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eHam Forums => Station Building => Topic started by: KI4HBX on December 09, 2012, 04:47:23 PM



Title: Tuner ?
Post by: KI4HBX on December 09, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
I have decided to get a new Kenwood TS-590s and would like to know what would be a good Antenna Tuner to get for it? I will be using some sort of wire antenna G5rv, OCF Dipole, or a regular center fed etc.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: W8JX on December 09, 2012, 05:40:51 PM
It should tune a G5RV with its built in tuner.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: VE3FMC on December 09, 2012, 07:32:19 PM
It should tune a G5RV with its built in tuner.

The internal tuner may not tune every band on the G5RV. Most internal tuners can handle a 3:1 SWR. If the SWR is above that it will simply not tune the antenna. The tuner in my FT-950 is good to about 4:1, anything after that forget it.



Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: WA4NJY on December 10, 2012, 03:52:54 AM

The LDG KT-100 would be my choice.  Double check that it works with the 590.

Ed


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: W8JX on December 10, 2012, 04:57:00 AM
It should tune a G5RV with its built in tuner.

The internal tuner may not tune every band on the G5RV. Most internal tuners can handle a 3:1 SWR. If the SWR is above that it will simply not tune the antenna. The tuner in my FT-950 is good to about 4:1, anything after that forget it.



The tuner in my 570 will handle up to 5 to 1 and I would expect similar performance with 590.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: KH6AQ on December 10, 2012, 08:14:37 AM
Don't guess, know. The TS-590S auto tuner range is 16.7 to 150 ohms.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0590spec.html

For all around matching of just about anything I prefer a manual tuner such as the MFJ-901B.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: VA3KBC on December 10, 2012, 09:14:55 AM
What are your plans for the future.
If you are going to run some power, say 500 watts or so then you may want to get a tuner that will handle it.
I started with the MFJ 945E that was only good to about 300.
I sold it and purchased a good used Palstar TL1500 that can take 3000watts, because I had purchased a Dentron CLipperton L
My 160 OCF dipole requires a tuner for 160, and the higher part of the 80 meter band..
My TS590 with 35 to 40 watts drives my Amp around 500 watts depending on which band I'm on.
73, DJ
VA3KBC


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: K5JZS on December 10, 2012, 09:31:38 AM
use a regular center fed dipole, with a balun, and you wont need a tuner :)


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: W8JX on December 10, 2012, 04:34:56 PM
Don't guess, know. The TS-590S auto tuner range is 16.7 to 150 ohms.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0590spec.html

For all around matching of just about anything I prefer a manual tuner such as the MFJ-901B.

There is no "guess" involved. My 570 is rated same range but tune far more. Beside if SWR is to high to tune it will tell you and not hurt rig at all.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: WN2C on December 11, 2012, 10:10:50 AM
SGC antenna coupler.

de wn2c  Rick


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: K9MHZ on December 13, 2012, 05:43:47 AM
use a regular center fed dipole, with a balun, and you wont need a tuner :)

Yes he will.  Band edges outside of the 2:1 bandwidth.  Drake made the MN-2000 for precisely that....no roller inductor or massive capacitances to try and tune a coat hanger.....it was made to handle band edges of good, well-designed antennas.  Just an example of tuners not being the evil devices that some make them out to be.  It was one of the finest tuners ever made.


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: K9MHZ on December 13, 2012, 05:45:12 AM
use a regular center fed dipole, with a balun, and you wont need a tuner :)

Yes he will.  Band edges outside of the 2:1 bandwidth.  Drake made the MN-2000 for precisely that....no roller inductor or massive capacitances to try and tune a coat hanger.....it was made to handle band edges of good, well-designed antennas.  Just an example of tuners not being the evil devices that some make them out to be.  It was one of the finest tuners ever made.

Agree with you on the center-fed dipole part though....no substitute for good antennas.



Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: W5LZ on December 13, 2012, 09:13:07 AM
It appears that the consensus of opinion is that the internal tuner should be able to handle what you want.  Of course, there's no guarantee to that, it assumes that 'everything' is as it 'should' be.  So, if you want to 'cover your bets' then a typically 'large' external tuner should come in handy.
The typical tuner is only to keep your transmitter happy when using an unsuitable antenna.  It isn't going to do any 'miracles' for how well that unsuitable antenna works, just keep the transmitter happy.  Because of how a tuner does what it does, one that can do a lot will of necessity be 'large' because of the required size of it's components.  If that 'size' is a consideration then it's also probably going to be inconvenient, where ya'gonna put the thing?  Oh well...
 - 'Doc

(That "size of the toys" thingy is a consideration in some cases, it isn't always a joke.)


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: K2OWK on December 13, 2012, 09:14:04 PM
I have been using an MFJ-914 Auto Tuner Extender for a few years now. It increases the internal auto tuner range to 10 to 1. I have been using it on a 32 foot S9 antenna with good results.

73s

K2OWK


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: N4FBW on December 25, 2012, 09:49:41 PM
G5RV antennas really were not designed to be fed with coax and a balun. Open wire line to a balanced antenna tuner is the best way to use a G5RV. The tuner can be in the shack but if you'd like to keep the open wire line outside the shack, the tuner should be one that is remotely mounted.

Note that coax becomes quite lossy at high SWR's. The internal tuner on the rig or that coax fed tuner will do the trick, but if you are experiencing high SWR's you really should consider open wire line and a balanced tuner, or, adjust the antennas to lower the SWR. I realize that sometimes this is not practical, though


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: N3WAK on December 30, 2012, 05:51:35 AM
use a regular center fed dipole, with a balun, and you wont need a tuner :)

Well, if by "regular center fed dipole, with a balun," you mean a 1/2 wave dipole fed with coax (and a balun), the antenna will only work fine on a single band--on the band where it is resonant.  That is, it will work great on 80 meters, but no place else.  The one exception would be a 40 meter dipole which you could use on 15 meters, where it will be a 3/2 wave dipole. 

As a practical matter, except for the 40/15 meter combination (and, maybe, just maybe, an 80/10 combination), a coax-fed dipole is going to limit you to a single band.  If you want multiband operation, try a coax-fed fan dipole or use ladderline and an external tuner. 

If you Google "$4 Special," you'll find a great introduction on homebrewing a simple, ladder line-fed antenna. 

73, Tony


Title: RE: Tuner ?
Post by: AA4PB on December 30, 2012, 07:00:22 AM
Unfortunately, more than a few people think that you can use a tuner to "force" any antenna to work on any band, regardless of what the antenna was designed for. As a result they wind up with a lot of loss in the tuner and the feed line and a relatively small amount actually being radiated by the antenna.

With the proper antenna, feed line, and tuner a multiband antenna can be efficient.

Don't believe all the advertising hype either. If an antenna is physically small and easy to put up then it very likely compromises efficiency.