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eHam Forums => Emergency Communications => Topic started by: N5RWJ on November 23, 2011, 12:42:23 PM



Title: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on November 23, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Will our Government order Some freq closed, or all of them?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on November 23, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
In the CONELRAD days, US amateurs had to shut down their transmitters if regular radio stations stopped transmitting - that indicated that CONELRAD was active. Instead, two AM frequencies were used to inform the public, with transmitters that were shut on and off in a randomized sequence. The purpose of this system was to prevent enemy strategic bombers from using broadcasters and hams as radio direction finding beacons. However, this way of doing it became obsolete by the advent of ballistic missiles, leading to the EBS and EAS systems taking over from CONELRAD.

There could still, however, be a need to prevent enemy agents from hiding their traffic in the din of amateur transmitters, so even though the RDF reason is not as relevant now, the counter-intelligence reason might be relevant for shutting down amateur radio.

If the President shuts down the amateur radio service, RACES stations can - unless otherwise ordered - stay active.

To answer your question, I'd say it would depend on how the bombs come.
- Strategic ballistic attack?
- Terrorist attack by air, with advance warning?
- Other types of terrorist attacks?

If it's ballistic missiles from an enemy nation, maybe it's pointless to shut down amateur radio, as mentioned above.

If it's a terrorist group using hijacked planes or something like that to deliver the bombs, then maybe shutting down GPS, aircraft beacons (VORs and NDRs), the amateur service and terrestial broadcasters would deprive them of navigational aids - so it would be logical to consider the possibility, if there's advance warning, but I don't know if a shut-down is in any current plans.

If it's an unexpected, or land-based, terrorist attack, I think the government will be more concerned with re-establishing communications and inform the public after much equipment and infrastructure has been taken out with an EMP. In this case, amateurs would be needed to help set up alternative communications.

If you look at FEMA's unclassified guidance for managing a nuclear blast event, it talks about the problems of EMP, and it also talks about using the EAS, particularly weather radio for communicating with the public, and the use of two-way radio. It also mentions using volunteers and the National Response Framework - volunteer amateur radio operators could have a role to play here. On a cursory reading, it looks like that guideline is more concerned with terrorism (a single blast in a city) than a strategic ballistic scenario (booms everywhere).


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE4YOG on November 23, 2011, 06:47:50 PM
Considering that I live 5 miles from a major USAF base, 50 miles or so from Camp Lejeune USMC base and 50 or so miles from Ft. Bragg I have a feeling in case of a large exchange of nukes with another country my station will be shut down for ever. We are lucky they moved the bombers out but still. If I hear that we are under attack I will head closer to the base to speed up the process.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W3LK on November 25, 2011, 05:14:52 PM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: AE6ZW on November 25, 2011, 07:46:08 PM
dying from nuclear radiation poisoning is slow and painful process, because burn wound do not heel, like any burning wound is very painful.  I also agree with many others, that I would rather be closer to center of blast so death comes quickly and instantaneously.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on November 26, 2011, 06:18:17 AM
Nuclear attacks are more survivable than you think, if you're outside the immediate blast zone. Fallout is highly radioactive - the good news is that it decays pretty quickly.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB2FCV on November 29, 2011, 02:28:43 PM
I'm pretty sure most of Northern NJ would be wiped off the face of the earth in a large exchange of nukes (would the 'Jersey Shore' house be one of the strategic targets?) so I don't have all that much to worry about. I don't really think we're anywhere near any sort of threat of a large exchange. If anything I could see a city being a target of some terrorist group if they got a hold of some sort of nuke in the US.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on December 01, 2011, 06:43:21 AM
Nuclear attacks are more survivable than you think, if you're outside the immediate blast zone. Fallout is highly radioactive - the good news is that it decays pretty quickly.

It can--and yet again, with some types of N bombs it won't.  That is why some of those are called 'dirty' bombs, because the radioactivity doesn't decay rapidly.  Same sort of radioactivity that is around Cherynobyl and the crippled Japanese Nuclear Generation facility recently in the news.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on December 01, 2011, 09:04:20 AM
A "dirty bomb" is not actually a nuclear explosion, but a conventional explosion used to spread bits of radioactive material. It could indeed contain a variety of isotopes, including ones which take a long time to decay, leading to months of cleanup. If proper sheltering, evacuation and clean-up procedures are followed, it really shouldn't kill many more people than it killed in the initial explosion though.

As for actual nuclear bombs, how much fallout they produce depend both on the type of bomb and where they're detonated. An air burst would create less fallout than a ground burst, for example.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE4YOG on December 01, 2011, 09:49:05 AM
If you have never watched "Trinity and Beyond" you have missed a great video. Scary but good video!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KD4LLA on December 01, 2011, 07:45:47 PM
What part of "bend over and kiss you butt goodbye" don't you understand about nuclear weapons?  I spent twenty-some years in the US Army, and in training we would hear "When you see the bright light take cover".  Well, if you "see" the bright light, the world you knew is over, and you may wish you were dead...

Amateur radio is the last thing I will be worried about.

Mike


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JX on December 01, 2011, 08:01:30 PM
What part of "bend over and kiss you butt goodbye" don't you understand about nuclear weapons?  I spent twenty-some years in the US Army, and in training we would hear "When you see the bright light take cover".  Well, if you "see" the bright light, the world you knew is over, and you may wish you were dead...

Amateur radio is the last thing I will be worried about.

Mike

I did time with SAC in 70's and been around some big nukes. There are no winners with them and if they start dropping them, I want to under one because life as you know it will end. And if it is "bad", if you survive blasts it will be slow death. Anyone that thinks it is survivable and is worried about ham radio after blast is not understanding what would really happen.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KA5N on December 02, 2011, 03:19:15 AM
This thread reminds me of old Science Fiction books where there is a small band of
people who survive the Holocaust and rebuild civilization.  Hogwash!  If you manage to
stay alive after the big one you are likely to be done in by some other stronger, nastier
survivor who will take what food and other goods you have collected and probably do
you in as well.
Remember the corner grocery won't be doing business as usual.
Allen


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 08:48:06 AM
Considering that I live 5 miles from a major USAF base, 50 miles or so from Camp Lejeune USMC base and 50 or so miles from Ft. Bragg I have a feeling in case of a large exchange of nukes with another country my station will be shut down for ever. We are lucky they moved the bombers out but still. If I hear that we are under attack I will head closer to the base to speed up the process.

   You need to move!  Get a place out in the middle of nowhere, far from any area that would warrant targeting.  I believe there is a map online which lists all of the probable mainland US targets for nuclear strikes.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 08:51:18 AM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.
   Maybe so, but what happens if you survive?  You will definitely need communications.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 08:54:09 AM
Nuclear attacks are more survivable than you think, if you're outside the immediate blast zone. Fallout is highly radioactive - the good news is that it decays pretty quickly.
   Exactly!  It is our responsibility to survive, to continue the human race and the American way! :)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 08:59:54 AM
A "dirty bomb" is not actually a nuclear explosion, but a conventional explosion used to spread bits of radioactive material. It could indeed contain a variety of isotopes, including ones which take a long time to decay, leading to months of cleanup. If proper sheltering, evacuation and clean-up procedures are followed, it really shouldn't kill many more people than it killed in the initial explosion though.

As for actual nuclear bombs, how much fallout they produce depend both on the type of bomb and where they're detonated. An air burst would create less fallout than a ground burst, for example.
   Don't forget "neutron" bombs!  They only wipe out living things, so your house will be left in perfect condition!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
This thread reminds me of old Science Fiction books where there is a small band of
people who survive the Holocaust and rebuild civilization.  Hogwash!  If you manage to
stay alive after the big one you are likely to be done in by some other stronger, nastier
survivor who will take what food and other goods you have collected and probably do
you in as well.
Remember the corner grocery won't be doing business as usual.
Allen
  This is why you need to become a survivalist, and be prepared!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JX on December 05, 2011, 10:00:25 AM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.
   Maybe so, but what happens if you survive?  You will definitely need communications.

Communications is going to be the least of your worries in a Nuclear war. Been watchin too many SiFi movies.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 05, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.
   Maybe so, but what happens if you survive?  You will definitely need communications.

Communications is going to be the least of your worries in a Nuclear war. Been watchin too many SiFi movies.
    LOL!  Maybe so, but what happens if we survive?  Can you imagine being one of the few Americans left?  Don't forget, because of his protection, Obama will probably be OK as well.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JX on December 05, 2011, 11:46:38 AM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.
   Maybe so, but what happens if you survive?  You will definitely need communications.

Communications is going to be the least of your worries in a Nuclear war. Been watchin too many SiFi movies.
    LOL!  Maybe so, but what happens if we survive?  Can you imagine being one of the few Americans left?  Don't forget, because of his protection, Obama will probably be OK as well.

You would do better to invest in radiation detection, suits and exposure equipment than radio as it will be the real unseen silent enemy here. If it is a big exchange, unless you are in a deep bunker with lots of reserves to last up to a few years, you are likely to die a slow death for radiation or lack of safe food. It is only because that current nuke capable power understand that there is no winners with a nuke war that we have not had one. Biggest threat is from a terrorist group setting off a small dirty bomb with a limited area of damage and in this scenario ham radio really offers nothing.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on December 05, 2011, 02:48:29 PM
It's so odd, after pearl harbor, we wanted revenge. Now it seems we want to roll over like dogs ,and take it .
If this attitude doesn't changes ,we are doomed, think about it?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JX on December 05, 2011, 03:19:34 PM
It's so odd, after pearl harbor, we wanted revenge. Now it seems we want to roll over like dogs ,and take it .
If this attitude doesn't changes ,we are doomed, think about it?

Pearl Harbor is peanuts next to nukes. You can level countries with conventional warfare and if you live you can rebuilt but with Nukes it is scorched earth. After blast and searing heat there is radiation which is far more deadly long term.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on December 06, 2011, 04:06:23 PM
It's so odd, after pearl harbor, we wanted revenge. Now it seems we want to roll over like dogs ,and take it .
If this attitude doesn't changes ,we are doomed, think about it?

Pearl Harbor is peanuts next to nukes. You can level countries with conventional warfare and if you live you can rebuilt but with Nukes it is scorched earth. After blast and searing heat there is radiation which is far more deadly long term.
Did you know that over 100 Nukes, have been detonated in the USA , From 1945 to 1960 with few problems. Then we started detonating them in the atmosphere.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JX on December 06, 2011, 10:16:15 PM
It's so odd, after pearl harbor, we wanted revenge. Now it seems we want to roll over like dogs ,and take it .
If this attitude doesn't changes ,we are doomed, think about it?

Pearl Harbor is peanuts next to nukes. You can level countries with conventional warfare and if you live you can rebuilt but with Nukes it is scorched earth. After blast and searing heat there is radiation which is far more deadly long term.
Did you know that over 100 Nukes, have been detonated in the USA , From 1945 to 1960 with few problems. Then we started detonating them in the atmosphere.

If you call land that is still kinda worthless because of it nothing. They set off some many bombs in Nevada they might as well make it a nuke waste storage site.  There are also a few islands in pacific that are still uninhabitable


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: 2E0OZI on December 07, 2011, 12:32:25 AM
Define "rolling over like dogs"? Certainly OBL was chased to his grave is that not revenge? And I would not compare 911 to The Day Of Infamy. It helps in an all out war to demonise the enemy and de-humanise them, however thats the last thing that is effective to have a decent and long-lasting peace.

http://www.george-orwell.org/Revenge_is_Sour/0.html



Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on December 07, 2011, 03:00:24 AM
Define "rolling over like dogs"? Certainly OBL was chased to his grave is that not revenge?
I think N5RWJ was referring to those who said they would commit suicide in case of a nuclear attack.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W3LK on December 08, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
In case of a nuke exchange, amateur radio will be at the bottom of my worries.
   Maybe so, but what happens if you survive?  You will definitely need communications.

That's a matter of opinion. But I usually don't bother with advice from no-name, no-call sign posters. Just a little quirk I have.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KA1VF on December 09, 2011, 08:10:37 AM
When I worked at Honeywell in the late 60's, we had alot of ex-USAF folks on our civilian payroll.
One guy in my Department told me of the hazing procedure for folks who would fire the missiles.

After he completed his training, he had to climb onto and then sit on top of the loaded warhead in it's
silo for 10 minutes to prove that he had nerves of steel. Then, each two man firing crew had to take
an oath that they would shoot the other guy on duty if he went rogue. note: This hazing/oath ritual
was only done once, and never repeated again. note: Each guy had a loaded Colt .45acp pistol in a
shoulder holster just in case he had to shoot his teammate!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB2FCV on December 09, 2011, 12:30:41 PM
After he completed his training, he had to climb onto and then sit on top of the loaded warhead in it's
silo for 10 minutes to prove that he had nerves of steel.


Dr Strangelove all of a sudden popped in my head with that visual..

As I mentioned before I live in NNJ. If there ever were a "large exchange" I have absolutely nothing to worry about as I would be a glowing crispy critter. I'm guessing NNJ would be wiped off the map.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N3WAK on December 10, 2011, 07:37:18 AM
If a nuclear exchange comes: (1) if there's a President left, who (2) has communications and cares what bands you use, and (3) electromagnetic pulse--EMP--hasn't fried your transceiver, and (4) you haven't been incinerated, and (5) you have power, food, and water, then (6) you can operate any darn where you please, since the FCC isn't going to worry about issuing you a NOV.  Besides, how is anybody on eHam going to know the answer? 

I'm sorry, but that was a very, very silly question--"Big Nuclear booms Come" indeed.  Humpf!

So, if big nuke goes boom boom, I talk talk anywhere I want.  Maybe the ARRL will have a new "Worked All Nuked States" Award for the wall in my shack?   

73, Tony


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 10, 2011, 11:21:10 AM
If a nuclear exchange comes: (1) if there's a President left, who (2) has communications and cares what bands you use, and (3) electromagnetic pulse--EMP--hasn't fried your transceiver, and (4) you haven't been incinerated, and (5) you have power, food, and water, then (6) you can operate any darn where you please, since the FCC isn't going to worry about issuing you a NOV.  Besides, how is anybody on eHam going to know the answer? 

I'm sorry, but that was a very, very silly question--"Big Nuclear booms Come" indeed.  Humpf!

So, if big nuke goes boom boom, I talk talk anywhere I want.  Maybe the ARRL will have a new "Worked All Nuked States" Award for the wall in my shack?   

73, Tony
   LOL!  That is true.  But the real question is...   What will the effect of so many nuclear explosions have on the ionosphere?  Will it alter the MUF?  Improve or hamper skip conditions on all the bands?  Remember, the sun is just one huge nuke, and just look at what it can do to our communications from 93,000,000 miles away!  :)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: AD6KA on December 14, 2011, 09:51:46 AM
Despite the dramatic thread title:
"Big Nuclear Booms Come", a far, far more
likely radiologic emergency will come in the form
of a "dirty bomb", nuclear facility accident,
nuclear waste spill, etc.

Unless one is specifically told by officials to evacuate,
the prudent course of action is to stay indoors, DON't PANIC,
close all windows, and consume canned or other food
you have on hand.

Somewhat disturbing is the recent well executed study
which showed that upwards of 80% of nurses said
that they would NOT report to work in the event of
a radiologic incident (Dirty Bomb, waste spill, etc).

73, Ken  AD6KA, (RT) R
Registered Radiologic Technologist


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 14, 2011, 10:57:15 AM
Despite the dramatic thread title:
"Big Nuclear Booms Come", a far, far more
likely radiologic emergency will come in the form
of a "dirty bomb", nuclear facility accident,
nuclear waste spill, etc.

Unless one is specifically told by officials to evacuate,
the prudent course of action is to stay indoors, DON't PANIC,
close all windows, and consume canned or other food
you have on hand.

Somewhat disturbing is the recent well executed study
which showed that upwards of 80% of nurses said
that they would NOT report to work in the event of
a radiologic incident (Dirty Bomb, wsste spill, etc).

73, Ken  AD6KA, (RT) R
Registered Radiologic Technologist
   Recommendations for breathing masks?  Water purification?  Length of time to remain indoors after the incident?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: AD6KA on December 15, 2011, 04:44:11 PM
@ On Air

Good question!

Too many variables to make any generalizations.
Severity of incident, distance from incident,
materials and isotopes involved, prevailing winds,
it goes on and on.

Monitoring public safety announcements is
probably your best bet....as well as getting ready
to get out of Dodge!  ;D


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 15, 2011, 06:00:44 PM
@ On Air

Good question!

Too many variables to make any generalizations.
Severity of incident, distance from incident,
materials and isotopes involved, prevailing winds,
it goes on and on.

Monitoring public safety announcements is
probably your best bet....as well as getting ready
to get out of Dodge!  ;D
   Perhaps going to Dodge would be the best option!  There is a map somewhere on the internet that indicates the probable targets for a nuclear attack.  Most seem to be near military installations, power plants, shipyards and the like.  It might soon be time to move to that ham shack out in the middle of nowhere! 


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on December 16, 2011, 03:28:08 PM
They shouldn't be as Minnie Nuclear booms in the USA, as it would have been during the cold war! So you should expect to survive. Now, how do you fight back?  ???


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on December 16, 2011, 03:58:44 PM
They shouldn't be as Minnie Nuclear booms in the USA, as it would have been during the cold war! So you should expect to survive. Now, how do you fight back? >:(
   I think I have found the solution.  You know how the Constitution allows Americans to bear arms?  How about allowing us to bear nuclear arms?  I mean, who the heck would bother to invade us, if they knew we each had one of those babies in our garages?  Now that's what I call deterrence!  :)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: NM7L on January 07, 2012, 11:27:02 AM
Hello...this is Lawrence...Lawrence, Kansas.

Is there anyone out there...anyone at all?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB4QAA on January 10, 2012, 01:35:36 PM
Lawrence?   I was standing to the left of the camera when they were filming the refugee camp scene where people are lining up for food!

It was spooky just watching the filming.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on January 11, 2012, 05:57:02 AM
A "dirty bomb" is not actually a nuclear explosion, but a conventional explosion used to spread bits of radioactive material....

Not necessarily.  There are dirty bombs made with conventional explosives such as you describe, more the kind of thing small terrorist groups may use, but there are dirty bombs such as the kind that are nuclear bombs that have been 'salted' with nuclear materials that have an extremely long half life.  Those type bombs have been made by nations with specific conditions in mind for their use, and have been (hopefully) abandoned and eliminated by those nations since the cold war has ended.  It is precisely those kind of bombs that have the militarists in our government scared--they think that Iran may be building such bombs to use against the US and its allies. 


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KC9TNH on January 11, 2012, 10:38:22 AM
As long as Warrant Officer Ellen Ripley isn't currently in orbit holding the button we're probably good to go. That gal is high-strung...
 :D


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on January 11, 2012, 11:23:16 AM
A "dirty bomb" is not actually a nuclear explosion, but a conventional explosion used to spread bits of radioactive material....

Not necessarily.  There are dirty bombs made with conventional explosives such as you describe, more the kind of thing small terrorist groups may use, but there are dirty bombs such as the kind that are nuclear bombs that have been 'salted' with nuclear materials that have an extremely long half life.  Those type bombs have been made by nations with specific conditions in mind for their use, and have been (hopefully) abandoned and eliminated by those nations since the cold war has ended.  It is precisely those kind of bombs that have the militarists in our government scared--they think that Iran may be building such bombs to use against the US and its allies. 
    Actually, I read that some new generation bombs were designed to minimize residual radiation and fallout, presumably to allow ground forces to safely enter into the area soon after detonation. Then of course you have the neutron devices, which maximize radiation but minimize actual physical damage.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on January 11, 2012, 03:39:18 PM
Hello...this is Lawrence...Lawrence, Kansas.

Is there anyone out there...anyone at all?
In that move Lawrence was ground zero for two bombs, if they can transmits, yes Hams are out there.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on January 11, 2012, 03:47:30 PM
If a nuclear exchange comes: (1) if there's a President left, who (2) has communications and cares what bands you use, and (3) electromagnetic pulse--EMP--hasn't fried your transceiver, and (4) you haven't been incinerated, and (5) you have power, food, and water, then (6) you can operate any darn where you please, since the FCC isn't going to worry about issuing you a NOV.  Besides, how is anybody on eHam going to know the answer?  

I'm sorry, but that was a very, very silly question--"Big Nuclear booms Come" indeed.  Humpf!

So, if big nuke goes boom boom, I talk talk anywhere I want.  Maybe the ARRL will have a new "Worked All Nuked States" Award for the wall in my shack?  

73, Tony
  LOL!  That is true.  But the real question is...   What will the effect of so many nuclear explosions have on the ionosphere?  Will it alter the MUF?  Improve or hamper skip conditions on all the bands?  Remember, the sun is just one huge nuke, and just look at what it can do to our communications from 93,000,000 miles away!  :)
Just drop down to 600 meters, and your problem is solve, better get a antenna now.We will get an allocation a round 500 Khz this year.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on January 12, 2012, 11:13:03 AM
If a nuclear exchange comes: (1) if there's a President left, who (2) has communications and cares what bands you use, and (3) electromagnetic pulse--EMP--hasn't fried your transceiver, and (4) you haven't been incinerated, and (5) you have power, food, and water, then (6) you can operate any darn where you please, since the FCC isn't going to worry about issuing you a NOV.  Besides, how is anybody on eHam going to know the answer?  

I'm sorry, but that was a very, very silly question--"Big Nuclear booms Come" indeed.  Humpf!

So, if big nuke goes boom boom, I talk talk anywhere I want.  Maybe the ARRL will have a new "Worked All Nuked States" Award for the wall in my shack?  

73, Tony
  LOL!  That is true.  But the real question is...   What will the effect of so many nuclear explosions have on the ionosphere?  Will it alter the MUF?  Improve or hamper skip conditions on all the bands?  Remember, the sun is just one huge nuke, and just look at what it can do to our communications from 93,000,000 miles away!  :)
Just drop down to 600 meters, and your problem is solve, better get a antenna now.We will get an allocation a round 500 Khz this year.
   Good advice.  Any recommendations for a 500 Khz antenna?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on January 14, 2012, 07:15:03 PM
Good advice.  Any recommendations for a 500 Khz antenna?

Sure.  Just wait till after the boom.  If the power is out, just hook up to the electric lines coming into your house--if its still there, that is.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on January 17, 2012, 03:35:26 PM
Good advice.  Any recommendations for a 500 Khz antenna?

Sure.  Just wait till after the boom.  If the power is out, just hook up to the electric lines coming into your house--if its still there, that is.
*Some of us ,use QRP rig's powered from batteries or by the sun ;I suggest you try it, it's fun.*
Note: here is some info 500 khz antennawww.kluw.com/home.htm (http://www.kl7uw.com/home.htm)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB4QAA on January 17, 2012, 06:41:12 PM
   LOL!  That is true.  But the real question is...   What will the effect of so many nuclear explosions have on the ionosphere?  Will it alter the MUF?  Improve or hamper skip conditions on all the bands?   :)

You can expect HF blackouts for perhaps 2-6 hours then improving conditions afterwards.  This is based on actual observations during dozens of open air tests in the 40's and 50's.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K7KBN on January 17, 2012, 09:10:30 PM
If a nuclear exchange comes: (1) if there's a President left, who (2) has communications and cares what bands you use, and (3) electromagnetic pulse--EMP--hasn't fried your transceiver, and (4) you haven't been incinerated, and (5) you have power, food, and water, then (6) you can operate any darn where you please, since the FCC isn't going to worry about issuing you a NOV.  Besides, how is anybody on eHam going to know the answer?  

I'm sorry, but that was a very, very silly question--"Big Nuclear booms Come" indeed.  Humpf!

So, if big nuke goes boom boom, I talk talk anywhere I want.  Maybe the ARRL will have a new "Worked All Nuked States" Award for the wall in my shack?  

73, Tony
  LOL!  That is true.  But the real question is...   What will the effect of so many nuclear explosions have on the ionosphere?  Will it alter the MUF?  Improve or hamper skip conditions on all the bands?  Remember, the sun is just one huge nuke, and just look at what it can do to our communications from 93,000,000 miles away!  :)
Just drop down to 600 meters, and your problem is solve, better get a antenna now.We will get an allocation a round 500 Khz this year.
   Good advice.  Any recommendations for a 500 Khz antenna?

468/0.5 ...


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on January 18, 2012, 03:45:02 AM
For info on the 600 meter band go here, www.w5jgv.com (http://www.w5jgv.com), find 500 watt Amp, 600 watt tuner,
And antennas for 600 meters, 500 kHz's For emergency comm.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KG4YMC on January 20, 2012, 04:09:24 PM
Guess  where I am Pensacola,and Jacksonville would get hit . don't bother with Tallhasee captial, with rick scott already in shambles.  ;D kg4ymc


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on January 28, 2012, 02:14:44 PM
Guess  where I am Pensacola,and Jacksonville would get hit . don't bother with Tallhasee captial, with rick scott already in shambles.  ;D kg4ymc
*** why do you think , it would be the the Russian's Nuclear Booms that come?***
I don't know ,but it seems to me that Terr's would try to put a Nuclear weapon on a boat ,and detonate in one of our ports.
If you're not in the Vic of that port, then your worry will be from fallout and EMP. likely target are Port of New york NY and Port of Houston Tx


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KD0PBO on February 04, 2012, 11:08:40 PM
Just because I can...

Back in the Cold war arms race the Reds designed, built, and tested a 50 Megaton nuke in the dead of Siberia. The resulting shockwave circuled the earth a total of 3 times!! Tsar Bomba aka King of Bombs as it was called, was originally designed to be a 100 Megaton, aircraft deployable airburst device supposedly intended to vaporize, not destroy, VAPORIZE a city near the size of Long Island NY in just a few tenths of a second...talk about spine chilling.

Luckily the Soviets never got around to building the full-scale 100mt...or at least we don't think they did..

All past cold war nuke scare thoughts aside, I'm personally more worried about some sort of doomsday pandemic wiping out 70% of our population :o Its more likely than an all out nuclear war IMHO.

KD0PBO


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on February 07, 2012, 08:26:24 AM
Just because I can...

Back in the Cold war arms race the Reds designed, built, and tested a 50 Megaton nuke in the dead of Siberia. The resulting shockwave circuled the earth a total of 3 times!! Tsar Bomba aka King of Bombs as it was called, was originally designed to be a 100 Megaton, aircraft deployable airburst device supposedly intended to vaporize, not destroy, VAPORIZE a city near the size of Long Island NY in just a few tenths of a second...talk about spine chilling.

Luckily the Soviets never got around to building the full-scale 100mt...or at least we don't think they did..

All past cold war nuke scare thoughts aside, I'm personally more worried about some sort of doomsday pandemic wiping out 70% of our population :o Its more likely than an all out nuclear war IMHO.

KD0PBO
    That was half a century ago, right around the time of Sputnik!  I'm sure that by now they, or we, or someone, has gotten around to building a 500mt device, even if it's just to get more bang for the buck!  If you can just manage to get away from the target of one of those babys, you might be able to get your emcom station up and running.  Probably won't be too many hams left to chat with, but just think about how nice it would be to DX those really distant islands using only QRP, with zero pile ups!  :)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KD0PBO on February 07, 2012, 07:26:12 PM
  That was half a century ago, right around the time of Sputnik!  I'm sure that by now they, or we, or someone, has gotten around to building a 500mt device, even if it's just to get more bang for the buck!   [/quote]

Haha..so true!! 500mt would be a huge @$$ bang!!!  :o


 [/quote]   If you can just manage to get away from the target of one of those babys, you might be able to get your emcom station up and running.  Probably won't be too many hams left to chat with, but just think about how nice it would be to DX those really distant islands using only QRP, with zero pile ups!  :)[/quote]

Lol..i can imagine it now! Workin' the world on 500mW!!  :D


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on February 10, 2012, 11:52:17 AM
  That was half a century ago, right around the time of Sputnik!  I'm sure that by now they, or we, or someone, has gotten around to building a 500mt device, even if it's just to get more bang for the buck!   

Haha..so true!! 500mt would be a huge @$$ bang!!!  :o


 [/quote]   If you can just manage to get away from the target of one of those babys, you might be able to get your emcom station up and running.  Probably won't be too many hams left to chat with, but just think about how nice it would be to DX those really distant islands using only QRP, with zero pile ups!  :)[/quote]

Lol..i can imagine it now! Workin' the world on 500mW!!  :D
[/quote]         500Mw?  Try 100Mw!  I can get my old CB Walkie Talkie out of the attic, convert it to 10 Meters, and work the world with just my 9 volt battery and telescopic whip!  :)


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE4DRN on February 14, 2012, 06:05:27 PM
Getting the QSL card may be difficult!

"If you can just manage to get away from the target of one of those babys, you might be able to get your emcom station up and running.  Probably won't be too many hams left to chat with, but just think about how nice it would be to DX those really distant islands using only QRP, with zero pile ups!"


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on February 16, 2012, 03:58:46 PM
look out for Iran?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KC8VWM on February 16, 2012, 11:22:15 PM
I would just watch all the nuclear armageddon TV shows and see what the did.



Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: AC8MS on July 14, 2012, 11:32:02 AM
I can't see any plausible scenario where the U.S. would be involved in anything remotely resembling the massive nuclear exchange possible up to the early '90's could happen in 2012. First off, during the cold war there were only two major players-NATO (The U.S.) and The Soviet Union (Russia). We are no longer enemies locked into an ideological struggle. I was a member of a nuclear unit at the height of the cold war over two decades ago, we avoided it then and while nothing is impossible, I don't lose any sleep over it today-although I once did. A simple count of the warheads remaining is misleading because most of these warheads are low-yield short-range tactical weapons, not 5-20 megaton ICBMs. The few rouge nations who posses warheads lack the delivery systems to hit us. As an example, even if North Korea had a few ICBMs that didn't self-destruct shortly after launch as their last one did, do you really believe the could make to U.S. soil before being shot down or rendered nothing more than an unguided dirty bomb (no EMP here) by a close-proximity defensive nuke? NORAD was prepared to track and counter hundreds to thousands of ICBMs from the USSR-I doubt we have lost the ability to deal with a handful at most that could be launched by suicidal lunatics. A limited exchange in the Middle-East is possible (it would be VERY limited since The Israelis would be involved) , but the EMP won't affect anyone in the U.S. I think a realistic risk assessment would reveal that there are more realistic concerns to consider such as an outbreak of hemorrhagic fever, a virus affecting the food supply, a state-sponsored cyber-attack or global warming's affect on our climate.  The cold war as it relates to nukes is over. I don't understand why people would still obsess over it, but everybody need a hobby.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on July 14, 2012, 01:23:18 PM
I can't see any plausible scenario where the U.S. would be involved in anything remotely resembling the massive nuclear exchange possible up to the early '90's could happen in 2012. First off, during the cold war there were only two major players-NATO (The U.S.) and The Soviet Union (Russia). We are no longer enemies locked into an ideological struggle. I was a member of a nuclear unit at the height of the cold war over two decades ago, we avoided it then and while nothing is impossible, I don't lose any sleep over it today-although I once did. A simple count of the warheads remaining is misleading because most of these warheads are low-yield short-range tactical weapons, not 5-20 megaton ICBMs. The few rouge nations who posses warheads lack the delivery systems to hit us. As an example, even if North Korea had a few ICBMs that didn't self-destruct shortly after launch as their last one did, do you really believe the could make to U.S. soil before being shot down or rendered nothing more than an unguided dirty bomb (no EMP here) by a close-proximity defensive nuke? NORAD was prepared to track and counter hundreds to thousands of ICBMs from the USSR-I doubt we have lost the ability to deal with a handful at most that could be launched by suicidal lunatics. A limited exchange in the Middle-East is possible (it would be VERY limited since The Israelis would be involved) , but the EMP won't affect anyone in the U.S. I think a realistic risk assessment would reveal that there are more realistic concerns to consider such as an outbreak of hemorrhagic fever, a virus affecting the food supply, a state-sponsored cyber-attack or global warming's affect on our climate.  The cold war as it relates to nukes is over. I don't understand why people would still obsess over it, but everybody need a hobby.
You can tell your self all that until, a nuke goes off in New York Harbor. "Cartoon" ***Flash***  Today A. Nuclear bomb  was detonated in New York Harbor , causing major destruction to most of the city.  Homeland security reported that the device was likely abroad a docked ship in the harbor. The blast occurred at 8:15 AM EST this morning, as the president was visiting the NY . "Cartoon- end" I hope this will serve to walk up some of you?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: AC8MS on July 14, 2012, 03:00:58 PM
N5RWJ,

This post started as "Big Nuclear Booms (Plural) Come." I was simply addressing the concerns most of the posters to this thread had about a large scale "Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)" scenario. I said in the first sentence "I can't see any plausible scenario where the U.S. would be involved in anything remotely resembling the massive nuclear exchange possible up to the early '90's could happen in 2012."  I never discounted the very real threat of a single shipboard bomb detonated in a major harbor. Perhaps if you read my post again you will see the issue I was addressing. Nuclear WW3, not terrorist attack. I just think too many people still believe we face the same nuclear issues we did during the cold war, when clearly we do not.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on July 15, 2012, 12:19:23 PM
N5RWJ,

This post started as "Big Nuclear Booms (Plural) Come." I was simply addressing the concerns most of the posters to this thread had about a large scale "Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)" scenario. I said in the first sentence "I can't see any plausible scenario where the U.S. would be involved in anything remotely resembling the massive nuclear exchange possible up to the early '90's could happen in 2012."  I never discounted the very real threat of a single shipboard bomb detonated in a major harbor. Perhaps if you read my post again you will see the issue I was addressing. Nuclear WW3, not terrorist attack. I just think too many people still believe we face the same nuclear issues we did during the cold war, when clearly we do not.
I think we do.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB2FCV on July 17, 2012, 11:55:16 AM
I also feel there is no longer the threat of a "Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)" scenario anymore since the cold war ended. I do still think there will always be a threat of a terrorist scenario that would target some place of significance.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0SYA on July 21, 2012, 07:18:06 AM
No. We'll get nuked and the resident would probably surrender immediately.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on July 21, 2012, 07:56:09 AM
N5RWJ,

This post started as "Big Nuclear Booms (Plural) Come." I was simply addressing the concerns most of the posters to this thread had about a large scale "Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)" scenario. I said in the first sentence "I can't see any plausible scenario where the U.S. would be involved in anything remotely resembling the massive nuclear exchange possible up to the early '90's could happen in 2012."  I never discounted the very real threat of a single shipboard bomb detonated in a major harbor. Perhaps if you read my post again you will see the issue I was addressing. Nuclear WW3, not terrorist attack. I just think too many people still believe we face the same nuclear issues we did during the cold war, when clearly we do not.


I think we do.

Yes, the threats are still there, but from a different group.  Now its the radical Islamists such as in Iran and the North Koreans.  The good news is that the countries that were formerly the threat are sort of sided with us now even though relations can be frosty sometimes.  The scale of the the so called opposition has been reduced drastically, but technology has advanced to the point that the threat itself could well be just as large as it used to be.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0SYA on July 22, 2012, 01:41:53 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Yury_Dolgorukiy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulava_(missile)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM_Topol

Nothing to worry about.

:D


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on July 22, 2012, 02:14:03 PM
Just to sum up

In a strategic MAD scenario:
Shutting down amateur radio won't make much difference since the preferred delivery vehicle is the intercontinental ballistic missile, launched from submarines or silos, instead of the strategic bombers of yesteryear, and electronic navigation has come a long way since the days of CONELRAD.

In case of terrorists or rogue states smuggling in devices and detonating them on the ground:
Shutting down amateur radio would be pointless, and would even be counter-productive since trained amateur radio volunteers could be useful if the detonation results in a communication emergency and/or a damage assessment effort is needed.
An exception could be if the terrorists use amateur frequencies to detonate the bombs, but (at least for conventional terrorist bombs) timers or cell phones seem more popular.

In case of terrorists or rogue states flying the devices in on a small number of planes:
In this case, it might be useful to shut down aeronautical navigational aids, GPS, broadcasters, and other radio transmitters. This to deny the attacking planes the opportunity to use radio direction finding to locate their targets (by locking on to a broadcast station or very active ham station in the target city).
This would have a substantial impact on air traffic and communications, so I'd imagine it would be a temporary measure until the threat could be eliminated.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB4QAA on August 04, 2012, 03:57:11 PM
Just a reminder that there are no immediate credible nuclear threats against the US presently.

-North Korea, can't reliably detonate a bomb.  The've had two 2kton fizzles.  They have no missile capable of reaching the US.

-Iran, no bomb, no missile.

-Al Qaida, no bomb, no missile, no leader, no money

no other countries represent philosophical enemies.

**I you are still intent on scarying yourself silly, then at least make a foil hat and cod piece!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on August 06, 2012, 11:59:24 AM
Just a reminder that there are no immediate credible nuclear threats against the US presently.
The probability of a nuclear or radiological threat is low, but it's a contingency that should be planned for. Thankfully, many of the preparations for dealing with a low scale nuclear or radiological attack would be useful in case of a nuclear plant accident, tornadoes, chemical spills, etc.
-North Korea, can't reliably detonate a bomb.  The've had two 2kton fizzles.  They have no missile capable of reaching the US.
North Korea doesn't represent a threat to hardened targets in the contiguous United States, but what if they put a couple of small devices on a civilian plane or ship, and directed it at civilian population centers? While the ICBM is the preferred delivery method of the principal nuclear powers, it's not the only way to use it.
-Iran, no bomb, no missile.
Not for lack of trying, but it seems they are preoccupied with keeping Assad in power in Syria these days.
no other countries represent philosophical enemies.
That depends on the political stability of all countries with nuclear weapons. Other powers might feel forced to intervene if nuclear stockpiles are perceived to be out of control in a coup or other unstable domestic situation .


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KD0REQ on August 06, 2012, 02:36:20 PM
who cares about zillion megaton bombs?  we all know how things work today.

the smart, cheap, clever adversary will put a few little bombs in the upper atmosphere and use the EMP to fry the communications networks and all our little microchipped toys.  we're all fat, lazy Americans with bum thumbs from fiddling phones and too-small eToys, right?

burn out all the RF/IF coils in your tube rigs, too.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0SYA on August 06, 2012, 06:20:56 PM
"Just a reminder that there are no immediate credible nuclear threats against the US presently"

Oh really?


"In 2001 I, as the President of the Russian Federation and the supreme commander, deemed it advantageous to withdraw the radio-electronic center Lourdes from Cuba. In exchange for this, George Bush, the then U.S. president, has assured me that this decision would become the final confirmation that the Cold War was over and both of our states, getting rid of the relics of the Cold War, will start building a new relationship based on cooperation and transparency. In particular, Bush has convinced me that the U.S. missile defense system will never be deployed in Eastern Europe.

The Russian Federation has fulfilled all terms of the agreement. And even more. I shut down not only the Cuban Lourdes but also Kamran in Vietnam. I shut them down because I gave my word of honor. I, like a man, has kept my word. What have the Americans done? The Americans are not responsible for their own words. It is no secret that in recent years, the U.S. created a buffer zone around Russia, involving in this process not only the countries of Central Europe, but also the Baltic states, Ukraine and the Caucasus. The only response to this could be an asymmetric expansion of the Russian military presence abroad, particularly in Cuba. In Cuba, there are convenient bays for our reconnaissance and warships, a network of the so-called "jump airfields." With the full consent of the Cuban leadership, on May 11 of this year, our country has not only resumed work in the electronic center of Lourdes, but also placed the latest mobile strategic nuclear missiles "Oak" on the island. They did not want to do it the amicable way, now let them deal with this," Putin said.

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/01-08-2012/121804-russia_army_base-0/


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on August 07, 2012, 05:57:34 AM
It has been said that those who keep the security of this country (the US) in the forefront of everyones mind are the only reason that this country and the rest of the free world hasn't been overrun by all sorts of malcontents.

It can also be said that those same "security keepers" ARE the malcontents.  These days, the only thing that about 95 percent of the world's population want is to live in peace with the rest of the world,  It is the five percent who still insist on playing the 'we must be secure' card that is causing the turmoil that the rest of the world has to guard against.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W4KVW on August 07, 2012, 05:27:19 PM
Don't sweat the stuff you can NOT control.We ALL are going to DIE anyway so have FUN while you are here & spend ALL of your money BEFORE you are gone! {:>) You will NOT be needing it in the next chapter wherever you end up! LOL  8)

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N5RWJ on August 08, 2012, 08:58:35 AM
 Israel is going nuts trying to protect them selfs ,from a posable/certain chemical attack. Now where will a full chemical attack, on Israel take the world?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KD0REQ on August 08, 2012, 12:26:03 PM
It has been said that those who keep the security of this country (the US) in the forefront of everyones mind are the only reason that this country and the rest of the free world hasn't been overrun by all sorts of malcontents.

It can also be said that those same "security keepers" ARE the malcontents.  These days, the only thing that about 95 percent of the world's population want is to live in peace with the rest of the world,  It is the five percent who still insist on playing the 'we must be secure' card that is causing the turmoil that the rest of the world has to guard against.

a pinch of this and a touch of that, and you have a government.  as in dieting, balance and moderation is the key to keeping one sane.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0SYA on August 08, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
And no one sane is running any government today. The inmates are running the asylum.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on August 14, 2012, 03:23:52 PM
Israel is going nuts trying to protect them selfs ,from a posable/certain chemical attack. Now where will a full chemical attack, on Israel take the world?
  A chemical attack would pale in comparison to a biological WMD attack. Some of those bugs have no treatment options or antidotes, and could continue to spread throughout a population long after the actual attack is over.  In today's highly mobile world, this type of biological epidemic could quickly spread worldwide.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on August 14, 2012, 06:18:25 PM
....The inmates are running the asylum.

Bingo.  That is the case in most of them today.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB4QAA on August 14, 2012, 10:12:03 PM
"Just a reminder that there are no immediate credible nuclear threats against the US presently"

Oh really?


"In 2001 I, as the President of the Russian Federation and the supreme commander, deemed it advantageous to withdraw the radio-electronic center Lourdes from Cuba. In exchange for this, George Bush, the then U.S. president, has assured me that this decision would become the final confirmation that the Cold War was over and both of our states, getting rid of the relics of the Cold War, will start building a new relationship based on cooperation and transparency. In particular, Bush has convinced me that the U.S. missile defense system will never be deployed in Eastern Europe.

The Russian Federation has fulfilled all terms of the agreement. And even more. I shut down not only the Cuban Lourdes but also Kamran in Vietnam. I shut them down because I gave my word of honor. I, like a man, has kept my word. What have the Americans done? The Americans are not responsible for their own words. It is no secret that in recent years, the U.S. created a buffer zone around Russia, involving in this process not only the countries of Central Europe, but also the Baltic states, Ukraine and the Caucasus. The only response to this could be an asymmetric expansion of the Russian military presence abroad, particularly in Cuba. In Cuba, there are convenient bays for our reconnaissance and warships, a network of the so-called "jump airfields." With the full consent of the Cuban leadership, on May 11 of this year, our country has not only resumed work in the electronic center of Lourdes, but also placed the latest mobile strategic nuclear missiles "Oak" on the island. They did not want to do it the amicable way, now let them deal with this," Putin said.

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/01-08-2012/121804-russia_army_base-0/
As the old Russian saying goes:
"Pravda nyet Izvestia, Izvestia nyet Pravda" or The News isn't The Truth and The Truth isn't News.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on August 15, 2012, 03:20:41 PM
Just a reminder that there are no immediate credible nuclear threats against the US presently.

-North Korea, can't reliably detonate a bomb.  The've had two 2kton fizzles.  They have no missile capable of reaching the US.

-Iran, no bomb, no missile.

-Al Qaida, no bomb, no missile, no leader, no money
no other countries represent philosophical enemies.

**I you are still intent on scarying yourself silly, then at least make a foil hat and cod piece!
     North Korea could potentially deliver a bomb in a shipping container or on a fishing boat.  Iran could buy a bomb from cash strapped North Korea, or even comrades in Pakistan.  AlQaeda might be just weeks away from seizing chemical or biological weapons inside Syria.  The military does its best to never underestimate the potential tactics or capabilities of adversaries.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE4ZHN on August 16, 2012, 06:33:03 AM
IF you survive....and IF you feel a need to try and communicate via radio...most of you forgot one thing. Most if not all of the solid state gear will be toast from the EMP...so you guys into the tube gear will be able to communicate but the guys with modern gear will most likely have very expensive paperweights. Besides, if the big one comes, the last thing Id be worried about is amateur radio..or any radio for that matter.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: ONAIR on August 16, 2012, 09:15:30 AM
IF you survive....and IF you feel a need to try and communicate via radio...most of you forgot one thing. Most if not all of the solid state gear will be toast from the EMP...so you guys into the tube gear will be able to communicate but the guys with modern gear will most likely have very expensive paperweights. Besides, if the big one comes, the last thing Id be worried about is amateur radio..or any radio for that matter.
   Glad I kept my HE-20C!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on August 17, 2012, 04:00:17 AM
....Besides, if the big one comes, the last thing Id be worried about is amateur radio..or any radio for that matter.

Now, that is the first really sensible thing said here.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KB4QAA on August 17, 2012, 05:31:13 AM
 North Korea could potentially deliver a bomb in a shipping container or on a fishing boat.  Iran could buy a bomb from cash strapped North Korea, or even comrades in Pakistan.  AlQaeda might be just weeks away from seizing chemical or biological weapons inside Syria.  The military does its best to never underestimate the potential tactics or capabilities of adversaries.
Could, maybe, If.

No military can protect against all "potential" threats.  Threats must be evaluated for credibility and likelihood.

Again, we have no indication that N. Korea can properly fire a nuclear weapon.
-We have no indication they have weaponized a nuke.

-The US Navy does not have a blockade around the US searching every ship for N. Korean nukes.  If they are not taking active measures, why should any ham act like a fool preparing for a nuclear attack from N. Korea?

-Pakistan is our ally.  We have no indication they have lost control of their nuclear arsenal or are seeking to sell them.

-Al Qaeda has never demonstrated the ability to build or buy weapons of mass destruction for use in the US.

Again, there is no credible, imminent threat of mass destruction that threatens society in the US.    There is no reason for people to act like a chicken with the sky falling!


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0SYA on August 17, 2012, 08:01:21 PM
Who is running around like a chicken? All we are saying (is give peace a chance lol) is there are mean men in control of very nasty weapons who would probably nook us if they could get away with it. I am surprised NK and Iran and the rest don't just buy their nooks from Russia or China ... or Pakistan. Probably save a lot of money that way rather than trying to roll their own and they could more easily avoid war brought on by their insistance on building their own. Who knows, mebbe they have?

http://www.wnd.com/2005/05/30113/


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on August 18, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
Could, maybe, If.

No military can protect against all "potential" threats.  Threats must be evaluated for credibility and likelihood.

Again, we have no indication that N. Korea can properly fire a nuclear weapon.
-We have no indication they have weaponized a nuke.

-The US Navy does not have a blockade around the US searching every ship for N. Korean nukes.  If they are not taking active measures, why should any ham act like a fool preparing for a nuclear attack from N. Korea?

-Pakistan is our ally.  We have no indication they have lost control of their nuclear arsenal or are seeking to sell them.

-Al Qaeda has never demonstrated the ability to build or buy weapons of mass destruction for use in the US.

Again, there is no credible, imminent threat of mass destruction that threatens society in the US.    There is no reason for people to act like a chicken with the sky falling!

I suppose you think things can't be hidden from us?  I accept that our intelligence services are good, but if a nation-state chose to hide something, it may well be a while before we get wind of it.

You speak of Pakistan being an ally, but after the job we pulled in secrecy to get Bin Laden--going into Pakistan without letting their government know--do you really think they're going to totally co-operate with us?

How about the terrorist acts that took down the WTC, took out part of the Pentagon, and almost got the White House?  Oh, yeah, we knew that they were going to happen....

The point that I'm trying to make is this.  If another nation or group chose to really hide something, they could probably hide it long enough to strike at us without us knowing.  WE'VE BEEN LUCKY.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W7HBP on August 23, 2012, 11:45:33 AM
Nuclear attacks are more survivable than you think, if you're outside the immediate blast zone. Fallout is highly radioactive - the good news is that it decays pretty quickly.

And have some potassium iodide on hand too.  ;D

I have it on hand.
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/BioterrorismandDrugPreparedness/ucm072265.htm


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: K1CJS on August 24, 2012, 04:09:07 AM
If the fallout includes certain elements, it could well have a half life of thousands of years.  That isn't 'pretty quickly' at all. 


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: LA9XSA on August 24, 2012, 01:34:46 PM
The highly reactive isotopes have the shortest half life - the fact that they decay quickly is what makes them release more radiation than isotopes with longer half life, so gamma radiation from fallout decays pretty quickly. Hours, days, or a couple of weeks of sheltering might be enough to deal with that.

What's concerning about some long-lived isotopes is that they are accumulated in the food chain and get inside our bodies. Having these particles on the ground we walk on might be harmless, but having them inside your thyroid or other cells in the body could be harmful. (Alfa particles, for example, are more energy rich than beta or gamma radiation, but they are stopped by your shoes/air before they reach your body. If you breathe in or eat alpha-emitting isotopes, however, the radiation happens inside your body.)

In long term survival plans for larger communities, one needs to consider which crops to grow; whether top soil should be removed or enriched with less radioactive minerals; whether grazing animals can be allowed to graze in areas with fallout, but will be safe to eat if allowed to eat less radioactive fodder for a few weeks before slaughter. These measures may be just as relevant for an area with fallout from a ground-level nuclear detonation as fallout from a nuclear accident. I live in an area where we got a dusting of fallout from Chernobyl, and we had to take some such measures in the agriculture sector for some years afterwards. This is manageable though, if you survive the immediate effects (initial radiation, heat, blast, gamma rays from fallout).

In fact, one interesting scenario for US people could be if there's a nuclear war between - say - Pakistan and India, or on the Korean Peninsula; the fallout (literally) from such a conflict might be dangerous in America.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JI on August 24, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
Pakistan and the rest are the least of our worries. America is dangerous for America. We are going nuts internally with nonsense and hate.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE5JPP on August 24, 2012, 04:34:54 PM
Pakistan and the rest are the least of our worries. America is dangerous for America. We are going nuts internally with nonsense and hate.

Too many morons breeding like rats and too many smart, decent people opting to not have kids.  All those moron's offspring add to the those already with their hands out on the government dole.

Gene


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JI on August 24, 2012, 07:19:34 PM
Too many morons breeding like rats and too many smart, decent people opting to not have kids.  All those moron's offspring add to the those already with their hands out on the government dole.

Gene


Actually the problem is not just the people on welfare. Look at any graph of the budget.

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_2012_4.html

Watch the movie Idiocracy with Luke Wilson. It's like our future, especially the politicians. We are just getting dumber across the board, especially with the people we elect.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N0YXB on August 24, 2012, 07:44:40 PM
The D students have taken over.  Look at the success of The Kardashians and Jersey Shore, etc. celebrating stupidity.  Then there's Congress...


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KE5JPP on August 25, 2012, 05:55:17 AM
Too many morons breeding like rats and too many smart, decent people opting to not have kids.  All those moron's offspring add to the those already with their hands out on the government dole.

Gene


Actually the problem is not just the people on welfare. Look at any graph of the budget.

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_2012_4.html

Watch the movie Idiocracy with Luke Wilson. It's like our future, especially the politicians. We are just getting dumber across the board, especially with the people we elect.

Yep, I wasn't talking about Welfare only.  

Gene


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KL3HY on September 13, 2012, 02:23:38 PM
[...] celebrating stupidity.  Then there's Congress...

Redundant.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: HS0ZIB on September 19, 2012, 06:39:47 PM
Quote
You need to move!  Get a place out in the middle of nowhere

I'm in remote Burma - think I should be pretty safe :)

Simon


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KH6AQ on September 20, 2012, 12:56:59 AM
Too many morons breeding like rats and too many smart, decent people opting to not have kids.  All those moron's offspring add to the those already with their hands out on the government dole.

Gene


Actually the problem is not just the people on welfare. Look at any graph of the budget.

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_2012_4.html

Watch the movie Idiocracy with Luke Wilson. It's like our future, especially the politicians. We are just getting dumber across the board, especially with the people we elect.

The movie Idiocracy is entertaining but it is a fantasy.

In our real world the IQ trend in the US (and elsewhere) has been moving upward at the rate of 3 IQ points per decade. This is called the Flynn Effect and the IQ increase is concentrated mainly at the lower IQs. This trend leads to a reduction in the number of low-IQ persons.


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: N6JSX on September 21, 2012, 03:30:43 PM
I want to be at/under the big flash. ;D   In the Navy I was trained on Nuke and I'll take myself out before dieing form radiation poisoning.  ???
 
A very somber movie was made in the 60's  based on a Russian exchange, "On The Beach", Gregory Peck. A truly thought provoking gloom and doom movie. In the 80's it was remade but with China as the bad guys. Both were very sad. I did some research and found that IF there is an exchange of 20 conventional nukes, humanity is doomed as the radiation will kill all (the premise of On The Beach). Note the max numbers of Nukes in EU & India is just enough to insure the earth gets poisoned for all.  >:(

As far as HAM'ing, I heard stories that when the Bikini blast happened HF RF Comms were dead for the following three days and it took about a week to return to normal. I can't imagine how long SAT Comms and GPS will be down or how the ISS crew will get home.  :o


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: W8JI on September 23, 2012, 07:52:38 PM
The movie Idiocracy is entertaining but it is a fantasy.

Darn, I thought it was real.



Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KH6AQ on September 24, 2012, 11:10:17 AM
I did some research and found that IF there is an exchange of 20 conventional nukes, humanity is doomed as the radiation will kill all

I do wonder if 20 fission nuclear weapons would be that bad. The US detonated 99 atomic weapons above ground in Nevada, 1 in New Mexico, and 126 elsewhere. Add to this the above ground tests by the USSR, China, the French, and others and it comes to 750 above ground nuclear detonations over a period of 20 years.

And by "conventional nuke" do you mean fission devices (fission and fusion-boosted fission) rather than thermonuclear (fission-fusion and fission-fusion-fission)?


Title: RE: Big Nuclear booms Come?
Post by: KH6AQ on September 24, 2012, 11:33:08 AM
The movie Idiocracy is entertaining but it is a fantasy.

Darn, I thought it was real.



LOL, Tom, here's an interesting book you might like to read. From it I surmise that in the future human IQ will regress. The Flynn effect is only temporary and the future does look iffy. I read it on my Kindle. If I can figure out how to loan or give away Kindle books you are welcome to it.

The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution, by Cochran and Harpending