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eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: IZ2UUF on June 30, 2012, 02:46:11 PM



Title: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on June 30, 2012, 02:46:11 PM
Hello dear friends.

I have developed an Android application that implements the Koch training method, a very effective way to learn fast CW.
For anyone interested in learning more about "Koch" method, this web page (http://"http://www.qsl.net/n1irz/finley.morse.html") by N1IRZ explains what this is about.
My application is called IZ2UUF Morse Koch CW (http://"http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.iz2uuf.cwkoch"): it is free, ad-free and it can be downloaded from Google Play (Android Market).

Please, let me know if you encounter any problem and/or if you have any enhancement to propose.

Bye,
Davide - IZ2UUF


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: K0JEG on July 04, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
Nice job. I like that it continues the lesson in the background. That way if I'm out and about I can use the Memo app for typing letters when practicing.

Also was able to use Wolphi's Morse decoder app to decode the lessons, just for fun.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: KW6CSS on July 05, 2012, 08:04:39 AM
Thanks for writing this...  I downloaded it last week, and have been enjoying it.  I've been using the G4FON tutor on my hiome computer, and have been having good results.  With your program I can practice anywhere, and that's quite handy...

One thing though.  It would be nice if there were a slight pause in the program after you press the "play" button, before the code started.  It's a little tricky for me to press the button and then reset my hand with my pen to copy the code.  I've been able to set up my pen and pad with my right hand and press the button with my left, but it's still kind of tricky.  The G4FON trainer seems to have a small pause at the beginning of the sequence so it's not an issue.

I know it;s a nitpick, but by far my biggest problem with learning Koch is the speed with which I can physically write, and not my speed of decoding... Especially those "big" letters like "M" and "W."  Not sure how I can get better at that other than more practice!

Thanks again for the great app! :)
Mike


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 05, 2012, 10:41:27 AM
Thanks for writing this...  I downloaded it last week, and have been enjoying it.  I've been using the G4FON tutor on my hiome computer, and have been having good results.  With your program I can practice anywhere, and that's quite handy...

One thing though.  It would be nice if there were a slight pause in the program after you press the "play" button, before the code started.  It's a little tricky for me to press the button and then reset my hand with my pen to copy the code.  I've been able to set up my pen and pad with my right hand and press the button with my left, but it's still kind of tricky.  The G4FON trainer seems to have a small pause at the beginning of the sequence so it's not an issue.

I know it;s a nitpick, but by far my biggest problem with learning Koch is the speed with which I can physically write, and not my speed of decoding... Especially those "big" letters like "M" and "W."  Not sure how I can get better at that other than more practice!

Hi Mike.

Version 1.0.005 (yet to be released) has a programmable pause before start playing because I also have your problem (and, I believe, anyone).

I also have an hard time to keep up with fast CW, since I can't write fast enough. This is why I added a programmable space between words (feature that G4FON's software doesn't have): in this way, you can listen to a fast sequence but you have a little time to "buffer" it and write it down.
It is actually what happens in real QSO: you just need to write down the callsign of your counterparty; you don't have to write down your own callsign and all the other "glue" text received.
In version 1.0.005 I added a "slashed zero", so it easier to distinguish it from uppercase "O" plus other minor features.

Furthermore, some releases of Android have a bug and do not provide with valid default values for settings, despite of what claimed by Android specs. Therefore, at first installation, on some devices character and word spacing is set to "0" even if it is not one of the valid values; it easy to work it around, since you just need to select the desired values from the list, but it is annoying. This problem is also addressed in 1.0.005.

Thank you for using Koch trainer!

Bye,
Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 05, 2012, 10:44:13 AM
Also was able to use Wolphi's Morse decoder app to decode the lessons, just for fun.

Wow! I have to be sure that what is played back is accurate, because there are people double checking! :-)
Just kiddin' of course!

Bye,
Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: K6DAK on July 09, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
It's a great app, but how do you turn it off? The sound just keeps going.
I had to uninstall to get the sound to stop.

73  Dave


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 11, 2012, 11:28:31 AM
It's a great app, but how do you turn it off? The sound just keeps going.
I had to uninstall to get the sound to stop.

Hello Dave.

The application had a bug that appeared when rotating the device: the screen went blank and CW kept playing in background with no mean to stop it.
I don't know if this is your case, but this bug has been resolved with version 1.0.007 that has been released today.
I would be very grateful to you if you could try version 1.0.007 on your device and confirm me this issue is solved.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.
Bye
Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: N5RWJ on July 11, 2012, 04:37:48 PM
does it work on the I-PAD ?


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: K6DAK on July 11, 2012, 09:30:50 PM
Davide, the update to 1.0.007 works perfectly.
The program stops when the red square button is pressed.

Thank you for a great app.

73 Dave  K6DAK


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 11, 2012, 11:48:38 PM
does it work on the I-PAD ?

No, sorry, it doesn't: it's an Android app and it works only on Android devices.

Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 11, 2012, 11:51:42 PM
Davide, the update to 1.0.007 works perfectly.
The program stops when the red square button is pressed.

Dave, thanks again for checking!

Davide



Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: KW6CSS on July 14, 2012, 07:47:49 PM
Just downloaded the new version.  Thanks for the start pause! 

Still a great program...

Thanks again for writing it :)
Mike


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: KJ4DQQ on July 17, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
An excellent learning tool. It works great on my HTC Rezound. Now I don't have an excuse for not practicing. ;D

Glenn


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 17, 2012, 03:14:08 PM
Thank you all for your support!

I just released version 1.0.009 with a new experimental feature: now it is possible to set a fixed word length.
In this way, instead of training with an enlarged space between letters (Farnsworth method), we can try with groups of two, three or more letters played at full speed with the right spacing. Then, by enlarging the inter-word spacing, users still have a little time to think on the letters just heard.

Let me know your feedbacks.

73 de IZ2UUF - Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: TPELLE on July 22, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
I've looked on Google Play and am unable to find it. Can you provide a link? What's the actual name of the application?


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 22, 2012, 02:27:01 PM
I've looked on Google Play and am unable to find it. Can you provide a link? What's the actual name of the application?

Hello TPELLE.

The exact name of the application is "IZ2UUF Morse Koch CW".
The link in Google Play is http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.iz2uuf.cwkoch (http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.iz2uuf.cwkoch)

It might be that your device has an Android version too old (min. required is 2.2) and Google Play doesn't show the app to you because not compatible with your device. Let me know if this is the case and report me your Android version: I will try to see whether this app can be adapted to older APIs or not.

Bye
Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: TPELLE on July 22, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
Thank you. I have it now. I have no idea why I couldn't find it, as the search did reveal other Morse training apps. I guess my Google-Functional is weak!


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: TPELLE on July 24, 2012, 06:04:39 AM
Just an update, I have the app installed on my Toshiba Thrive 8mb Android tablet.  It's working great!  Pretty much the Android functional equivalent of the "Just Learn Morse Code" program I've been using on my Windows machine.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 24, 2012, 07:13:09 AM
Just an update, I have the app installed on my Toshiba Thrive 8mb Android tablet.  It's working great!  Pretty much the Android functional equivalent of the "Just Learn Morse Code" program I've been using on my Windows machine.

Hello TPELLE.

I'm glad it is working well. It might seem weird, but I've never heard of "Just Learn Morse Code" until now. The initial idea was to have a portable version of G4FON's program and the extra features came from from users input or my own self-feedback while using it.

Have a nice learning of CW!

73 de IZ2UUF


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 24, 2012, 07:49:55 AM
Hello dear friends.

I have developed an Android application that implements the Koch training method, a very effective way to learn fast CW.
This is a statement, I desire to question.
How do you know that? Just as LEP is saying: you never know because you start not out with a blank memory.

Of course it is fine that you make an application, free for the Morse fraternity, and the wanabees, BUT realise that when you place a donkey between 2 heaps of hay, he is starving because he doesn't know and keeps hesitating which heap to select.




Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 24, 2012, 08:17:25 AM
Hello dear friends.

I have developed an Android application that implements the Koch training method, a very effective way to learn fast CW.
This is a statement, I desire to question.
How do you know that? Just as LEP is saying: you never know because you start not out with a blank memory.

Of course it is fine that you make an application, free for the Morse fraternity, and the wanabees, BUT realise that when you place a donkey between 2 heaps of hay, he is starving because he doesn't know and keeps hesitating which heap to select.

Hello PA0BLAH.

Take it this way: I started learning morse code using this Koch method and I can verify myself that, as exercising is going on, I am more and more able to copy CW at the speed I'm training. I also expect this method to work because it is based on general principles that seem obvious to me and worked for me in other different cases. Honestly, this is as far as I can go: my statistics are worth nothing, since they are based on one single case.
You can believe it works or not: I'm not in the position of argumenting its effectiveness more than I did in my previous lines.
The goal of this topic wasn't convincing anyone that the Koch method is valid, but just share the app I wrote for my own use with anyone that already decided to go for this method.
Anyway, the Android app is free and ad-free so I expect this to be worth my good faith.

73 de IZ2UUF


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 24, 2012, 08:19:10 AM
Just an update, I have the app installed on my Toshiba Thrive 8mb Android tablet.  It's working great!  Pretty much the Android functional equivalent of the "Just Learn Morse Code" program I've been using on my Windows machine.

OK Tom,

I have the feeling that the installation of a program on some overpaid tablet computer is not the problem, but YOU are the problem learning CW. YOU are retired, YOU have a life behind you, and YOU are planning to learn CW in 3 month, not the 4 years (in fact infinity because I expect that you will quit) I estimated.
For 40 characters, that means at the average nearly 4 characters each week, faster at start (the donkey has less to select from) slower at the end (the donkey has 41 heaps to select from).

So keep us informed about your progress.

Remember it is delightfully nice to communicate in some obsolete code, instead of just writing here and expressing your thoughts in a way you are used to do already, readable all over the world, even by me, in Europe. No QRM, no QRN, forum always open, no license required, and no BCI and TVI or quarrels with neighbors about ugly antenna constructions.

That (using obsolete code over the air is delightful)  is the opinion of the retired navy and military professionals, their job was transmitting and receiving coded code. nothing else, because that was the limit they could reach in their life, honored with a bunch of color coded resistor on their take home uniform.

They look eagerly for CW-newbees in order to demonstrate their only skill they acquired in their life.

So Tom, think about what you are planning to do.
It is always wise not to listen only to the advertising guys, but to balance your thoughts.

I am sure I am helping you with this message,  to perform that act.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 24, 2012, 09:11:02 AM


Hello PA0BLAH.

Take it this way: I started learning morse code using this Koch method and I can verify myself that, as exercising is going on,
73 de IZ2UUF

OK, Let's make a fact that I appreciate your effort without doubt.

But I wanted to emphasise that you only can learn Morse code, as a leisure time spending, when you REALLY WANT IT,
There are a lot of people that learn it easy. But the number of easy learning guys and gals is diminishing very fast with aging.

The guys that really want to learn it, just do it, they don't need any help. The guys that are presenting themself "Hi, here I am I want to learn Morse code" is the majority BS-group, just collecting some welcomes and advices and you never see them again, when you don't listen on the SSB section of the bands.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: N2EY on July 24, 2012, 03:16:31 PM
To PA0BLAH:

Why are you so negative about newcomers learning Morse Code?

Why the discouragement and the very long estimates of how much time it will take to learn?

Why not try to help?

One would think you don't want newcomers to even try.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 24, 2012, 04:28:37 PM
To PA0BLAH:

Why are you so negative about newcomers learning Morse Code?

I said:
The guys that really want to learn it, just do it, they don't need any help. The guys that are presenting themself "Hi, here I am I want to learn Morse code" is the majority BS-group, just collecting some welcomes and advices and you never see them again, when you don't listen on the SSB section of the bands.

Few guys have the will power just as M0LEP  to perform this task, and nobody can be lucky when you try to believe them that they can perform it in 3 month, and find some example to "proof" it.



Quote

Why the discouragement and the very long estimates of how much time it will take to learn?

Why not try to help?

It is keeping your feet on earth, in order to prevent wasting time and disappointment due to failure.
When you think my estimates are out of the ball park try to get info from DJ1YFK, he has the statistics.


Quote
One would think you don't want newcomers to even try.

Everybody can try it, without wasting their and our time by announcing their plans, collecting 50 Hurrahs and  congrats and never seeing them back.

The guys that REALLY WANT TO LEARN THE CODE do it and are motivated by my talking. The bullshitters, roughly 95%, are probably saving time that should otherwise be wasted , so I do a pretty good job , I set them thinking in order to find out what they really want.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on July 24, 2012, 05:48:04 PM
  I think PA0BLAH is just trying to be realistic. Look at the various threads in this forum for a large Koch method training website  http://lcwo.net/forum/showall   . The amount of hardship and abject failure is staggering. In a CQ magazine editorial the president of FISTS, Nancy Kott tells about handing out thousands of cd's with a code program on them, then laments that she isn't hearing any new ops on the air. Here on E-Ham the reviews of Koch programs aren't full of people grateful for having learned the code with them, the glowing reports are from people who previously had passed a code test and then built speed with the method. Computer programs work great for speed building, but may just not be the best way to actually learn the characters. CW ops like myself that were never code tested are very rare. I sure would like to work some new guys. Very best of 73, de Tom AB9NZ http://radiotelegrapher.posterous.com/


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on July 24, 2012, 06:14:02 PM
While it is probably reasonable to assume that I don't hear much from people who give up learning Morse code, I have certainly heard from a lot of people that have succeeded.  They come from all walks of life, and their age varies from "He's in kindergarten" to "I was in World war II".

I'm sure a lot of people give up for any number of reasons, but I don't see how it is one bit useful to be as negative about it as PA0BLAH.

The same goes for the alleged negativity of the president of FISTS - what do you expect if you just hand out CDs to unmotivated individuals ?  My software has been distributed on more than 100,000 CDs.  That doesn't mean that 100,000 people will use it - but some will.  What's the problem with that ?


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on July 24, 2012, 08:06:45 PM
  Sigurd, no disrespect was meant to you, Davide, Fabian, or Ray. I am grateful for, appreciate, use and enjoy these programs to great effect for speed building. I'm certainly not smart enough to write a program like one of these. However; I can count on two hands the new (not old timers returning) non-codetested hams I've worked on cw in the last five years.  I don't think it's unfair to recommend alternative methods of teaching Morse to those who seek the craft.
  I don't think PA0BLAH's "The Emperor Has No Clothes" sense of humor is scaring away any new ops. Actually it's kinda refreshing compared to everyone gushing over a guy that just learned the letters "K'" and "M".  Heck, it may even prod a few to get off their butts.
           Take very good care folks, de Tom AB9NZ http://radiotelegrapher.posterous.com/

 


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on July 24, 2012, 09:04:52 PM
Tom,

I didn't perceive you, or anybody else, as disrespectful.  I do wonder how the negativity of some people is supposed to be helpful to anybody, though.

I am a firm believer in Koch's method, and I see how Farnsworth timing is useful to a lot of people as a learning aid.  However, there is nothing in my software that forces people to use those methods - the software can be set up for many different learning methods.  While I don't know the details of the other programs out there, I'm sure most of them can be adapted in similar ways.

What I have seen myself in recent years is that in spite of the code requirement being dropped in many countries, the bands have been boiling with CW activity even at the very long and flat bottom of the sun cycle.  How would anybody even start an attempt to figure out who is new and who is an oldtimer ?  Most people who succeed in learning Morse code are happily using their skills and don't have the need to brag about it online.

And while I've been listening to a lot of negativity about the sun cycle preventing anything from happening, I've been working a lot of great DX myself - even from the QRM/QRN hellhole I used to live in.  You can go straight from a meeting in your local HAM club, where you have listened to one after the other complaining about the lack of this and the lack of that, to your own shack and just turn that darned dial an work some great DX.

Whatever you look for, you will find.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on July 24, 2012, 09:44:05 PM
Quote
How would anybody even start an attempt to figure out who is new and who is an oldtimer ?
Here in the states you can get a pretty good idea from the call sequence or just talking to the op.
Quote
the software can be set up for many different learning methods
You bet! Just Learn Morse is very adaptable, but the alternative method I was thinking of is Code Quick. At the Wikipedia for Morse Code it says "In the United Kingdom many people learned the Morse code by means of a series of words or phrases that have the same rhythm as a Morse character. For instance, "Q" in Morse is dah - dah - di - dah, which can be memorized by the phrase "God save the Queen", and the Morse for "F" is di - di - dah - dit, which can be memorized as "Did she like it." Code Quick really worked well for me but is often knocked by people not acquainted with the method.
Quote
Whatever you look for, you will find.
Other than during the very worst of the solar storms I can always find a cw qso and that's a wonderful thing :).
     73 de Tom AB9NZ


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on July 25, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
I think PA0BLAH is just trying to be realistic. Look at the various threads in this forum for a large Koch method training website  http://lcwo.net/forum/showall   . The amount of hardship and abject failure is staggering.

Hello Tom.

Learning CW, especially when you are not young anymore, is indeed an hard task. It is one of those goals that require a full and continuous commitment, like playing piano or loosing 50 pounds! :-)
Many people don't have the powerwill needed to withstand all the setbacks and apparent no-progress that this kind of exercises give.
If you keep on exercising, your reflexes will build undoubtedly and you'll start copying CW. The question is: will you keep on exercising enough?
The hard part of a learning method is to keep the trainees involved.

Fundamentally, I don't disagree with PA0BLAH, but I see it in another way: before starting an activity like this, I would reccoment people to self-evaluate their powerwill and decide whether it is a task they can sustain long enough or not. Because with these methods, if you stop at 60%, it doesn't mean that you can handle 6 QSO out of 10. If you stop at 60%, you wasted your time.
I see many people undergoing commitments that I know for sure that there is no way they'll sustain the effort till the end. How many cyclettes, guitars or other "definitive" tools are sold to people that, after a few tries, live them dusting in their living room?

I'm pretty sure the Koch method works, but at the same time I do expect a great number of failures due to the reasons above.

Bye, Davide


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on July 25, 2012, 03:09:57 AM


Learning CW, especially when you are not young anymore, is indeed an hard task. It is one of those goals that require a full and continuous commitment, like playing piano or loosing 50 pounds! :-)
Many people don't have the powerwill needed to withstand all the setbacks and apparent no-progress that this kind of exercises give.
If you keep on exercising, your reflexes will build undoubtedly and you'll start copying CW. The question is: will you keep on exercising enough?
The hard part of a learning method is to keep the trainees involved.



Wise words.
When somebody says you can learn it in thee months, I know that that is possible. But don't make people believe that is a realistic estimate.

G3TMV is exercising daily, not once a day but often on www.lcwo.net , since May 2010, longer than 2 years already,  about half way (26 characters) now,
so another 2 years to go. He will make it when staying alive, I am sure, just as some other younger guys. PA1FOX did it, and is now active with his cootie key. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29DcBW1XolY Guys with will power. They earn really the congrats they deserve by finishing what they planned to do.



Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on July 25, 2012, 09:41:51 AM
Quote
Learning CW, especially when you are not young anymore, is indeed an hard task.
  Let me share my experience. I was 46 when I downloaded the Koch software. After the first two letters I became very frustrated and was making almost no progress. I met a guy named Barney from Maine while talking on Echolink. He suggested Code Quick. During a six month period in my life when I gutted my house out to the studs, both my parents and my father in law died, and I had my two little kids running around, I used the Code Quick program. Learning each new character was fun and rewarding. After six months I was copying W1AW at 13 wpm, and had my first qso, a half hour rag chew at 10 words per minute. I need to mention that I have ZERO talent for music and I'm not much of a math guy so the credit really needs to go to the method, not me. In my experience the sound-a-likes don't cripple your copy speed, actually they become truncated to allow phonic copy as outlined by Paul, N6EV in his important piece of work "Head Copy, An Alternate Method: Phonic Copy" http://www.skccgroup.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=898 . This is the way I head copy at 30wpm. To be honest I don't understand the concept of hearing whole words when the code is streaming to you, with phonic copy the Morse almost becomes like speech. I think this would be a good topic for another thread
  For people that don't find success with Koch I would love to see a free mnemonic program developed that eliminates some of the flaws in Code Quick, but really the flaws aren't that bad, and it isn't all that expensive, in fact it's the best money I've ever spent.
   Very best of 73 de Tom, AB9NZ


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: N3PDT on July 25, 2012, 02:30:15 PM
I learned at age 52. Took a couple attempts, and finally packing my mic away before I got rolling. Took about 6 months. If I had just tossed the mic when I first started, it would have been closer to 2 or 3 months.

Everyone has slightly different learning styles, so I won't say what worked for me is what's best for you. Already lots of advice for that in this thread already. I used a combo of G4FON, on air listening practice, and a lot of sending practice to a code reader. That got me to where I was brave enough to find where the slow guys go (7.114-ish) and start making contacts. My progress increased rapidly with real life QSOs.

That was a little over two years ago and I've hit a couple plateaus along the way. I still struggle with 20wpm and up, but am pushing myself to get faster. I've found a LOT of fun to be had at 10-15wpm.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on July 25, 2012, 05:10:38 PM
   
Quote
I've found a LOT of fun to be had at 10-15wpm.
   Great to see a new guy.You bet Doug, CW is really a blast. 
    Guys, consider that Davide not only authored this new android program for the ham community, but also that his posts here are written in a second (or perhaps even third) language, and then look at Davide in the mountains -  http://xml.qrz.com/db/IZ2UUF . This fella is really accomplished.
   73 deTom AB9NZ


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: K7KBN on July 25, 2012, 05:54:26 PM
As far as using USA call signs to determine how long individuals have been licensed, that's long past.  With "vanity calls" being the way to go, any new ham can hide behind what looks like an old timer's call and ask how to build a dipole.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: TPELLE on August 04, 2012, 06:42:02 AM
Davide, I thought you might like to hear a report of my experience so far with your app, and hope that you might give some advice or offer some suggestions.

First, the app is working perfectly on my Toshiba Thrive tablet, running Android Honeycomb 3.2.1. No issues whatsoever. By way of comparison I also have a similar Windows program installed on my desktop PC at home, as well as on my company-issued notebook PC, but your app on my tablet is the one I choose to use, as the platform is so portable and requires no "hookup" of any sort to use. I took it with me on my last trip (I am a control system engineer/programmer for industrial equipment) and after working 10 or so hours in a hot non-air conditioned building it was nice to go back to my room, stretch out on the bed, fire up your app, and put in 30 minutes of study without having to unbag my notebook PC, hook up the charger, etc.

After two or so weeks of fairly consistent use I am up to Koch Level 5. I am running it at 20 wpm with all other settings "normal" with regards to spacing etc. I've tried learning Morse several times in the past unsuccessfully, but it was always at 5 wpm or so, but running the code faster gives more of a sense of the whole sound of the letter and not the individual dots and dashes.

I am trying hard to not start counting dots and dashes, but instead to hear the entire sound of the word. It seems to be working, as the other evening I tuned in to some live cw activity on the 40 meter band, and though I could not copy anything in its entirety I could pick out individual characters and pick out the "rhythm" of people calling 'CQ'. The letters would just "pop" into my consciousness.

Now here's where I could use some advice :

At 20 wpm I am unable to write down the letters that I hear. But, when I run the app and see each letter appear on the screen my mind starts 'filling in' the Morse Code for that letter. If I refrain from looking at the screen and just listen, my mind 'verbalizes' the letter, but not completely as I 'interrupt' myself to start listening to the next letter. Is this the correct way to use the program in terms of the learning process, or should I be doing it differently? (I recognize that it is difficult to explain, and probably even more difficult to get the concepts across to me, as I have no experience using any other brain than my own, nor do you.)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: TPELLE on August 04, 2012, 09:42:24 AM
One other question: Is it a bad idea to listen to code practice files at this point? I downloaded some of the ARRL 20 wpm code practice sessions from the web and installed them on my iPad and was going to play them through the aux port on my truck radio while I drive back and forth to work.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: N4IAG on August 04, 2012, 10:56:01 AM
Tpelle, I just wanted to mention, once you learn the code, there's an iPad app called CWText. It's great for 'on the go' word practice. Well worth the 99¢ imo.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: KK4CPH on August 04, 2012, 02:48:27 PM
After two or so weeks of fairly consistent use I am up to Koch Level 5. I am running it at 20 wpm with all other settings "normal" with regards to spacing etc. I've tried learning Morse several times in the past unsuccessfully, but it was always at 5 wpm or so, but running the code faster gives more of a sense of the whole sound of the letter and not the individual dots and dashes.

I am trying hard to not start counting dots and dashes, but instead to hear the entire sound of the word. It seems to be working, as the other evening I tuned in to some live cw activity on the 40 meter band, and though I could not copy anything in its entirety I could pick out individual characters and pick out the "rhythm" of people calling 'CQ'. The letters would just "pop" into my consciousness.

Same here but I'm starting at 15wpm.  It does sound "natural" in a way.  At 5wpm I was counting dits and dahs and getting nowhere so I gave up.  When he came out with this app, the slowest setting was 20wpm.  I tried it but wasn't having much luck after level 4.  It probably doesn't make much sense that another 5wpm slower would make a difference but I guess we all learn differently.   ;)  Right now I'm at level 6.  And I think you're right about the rhythm of the code.  Some letters/characters just stand out, like CQ, ?, /, <BT>. 

This is a great app!!  I've been running it on my droid thru the radio.  Just turn up the volume so loud I can here the code and no background noise.   8)

Eric


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: IZ2UUF on August 04, 2012, 03:49:27 PM
At 20 wpm I am unable to write down the letters that I hear. But, when I run the app and see each letter appear on the screen my mind starts 'filling in' the Morse Code for that letter. If I refrain from looking at the screen and just listen, my mind 'verbalizes' the letter, but not completely as I 'interrupt' myself to start listening to the next letter. Is this the correct way to use the program in terms of the learning process, or should I be doing it differently? (I recognize that it is difficult to explain, and probably even more difficult to get the concepts across to me, as I have no experience using any other brain than my own, nor do you.)

Hello TPELLE.

I really have no idea on how effective can be to listen to morse while reading it on the screen or while "figurating" letters in your mind.
Besides its effectivity, I personally don't like that approach because:
- cheating is too easy
- there is no written feedback proving the actual effectiveness: verba volant, scripta manent.

So we must find a way to satisfy our set of mostly conflicting requirements, which are:
1) playback speed must high;
2) we must have some time to think of the character we just heard without having the others overrun us;
3) we need a way to be able to write down what we heard even at high speed.

The most effective solution to problem #2 is to find a way to eliminate the need of thinking.
I believe this could be obtained by following a few rules.
Rule #1: never ever count dots and dashes. This slows or even kills the learning process.
Rule #2: do not move to the next letter until recognition of the current set is fully automatic.
Start with two letters and go on until your hand writes down those two letters by itself. Then add the next letter, let't say "R"; you'll see that as soon as this letter appears in the sequence, your brain will jam: however, you know that everytime you get a "jam", it must be an "R".
After enough runs, your brain will have related "dih dah dih" to "R" without you even knowing that it is "dih dah dih".
Instead, if you move to the next letter too early, there will be more than one letter able to jam your automatic recognition: at every jam, the rational part of your brain would have to kick in to count dashes and dots.

Regarding problem #3 (difficoulty to write fast enough), you can gain time by enlarging the delay between letters and/or between words.
I found very effective working with short sequences at high speed followed by a long inter-word space, that can be used to write down the sequence. For this purpose, the Android app has also the ability to produce random "words" of given fixed length (for example, two or three letters).

73 de Davide
IZ2UUF


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on August 30, 2012, 07:42:11 AM
Davide, the link in your original post in this thread is dead. Just so people know, the download can still be got to from your web page. I believe your the first creator of a Koch program to actually learn Morse code with it, so I'm very curious how your progress with instant recognition is going. I hope to work you on the air soon. Very best of 73 de Tom, ab9nz


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: M0LEP on August 30, 2012, 02:52:30 PM
Start with two letters and go on until your hand writes down those two letters by itself. Then add the next letter, let't say "R"; you'll see that as soon as this letter appears in the sequence, your brain will jam: however, you know that everytime you get a "jam", it must be an "R".
After enough runs, your brain will have related "dih dah dih" to "R" without you even knowing that it is "dih dah dih".

Nice theory, which works reasonably well while the number of different characters is small, but the effectiveness drops off as the number of characters increases.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on August 30, 2012, 04:18:24 PM
In a press release for his book "Morse Code: Breaking the Barrier" N1IRZ says
Quote
In 1936, Ludwig Koch, a German psychologist, published the results of extensive research on Morse Code proficiency and showed how he trained students to copy at 12 words per minute in as little as 13.5 hours. That is by far the fastest Morse training program ever published.
the press release gets regurgitated all the time in many forms, but oddly the actual research is nowhere to be found on the web.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: KK4CPH on September 01, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Davide, the link in your original post in this thread is dead. Just so people know, the download can still be got to from your web page. I believe your the first creator of a Koch program to actually learn Morse code with it, so I'm very curious how your progress with instant recognition is going. I hope to work you on the air soon. Very best of 73 de Tom, ab9nz

Try this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.iz2uuf.cwkoch&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsIm5ldC5pejJ1dWYuY3drb2NoIl0.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 02, 2012, 05:10:56 AM
In a press release for his book "Morse Code: Breaking the Barrier" N1IRZ says
Quote
In 1936, Ludwig Koch, a German psychologist, published the results of extensive research on Morse Code proficiency and showed how he trained students to copy at 12 words per minute in as little as 13.5 hours. That is by far the fastest Morse training program ever published.
the press release gets regurgitated all the time in many forms, but oddly the actual research is nowhere to be found on the web.

May be it was of strategical value in that pre-war time to keep it out of further publicity, or something else: Theologists,  lawyers, psychologist and military "officers" are not really viewed as scientific people.

I have never heard people learning in 13 exercising hours Morse code speed 12, and just as MZ0LEP emphasizes: more characters under your belt make it more difficult to add an extra one. It should have been a selected test group, selected in advance, what are the selection criteria?  May be all Bull Manure.

Recently psychology full professors were abdicated (fired), due to published research which was proved to be (and admitted to be) pure fantasy.  

Reasons / motivation: honour and fund raising.  

Remember the in Physics well known guys  with their cold fusion, palladium, heavy water, electrolyse. Possibly they thought: "It may be possible, when I publish it whole the world is going to try it out, and when successful, it is on our honour not them, the repeaters, and when not: How pity we did not exactly know how we did it but we did it."

That is the world.
And keep learning: When you are honest in behavior, you lose respect of suckers.

73 Bob


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 02, 2012, 05:53:30 AM
It was published.  The main reasons you can't find it on the web is that it was published in German and a long time ago.

73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 02, 2012, 07:43:56 PM
  It would be interesting to learn who Ludwig Koch was, and how he implemented his method to achieve the amazing results he claimed back in the 30's. If he didn't need computers to teach 12 wpm in 13.5 hours, why wasn't his system adopted for 60 years? Is his technique being followed accurately today? Did he survive the war? Which side was he on? Was he an amateur? Any relics or photographs? Family? Surviving students or contemporaries?
  His original source work would sure be interesting to look at.
Very best of 73 de Tom, ab9nz, Mount Prospect,  Illinois


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 03, 2012, 04:52:05 AM

Very best of 73 de Tom, ab9nz, Mount Prospect,  Illinois

You, you are a wise man Tom, in my opinion.

Don't be proud on this statement because the writer of this message  is a pig , a hound, a viper, stupid, tells only dogshit and what have you else in the vocabulary of the stayvertical alikes, that try to put you in a position they can oversee at the point of their basic level on the ladder they should be happy to climb for free without any effort and talents.

The Koch story may be even a hoax in order to get "Feind hört mit" to put in the wrong trail. Even in the German Wikipedia there is no reference found by this (=me) stupid pig-a-like hound.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LX2GT on September 03, 2012, 05:07:36 AM
Hello,

Googling around for a few minutes, I found the following: http://books.google.lu/books/about/Arbeitspsychologische_Untersuchung_der_T.html?id=yN8ktwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

The title reads 'Arbeitspsychologische Untersuchung der Tätigkeit bei der Aufnahme von Morsezeichen: Zugleich ein neues Anlernverfahren für Funker'

I would translate that as: Occupational psychological examination of the process of reading Morse Code: At the same time a new way of learning that process for radio operators.

Now, if one would be able to peek inside his work...


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 03, 2012, 05:54:14 AM
DF2OK published:

Titel:
'Arbeitspsychologische Untersuchung der Tätigkeit bei der Aufnahme von Morsezeichen, zugleich ein neues Anlernverfahren für Funker.' Umfang: 70 Seiten.

Das vollständige Druckwerk ist als PDF-Datei auf der im Juni 2003 erschienenen CD der AGCW e.V. zu finden.

Leider wurde diese Methode über Jahre ignoriert. Die Koch-Methode verhindert Frustration und vermittelt durch schnellen Lernerfolg Spaß an CW. Koch hat intensive Forschungen über Morseausbildung in den verschiedensten Varianten durchgeführt und hat seine Methode immer weiter verfeinert. Nur wenn der spürbare Erfolg da ist, wird die Motivation bleiben. CW-Lernen ist eine "Strecke", die man durchhalten muss. Aber man kann sie sich angenehm gestalten.

Ludwig Koch hat in den 30igern einer von ihm ausgesuchten Gruppe von Schülern alle Zeichen mit Tempo 60 in nur 12.5 Stunden (!) dauerhaft beigebracht. Später dann hat er erfolgreich Militärfunker ausgebildet.

Infos zu Koch-Methode gibt es nach meinem derzeitigen Kenntnisstand (leider!) nur in englischer Sprache. Diese Infos sind aus dem Internet sowie dem MFJ-Buch: "Morse Code: Breaking the Barrier" Es ist von MFJ unter der Nummer MFJ-3400 u.a. bei ZiCo zu bekommen. Der Autor ist Dave Finley, N1IRZ, der einer der erfolgreichen Anwender der Koch-Methode war. Mehr darüber in den Links weiter unten.
 ---
Throw it in Bable fish, perhaps you can understand  what he wrote, in the way you understand what I write,  it is German, and in the time that I learned German, French, English and Spanish languages, not to forget Latin and Greek, you could acquire Morse code, and your HAM license, go to the disco and ride your motorbike or girl, so sorry I appear so stupid, because I had  less time left for all that fun.

73 Bob

Less understanding others can be more. Promote CW


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LX2GT on September 03, 2012, 06:49:15 AM
Quote
Das vollständige Druckwerk ist als PDF-Datei auf der im Juni 2003 erschienenen CD der AGCW e.V. zu finden.

That is the interesting bit. Telling you his work is contained on the June 2003 CD of the AGCW, in the form of a PDF. Would be quite interesting to take a read I guess.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 03, 2012, 06:51:11 AM
Luc, Bob, I came across the that too. If it was peer reviewed literature would it be copyrighted or could somebody scan it to the web? In the QST archives there is a 1972 article by O'Keefe that mentions the The Koch method, but also casts doubt on his science, so he probably was able to read the text.
  In some religions the priests access the ancient texts and then interpret them for the people, but for a deeper understanding of the man and his teachings it would be nice to bring his words back to life.
                      73 de Tom ab9nz Mount Prospect, Illinois
  


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 03, 2012, 08:11:33 PM
Here is a bit of an update. Silent key William G. Pierpont's book "The Art & Skill of Radio Telegraphy" is available for free download, and its 29th chapter gives his interpretation of Koch's work. There isn't any mention of Koch actually knowing Morse code, and surprisingly it included a graph paper type chart, sending dahs and dits with different tones, that 12 words per minute is the optimal speed for learning, and describes setbacks similar to those described in the LCWO forums by members "Badger" and "Izlep" http://lcwo.net/forum/763/Why-is-this-so-hard. Quite a bit different than what N1IRZ says while hawking his book "Morse Code: Breaking the Barrier"; "You can get an idea of how long it's going to take after you've mastered a few characters. Keep track of your training sessions (some software will do this for you) and calculate your hours-per-character rate (or characters-per-hour if you're really fast!). That, multiplied by the 43 characters in the amateur Morse test, will give a rough idea of how long it's going to take."
      73 de Tom, ab9nz, Mount Prospect, Illinois     


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 03, 2012, 11:06:15 PM
AB9NZ,

I get the impression that you want to dismiss Koch's research for one reason or another.


The essence of what it states about dual pitch is that the group that was subjected to it was learning faster than the group that was not.
While that is probably news to a lot of people, it makes perfect sense to me.

Dual pitch has been available in Just Learn Morse Code since 2005.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 04, 2012, 01:16:59 AM
AB9NZ,

Dual pitch has been available in Just Learn Morse Code since 2005.


It is not what you want to learn, something like you want to learn as child to walk and go exercising on a trike, 2 backwheels one steering frontwheel with paddles fixed attached, hence shorter then half the diameter of the wheel.

DJ1YFK tried left ear dots and right ear dashes. That is a dreadfull experience.

However I  learned Wabun, with dots in the right ear and dashes stereo. That was remarkably faster then mono reproduction.



Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 04, 2012, 06:48:05 AM
  Sigurd, I'll bet I want what you want. I want more and more people to experience the joy of CW operation. My fear is that since Koch is presented as the fastest and easiest way to learn Morse, if someone tries and fails with it (like myself), they won't try any other methods. It's fair to say that your hard work has given a great gift to the CW community, and that I've given nothing (other than encouragement).
   Looking through Ray's yahoo group and Fabian's forums I don't seem to be seeing anywhere near the same results as those presented by Dave Finley in his press release. Looking at the the original source work to see if something is being missed seems like a logical step. Koch seems to almost always be abandoned for Farnsworth, good or bad? Perhaps something as simple as repeating the computer sent code with a practice oscillator would be an aid to learning the characters?
   I think an open discussion of learning methods is healthy, and that good research is never afraid of having a light shined on it.
   I use your feature packed Just Learn Morse almost every day for speed building, but must admit that I sometimes use that other program just to hear the funny old world English spelling in the word bank.
       Very best of 73 de Tom ab9nz, Mount Prospect, Illinois


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 04, 2012, 07:13:55 AM
Tom,

I think it is worthful the questionize Kochs results.

When I see approaching 40 000 people subscribed to LCWO, I think DJ1YFK can show the statistics, he has available.
As a man with  scientific education, I expect he will do that, for the purpose of finding the truth.

When Koch could assemble a class of "students" that mastered 12w/minute in 13 hours (clever selected, because when you select 10000 students that could do it in 13 hours, it is easily to say : "Or were it 13 students in 10000 hours?"
I simple do not believe that, seeing the results in lcwo.

Bob PAoBLAH de enige echte. (as seen in Electron)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 04, 2012, 03:09:10 PM
Bob, you're missing the obvious.

How many people tries out an online solution with no investment is never going to give you useful statistics.

I took an online MIT course on circuits and electronics this spring.  It was pretty darn difficult.  Out of more than 150,000 people that signed up for the course, only 7,100 earned a certificate (passing grade).

Does that mean that MIT misrepresented how hard the course would be ?  It's tempting to jump to that conclusion if you don't dig deeper.

Digging deeper is possible for MIT because they have more information about the students than other offerings do.  It turns out that out of those 150,000+ people that signed up, only 69,000 took a look at the first problem set.  Only 26,000 earned a point on the first problem set.  And so it continues to the end.

The point really is that 7,100 people were commited to learning this, had the time and brains to do it, and MIT provided them with the tools to do it.  And that beats the heck out of any traditional teaching methods.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: M0LEP on September 04, 2012, 04:49:22 PM
Koch? Farnsworth? They're not gods. They're just tools. They may be useful for some. They won't help everyone. If they work for you, great! If you've given them a fair crack and they're not working, then try something else.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 04, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
Koch? Farnsworth?
try something else.
Like what ?

I'm not saying other methods don't work, in fact Just Learn Morse Code supports many other methods.  I'm just curious as to what methods actually work for somebody who failed with Koch's method.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: PA0BLAH on September 04, 2012, 05:11:19 PM
Bob, you're missing the obvious.

I think so, but there is a huge difference with your example. (Look at the royalties Agarwal received for the unbelievable number of books that is sold) No precedence for an undergraduate textbook.

-There are no starting requirements else then able to write.
- Even children of 6 years old perform it, when guided by parents.
- the only requirements are persistence and doing everyday 15 minutes exercising., no bright brains required.

The starters will learn Morse, but they want to get if for free,
and WHAT they get for free is experienced by them as worthless.

Other methods of learning Morse code: 2guys at the kitchen table, or that strange paid system with tales, just like you can find on internet, or the guy with the bunch of color coded resistors on his uniform, talking about EXACT he right length of signal elements.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZrX5Dc_5o and that paid system, that some guys say it was their way after no success with Koch etc.

Bob

Bob


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 04, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
The starters will learn Morse, but they want to get if for free

The same would apply to any method for learning Morse code, and thus it has nothing to do with the quality of Koch's method.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 04, 2012, 05:41:57 PM
Quote
Like what ?

I'm not saying other methods don't work, in fact Just Learn Morse Code supports many other methods.  I'm just curious as to what methods actually work for somebody who failed with Koch's method.
  Sigurd, when I failed with Koch I bought the Code Quick course and very easily learned the characters, then built speed with on air listening and operating, and your wonderful program. Bob calls the mnemonic system a "dog and pony show" and many others warn against it, but it sure worked great for me. No horrible plateaus, just a gradual climb to 30 wpm headcopy, I can't brag about my sending though :)
  73 de Tom, ab9nz   Mount Prospect, Illinois


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: LB3KB on September 04, 2012, 06:01:24 PM
when I failed with Koch I bought the Code Quick course and very easily learned the characters, then built speed with on air listening and operating, and your wonderful program.

That's very interesting, Tom.  There is merit to that system after all, then. ;o)

One interpretation would be that Koch as well as the traditional systems are not for everybody.  Maybe a small percentage of people actually do better with soundalikes etc.

I don't think it's fair to blame your initial failure on Koch, though.  It seems likely that you would have had an even harder time using the traditional visual methods.

Struggling with sending after learning to receive seems to be universal - it takes practice to get good at it and most people only practice sending on the air.  It goes without saying that it feels worse messing up sending if you're on the air.


I'm glad you found a system that worked for you.  Persistence pays off, and so does flexibility.  Congratulations!


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com (http://justlearnmorsecode.com)


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: M0LEP on September 05, 2012, 02:59:59 AM
I'm just curious as to what methods actually work for somebody who failed with Koch's method.

For me, a mixture of things including, but not limited to:

  • * Listening to known sequences of characters on a CD in the car. Repetitive "A B C ... X Y Z" stuff, though most of the sequences I've been using involve character pairs. The key is in the sequences being known, not random, but long enough for me to get lost and then pick them up again.
  • * Listening to GB2CW (http://www.rsgb.org.uk/morse/schedule.php) when it's receivable (which is about once a week, if I'm lucky). This is useful because  it needs to be written down, and it usually includes a lot of punctuation, and few abbreviations.
  • * Listening on-air to CW traffic, picking stations working at under about 20wpm, and using fldigi in CW mode. The trick here is in catching the program out. When I get more of a conversation than it does then I figure I'm making progress.
  • * Listening to call-signs, words, or canned QSOs generated by computer, one way or another, if listening on-air isn't possible.
  • * Practicing sending to fldigi, cwget, or some other piece of morse-reading software.
  • * Occasional actual on-air QSOs.


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 05, 2012, 06:46:59 AM
Quote
One interpretation would be that Koch as well as the traditional systems are not for everybody.  Maybe a small percentage of people actually do better with soundalikes etc.

I don't think it's fair to blame your initial failure on Koch, though.  It seems likely that you would have had an even harder time using the traditional visual methods.
   There are code charts out there, but I don't think anybody advocates a visual approach these days. What I was trying to express on this thread is that in my own very unscientific google searching and reading of Ray and Fabian's group and forums I've never seen where anyone other than LA3AKA and N1IRZ has achieved instant recognition via the Koch method. It appears to me that everybody falls back to the Farnsworth spacing which I read to be verboten in the Koch method. The words "German psychologist Ludwig Koch" carry a certain cachet, and my concern was that people were following an internet meme of a press release, and not the success of the method.
   Most likely scores of graduates of the Koch method will check into this forum and prove the fallacy of my worries which are only based only on a gut feeling and internet searching. Since he started with a clean slate, hopefully Davide will check back and share his experience with learning the characters via instant recognition. Of course in my questioning my intent was never to flame the hard work of the guys that create these wonderful Morse code programs. My deepest apologies if it was ever taken that way.
     73 de Tom, ab9nz    Mount Prospect, Illinois


Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: K7KBN on September 05, 2012, 07:07:06 AM
I posted this back in 2005, right here on eHam. 
------------------------

The first time I ever heard of learning code that way was in the old book (later made into a couple of movies) "Cheaper by the Dozen".  In the book - the true story of a family back in the 1920s -  the father is an "efficiency expert" who teaches his twelve children Morse code at the dinner table.  The only phrase I remember was that the letter "C" was "CAREless CHILdren". 

This is a self-limiting way to learn code: you hear "DAH di DAH dit", you then think "CAREless CHILdren", and then write down "C".  The idea should be to hear "DAH di DAH dit" and immediately write the "C" without the extra step.
-------------------------------------



Title: RE: Android: learn fast CW with Koch method
Post by: AB9NZ on September 05, 2012, 07:48:25 AM
MYTHBUSTER!
Pat, in my actual and recent experience I didn't find soundalikes to be limiting at all. After learning the characters with mnemonics, with casual operating and computer speed building I experienced a gradual climb to 30 wpm headcopy. So easy 12 kids could learn it at the kitchen table.
                   73, de Tom, ab9nz