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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: KB3YLQ on July 08, 2012, 04:20:15 AM



Title: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 08, 2012, 04:20:15 AM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/06/executive-order-assignment-national-security-and-emergency-preparedness-

It appears this would also apply to hams. What do you think?


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: WB6DGN on July 08, 2012, 11:37:19 AM
YOU READ ALL OF THAT???


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: G3RZP on July 08, 2012, 01:35:49 PM
It did strike me that it might be useful for hitting an HOA with........But then, over here, we have different ways ( just as, if not more, effective than the US - we have the EU as well!) of the government screwing the population.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 08, 2012, 02:03:26 PM
YOU READ ALL OF THAT???

Yeah, I'm nerdy that way, lol. The part that caught my eye was this:

Sec. 2.2. The Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) shall: (a) issue an annual memorandum to the NS/EP Communications Executive Committee (established in section 3 of this order) highlighting national priorities for Executive Committee analyses, studies, research, and development regarding NS/EP communications;

(b) advise the President on the prioritization of radio spectrum and wired communications that support NS/EP functions;


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KH6AQ on July 08, 2012, 05:04:29 PM
I did not see any mention of the amateur radio service.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 08, 2012, 05:57:23 PM
I did not see any mention of the amateur radio service.

Well, "radio spectrum" is all inclusive, no?


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KI4SDY on July 09, 2012, 06:14:39 PM
This is an Executive Order Power Grab, just in case Martial Law needs to be invoked to override the election. It is intentionally ambiguous, like all orders of this type, to hide its true intent in the open. You are smart guys. You should be able to figure it out!  ;D


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: W9GB on July 09, 2012, 08:36:07 PM
Quote
This is an Executive Order Power Grab, just in case Martial Law needs to be invoked to override the election. It is intentionally ambiguous, like all orders of this type, to hide its true intent in the open. You are smart guys. You should be able to figure it out!  
Guy,

You must not have read ALL the details, but decided this was a good rant topic, or make some cloaked political statement.

THE FINE PRINT.  This started with Executive Order 12333 of December 4, 1981 and EO 12382 of September 13, 1982 by Pres. Ronald Reagan.  I bet you did not know that !!
http://www.ncs.gov/library/policy_docs/eo_12382.html

It was amended by George W. Bush with EO 13286 on February 28, 2003, after 9/11 attacks and creation of Department of Homeland Security.  Some functions were transferred to Homeland Security.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-03-05/pdf/03-5343.pdf

Did you see where this Reagan provision was extended to Sept. 30, 2013 ??
That is for continuitation of our security to next federal fiscal year (well after federal elections).
Some of the other sections are updates, from 30 years ago (changes in department names, responsibilities by officials, FCC, etc.).

Boring paperwork is required from every public servant, for vigilence and to keep everything running.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KI4SDY on July 09, 2012, 08:59:40 PM
Gregory,

Since when is stating the obvious a political rant? Did I make a comment about a particular President or election? I am not the one that brought the topic up or that got defensive about it.  ;)


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KE4VVF on July 10, 2012, 07:19:11 AM
Martial Law 
Wasn't he on Gunsmoke? 
Isn't he related to Jude Law? 


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: N0MKC on July 10, 2012, 09:51:43 AM
Here's an extract from Computerworld.com on the topic - [emphasis mine]

Quote
The problem with the Executive Order is that it also grants the DHS new authority to seize private communication facilities when necessary and to effectively shut down or limit civilian communications in a national crisis, said the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC).

Amie Stepanovich, associate litigation council at EPIC pointed to a one-sentence provision in the order [Sec. 5.2 (e)] that directs the secretary of DHS to develop measures for ensuring that commercial and privately-owned communications resources are available for government use when appropriate.

The provision is troubling because it basically gives DHS new authority over private communication networks in emergency situations, she said. A takeover of private networks for government communications purposes during a crisis could degrade or severely compromise the civilian population's ability to communicate in an emergency, she maintained.

"This specific authority is something that should have been granted through Congress," rather than through executive order, Stepanovich noted.

Although the EO is ostensibly intended to provide for & facilitate emergency communications, something like this has great potential for misuse.  I wouldn't expect to see governmental "jack-booted thugs" kicking in hamshack doors, but this certainly could provide an interpretation permitting exactly that.

The policy-makers haven't been blind to the effects of technology & how it's enabling people to bypass governmental oversight of their communications and spread information that those in charge would prefer not to be disseminated - look at the effects of cell phones, Twitter, YouTube, etc. in the Arab Spring revolutions.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KD0REQ on July 10, 2012, 10:09:52 AM
the FCC has sweeping powers since 1934 to shut down, redirect, reallocate, and otherwise mung up your radio life already.  this is redundant legislation.

when Son #3 owned a bowling pro shop, he had the occasional customer who wouldn't be happy if you hung 'em with a NEW rope.  finally the son called another mentor ball driller and asked what to do.  "punch 'em an attitude hole" was the answer.  in other words, just fill and drill the hole where the guy wants it, give him a handshake, and tell him, "I hope this works for you, if you have any other issues call (whutchie) at (wheresis)."

this EO is an "attitude hole" to settle the rants of some other a-- hole.  enough said.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KE5PPH on July 10, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
Does anyone else think it bizarre, that the statement refers to the need for the gov't to "talk to itself"?


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KD0REQ on July 10, 2012, 02:07:54 PM
there has always been an issue even cross-town with police talking to the sheriff, or fire department... they don't have the radios for the other frequencies.  allegedly the digital upgrades some departments are paying for allow this, but you have to get the correct frequency allocations.

in short, the 911 case got attention because the others are seen as "local" issues.

if certain folks were even moderately clever, they would have frequency agile radios with, say, two or three talk buttons assignable for locally appropriate frequencies.  said freqs to be assigned regionally in blocks, not randomly spit out of the file cabinet because this one is next freq up.  or use cellular technology with a Selcall or subaudible tone underneath it, so you hit red and talk if you need the sheriff's office, then green and start talking if you want to talk to local police, and so on.

but there is a silo mentality in Washington, not a coordination mentality.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 10, 2012, 03:41:20 PM
Well, it does seem to centralize control of the airwaves under a single agency, by executive order rather than through the legislative process.

Make of that what you will. Personally, I see it for what it is: another in a long list of power grabs.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 10, 2012, 03:47:24 PM
Here's an interesting take: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9228950/White_House_order_on_emergency_communications_riles_privacy_group

"The problem with the Executive Order is that it also grants the DHS new authority to seize private communication facilities when necessary and to effectively shut down or limit civilian communications in a national crisis, said the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC)."

That should alarm anyone, right, left, or middle. That's taking out both the 1st and 4th amendments in one swipe.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KG4NEL on July 12, 2012, 06:44:19 AM
Here's an interesting take: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9228950/White_House_order_on_emergency_communications_riles_privacy_group

"The problem with the Executive Order is that it also grants the DHS new authority to seize private communication facilities when necessary and to effectively shut down or limit civilian communications in a national crisis, said the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC)."

That should alarm anyone, right, left, or middle. That's taking out both the 1st and 4th amendments in one swipe.

It's bad enough when there's an emergency and everybody's first reaction is to reach for their phones and swamp the networks. Can you imagine the chaos if such a blackout was triggered deliberately?

As for radio, I'm not worried about this affecting hams in the least. This isn't WWI; we're so far down on the list of awareness I doubt they'd even bother.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: AC4RD on July 12, 2012, 09:24:25 AM
It's bad enough when there's an emergency and everybody's first reaction is to reach for their phones and swamp the networks. Can you imagine the chaos if such a blackout was triggered deliberately?

I'm not certain, but I do believe I've read that local authorities can have cell providers reserve spectrum for local officials and emergency responses, keeping out the general public as needed ... and that they have done so at times.  I think I recall hearing that it was done in Chapel Hill some years ago.  (I might be wrong; it's certainly happened before.)  That sort of plan certainly sounds logical on the "greatest good" principle.

And I agree with you--if the local authorities have trunked 800MHz systems and a lock on the local cellphone channels, they're not likely to want that little chunk of 30 meter spectrum where I'm trying to work 5J.   :)


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: W9GB on July 12, 2012, 10:15:56 AM
SB QST @ ARL $ARLB018
ARLB018 Executive Order Poses No Threat to the Amateur Radio Service

ZCZC AG19
QST de W1AW
ARRL Bulletin 18  ARLB018
From ARRL Headquarters
Newington CT  July 12, 2012

To All Radio Amateurs

SB QST ARL ARLB018
ARLB018 Executive Order Poses No Threat to the Amateur Radio Service


On July 6, 2012, the White House released an Executive Order that addresses National Security and Emergency Preparedness (NS/EP) communications functions of the federal government. Contrary to some concerns raised in a few Amateur Radio circles, the Order does not appear to contain any threat to the Amateur Service or its ability to continue support communications during times of emergency or disaster. It also poses no threat to amateur spectrum.

"The purpose of the new entity, which would be created by this Order within the Executive Branch, appears to be to plan for future NS/EP communications and to insure survivability, hardness and interoperability, as well as to develop a long-term strategic plan for NS/EP communications," said ARRL Regulatory Information Manager Dan Henderson, N1ND. "Based on the Amateur Service's ongoing, positive working relationship with officials at the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Emergency Communications, it is hard to envision that any new management plan would not include Amateur Radio. Nothing in this Order directly affects Amateur Radio's daily operations."

A good summary of the content of the Order can be found online at,
http://www.federalnewsradio.com/519/2933910/Obama-assigns-new-responsibilities-for-keeping-government-connected-in-case-of-emergency.

NNNN
/EX


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KE4DRN on July 12, 2012, 06:44:23 PM
hi, this summary is interesting...

The system includes a number of programs, such as the Government Emergency Telecommunications Service (GETS), which allow federal agencies to access telephone and wireless service in the event of high-outages or services disruptions.

Its tagline is "When the going gets tough, GETS keeps you going."

They will access the systems in the event of high outages?

73 james


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: KB3YLQ on July 13, 2012, 03:36:06 AM
I think the ARRL position is naive. If someone wanted to shut down communication, an executive order permitting the seizure of private radio facilities and equipment would be a way to do it. I lived through Watergate, so I'm cynical about stuff like this. :) Remember when BART shut down cell traffic? How about the national "test" a few months ago?

Sorry, I'm just not comfortable with ANY department (non-partisan here) having the authority to just take possession of private equipment without due process.

What constitutes an "emergency?"


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: NA4IT on July 13, 2012, 04:38:48 AM
3 key words... Obama signed it... that worries me.


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: N9KX on July 15, 2012, 07:45:07 AM
3 key words... Obama signed it... that worries me.

Reagan initiated it -- that worries me more  ;)


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: N0SYA on July 16, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
http://freedomthistime.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/left-right-slaughterhouse.png


Title: RE: New Executive Order involving communications.
Post by: G3RZP on July 18, 2012, 11:40:23 AM
It maybe that from this side of the pond, I have a cynical attitude regarding all government agencies. The probability of ANY of them knowing enough to do ANYTHING in such an emergency is remote and it would fall to a very few local people - who would probably be ARES anyway!

Although I do remember reading that in some US floods (Red River? 1938?) some mayor tried to stop a ham sending emergency traffic because it made the township look bad. Somebody find teh details....