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eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 05:58:49 AM



Title: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 05:58:49 AM
Guys,

I have grown tired of reading about how to learn CW and decided to start actually doing it!  I am using the "Just Learn Morse Code" program and I am on my fourth letter after my first session using a 20WPM character speed and a 15WPM spacing.

I get very anxious when going through the exercises, and if I get stuck on a character or doubt my answer, I dwell on it causing me to miss even more characters.  I expect the proper thing to do is just to "let go" and not worry about that lost bit. 

Does anybody have any alternate suggestions or ideas that might help?

73

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K8AXW on May 14, 2012, 07:29:09 AM
Why not simply stop and "dwell on it"?  Run it through your mind over and over..... then start the session again.  Sometimes you need to feed the need!


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 07:48:21 AM
I did that this morning, I stopped for about 10 minutes and started again.  It worked out much better, than the process started all over again when I added another letter.   :o

Oddly enough I also noticed myself just zoning out.  I'm not sure what that was about, but I will continue to see if it gets better and work to find out what I can do to help focus.

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 14, 2012, 08:05:42 AM
For every session you actually try to score, maybe try several sessions where you just listen; no typing, no pressure...


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: NA7U on May 14, 2012, 09:04:28 AM
Robert,

What you're experiencing is completely normal. There are a minority who have an aptitude for things like the Code (not me!), the rest of us must work at it, and then work at it some more. You have to "let go" indeed, let your brain's learning process do what it must do. I'm happy to see that you are using a high enough overall speed and character speed to overcome the natural urge to count dits and dahs (never do that!).

Some suggestions:
- if you have a receiver, tune it to CW bands and just leave it on in the background while you do other things. You'll be surprised how much this helps. Even better than using an RX (IMHO) is to tune into CW using one of the many WebSDR sites. This way you can even see the signals and not waste time turning the dial on the RX hunting.
- don't just use one program. G4FON I can recommend as it has a lot of settings you can play with so you don't get in a rut for too long (but expect plateaus in your learning, that's part of the process). One thing about the Koch method is, if you use it straight, is that when you get up to about 10 characters or so you are hearing a lot less of the new characters. G4FON or maybe the program you're using, can compensate for that.
- always try to use a speed that feels like it is just beyond your comprehension. That's how you increase speed. When you're getting above 80% copy, move the speed up a notch.
- most of all, have fun with it. If you think you're anxious now, just wait until you have your first CW QSO! :)  We all go through this, so don't worry, keep your eyes on the prize, it will be worth it.

73,

Casey, TI2/NA7U http://cloud-warmer.blogspot.com


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 14, 2012, 10:02:40 AM
overcome the natural urge to count dits and dahs (never do that!)

Be warned. That's a horribly easy urge to fall for, and a very tricky habit to break...


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N5XM on May 14, 2012, 10:25:35 AM
We all have anxiety when we start.  Just consider it a fact!  Practice receiving and sending off the air.  Listen to QSOs and be patient.  Nothing worth having happens overnight!  I'm dyslexic and have a high frequency loss but can now send and recdeive 40+wpm.  It didn't happen overnight.  It has to be a long term project.  You must be patient and persistent.  There is no other way.  Good luck!


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 10:41:31 AM
All,

Thank you very much for your help and words of encouragement.  I have no intentions on giving up, just someone in shock at my brains reaction.   ;)

I learned another letter during lunch, so I am making progress, I just need to calm down.  My "buffer" is starting to work better, but trying to "let go" of the lost characters is proving difficult.

I expect as I practice more and more my nerves will settle, or not, either way I find the challenge exciting and look forward to the end result!

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on May 14, 2012, 10:48:16 AM
Hi Robert,

You decided to become a real ham. Welcome as possibly future  member  of the pig society.

Remember that from the 100 starters at most 5 will be successful, so be sure what you want, may be you spent your time preferably CB wise with talking chit chat in a mike as appliance operator of a commercial available transceiver.

Best thing to do is pay me 100 bucks and when you succeed you get 200 in return, when you fail nothing. That is the easiest way for me to grow rich.

OK, you did 4 characters in a short time and you thought probably 4 characters in 24 hours that makes 40 characters in 10 days.

That is not true because choosing one out of 40 is more complex then one out of 4. (Think back at the dating time when you were a youngster)

So take your time, every day 15 minutes AT LEAST and EVERY day . When your mother in law passed away and you hence are missing a day,. catch up next day.

Report back about you progress right here after a year from now, and tell us how far you are advanced.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 11:17:09 AM
Hi Robert,

You decided to become a real ham. Welcome as possibly future  member  of the pig society.

Remember that from the 100 starters at most 5 will be successful, so be sure what you want, may be you spent your time preferably CB wise with talking chit chat in a mike as appliance operator of a commercial available transceiver.

Best thing to do is pay me 100 bucks and when you succeed you get 200 in return, when you fail nothing. That is the easiest way for me to grow rich.

OK, you did 4 characters in a short time and you thought probably 4 characters in 24 hours that makes 40 characters in 10 days.

That is not true because choosing one out of 40 is more complex then one out of 4. (Think back at the dating time when you were a youngster)

So take your time, every day 15 minutes AT LEAST and EVERY day . When your mother in law passed away and you hence are missing a day,. catch up next day.

Report back about you progress right here after a year from now, and tell us how far you are advanced.

I have no fantasies about how long this will take.  I expect the more characters are introduced the more confusing it will be.  I also expect some characters to take longer to learn than others.

I will have been licensed for a year on June 3rd and I am restricted to attic antennas until I can sort out a stealth solution for the back yard.  In the meantime I have spent most of my time on the digital modes and have now chosen to learn the "Original Digital Mode".

I have also spent some time doing portable operations, but lugging a FT-450 around isn't conducive to that style of operation, so I have chosen to learn CW and intend on purchasing a small portable transceiver and spend the majority of my time operating QRP.

Thanks again for your response...

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VK2FAK on May 14, 2012, 04:59:42 PM
Hi All...

I understand all about that "zoning out" I amaze myself at times at what is going through my head during a practice session.....then have to try get the mind back in the game....

But I do find that when I have zoned out as you say, I have made no errors during that time......so regardless of what your thinking about,  the mind just keeps on decoding...lol

This may come in handy at some stage...just think, you may be able think about what you will send next, while decoding the incoming CW.

John


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VA7CPC on May 14, 2012, 05:24:49 PM
. . .
I get very anxious when going through the exercises, and if I get stuck on a character or doubt my answer, I dwell on it causing me to miss even more characters.  I expect the proper thing to do is just to "let go" and not worry about that lost bit. 

Does anybody have any alternate suggestions or ideas that might help?
 
. . .

Decoding Morse is a "hard real-time problem".  That is, the "correct answer" is useless if it comes too late!

So your analysis of what's wrong is correct, and so is your corrective action:

. . . Don't hassle yourself over missed characters.

It's easier said than done!

Just a half hour _every day_, and don't beat yourself up during practice. 

             Charles

PS -- After you've learned all the letters and numbers, you can start working with RufzXP, a "callsign-practice" program.   It gives you two chances to hear a _whole callsign_, and speeds up a little bit if you get it right.  And it slows down a little, if you get it wrong.

It's a fiendishly addictive way to practice.  But you must master the alphabet and numbers, first.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: STAYVERTICAL on May 14, 2012, 05:28:34 PM
Hi Robert,

What you are feeling is perfectly normal, and the advice already given is mostly good.
We have all had the same reactions when we started learning code I am sure.
It seems that whenever I learn something new, even now, I go through the "totally clueless" stage,
followed by frustration, and finally enlightenment.

The nice thing is that when you get that "eureka" moment, the previous stages are forgotten.
I am so used to this stepped process that I wait for the eureka moment these days, and knowing
it is surely on its way encourages me to keep plodding along.

You will get there, I am certain.

73 - Rob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N3JJT on May 14, 2012, 05:35:30 PM
Robert:  Totally natural to feel this way.  Keep going!  As you are copying down the letters, and you miss one, just put a tick mark on the paper, and listen for the next.  It will not show you much during random letters, but later when you are receiving text, and place a tick mark on a missed letter, chances are good you can go back and fill in the missing letter.  Speed will develop on its own thru time as you learn the code better.  Good quality code is the key.  Once you have mastered the code, put the pencil down and start listening for "words", not so much the letters.  This will increase the enjoyment of operating cw as a language.  A good suggestion already listed...turn cw on in the background while you are in the shack.  Another big one...never get discouraged, and never over take your lessons.  15 to 20 minutes a session, 2 times a day if possible, but no more.  Everday....When you start practicing sending, send text from the paper or a magazine...send it as you read it..very good practice.

GL..73  de N3JJT  Scott


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 14, 2012, 05:56:19 PM
One thing about the Koch method is, if you use it straight, is that when you get up to about 10 characters or so you are hearing a lot less of the new characters.

The program he is using not only feeds him more of the last characters he learned but it also feeds him more of the ones he misses the most.  Most other programs can't do that, because they don't evaluate his performance in real time.

73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VK2FAK on May 14, 2012, 06:20:38 PM
Hi All..

I don't remember reading that he types ...so I will just ask the question....

The only way the program works like that is if you type..

Robert are you typing or using Pad and pen/pencil...

But this is not really about the Program...its about the mental processes..

John


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 07:14:31 PM
Wow, the number of responses is amazing!  I never expected so much support and I am very grateful to each of you.   ;D

Sigurd,

Thank you very much for your excellent program!  I use it because of its flexibility, ease of use, and the fact that it adapts to my mistakes.  It seems to me, the ability to adapt to my errors and provide those characters more often provides a more accurate assessment of my progress.  The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

John,

Yes, I type responses back into Sigurd's software and it evaluates my responses in real time and adapts presenting the characters most often missed the most.

Scott,

Thank you for your words of encouragement.  I am still working through what parts of my day practicing best fits in, but I will find time as this is something I am very excited to learn and I find it a challenge.

Rob,

I understand what you mean.  I find that moment exists with each letter.. lol

Charles,

Thank you.  I look forward to getting to that stage.  Callsign practice is what I plan to do after getting comfortable with all of the characters.  Some time practicing callsigns and other times practicing common words is the current plan.

John,

I look forward to reaching that point.  Right now I think my "zoning out" is more of a brain overload.  I have to consciously bring myself back and keep going.   :P

73,

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 14, 2012, 07:24:08 PM
The only way the program works like that is if you type..

That is simply not true.

All you have to do is input the characters.  This can be done by any input method, e.g. voice recognition or handwriting recognition.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 14, 2012, 07:27:36 PM
The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 07:36:28 PM
The only way the program works like that is if you type..

That is simply not true.

All you have to do is input the characters.  This can be done by any input method, e.g. voice recognition or handwriting recognition.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


I am curious to try voice recognition at some point.  I expect that would most closely simulate "head copy".

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 14, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)

Excellent!  Thanks again for all of your effort.

Robert


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5MF on May 15, 2012, 03:08:42 AM
I think you will find that the alphabet characters come fairly quickly.  But remember that when you have all 26 characters down, you are halfway done.  The numbers, punctuation, and pro-signs is where I started getting hung up.  Then you have to get online and learn all of the cw lingo and abbreviations before you can really communicate.  I am not trying to discourage you.  On the contrary, I am having great fun learning CW because I love a challenge and have not set any artificial time limits on myself.  You'll get there, just never give up and have fun with it.  You can do it!


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on May 15, 2012, 04:39:38 AM


That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)

First of all: I use your program on a daily basis, thanks for making it.
\However testing and recording progress is pretty difficult. You have to measure errors, and that is where your program sucks.

Demo: I make a text file of 15 words space separated PARIS speed 15 wpm duration 1 minute
I type as response to the morse 15 times SIRAP space separated.
Code:
Result: hits  misses
A          0      15
I          0      15
space      6       8
S          8       7
P         15       0
R         15       0

Bob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N0BLT on May 15, 2012, 08:41:50 AM
Guys,
     I have grown tired of reading about how to learn CW and decided to start actually doing it!  I am using the "Just Learn Morse Code" program and I am on my fourth letter after my first session using a 20WPM character speed and a 15WPM spacing.
     I get very anxious when going through the exercises, and if I get stuck on a character or doubt my answer, I dwell on it causing me to miss even more characters.  I expect the proper thing to do is just to "let go" and not worry about that lost bit.  
     Does anybody have any alternate suggestions or ideas that might help?
73
Robert


Robert,
     I too am determined I WILL conquer this code thing.  I've been using Just Learn Morse Code program also. THANK YOU SIGURD!
I got up to 8 characters at 20 WPM copying by pencil & paper.  Lots easier to learn it at 20wpm now, rather than 10wpm, then try to speed up later (after knowing all 40 characters)  
     Then I came across a forum thread discussing the merits of loosing the pencil & paper, and instead, copy in the head.  I've become a convert, because I saw my own inability to comprehend what I was writing in real time.  It's like I had an AUTO HAND, that was mindlessly scribbling.  I was way to concerned about writing & not comprehending.  (pencil hand kinda cramped too)
     Isn't comprehending what code is all about?  A poster on this forum said he saw himself doing this with a typewriter, also.  He, being very accurate, but having NO IDEA WHAT the meaning of the text was that he was actually typing.  
     I have had to REALLY SLOW down in learning code, to build my mental buffer not only build my letter recognition, but assemble WORDS in my mind WHILE listening to 4, 5, & 6 letter groups (which are actually words).  Loosing the pencil and using word groups make it much more fun, and give me the ability to copy ANYWHERE, anytime, while listening to my mp3 player.  It seems as though my time expectations have lowered (when I'll be done and on the air), and my code learning has overall drastically slowed!   Oh well, maybe by the time I'm ready to kick the bucket and got arthritis, I'll be ready to have my 20wpm or higher CW QSO's doing QRP.  So what, the learning is fun, and the goal is to not struggle later.
     I took the letters "kmrsuapt" (the ones I knew at 20wpm) and threw in the letter "o" and "e" and put them in a SCRABBLE WORD FINDER and out popped a huge list of words.  I filtered out the obscure ones and mixed them up and came out with...

(I'd recomend NOT throwing in the "e" without really thinking about it tho, because it is a VERY fast letter, and offers you NO TIME to think about it AT ALL)

5 letter
arts  paste  turks  pause  peats  taker  pesto  kraut poems  poets  ramps   makes  poker  prose  pukes  maker   saute  serum   rakes  takes  setup  tamer  mopes  rapes  tames  skate   tamps  parks  taper  parts  tarps  smart  paste  taupe  smear  teaks  metro  pause  teams  smoke  tears  peaks  opera  smote  tempo  sorta  temps  pears  spare  terms  peats  spark  armour  rates  pesto  tears speak  tempo  spear  mares  temps  sperm  reams  terms  poems   proms  kaput   reaps  poets  remap  spoke  spore  sport  mutes  poker  repos  tours  spout  pokes  toker  marks  tramp  spurt  pokes  pores  trams  pores  meats  moats   porks  roams  stake  stamp  ports  karts  roast  stare  pours  tromp  porks  ports romps  stark  peaks  pears  steak  erupt  pouts trump  arose  steam  traps  ropes  stoke  treks  marts  stomp  route  mates  stork  storm  strap  strep  pours  pouts  rumps  prose  strum  stump  pukes  super  mouse  outer  sutra  upset  autos  morse  proms

4 letter
take oaks  rake park ramp part same maps tame make  past mare atom sake pats rums  seam  peak oars taos  sear mark rams tamp mart  stop marst rape pear ears peas raps peat rasp kept  smut tape mask perk mast trek mate seat  auto taps amok tare rate soak  perm mask mast tarp soap trap rats oats mate peso pest east soar rust tusk some mats step meat teak mesa pets task ream sump user reap poem amps team reps sort poet moat eats opts tear repo mope sore mops poke pore  ruts pork rest temp soup roam more arms sour most teas mote port  pose post  term romp sure  apes muse rope musk toes spar ours must spam pots  pour rote  spat pout muse true rots musk spot tope arse oust toke must prom  stem puke pure rout mute tops star muts tour rump puts arts spur outs

7 letter
 muskrat upskirt tourism airpost parties pasteur stamper irksome tempura pastime stomper  pasture impetus stumper pirates imprest posture mistake  primate promise  mortise supremo traipse upraise
6 letter
amuser armies armpit aspire atrium autism eskimo esprit europa impart import impose impost impure impute kaiser kermit market markup masker master mature merits mister moirae mouser muskat musket opiate ouster pastie pastor peoria permit persia pirate poster pouter praise presto priest primus purest purism satire septum skater smoker soaker sortie sprite sprout stoker streak stream strike stripe stroke tamper tapers tempra topeka troupe truism trumps umpire upmost uprise uptake utopia

     I put the above text word files into Just Learn Morse Code program, and generated the audio files. Then I loaded them onto my mp3 player and now LISTEN to them RELIGIOUSLY on my daily bicycle rides.  I really get in the groove much more than sitting at a desk for some reason.  Don't ask me why, but It works and I enjoy it HUGELY.

I have many more word groups using less or more letters if any peeps need them.

Brian

Here is a frequency of use list (from wiki) for each letter of the alphabet by percent...
E12.7% T9.06 A8.17 O7.51 I6.97 N6.75  S6.33  H6.09 R5.99 D4.25  L 4.025  C2.78  U2.76  M2.41 W2.36 F2.23 G 2.015 Y1.97  P1.93 X1.5 B1.49 V.98  K.77 J.15 Q.095 Z.074  
I'm not sure why the various Kotch programs choose the letters "U,M,P, & K" as some of the first to learn, when they don't fall into the higher used common letters. The letter "U" is the least frequently found vowel in the most common words in the English language.

 I can see the "K" as important to hams though, because of its use in callsigns.  If the higher rated words were used (and learned) first (within reason) you could possibly find more words to generate by the online scrabble word finders, and add to a Morse learners audio file.  Doesn't matter much as you have mastered the alphabet.  I'd save the longer letters like "P" for later tho.    Makes you wonder though.  There must be a good reason for the letters used in the progression while learning.  


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 15, 2012, 11:12:17 AM
The scrabble word finder's a good idea. I'd love to see something like that built in as an option in a morse training program.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N0BLT on May 15, 2012, 12:05:23 PM
my fave Scrabble word finder site is http://www.scrabbleaword.com/  I think thats the one that lets you put in the most characters at a time.  Important when you want to use 9,10 11, or 12 char's.

http://lcwo.net/  DOES have RANDOM WORD exercises after you have learned 9 characters.  The order of char's is different tho, from "Just Learning Morse Code" program. I like "Just Learning Morse Code"  better cuz I end up making almost all my random word files to study from.  I can optimize them when needed.  I made a file that starts with all words starting in "T", because for some reason, I'd paper/pencil copy my "t"s fine (at 20wpm), but for some reason when head copying "t"s, I think they are "m"s.  So now I have been taking a lot of "T" therapy bicycle rides.  Listening to my file of words starting with T.    turks taker takes tames tamer tamps taper tarps taupe teaks teams tears tempo temps terms teares tempo temps terms tiers timer times tires tours toker tramp trams trike trims tromp trump traps treks tries take time tame trim tike tips taos tamp tape trek taps tare tire tarp trap ties tusk teak task team tier tear trio temp teas trip term toes true tope tops tour team toke
     And lots of words that have t's in them...  stair stake stamp stare stark steak steam stoke stomp stork storm strap strep strip strum stump stop step stir stem star
stair stake stamp stare stark steak steam stoke stomp stork storm strap strep strip strum stump stop step stir stem star arts paste peats pesto kraut poets irate saute omits setup situp moist skate parts skirt smart paste smite metro miter smote emits sorta peats rates pesto   
HA ha, he he!
     It's definitely more frustrating learning to head copy, for the sake of building that mental buffer.  I'm sure in the future I'll be glad I did learn my letters slowly adding one at a time while keeping at 20wpm head copy now, vs being paper/pencil dependant at 10-13wpm and try to speed up later.  Some say it's almost impossible to speed up (from 10wpm) because they never really quit mentally translating dots and dashes as they learned the entire character set.

1st 9 letters taught in each program...
LCWO site...              K M U R E S N A P    
JLMC prog...              K M R S U A P T L    
freq of use in english   E T A O I N S H R    
 
Whole list
LCWO site...   K M U R E S N A P     T L W I  . J  Z = F O Y , V G 5 / Q 9 2 H 3 8 B ? 4 7 C 1 D 6 0 X
Just Learn Morse Code prog...
                   K M R S U A P T L     O W I .  N J  E F 0 Y V , G 5  / Q 9 Z H 3 8 B ? 4 2 7 C 1 D 6 X @ =  sk   ar  as  cl  kn  ka

freq of use in english
                   E T A O I N S H R      D L C U M W F G Y P X B V K J Q Z


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 15, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
\However testing and recording progress is pretty difficult. You have to measure errors, and that is where your program sucks.

Demo: I make a text file of 15 words space separated PARIS speed 15 wpm duration 1 minute
I type as response to the morse 15 times SIRAP space separated.
Code:
Result: hits  misses
A          0      15
I          0      15
space      6       8
S          8       7
P         15       0
R         15       0

Oh yeah ?  And how exactly would you rate that performance yourself ?

Give a step by step procedure.


For your example text and response, Just Learn Morse Code gives you 15 hits on P (100%) and 14 hits on space (100%).  Everything else gets a zero score.


LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 15, 2012, 01:16:34 PM
when you have all 26 characters down, you are halfway done.  The numbers, punctuation, and pro-signs is where I started getting hung up.

That is only problem for people who learn the characters first, and then the numbers.  Sensible learning systems gives you a mix from early on.

Punctuation is hardly used, so that can wait.  Most people only use 2-3 prosigns and they are easy to pick up later on.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 16, 2012, 03:41:44 AM
1st 9 letters taught in each program...
LCWO site...              K M U R E S N A P    
JLMC prog...              K M R S U A P T L    
freq of use in english   E T A O I N S H R

The frequency of use in English is not particularly relevant, given amateur QSOs will contain plenty of abbreviations (like Q codes) and callsigns to skew the distribution. For learning it's far more important to get a balance between usefulness, recognisability and speed. I figure E is far too early in the LCWO progression. When it's introduced it makes the apparent speed leap up. Similarly, but not quite so badly, for T in the G4FON and JLMC sequences.

It's a pity that most of these programs have no option to choose a different sequence. It'd be nice to be able to swap between them, go to lesson 13 (or wherever) and know they were all using the same progression (even if you had to configure that progression yourself first time round).


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: NA7U on May 16, 2012, 09:53:27 AM
Quote
<snip for brevity>

It's a pity that most of these programs have no option to choose a different sequence. It'd be nice to be able to swap between them, go to lesson 13 (or wherever) and know they were all using the same progression (even if you had to configure that progression yourself first time round).

That's quite easy to do in G4FON. Simply increment the character count to 40 then go into Settings and all the characters will be there with a checkbox by each one. Just uncheck the ones you don't want to learn. Fully customizable.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on May 16, 2012, 10:10:52 AM
\However testing and recording progress is pretty difficult. You have to measure errors, and that is where your program sucks.

Demo: I make a text file of 15 words space separated PARIS speed 15 wpm duration 1 minute
I type as response to the morse 15 times SIRAP space separated.
Code:
Result: hits  misses
A          0      15
I          0      15
space      6       8
S          8       7
P         15       0
R         15       0

Oh yeah ?  And how exactly would you rate that performance yourself ?

Give a step by step procedure.

Well according to the reply you give, my remark is obviously pretty stupid in your eyes.

The program sents
PARIS PARIS PARIS PARIS ... 15 times total and I reply  
SIRAP SIRAP SIRAP SIRAP ...

So ALL the spaces are correct and NOT 6 out of 15 (first error in calculating errors)

Furthermore ALWAYS the P is subsituted by S , the A by I, the I by A and the S by P,
so those 4 characters are 100 percent in error, that makes 15 misses and zero hits foe each of the four.

However as you can see, the P is claimed to have 15 hits in stead of zero (second error in calculating erors)
The S is claimed 8 hits, instead of zero (third error in calculating errors)

Total number of errors actually made by consistently typing SIRAP instead of PARIS 15 times in a row were
60 and the hits 29 (when the last space is not calculated)

Your program however reports 44 hits (50% too high) and  45 misses , as specified in detail in my posting.

73
Bob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 16, 2012, 11:40:43 AM
That's quite easy to do in G4FON. Simply increment the character count to 40 then go into Settings and all the characters will be there with a checkbox by each one. Just uncheck the ones you don't want to learn. Fully customizable.

There's a similar hack in LCWO.net, but it's fairly tedious to set up, and you lose any "make most recently added character happen more often" functions. You also lose the lesson progress tracking, but that might be seen as an advantage...


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 16, 2012, 12:03:57 PM
It's a pity that most of these programs have no option to choose a different sequence. It'd be nice to be able to swap between them, go to lesson 13 (or wherever) and know they were all using the same progression (even if you had to configure that progression yourself first time round).

That's not entirely correct.  In JLMC you can use the [/Source/Selected characters] mode and enter any letters you want to practice.  On a side note, you can also use that to have some characters occur more often by including them more than once.


You do have a point, though, and I have addressed it in the next version.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 16, 2012, 12:37:47 PM
Well according to the reply you give, my remark is obviously pretty stupid in your eyes.

Your program however reports 44 hits (50% too high) and  45 misses , as specified in detail in my posting.

My response was colored by the fact that I thought you were trolling.  I still think you are.

Most people who think they have found a bug and want to "share" send an email.  My email address is easily accessible from a number of sources.


You're claiming that JLMC sucks when it comes to scoring.  I'm claiming it's the best scoring available, as it rates your performance in real time and maximizes your score when you make mistakes.


I have told you how the performance is rated when I use your example text and input.  The precise score may be affected by when you input what, but there should not be any way to get a higher score than what I said.


If you really have a problem with the software, feel free to contact me by email.  I'd be happy to help you out, and if you find a bug I will fix it.


LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on May 16, 2012, 03:25:33 PM
Well according to the reply you give, my remark is obviously pretty stupid in your eyes.

Your program however reports 44 hits (50% too high) and  45 misses , as specified in detail in my posting.

My response was colored by the fact that I thought you were trolling.  I still think you are.
No, not at all. May be the wrong use of a foreign language at my side.

I don't want you to correct anything,  I just take and use the program as is. I only think it is not very usefull to make graphs of progress, what you said to plan, when the progress /errorrate is not measured correct.

I understand that it is very difficult to measure the errors in a text, because there may be or may be not a delay between sent and entered text. No problem when error free, but in the case of errors you have to catch the next correct text, and you do not know where that starts. Especially not when the error rate increases. That may require correlation of strings etc.

It is not a point here, I am not interested in progress because I know that is very slow and normally  hidden deep in the daily noise, and I don't need graphs and numbers in order to keep being motivated, or increase motivation. I just exercise for years already high speed on a daily basis, and that's it. Motivated or not.

When you want speed progress, and your development of skill is not in your personal saturation area, it is well known that you gain speed when you overload yourself with higher speed, and go back to the desired speed. A program is the correct way to practice that method. Not QSO rag chewing.



So I do not say that you are not doing a good job, I just experienced that the errorcounting was in error, and I did a little test to proof that.

Bob




Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 16, 2012, 05:48:13 PM
I just experienced that the errorcounting was in error, and I did a little test to proof that.

To me, that is a problem when you throw that out in a public forum but are not willing to find out if you are right.

Like I said, I am not able to reproduce the scores you claim to see.  I also explained how JLMC may score the performance example you gave.


Aside from that, you are wrong about how to best score a performance.  You put way too much emphasis on character position, i.e. R and space should be scored correctly in your example and everything else should be errors.  That's a rather primitive way to do the scoring, and if you rely on a method like that you will not get sensible scores when you make more subtle mistakes.

For instance, the system may send PARIS and you enter PRIS.  How many mistakes are there ?  JLMC will tell you that there is one, as long as you enter each character after it is sent.

The system sends ABCDE and you enter ACBDE.  How many errors ?  You will claim there are two, JLMC correctly only reports one.  (The system sent 5 characters, you entered 5 characters, 4 of your characters matched the sent text in correct order.  The 4 matches would be ACDE or ABDE depending on weather.)

There are many subtleties like that, and you will only grasp why it should work like that if you spend time on trying to understand instead of just throwing out complaints based on your lack of knowledge.


LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VK2FAK on May 16, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
Hi all..

Yet another thread hijacked .....the thread is called.... Anxiety

the name of the program was just given as additional information....

So can we go back to the mental issues and problems associated with CW...

John



Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 16, 2012, 07:30:00 PM
Hijacked by whom ?  He threw out false accusations in a public forum and I did try to get him to deal with it by email.

You also made statements about said software that called for a response.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VK2FAK on May 16, 2012, 11:55:05 PM
HI all....

Not pointing the finger at anyone.....everyone played a part..

And yes I did make a comment and I stand by it...I said your software....I did not  say using other software to connect to or add to yours..

I think everyone is in agreement here...we like your program and would say everyone here has used it at one time or another......but still, the leading post was about Anxiety.....

And we all went through that or are still going though that.....it raises its ugly head now and then...

John

John


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on May 17, 2012, 01:20:18 AM
And yes I did make a comment and I stand by it...I said your software....I did not  say using other software to connect to or add to yours..

That's like saying a Yaesu rig can't be used for CW because you have to attach a key or a pair of paddles to it.

There is nothing in any of the software I make, that dictates what kind of input device can be used.  I really don't see why you think it's right to hold flexibility against me.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 17, 2012, 03:09:44 AM
the leading post was about Anxiety...

Aye. In the learning there're plenty of ways that can come in; trying to catch every character when they're coming at you just a bit too much too fast, trying to type (write, speak, or otherwise record) what you've just heard whilst still listening for the next, and so on. I guess the trick is probably to identify the anxiety trigger-point, and then move it so it's triggered less often...

For me, the crunch is mostly from missing next few characters while I'm trying to record the ones I've just heard. There's an "it all falls apart" point that seems to depend on a number of things; the session length, the tone pitch and quality of the morse, the relative frequency of short morse characters, the word length, and so on.

On a good day, with G4FON set to a frequency around 400-450 Hz, the volume fairly low, a little added random noise, and morse at 15/13, two-minute sessions (typically around 150 characters) are usually comfortable. That seems to be about my limit for actually recording what I hear. Raise the pitch, or make the tone too pure, or too loud, or the word speed any much faster, and it all falls apart; ears ringing, fingers cramping...


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on May 17, 2012, 04:09:59 AM
I just experienced that the errorcounting was in error, and I did a little test to proof that.

To me, that is a problem when you throw that out in a public forum but are not willing to find out if you are right.

I replied on postings from your hand made in the public in this thread. And furthermore you are denying the result of my simple test  in public, and inviting me in public to describe stepwise.  So  I wrote in public the simple test I performed, in order to give some fundament to my feelings that the errorscore is at fault

Quote
Like I said, I am not able to reproduce the scores you claim to see.  I also explained how JLMC may score the performance example you gave.

Everybody reading this and interested, is able to check it by trying it for himself.
I put the speed on 15/15 made a testfile PARIS PARIS ... 15 times repeated.
Play the file and during playing type in the same way I should decode Morse signals but wrong by typing SIRAP SIRAP etc.

The copy is on the screen, and just as meant to be.
May be I do something stupid. When that is true, OK, that is science, I did the best I can, everybody can repeat my test and find out for himself.

Quote
Aside from that, you are wrong about how to best score a performance.  You put way too much emphasis on character position, i.e. R and space should be scored correctly in your example and everything else should be errors.  That's a rather primitive way to do the scoring, and if you rely on a method like that you will not get sensible scores when you make more subtle mistakes.

Sensible way should be the Levenshtein distance, (Wikipaedia explains)  that means roughly the number of strictly defined edit operations required,are the number of errors.

I repeat:
I am not proposing a better way to count errors, I only posted that it has in my opinion no sense to publish graphs when the data the gtaphs are based on are insufficient reliable.

Quote
For instance, the system may send PARIS and you enter PRIS.  How many mistakes are there ?  JLMC will tell you that there is one, as long as you enter each character after it is sent.

OK, how many errors has the system to present when I repeatedly type SAPIR instead od PARIS?
Not the number I experienced and you could not reproduce.


I am not proposing another method of error counting because:

 I am not interested at all in the produced figures by the program because I felt they were not correct and furthermore because I am interested in exercising and not in errors numbers.

Bob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: VK2FAK on May 17, 2012, 04:26:20 AM
Hi all...

M0LEP.......you run it for 2mins.....   simple thing I would do is extend that time to say 5+ mins.

When I set the time short I tend to get half way through and the head starts thinking "almost there".....and the trouble begins..

Just keep copying as long as you can...no set time....gets rid of one thing the head can mess you up with...the expectation of finishing.

You set the tone to 400-450, do you have a side tone on your radio, if so, is it also 400-450.....if not I'm thinking it would be a good idea to set both the same or very close to it...

John


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on May 17, 2012, 05:14:15 AM
you run it for 2mins.....   simple thing I would do is extend that time to say 5+ mins.

When I'm trynig to make a record of the characters I've heard it's a matter of the longer it runs the worse it gets. If the session's too long then there will be holes in my record of it, and that just makes things more frustrating.

Just keep copying as long as you can...no set time....gets rid of one thing the head can mess you up with...the expectation of finishing.

With me it's not so much "almost there" as "I can't keep this up much longer", and occasionally "I can't stand any more of this" (usually because my ears have started ringing).

You set the tone to 400-450

Only the RockMite has a fixed side-tone. The others are variable in steps, and I have them set around 400-450.

I find it helps not to use the same tone all the time, or my ears start ringing sooner, and once they start I've no choice but to take a break for however long it takes for them to stop, and then some. Lower volume, lower pitch, slight pitch variations, and a little added background noise all help keep my ears from ringing.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5DTE on May 17, 2012, 09:00:41 AM
I also run for only 2-3 minutes.  If I try to run for 5 minutes, my mind starts to wonder.  I guess it gets bored of hearing the same tones over and over.

I expect an actual QSO would be different as you are actually trying to copy meaningful information instead of individual characters.

I am still doing well so far in maintaining my 1 character a day goal.  I am sure some days will be better than others, but as long as I am making progress I am happy.

I look forward to being able to participate in the Sprints, like the NAQCC event last night that I did some listening to.

73,

Robert
K5DTE


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: AC4RD on May 17, 2012, 09:22:34 AM

So can we go back to the mental issues and problems associated with CW...


John, I am a walking CATALOG of "mental issues and problems associated with CW."   ;)

Last night I heard ZB2FK on 17m CW.  This guy is a great operator, fast and accurate, with a great signal.  I've worked him a few times before, but last night he was using the special "Queen's Anniversary" prefix.   (Digression: I like Brian May's playing a lot, but I can do without Freddy Mercury.)

It's been 20 years since I passed the 20wpm test and you'd think I would be slick and polished.  But I just don't have the motor skills I used to, and I can't send faster than 12wpm with my paddles, without LOTS of errors.   So when I heard ZQ2FK calling, I turned the keyer up to around 25-30wpm, where Ernie seemed to be working, and hit the button that sends my callsign, AC4RD.

I hear a reply: "AC4?"   So I hit the "AC4RD" memory button again.  Only I *don't*.  I hit the key NEXT to it, which sends "DE AC4RD."   That wouldn't be so bad, but I hit it hard enough to make it bounce, so what I actually sent was "DE AC4RD DE AC4RD."  :(    ZB2FK came back with a signal report at maybe 12wpm--I think he figured out he had a klutz on the other end!

Happily, this stuff is embarrassing, but it doesn't give me any anxiety.  I'm fully aware I'm a klutz, and I've learned to live with it.  ;)  


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0WV on May 17, 2012, 12:02:26 PM
port at maybe 12wpm--I think he figured out he had a klutz on the other end!

Happily, this stuff is embarrassing, but it doesn't give me any anxiety.  I'm fully aware I'm a klutz, and I've learned to live with it.  ;) 

The receiving of CW by head does not require any motor skills.

So when you are not able to transmit any faster then 12 wpm, the problem is that everybody comes back in that speed.
How do you handle that?

Even tried a cootie key (double speed key)?
Wim PAoWV


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: AC4RD on May 17, 2012, 12:48:19 PM
[So when you are not able to transmit any faster then 12 wpm, the problem is that everybody comes back in that speed.  How do you handle that?

Well, not being able to work my paddles reliably at speed isn't really a problem for me.  I don't care for "chatting" on the air; I like DXing and light-duty contesting. Very fast exchanges! The memory keys on the keyer can do about 95% of that.  

So I usually call someone pretty close to whatever speed he seems to be running, from 8-10wpm at the low end, on up to 25-35wpm.   I don't usually turn the keyer faster than 30-35, but I can recognize my own call and "5NN TU" pretty well even faster.  If I work someone MUCH faster than 30wpm (7O6T, or have you worked HC2SL? That guy is an *amazing* operator), I'm still slower than the other station, but usually we can make an exchange in a couple of seconds and then the DX is answering the next call, and I'm  writing the info in my log.  ;)  

Of course, I run into situations that require manual sending; last night I worked Kees, PA5WT, on 15meters.  Very nice operator!  We traded signal reports and I hit the "73 TU" key, and he came back with "NAME?"  I don't have that in a memory slot, so I just tapped the paddles to spell KEN and then TU--slower than the signal reports, but nobody is perfect.  :-)

I'm not a great CW operator and I'll never BE one--but I'm still having LOTS of fun!  :)  73!


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K8AXW on May 18, 2012, 08:08:17 AM
I think ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  Listen fast, send slow..... whatever.  Most GOOD CW ops understand this and will show flexibility.  I do get frustrated though with some hotshot CW ops that refuse to slow down because it will (might) lower their score.

I often wonder while listening briefly to CW contests, how many points do fast CW ops lose because the slower operators are reluctant to call these hotshots?


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: 2E0OZI on May 18, 2012, 09:12:44 AM
I went to a presentation on CW by M0BLO in March and he dealt with anxiety quite a bit - which helped me a lot. His tips were;

1. Use previous QSOs (assuming replying to a CQ) to get the information you need, such as name, QTH. This might be called cheating but also might be called "listening"  ;) Then you can concentrate on getting the other OPs call, RST and one other piece of info. Still copy the other stuff, but you know what to expect so you can relax a little.

2. Dont be afraid to keep it really simple even if the other guy want a long chat. At this stage I can handle a simple QSO but not a rag chew. Thats OK.

3. Get on the air - its a hobby nobody will have a cow if you make a mistake.

4. Be fully prepared at the op position - do not (like I did) be scrabbling around for scraps of paper looking for a pen that works!!

5. Get comfy.



Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: W1JKA on May 19, 2012, 07:34:01 AM
   Practice practice both on and off air,start with slow operators,don't worry about solid copy because if you miss a few characters you can usually figure out the word and gist of the message.After 40 years qrt and 3 years later Im back to 13 wpm solid copy and can usally figure out and have a decent qso at 15-18 wpm,I have no desire to be a high speed cw operator and am having great fun just poking along.Nearly all cw operators will gladly meet you current speed level,since most of us started at 0 characters and 0 wpm.Keep at it and it wiil come.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N8FZ on May 30, 2012, 05:55:42 AM
It has been my experience that learning code uses or should use the part of the brain that comprehends music. There is a great cassette tape out there IF you can find it called "The rhythm of the code". It teaches you how learning the code from a music standpoint makes it a lot easier.

The other thing is just make contacts. Nothing gets your speed up quicker than qso's.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N4IAG on May 30, 2012, 06:15:35 AM
It has been my experience that learning code uses or should use the part of the brain that comprehends music. There is a great cassette tape out there IF you can find it called "The rhythm of the code". It teaches you how learning the code from a music standpoint makes it a lot easier.

Here it is. I don't know how useful it is for learning the code...but it is catchy :)

http://youtu.be/QP0iX_hO7m4


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0WV on May 30, 2012, 08:09:54 AM


http://youtu.be/QP0iX_hO7m4

Forget about that. Never met a guy/gal that became proficient in the code by that way. And it is a lie to promote that making music has something to do with learning Morse code. (unless PERSEVERANCE, because that   is the same basic requirement for both)

Wim


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K8AXW on May 30, 2012, 10:37:41 AM
Wim:  True but still it's "catchy."   :D


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N2EY on May 30, 2012, 12:55:27 PM
And it is a lie to promote that making music has something to do with learning Morse code. (unless PERSEVERANCE, because that   is the same basic requirement for both)

I agree 100%!

I will expand on that "perseverance" theme:

What I see in common between musicians and Morse code ops are:

1) Understanding that they are learning a skill, which takes different techniques than learning a fact or a concept. And not just one skill but a whole set of skills.

2) Willingness to start at a very basic level ("Heart and Soul", "Chopsticks") and gradually move up to more complex things

3) Practice, practice, and more practice, plus an understanding that there is always more to learn and that one's skills can always get better.

4) Ability to keep going after a mistake.

5) Willingness to try different things.

6) Not wasting time looking for the "best" or "ideal" way to learn, but instead pitching in and doing it.

7) Having the value that anything worth doing is worth doing as well as you can.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: K5USF on July 12, 2012, 03:46:18 PM
Well, I too am learning morse code.  I am using the just learn morse code software.  I have experienced the same thing you have - miss a letter and then I get behind.  It isn't so much anxiety.  Guess I would call it a lapse in concentration or some other distraction comes into it.  I really have to clear my brain (can't think of anything else), then things work out ok.

I am taking this on as a long term process...But, the sooner I get to the end, the better.

My problem is that I am not a good typist, so I am not only learning morse code, but I am learning to type.  That is more frustrating than the code training.  But, I do type faster than I write.

I started Jun 26 and as of today I am have completed eight letters.  I train about 5 or 6 times a day with each session only about 5-10 minutes long.  I normally take a day off here or there - just to forget about it. I also spend some time sending (off air of course) the letters I have learned.

When I add a letter, it is like starting all over again!  But, at the end of the day it always works out.

Keep pushing and we will get there!


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 13, 2012, 01:19:59 AM
So,

56 messages in this thread.

K5DTE, the topic starter, was planning to do 20/15 one character a day. The thread was started May 14 and May 24 was the last posting of K5DTE . At that date he started another thread with an odd new proposal to learn CW,which generated 8 replies,.
but not a reaction of him.

So everything happens as expected.

Bob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on July 13, 2012, 02:01:49 AM
So everything happens as expected.

Perhaps folks realise that any request for help will gather a whole heap of contradictory responses, half of which will be actively unhelpful, and that it's better to stay silent...


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 13, 2012, 05:22:21 AM
May be Rick.

However Topic Starter can look in the history of this forum chapter, before questioning, AND when folks want something, they just buy it, when they don't have the money they increase their home loan, the loans are exported and finally the alien suckers that bought them because their interest rate was higher  pay their purchases.
When the alien guy did not, he still pays via higher tax rates necessary in order to "recapitalise" the banks by the governments.

Homebrewing, is except kitbuilding practically vanished. And kitbuilding is the starting level for a 12 year old. People are proud when they build a kit with predrilled silk screened printed circuits. Really ridiculous. I think the only reason for selling kits is that you don't have to pay for patent rights, because not you the designer,  but the kitbuilder did the final assembling which is patented.
May be another reason is, that the buyers think- when sufficient stupid-  they really designed and made something by themselves by transforming concepts to reality.

Nowadays there are still a lot of retired radioman (that are not able to build anything, because they start with a technician or novice license) When they are passed away over 10 to 15 years, CW will be dead.

Just as homebrewing did already die.

Those radiomen are the big guns in CW. It was their profession and they learned it with a mastering organisation.

However, how many CW REAL amateurs that learned the code on a former professional level or better, will be active in the future?

You will be one of them, I respect your persistent learning behavior.  

I am afraid the jumping on an announced starter in this forum chapter has the reason that the repliers, have the opinion they know something/ have a skill,  another doesn't have, that happens only as an extreme exception in their life, and for that reason they are very proud of it and they jump as flies on the BS offered.

So my opinion is: Topic Starter, just quit before you begin because you will not make it, you waste your time, and your self picture will be at least partially damaged when you have to stop due to lack of persistence.

The guys that make it to reach their goal,  are  the guys that just are stimulated by such a message.
So, I am really helping you Topic Starter, to reach your goal or to prevent wasting your time.

Bob


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: KG4NEL on July 13, 2012, 05:56:26 AM
Amazing how even the most optimistic of threads can be intruded upon by negativity.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: N0BLT on July 13, 2012, 05:20:30 PM
I am using the just learn morse code software.

...as of today I am have completed eight letters.

If you know 8 letters then try feeding these words into the Just Learn Morse Code program, and try no writing/typing. Try a little head copy.  It'll be pretty humbling!  I decided to approach this learning code thing, based now on head copy only.  No more paper & writing/typing.  The end result, will be much better.  I was at 20 wpm, paper copy, of 8 characters, same place as you, when I switched.  Now my brain gets stretched MUCH MORE, and my hand no longer scribbles, MINDLESS random jibberish!  Mix these up a little first, and put them in a file.  Select "file" as source in Just Learn Morse Code.

krauts markup tramps trumps kaput karts kraut marks marts murks parks parts ramps rumps smart spark spurt stamp stark strap strum stump supra tamps tarps tramp trams traps trump turks amps amus arks arms arts kart kats maps mark mars mart mask mast mats murk musk must muts pams park part past pats puma purs puts ramp rams raps rapt rasp rats rump rums rusk rust ruts skat smut spam spar spat spur star sump tamp tams taps tarp tars task taus tram trap turk tusk umps amp apt ark arm art ask asp map mar mat mut pam par pat pur pus put ram rap rat rum rut sap sat sum tam tap tar tsk ump ups am ar as at up us


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on July 13, 2012, 06:28:22 PM
N0BLT,

What you're doing may be a very good idea, but consider using [/Source/Text lines] after putting each word/phrase on a separate line - that way you won't be able to predict what comes next.

Also, consider voice recognition.  That would allow you to monitor your progress without typing/writing - just speak each word as you recognise it.

73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: M0LEP on July 14, 2012, 03:27:36 AM
MINDLESS random jibberish

Yeah, I figure the use of random characters is one of the bigger obstacles placed in the way of folks trying lo learn. It's fine for the military, where transmissions are likely to be encrypted, but isn't particularly helpful for amateurs. I wonder how much easier it would be if words (including the usual abbreviations like ES, DE, GM, TU, etc.) and callsigns (including things like '/P' and so on) were used as soon as they could be. The character introduction order might need changing a bit for it to work well.

I also (on a different tack) wonder whether the add one character, then add another, then add another progression is actually the best way, too. It seems to me it builds a wall, and each new character gets harder to learn. Some programs help a bit by weighting the new characters so they appear more often, but even so the new ones may only appear a handful of times in any given exercise. I suspect it might be much more effective to work through the characters in small sets until they're all covered, then combine the small sets into larger ones, and repeat that until eventually there's just one set.

Of one think I am certain; the Koch method is not the be-all-and-end-all method for learning Morse, at least as far as amateur radio is concerned. It may work for some, and it has some good aspects, but it's only part of the answer, and only for some folk.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: AC2Q on July 14, 2012, 08:33:02 AM
The best thing to do is just get on the air and call CQ.

Check out the QRS-CW · QRS Slow Speed CW Group on Yahoo, severalof them "sit" on certain frequencies and are very helpful.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: AB9NZ on July 14, 2012, 11:23:35 AM
AC2Q said- "The best thing to do is just get on the air and call CQ.

Check out the QRS-CW · QRS Slow Speed CW Group on Yahoo, several of them "sit" on certain frequencies and are very helpful."
 
    Good advice, but the fella needs to learn Morse code before he can do that. My understanding of the Koch method is that you learn at 20 wpm, so really no need for code buddy's or qrs groups with Koch.


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: LB3KB on July 14, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
Koch's method dictates that you should learn at your desired operating speed.  While many people may want to operate at 20 WPM, there are plenty of other valid goals.

A goal of anything less than 12 WPM may be counter-productive in the long run, though.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Anxiety
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 15, 2012, 03:39:46 AM
The best thing to do is just get on the air and call CQ.

Check out the QRS-CW · QRS Slow Speed CW Group on Yahoo, severalof them "sit" on certain frequencies and are very helpful.

O yes, just like traveling to China, and you only learned to say phonetically :
有美丽的一天
我能说中文,所以右侧谈中国对我来说

Bob