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eHam Forums => DXing => Topic started by: N6PSE on October 28, 2012, 12:52:50 PM



Title: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: N6PSE on October 28, 2012, 12:52:50 PM
The topic this week concerns the recent Z60K and this weekend’s Z60WW operations from Kosovo.

Kosovo does not currently meet the ARRL DXCC program’s criteria to be a unique entity. Do you find it odd that some members of the amateur radio community are operating from Kosovo with a set of call signs that were essentially made up and have not been assigned by the ITU for use by Kosovo or any other country? Do you find it odd that a leading representative of the IARU is part of this activity?

My response: I am in favor of Kosovo gaining full & complete independence and I hope that it soon meets the current criteria to join the DXCC program as an entity unto itself. I recognize that using the YU8 prefix is offensive to some Kosovar amateurs.

My understanding of the Z60K/Z60WW calls currently being used is that these calls were essentially “made up” and have not been formally assigned by the ITU which is the governing body to assign such prefixes. This appears to me to be flagrant rule breaking of ITU rules and procedures?  Am I missing something here?

I realize this topic can be controversial and polarizing, let’s remember to keep our responses civil and in good ham-spirit.
What are your thoughts?


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: NU4B on October 28, 2012, 02:36:47 PM
Isn't there at least some precedence for this? For instance "1A" is not an assigned prefix, but it seems to be accepted by the amateur community as the prefix for SMOM. Also, in the past wasn't M1 used for San Marino? Maybe there are some differences I don't understand about those which would be interesting to know.

It seems to me that in this case the ITU is between a rock and a hard place. And maybe the ARRL. Kosovo is essentially an independent country. I could be wrong, but at this point Serbia has no control over the government there. The country is recognized by many countries (and not recognized by many). But the question should be whether a country has an independent government and is it recognized as an independent country.

The problem with the ARRL rules is that it is relying on an organization (the UN) that allows politics to get in the way of reality. Instead of a set of unwavering set of requirements to meet for admission to the UN, one or two SC members can block admission for political reasons. (I'm not commenting on the justification of the political reasons, only that they are a distortion.) And so the ITU follows.

A SC member can block this from now until eternity, but that doesn't change the fact that (in this case Kosovo) is an independent country. That would mean they can't have a "legally" (in the eyes of the ITU) identified radio/television communication system. It really doesn't make sense. The ITU should have the independence to assign a call block if certain conditions that reflect what's actually happening are met.

Even though the ARRL is basically sticking its head in the sand and pretending Kosovo doesn't exist (for DXCC purposes), I've always said the rules are the rules. Until the rules are changed to reflect reality (however they would do that), no Z6.

Hopefully at some point Serbia and Kosovo will reach an agreement in the near future and everybody can move on. In the meantime radio communications are going to to occur. At least there is a governing body that has jurisdiction over their population and issuing licenses and there is not complete chaos - even though its not an official prefix, as I said before , there is precedence.


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: KY6R on October 28, 2012, 03:37:55 PM
If a new one is added because it meets all of the DXCC criteria, then I'm all for it.

I despise the entities that somehow got on the list due to mega egos, political pressure, and "gaming the system".

Why? Because that cheapens the program.

rich


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: K3NRX on October 28, 2012, 03:40:33 PM
There is a simple solution to the ifs, ands, buts, and whats that there may be with this....If you don't see it on the DXCC list, don't work it!....That's what I plan on doing....Until there is official word it becomes a DXCC entity, Kosovo will be an after thought that I am not going to lose sleep over.....Working something that isn't offical or doesn't count for anything yet is a waste of time and energy.....Just one operator's opinion.........

V
KA3NRX



Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: W6GX on October 28, 2012, 05:25:01 PM
If a new one is added because it meets all of the DXCC criteria, then I'm all for it.

I despise the entities that somehow got on the list due to mega egos, political pressure, and "gaming the system".

Why? Because that cheapens the program.

rich


Well said.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: KH6DC on October 28, 2012, 09:43:23 PM
I agree with Paul and I'm all for it IF they meet ARRL DXCC Criteria and complies with ITU rules.  Other than that it's just an exercise.

73, Delwyn, KH6DC


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: SV1XV on October 29, 2012, 12:54:36 AM
In this contest the sponsors use both the ARRL and the DARC (WAE) entity lists to calculate multipliers, and AFAIK Kosovo Z6 is already in the DARC list and, therefore, counts as a multiplier.



Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: AA6YQ on October 29, 2012, 01:11:35 AM
There is a simple solution to the ifs, ands, buts, and whats that there may be with this....If you don't see it on the DXCC list, don't work it!....That's what I plan on doing....Until there is official word it becomes a DXCC entity, Kosovo will be an after thought that I am not going to lose sleep over.....Working something that isn't offical or doesn't count for anything yet is a waste of time and energy.....Just one operator's opinion.........

Z6 QSOs count for CQ DX Marathon and CQ WAZ awards.

     73,

        Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: AF3Y on October 29, 2012, 07:51:36 AM
There is a simple solution to the ifs, ands, buts, and whats that there may be with this....If you don't see it on the DXCC list, don't work it!....That's what I plan on doing....Until there is official word it becomes a DXCC entity, Kosovo will be an after thought that I am not going to lose sleep over.....Working something that isn't offical or doesn't count for anything yet is a waste of time and energy.....Just one operator's opinion.........

Z6 QSOs count for CQ DX Marathon and CQ WAZ awards.

     73,

        Dave, AA6YQ

Does not surprise me.  Since CQ started accepting eQSL for WAZ, I dont have a lot of regard for any of their awards now.  My WAZ was my favorite "Brag" award, and still is, but I will have my doubts about the validity of WAZ certificates post eQSL allowance. Just my opinion.

73, Gene AF3Y


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: SV1XV on December 19, 2012, 12:14:30 PM
The QSL card for Z60K arrived today.


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: N2RJ on December 19, 2012, 12:29:40 PM
There is a simple solution to the ifs, ands, buts, and whats that there may be with this....If you don't see it on the DXCC list, don't work it!....That's what I plan on doing....Until there is official word it becomes a DXCC entity, Kosovo will be an after thought that I am not going to lose sleep over.....Working something that isn't offical or doesn't count for anything yet is a waste of time and energy.....Just one operator's opinion.........

Z6 QSOs count for CQ DX Marathon and CQ WAZ awards.

     73,

        Dave, AA6YQ

Does not surprise me.  Since CQ started accepting eQSL for WAZ, I dont have a lot of regard for any of their awards now.  My WAZ was my favorite "Brag" award, and still is, but I will have my doubts about the validity of WAZ certificates post eQSL allowance. Just my opinion.

73, Gene AF3Y


They require EQSL AG for their awards. Still not as strict as LoTW but acceptable in my book.


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: SV1XV on December 20, 2012, 04:22:37 AM
The front side of the Z60K QSL card: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g7ahn/8291018296/


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: K0HB on October 03, 2013, 02:03:14 PM
Some boys went out and played on their amateur radios.  They didn't hurt anyone.

DILLIGAF?



Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: N2NL on October 03, 2013, 02:16:30 PM


Does not surprise me.  Since CQ started accepting eQSL for WAZ, I dont have a lot of regard for any of their awards now.  My WAZ was my favorite "Brag" award, and still is, but I will have my doubts about the validity of WAZ certificates post eQSL allowance. Just my opinion.

73, Gene AF3Y

[/quote]

I thought this too initially until I got a couple emails from the WAZ manager asking to confirm QSOs.  He spot checks QSOs - even with an EQSL or QSL card confirmation - by checking with the operator or QSL manager to ensure a contact is valid.  This has restored my confidence in the program (at least WAZ - I can't speak for the other CQ awards).

73, Dave


Title: RE: Kosovo-Z60K and Z60WW operations
Post by: AD9DX on October 03, 2013, 07:12:55 PM
I haven't worked Kosovo yet. I am not opposed to doing so, I just don't see the point as of now. If they are on and don't have a big pileup I'll most likely make an effort. There is just too much valid DX to work at the moment.