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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: K3ZL on April 01, 2011, 11:52:04 AM



Title: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K3ZL on April 01, 2011, 11:52:04 AM
What is your opinion as to which of these is the one to use, in terms of ease of use, compatibility with computer logging software, security and awards?  Also, which is most used world wide? (this might be a good topic for a poll, but for now I would be interested in your thoughts)


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: N3QE on April 01, 2011, 12:25:40 PM
LOTW participation is very high among contesters and DXpeditions.

It's the only one you mention, that counts for WAS or DXCC. You'll likely be able to get to WAS or mostway to DXCC in a single good contest weekend in fact.

Setting it up security-wise is a bit awkward and cumbersome compared to the others. But the others don't count for WAS or DXCC :-)


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: W0GLB on April 01, 2011, 01:24:35 PM
If I was only going to use one, it would be LOTW, for the reason N3QE states.  But the fact is, if you are using a computer based logging program, you can do all three with a few mouse clicks.  That way, you have remote backups for your logs in three locations, and you can participate for ARRL, eQSL, and CQ awards, at very little or no cost.  HRD just incorporated LOTW uploads and downloads in its program (automatic eQSL has been part of it for a while).  I think QRZ is probably the most accessed site, but not necessarily its (recently implemented) log.

73, Gordon


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KG4RUL on April 01, 2011, 07:20:41 PM
Paper in hand is the ONLY way to go!   ;D


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on April 02, 2011, 12:04:09 AM
This is an easy question to answer!

If you want ARRL Awards -  use LOTW.
If you want ease of use, electronic picture QSL cards and a lot of users - use eQSL.
If you are a Mac user or hate microsoft and love UNIX - use QRZ.com.
If you are a sentimental fool like myself and paper your walls with memorabilia - use paper qsl cards and the bureau.

73s


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KJ4FUU on April 04, 2011, 06:26:02 AM
My order of preference:

1.) Paper QSLs (yes, I'm weird in other ways as well, like I love to operate QRP)
2.) LoTW (I do this, but I still like paper)
3.) eQSL (I confirm contacts, but generally don't log mine in first)
4.) QRZ (Again, I confirm contacts, but generally don't log mine in first)

I realize that some people make too many contacts for paper to be practical. I generally check QRZ to see if the other party does QSL by mail before sending a card, and then, unless told otherwise, I send an SASE or SAE + IRC or green stamps. When I did the VA QSO Party, I found a few on QRZ who don't QSL at all (boo!). At my level of activity, mail is no problem for me.

73,

-- Tom


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KA5N on April 04, 2011, 07:58:27 AM
As for as hams who DO NOT!!! QSL, there is a trick I heard about in the dark ages (1950-60 era).  The ham who wanted a QSL had blank QSL's made up and send them to the other station along with IRC's, green stamps or foreign postage for return.  The DX station was supposed to fill in the blank card with his Callsign, date, time etc. and mail it back in the preaddressed envelope.  I suppose if you were into it you could actually make a QSL card
for the DX station to ease farther his effort.
I can't give you any information on how well the scheme worked.  I suppose it might work better than repeated standard mailings for recalcitrant QSL'ers.
I know one thing, if you could use eQSL's for DXCC, there would be a lot more people on the honor roll.
Oh well
Allen


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KB3TXH on April 04, 2011, 08:50:11 AM
Guess I should chime in as well. I send a paper QSL to pretty much everyone I work the first time.
I do it because I like to receive QSLs, and I hope that by sending one, I will receive one.
If I don't receive one back, I don't get upset because I still had the pleasure of talking to a new contact.

I don't make a lot of contacts, 4 or 5 a week, so mail costs are not a problem for me.
I dislike contests, would rather talk to a stranger for an hour than work 50 rare DXs, and am not very interested in awards, so I am probably the odd man here.
Someday my QSL box may be full, and I will look at things differently. We will see.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K3ZL on April 04, 2011, 04:18:58 PM
I got a QSL in the mail this afternoon.  It was from Montana on 80 meters, which I needed for my 5BWAS.  I was just as happy to get that QSL as I was when I got my first one as a novice in 1963.  Advice given earlier on this topic to upload my HRD to all three sounds right to me.  But I still like to get those cards.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KG4LMZ on April 07, 2011, 06:22:18 AM
I upload to all three, and I've got a batch of physical cards ready to go out as I figure out how many IRCs or greenstamps to include in the foreign ones.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K7KBN on April 07, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
I send my outgoing DX cards to the ARRL bureau and let them take advantage of mass mailing.  Seems to work just fine.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KH6DC on April 15, 2011, 06:05:32 PM
My personal choice is LOTW. 

BUT... since other contacts do participate in LOTW, I also use eQSL, ARRL Buro/direct QSL/SAE/paper snail mail method.  I've made over 140 QSOs and enter everything immediately into TQSL (adi format) then upload to LOTW and eQSL.  In LOTW, 140 QSOs and only 41 confirmed meaning only 41 of the 140 uses LOTW.  In eQSL I have 53 confirmed (total including DX and stateside QSOs).  I have about 30 QSL cards.

I prefer LOTW because it's free to use and no postage required.

73 Delwyn KH6DC


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K3ZL on April 17, 2011, 08:04:06 PM
My personal choice is LOTW. 

 

73 Delwyn KH6DC
Question about LOTW:  If I periodically upload my entire log, will LOTW ignore qso's that have already uploaded, or will it double list them?  I am using HRD, and it seems that it is easier to upload the entire log than to just upload recent entries.  Tnx


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: NI0C on April 18, 2011, 05:43:38 AM
Quote
Question about LOTW:  If I periodically upload my entire log, will LOTW ignore qso's that have already uploaded, or will it double list them?  I am using HRD, and it seems that it is easier to upload the entire log than to just upload recent entries.  Tnx

LoTW will ignore the duplicates-- but ARRL prefers that people refrain from resending entire logs due to the time that it takes up on their system (the system is getting pretty busy these days!)

My logging program (DXBase) has a "Wizard" feature to select which QSO's to include in an output .adi file, so I only enter new QSO's into LoTW, sometimes just a few at a time.

With regard to the original question, I wonder why QRZ decided to add the "logbook" feature to its site.  I don't find it of any value.  I use both eQSL and LoTW, and paper QSL's, of course. 

73,
Chuck  NI0C


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KC0SHZ on April 18, 2011, 02:46:38 PM
Paper is the true way of doing it if you are not some mega station contester.

Think about your first contact.  Did that first QSL card get you?  Mine has pride of place as card 1 of my three albums.  My contacts from eQSL are forgotten.  My contacts from LOTW don't get acknowledged as I am not on it.

As eQSL is not recognized by the ARRL for WAS and other awards, I dropped it. 

I still like mailing the cards and I still like getting them.  Paper is the way for me.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KJ1D on April 18, 2011, 05:09:14 PM
I use eQSL and paper QSL cards. Never liked LoTW. But that is just me. My favorite is the paper card. Nothing like getting a new card in the mail.
Try them all and see which works best for you.

73
Richard


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: NI0C on April 18, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
Sure, I like paper cards-- they're the best confirmations.  They're also expensive to pursue.  I've got albums; I've got QSL's on the wall; and I also have 6-7 shoe boxes full of QSL's.  I've gotten to the point where, unless its a new one on 160m or a new zone on a band, I'd just as soon have the LoTW confirmation.  I'm by no means a "mega station contester."   

If you're pursuing any or all of the ARRL awards, you can't beat LoTW for speed, accuracy, and simplicity.  Anyone interested in the multi-band, multi-mode DXCC awards is working with a handicap without LoTW. 

I joined eQSL when I found out that (under certain conditions) eQSL's are applicable towards some of the CQ awards, such as WAZ.  I also enjoy downloading some of the more creative eQSL images, and displaying them in a digital picture frame, along with scanned images of some of my favorite paper cards. 

73,
Chuck  NI0C 


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K3ZL on April 18, 2011, 05:49:32 PM


I still like mailing the cards and I still like getting them.  Paper is the way for me.

I agree with you.  I watch the mailbox for QSLs just as much as I did as a novice in 1963.  That said, I began logging with HRD about a year ago, and even added all of my confirmed stateside and DX contacts so that I would have an electronic, easy to access way of knowing what I have accomplished in way of qualifying for DXCC, 5BWAS, etc.  By the way, I still keep a paper log also.  Some habits an old guy like me has are hard to give up. Cheers to everyone on this topic.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: N0ZNA on April 27, 2011, 05:25:58 PM
I use paper and eqsl...lotw looks to much of a hassel for me.73s de JW


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KB0ASQ on April 28, 2011, 04:56:46 AM
I am lazy :) I use eqsl and LOTW and HRDLog since it is automated.  I would probably use QRZ's log, but I haven't taken the time to see if I can upload it automatically.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KG4LMZ on April 28, 2011, 06:00:33 AM
I am lazy :) I use eqsl and LOTW and HRDLog since it is automated.  I would probably use QRZ's log, but I haven't taken the time to see if I can upload it automatically.

I don't know about automatically, but subscribers to QRZ.com can upload ADIF files to their QRZ logbook.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K3ZL on April 28, 2011, 11:14:22 AM
QRZ's log seems to me to be the one with the best interface.  Problem is will ARRL recognize it?  Their awards are the ones that most interest me.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: N0ZNA on April 28, 2011, 12:48:44 PM
i looked at lotw and changed my mind,will use paper qsls....and eqsl ...i been using both so why change it...73s de n0zna/John


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: AE4RV on April 28, 2011, 03:48:28 PM
i looked at lotw and changed my mind,will use paper qsls....and eqsl ...i been using both so why change it...73s de n0zna/John

Well, you asked. The reason to change it, as has already been mentioned,  LOTW is good for chasing ARRL awards without dealing with paper, stamps, money and waiting. I never thought I'd get a DXCC until recently and am having a great time pursuing it. I'm going to get it 95% paper-free if I can.

I'm 98% done with my traditional paper-QSL WAS-CW but I signed up for LOTW to work on my first DXCC. Going to save a lot of time and money. I do wish LOTW adoption was higher...

73, Geoff



Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: W5DQ on April 28, 2011, 04:26:18 PM
I am lazy :) I use eqsl and LOTW and HRDLog since it is automated.  I would probably use QRZ's log, but I haven't taken the time to see if I can upload it automatically.

I don't know about automatically, but subscribers to QRZ.com can upload ADIF files to their QRZ logbook.

As far as I have seen, the QRZ Logbook is manual entry or manual ADIF upload. I haven't found anything outmatic about it yet. I upload to it every once in a while to keep it up to date - which I am behind on come to think about it.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: MAGNUM257 on April 28, 2011, 04:50:45 PM
Paper in hand is the ONLY way to go!   ;D

Agreed. It's not the same without that qsl card coming in the mail...


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K4JH on May 03, 2011, 06:43:43 AM
Paper is the true way of doing it if you are not some mega station contester.

Think about your first contact.  Did that first QSL card get you?  Mine has pride of place as card 1 of my three albums.  My contacts from eQSL are forgotten.  My contacts from LOTW don't get acknowledged as I am not on it.

Why are you not on LOTW?

I understand your point on paper QSLs, I still like getting them, and I send them for every contact with a new station, but I still use LOTW.

Keep in mind sending paper QSL cards can get expensive, LOTW usage is free and it counts towards ARRL awards.

73 de W6VMS


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: W5DQ on May 03, 2011, 09:25:24 AM
Paper is the true way of doing it if you are not some mega station contester.

Think about your first contact.  Did that first QSL card get you?  Mine has pride of place as card 1 of my three albums.  My contacts from eQSL are forgotten.  My contacts from LOTW don't get acknowledged as I am not on it.

Why are you not on LOTW?

I understand your point on paper QSLs, I still like getting them, and I send them for every contact with a new station, but I still use LOTW.

Keep in mind sending paper QSL cards can get expensive, LOTW usage is free and it counts towards ARRL awards.

73 de W6VMS

W6VMS,

Not throwing stones here but IMHO, one fact still remains that alot of users of LOTW either are unaware of or fail to pass the real underlying facts about LOTW as indicated in their statements such as "LOTW usage is free and it counts towards ARRL awards". While the usage of LOTW is free to upload and receive matching QSOs in the database for QSL credit, those QSL credits in and amoung themselves are relatively useless alone. The use of those QSLs towards applying for awards requires that the applying LOTW account holder BUY those QSLs for use in the award application. Now granted, while there is money involved in either method- LoTW or cards, the LOTW is much cheaper than going direct just to receive the QSL 'point' towards an award.

I, like many others, use LOTW for awards and for those contacts I wish to receive a hard card from, go either the direct route or via the buro. Also while I do upload my QSOs to eQSL strictly as a service to those that desire to get QSLs that way, I do not participate in the QSL process on the receiving side of eQSL as I get way too many QSOs in my Inbox there that I have to reply to as NOT IN LOG. I do try and keep a meticulous logbook and although I could see an occasional error creeping in, I cannot realistically see that many errors happening only via eQSL and not think the overall system is ineffective in its underlying processes.

Just some fuel for the 'flame'  ;)

Gene W5DQ


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K4JH on May 03, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Not throwing stones here but IMHO, one fact still remains that alot of users of LOTW either are unaware of or fail to pass the real underlying facts about LOTW as indicated in their statements such as "LOTW usage is free and it counts towards ARRL awards". While the usage of LOTW is free to upload and receive matching QSOs in the database for QSL credit, those QSL credits in and amoung themselves are relatively useless alone. The use of those QSLs towards applying for awards requires that the applying LOTW account holder BUY those QSLs for use in the award application. Now granted, while there is money involved in either method- LoTW or cards, the LOTW is much cheaper than going direct just to receive the QSL 'point' towards an award.

You're right, I should've been more clear. The exchange of QSL information is free with LOTW, though applying for certificates costs money, though as you said, it is cheaper with LOTW than with paper cards.

Either way, I don't understand the reticence to use LOTW, given how easy it is to get set up.

73 de W6VMS


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KF7CG on May 03, 2011, 01:53:23 PM
I haven't set up QRZ yet. Otherwise it is LOTW, then eQSL, then paper for the special countries that I really need.

By the way over the past 4 years the confirmation percentages on LOTW, approximately 40%, significantly out pace eQSL, approximately 10%. I send them both the the same logs just prepared differently. Logger32 to ADIF, send direct to eQSL, run TQSL controlling batch file to sign and send to LOTW all very slick.

Updating Logger32 from LOTW is slick too, just download QSL report with detail turned on from LOTW and then sync with Logger32. I have never needed to bring any confirmations down from eQSL. My WAS is all LOTW and my DXCC is mixed to take advantage of some old rare QSLs, like Midway and Easter Island.

KF7CG


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K8GU on May 04, 2011, 05:14:50 AM
There is really only one electronic QSL system that is not a toy:  LoTW. 

For the record, LoTW TrustedQSL works wonderfully on the Mac and GNU/Linux (and it should build on any other Unix-like system that can satisfy the dependencies).

I also enjoy paper QSL cards.


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: K4BNC on May 04, 2011, 10:45:27 AM
I have not been sending out QSLs for a good many years (although I will answer any sent directly).  I decided a few months ago to start with LOTW when they added VUCC.  I already have more than enough for 6M. I am seeing confirmations for about half of the grids I have worked; on 2 and 432 it is more like a quarter.

My last DXCC update was 1971.  Although it took a while for them to find the record, it is now linked with LOTW.  One limitation is that the old linked records do not carry specific information such as the band used.  Therefore they only appear in the overall totals but not in the per band counts.  However the LOTW confirmations alone would have been enough for DXCC (and WAS for that matter). 

LOTW seems like a good deal less trouble than physically exchanging cards.  Besides all my walls are already covered with QSL cards.
John



Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KE3WH on May 04, 2011, 07:46:42 PM
I like the QSL in hand first.
I have been using eQSL since it started, im one of the unlucky ones that never seemed to QSO anyone else that used it, or went through the AG process as well.
I just started with LoTW, I had tried 3 or 4 separate times to set it up prior to my last successful attempt. Its certainly a process that needs streamlined.
QRZ just isnt all that popular it seems.

Dan


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: N5UP on August 02, 2011, 03:44:35 PM
Nobody seemed to give you any hard data.  Here are the facts as of August 2, 2011:

LOTWeQSL.cc
Users42,827180,490
QSL records42 million208 million
Awards26 (+26 endorsements)



Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: AB4ZT on August 02, 2011, 04:41:51 PM
Here are the real hard facts:

LOTW:  Good for DXCC, VUCC, and other awards

eQSL:   Good for nothing.

73,

Richard


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: KJ4FUU on August 03, 2011, 05:45:34 AM
I prefer a card. While I won't be able to use eQSL for awards, at least it does give me the chance to get a card (by using their card printing/mailing service) from stations that normally don't give cards. I don't bother to print and mail default cards, but if someone went through the effort to design a card, and I know that they don't do postal QSLs, or that a postal QSL would be long in coming, I have the card printed and mailed to me.

LotW doesn't let me see cards, but it is good for awards. And, while eQSL and qrz.com both allow you to see incoming requests (even those you never had contact with), you can't cheat LotW with any method I've heard about.

So, I:

a.) load all my contacts into LotW,
b.) respond to contacts in eQSL,
c.) use qrz.com to find out if the ham does QSL cards by mail.

So, they all have their uses.

73,

-- Tom


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: W5DQ on August 03, 2011, 09:28:34 AM
Nobody seemed to give you any hard data.  Here are the facts as of August 2, 2011:

LOTWeQSL.cc
Users42,827180,490
QSL records42 million208 million
Awards26 (+26 endorsements)



Not disputing the actual numbers but of those 208 million eQSL database entries, how many are ACTUALLY valid QSLs and not wishful (or after the fact) QSLs. I would bet (based on my results to date with eQSL) that upwards of 10% of them are bogus, maybe more. At the same time, the 42 million QSLs in the LOTW database are guarenteed 100% accurate given the facts that both sides have to enter MATCHING data BLINDLY (neither knows the others entry until it matches) so all QSLs are valid. One interesting fact is although I hear about the level of usage and see numbers like these quoted above, I can't understand why I would have over 200 countries confirmed in LOTW and only 78 confirmed in eQSL if I upload the same data to both sites and supposedly eQSL is used by more hams? Looks and sounds like there is alot of boasting going on but nothing to back it up!

Not sure where the 2 award number comes from for LOTW in the above numbers. If counting awards, there are 3 basic awards (DXCC, WAS, VUCC) but with all the ENDORSEMENTS (let's be fair to both sides in the count) there are 55 awards to earn.

Given the level of exposure that almost every person has daily with computers in everyday life, I find it humorous that many still stand by their comments "I find setting up LOTW too difficult", "I find LOTW too confusing to use", "I don't want to have to wait on a postcard to register", "I don't like LOTW because .........". While I'm sure that process could be more streamlined (I know enough about IT to get me through most of the problems I face at work and home), I think I could safely bet that of the vast majority of hams using a computer and some sort of logging program and that the logging program, once installed and configured, handles the 'work' of interfacing with the LOTW for online QSLing. Once setup, LOTW is no harder to use than eQSL but of course throwing in the ARRL bashers and you get a lot of whining and groaning about LOTW regardless.
 
Like I mentioned in a previous reply, I do ALL avenues of QSLing so I am not biased one way or the other. I use the method that gives me the desired results with the least amount of effort and expense.

Gene W5DQ
ARRL Life Member


Title: RE: eQSL-LOTW-QRZ Log: Which To Use?
Post by: NI0C on August 04, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
W5DQ,

Your reply to N5UP's posting was spot on.

Number of QSL's loaded to eQSL are comparable to number of QSO's (not QSL's) uploaded to LoTW.  Thus, many more QSO's have been uploaded to LoTW than eQSL.  

I also agree with your point concerning number of countries represented in the two systems.  My experience is 296 confirmed LoTW countries; but only 153 on eQSL for the same log data.

I use both; however I'm certainly less enthusiastic about eQSL.  I could care less about their copycat awards that just don't garner the same respect as ARRL and CQ awards.  

73,
Chuck  NI0C