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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: KA5N on March 09, 2011, 07:37:08 AM



Title: Use of words?
Post by: KA5N on March 09, 2011, 07:37:08 AM
When did "loose" become the spelling for the word:"lose" ?  Loose means unrestrained while lose means to no longer posses something. 
When did "there" become a stand-in for "their or they're"?
Why are "site, sight, and cite" used interchangeably?
While anyone can make a typo or make a spelling error many of the mistakes that appear on
these forums indicate a failure in education (and this permeates the internet and is not just
on eHam). 
On TV these days Less has replaced fewer almost completely (fewer is for things that can be
counted as fewer days and less is for things that aren't countable as less mashed potatoes.
How long will it be when English is no longer spoken in the USA?  (It is pretty much not
written already).
Allen


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KG4RUL on March 09, 2011, 08:06:26 AM
WEEK  when they meant   WEAK


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: AE4RV on March 09, 2011, 08:17:45 AM
Movie recommendation: Idiocracy


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N0YXB on March 09, 2011, 08:25:15 AM
"Alot" or "allot" for the words "a lot".  Alot is not a word, unless you're referring to a village in India.

Vince


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KF5ER on March 09, 2011, 08:51:12 AM
How about 'Armature radio'.  Incorrectly spelled or just plain dumb?


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 09, 2011, 09:24:14 AM
I have some sympathy for bad typing - I am certainly very guilty of that most of the time. However, I would disagree on one point - 'American' is not 'English', or perhaps I should say that 'American English' is not 'Queen's English'. Which can explain spelling differences.

But the phenomena of which Allen writes is by no means confined to the US. There seems to have been a general 'dumbing down' of education in the Western world in thae last 30 or so years. One thing I do find irritating is when I do a paper for conference and submit it for employer's approval, it always gets changed to use short sentences, and there is no longer correct English punctuation used with colons and semicolons.

The real 'hackle raiser; is the joining of sentences with commas!


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KJ4FUU on March 09, 2011, 10:17:42 AM
I never mix up "loose" and "lose". However, due to old age, I occasionally at least start to use the incorrect word out of "there", "their", and "they're".

Part of it may be an addiction to autocorrect in word processing programs. I grew up without them, and had to learn to spell.

One strange things about my spelling is that I usually spell out "catalogue" rather than the more common "catalog". I'm not sure why. I'm not even sure how "right" it is, I guess I'll go look it up and see if it's something I have to work on.

That last sentence reminds me: A lot of people interchange "its" and "it's".

I guess I'll start correcting people when I get a little older and more curmudgeonly. Or, if they make a really stupid argument and I want something extra to blast them with.  ;D

-- Tom


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W3LK on March 09, 2011, 10:56:28 AM
Ditto to all the previous posts.

My personal gripe is people who put an apostrophe in plurals. With one or two exceptions, the apostrophe is only used to indicate possession.

Then again, since the school systems have essentially abandoned the teaching of spelling and grammar in the elementary grades, what can the intelligent and literate writer expect.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: VE4EGL on March 09, 2011, 11:10:20 AM
My personal gripe is people who put an apostrophe in plurals. With one or two exceptions, the apostrophe is only used to indicate possession.

Oh, I thought it meant "look out, here comes an S!"  ;D

My pet peeve is when "your" reading "you're" email and it looks like this. 


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K3GM on March 09, 2011, 11:18:39 AM
Irregardless guy's, FWIW I like this one alot to:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteers be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KJ6EAD on March 09, 2011, 11:53:50 AM
I can't respond to Alan's post since he misspelled possess and is not good enough for me now. I'm not a grammar nazi but the frequent use by some of text messaging abbreviations that leave out all vowels is particularly annoying.

Lazy speech and writing don't conserve bandwidth or time; instead they take more to communicate the same idea or fail to communicate it at all.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K7NI on March 09, 2011, 03:34:31 PM
I'll admit that it bothers me when people use then instead of than or quite instead of quiet.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N3OX on March 09, 2011, 07:48:21 PM
Alot is explained here:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N2EY on March 09, 2011, 08:09:25 PM
While anyone can make a typo or make a spelling error many of the mistakes that appear on
these forums indicate a failure in education (and this permeates the internet and is not just
on eHam). 

The misuse of apostrophes is the worst. Right up there with all caps for "HAM", as if it were an acronym.

I think I know where all this sloppiness comes from. I don't think it's a failure of education; these mistakes are not new. What's new is seeing them.

Before the internet, sloppy stuff rarely made it into print. There were editors and proofreaders looking out for all these mistakes, and either fixing them or sending the mistakes back for the author to fix. Or they simply didn't publish something because the mistakes were too bad.

The result was that you just didn't see mistakes like "loose/lose" more than once in a blue moon - if ever.

The Internet allows almost anybody to post almost anything on almost any subject - usually without any editing, review, proofreading or other control. So you see a lot more mistakes.

Worse, people see those mistakes and don't recognize them. Some actually lose the ability to tell the difference, because they see the uncorrected errors so often.

73 de Jim, N2EY-


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KG6AF on March 09, 2011, 09:05:11 PM
Dave Barry tackles apostrophes and my personal pet peeve, inappropriate quotation marks:

-----

Dear Mister Language Person: What is the purpose of the apostrophe?

A. The apostrophe is used mainly in hand-lettered small-business signs to alert the reader that an "S" is coming up at the end of a word, as in: WE DO NOT EXCEPT PERSONAL CHECK'S, or: NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ITEM'S. Another important grammar concept to bear in mind when creating hand-lettered small- business signs is that you should put quotation marks around random words for decoration, as in "TRY" OUR HOT DOG'S, or even TRY "OUR" HOT DOG'S.

-----

In many instances, TRY OUR "HOT DOGS" is completely appropriate, and even useful as a warning.



Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K7KBN on March 09, 2011, 09:33:46 PM
Yeasu.

Or Yaseau (I've seen it both ways).

FCOL, it's right there on the front panel of the radio!

Imply/infer.  Convince/persuade.  Persons/people.  Accept/except.  Affect/effect.

73 (not 73's)
Pat K7KBN


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N8CMQ on March 09, 2011, 09:35:40 PM
TNX OM E 73S CUL

Is texting so new, and have abbreviations just started to bother people?
When I was only operating CW, we knew who was on a keyboard, VS a straight key by their verbosity.
Spelling and grammar are important, however, in most casual communications they take a back seat to efficient speed of thought transfer.
If the fact that someone is spelling poorly, or using poor grammar is upsetting, maybe we should relax and remember, they are not getting paid to write.
So when I am using a straight key, I will continue using abbreviations, and when typing, I'll try to use my better English...


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: WB6DGN on March 09, 2011, 11:44:44 PM
GOOD GRIEF!  There really ARE other people who notice!  You have no idea how much pent up frustration this post has released.  Just one correction, though.  The post below is doubtless correct.  It merely describes the a group of HAMS (intentional) who are spinning out of control.
Tom DGN 

How about 'Armature radio'.  Incorrectly spelled or just plain dumb?


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 10, 2011, 01:22:09 AM
'Armature radio' .That's a radio going round and round, presumably while commutating!


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: AB2RC on March 10, 2011, 05:11:27 AM
Movie recommendation: Idiocracy

No radio content, but a great & funny (and more or less unknown) movie


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N2EY on March 10, 2011, 05:14:49 AM
TNX OM E 73S CUL

I think it should be TNX OM ES 73 CUL

Is texting so new, and have abbreviations just started to bother people?

It's not about texting; I understand the limitations of the keypad and message length. Abbreviations and shortcuts have their place. I consider the intelligent use of abbreviations, prosigns and Q signals to be one of the marks of the truly good CW operator - on CW.

What I and others are on about is the apparent increase in mistakes of word use and punctuation. Many of those mistakes take more keystrokes than doing it the right way! ("Loose" is longer than "lose", the all-caps "HAM" requires the shift key, etc.).

When I was only operating CW, we knew who was on a keyboard, VS a straight key by their verbosity.
Spelling and grammar are important, however, in most casual communications they take a back seat to efficient speed of thought transfer.

Doing it the right way is more efficient IMHO. See above examples.


If the fact that someone is spelling poorly, or using poor grammar is upsetting, maybe we should relax and remember, they are not getting paid to write.

I think people should try to do things the right way regardless of whether they're being paid. In the case of writing, it shows respect for oneself and for the reader. What's most aggravating is when it becomes apparent that the writer not only doesn't know (ignorance) but doesn't care (apathy/disrespect).

Here's an analogy:

Suppose I invite you to my house for burgers and hot dogs on the grill. And you find that the burgers are dry and overdone, while the hot dogs are barely warm. It turns out I didn't even try to cook them properly, I just tossed everything on the grill and hoped for the best.

Would that be OK because I wasn't being paid to cook?  

Some years back I encountered a ham online whose spelling, grammar and punctuation were truly awful. He'd spell the same word incorrectly three different ways in the same paragraph! It took serious effort to read his stuff.

People would ask, beg, plead for him to use a spellchecker, but he didn't. After repeated questions, it came out that he knew his stuff was awful all along. He didn't use a spellchecker or grammar checker because it would slow him down too much. He said that his time was too valuable for him to waste it fixing up his many errors. He said his words and thoughts were so important that the reader should do the fixing.

The response from readers was that we simply stopped reading his stuff. It was just too much work, and why bother when the writer didn't respect the reader enough to even try to get it right?

73 de Jim, N2EY  


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KH6AQ on March 10, 2011, 05:40:44 AM
Recieve rather than receive.

I before E except after C and sometimes in words like Neighbor and Weigh.

The poor spelling and poor grammar here at eham.net shows that some folks don't care. If they don't care enough to write correctly I can't care enough to answer their question.

They often post a semi-illiterate question with convoluted logic then disappear forever as hams take their time to be helpful and answer the ambiguous question.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W3LK on March 10, 2011, 07:07:45 AM
And then there are the folks who don't know the difference between ADVISE and ADVICE. :(

Advice is what one gives or receives; advise is the act of doing so.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 10, 2011, 07:12:53 AM
Recommended reading is 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' by Lynn Truss.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W5FYI on March 10, 2011, 08:01:56 AM
The best advice about my apostrophes came from an editor I worked for. He said, "Treat them like power tools; if you don't know how to use them, it's best to leave them alone."


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W3LK on March 10, 2011, 12:40:34 PM
Recommended reading is 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' by Lynn Truss.

Great Book. I laughed myself silly the first time I read it.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W3LK on March 10, 2011, 12:43:09 PM
The best advice about my apostrophes came from an editor I worked for. He said, "Treat them like power tools; if you don't know how to use them, it's best to leave them alone."

I like that analogy.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: NO2A on March 10, 2011, 02:22:33 PM
Here`s something that really gripes me on the internet. People who WrItE LiKe ThIs FoR An EnTiRe PaRaGrApH! (I think they call it ebonics. I call it stupid). So much for edgemecation... :D


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K7KBN on March 10, 2011, 04:51:15 PM
Another couple that just occurred to me:

a/an... "I have a amplifier...".  Vowel sound immediately after the article, use "an".

an/and... "I have and amplifier...".  Why the "d"?


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KN7F on March 10, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
Until my dad passed away, I was the world's second worst speller.  But that is what spell checkers are for. And, "When all else fails", ask the wife.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: AC2RC on March 10, 2011, 06:31:58 PM
When the 'non-word'  co-conspirator gets into the dictionary you know all is lost.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: W3LK on March 10, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
One more ...

People who don't know the difference between SALE and SELL.

There was a post earlier this evening by a gentleman who said he had an item he was going to SALE. :(



Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K7KBN on March 10, 2011, 08:35:06 PM
Until my dad passed away, I was the world's second worst speller.  But that is what spell checkers are for. And, "When all else fails", ask the wife.

The problem with spell checkers is that they can't see how the word is being used.  If a word is spelled correctly, the s/c gives it a pass even though it's the WRONG word (to/too/two, or their/they're/there, or its/it's, or affect/effect, or your/you're ...).  These words are all spelled correctly; the trick is to know which word to use at a particular time.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 11, 2011, 02:56:45 AM
'Yaesu' is actually a district of Tokyo.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: K1CJS on March 11, 2011, 04:54:31 AM
....Then again, since the school systems have essentially abandoned the teaching of spelling and grammar in the elementary grades, what can the intelligent and literate writer expect.

Timeless.  This one sentence sums it up nicely.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 11, 2011, 07:06:26 AM
To the above post, the modern answer is probably 'Whatever'.

With the quality of education in the the West these days, there is no wonder that the other economies are outperforming us. The UK is at least as bad, if not worse, than the US in this respect.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: N2EY on March 11, 2011, 09:09:27 AM
....Then again, since the school systems have essentially abandoned the teaching of spelling and grammar in the elementary grades, what can the intelligent and literate writer expect.

Timeless.  This one sentence sums it up nicely.

Maybe the school systems where you live have given up those things, but not around here. The kids I know don't make the kinds of grammar/spelling/punctuation/capitalization mistakes you see all the time on eham. I know; I see their work all the time.

Then again, the people making most of those mistakes here on eham aren't in elementary school. They're a lot older.

You're right about "timeless", though. Complaining about how dumb the next generation has been going on forever.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: G3RZP on March 11, 2011, 09:44:07 AM
Marconi was a poor student who flunked a lot of exams......so you can't always tell if the new generation are really hopeless!


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: KC6YFR on March 12, 2011, 08:07:04 PM
I can't speak for others but I did teach English for a number of years and always taught grammar and spelling. Part of the problem is that there are at least two Englishes, one is written and the other spoken. You can get along just fine in the spoken without knowing anything about spelling. Grammar's another matter. "Me and my friend..." clearly is a grammar problem.
As for education in general, it's my opinion that we don't have a crisis in education, but a crisis in parenting. Given who is coming to school with all the myriad social problems IMHO the schools are doing very well.
Just my two cents.


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: WB6DGN on March 17, 2011, 01:32:47 AM
Quote
...but I did teach English for a number of years and always taught grammar and spelling. Part of the problem is that there are at least two Englishes,...

Englishes??????????

...versions of English...
...iterations of English...
          BUT
...Englishes...???







Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: WB6DGN on March 17, 2011, 01:36:37 AM
Quote
Marconi was a poor student who flunked a lot of exams......

Seems I've read somewhere that he was a rather ill tempered, mercenary sort.  If true, maybe that explains it?


Title: RE: Use of words?
Post by: WB6DGN on March 17, 2011, 01:53:49 AM
Quote
"Me and my friend..." clearly is a grammar problem.

A good rule of thumb:  Any time the speaker (or writer) places himself first in a sentence (ME and my friend...), it is not good grammar.  The correct phrasing would be "My friend and I..."  That simple rule covers a lot of "mileage".
There's another simple rule to correctly choose "me" vs. "I"..  For example, in the sentence, My friend and me walked down the hill. OR My friend and I walked down the hill.  Make the sentence singular; I walked down the hill.  Not, Me walked down the hill.  The correct choice becomes much more obvious.
Tom DGN