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eHam Forums => Station Building => Topic started by: EA5BZ on December 07, 2010, 01:12:19 PM



Title: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: EA5BZ on December 07, 2010, 01:12:19 PM
Hello friends.
I need a second HF radio for my summer QTH.
I am thinking in a new TS-590S or a used IC-756PRO3.
What do you think is the best choice?
Scoope is not the most important for me.
Receiver performance is most important for me.
Thank's a lot for your help.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: NO6L on December 07, 2010, 04:46:03 PM
I have the TS-2000, and from what I've read, the '590 is better (HF and 6M, obviously), owing to the 32 bit DSP and roofing filters. The reviews here (eham.com) say it is a fine rig better than 9 out of 10 times.

Another rig in the same price/feature category is the FT-950. As a bonus, it's got an equalizer to help make any mic sound at least acceptable, and in may cases, perfect, for your voice. Of course, if you really want something great, grab an FT-2000 with it's sub-receiver. That's where I would go currently if I was in the upgrade market.

Something else to consider, almost every one I know who owns or owned (gave up on) a recent vintage, post IC-746, seems to be spending more time using their "backup" rig than the Icom because it insists on spending more time in for repairs than in service, with very few exceptions. This would explain the high prices for used '746s, check it out and see. lastly, how many times can they repackage a ten year old rig/concept/technology and slap Pro, Pro II, Pro III (Or Pro IV, V, VI, VIII, etc.), on a radio and say it's "new".

No, it's no contest, in my estimation it's a tossup between between the TS-590 and FT-950 and their newer technologies without even a consideration for the 'Pro III, or whatever is next in that line.

73


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K8AC on December 08, 2010, 07:29:27 AM
Hello Ruben.  I have no experience with the FT-950, so will confine my comments to the Pro III.  Please look deeper than Rob Sherwood's rankings of receivers by close-spaced IMD when making the decision.  While this can be important to some, it's certainly not the most important consideration to most of us, although the average ham who has little understanding of what IMD even is has come to judge everything on those rankings.  Rob's favorite rig and the one he uses is still the Icom IC-781, which ranks way down the IMD list. 

A couple of years ago after acquiring my first Pro III, I used it in the ARRL CW Sweepstakes contest and did run into IMD problems on 20 and 80 meters where the band was full of very strong signals.  Inserting 6 to 12 dB of attenuation eliminated that problem satisfactorily.  After discussing the problem with Mr. Sherwood, I installed the Inrad roofing filter in the Pro III (not a simple undertaking) and found that cleared up the problem for me completely, even though the filter bandwidth is in the 3-5 KHz range, unlike the narrow roofing filters in the K3 and some other newer rigs. 

As you may know, newer technology is not always significantly better.  When I sold my first Pro III, I replaced it with an Elecraft K3.  I didn't like the K3 at all and sold it after a few months.  I ended up buying another new Pro III when the last units were being cleared out of inventory here in the U.S.  I've found the Pro IIIs to be extremely reliable and the display format and operating is excellent.  Each version of the IC-756 has brought improvements and the Pro III is indeed the best of the line.  I looked closely at the IC-7600 (Pro III replacement) when it first came out and thought that the new display design was inferior to the Pro III.  The 7600 does have a roofing filter as standard equipment.

The Pro III has held its value exceptionally well in the used market and for good reason.  They have very few problems and the built-in scope works very well, although not the equal of the Elecraft P3 or an LP-Pan setup.  On the other hand, the scope is certainly superior to the ones in the Orion II and FT-5000.  Myself, I wouldn't own another transceiver that didn't have panadaptor capability that works at least as well as that of the Pro III. 

The TS-590, at least here in the U.S., is available at a slightly lower price than the Pro III.  I don't believe there are enough 590s in use yet to know anything about their reliability or firmware bugs.  All the newer rigs I've owned or followed that have upgradable firmware routinely have new bugs introduced with firmware upgrades.  Apparently, Icom does a better job of testing their firmware and the lack of ability to upgrade that in the Pro III has never been a factor. 

Another good choice for a traveling rig is the Kenwood TS-480SAT.  I've used it several times at vacation locations and was very pleased with the results.  And - the price is substantially below that of the Pro III and 590.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: NO6L on December 09, 2010, 12:44:11 AM
Okay, fine. If the Pro III is so fantastic, why is it just another re-badged Pro, for all intents and purposes. For example, you don't see TS-2000 Mk IIs or Pro IIIs. Instead, they're the same TS-2000 with some improvements and priced accordingly, LOWER. I mean if Icom wants to sell old tech I don't have a problem with that, but don't pee in my Weaties and charge me for milk. And, Ruben said "A scope is not important", so why pay for something he won't use?

I stand by what I said concerning their QA. To be specific, I know two people personally that purchased new Pro IIIs. One went back three times due to transmitter issues and the other went back several times for an assortment of concerns. The first friend went back to Yeasu and never sent anything in again, the other to Ten-Tec and Yeasu and is enjoying the same situation. Even if I didn't know about other peoples problems with Icom, these two episodes are enough for me. I can afford anything on the market and I would not touch an IC-Anything after the original '746 or '756. If they put as much effort into QA as they do with fancy-shmancy trinkets and baubles like color scopes, they'd own the market, but they don't.

'nuff said. I'm done.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K3AN on December 09, 2010, 09:27:16 AM
I suggest you wait until the Sherwood evaluation. It's December now so you probably won't be going to your "summer place" for at least the next few months. Maybe by then the Sherwood numbers and the ham magazine reviews will be published. Also, there will be more time for the 590's reliability to be determined.

If you've never used a radio with a band scope, you might want to withhold your opinion on how useful it is. Just one example: One afternoon in early December I switched my Pro 3 to the 21 MHz phone band and heard nothing. But I saw a single weak blip on the scope, up the band about 30 kHz. I QSY'ed up and there was a lonely ZL8X, repeatedly calling CQ. He hadn't even been spotted on the DX clusters yet, so I was the first to work him during that session on that band. Without the scope I might have tuned right past his frequency between his CQ calls, and never heard him.



Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K8KAS on December 09, 2010, 10:13:54 AM
The Icom is a nice and solid performer, many of my buddys use them with great results. I had a 756 Pro II and did have troubles with it three times but the guy I sold it to now 3 years later has had no problems. I like the scope on the 756 II's and III's they look and feel good and have very nice audio both RX and TX. The size is just about right for me as well. I think you will be happy with either radio, but remember the TS 590 just came out and you don't know what the review will be in 2 or 3 years on their problems. I'll take my FT1000D anyday over most of the junk out there today, 10 years old and never a wimp-er, solid as a rock as well. My TT Orion has been very good to me as well and the factory cannot be beat for owner relations, IMHO Denny K8KAS 73


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KE7FD on December 13, 2010, 09:50:15 AM
If your budget allows for either of these radios, why not consider a Flex-3000?  You're not stuck with the features with software defined radios as you are with hard-wired units so features can be added and improved.  What's more it's compact and with any number of laptops becomes not only ideal for a fixed station but great for a vacation unit as well.  Here's a link:

http://www.flex-radio.com/Products.aspx?topic=F3k_features

Good luck.

g


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K8AC on December 13, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
And what is the point of waiting for Rob Sherwood's TS-590 ratings?  I assert that 99.9% of today's hams wouldn't recognize an IMD problem if it bit them in the ass.  Making transceiver judgements purely on the ratings is nonsense.  Don't believe that?  Ask Rob what his favorite transceiver is, given that he knows all the ins and outs of the measurements and could buy anything he wants.  You might be surprised at his answer.  If you happen to live in some places in Europe or are a serious contester in the Northeast,  then the IMD rankings might indeed be significant to you.  On the other hand, you probably wouldn't be looking at a TS-590 or Pro III in that case anyway.  Both the 590 and Pro III are reasonably good transceivers in their price range.  And check out the review ratings for both in the product reviews right here on eHam.  Looks to me as if the two have the same rating - guess those folks didn't wait for the Sherwood rankings. 


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K9IUQ on December 15, 2010, 06:50:03 AM
Okay, fine. If the Pro III is so fantastic, why is it just another re-badged Pro, for all intents and purposes. For example, you don't see TS-2000 Mk IIs or Pro IIIs. Instead, they're the same TS-2000 with some improvements and priced accordingly, LOWER.

I stand by what I said concerning their QA. To be specific, I know two people personally that purchased new Pro IIIs. One went back three times due to transmitter issues
'nuff said. I'm done.

I have owned the Icom ProII, Pro III and the Kenwood 2000. The Kenwood 2000 is not in the same class as the Icoms. The Icoms are a much better radio. The Kenwood 2000 is priced lower because it is a lower class radio, also very long in the tooth..  :)

I owned the Kenwood 2000 for 3 years. The transmitter failed twice. Got rid of that turkey. I have owned many Icoms starting with the 751a. Have never had an Icom fail me. What does all this mean? Nothing. As your remarks about 2 friends Icoms failing mean nothing.

I asked Rob Sherwood last winter which radio he actually owned and used. He told me a Pro III and explained to me why......

Stan K9IUQ





Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K9IUQ on December 15, 2010, 06:55:52 AM
And what is the point of waiting for Rob Sherwood's TS-590 ratings?  I assert that 99.9% of today's hams wouldn't recognize an IMD problem if it bit them in the ass. 

100 percent true. 90 percent of the the hams reading Rob Sherwood's test results do not have a clue what the figures mean.

Stan K9IUQ




Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K9IUQ on December 15, 2010, 07:55:08 AM
shmancy trinkets and baubles like color scopes

You must be a newbie, as you are clueless when it comes to scopes and panadapters.

Ever wonder why you sit in split pileups forever? It is because of hams like me with scopes/panadapters. We know where the DX is listening.  ;D

The most important tool I have for breaking pileups is my Flex 5k panadapter. I have an advantage you do not have becuz you think of scopes as "baubles....

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: ZENKI on December 15, 2010, 03:12:36 PM
And what is the point of waiting for Rob Sherwood's TS-590 ratings?  I assert that 99.9% of today's hams wouldn't recognize an IMD problem if it bit them in the ass. 

100 percent true. 90 percent of the the hams reading Rob Sherwood's test results do not have a clue what the figures mean.

Stan K9IUQ




Yup and the other 10% of hams who understand the figures are the same ones who ignore spectral purity  issues on TX like phase noise, TX IMD and keyclicks and then go on to boast how they own the worlds best  transceivers  or radio brand. Ignorance cuts both ways  on RX and TX.

Amazing how people boast about the words best receivers and bury their heads in the sand about their favorite radio brands shocking TX IMD.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KA9O on December 19, 2010, 10:45:20 AM
shmancy trinkets and baubles like color scopes

You must be a newbie, as you are clueless when it comes to scopes and panadapters.

Ever wonder why you sit in split pileups forever? It is because of hams like me with scopes/panadapters. We know where the DX is listening.  ;D

The most important tool I have for breaking pileups is my Flex 5k panadapter. I have an advantage you do not have becuz you think of scopes as "baubles....

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K6AER on December 22, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
You did not mention what mode of operation you prefer. The reason I bring this up is the very dynamic adjacent channel selectivity being referenced on the newer transceivers are for CW with very narrow IF filters and 200Hz second IF bandwidth. If your operation is SSB at 3 KHz bandwidth many of the high dynamic range radios such as the FT-5000, K3, Flex-3000, IC7700, ect. will be greatly reduced. With wider bandwidth the first and second filter are not as sharp. Almost in no case will you encounter a S9+40dB signal next to a S1 station. When the band is alive or contests are raging you will almost never see a signal below S9. In the old days when we encountered signal overload we used the RF gain control to reduce the signal. Most hams today have no idea what the knob is for and complain that the S meter doesn't work when they use the control.

A radio that is fine on a dipole may be a basket case on a beam up high due the much higher signal levels. I would chose the radio with a good third order intercept point over selectivity. Most of your IMD is generated in the RF front end and the mixer. Be careful when the 3rd order intercept reading is spaced much wider than normal tests. It make the figure look great but no one is worried about strong signal 200 KHz away.

Band scopes are very valuable for spotting stations on a dead band, looking for empty places to call CQ and looking for a call frequency during a pile up. In addition the pan adaptor is great for seeing a 60 second history of the band operation.

I place little value in postings about radio operation and reliability. Hams load their transceivers into bad loads and blame the manufacture when the finals cook off. It is their application that was the problem. You will notice it is the entry level radios that have most of the final problems.

Points to consider in a transceiver selection are the quality of the audio from the receiver and the transmitted audio. There is a big difference from radio to radio and when using a radio for hours, a very selective receiver is worthless if it causes fatigue to your ears. Lots of radios will list their distortion at 10% at 2 watts out. You would never buy a stereo with that kind of distortion.

Ease of operation is also a large factor. Many of the newer radios fail the operator first drive test. If you need to change a radio perimeter and it takes 15 minutes searching a menu or manual, the user interface has failed. This is why many older designs become classics. The ICOM 756 Pro series is example of customer input and development when technology provided better components. I have owned the Pro-II, Pro-III and now own a 7600. The 7600 radio is very comfortable. In each case the radio improved. It was not a case of getting right the first time but having better components made available over the years.

I had a Flex-3000 and did not like the transmitter distortion nor did I care for the T/R relay noise. I did love the receiver. I still have a TS-2000 and will keep this ugly radio. It is easy to use, well built and only under the most extreme conditions will the receiver let me down. Great back up rig.

I have put together three K3’s in in each case the radio failed the quality audio test in transmit and receive. Great receiver on selectivity but the recovered audio was too strained when the volume was turned up. Transmit audio was never quite right. If your bag is CW this is a great radio.

Bottom line is it takes time to appreciate a transceiver design and when a new radio comes out you have to take the time to give it a honest evaluation. Your mode of operation has a lot to do with your satisfaction and as always the antenna makes the radio.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: WA2JJH on December 23, 2010, 02:42:32 PM
Heck for $1700bux new in the box......TS-590. If it is anything like a quieter TS-850, I would go with the newer radio.

  I owned the TS-950SDX, cannot get all the parts for the 1993 vintage rig.

The TS=590 is also software upgradable. Cannot beat the 950SDX used for about the same money. Sure is nice to use the one or two out of 8 installed xtal filters as well as the DSP.

   If you have the time, you could build a minimal K-3 for about $2200.
I have a K2 as well. I will see how much the audio DSP and other upgrades work.

    From what I understand the 590 should work as well as the TS-870 minus the ultra wide TX ability.
  Newer circuits, a 500 and 2.7kc filter to fall back on.
     Good luck and 73 DE MIKE (http://Heck for $1700bux new in the box......TS-590. If it is anything like a quieter TS-850, I would go with the newer radio.

  I owned the TS-950SDX, cannot get all the parts for the 1993 vintage rig.

The TS=590 is also software upgradable. Cannot beat the 950SDX used for about the same money. Sure is nice to use the one or two out of 8 installed xtal filters as well as the DSP.

   If you have the time, you could build a minimal K-3 for about $2200.
I have a K2 as well. I will see how much the audio DSP and other upgrades work.

    From what I understand the 590 should work as well as the TS-870 minus the ultra wide TX ability.
  Newer circuits, a 500 and 2.7kc filter to fall back on.
     Good luck and 73 DE MIKE)


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K8NDS on January 12, 2011, 01:15:44 PM
Reading these reports is kind of comical, as a few here have stated "new is not always better".
I have owned several Icom and Kenwood rigs over the years. I recently sold my TS-2000, running the ts-2000 next to my Pro III was no contest, the pro III won by a landslide on receive.
I will say that I had a chance to use the new TS-590S, I talked a friend of mine into buying one and he is a very happy camper. I would say that for the money it is probably the best buy out there right now $ for what you get. As much as I am a Icom fan, I believe that Icom messed up big time when they got a big head and made the outrageous priced rigs like the 7800. They are in deep trouble now as far as I can see. They now have to compete against the TS-590s at a fraction of the price of the 7800. Everyday now I wear twice as many TS-590s as the day before, that should tell Icom they are in trouble. I have a Pro III, if I didn't I would be a TS-590s owner by now. I have had the opportunity to use a 7800 and a Pro III right next to each other and there is definetly not anything worth $6500 more in the 7800. If Kenwood is on target for what I think is happening in their marketing department, watch out Icom!
If kenwood adds a second receiver, a pan adapter (built in), maybe a bit better receive audio, a few other bells and whistles and keeps the price below $4000 they are going to eat Icom alive. As much as I like the TS-590S, I would not buy one due to the lack of the scope, the scope grows on you and I would miss it way too much at this point. The scope saves tons of time and energy when scanning for band to band. I truly believe that Kenwood's marketing did it on purpose to gear up for the next rig which will have it all while selling a ton of TS-590S's in the mean time......Very wise marketing strategy!


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KH6AQ on January 12, 2011, 04:03:31 PM
Elecraft carved out a niche with the K3. Now Kenwood has moved into this niche with what looks to be a great rig. But what is the TS-590 missing? A dedicated CW speed knob!


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: WB2WIK on January 12, 2011, 06:25:25 PM
The Sherwood Engineering lab test reports have come out and at this point the TS-590S is the only Japanese rig in the top rankings.  Period.

The others are made by Elecraft, Flex and Ten Tec (all American).

Holy cow, when did this trend start? :D

There's nothing made by Icom, at any price point, in the top six.

Isn't that interesting? :)


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KS2G on January 13, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
WIK...

When I look at the list, I see the Yaesu FDdx-5000D at the top.



Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: IK0OZD on January 18, 2011, 02:13:09 AM
Hello friends.
I need a second HF radio for my summer QTH.
I am thinking in a new TS-590S or a used IC-756PRO3.
What do you think is the best choice?
Scoope is not the most important for me.
Receiver performance is most important for me.
Thank's a lot for your help.



ciao Ruben
i have in my shack TS 590 Elecraft  K3 ic7800 and Mark5 in this moment
have 2 separate house and shack
the 590 is in the shack with 7800
and the k3 is on the shack with mark 5


the 590 is superb rx no difference with k3 , the 590  for me is  superior respect the other 7800 and mark 5
the 590 is very great
i have 590 since last 45 day
73's
Tony
IK0OZD



Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KH6AQ on January 18, 2011, 06:05:11 AM
So the TS-590 is not quite a "K3 killer" after all, or is it?

The TS-590 is good but not as good as the K3, according to the Sherwood Engineering numbers. On the bands where it up converts it's not so good. And it does not have a CW speed knob. However, I would like to give the TS-590 a try during a 160 meter CW contest. This is my test of a radio.

$1700 for the TS-590 vs $2400 for a comparably equipped K3. If you have no use for an ATU order a K3 without one and the price comparison is $1700 vs $2100.  



Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: ZENKI on February 26, 2011, 07:52:08 PM
That might be true in terms of the raw numbers. However in the real world it means nothing.

The K3's ultimate performance can only be realized on CW because the vast majority of hams are producing shocking levels of IMD  on SSB TX, it is basically impossible to use the K3;s potential on SSB.

In most other regards the TS590S is better all round radio than the K3.  Now that the higher bands are opening up I find that my K3 drives me up the wall with all the birdies in the receiver. The moment you turn on the pre-amp the P3 is just full of birdies on all the  higher bands. When I added the second receiver the birdie problem  became much  worst. 

I hope Elecraft is working on a K4 which fixes all these issues with the K3.  The K3 is a  good accomplishment  for their first try at designing the ultimate radio. It is far from ultimate in so many areas. There is no way you could call the K3 the ultimate radio in its current form. It has so many design issues that need addressing that its not funny. There is no doubt that  the K3 excels in producing a receiver with excellent dynamic range numbers. What good is a radio that has good " numbers" when you have so many other things about its design that drives you nuts. I suppose you can make your own choices on whats important to your operating habits and thats what a free market is all about.  However I get tired of people who try and force feed you a particular brand because  their perceptions of what makes a good radio is based on a very narrow set of criteria.

To me the ultimate radio is a design which places equal emphasis on all aspects of its design and that also includes performance on both RX and TX. A Hyundai cant be a Mercedes Benz in this world, we all know this and radios are no different! I have yet to see the ultimate ham radio transceiver. Nope, current 10,000 dollar radios would not be on my shopping list simply because they lack performance, however they sure look appealing!

 





So the TS-590 is not quite a "K3 killer" after all, or is it?

The TS-590 is good but not as good as the K3, according to the Sherwood Engineering numbers. On the bands where it up converts it's not so good. And it does not have a CW speed knob. However, I would like to give the TS-590 a try during a 160 meter CW contest. This is my test of a radio.

$1700 for the TS-590 vs $2400 for a comparably equipped K3. If you have no use for an ATU order a K3 without one and the price comparison is $1700 vs $2100.  




Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N0AH on December 19, 2011, 05:27:24 PM
The speed knob is there.....you just have to access it by hitting the KEY button that gives you a chance to change the range from like 0-60..........and you can during TX......not sure what people are talking about-


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: K8JHR on December 23, 2011, 02:01:22 AM
Hey... I thought the thread was asking about the Kenwood TS-590s vs Icom 756 ProIII  ???

Should one conclude that, because no one is talking about Icom rigs any more, and the talk is all about comparing the 590 with the K3, that it is "game over" for Icom?

Seems to me the answer to the original question,  590s v.  ProIII -- is solidly in favor of the 590s.

Jut MY take... you guys have a pleasant and safe Xmas and New Year !

// K8JHR  //


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N9MXI on December 23, 2011, 08:40:43 AM
Regarding the up-conversion performance previously mentioned...

As of firmware rev 1.06 for the TS-590s, Kenwood has improved up-conversion.  Specifically, Kenwood says "Improves desensing level caused by strong out-of-passband signals on up-conversion bands".  I've not yet upgraded to 1.06, but N2IC reported the following in the TS-590 Yahoo! groups forum:

Quote
I don't have precise test equipment for measuring the improvement, but here's some observations, using just a signal generator, and my ears for detecting the start of gain reduction (desensing):
    1.05: Desensing begins at S9+10 dB
    1.06: Desensing begins at S9+45 dB
If these numbers are close to accurate, it is a huge improvement for the TS-590Son the upconversion bands.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N5RWJ on December 27, 2011, 12:48:03 PM
You better check the current eham reviews on the 590, hams are now reporting a major design problem with it.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: HB9PJT on December 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AM
What design problem?

73, Peter - HB9PJT

You better check the current eham reviews on the 590, hams are now reporting a major design problem with it.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N5RWJ on December 29, 2011, 11:13:00 AM
I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: HB9PJT on December 29, 2011, 11:31:56 AM
I own a TS-590 and it is a very good rig. No design problem. Still don't know what you mean after looking at eHam.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N5RWJ on December 29, 2011, 06:36:23 PM
I own a TS-590 and it is a very good rig. No design problem. Still don't know what you mean after looking at eHam.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.
Just read the 590 reviews before you buy


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: HB9PJT on December 30, 2011, 01:30:58 AM
Just read my posting before you write.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

I own a TS-590 and it is a very good rig. No design problem. Still don't know what you mean after looking at eHam.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.
Just read the 590 reviews before you buy


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: W8JX on December 30, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
Nothing wrong with a 590 as it is a very fine rig and well above a dated 756 pro. I will say this, you have to "learn" how to use a 590 for it to excel and if you are one that wants to just turn it on and do little more  than twisting VFO to use it you should get a simpler, older analog rig. People that might rate a 590 poorly never took time to learn how to use it properly.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: W9CW on January 01, 2012, 05:13:28 AM
I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.

Are you speaking of the ALC overshoot, or supposed low "talk power," or low output on SSB?  Be specific, don't just throw out one sentence negatives and then go away.  Interestingly, a significant number of those who complain about low peak output of SSB seem to be from Europe, with some from the USA as well.  This makes no sense.  Are all of the negative respondents using average-reading watt meters, and not high-quality peak-reading watt meters such as the Coaxial Dynamics 83000-A, Array Solutions PowerMaster II, Telepost LP-100A, etc.?

Kenwood has been very good at addressing shortcomings in the 590 with firmware upgrades.  I measure a minimum of 100W out with my peak-reading watt meter, and don't use an amp so the ALC overshoot is a moot point for me.  I "have" an amp, but it's on the shelf as I do my best to keep my neighbors happy in this tight residential area.  And, since most of my operating is on CW, I find the 590 a superlative rig.  Do I miss a band scope... yes, but not terribly so, as I no longer have any major interest in DXing or contesting.  Been there, done that many years ago!  I previously had an ICOM IC-7800v2, and I can personally attest the 590 is superior to the 7800 in the on-air receiver dynamics department, and it doesn't create a hernia every time you lift it...  ;D  I do somewhat miss the absolute rock-solid stability of the 7800's OCXO over the 590's TCXO, but then again it's still light-years ahead in stability over my older analog rigs with very decent PTO or VFO designs.  

73
Don W9CW


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N5RWJ on January 01, 2012, 01:56:22 PM
I don't own a 590, because of the eham reviews, do check them out.

Are you speaking of the ALC overshoot, or supposed low "talk power," or low output on SSB?  Be specific, don't just throw out one sentence negatives and then go away.  Interestingly, a significant number of those who complain about low peak output of SSB seem to be from Europe, with some from the USA as well.  This makes no sense.  Are all of the negative respondents using average-reading watt meters, and not high-quality peak-reading watt meters such as the Coaxial Dynamics 83000-A, Array Solutions PowerMaster II, Telepost LP-100A, etc.?

Kenwood has been very good at addressing shortcomings in the 590 with firmware upgrades.  I measure a minimum of 100W out with my peak-reading watt meter, and don't use an amp so the ALC overshoot is a moot point for me.  I "have" an amp, but it's on the shelf as I do my best to keep my neighbors happy in this tight residential area.  And, since most of my operating is on CW, I find the 590 a superlative rig.  Do I miss a band scope... yes, but not terribly so, as I no longer have any major interest in DXing or contesting.  Been there, done that many years ago!  I previously had an ICOM IC-7800v2, and I can personally attest the 590 is superior to the 7800 in the on-air receiver dynamics department, and it doesn't create a hernia every time you lift it...  ;D  I do somewhat miss the absolute rock-solid stability of the 7800's OCXO over the 590's TCXO, but then again it's still light-years ahead in stability over my older analog rigs with very decent PTO or VFO designs.  

73
Don W9CW

well Don, I think you said it all. 73


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: W9CW on January 02, 2012, 07:36:37 AM
Charles, yes I covered the specifics, but neither purported problem is a "issue" with me.  If I wanted to use my amp with the TS-590, I certainly could but I choose not to due to potential RFI problems with my neighbors.  Since it's a tube amp, the ALC overshoot, however slight it may be, wouldn't cause any problems with the 3-500Z tubes in my Heathkit SB-220.  Thus, this major problem as you imply, is a complete "non-issue" for me.

And, secondly, the "talk power" problem that you really didn't discuss, but implied, is also a "non-issue" as I get a minimum of 100W output on voice peaks either checking it with my Coaxial Dynamics peak-reading watt meter, or an oscilloscope.  Thus, I don't have any issues with my TS-590 - none.

If you choose to go with the Alinco DX-SR8T, good luck.  If you think the TS-590 has problems...  the DX-SR8T's receiver's not even close to being in the same league as the TS-590's.

Getting back to this thread's basic question:  I'm very happy with my TS-590, although I never owned a IC-756PRO3.  However, I did own the IC-756PRO3's "Big Brother" - the IC-7800, and the TS-590 is a better overall HF rig, even though it's only 100 watts rather than the 200 watts of the IC-7800.  Simply put, the TS-590's receiver is superior to that of either receiver of the two independent receivers in the IC-7800.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: N5RWJ on January 02, 2012, 12:50:06 PM
Don, I agree it has one of the best receiver you can get.,But  its a Ten-Tec  Eagle for me.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: HB9PJT on January 02, 2012, 02:10:09 PM
What I don't like with the Eagle are the poor economics. For example the VFO has only 200 steps per revolution compared to 1000 of a Kenwood. When you turn the VFO control fast then it omits some steps and moves slower. Not so comfortable to move over the bands. The antenna tuner is another story. Only one memory per band and really slow. I also do not understand why tuning rate and AGC is hold separate for every band.

Also the finish is not nice. Some labels at the front are centered some are left aligned. Why is the label "Band" abbreviated to "BAN" and "Mode" to "Mod" which is not necessary because other labels still have 4 letters (Lock, Atten, Fast, Tune)? Careless finish. It is not for me.

And the DSP functions work much better with the TS-590.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

Don, I agree it has one of the best receiver you can get.,But  its a Ten-Tec  Eagle for me.


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: WA8OLD on January 04, 2012, 12:08:33 PM
I have been researching the TS590S (and similar rigs) for well over a year, and may be ready to purchase one. I feel this will suit my needs for a HF rig for my second QTH. What power supplies would you recommend.
I have mixed feelings about switching supplies, but don't know if the companion Kenwood supply PS60 is worth the money. I have had good luck with Astron standard supplies.
If so, that's OK but recommended alternates? Feel free to give technical reasons, if you wish
Thanks es 73 WA8OLD


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KC1MK on January 08, 2012, 09:47:45 PM
I have been researching the TS590S (and similar rigs) for well over a year, and may be ready to purchase one. I feel this will suit my needs for a HF rig for my second QTH. What power supplies would you recommend.
I have mixed feelings about switching supplies, but don't know if the companion Kenwood supply PS60 is worth the money. I have had good luck with Astron standard supplies.
If so, that's OK but recommended alternates? Feel free to give technical reasons, if you wish
Thanks es 73 WA8OLD

I'm running a JPE PS30SW2 switching supply. I wrapped a couple of turns of the DC connection right at the power supply output in a clamp-on ferrite RF choke, and have only found weak birdies in the LF range (below about 300 kHz). They're very weak, and can easily be tuned away with the noise control on the power supply. Without the choke, I did have some birdies up into the 160M and 80M bands. I've only had the supply for a week or so (I was using an MFJ M4225V switching supply (lots of birdies!) and an Astron RS35M (also a good supply (I've had it about 25 years), but bulky and heavy).

73,
Jeff, KC1MK


Title: RE: TS-590S or IC-756PRO3.
Post by: KC1MK on January 11, 2012, 08:27:58 PM
A correction to my previous post: my switching power supply is actually a QJE, not a Jetstream. Very similar design and look. The QJE is about $60 cheaper (I got the QJE supply at Austin Amateur Radio Supply for $120), though I opted for it over the Jetstream because the QJE has a noise offset control (which really works very well) and it was locally available.

On an unrelated note, I found the noise source that was plaguing reception on 160 through 40 meters. Turns out it is the charger for my Asus laptop. I tried putting a few ferrite chokes on the charger leads, which reduced but did not eliminate the noise. I think possibly some chokes of different material may work better. In any event, worst-case scenario is to unplug the charger when operating on the lower bands. I use the Asus laptop for ham radio so it's on the desk by the radios. The Asus laptop itself does not cause any RFI problems. BTW, FWIW, I also have a Thinkpad on the desk, and neither it nor it's charger generate any noticeable RFI. Nor do my Macs in another room. I was glad that the RFI was from my Asus charger, not from a more difficult to track down source or the power lines. As far as RFI/electrical noise, the bands are awesomely quiet now at my location (a semi-rural location).

73,
Jeff, KC1MK