:03 AM
Jake,
Not to be rude or insulting, if you still have your Technician manual and study guide, reread the sections on HF. Moving on up to the general license is not that much work. Perusing the ARRL Handbook would not hurt either.  Just remember getting the ticket is only the entry fee, it opens up the possibilities of learning new things all the time.

Tom Kb3hg


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 17, 2010, 05:11:52 AM
Cool will do thanks for the info and I'll give general a shot 73s catch y'all later


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: AD6KA on November 17, 2010, 01:16:03 PM
Quote
Ok what time is skip the best is it at night or day? I had the easiest time at night on lsb with my cb

A friendly tip: Drop the CB lingo when talking to hams.
either on the air or on the Net. It doesn't bother me, doesn't bother some
other folks. But I guarantee that eventually someone will take you to task
for it, and it won't be pretty or polite.

Tom gave you some really good advice about
reviewing all about HF, how propagation works,
and your band priviliges. Don't forget, you can ALSO
run Digital Modes and CW on parts of 10m as a Tech.

And even more important than that...you can
use up to 200w CW on small portions of 15m, 40m, and the 80m
bands too, where there is TONS more activity.
15m has been jumping lately. Don't dismiss the CW idea out of hand,
it's easy to learn.
Not all ham radio coms are done using a microphone.
73, Ken  AD6KA


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC0UXP on November 17, 2010, 02:11:07 PM
Haa never had the cb lingo to begin with :)
And as far as cw goes I tried it all it does is make me frustrated
Attention deficit disorder kicks in and it all sounds the same to me :)


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: WB2WIK on November 17, 2010, 03:56:58 PM
Haa never had the cb lingo to begin with :)

Yeah, actually, you did, and you've been using it here, like this:

Quote
what is the next level to go so i can talk some father stuff?
 i got the tech class because i have search and rescue training, CERT and im a part time cop
 so it got me all the VHF i needed.
 Ive shot skip before when i was 17 years old

Hams don't "shoot skip" or "talk some farther stuff."  That is "CB lingo."

Quote
And as far as cw goes I tried it all it does is make me frustrated
Attention deficit disorder kicks in and it all sounds the same to me :)

People with ADD and ADHD are very good at code.  There isn't much concentration required, it's just another language, like learning Spanish.  And, like learning a new language, it's much easier with a "teacher."  Just listening to it is boring as hell and it's very difficult to learn that way.


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: KC4YJI on November 17, 2010, 08:04:50 PM
So, is it against the law to sell these from one ham to another?  I know eBay has rules against it; but, what about on eHam or QRZ?

Funny note: when I ran the spell check, eHam showed up wrong, QRZ was fine.


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: N9VO on November 18, 2010, 06:15:59 AM
I mean no offense to the poster but what I find sad is that here is an individual who has been licensed for at least five years but yet has to ask such questions on a website. Where are his elmers or other local hams. I know it's easy to just ask online, but someone with a license for five years sure should be able to do a little research; either on his/her own or with other hams. Anyone should be able to look at the band plan and figure out what is allowed.


Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: K9YLI on November 18, 2010, 08:05:58 AM
to kc4yji question.

I would say yes. its illegal ..
why.. the law  states about   'uncertified radios,,'
its illegal to  ''  import, manufacture, sell or offer for sale[b

so  that seems to mean anyone,, not because its maybe considered a 'ham' radio,,  but because it is uncertified and "is on the list"..

you can give it away,, or use it on the ham bands with a license  but 
the addition of  "offer for sale" a couple of years back to the  FCC section, means just that,,
 and i think its  section 302 something  that  doesent differenciate
between  big time  manufacturers and  individuals...




Title: RE: banned radios?
Post by: AD6KA on November 18, 2010, 10:28:09 AM
To the original poster I would say read over again what N3OX wrote.

Be practical. You say you're a "part time cop". Every real
LEO I've ever met has been a hard core pragmatist. Face it:
Legalities aside, these radios are just JUNK. Also
they're extremely poor investments, and at present 10m is not a reliable
band for DX'ing. Current predictions for the coming sunspot cycle maximum
are less than encouraging. Some solar scientists say we won't see the 1999-2000
conditions again in our lifetime.

Knuckle down, upgrade to General, and save up your money
for a good condition older used solid state 100w 10m-160m transceiver.

About $400 (more or less) will get you a Kenwood TS-430, 440, 450.
Yaesu FT-840. Icom IC-735, 745, 751A, etc, etc.
You'll be so glad you did, trust me on this.

Yep, 100w into a 20m dipole 30' up will definitely let you
"talk some farther stuff". How does Europe, Asia, and Africa sound?

If as you say, you have SAR training, CERT, and passed SOME kind
of exam(s) to become "a part time cop" (whatever that means) then
surely you have the mental chops to study and pass the General Exam
with little difficulty.

Good luck es 73, Ken  AD6KA