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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: VE3FDT on February 09, 2011, 08:17:11 AM



Title: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: VE3FDT on February 09, 2011, 08:17:11 AM
This morning, while I was listening on 17 m CW, I came across XT2RJA CQing. As far as I could tell he was not spotted yet; there was no pile-up volume and behaviour characteristic of the presence of "internet hams". In fact, he had a good but not hectic rate and had time to insert a full CQ here and there. The signal was borderline ESP with really deep QSB, coming in and out of the noise, and I was waiting for it to become strong enough for me to call. I have a very modest station and situations like that are quite probing: if I call too early I may not be able to hear the response on a QSB low, if I wait too long the station may get spotted (or otherwise develop a big pile-up) and I will get killed by the power/antennas crowd. In the end I did not call, he remained too weak for me to hear him well enough to justify a call; but the half an hour or so spent listening was a fertile ground for observations.

I feel justified in making an assumption that stations calling (whether making a QSO or not) were experienced hams and not the crowd of newbies, "packet rats", undeserving "no-coders" and "good-for-nothing-clueless-CBers" (other usual name calling left to reader's imagination); after all they had to actually actively listen, be familiar enough with propagation to know what and where to listen for and, last but not least, fish the DX out of the noise.

Because of this assumption I am astounded by some exhibited behaviour (and no, I will not list any call-signs):

Which part of "up" do people not understand? This is a true "oldie but goodie" that never ceases to amaze me. Forgetting to press the split button happens to everybody (yes, it has happened to me; more than once), but sometimes ignoring the "up" request obviously goes beyond a momentary lapse in concentration.

Why not wait and listen (it did not have to be long in this case; XT2RJA's operating practice was beyond reproach) instead of sending "call?" or "cl?" on the CQ frequency?

And my all-time favourite, "an enigma, wrapped in a puzzle, shrouded in mystery": why do people tune on a DX's CQ frequency?

Never mind a quick "touch-up" (not that any amount is justifiable), I mean a really long, laborious tuning. And let me get this straight: I do not think any of the tuning today (and there was quite a lot) was of a malicious QRMing kind; all "tuners" proceeded to attempt a QSO when done with their tuning.

I have no rational explanation for this so prevalent practice. None whatsoever. In fact, this behaviour seems to me to be utterly counter-productive and a serious detriment to the "tuner" himself.

By QRMing the DX in the process the offender presumably slows the DX's QSO rate thus preventing the pile-up from thinning and making his own attempt at QSO more difficult when he's done tuning and ready to call. To play a "devil's advocate": why not quickly figure out the pile-up pattern (not really needed: almost always the pile-up is up) and go in the opposite direction (down) a couple of kHz, tune up and come back to make your attempt? And no, I do not believe that offenders think that tuning precisely on the DX's frequency makes a difference in their signal's efficiency; it would not and they must realize that in most cases they end up not calling there anyway, but a few kHz off.

So here is my request to the community: please realize that I am in no way trying to defend any on-air tuning, but please help me understand why it is mostly done in a manner that seems not only so malign (and irritating!) to others, but also so self-defeating to the offender?

Please answer this question for me: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: W5FYI on February 09, 2011, 08:28:31 AM
I think they do it because they know the DX station is "listening up" (off his calling frequency), so their tuning up on his calling frequency won't bother him, and gets them close enough to his "up" frequency for tune-up purposes.  I'm guessing this is done mostly by lids who don't understand, or even care to learn, how their transmitters and antennas work.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: N3OX on February 09, 2011, 08:34:08 AM
Please answer this question for me: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?

Such behavior is fundamentally selfish and shows lack of critical thinking about the effects of the behavior on others.

We might consider the following :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_Personality_Disorder#Psychopathy

I think that it's important to avoid glibly labeling people as mentally ill just because we're frustrated with their behavior.  But I think that it's well established that a small percentage of people appear to be fundamentally incapable of calculating how their actions affect others.

The estimated percentages for such behavior (0.5%? 1%) are probably about right to make sure there are a couple in a big pileup.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: KH2BR on February 09, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
Life is short. Turn the knob and drop it.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: W7ETA on February 09, 2011, 02:26:48 PM
DAM if I know.

You'd have to have someone who does that tell you why.

I've always guessed that it is childish and mean spirited?

Fortunately, I don't let it get to me.

If DXing was easy, one would have them all worked in a year.

Best from Tucson
Bob



Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: N0SYA on February 09, 2011, 05:15:47 PM
why are all the dx stas on the national tuneup freq?


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: WG8Z on February 09, 2011, 08:18:46 PM
Lack of intelligence?


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: KE4JOY on February 10, 2011, 10:00:28 AM
Meh there everywhere blatantly intentional.

Last night I listened to the Maritime Mobile net on 20 and everytime the net called for check ins on comes the carrier. The carrier appeared only after the call for check ins while net control wast listening.

Of course they just ignored it and the net functioned fine and the QRMer seemed to give up eventually. That is probably the best approach to take.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: AD4U on February 18, 2011, 08:28:13 AM
I have been "listening" since the 1950's and hamming since the 1960's.  This poor behavior is nothing new.

I guess it is kinda like the people who "get off" by writing computer viruses and infecting the WWW.  No matter which hobby you enjoy, there are always some who like to screw it up for everybody else.

They are probably the ones who liked to torture animals when they were little.

Dick  AD4U


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: K2FOX on February 18, 2011, 09:48:39 AM
A dummy load would be my choice, not tuning on the air.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: AE4RV on February 18, 2011, 10:53:03 AM
A dummy load would be my choice, not tuning on the air.

And an added benefit, the dummy load is much faster and easier to tune than an antenna: win/win.   ;)



Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: KE4JOY on February 18, 2011, 11:08:50 AM
Well if your like me you 'tune' or peak the xmitter into the dummy load but you still have adjust the tuner to match the antenna.

But its not really that difficult to listen a little first and not hard at all to move up/down to find a clear spot to tune.

Done right the 'on air' tuning only takes a few seconds.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: AE4RV on February 18, 2011, 11:15:11 AM
Well if your like me you 'tune' or peak the xmitter into the dummy load but you still have adjust the tuner to match the antenna.

But its not really that difficult to listen a little first and not hard at all to move up/down to find a clear spot to tune.

Done right the 'on air' tuning only takes a few seconds.

Yep, agreed. My first rig had tube finals and my dummy load saw quite a bit of use but now it sits on a shelf.  My automatic antenna tuner is very low power out and quick, but I still move to a quiet frequency before using it.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: KE3WD on February 18, 2011, 04:20:17 PM
Well, there is absolutely no need to have to tune exactly to the freq anyway. 

Move a few KC's away, tune the damn thing and then turn the big knob back to the freq. 


Won't change enough to throw a stick at. 

Also practice tuning such that you can do it in less time.  The LIDS who tune up on the calling freq also seem to tune for a loooooooooooooong time.  Makes me feel for their finals, it does. 
The length of some of 'em makes me think that they are indeed engaging in malicious interference rather than just tuning up. 


73


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: VE3YF on February 22, 2011, 03:33:12 PM
Hi Dariusz:

I cant think that someone's antenna is that narrow banded that they must tune up that close or on top of the DX Station, moving off 10kcs is not going to really make any difference in your signal.

I can't even think about the amount of qso's I have lost because I never got the DX stations report due to someone throwing a carrier. Alot of wasted time trying to recontact the DX station because I never got his report due to someone tuning up and then have the DX station saying "worked before" or "you are in the log".

Oh well... I look at it from the aspect...It is only a hobby and when frustration sets in just either spin the VFO or turn the rig off.

73 De Mike
VE3YF


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: N3OX on February 22, 2011, 03:56:46 PM
Well, there is absolutely no need to have to tune exactly to the freq anyway.  

And even if there were, these idiots are very often tuning on the DX station's transmit frequency while the DX station is working SPLIT.

I don't advocate tuning up in the middle of the pileup either, but it's what you should do if you have an irrational compulsion to be tuned up where you're going to be calling ;D

Sadly, all the solutions to this problem have to presuppose that the person doing this is actually capable of recognizing that they're causing a problem.  That's really unlikely.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: VE3FDT on February 23, 2011, 05:50:41 AM
Just a quick summary of responses as I interpret them.

Tuning on someone's CQ frequency happens for any or all of the following reasons:
1. Malice.
2. Ignorance.
3. Intrinsic inability to think (a.k.a. stupidity).
4. Reasons unknown and unfathomable.

Clearly the consensus is that nothing constructive can be done about it, hence the suggested course of action should be:
1. Ignore it.
2. Disregard it.
3. Forget it.

Last but not least. The Oscar for the best performance in comedy goes to N0SYA for his "why are all the DX stations on the national tune-up frequency?"

Thanks to all for your responses. But truth be told, I am as ignorant on the subject as when I first asked the question.


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: W5DQ on February 23, 2011, 04:20:27 PM
A lot of these what I like to call T.U.T.s (Tune Up Turkeys) think if they don't get that amplifier tuned down to a gnat's ass exactly on the freq where they want to use it, then it won't work right. Many seem to think (by their idiotic actions) that their amplifier final tank circuitry has zero bandwidth therefore requiring spot on tune ups. I agree with your suggestion of pop down the band a bit outside the active bandwidth, listen and do a quick tuneup. Should take less than 10 seconds to completely preset and tune the amp after a band change. To expedite my operating, I have my starting points for each band/mode my amp covers on a small chart. I preset the LOAD and PLATE to the chart and then if necessary I can tweak the controls during the first couple of calls to the DX in the pileup. No one is bothered and life is good.

One other thing beside the TUTs that I completely abhor is the damn retarded jackass's that think they are God's gift to ham radio by policing the DX frequency for any operating discrepancies. These so called "Freq Police" do more harm than good in most instances and should have their licenses cancelled and they themselves fined by the FCC.  >:(


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: K0BG on February 23, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
The biggest problem is the dummy load between the ears of far too many amateurs. Umm, maybe I should say appliance operators, rather than amateurs!?


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: G3RZP on February 24, 2011, 01:48:47 AM
K0BG

Well said!


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: K5JZ on March 01, 2011, 03:55:14 AM
Breaking it down to fundamentals... some people are just arseh*les. You meet them in everyday life... and unfortunately... some are hams.

73,
George K5JZ


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: N0SYA on March 02, 2011, 04:53:53 PM
http://politicalmonkey2010.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/farside.jpg


Title: RE: Why do people tune on the DX station's CQ frequency?
Post by: AE4RV on March 02, 2011, 06:13:55 PM
http://politicalmonkey2010.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/farside.jpg

Very nice.