eHam

eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: AB4D on September 20, 2011, 03:36:17 PM



Title: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AB4D on September 20, 2011, 03:36:17 PM
In searching the net for a decent amateur radio mobile HF amplifier beyond the SGC and Tokyo Hi-Power, I was appalled by the vast number of obvious non type accepted amplifiers offered for sale over the internet.  It seems to me, the FCC would find it very easy to just go after some of these places for violating the communications act.  I just find it strange that the FCC isn't more proactive.

These are just a few that came up on a simple Google search.

http://noname216.com/

http://www.davemade.mobi/

http://www.xforceamps.com/

http://fatboyamp.com/   

http://www.wizardbuilt.com/

73


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: KG4NEL on September 20, 2011, 04:51:33 PM
In searching the net for a decent amateur radio mobile HF amplifier beyond the SGC and Tokyo Hi-Power, I was appalled by the vast number of obvious non type accepted amplifiers offered for sale over the internet.  It seems to me, the FCC would find it very easy to just go after some of these places for violating the communications act.  I just find it strange that the FCC isn't more proactive.

These are just a few that came up on a simple Google search.

http://noname216.com/

http://www.davemade.mobi/

http://www.xforceamps.com/

http://fatboyamp.com/   

http://www.wizardbuilt.com/

73

With their funding, just not a priority unless a retailer gets particularly egregious about selling them: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-984A1.pdf



Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AB4D on September 20, 2011, 05:41:32 PM
With their funding, just not a priority unless a retailer gets particularly egregious about selling them: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-984A1.pdf

I suppose. However, these places aren't just selling them. From what I gather from reading some of these sites, these are the guys who actually manufacture these amplifiers.  I would think that being in the business of manufacturing would carry much stiffer fines, more than enough to offset any costs of enforcement.  Go figure.


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: G3RZP on September 21, 2011, 02:02:09 AM
When the FCC issue the enforcement notices and actaully collect the money, who gets it? Is it the FCC - in which case they should be VERY active - or is it the US Treasury, in which case why should the FCC do their collecting for them? Or do the FCC keep it and then get their budget reduced next year by the amount they got?

If the Treasury went to the FCC and said 'You collect the fines, you get 50c in the $ to keep and it doesn't affect your budget for next year', you might well see enforcement. Even more if it was 75c in the $!


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AB2T on September 21, 2011, 03:07:55 AM
The FCC gave up years ago trying to enforce the CB 5w AM/12w pep SSB "limits" as most all hams know.  I always thought that the abolition of code testing in 2007 would turn many CBers legit.  Isn't 1500w pep on SSB enough?  If not, tell them to go to Canada where 2250w pep is legal with a full license!  Then again, I don't want to spark a flame war about CBers entering amateur radio.  Many legit, upstanding hams were once CBers, lest we forget.

Actually, a number of the 11m amps aren't badly constructed, at least from the looks of it.  Gotta give 'em something.  Then again, how many of them are sending out harmonics with improperly driven finals?  We'll never know unless a ham buys one and tests it. 

73, Jordan

 


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: W2MV on September 21, 2011, 11:13:11 AM
Listening in the 10 M CW band today I heard a couple of "good buddies" transmitting on AM. There is a problem.


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: KB1TXK on September 21, 2011, 11:58:48 AM


http://fatboyamp.com/    

A 4800w CB amp? Really?  How ironic that people spend as much money gussying up their noob CBs when they could just be getting their license and spending the same amount on radio equipment that doesn't suck...and in the end making far better contacts (and far fewer enemies).  

I'm not anti-CB...I'm anti-stupid.  Spending that much money on crap equipment is stupid...especially when the RIGHT tools for the job are at your fingertips!!!

saldk;fja;ldkgj'[pauj'aehg'!!!111


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N2EY on September 21, 2011, 02:04:09 PM
When the FCC issue the enforcement notices and actaully collect the money, who gets it? Is it the FCC - in which case they should be VERY active - or is it the US Treasury, in which case why should the FCC do their collecting for them? Or do the FCC keep it and then get their budget reduced next year by the amount they got?

If the Treasury went to the FCC and said 'You collect the fines, you get 50c in the $ to keep and it doesn't affect your budget for next year', you might well see enforcement. Even more if it was 75c in the $!

Fines and seizures all go to the General Fund. FCC doesn't get a penny, directly or indirectly. Same for spectrum auctions.

Pretty much common practice, to avoid conflict of interest.

The police officer who issues a driver a speeding ticket doesn't get a piece of the fine, either.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AB4D on September 21, 2011, 02:19:59 PM
When the FCC issue the enforcement notices and actaully collect the money, who gets it? Is it the FCC - in which case they should be VERY active - or is it the US Treasury, in which case why should the FCC do their collecting for them? Or do the FCC keep it and then get their budget reduced next year by the amount they got?

If the Treasury went to the FCC and said 'You collect the fines, you get 50c in the $ to keep and it doesn't affect your budget for next year', you might well see enforcement. Even more if it was 75c in the $!

Fines and seizures all go to the General Fund. FCC doesn't get a penny, directly or indirectly. Same for spectrum auctions.

Pretty much common practice, to avoid conflict of interest.

The police officer who issues a driver a speeding ticket doesn't get a piece of the fine, either.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Most of what you said is fairly accurate.  However,  I have read where some certain things like a percentage of cash seized during drug busts do go back to law enforcement for enhancing equipment.  Too bad the FCC enforcement division does not get at least a percentage of the forfeitures and fines.  I believe we would see an improvement in enforcement.

73


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: ONAIR on September 21, 2011, 09:05:30 PM
When the FCC issue the enforcement notices and actaully collect the money, who gets it? Is it the FCC - in which case they should be VERY active - or is it the US Treasury, in which case why should the FCC do their collecting for them? Or do the FCC keep it and then get their budget reduced next year by the amount they got?

If the Treasury went to the FCC and said 'You collect the fines, you get 50c in the $ to keep and it doesn't affect your budget for next year', you might well see enforcement. Even more if it was 75c in the $!
  There is only one real solution to eradicate this problem.  The government should instruct hams to locate these culprits, and then keep 50 to 100% of all the fines that ensue.  This could get rid of the offenders, and allow many hams to buy new equipment!


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: K1ZJH on September 21, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
What is really strange is the FCC hit a guy with a $10,000 fine for assembling Stran 100mW AM transmitter
kits for others.  These weren't certified under part 15 regs for intentional radiators, but they were well within
the legal requirements.  FCC enforcement is hit or miss. It usually takes a lot of complaints to get them moving
on violators.

Pete


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: G3RZP on September 22, 2011, 12:55:13 AM
If the fines go to the general fund, there's no wonder the FCC can't afford enforcement. It's pretty obvious. But the stupidity of government  is amazing. Back in the very late 1950's, the Irish governemnt set up a special unit in the income tax to go for big tax evaders. It collected something like 1.5 million Irish punts the first year, and then it was shut down to save 100,000 punts in costs!

All down to peculiar accounting processes. If the governments were held to account in the same way as industry, they would be in prison for life. The European Commission has had its accounts qualified every year for the last nine years, and nothing is ever done about it - a company would be closed down.


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: KG6AF on September 22, 2011, 07:37:21 AM
If the fines go to the general fund, there's no wonder the FCC can't afford enforcement. It's pretty obvious. But the stupidity of government  is amazing.
I'm not sure I want regulatory agencies that raise their own revenues by handing out fines.  It's just too tempting to start handing out fines for no particularly good reason just to raise money.  Then it takes years to expose the abuse and crack down on the offending agency.  And then people complain about how stupid government was to fail to anticipate such a problem in the first place.

It reminds me a bit of the constituent who, as the story goes, objected to the salaries in Washington, and asked his Congressman, "Couldn't you guys just live on bribes?"  Well, yes they could, and there are always some who do.  But it's not the kind of thing you want to encourage by making it legal.


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N4NYY on September 22, 2011, 07:38:31 AM
Quote
Most of what you said is fairly accurate.  However,  I have read where some certain things like a percentage of cash seized during drug busts do go back to law enforcement for enhancing equipment.  Too bad the FCC enforcement division does not get at least a percentage of the forfeitures and fines.  I believe we would see an improvement in enforcement.

That is a whole different ballgame. Please don't try to lump CB amps in the same category as drugs, etc.

Unless the CB amps are inflicting problems on the ham bands that directly affect you, or interfering with you, then don't worry about it. It is not your problem. Leave the enforcement to the enforcers. If the interference is illegal use, and is directly impacting you, then file a complaint and go up the chain of command.

I can't speak for you because I don't know you, but we have some local hams here that that think they are cops and can harass people. The ham license does not give hams the right to any enforcement. They have to do it like anyone else. File a complaint.

And if you are not encouraged by FCC enforcement, or lack there of, then it is because of funding and manpower. So join the rest of the other gov't depts without proper funding and manpower.



Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N2EY on September 24, 2011, 08:05:08 AM
Unless the CB amps are inflicting problems on the ham bands that directly affect you, or interfering with you, then don't worry about it. It is not your problem.

I disagree!

If a non-amateur-radio transmitter causes interference to other services (say, TV), and amateurs are blamed for it, it *is* our problem.

The reason for the regulations about amplifiers covering 12 and 10 meters, which go back to 1978, isn't because of anything hams did. It's because of what non-hams did. Which makes it our problem.

There are other examples.

Leave the enforcement to the enforcers.

I agree 100%.


If the interference is illegal use, and is directly impacting you, then file a complaint and go up the chain of command.

Always remember that enforcement is highly complaint-driven. The squeaky wheel and all that.

And be sure the interference is really being caused by a dirty transmitter at the other end, not an overloaded receiver at your end. Otherwise you can look like a real doofus.

Many low- and mid-range ham rigs don't have really good dynamic range front-end performance, particularly with the AGC on and the front end running wide open. A high-powered transmitter afew hundred feet away can cause all sorts of havoc in such a receiver, even if it's clean. Be sure before you accuse.

And if you are not encouraged by FCC enforcement, or lack there of, then it is because of funding and manpower. So join the rest of the other gov't depts without proper funding and manpower.

Exactly. FCC is chronically underfunded, and has been for the past 30+ years. Ham radio is only a tiny part of what they have to do.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: KT0DD on September 24, 2011, 10:12:35 AM
It is my understanding that these amplifiers can legally be offered for sale, it's just illegal to buy one and use it. Pretty Dumb!


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N2EY on September 24, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
It is my understanding that these amplifiers can legally be offered for sale, it's just illegal to buy one and use it. Pretty Dumb!

I think you are mistaken. FCC rules, particularly Part 2, prohibit the *marketing* of external RF amplifiers that are not certificated for use in the service for which they are marketed.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AB4D on September 25, 2011, 10:12:16 AM
Quote
Most of what you said is fairly accurate.  However,  I have read where some certain things like a percentage of cash seized during drug busts do go back to law enforcement for enhancing equipment.  Too bad the FCC enforcement division does not get at least a percentage of the forfeitures and fines.  I believe we would see an improvement in enforcement.

That is a whole different ballgame. Please don't try to lump CB amps in the same category as drugs, etc.

Unless the CB amps are inflicting problems on the ham bands that directly affect you, or interfering with you, then don't worry about it. It is not your problem. Leave the enforcement to the enforcers. If the interference is illegal use, and is directly impacting you, then file a complaint and go up the chain of command.

I can't speak for you because I don't know you, but we have some local hams here that that think they are cops and can harass people. The ham license does not give hams the right to any enforcement. They have to do it like anyone else. File a complaint.

And if you are not encouraged by FCC enforcement, or lack there of, then it is because of funding and manpower. So join the rest of the other gov't depts without proper funding and manpower.



Nobody lumped CB amps into the same category as drugs. I was stating an opinion,  that just like other law enforcement entities, the FCC should be provided a percentage of any collected fines, if those funds will result in direct enforcement.  Illegal junky amplifiers are everyone's problem.  For legitimate users of the radio spectrum, we don't need the additional noise/interference from IMD and harmonics.  From a safety standpoint, I don't like the fact that some moron without a clue about RF safety, running a 1kw+ mobile amplifier, can drive down the road subjecting others to high levels of RF, without their knowledge or consent.   Do you believe it is okay for someone to place an antenna radiating 1KW or more 5 feet away at eye level near a school bus load of kids, or near a person who is using medical equipment to sustain life?  I certainly don't, and anyone with a half a brain should agree. The best way to deal with any type of illegal activity has always been the same, at the source.

I agree with N2EY, I know of at least one case that involved a ham being accused by his neighbors of causing wide spread neighborhood interference.  Only after some detective work by the ham, it was discovered that someone on the CB band running illegal power was the culprit.  Ham antennas are more visible, we are the first ones to get blamed for interference of any kind. In this particular case, the person using the CB amp had discretely placed his antenna in a tree.

I never mentioned anything about personally doing any type of enforcement.  How in world did you get that idea?  The subject of the post is the lack of enforcement by those who are supposed to be doing it, the FCC.  Your post can almost lead someone to believe that you think it's ok for people to manufacture these amplifiers, as long as they are not causing you any immediate problem.

Your allegation is the first I have read in a really long time, of hams acting like cops trying to perform radio enforcement on their own. Further, I've never knew that harassment is part of an enforcement effort.  Nevertheless, do tell, so we can all read about what you are alleging.  Have you reported it to Laura Smith at the FCC?

73




Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AD5TD on September 25, 2011, 08:04:40 PM
The FCC has bigger fish to fry.  Heck I say a 30,000 watt (yes that's THOUSAND) amp on Craigs list the other day.

http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/screen-shot-2011-06-3.jpg


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: AA4HA on September 26, 2011, 07:02:52 AM
There is also the "official observer" program and the amateur auxiliary. This is supposed to be an additional way to report violations/ interference up to the FCC.

http://www.arrl.org/amateur-auxiliary

To quote;
"The ARRL and the FCC have signed a Menornadum of Understanding that defines the relationship between the two. By aggreement, the ARRL Amateur Auxiliary does initial fact finding for the FCC, referring appropriate cases to the Enforcement Bureau for consideration. The FCC may also request the Amateur Auxiliary to gather information as needed. "


Tisha Hayes


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: K8AXW on September 26, 2011, 08:33:56 AM


Quote

I agree with N2EY, I know of at least one case that involved a ham being accused by his neighbors of causing wide spread neighborhood interference.  Only after some detective work by the ham, it was discovered that someone on the CB band running illegal power was the culprit.  Ham antennas are more visible, we are the first ones to get blamed for interference of any kind. In this particular case, the person using the CB amp had discretely placed his antenna in a tree.


I had this happen to me once.  A big guy from the next block up pounded on my door one day loud enough to rattle the windows.  He told me he "was damn sick and tired of me interfering with his TV and stereo!"  When I asked why he thought it was me, he replied, "My neighbors said it HAD to be you because you have that big beam and tower in the back yard!"

By this time I had ramped up my emotions and explained to the guy in a tone of voice that got his attention, "that I hadn't been on the air for a week and could show him my logbook if he wanted to see it." 

I then pointed to the CB antenna sticking up over the roof of the house across the street from his house and suggested that he should talk to that guy!

I never heard anything else from him after that. 

I've known many CB'rs for decades.  I found that they have no idea how to operate a linear (legality not the issue here) almost always driving it so hard that they splatter all 40 channels and beyond....using power mics which over drives the audio stages causing splatter over 40 channels and beyond. 

This illegal equipment issue affects us all. However, the only thing we can do is to report it to the FCC and let them take care of it..... or not.


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: MAGNUM257 on September 28, 2011, 04:04:34 PM
The FCC has bigger fish to fry.  Heck I say a 30,000 watt (yes that's THOUSAND) amp on Craigs list the other day.

http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/screen-shot-2011-06-3.jpg

I'm sorry but THAT IS AWESOME!!  :D


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N0ZNA on September 29, 2011, 04:34:49 PM
I have so many cbers that run amps in my area,its imposible to run 28.380 or around there for the splatter.I run alot of 10 and 12 mtrs.I am shocked at the power they run now.It use to be just 300 to 500 wts is what they use to run.I have heard and seen on the internet the amps that they have now.It is nothing to see a 3 kw am dead key.Wow,just go to you tube or craigs list.73s de n0zna


Title: RE: Lack of FCC enforcement
Post by: N5RWJ on September 30, 2011, 02:11:24 PM
In searching the net for a decent amateur radio mobile HF amplifier beyond the SGC and Tokyo Hi-Power, I was appalled by the vast number of obvious non type accepted amplifiers offered for sale over the internet.  It seems to me, the FCC would find it very easy to just go after some of these places for violating the communications act.  I just find it strange that the FCC isn't more proactive.

These are just a few that came up on a simple Google search.

http://noname216.com/

http://www.davemade.mobi/

http://www.xforceamps.com/

http://fatboyamp.com/   

http://www.wizardbuilt.com/

73

With their funding, just not a priority unless a retailer gets particularly egregious about selling them: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-984A1.pdf


G good-buddy. Thank for the tips ? Better to e-mail The FCC and note post sites here