eHam

eHam Forums => Software Defined Radio => Topic started by: NI0Z on July 30, 2012, 01:15:16 PM



Title: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on July 30, 2012, 01:15:16 PM
What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD5GWY on July 30, 2012, 05:07:25 PM
There will always be people wanting the latest and greatest. That is human nature.
Yes, the features listed for the 6500 and the 6700 are very impressive. And if I had
the money to spend (without regret), I would want one too.
  As for the software, the current situation with Flex as far as SmartSDR is concerned,
is the fact that after a certain amount of time, you will have to pay for upgrades. Not
for updates (aka Bug Fixes) but for upgrades that might add new capabilities to your
existing hardware. Some take issue with that and with good reason. Others, feel that if
they can spend $4300 to $7500 for a radio that an added $200 to get the latest features
is worth it. Those used to the FREE updates and bug fixes from Flex for PowerSDR might
have a harder time with the idea. Personally, I like free. But, sometimes free isn't all it's
cracked up to be.
  And besides all that, I have yet to see a fully operational 6500 or 6700. I have seen the
hardware and a mockup display of the intended software interface (HAMCOM 2012).
But, without even seeing one working either live, or a prerecording like they demo for
the 1500,3000.and 5000, where you can actually interact with it, (tune around and test
filtering etc.) I'll pass before jumping into the deep end on a promise and a bit of interesting hardware, display.
  Flex has promised to post on their website the video that they showed to people
at their luncheon in Dayton. But, that has yet to materialize. It was supposed to contain
more in-depth information and demos than what they have shown at Dayton and other hamfests around the country.
  I'm actually amazed that they have had an "overwhelming response" with preorders
and with no actual, live demo of such expensive hardware. Even Kenwood did not try
to take pre-orders before the 990 comes out. Gutsy thing for Flex to do in a way!!!
Guess we'll see by Christmas!!
james
WD5GWY

   


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on July 30, 2012, 05:51:56 PM
I'm actually amazed that they have had an "overwhelming response" with preorders

I was told lots of things myself before I bought a Flexradio. I distinctly remember being told CW works great and the 160 mtr transmit spur was going to be Fixed with a software update in 4 weeks. All Lies....

Overwhelming response? Uh huh right....
LMAO

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on July 30, 2012, 05:55:13 PM
I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

You been hanging around this eham SDR forum for too long. You are starting to  think like K9IUQ and Gene.

Flexers will start saying You are mean.  :D :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on July 30, 2012, 06:21:16 PM
Folks, I am serious about my question.  Sure it sounds and looks cool, but what's the practicality of it all?  Ok, so if a person has the capacity to look at a Panadaptor for let's say 8 bands all at once while they are working contacts then seeing a band open up could be useful. 

If the CAT interface doesn't enable a direct connection to the rig and runs through SmartSDR then we may have PSDR all over again.  It would be nice if they make a program you could run under the OS running like a server process that would look like a virtual com port and radio for CAT control,so no focus is required, but I have not heard that yet from anyone.  That could make the rig interesting for contesting if the rules didn't prevent it from being used as far as multi and monitoring.

Ethernet, well, that will surely be better than FireWire but perhaps not as stable as USB or FireWire.

If you don't have a great antenna system and clean clean installed shack, you may never realize the improved receiver capabilities.

We will even loose the Tobias knobs fork when we switch over to SmartSDR unless they provide something.

So again, I am genuinely interested in hearing a real value other than its cool and you can see 8 bands all at one.  The Ethernet is not worth $7500 in my mind unless they Internet enable it for a club to share or something.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on July 30, 2012, 06:55:12 PM
Folks, I am serious about my question. 

Ok. I suggest you are asking the question in the wrong forum if you really are looking for answers. Try the Flex Reflectors.

There are few True Flex Believers left here on eham. Most have gotten disillusioned by the truths they have read here about Flexradio and have moved back to the Flex Reflectors where they can feel good by talking to those that will not question their Flex Beliefs.

I doubt you will find anyone here that is seriously thinking about buying a Flex 6700. I suspect you really gotta be a Well Heeled Hard Core Flex Fan Boy to consider the 6700. Someone that has more $$ than sense.  Average hams need not apply.

My question to myself: Why would I ever want to buy any Flexradio again at any price??

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KA4POL on July 30, 2012, 09:43:51 PM
Why should I buy a Ferrari when am happy with my Porsche  8)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N9RO on July 31, 2012, 06:48:48 AM
The future of ham radio is in the apps not the Sherwood numbers.  Routable IP radios are needed for these apps and radio's like the 6000 series are the building blocks for the future.  Think of it in terms of your mobile phone, it is like moving from the old MTS (Mobile Telephone Service) to today's LTE (Long Term Evolution) network.   The possibilities are endless.

Tim  N9RO


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on July 31, 2012, 07:29:50 AM
Tim,

I don't disagree with the App concept, in fact I have been advocating it for a while now.  The big box they are making though is an unessary step in the evolution in my mind.  They should be thinking smaller and more nimble.

The non ham and military segments with regards to SDR development are going compact.  For example, there is no reason why an iPhone sized device couldnt be created for hams.  Where we will need to go though, is outside the box that traditionally we think about.  For example, smaller connectors, onboard screen, no dials, downloaded functions and updates, docking stations, ect.

I think things will change when the paradigm shifts, and I believe it's already starting to, that we want to deal with less data from the bands rather than trying to wrap out arms arou call of it,  a model like this scans for incoming signals and creates meta data that the user interacts with verses full blown data.  If a user then chooses some level of interaction with thatmpiece of the band then processing can begin to transform it to the level it needs.  For example, it's easier to represent band location and signal strength and even signal shape than it is to also represent the actual data/voice carried within the signal.

A lighter flex radio that provided this would have been equally useful for the majority of hams.  I don't see many people we ring to record, store and scan gobs of bandwidth data offline.  That's more a limited practice than the norm.  The latter function requires a lot more hardware and power to perform than something that condenses and symbolizes signals until interaction is required.

Anyway, I think we will see some interesting developments over the next two years.

Part of the problem is if I offered a ham a device the size of an iPhone or an HT and said here is your FT-5000 replacement I don't think it would be received very well at first.  Think of all the immediate stereo types that would come to mind!

No knobs
Too small to be powerful
No way to hook it to a real antenna or amp

Ect ect..

This article will help illustrate where I am coming from.  Just fou d it after I finished this post.
http://groups.winnforum.org/p/bl/et/blogid=20&blogaid=20



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N0YXB on July 31, 2012, 09:13:00 AM
I don't want my rig to be too small, I might lose it.   ;)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on July 31, 2012, 09:48:38 AM
Lol  ;D ;D

It will come with a neck chain!

Also, I hear they are working on a modified propeller cap that has a 3 element Yagi for your tiny SDR with Bluetooth headset and goggles with simulated 100 inch screen.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: QRPNEW on August 03, 2012, 06:52:22 PM
I can do all this on  HPSDR Hermes for say 1500 dollars with a 100 watt PA!

For the price asked for the new Flex I can have a HPSDR Hermes in every band!

While a remote shack seems attractive there is no protocol and standards yet for all the accessories. I cant find or buy a amp, wattmeter, rotator, bandswitch, keyer, power supply  and just about everything else that has a inbuilt
ethernet port. Having a transceiver alone sitting on its old Island without any means of controlling anything else achieves very little. I can buy a TS480HX if just wanted this feature.

This is more about the vision, and the vision will not be built by Flexradio alone. In the ham service there is a need for open source development that  can be used by every ham in the world. We really need to start
thinking about the inter-connectivity   that will make remote shacks possible. Buying 7000 dollar radios with remote operation thrown in as a marketing feature will not give you a instant remote shack. Remoting
a shack is a lot of work  and  time that you have to do yourself with workarounds because the solutions do not exist yet.

The Flexradio just looks to  me to  be a grossly overpriced piece of hardware whose specifications and features dont offer state of the art performance that matches its huge price. A 7000 dollar radio with 13.8 volt PA,
how horrible can get?




What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: ZENKI on August 03, 2012, 07:13:38 PM
The new  Flexradio will have special noise blanker in it. It can cancel all the spurs  of Flex5000 users.
It will also have miracle technology that will allow you to suppress other stations IMD, splatter and keyclicks  which will allow you to use all those great receiver numbers.

In the meant time on transmit, you will use your 13.8 volt CB PA built into your Flexradio wonder box that will  destroy everyone other hams noise floor. Thats the marvels of technology progression. 2 steps forward and 5 backwards!

For   final asking price you would have thought that Flex radio could have used  a high voltage FET PA with adaptive pre-distortion like the ADAT transceiver. With all that DSP horsepower  under the hood, adaptive per-distortion could
have easily been added. There is however little point adding pre-distortion to the PA when you using 13.8 volt CB PA devices. This is as cheap and nasty as you can get, its really an insult for the 7000 dollar price. The Yaesu FT5000
delivers superb IMD performance and uses proper RF PA devices. As usual the suckers  drinking the koolaid will say its the latest and the best.

The Hermes transceiver  will suffer from the same malaise, excellent IMD performance that will be ruined by most users by using sub standard CB PA designs. All the after market PA offerings 
are just rubbish designs with very poor IMD performance.  I am sure the hams who take the issue of transmitter IMD seriously will build themselves proper PA designs.



I can do all this on  HPSDR Hermes for say 1500 dollars with a 100 watt PA!

For the price asked for the new Flex I can have a HPSDR Hermes in every band!

While a remote shack seems attractive there is no protocol and standards yet for all the accessories. I cant find or buy a amp, wattmeter, rotator, bandswitch, keyer, power supply  and just about everything else that has a inbuilt
ethernet port. Having a transceiver alone sitting on its old Island without any means of controlling anything else achieves very little. I can buy a TS480HX if just wanted this feature.

This is more about the vision, and the vision will not be built by Flexradio alone. In the ham service there is a need for open source development that  can be used by every ham in the world. We really need to start
thinking about the inter-connectivity   that will make remote shacks possible. Buying 7000 dollar radios with remote operation thrown in as a marketing feature will not give you a instant remote shack. Remoting
a shack is a lot of work  and  time that you have to do yourself with workarounds because the solutions do not exist yet.

The Flexradio just looks to  me to  be a grossly overpriced piece of hardware whose specifications and features dont offer state of the art performance that matches its huge price. A 7000 dollar radio with 13.8 volt PA,
how horrible can get?




What's the expected value proposition for those considering laying down $7500 for one?  I am assuming the price after Aug 5th in case your wondering why $7500 because I can't see ordering one right now with so little to go off of.

I am not trying to be mean or anything with this question, I just have been thinking about why would someone buy one.

If we can refrain from all the reason why a person wouldn't without someone at least posting reasons they would, that would be great.

I can think of Ethernet connectivity as 1 and ability to monitor several bands all at once as another.  I am not sure the first justifies the price alone.  The second is cool however I am not sure how practical it will be for the masses.  I guess new software may be a benefit, however new software for a while also means new bugs and issues.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on August 04, 2012, 10:22:53 AM

For   final asking price you would have thought that Flex radio could have used  a high voltage FET PA with adaptive pre-distortion like the ADAT transceiver. With all that DSP horsepower  under the hood, adaptive per-distortion could
have easily been added. There is however little point adding pre-distortion to the PA when you using 13.8 volt CB PA devices. This is as cheap and nasty as you can get, its really an insult for the 7000 dollar price. The Yaesu FT5000
delivers superb IMD performance and uses proper RF PA devices. As usual the suckers  drinking the koolaid will say its the latest and the best.

The Hermes transceiver  will suffer from the same malaise, excellent IMD performance that will be ruined by most users by using sub standard CB PA designs. All the after market PA offerings  
are just rubbish designs with very poor IMD performance.  I am sure the hams who take the issue of transmitter IMD seriously will build themselves proper PA designs.


Why don't you get off your arm chair and design a good low IMD PA and contribute the design to the Ham community instead of whining about 13.8 V CB type amps all the time?

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NO9E on August 06, 2012, 12:27:53 PM
There is a movement in this direction even in ham radio. First step called KX3.... A little bigger than iPhone
but more power that could have been delivered in Iphone size.
Ignacy, NO9E

...

The non ham and military segments with regards to SDR development are going compact.  For example, there is no reason why an iPhone sized device couldnt be created for hams.  
...



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on August 08, 2012, 09:05:58 PM
I wouldn't even consider buying one of these until they've been on the market for at least a year. Let others work out all of the inevitable hardware and software bugs that are bound to plague the early versions. Being an early adopter can be a real bitch sometimes.

I must admit, however, that reading the spec sheet for this thing is a real eye-opener. Just the fact that they're no longer pumping data back and forth between the rig and a PC running Windows (which was never designed to be a real-time OS) over firewire is sure to help performance considerably. The question remains whether they can make everything work properly right out of the gate. I doubt it.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WA7KGX on August 11, 2012, 09:51:00 PM
I saw the mock-up at Seaside this year.
Two items are show stoppers for me
considering the premium price.

1) Low power output on 2m

2) No ability to transmit on the upcoming MF band
without a transverter.

Considering that the board Flex were showing
looked like a production item, the lack of an
actual radio making noises in the booth was
significant.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K1ZJH on August 17, 2012, 12:05:45 PM
By the time we actually get the MF band Flex will be selling the FLEX 12,000 series...
6700 will be long obsolete.

 ;D


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WB8LBZ on August 18, 2012, 08:33:41 AM
Hi All,
   Do you think anyone dare to ask this question of an Icom 7800 owner that shelled out $12,300 (current AES Price) or an owner of a Yaesu 9000MP at $11870 (AES Price)? I have friends that own the Icom 7800 and an Icom 756 Pro III in the shack and no one questioned them, it is more like a Wow what a station.
   I saw the problems with the 5000 and decided not to buy one. When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money and I wanted it. This thread is worn out and only serves as a place for unhappy Flex-5000 owners to vent.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on August 18, 2012, 08:40:23 AM
Hi All,
   Do you think anyone dare to ask this question of an Icom 7800 owner that shelled out $12,300 (current AES Price) or an owner of a Yaesu 9000MP at $11870 (AES Price)? I have friends that own the Icom 7800 and an Icom 756 Pro III in the shack and no one questioned them, it is more like a Wow what a station.
   I saw the problems with the 5000 and decided not to buy one. When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money and I wanted it. This thread is worn out and only serves as a place for unhappy Flex-5000 owners to vent.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ



Or a place for future Flex 6700/6500 owners to try to justify spending their money on a radio that does not exist yet.   ;D

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N9RO on August 18, 2012, 10:01:18 AM

Quote
When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed

No justification needed?  The radio does not really exist yet, it has not been proven to work as advertised as far as I know?  In addition, they will not let anything out regarding the software which I think has not been written yet.  Only thing everyone know for sure is that it will NOT be a network radio with the first release but yet they push that it is designed for networking.  Think of it, they want you to purchase their great network radio.  However,  the networking will not be in the first release it will come later.  No, I am not an unhappy Flex owner, I have a 5000 loaded, 3000 and 1500 and will have a 6000 series once I see they WORK as advertised.  But, no way would I give Flex $$ for a radio I cannot see work,  with their record on delivery it may be a LONG time before you get what you think you are getting.  Have you not looked at their history?

Good Luck,
Tim


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on August 18, 2012, 05:51:08 PM
Hi All,
   Do you think anyone dare to ask this question of an Icom 7800 owner that shelled out $12,300 (current AES Price) or an owner of a Yaesu 9000MP at $11870 (AES Price)?
73, Larry  WB8LBZ

Larry, I believe the question is being asked because Icom and Yaesu do not ask for a couple of thousand dollar$ down payment for a radio that is not yet in existence. Did Kenwood ask for $$$$ for a yet to be delivered TS-990s? No of course not. Kenwood buyers (and Icom and Yaesu) buyers would not put up with that kind of BS marketing.

Flexradio however knows that their rabid my radio is the best customers will do anything to continue the myth. Even if it is not rational, like putting $$$$$$$$ down on a promise from a compnay that has one of the worst track records for promises....

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on August 18, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
Think of it, they want you to purchase their great network radio.  However,  the networking will not be in the first release it will come later. 

Tim

I did not know that. What then is the interface if not Ethernet? Surely not not Firewire again.

It will Come later, yes. It took Flexradio over 3 years to Fix the 160 meter xmit spurs on the 5K and then only after a bit of nagging.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N9RO on August 18, 2012, 08:21:17 PM
Quote
I did not know that. What then is the interface if not Ethernet? Surely not not Firewire again

Ethernet will be in place for the GUI over your LAN but this will not be an Internet radio with the initial software release.  From Flex:  "Initial software enables operation within the home network domain. Future releases will enable operation from any location in the world with an Internet connection."  It is my understanding eventually this will be a fully routable radio.  If I am wrong someone please correct me. This is a big deal for many of us.

Tim


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on August 19, 2012, 07:50:31 PM
And the funny thing is, Elecraft already has a remote K3 head for Internet access, with knobs.  The head is under a grand to add to your K3.  There is a YouTube video of it out there in action, response time is amazingly good.

So, instead of windows crashing and interrupting your QSO, it will be your ISP hiccuping, or your kid firing up the latest network hog of a game!  Lol

Honestly, for the money, you'd be better off buying a highend rfspace SDR and pairing it with a high quality knobbed rig, link the two together so the VFOs track.  You could even do that with the K3 already and just leave your SDR on the network and access it remotely and use the k3 head.

The next few years will be interesting for SDRs, but it's still a slow path, so I think we are talking 3-5 years before we get the real game changers.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WA7LZO on October 25, 2012, 08:18:56 AM
I am looking forward to sitting in Starbucks, sipping my 190 degree Vente Latte, whilst punching and tapping away on my Windows 8 Microsoft Surface PRO, via the Starbucks WiFi, connected over the net to my remote 6700. Yes, Starbuck's WiFi is slow, so I expect to have but one band w/ one slice, at least while operating remote under such a slow connection. Perfectly adequate for me. As to timing, my expectation is sometime in 2014 or 2015, and I am very patient. If the 6700 materializes sooner, with the Ethernet Internet remote connection capability, well, that'll be icing on the cake. Hopefully, perhaps Icom will introduce a Flex 6700 buster, and we'll have at least 2 choices. Expensive, Yes, but the 6700 is the same price as an IC-7700, and it may turn out to be a much superior radio. Only time will tell.

73,

Larry
WA7LZO


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K5TED on October 25, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
There is a movement in this direction even in ham radio. First step called KX3.... A little bigger than iPhone
but more power that could have been delivered in Iphone size.
Ignacy, NO9E

...

The non ham and military segments with regards to SDR development are going compact.  For example, there is no reason why an iPhone sized device couldnt be created for hams.  
...


The KX3 is hardly "a little bigger" than an iPhone.  The KX3 cabinet is 43.7 cubic inches, the iPhone 5, about 3.3 cubic inches. That is over an order of magnitude difference.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N5RWJ on October 25, 2012, 08:23:16 PM
Some of us, may be wondering what will on the ham market,  10 years from now and what the low price will be?


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on October 26, 2012, 04:28:04 AM
I am looking forward to sitting in Starbucks, sipping my 190 degree Vente Latte, whilst punching and tapping away on my Windows 8 Microsoft Surface PRO, via the Starbucks WiFi, connected over the net to my remote 6700.

73,

Larry
WA7LZO


Meanwhile in the Real Ham World - - I will continue to chug my reheated yesterdays Folgers sitting in the unkempt radioroom in my Boxers and T-Shirt, twiddling the knobs while working DX the Old School Way.

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD4ELG on October 26, 2012, 10:29:07 PM
WA7LZO, now THAT is how we roll with SDR.  Well-stated, Larry.  Bravo. 

K9IUQ, Stan, I hear ya.  In fact, I got my TS520S down from the attic (still in mint condition from 1978) after reading your posts for the past several months.  You have inspired me, Sir, to never forget the Old School Way!   :)    The 520S sits to the left of the dual monitors for my Flex 3000.  I still fire it up and spin the knob and work a few contacts at least once a week.  Not because I don't like Flex (call me a Flex fanatic...if the shoe fits), but because I like the memories of how hamming was when I was a teenager in 1978 (and that experience is still valid for many today, perfectly happy with knobs and dials).  Nothing like tuning that pair of 6146B's and hammering on the straight key for that TS520S to remind me what it as like.  It's nostalgic, and as I get old I like to remember.  But then I see a pileup spotted on the DX cluster, and I swivel the chair back to the Flex and I am back in the 21st century again! 

Man, I love this hobby.

Back to the original topic.  The 6700, regardless of ready for prime time, is a bit too expensive for me.  I have some heartburn spending $8K+ on any rig, regardless of manuf.  I guess I just don't have the skills to take advantage of an extra couple of microvolts of sensitivity on the receiver.  The Flex 3000 does everything I need.

But, if I had some extra money in my pocket, I would buy one in advance.  I have grown accustomed to being on the "bleeding edge" of sorts at work with software, so Flex aligns the hobby with that approach.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WA6MJE on November 01, 2012, 07:44:35 PM
I am probably going to buy one.  I just want to wait until a few of them are in the hands of early adopters, so I can read what they say about them.  Why buy? 

I have been a ham for 55 years.  Certain changes over the years were "game changers" that got me to dig into my wallet.  My first rigs were home brewed from old TV tubes, and re-purposed resistors and "condensers."  Being able to buy a store bought receiver and transmitter was a game changer.  They had features I could not really build out of junk parts.  So I bought a set.  Then, they came up with transceivers, one small box got rid of a half a garage of equipment.  So I bought one.  Then they invented transistors, which allowed a smaller, cooler better running transceiver.  An then integrated circuits, DSP, and amazing features.  So I had to upgrade and buy one.  This is about five decades of "game changers". 

Over the last decade I got to move into digital modes.  Along the way, I lost a competitive edge when I moved into communities where I had to hide antennas, and could no longer have directional antennas up high.  Digital modes were a "game changer" for me, since low power, and compromised antenna could still be overcome by the efficiency of digital modes.

So now I see the Flex 6700 as another game changer, but not for the reasons in their brochure.  I mostly like to work DX.  I do not really rag chew.  If you examine the work flow of finding DX, it is more of a factor of "finding" a station, than it is a factor of having more power, or a better receiver.  Most rigs can reach anywhere in the world, and spending $10,000 on a rig helps some, but is not really a game changer over the performance of a lower priced rig. 

Most of the hours looking for DX is spent dialing from one end of a band to the other, stopping, listening, moving, stopping etc. a very tedious inefficient work flow. When I started with PSK31 I noticed how efficient it was to just watch 10 to 20 stations at time and not have to touch a dial.  Then when I did JT-65 HF I noticed the same thing.  All the stations were in one waterfall, and I could just watch.  And then software like JT Alert could read the call sign, look at my log, and call me over to the computer if an interesting DX station showed up.  So I can do radio all day and all night, without physically sitting at the transceiver, and dialing from one end of the band to the other, and back, over and over and over.

So now, I am learning that with a wide bandwidth panadapter, I can watch more of the band at a time.  It is more of an efficient workflow for DX.  My big dream is to pick one or two bands that are open near the MUF, and then set up a SDR receiver "slice" to monitor CW with CW Skimmer, and PSK 31, and JT65, and maybe one or more of the digital modes at the same time.  Let the software do all the work of incessant vigilance. Just let me know when something interesting shows up, alert me, and then I will take over.  My "fun" is in engineering an integrated system of hardware, software, stealth antennas that will work together as whole to be the most competitive DX hunting machine I can get under the antenna limitations I have to live with.  This station I have planned in my mind, is, for me, a real game changer. The Flex 6500 or 6700 is probably the only choice that will allow me to watch 4 or 8 slices simultaneously.  AND, with the thin client, I do not even need to stay in my home.  I can have the alerts sent to me by text, whip out a tablet computer and see what is going on, make the contact, log it, and continue about my day from anywhere.

At my age, this will probably be my last new rig, in five decades of having new life emerge from an old hobby I had since age 13.  I cannot wait until 2013 to see how the hype of the Flex 6700 pans out, and I expect that it will at least to some degree be enough of a benefit in terms of managing the work flow of stalking DX stations across digital realms. 

I love shopping for rigs (and all forms of technology), and read about new technology for fun.  None of the new rigs over the last few years, nor the ones on the horizon such as the Kenwood 990 motivate me to open my wallet.  BUT, the new Flex does, and a few months after the first rigs hit the market I expect I will hit the buy button.

So that is my long winded post about why I want to buy the Flex.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 01, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
So I can do radio all day and all night, without physically sitting at the transceiver, and dialing from one end of the band to the other, and back, over and over and over.

It probably won't be too long before someone writes an application that does it all. Then we'll be able to turn everything on, walk away, and have the software do everything. It'll monitor the bands, worked any needed DX, send out confirmations, and then finally apply for DXCC with no operator intervention. A complete turn-key solution.

No more manually tuning the bands, hunting down elusive DX during the wee hours of the morning, perfecting your pileup techniques, etc., because the software will do it all for you. All you'll have to do is click a button on your computer screen and wait for the DXCC certificate to arrive in the mail, followed a few months later by your #1 Honor Roll certificate.

And after this is perfected, we can go on to design a hunting robot that'll roam the woods, locate and kill a deer, dress the meat, and deliver it to the freezer all by itself. Ditto for fishing.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 05, 2012, 01:04:44 PM
In the meant time on transmit, you will use your 13.8 volt CB PA built into your Flexradio wonder box that will  destroy everyone other hams noise floor. Thats the marvels of technology progression. 2 steps forward and 5 backwards.

I was surprised when I read the Flex-6000 series brochure. It's almost like Flex spent all of their time on the receiver design and the transmitter was a distant afterthought. Most of their competitors in that price range ($6K - $10K) use 50 volt PA designs.

I wonder if the Flex-6000 PA will support a 100% duty cycle?


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K1ZJH on November 08, 2012, 06:32:30 AM
Weren't these supposed to be shipping by now???  ::)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 08, 2012, 08:10:35 AM
Weren't these supposed to be shipping by now???  ::)

Depending on who you believe, they were supposed to start shipping in late Q3 or Q4 of this year. If you go to the Flex web site today, you'll see the following:

"FLEX-6000 Signature Series SDRs which are ordered now from our On-Line Store are slated for delivery in the 2nd quarter of 2013."

Whether this means that first shipments have slipped out to Q2 2013 or just orders received now is open to interpretation as the web site does not make this clear. If they mean that first shipments have slipped to Q2, then we may not be seeing them until as late as June 2013.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K1ZJH on November 08, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
I have no dog in this fight, but it seems silly to be taking orders for a "radio" 1 year in advance. I have to wonder if they even have a working prototype on hand?

Pete


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WB2WIK on November 08, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
I have no dog in this fight, but it seems silly to be taking orders for a "radio" 1 year in advance. I have to wonder if they even have a working prototype on hand?

Pete

I understand they do.  But going from prototype to production via required de-bugging and FCC Certification can take a long time.  If they want to sell it into the EU market, it will require CE Mark, which has been updated to include a long list of RoHS requirements (contained within the CE Declaration).

I like the way Apple operates: Keep new products a closely guarded secret until they're already mass produced, then leak the information shortly before the stores are stocked, and let it loose.  Seems to work really well for them and they maintain a high level of credibility.



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 08, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
I have no dog in this fight, but it seems silly to be taking orders for a "radio" 1 year in advance. I have to wonder if they even have a working prototype on hand?

They must have working prototypes in their development lab, but they certainly have not shown one at any of the hamfests they've attended. All they've shown so far is an open box in a plexiglass case and a mock-up of the control software that runs on a Windows PC. They have not shown any working hardware.

One wonders what effect on sales of their current products the Flex-6000 announcement has had. Shades of the Osborne Effect! The lower priced rigs (1500, 3000) probably won't be affected much, but the 5000A might see reduced sales as people wait for the 6000 series.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K1ZJH on November 08, 2012, 04:31:28 PM
I have no dog in this fight, but it seems silly to be taking orders for a "radio" 1 year in advance. I have to wonder if they even have a working prototype on hand?

They must have working prototypes in their development lab, but they certainly have not shown one at any of the hamfests they've attended. All they've shown so far is an open box in a plexiglass case and a mock-up of the control software that runs on a Windows PC. They have not shown any working hardware.

One wonders what effect on sales of their current products the Flex-6000 announcement has had. Shades of the Osborne Effect! The lower priced rigs (1500, 3000) probably won't be affected much, but the 5000A might see reduced sales as people wait for the 6000 series.

I guess so, but it would seem to dampen any enthusiasm for existing product lines.

Pete


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 09, 2012, 05:54:13 AM
Weren't these supposed to be shipping by now???  ::)

Previous Flexradio promises have been S L O W to arrive. Sometimes they don't arrive at all.  :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 09, 2012, 08:49:55 AM
Previous Flexradio promises have been S L O W to arrive. Sometimes they don't arrive at all.  :D

Stan,

I'm surprised you don't have a Flex-6000 on order yet as this year's must-have fashion item, a Flexradio jacket monogrammed with your call sign, is part of the deal. If you can't actually have the rig yet, you can still look spiffy in your new jacket.  :P


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 09, 2012, 09:57:42 AM


I'm surprised you don't have a Flex-6000 on order yet as this year's must-have fashion item, a Flexradio jacket monogrammed with your call sign, is part of the deal. If you can't actually have the rig yet, you can still look spiffy in your new jacket.  :P

I already look pretty spiffy in my Kenwood Jacket (30 years old), my White Yaesu Hat and Icom T-Shirt (Icom on the front and AES on the back) and of course my DX Engineering boxer shorts.

ZZ Tops famous
song Sharp Dressed Ham comes to mind...  ;D

And believe it or not I did not have to put a $1K plus down payment to get any of it.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 09, 2012, 10:43:21 AM
And believe it or not I did not have to put a $1K plus down payment to get any of it.  ;)

One nice think about vaporware rigs is that they're not putting out spurs on 160M.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD4ELG on November 09, 2012, 04:40:38 PM
Stan I am jealous!  All I have is a DX Engineering hat.  No shirts, no jackets, nothing.  I have their rigs, I guess they don't want me looking shart.  :(


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 10, 2012, 05:05:45 AM
Stan I am jealous!

They come a calling just as fast as they can
Cuz DX is crazy 'bout a sharp dressed HAM

Stan K9IUQ  :)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 10, 2012, 08:29:03 AM
Since you can't but one yet - you can just "preorder" one - the subject line of this thread is misleading and incorrect.

If you have a preorder with deposit down and are part of the Limited Edition advance offering, the present expectation is Q1 2013 for delivery, with the Beta test units in the field as the Q4 2012 project focus. 

If you place a new order now (as of Nov 2012) you have several choices on payment - pay when the unit ships or if you really want to you can prepay - and you can call Flexradio and work out something (read the website).  On expected delivery the Flex-Radio website is quite clear "**Due to high demand, orders placed now have a target ship date of early 2nd quarter 2013**"

So you can't actually "buy one" now.

- Beta Limited Edition units are being placed with the Beta Team
- Pre-orders with deposits (Limited Edition offer) target as of Nov 2012 is Q1 2013
- Newly placed orders (post-Limited Edition offer) target ship is Q2 2013

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com (http://k9zw.wordpress.com)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 10, 2012, 12:11:27 PM
Since you can't but one yet - you can just "preorder" one - the subject line of this thread is misleading and incorrect.

73

Steve
K9ZW

I got enough SPIN from the politicians, why do I have to get it on eham too?...

If I want to read the Flexradio Advertisements I will go to the Flexradio website. Why must you put them here on eham on a discussion forum??

Or do you just wannna an excuse to advertise  your website?  ???

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 10, 2012, 02:26:51 PM
I'm curious why there's a quarter lag between the "limited edition" version and the next production run. In this day and age, any decent CM can easily ramp production much faster than that.

I'm beginning to think that Flex is trying to play the artificial scarcity game here in order to drive up demand.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 11, 2012, 06:10:44 AM
Just as predicted, Flex is already slipping the original availability dates which is not surprising at all since no one has seen a working FLex-6000 or any working software.   I think the Flex 'engineers' bit off a little more than they could chew on this project.  I would not be surprised if the dates slip even further.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 11, 2012, 11:41:47 AM
I'm curious why there's a quarter lag between the "limited edition" version and the next production run. In this day and age, any decent CM can easily ramp production much faster than that.

I'm beginning to think that Flex is trying to play the artificial scarcity game here in order to drive up demand.

Since you are curious I will attempt to explain. It costs money to ramp up production (assuming you actually have a working product). Ask yourself this: Does Flexradio act they have extra cash? OK, they got some extra $$$ from those in the "Flexradio Bubble" (Thank you Bill Maher  ;) ) putting huge down payments on a radio that only existed as a Flexradio promise.

I suggest there is nothing artificial about this game. Flexradio can not come thru with their original promise and like a well known recently defeated politician, has to spin, change the story and give excuses. Let us now call it the Blame Game.

This should not be a surprise to anyone who has followed Flexradio the last few years. They are merely repeating what they have always done in the past.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on November 11, 2012, 07:47:25 PM
Not that this will actually happen, but things like this can.  If Flex struggles to deliver 4Q and there is not even a working prototype early 1Q then people might start asking for their money back.  If Flex does not have money in reserve and hastily announced a new product that stunted old product sales, you could see them potentially going belly up and a lot of people not getting their deposits back.  These things are delicate, it just takes someone pulling the wrong brick from the bottom of the stack to make it topple.

Personally, I hope they deliver and stay alive and become something better!

What they took on software wise though was no small task!


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 12, 2012, 05:13:43 AM
If Flex does not have money in reserve and hastily announced a new product that stunted old product sales, you could see them potentially going belly up and a lot of people not getting their deposits back. 

This is exactly what could happen. I can not understand why Flexradio would announce a new product so far in advance and effectively diminish demand for their present products. The way things look now they should have waited until Dayton Hamfest 2013 to announce the 6000 series.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K0OD on November 12, 2012, 05:43:12 AM
The Kenwood TS-990 was officially announced in August 2011 after being the subject of rumors for several years. According to most on its Yahoo Group, the 990 is still a long way from showing up in U.S. stores.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K0OD on November 12, 2012, 05:58:27 AM
The very first post on the TS-990 Yahoo Group (August 28, 2011):

Quote
Kenwood JVC annouced today at the JARL Ham Fair in Tokyo Japan a successer to
the TS-950SDX. This new model is tenatively scheduled to be released in the
later half of 2012. Stay tuned for more details.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 12, 2012, 06:41:31 AM
The very first post on the TS-990 Yahoo Group (August 28, 2011):

Quote
Kenwood JVC annouced today at the JARL Ham Fair in Tokyo Japan a successer to
the TS-950SDX. This new model is tenatively scheduled to be released in the
later half of 2012. Stay tuned for more details.

Apples to Oranges.

Kenwood is not accepting advanced payments from customers for the TS-990 many months in advance of its expected release date to fund their company, unlike Flex Radio. 

Everyone realizes that release dates slip and expect it.   However, Flex is holding on to other people's money while the dates continue to slip.  Since the announcement of the Flex-6000, there has been a flood of used Flex-5000a available.  I am sure that has impacted Flex's 5000 a sales.  Flex has proven not to be very smart business wise in the past, and it seems to continue on.

Gene
 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 12, 2012, 08:13:38 AM
Kenwood is a much larger company than Flex with more divisions and more products. Flex essentially has three products (1500, 3000, 5000A) aside from their commercial offering, so they can't afford to cannibalize sales of existing products.

Kenwood is not going to cannibalize sales of the 590s by pre-announcing the 990 because the price differential is too high ($1500 versus a likely $7500), whereas the Flex-5000A and 6500 differ in price by only $1500.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 12, 2012, 08:48:35 AM
The very first post on the TS-990 Yahoo Group (August 28, 2011):

Kenwood has shown working models of the TS-990s at major hamfests.

As far as is known publicly, Flexradio does not have a working 6000 series Model to demonstrate at Hamfests.

Also unlike Flexradio, Kenwood is known for selling only finished products. Kenwood does not expect customers to be Beta Testers.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K0OD on November 12, 2012, 09:22:50 AM
Kenwood has a large dealer network they can count on for orders. No doubt their reps have been soliciting early orders. Flex has no dealers, at least in the the U.S.  

You ignore that Flex has added features to older Flex radios such as the wonderful and unique Tracking Notch Filter they added recently. My TS-850 remains just as it was in 1992, flakey display and all. 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 12, 2012, 09:43:20 AM
You ignore that Flex has added features to older Flex radios such as the wonderful and unique Tracking Notch Filter they added recently.

Multiple Tracking filters in hamradios have been around for a long time. The Flex 5 K was released in 2008 and just got the tracking notch filter recently.

What I will not ignore: In 2010 (2 years after the release of the Flex 5K) when I bought my Flex 5K, there was no notch filter manual or automatic that worked at all. No NB that worked. Spurs on 160/80 meters. The CW mode was unusable. No usable FM mode. No tones for 10 mtr FM repeaters. ETC and ETC.

Flexradio in the past has released unfinished Products. It takes them years to get even basic features to work properly.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K0OD on November 12, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
No other ham radio has anything like the Flex RF TNF as you well know. And it was added gratis and perfectly functioning long after the 5000 came out. What a nice gift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17ipMS8gAk&feature=related

This just goes on and on and on with you.... still bringing up features the radio didn't have three years ago and that were, even then, temporarily disabled in short-lived Betas.
Again, you know that!

Off to work...


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 12, 2012, 10:28:32 AM
Again, you know that!

Jeff, my Flexer Friend:

I no longer live in the "Flexradio Bubble", which is why I know things that you do not.

 ;) :)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 12, 2012, 10:41:33 AM
TNF may have been added gratis, but the point is that Flex had no notch capability at all for years until TNF was implemented.

This is the crux of Stan's point. Flex has a record of selling half-baked rigs that are missing features that bottom of the line competitor rigs have right out of the box, or the features just don't work properly (CW, etc.)

Given their track record, I'll be very surprised if Flex ships the Flex-6000 series without major functionality missing or inoperable in some way.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on November 12, 2012, 11:15:27 AM
Also, thank Stan for his relentless stance with Flex for fixing lots of the issues, all done with no reward to him.

Flex is no better than the other manufacturers out there.. It's just reality.

Flex ownership cycle

First exposure to cool looking hype
The purchase ( either the users is thrilled or dismayed depending on what they expected )
The dismayed try to make it work, usually leads to returning in 30 days or selling it.
The thrilled users play and have a lot of fun, because they are playing as much computer guru as they are radio guru..
The fun and lusters fades as the users gets back to focused radio operation
The radio becomes more work than fun
They either buy the hype on the upgrade for the next better rig or sell
The cycle repeats until the users moves on.

Yes, I still have mine, it's still useable for what I do.  I honestly have more fun operating the KX3, but I also like new exciting challenges.

The next gen of radios may begin to obsolete radios like the flex line because they'll have knobs, displays and robust computer interface, kind of the direction the KX3 is headed, but we will get more serious base stations.  The K4 might be such a radio when it arrives on the scene.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 12, 2012, 12:41:25 PM
The fun and lusters fades as the users gets back to focused radio operation
The radio becomes more work than fun

Well said and very true. It is interesting that regular SDR posters K9IUQ, KE5JJP, and W6UV all owned Flex 5K's, But no longer are Flex Owners. I could name at least 10 more calls that do not post here but read our posts and occasionally give me private emails.

Also, thank Stan for his relentless stance with Flex for fixing lots of the issues, all done with no reward to him.

Very few hams will say that publicly but I have heard it many times privately. Instead of going with the flow, keeping my mouth shut and not rocking the boat, I told the "Flex Emperor" he had no clothes. He also had warts, bad breath and a huge bugger hanging from the nose.

Yes, I took a different route, a path rarely traveled. I tried to make the Flexradio Company live up to their advertising.

The squeaking wheel always gets the grease. I was a Union Steward for 15 years in another life. I knew how to get the "Ball Rolling," and get things fixed. Most importantly, I knew how to win arguments. I squeaked and squeaked some more. I was relentless, especially after I was banned from the Flex Reflectors for posting publicly what many Flexers were thinking.

I was ridiculed and called many names here on eham. I got really nasty emails from some Flex Lovers,  almost all unsigned.

The only reward I ever wanted or needed was an occasional comment like you just gave me.
I took a $1200 loss when I sold my Flex 5K. I owned it for 11 months. It was the most expensive and disappointing experience in my 52 year ham career.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 15, 2012, 04:49:43 AM
Tim W4TME from FlexRadio has shared a link to for EDN Network journal's write up on the FLEX-6000 architecture:

http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code (http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code)

"Applied Imagination" in design - really gets a person enthused!

Be 100% clear that the capabilities will be improved update-by-update.

I had a blast with the "growing up" of the Flex-5000A in my shack - frustrations at times, especially when I didn't read the directions/notes - and a huge amount of fun as features were added, tweaked, corrections made, and the firmware & software upgraded.

Why "buy" a Flex-6700?  That "Applied Imagination" and radio room Fun about sums it up for me! 

If you have that "joie de vivre" that makes exploring the new and exciting a pleasure, the upcoming Flex-6700/6500 may just fit your ticket!

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com (http://k9zw.wordpress.com)
 



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 15, 2012, 07:45:28 AM
Tim W4TME from FlexRadio has shared a link to for EDN Network journal's write up on the FLEX-6000 architecture:

http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code (http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code)

"Applied Imagination" in design - really gets a person enthused!

Be 100% clear that the capabilities will be improved update-by-update.

I had a blast with the "growing up" of the Flex-5000A in my shack - frustrations at times, especially when I didn't read the directions/notes - and a huge amount of fun as features were added, tweaked, corrections made, and the firmware & software upgraded.

Why "buy" a Flex-6700?  That "Applied Imagination" and radio room Fun about sums it up for me!  

If you have that "joie de vivre" that makes exploring the new and exciting a pleasure, the upcoming Flex-6700/6500 may just fit your ticket!

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com (http://k9zw.wordpress.com)
 



Are you trying for the 2013 Flex Goodwill Ambassador award?  I hope Flex is compensating you well for all of your advertising you do for them.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 15, 2012, 11:45:20 AM
I hope Flex is compensating you well for all of your advertising you do for them.
Gene

They have never compensated me and I have given them more free advertising than 10 of him..

 ;) :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 15, 2012, 11:48:57 AM
"Applied Imagination" in design - really gets a person enthused!

yeah Man, it is right up there with "Game Changer" or "SmartSDR".....

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 15, 2012, 11:54:00 AM
Be 100% clear that the capabilities will be improved update-by-update.

You got that right. Update is their middle name. It took em only 4 years to get PSDR updated to have the same working features as any knobbed radio.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 15, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
"Applied Imagination" in design - really gets a person enthused!

yeah Man, it is right up there with "Game Changer" or "SmartSDR".....

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ

"Applied Imagination"... Ha Ha!  You need a lot of "Applied Imagination" when foolishly ordering a Flex-6000 sight unseen, especially without any working hardware or software for demo.  

I wonder how much "Applied Imagination" those guys will need well into 2013 before their signature series Flex-6000 radios are delivered?  And how much "Applied Imagination" will be required until Flex delivers on its new set of 'promises' years down the road?   :D :D :D

Gene



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 15, 2012, 01:57:27 PM
Obligatory car analogy:

v1.0 The engine runs, but roughly, and tends to stall while driving requiring the driver to pull over and restart it. The brakes are functional, but there's a 3-5 second lag from the time the pedal is pressed until the brakes engage. There's a button on the dashboard for air conditioning, but it doesn't work. The windshield wipers smear water around on the glass without removing it. Smog emissions are well above acceptable limits. Driver must have IQ >150 to successfully operate vehicle without stuttering.

v1.1 Engine not quite as rough, but still stalls regularly. No improvement in brake function. A/C button engages the heater. Company promises FW fix for smog emissions problem ("real soon now"). Rabid enthusiasts frequent auto discussion boards claiming the car is perfect in every way. Wipers cease to function.

v1.2 Company works for six months on new "update" and the result is a new paint job. Enthusiasts widely praise update. Brakes still not working properly. A/C button now engages A/C, but only functions when temperature is less than 75 degrees. Emissions still above limits, but FW fix is still due any day now.

v1.3 Company improves brake function so that lag is almost (but not quite) gone. Adds side window wipers (but windshield wipers still not working 100%). Fix for emissions problem identified, but requires returning car to factory for hardware update. Company announces next generation product and rabid fans have orgasm.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K0IZ on November 15, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
Hey, Stan.  A former Union Steward!  I used to be in management at a union company, and for the benefit of those without that experience, let me tell you that I always found Union Stewards to be persistent.  And to get re-elected, represented their Brothers/Sisters well.  So now I'm not surprised by your diligence. 

I don't have a Flex (currently a K3 owner, running remote), but do enjoy the give and take on technology and mfg strategies.

John.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 15, 2012, 06:36:20 PM
Hey, Stan.  A former Union Steward!  I used to be in management at a union company, and for the benefit of those without that experience, let me tell you that I always found Union Stewards to be persistent.  And to get re-elected, represented their Brothers/Sisters well.  So now I'm not surprised by your diligence.  
John.

Hey John
Being a Union Steward was an eye opener. Being an elective position meant I had to do a decent job or get defeated by someone better. One thing I learned is most (Union) Brothers wanted the Steward to do the fighting and arguing  for them. Most Union friends I dealt with did not want to want to rock the boat or squeak the wheel.

Ultimately I gave it up after 15 years. I never was defeated, I just got tired of the constant bickering and lack of support from the Union members who only went to a Union meeting when there was a contract pending.  ;)

FWIW I had almost as many management friends (off work) as Union friends. I am retired now but still love a good discussion.  ;)

I see you live in in S. CO. I lived in Florence, CO from about 1969-1973. I worked at the Johns Manville drywall factory as a Mechanic. The Teamsters were the Union, however I was not active in that union as a Steward but was a member.

I was very active as W0ODG back then.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 15, 2012, 06:59:27 PM
Company announces next generation product and rabid fans have orgasm.

Jerry, your sense of humor has gotten much better since you dumped your Flex 5K...

Still Laffing,

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 16, 2012, 03:38:59 AM
Tim W4TME from FlexRadio has shared a link to for EDN Network journal's write up on the FLEX-6000 architecture:

http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code (http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4401014/Social-media-meets-morse-code)


It is funny to read the comments section of the article.  Summary of the article is that it is just another marketing advertisement for Flex Radio.  Not much substance, kind of like the current state of the non-working mock-ups of the Flex-6000 that Flex has been showing at the Hamfests.   :D

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 16, 2012, 05:16:50 AM
The thing that gets me is when the Flex Radio guys start talking about how they have added features and functionality to PowerSDR for free.  Now they say that they are going to charge for it.  What they don't tell you is the most of the 'features' and 'functionality' are essential things that were broken or missing and they finally got around to adding them.  Things like CW functionality that still does not work quite right or things like bad ALC overshoot which damaged a lot of user's amps.  Flex Radio thanks for being so generous to add the 'features', which should have been there in the first place, for free!  ::)

Flex Radio users == continual Beta testers.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD5GWY on November 16, 2012, 06:08:37 PM
One slight correction, Flex Radio won't be charging for PowerSDR. But, for
their new software for the 6000 Series radios, SmartSDR........which as far as I know
does not exist yet!
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 16, 2012, 06:38:22 PM
SmartSDR........which as far as I know does not exist yet!

Which leads one to wonder how can it be a "Game Changer" if it does not exist?

Ah, I would guess that is where "Applied Imagination" comes into the picture...  ;)

Yep that:  "really gets a (Flexer) person enthused!"   ::)    ::)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N4WVE on November 23, 2012, 03:47:04 PM
Why not? If you enjoy being on the leading edge of technology or learning a new way of operating HF, and can afford it, why not do it? I have a Flex 3000 that works flawlessly. I use a string of outboard audio gear with it without a hitch. After researching many of these posts, I doubt some of the posters even own an SDR radio. If you purchase a radio, and can't figure out how it works, or don't have enough computer horsepower, thenthat is no one else's fault. If you don'like Flex then don'buy buy one, but PLEASE don't keep crying about it. ;D


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD5GWY on November 23, 2012, 04:59:20 PM
You're new here aren't you? ;D
If you read far enough back, everyone of the negative posts in
this thread was written by current AND former Flex Radio owners.
I own a Flex 1500 and have no gripes about it. It works quite well
as a qrp rig. I also plan to add a Flex 3000 one day too.
But, I still like radios with knobs and have several of those around.
My current favorite is a Yaesu FT-1000MP MKV. Next after that is
a TenTec Jupiter. (and some much older rigs as well)
The receiver in all three rigs are very close in performance in my
opinion. The Yaesu beats the other two out because it has two, independent
receivers in it. And also has 200watts output. The audio from it is very nice
and clear. Same for the other two. But, "I think" the Yaesu beats the other
two radios out slightly in sensitivity. (doing a comparison between them using
the same antenna and switching out between all three radios.)
But, as far as I know, everyone that is complaining here has had or even still has,
Flex radios and understands the problems associated with them.
 I think that the best thing to do is to ignore the posts from those that post negative
 comments about the Flex radios if it bothers you.
Personally, I like mine.
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N4WVE on November 23, 2012, 05:08:35 PM
Excellent comments, and good point, James! We should all help make it better! I have been a ham for 20+ years and owned all sorts of rigs. I know Yaesu is working on a SDR transceiver, and I believe this is our future. I also use a RadioJet SWL radio which is great. I will certainly look for the positive, A's I have no time for the negative! :)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WB8LBZ on November 24, 2012, 11:04:01 PM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top of page 4,
comment by Jim K9ZW on the current order status
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD

Page 5
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by W6UV
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Jim K9ZW
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
comment by NI0Z
comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP

Page 6
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by James WD5GWY
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Greg N4WVE
negative comment by James WD5GWY
comment by Greg N4WVE

sub total of comments on 3 pages
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ 11 times
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP 6 times
negative comment by James WD5GWY 2 times
negative comment by NI0Z 1 time
negative comment by W6UV 1 time
comment by NI0Z 1 time (off topic)
comment by Stan K9IUQ 1 time (off topic)
comment by W6UV 2 times
comment by Greg N4WVE 2 times
comment by Jim K9ZW 2 times
comment by K0OD 4 times

from my previous post on page 2 ---
When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money.

In 3 months this ratio should still be close.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ

P.S. It is still my money.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 25, 2012, 04:40:46 AM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top of page 4,
comment by Jim K9ZW on the current order status
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD

Page 5
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by W6UV
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Jim K9ZW
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
comment by NI0Z
comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP

Page 6
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by James WD5GWY
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Greg N4WVE
negative comment by James WD5GWY
comment by Greg N4WVE

sub total of comments on 3 pages
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ 11 times
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP 6 times
negative comment by James WD5GWY 2 times
negative comment by NI0Z 1 time
negative comment by W6UV 1 time
comment by NI0Z 1 time (off topic)
comment by Stan K9IUQ 1 time (off topic)
comment by W6UV 2 times
comment by Greg N4WVE 2 times
comment by Jim K9ZW 2 times
comment by K0OD 4 times

from my previous post on page 2 ---
When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money.

In 3 months this ratio should still be close.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ

P.S. It is still my money.


The responses that you have determined to be negative are only negative to you because they do not jive with your rose colored fanboy like view of Flex Radio.   If you do not need justification for spending 'your money', then you sure spend a lot of time counting posts by each person in this thread and making a determination on whether you believe they are negative (in your view) or not!

Saying "its my money" is a justification itself.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: WD5GWY on November 25, 2012, 10:51:19 AM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top of page 4,
comment by Jim K9ZW on the current order status
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD

Page 5
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by W6UV
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Jim K9ZW
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
comment by NI0Z
comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP

Page 6
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by James WD5GWY
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Greg N4WVE
negative comment by James WD5GWY
comment by Greg N4WVE

sub total of comments on 3 pages
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ 11 times
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP 6 times
negative comment by James WD5GWY 2 times
negative comment by NI0Z 1 time
negative comment by W6UV 1 time
comment by NI0Z 1 time (off topic)
comment by Stan K9IUQ 1 time (off topic)
comment by W6UV 2 times
comment by Greg N4WVE 2 times
comment by Jim K9ZW 2 times
comment by K0OD 4 times

from my previous post on page 2 ---
When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money.

In 3 months this ratio should still be close.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ

P.S. It is still my money.

Negative comment? Stating that there was no working example of SmartSDR
is not negative. I have been to several hamfests where Flex Radio has been
in attendance and not one has had a WORKING version of SmartSDR on display,
only a mockup. And no working hardware hooked up either.
 While that may seem like a negative comment to you, it IS the truth. When they
are asked (and I have asked them several times) when they might have a working
example of the hardware and software, their answers have been on the evasive
side. The only thing they have said is the 6000 Series (and the Signature Series radios
in particular) "should" ship in Q4 2012. Well, guess what? That has now slipped to
Q1 2013 for the Signature Series radios and general shipping to other buyers is slated for Q2 2013. That is direct from Tim Ellison of Flex Radio.  That's up to 6 months later than their original stated shipping time frame for those that pre-order/ordered the radios.
  I agree, it is your money. And it is MY money too. I almost put a deposit down on a 6500 Signature Series radio. I really do want one and the specs look really good to me. BUT, without
nothing more than looking at MOCKUP software and hardware, that is a bit more than I like to
tie up(the $1,200 deposit for the 6500). I'll wait until the actual hardware and software is out and I can SEE a WORKING example of both. I do not mind paying an additional $300 if it turns out that the 6500 is really what they claim it will be. I sincerely hope the radios and the software live up
to Flex Radios claims.
  For right now, I have my Flex 1500 to take care of my SDR needs. And if I need/want another
SDR rig, I'll get a 3000 or 5000.  I suspect that once the 6000 Series actually ship, those will drop in price on the used market. IF the 6000 Series and SmartSDR, live up to the hype by Flex Radio.
 It also depends on what features and functionality SmartSDR initially ships with. Especially since
later buyers, (like I hope to be) will have to shell out more money for software Upgrades ( bug fixes are supposed to be free).
  So, in a way yes, you might be right that there are a lot of complaints about Flex Radios.
And it will certainly never go away. Nor will it go away for a lot of other brands of radios.
That is just the nature of the beast. Do like I suggested to another poster and IGNORE the
posts you consider negative.  That's easy enough to do. There is still a lot of useful information
here and on other websites concerning SDR and Flex Radios in general. And there is always the
Yahoo groups as well. Lot of good info there.
Good luck and I hope you get your new 6000 Series radio soon. Please post a review here when
you get it. And be ready for more negative comments. That is just a part of a forum like this.
james
WD5GWY
 
   


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 25, 2012, 02:13:08 PM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top of page 4,
comment by blah blah blah.................................

sub total of comments on 3 pages
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ 11 times

 no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money.

Thank you for your fine work of counting comments. I am proud to see K9IUQ at the top of your list.  :D

The reason there are so many negative comments is BECAUSE there are and have been MANY negative truths about the Flexradio Company and their products. If they made better Products/Software there would be less negative comments. That is the way things work in the real world. If however you live in the "Flexradio Bubble" and get all your news from Flexradio reflectors you will see little negativity. This is because "Tim the Bulldog" takes a dim view of posting the Truth on the Flex Reflectors. He bans all those who tell the actual truth from posting.  ;)

So, You have a choice. Read about Flexradio on their Reflectors and get extremely biased information or get the truth here on the SDR forum on eham. A smart ham who wants to be informed would read both.  ;)

Here is a Truth - -  Special for you: No One here cares what radio you spend your $$ on. Justified or Un-Justified.

However we do care about telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Flexradio.

Stan K9IUQ


 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 25, 2012, 02:21:35 PM
While that may seem like a negative comment to you, it IS the truth.

When they are asked (and I have asked them several times) when they might have a working
example of the hardware and software, their answers have been on the evasive
side.
james
WD5GWY

Thanks james, for a truly interesting Post and informative view from a Flexer.

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 25, 2012, 02:39:58 PM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top ......

P.S. It is still my money.


Use the Ignore Button to improve your Signal-to-Noise Ratio - cuts the QRM from the chronically unhappy.

I enjoy the tranquility "This user is currently ignored" the filter provides. 

You are right that how you spend your Amateur Radio money is your personal choice. 

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  With Varying Frequency - http://k9zw.wordpress.com (http://k9zw.wordpress.com)


 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 25, 2012, 05:30:53 PM

Use the Ignore Button to improve your Signal-to-Noise Ratio
I enjoy the tranquility "This user is currently ignored" the filter provides.  

Why come here at all? Using the ignore button only adds to your Flexradio ignorance.
Seeking opinions that only agree with you does not keep you informed. Ask Mitt Romney if that worked for him....  :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on November 26, 2012, 06:40:58 AM

There would more comments if it weren't for all the griping.
Starting at the top of page 4,
comment by Jim K9ZW on the current order status
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by K0OD

Page 5
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by W6UV
negative comment by NI0Z
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Jim K9ZW
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
comment by W6UV
comment by NI0Z
comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP

Page 6
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP
negative comment by James WD5GWY
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ
comment by Greg N4WVE
negative comment by James WD5GWY
comment by Greg N4WVE

sub total of comments on 3 pages
negative comment by Stan K9IUQ 11 times
negative comment by Gene KE5JPP 6 times
negative comment by James WD5GWY 2 times
negative comment by NI0Z 1 time
negative comment by W6UV 1 time
comment by NI0Z 1 time (off topic)
comment by Stan K9IUQ 1 time (off topic)
comment by W6UV 2 times
comment by Greg N4WVE 2 times
comment by Jim K9ZW 2 times
comment by K0OD 4 times

from my previous post on page 2 ---
When the 3000 came out I bought one, no justification required. When the 6700/6500 announcement was made I decided I wanted one. I put my order in on the first August and there was no justification needed. It is my money.

In 3 months this ratio should still be close.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ

P.S. It is still my money.


I own and still use my Flex 5000A, so I have earned a right to comment on how I feel about the flex radios.  So have many others here.  So if there is negativity, then Flex Radio systems has to own and address it, not its users.

The most obvious question I have is this, if users past and Present feel negatively about Flex Radio Systems and products, why shouldn't they be able to express their feelings here?

I have to laugh also while I am commenting, I recall people posting an applied imagination and game changer posts here, and I can't help but laugh at this because the applied imagination to me is more a statement about selling a radio that doesn't yet exist in any form of working state.  That would also be a game changer as well, selling imagination!  Oh wait, I guess fiction writers sell imagination as well, but at least there is a physical book you can go and buy and actually exists!  Yup, definitely a game changer!

All that said, I believe some day we will see the beginnings of a working radio.  They really should have had the software in a alpha or beta status before they ever made an announcement though.  Software like this has a proven track record of being difficult to develop, leave alone thinking it can be written in just three months.  Just look at how long it's taken power SDR to become stable and decent.

It will be December soon, last month of Q4 2012, no prototype on display yet.  Why shouldn't there be skeptics?   If your looking for the fan club it's definitely not located here, sorry about that chap!  The conversations tend to be more reality based here and people can find it abrasive, so I sympathize how bad realty might feel for the true fans when they come and read stuff here.

It's ok, just send flex some more money, they will comfort you while they slowly cobble the new radios together.  Maybe they can get the Receiver software written first and offer those to the folks that have made down payments.

So many better ways they could have approached all this!



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: N0YXB on November 26, 2012, 08:22:56 AM

Use the Ignore Button to improve your Signal-to-Noise Ratio
I enjoy the tranquility "This user is currently ignored" the filter provides.  

Why come here at all? Using the ignore button only adds to your Flexradio ignorance.
Seeking opinions that only agree with you does not keep you informed. Ask Mitt Romney if that worked for him....  :D :D :D


Indeed.  And while you are ignoring all those opinions you don't want to hear, take the time to look up the pitfalls of "groupthink", something that one does not have to worry about here unless they are ignoring every opinion they don't like. 
 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 26, 2012, 08:31:57 AM
Why shouldn't there be skeptics?   If your looking for the fan club it's definitely not located here, sorry about that chap!  The conversations tend to be more reality based here and people can find it abrasive, so I sympathize how bad realty might feel for the true fans when they come and read stuff here.

I find it very interesting how many Flex fans evolve. You are an excellent example. You have changed your Flex views tremendously since you first came here. So have many others.

When you first buy a Flexradio everything is wonderful. You believe all those rosy advertisements and happy posts on the Flex Reflector. After a while reality sets in and that warm Flex feeling changes.  ;)

Almost all the posters here have owned a Flexradio. The newbie Flexers invariably find it offensive that anyone one would say something derogatory about their beloved Flexradio. They find it hard to believe that, indeed, the Flexradios have MANY faults that are never discussed freely on Flexradio sponsored forums.

Stan K9IUQ

 


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 26, 2012, 08:21:36 PM

Use the Ignore Button to improve your Signal-to-Noise Ratio
I enjoy the tranquility "This user is currently ignored" the filter provides.  

Why come here at all? Using the ignore button only adds to your Flexradio ignorance.
Seeking opinions that only agree with you does not keep you informed. Ask Mitt Romney if that worked for him....  :D :D :D


Indeed.  And while you are ignoring all those opinions you don't want to hear, take the time to look up the pitfalls of "groupthink", something that one does not have to worry about here unless they are ignoring every opinion they don't like.  
 


Isn't it groupthink when the ultra-negative trolls rant on without facts, just negative predictions?

In the end it is my money and my choice, and not anything subject to their baseless disapproval.

Seeing the dross included when you quote the negativism ringleader, with its divisive reach to politics (another completely off-topic pejorative reference intended as a distraction), putting these doomsayers on "Ignore" is additive to any actual discussion.

Why will I buy a Flex-6700?  Because I value the potential, have been happy with my Flex-5000A experience, and I enjoy a chance to work with new products.

Does it mean that anyone else's negative opinions are invalid?  No - they are valid for them.  Their opinions just don't apply for me - I have my own, thank you.

I really like this hobby, the people, and getting radio time.  I see how the Flex-6700 will expand my opportunities and let me dabble in the latest thing.  

And that is good enough reason to the person who needs to be happy - me!

Filtering out the mindless naysaying is avoiding the groupthink you worry about - the baseless rants about a product not even released are not contributory to conversation.  

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/)

Flex-6000 Series Postings: (These are my opinions folks, and do enjoy thinking about what this new radio offers me as a ham)

Flex-6000 Series – Newsletters, Armchair Speculators and My Impressions
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/flex-6000-series-newsletters-armchair-speculators-and-my-impressions/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/flex-6000-series-newsletters-armchair-speculators-and-my-impressions/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Thin Client Impact
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-thin-client-impact/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-thin-client-impact/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Ethernet Impact
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-ethernet-impact/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-ethernet-impact/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Slices Impact
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-slices-impact/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-slices-impact/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Diversity Reception Impact
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-diversity-reception-impact/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-diversity-reception-impact/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Net Ready Impact
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-net-ready-impact/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-net-ready-impact/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – The Down Side
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-the-down-side/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-the-down-side/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Deep (and Total) Impact – Predictions
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-deep-and-total-impact-predictions/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-deep-and-total-impact-predictions/)

Flex-6700 Fantasies – “Dreaming What Might Be!” Series – Lessons Learned and Series Wrap Up  
http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-lessons-learned-and-series-wrap-up/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series-lessons-learned-and-series-wrap-up/)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 26, 2012, 09:48:28 PM
Why will I buy a Flex-6700?  Because I value the potential

The potential is definitely there, the question is whether Flex Radio can execute on that potential. Their track record with the 5000A leaves something to be desired, and if it's any indication of things to come, then early buyers of the 6000 series will be in for a real roller coaster ride. I hope you all have back-up rigs..

I would have much more respect for Flex Radio if they had announced the Flex-6000 series like Apple announces a new product: show working hardware/software, and, by the way, you can buy it next week. Instead, Flex choose to announce the product almost a year before any working hardware was available. Not only that, but they started taking orders requiring a substantial deposit months in advance.

It's now late in Q4 and no one outside of Flex (and presumably any field testers covered by NDA) has seen working hardware or software.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 27, 2012, 03:02:29 AM

Filtering out the mindless naysaying is avoiding the groupthink you worry about - the baseless rants about a product not even released are not contributory to conversation.  


As opposed to what?  Baseless speculation, 'fantasies' and 'dreams' such as yours about a product that does not exist in working form yet?  If you base your 'fantasies' and 'dreams' on the track record of Flex Radio, then you are going to be terribly disappointed. 

I really have to wonder about someone who spends so much time and effort writing about his 'fantasies' and 'dreams' for a Ham radio product.  ::)

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 27, 2012, 04:23:59 AM
Flex-6700 Fantasies

Oh my Goodness. 12 links to your website in one post. This may set a record for self promotion. eham needs to charge you advertising rates for your posts.

At least you got something right. - -     Flex-6700 Fantasies which really says it all about the 6700.  :D  :D


I really have to wonder about someone who spends so much time and effort writing about his 'fantasies' and 'dreams' for a Ham radio product.  ::)

At this point, all a Flexer can do is Fantasize and Dream about the 6700. There are no other options.   :D  :D  :D

the baseless rants about a product not even released are not contributory to conversation.  

Why then must you post links to your baseless Flexradio promoting rants about a product not even released?????

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 27, 2012, 06:17:42 AM
Why will I buy a Flex-6700?  Because I value the potential

The potential is definitely there, the question is whether Flex Radio can execute on that potential. Their track record with the 5000A leaves something to be desired, and if it's any indication of things to come, then early buyers of the 6000 series will be in for a real roller coaster ride. I hope you all have back-up rigs..

I would have much more respect for Flex Radio if they had announced the Flex-6000 series like Apple announces a new product: show working hardware/software, and, by the way, you can buy it next week. Instead, Flex choose to announce the product almost a year before any working hardware was available. Not only that, but they started taking orders requiring a substantial deposit months in advance.

It's now late in Q4 and no one outside of Flex (and presumably any field testers covered by NDA) has seen working hardware or software.

Track record is important, though not a limiting nor defining factor.  Flex Radio Systems has learned a huge amount about its Ham Radio customers, and new product introductions & upgrades along the Flex-5000 development process. 

Have I been happy with my Flex-5000A (an early one BTW)?  Increasingly so as the software and firmware have improved. 

It is naiive, and bluntly being negative just to be negative, to predict that those lessons learned would not be part & parcel of the Flex-6000 Signature Series roll-out.  Given the huge step forward the new series has adopted for its hardware it is churlish & foundationless to rant on predicting Flex Radio Systems hadn't absorbed the software & ham community relations learning as well.

If a ham doesn't like Flex Radio Systems, feels their past Flex Radio experience wasn't positive, isn't interested in SDR radios, doesn't/can't afford the investment of a new radio, or simply prefers some other radio, hey "bully for them" - it is their shack, isn't it? 

Their decision and their opinions matter, but they never define reality for others.  In my case I have had a huge amount of fun with my Flex-5000A, consider the 5000A a tremendous value, and as I have written at length I do see a huge step forward for my hobby experience in the Flex-6000 series when it comes out.

In my ROI (Return on Investment) calculations I am willing to front a refundable deposit to get an early slot with some added perks.  I've done the same on numerous purchases in my life - I love things like Kickstarter where I can support a project from an early stage. And when it is ready, it is ready (I need to make sure my checkbook is ready then too!).

If instant gratification and "instant perfect" is the most important part of a new radio to a person, then they should wait until the radio series is out and proven.  That is their ROI evaluation to avoid their personally experiencing the leading/bleeding edge.

Their choice and I would fully agree with anyone making the choice to "wait and see" or "not for me."  Where I disagree to the core is with the unfounded speculative rantings of negative folk who have made a hobby of being “forum trolls” all about a future product they openly declare they have no intent in purchasing. 

The naysayers should go have fun with whatever actually does trip their trigger - life is too short waste reading their moaning as they play some sort of Don Quixote jousting at figments of their imaginations about products rollouts in the future. 

73

Steve
K9ZW

BLOG  http://k9zw.wordpress.com/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 27, 2012, 07:32:27 AM

The naysayers should go have fun with whatever actually does trip their trigger - life is too short waste reading their moaning as they play some sort of Don Quixote jousting at figments of their imaginations about products rollouts in the future.  


That is hilarious coming from someone who blogs his 'fantasies' and 'dreams' about a Ham radio product that has not even been demonstrated to work yet.   ::)

There will always be fools who buy into the Flex Radio marketing nonsense and empty promises.  Those that do are in for some hard lessons to come.  

You should go find somewhere else to advertise your blog if you are only looking for those sympathetic to Flex Radio.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 27, 2012, 08:37:32 AM
Their choice and I would fully agree with anyone making the choice to "wait and see" or "not for me."  Where I disagree to the core is with the unfounded speculative rantings of negative folk who have made a hobby of being “forum trolls” all about a future product they openly declare they have no intent in purchasing.

Unfounded? Nonsense! Most of the speculation regarding the 6000 series I've read on this forum is based on Flex's track record with their earlier products. Since we aren't mind readers with access to the inner workings of the minds of Flex management, their track record is all we have to go on. In my experience, a company's prior track record is a pretty good indicator of future actions.

Almost all of the "forum trolls" that you decry own or have owned Flex rigs, so any "negative" comments they make come from direct experience. I find that compelling.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on November 27, 2012, 08:39:25 AM

Track record is important, though not a limiting nor defining factor.  Flex Radio Systems has learned a huge amount about its Ham Radio customers, and new product introductions & upgrades along the Flex-5000 development process.  

Have I been happy with my Flex-5000A (an early one BTW)?  Increasingly so as the software and firmware have improved.  

It is naiive, and bluntly being negative just to be negative, to predict that those lessons learned would not be part & parcel of the Flex-6000 Signature Series roll-out.  Given the huge step forward the new series has adopted for its hardware it is churlish & foundationless to rant on predicting Flex Radio Systems hadn't absorbed the software & ham community relations learning as well.

If a ham doesn't like Flex Radio Systems, feels their past Flex Radio experience wasn't positive, isn't interested in SDR radios, doesn't/can't afford the investment of a new radio, or simply prefers some other radio, hey "bully for them" - it is their shack, isn't it?  

Their decision and their opinions matter, but they never define reality for others.  In my case I have had a huge amount of fun with my Flex-5000A, consider the 5000A a tremendous value, and as I have written at length I do see a huge step forward for my hobby experience in the Flex-6000 series when it comes out.

In my ROI (Return on Investment) calculations I am willing to front a refundable deposit to get an early slot with some added perks.  I've done the same on numerous purchases in my life - I love things like Kickstarter where I can support a project from an early stage. And when it is ready, it is ready (I need to make sure my checkbook is ready then too!).

If instant gratification and "instant perfect" is the most important part of a new radio to a person, then they should wait until the radio series is out and proven.  That is their ROI evaluation to avoid their personally experiencing the leading/bleeding edge.

Their choice and I would fully agree with anyone making the choice to "wait and see" or "not for me."  Where I disagree to the core is with the unfounded speculative rantings of negative folk who have made a hobby of being “forum trolls” all about a future product they openly declare they have no intent in purchasing.  

The naysayers should go have fun with whatever actually does trip their trigger - life is too short waste reading their moaning as they play some sort of Don Quixote jousting at figments of their imaginations about products rollouts in the future.  

73

Steve
K9ZW

BLOG  http://k9zw.wordpress.com/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/)


Public forums offer freedom of speech and offer the medium for people to express their views and opinions of all flavors.  Everyone here has equal rights to express their views regardless of how others interpret them, like them, or dislike them.

Again, Flex owns any perceived negativity you see here, they got paid for products they created, marketed and sold to masses of hams.  What you see here is the sum of how the people that use these forums experienced.  

The problem with cool products is that people defend them to the point of lying about them, which in turn gets more people to buy into them only to be disappointed when the product doesn't live up to the hype.  So in part, fanboys as we call them own the negativity here as well because they in part have misled other hams.  We won't go into why fanboys narcissistically draw others into this delusional web of deception to feed their need to feel superior in the purchase they made.  To be fare, part of it is due to the long schooling cycle it takes for new users to realize the emperor is actually more naked than clothed.

Reality based feedback is the best way to fly.  When you want to buy what you perceive is an expensive product it's best to read both the good and the bad before you buy.  Educated purchases usually go a lot smoother!

I knew what I was getting when I bought mine,  a computer based radio with several issues.  That's why I am neither super high or super low on Flex Radios.  Mine does what I expect and that's ok for now.  Lol, you can read all about my adventures on my website.. :)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 28, 2012, 11:58:39 AM

Reality based feedback is the best way to fly.  When you want to buy what you perceive is an expensive product it's best to read both the good and the bad before you buy.  Educated purchases usually go a lot smoother!

I knew what I was getting when I bought mine,  a computer based radio with several issues.  That's why I am neither super high or super low on Flex Radios.  Mine does what I expect and that's ok for now.  Lol, you can read all about my adventures on my website.. :)

You're spot on - personally experienced reality rules!  Numerous times I've been very surprised to find that "groupthink" whether "fanboy" or "troll" is lacking in substance.

The best airplane I ever owned had such a non-owner "troll factor" that the local CFI did everything to talk me out of it.  It was easily the most fun, safest, best all-around and fun (again - that plane was that fun) plane I've had.  To the "troll factor" credit it did help me be eyes open, made the buying in price lower, and actually increased my satisfaction when the airchair "bs" the trolls spewed was replaced with hours & hours of top notch flight time.  

Ditto on my Flex-5000A experience.  That one I could have helped a lot if I would read the notes first!  It has done everything I've asked it to do, has been reliable, and I have really enjoyed the new software/firmware when it has rolled out.  I've also taken care of some of the upgrade duties on a second Flex-5000A which is out on an Island in a friend's shack, which great success there too!

If I had listened to the naysayers I would have missed the great time I've had with the 5000.  I've limited on-air time so I've only made a bit over 5000 contacts on the Flex so far.

As for the Flex-6000 series, I think we agree that a person shoudl do the best to evalulate what is known as FACT so far, and decide it they have any interest - if they do they should decide if early adopter is where they want to be.  

Once the 6000 series is out it will be realistic to talk from EXPERIENCE whether it is good, great, rough, ready or whatever.  

As for the whine about deposits and perks for those willing to make deposits, it is Flex Radio Systems that gets to make those rules.  If you don't like the rules, don't play.  If you want to make them an offer for a different business arrangment for your own shack, go for it!  BUT if a forum troll doesn't like it that some hams are willing to put down deposits, bluntly tough.  

Might really rattle the naysayers to know that some folk have deposits on more than one new Flex-6000 radio.  

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/)



Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 28, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Might really rattle the naysayers to know that some folk have deposits on more than one new Flex-6000 radio.  

Having witnessed about every stupid and foolish human behavior possible over the years, it does not surprise me at all.  There's a sucker born every minute...  ::)

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 28, 2012, 01:18:45 PM
Might really rattle the naysayers to know that some folk have deposits on more than one new Flex-6000 radio.  

Having witnessed about every stupid and foolish human behavior possible over the years, it does not surprise me at all.  There's a sucker born every minute...  ::)

Some people have more money than brains.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 28, 2012, 01:41:03 PM
Might really rattle the naysayers to know that some folk have deposits on more than one new Flex-6000 radio.  

You just rattled my funny bone so hard I can not stop laughing...

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard

Stan K9IUQ  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9ZW on November 29, 2012, 04:42:47 AM
Might really rattle the naysayers to know that some folk have deposits on more than one new Flex-6000 radio.  

Having witnessed about every stupid and foolish human behavior possible over the years, it does not surprise me at all.  There's a sucker born every minute...  ::)

Some people have more money than brains.

You all don't get it, do you? 

It is their money to do what they want with. 

You might not have the means or reason to order more than one yourself, you might not agree with doing it (though if you were working from rational facts you would first ask "why would they do this?" before commenting), but no the forum trolls want to deal from emotional negativism.

Not exploring "why" is not the sign of "brains" - and the endless baseless pejoratives certainly make sure that success & the positive won't be heard here. 

Dealing from human interest, there are apparently reasons to order more than one - and also the reasons to preorder one.  Would seem anyone actually interested in the Flex-6000 development would want to understand the reasons why, rather than name calling and laying judgement. 

It is why you don't see the developers, the active and the visionaries here.  This little clique of eHam Forum Trolls has soiled the landscape, and makes every effort to keep it soiled.  Has to be a pretty shallow existence.

On to more positive things - when the Flex-6000 pre-orders ship I am really looking forward to doing an A/B side-by-side comparison with my Flex-5000A.  Should be a lot of fun!

73

Steve
K9ZW

blog http://k9zw.wordpress.com/ (http://k9zw.wordpress.com/)


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 29, 2012, 06:05:02 AM

You all don't get it, do you?  

It is their money to do what they want with.  

You might not have the means or reason to order more than one yourself, you might not agree with doing it (though if you were working from rational facts you would first ask "why would they do this?" before commenting), but no the forum trolls want to deal from emotional negativism.


You are the one who does not quite get it and it is getting to the point where you are making yourself look quite foolish.  We could care less what they do with their money.  It is not about the dissenters not having the means to buy a Flex 6000 - I have spent almost twice the full cost of a Flex 6700 on a piece of equipment recently for my own personal hobby use. If someone is foolish enough to send Flex money for a product that has not yet been demonstrated to work and is based on a promise made by the Flex Radio marketing department, then that is their problem (especially after knowing about Flex Radio's history of broken and half-fulfilled promises.)  Your problem is that you only want to hear from those who agree with you and have drunk the Flex Kool Aide.  You can always do that by subscribing to the Flex Radio mailing list where you will find plenty of Flex Radio fans to play nice with - that is all they allow on the Flex Radio mailing list.  If you are not a Flex Fanboy and post questions and concerns on that list that are not complementary to Flex Radio, you will be moderated or removed from the list.   But to come to eHam and expect the 'same think' that exists on the Flex list, well, that is not going to make you happy.  Sorry.

The arguing by both sides on the pros and cons of Flex Radio is what helps the undecided make a purchasing decision.  If you had your way, people would only hear about your rose colored 'dreams' and 'fantasies' about a Flex radio project (which is disturbing enough in itself.)  Hearing both sides, pro and con, is one of the tools an intelligent person uses to make a decision.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 29, 2012, 08:15:49 AM
the endless baseless pejoratives certainly make sure that success & the positive won't be heard here.  

The problem of course is there is NO Flexradio 6700. It can not be a success if no one has one. I really have been unable to figure out what is Positive about giving someone $1000 plus (and no interest on the $$) to play around with for 7 months and counting. Flexradio's past track record of delivering promises (well known to anyone with Google) does not encourage optimism that it is going to be released anytime soon. A buyer can be assured that when it is released (if it conforms to past Flexradio History) it will be years before it gets out of Beta stage aka Bug Stage... I am sorry that all this sounds negative but it is the truth..

It is why you don't see the developers, the active and the visionaries here.

They do not come here because they do not want to answer honest criticism. Especially in a public forum.  

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: W6UV on November 29, 2012, 10:54:17 AM
It is why you don't see the developers, the active and the visionaries here.

They do not come here because they do not want to answer honest criticism. Especially in a public forum.  

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Brian Lloyd? He used to be the #1 Flex evangelist around here, but I haven't seen any posts from him in a long time.


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 29, 2012, 11:32:45 AM
It is why you don't see the developers, the active and the visionaries here.

They do not come here because they do not want to answer honest criticism. Especially in a public forum.  

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Brian Lloyd? He used to be the #1 Flex evangelist around here, but I haven't seen any posts from him in a long time.

He moved back over to the Flex mailing list and he regularly posts his Flex Radio wisdom over there for all Flex Fanboys to benefit.  It is more Flex friendly over there.

Gene


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: K9IUQ on November 29, 2012, 11:33:54 AM
Speaking of which, whatever happened to Brian Lloyd? He used to be the #1 Flex evangelist around here, but I haven't seen any posts from him in a long time.

I suspect Brian got disillusioned after reading the truth about Flexradio. Defending and promoting Flexradio against honest criticism on eham is a difficult job. He quit eham to enjoy an much easier life on the Flex Reflectors.  ;)

I miss Brian. Unlike the recent crop of Flex Fanboys on eham, Brian was articulate and intelligent. He was much more interesting to debate than the "put him on ignore" and ignore the Facts  "FantasyFool Flexradio Dream-boys"..  I wish he would come back to eham.

Stan K9IUQ   


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: NI0Z on November 29, 2012, 12:16:25 PM
And after 8 pages I have not found a compelling argument to preorder a flex 6k series radio. I don't live in a fantasy world either so those replies did nothing for me.

Still not even a real radio.

Flex might need to lookout or someone else might just beat them to the punch! Looks like as a Reciever the QS1R is already there.

So much for the game changer and applied imagination.  What a joke the announcement is turning out to be.  Glad I didn't have any money involved!


Title: RE: Seriously - Why buy a Flex 6700?
Post by: KE5JPP on November 29, 2012, 12:26:28 PM
And after 8 pages I have not found a compelling argument to preorder a flex 6k series radio. I don't live in a fantasy world either so those replies did nothing for me.

Still not even a real radio.


Other than the deluded Flex Fanboys, we all pretty much knew that a working Flex 6000 series would not appear in Q4 2012.  They have already started the inevitable time slip.

Once the Flex 6000 series actually comes out and the first reviews appear, I expect we will be into late 2013.   Give it another year for them to work out the inevitable show stopper bugs and some time more after that to fill in all the missing 'features'.  That would be the point to look at it and evaluate whether it is worth the price and the wait and whether is actually fulfills the 'game changer ahead' marketing nonsense from Flex.  I would not be surprised if there are other rigs available by then with similar features for half the price of the Flex.

Gene