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eHam Forums => Amplifiers => Topic started by: BG1FPX on January 13, 2013, 04:46:01 AM



Title: A Chinese Amp
Post by: BG1FPX on January 13, 2013, 04:46:01 AM
I happened to see this website:

www.amp.co.nf (http://www.amp.co.nf)

It writes:

Since 2010 with advanced technologies and selected materials, we began to manufacture HF-serie power amplifiers for global radio amateurs. Now we provide two models: manual HF2000DX and automatic HF2011DX-A. We received favorable comments from our customers after their two-year's trial. The main specifications are:

Frequency: 1.8-29MHz
SSB output power: 2000W
CW output power: 1500W
Driving power: 5-70W


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NT4I on January 13, 2013, 06:01:16 AM
From the pictures, it looks like it's built well.
Maybe it will be a better low cost alternative to Ameritron??
I don't think it could be any worse?
I sent them an email, maybe they will respond with additional information?

Could be a winner if it's priced right and works well.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W9KDX on January 13, 2013, 06:42:38 AM
Growing up in the days of Zenith, it is unfortunate so see that American made electronics have such sad quality control these days.  I routinely take apart Chinese made products and the care and detail are impressive.

This Chinese product will probably be better than Ameritron on many fronts.  With good pricing and distribution, maybe they might even give MFJ the wake up call they need.  I would love to try out one of these.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: AB4D on January 13, 2013, 07:01:32 AM
Is it a Chinese amplifier?  They look identical to OM Power Amplifiers. Maybe they are importing them into China from Slovakia???

http://www.om-power.com/about-us


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 07:15:38 AM
The price on the Automatic is exellent (approx $3500.00 USD) when compared to a similar featured US brand.  Very interesting reading!

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N3JBH on January 13, 2013, 08:21:32 AM
Yea it is but $468.00 in shipping is a bit hard on the wallet. Plus we loosing enough work in this country with out adding yet more offshore products in my opinion.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NT4I on January 13, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
Just as a follow up, I would want more information before I "wired" my money to China based on this thread and a couple emails.
All we have been presented with, is an internet posing, a one page 'advertisement" and a lure of a low cost, legal limit amplifier.
With that being said, I am NOT saying or implying that they are not legit, but I would feel  more comfortable with a US based distributor that accepted credit cards so there is a least a chance of recourse in the event of a problem.
Heck, we don't even know what tube it uses......or who these folks are. If you have a problem or get "stung", what are going to do? Call the Chinese authorities for resolution?

Just my 2 cents worth...


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 08:48:42 AM
While I agree $468.00 does seem like a bit much, you are still coming in substantially less than the alternative with similar specifications and features.

After review of these amplifiers, they in fact look almost identical to OM Power OM2500A, which is being sold for $9750.00 by the USA distributor.
Looking at the Alpha 9500 it is listed at $7950.00, which is the closest amplifier made in the USA with the same features as the OM2500A.  

In this case I would be voting with my wallet, as the cost savings is huge. It would probably be another story if these could be had at a 20-30% markup within the USA, but we are talking well over 100% markup in this case.

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 08:50:25 AM
That is a good point as well, but those look to be OM Power Amplfiers to me. Can anyone shed any futher light on this topic?


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KU3X on January 13, 2013, 12:11:44 PM
Before you place your order for one of these amp, unless they make a special model for the US, these amps are 230 volts at 50 cycles, not 60 cycles.
Barry


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 13, 2013, 12:25:36 PM
Before you place your order for one of these amp, unless they make a special model for the US, these amps are 230 volts at 50 cycles, not 60 cycles.
Barry

I've never encountered a power transformer that could handle 50Hz that couldn't also handle 60Hz.  Matter of fact, the spec is usually termed as, "50/60Hz". 

Does anybody know anything about US Type Acceptance for this product? 

That may be the problem, don't know.


73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 01:05:53 PM
As I look at both the OM Power webpage and the inside snap shots of these amplifier's, I am struck by the resemblance. While I do see what appears to be a different marking on the top of the tube utilized, the blower assembly and power supply look identical. Even the components utilized on the CCA on top of the power transformers look to be exactly alike.

While I cannot speak to type certification, I do know the US Distributor has obtained type certification on the OM Power amplifiers they sell here in the USA. While I am not suggesting this means these variants from china  are type certified, it could suggest getting this amplifier type certified is possible, but it would take some time to complete.


73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: EI2GLB on January 13, 2013, 01:42:26 PM
From my reading of the post by BG1FPX I wonder did OM Power get there amps manufactured in China, and now the Manufacture is selling them direct and not via OM Power.

Bit like the way Alpha used to use Acom to make there amps back in the day.

I have heard that copyright and patents mean nothing in China.



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: AD4U on January 13, 2013, 04:08:01 PM
Before you place your order for one of these amp, unless they make a special model for the US, these amps are 230 volts at 50 cycles, not 60 cycles.
Barry

I've never encountered a power transformer that could handle 50Hz that couldn't also handle 60Hz.  Matter of fact, the spec is usually termed as, "50/60Hz". 

Does anybody know anything about US Type Acceptance for this product? 

That may be the problem, don't know.


73

Most (if not ALL) dedicated 50 Hz power transformers will operate just perfectly and a bit cooler on 60 Hz.  The opposite is not always the case.

Dick  AD4U


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 06:22:35 PM
I just received an email from BG7JAA, and they only accept a bank wire transfer at this time. In my response to him, I asked him to send me an operator's manual for the amplifier.

At the end of the day, a bank transfer is NOT going to work for me. If he would accept a major credit card, I would seriously consider buying one. Maybe on or next email exchange, I will bring this to his attention.

73

AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W9GB on January 13, 2013, 06:59:21 PM
Array Solutions is the USA distributor for OM Power, and the prices are closer to Alpha prices.
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/OM_Power/OM_Power.htm


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 07:11:37 PM
Hi Jim:

I just checked the price for the OM Amplifiers distributed by Array Solutions. The OM Power Automatic is much more expensive than the Alpha 9500, unless I did not read the site correctly. Lookk at my previous post, there is a pretty large gap in price between the two amplifiers.

AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NT4I on January 13, 2013, 07:15:43 PM
I also emailed them and this is the response:

Dear Vince,

Thank you for your email.

1/ more information -- sorry, we want to write a detailed instruction, but we don't write it now, because we are very busy.

2/ cost -- manual model 16000 RMBY, automatic model 23000 RMBY, shipping fee 3000 RMBY

1 USD = 6.2 RMBY

3/ order -- If you decide to order, we will tell you our banking account.

Best regards,

Zhang Hong (BG1FPX / KJ6DCI)
Guan Zeyong (BG7JAA)


Call me a sceptic, but the original email announcement came from China, the amp looks identical to OM Power, no manual, only accept wired bank transfer, a one page web site, substantially less cost than OM Power, this offer is to good to be true!  

Something isn't right!  A fool and his money is soon parted!


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 13, 2013, 07:41:37 PM
I do believe these amplifiers exist, as when you do a Google search on the model number there are a few YouTube videos showing the HF2011DX-A in action.   With regard to the manual this is the response I received:

" We are writing an instruction manual.
Once we finish it, we will upload it into our website.
Please wait for several days.
Thank you very much."

I then responded with the following:

"Do you think it would be possible for you to accept a major credit card such as VISA, Mastercard, or American Express in the near future?  The reason I ask is, there is a great number of USA Amateur Radio Operators who are interested in this amplifier. Most USA buyers are going require the use of major credit cards in order to buy this amplifier, as this provides protection should something happen to the Amplifier while in shipment to the USA."

As I search the internet, I also note the same message from the same call sign was posted on QRZ.com!

Rich, AJ3G



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W6GX on January 13, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
I watched one of the Youtube videos.  I understand Chinese and basically he was demonstrating the protection circuity of the amp.  He said the amp. will produce a fault at 250w reflected power in 0.2 seconds.  Not very informative but I thought I'd share this with you.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1JKA on January 14, 2013, 06:46:26 AM
     What am I missing here? Original topic poster BGIFPX Said"happened to see this website"(www.amp.co.nf).In a response e-mail to NT4I one of the signers is also BGIFPX.I'm just wondering why BGIFPX just happen to notice that he has is own website!!.Also it's not to difficult to put a different name/logo decal on a similar looking piece of gear and post it on YouTube.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NT6U on January 14, 2013, 07:04:41 AM
  I am not an expert on buildings in other parts of the world, however the building on the Web site sure looks a lot like 350 S. Grand Ave. Los Angeles Ca.   I could be wrong, however being in construction of these / THAT building in and around LA for  26. years.... ???


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 07:08:13 AM
That is a very interesting correlation. I had not caught on to this until I read the email sent to NT4I.

I wonder how long it will take someone from OM Power to provide clarity on this issue???

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K1ZJH on January 14, 2013, 07:52:02 AM
I think the OP also holds a K6 license. Wonder if that has something to do with it?


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KC9TNH on January 14, 2013, 09:29:07 AM
Shucks, I'll have to check it out at home. The work firewall blocks access to that domain based on its phishing-scam history... maybe the identical post over at the 'other' forum will have some pictures up.
 ::)


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 11:40:18 AM
This afternoon I called the owner of the USA Distributor of OM Power, Array Solutions.  My question to Array Solutions was what is their knowledge or position on this amplifier being offered by a manufacture in China.  Their response was basically they were aware of the amplifier, and have recently written OM Power to seek clarification. Array Solutions did mention the amplifier in questions was likely not FCC Type certified, which I think is no surprise.

Basically I think this establishes the fact these amplifiers are in fact copies of OM Power, which I pretty much knew after reviewing the internal workings. The question I would have is; did OM Power release the design to this company, or is this a complete reverse engineering effort?  Based on my research in the last 24 hours, it appears this amplifier is real, and is being manufactured in quantity, in China.

If the design was in fact released by OM Power then I think it would be wise of them to say so now "the cat is out of the bag". The reason I say this is, if I were an individual who bought one of these amplifiers from the USA Authorized distributor, I would be infuriated to learn I could have an almost identical amplifier at a fraction of the cost! The same thing goes if the design was copied without authorization, OM Power needs to chime in here and provide clarity into this issue.

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 14, 2013, 12:01:45 PM
Consider that the amp may be a knockoff of someone else's hard work and intellectual property. 

Consider that, apparently, you have to give up your bank account info to order one. 

Consider that someone here says they recognize the building, and it ain't in China. 

Consider that if a deal seems too good to be true, it is because something's wrong somewhere.

Tread carefully. 

Did you ever get back to that guy from Nigeria who is holding your winning lottery money? 


73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N3QE on January 14, 2013, 12:06:03 PM
If the design was in fact released by OM Power then I think it would be wise of them to say so now "the cat is out of the bag". The reason I say this is, if I were an individual who bought one of these amplifiers from the USA Authorized distributor, I would be infuriated to learn I could have an almost identical amplifier at a fraction of the cost! The same thing goes if the design was copied without authorization, OM Power needs to chime in here and provide clarity into this issue.

Watching people get worked up over the price or features on a Chinese amp, that is not even being offered for sale, is somewhat amusing. Compare to the "Dedicated RF" thread.

Reminds me of a tale from my youth in a small town, with two butchers' shops. One was advertising pork chops for 29 cents a pound. My mom goes in to that one, and asks, and they're all out of pork chops. So she goes to the other shop and asks them to lower their price from 39 cents to 29 cents a pound to match the competition. The butcher tells my mom "Lady, if I didn't have any pork chops, I'd be selling them for 29 cents a pound too."


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 12:30:22 PM
NE3Q:

I am not getting all worked up, and why should I, I have no skin in the game other than the time it took to research the issue out of self interest.

I do however, feel bad for people who spent their hard earned money on a brand name, that could be had for a substantial discount! 


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N3QE on January 14, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
NE3Q:

I am not getting all worked up, and why should I, I have no skin in the game other than the time it took to research the issue out of self interest.

I do however, feel bad for people who spent their hard earned money on a brand name, that could be had for a substantial discount! 

I'd feel more sorry, for the guy who wired his money overseas, to an outfit that is so busy they don't even have a manual for the vaporware, that they found on a website registered to a rare island, and got nothing.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 12:37:23 PM
Agreed, although I just can't imagine anyone wiring funds to a bank account in this case. Of course dumber things have happened!

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KD8MJR on January 14, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
I think these are the same guys I was in contact with about a year ago, because the Amp looks the same!

I went the whole 9 yards with these guys, I even had a business acquaintance who flies to China about once a month agree to go in person and pick up the Amp and pay them cash.   At the end of about a 6 or 7 email exchange they finally told me that they don't want to sell outside of China ???  My reply was that your not selling outside of China your selling to a guy who will be in China so it's not going to be your problem exporting it.  End Result, no reply to that last email  ::)

Based on that you make up your own mind.



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KD0REQ on January 14, 2013, 02:54:03 PM
on its face, sounds like these guys don't want to get busted at the Customs desk.

I suspect they would be.

and the guy ordering would be the one stuck outta luck.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: ZENKI on January 14, 2013, 03:05:03 PM
These are direct copies of the OMPOWER amps. This is normal business practice  for Chinese companies. They just copy what is perceived to be successful. They even copy Mercedes and Jeep cars in China.

Since there is nothing   about the design that is  patented or a registered design they can do this. Is it ethical that is another question.   I think people who do this kind of direct copying are really fraudsters.
Most of Chinas success is based on fraud, and all you are doing is destroying jobs in the  west by supporting this fraud.  I am sure there will be hams who will buy these products for what reason I dont know.
I suppose when you go down the road and look in the shops you will understand  why China is so successful, they have built an empire on copying and manufacuring. At the same time they have destroyed
your neighbors or the jobs of your relatives and friends.  This is new world order of free trade, not fair trade.

You can take any product to China and have a copy of it made including the firmware in a  week or two.

The real problem with these Chinese products is that they just equalize the prices with the prices that you pay in the west. So at the end of the day you getting an inferior product for the same price, they really
not a bargain. I would not support this kind of vulture capitalism.  You dont mind companies that produce innovative and products of their own design, why should you support opportunist who are just rip off artists.

You would be crazy sinking that kind of money into  an unproven product. But hey it might be better than using a CB RM Italy amplifier on the ham bands!


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: BG1FPX on January 14, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
A clarification:

I'm not one of owners of the company, I'm only a friend of BG7JAA.

BG7JAA can't read and write English, so I help him with translation.

I don't buy this product, but many Chinese hams bought it, and they unanimously said "good".

That's all I know.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
Hello BG1FPX:

I see that your website has recently changed (within the last 24 Hours), is this in preperation for the USA User Manual?  

Also, is BG7JAA going to offer any other method of payment than Bank Wire Transfer?  You have to understand, insisting on bank wire transfer payment as opposed to major credit card, is considered a huge risk to us here in the USA.

Finally, could you please inquire as to BG7JAA's exact relationship to OM Power? If there is no relationship, then please say so.

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: AB4D on January 14, 2013, 06:41:50 PM
All,

I contacted the U.S. Distributor of OM Power amplifiers. The response I received, OM Power is aware of these amplifiers. They are knockoffs, that do not contain the same internal components.

As a consumer, I would never purchase one of those amps.  IMO they are in the same bucket as fake Rolex watches and counterfeit recordings of movies and music.  I just doesn't sit well with me to promote or support unscrupulous activities, such as someone apparently infringing on others intellectual property.  Obviously, the person in China can manufacture an amplifier.  Why not go one step further, and actually design one they can call their own?

73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 14, 2013, 06:59:01 PM
I am glad we got to the bottom of this saga. I suppose the US Distributor finally received a response from OM Power direct, which was something they were working on when I called earlier.

As knockoffs go, this one is pretty impressive, all the way down to the LOGO on the front panel, and identical component placement on the CCA's :)


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W5JON on January 14, 2013, 07:01:22 PM
But hey it might be better than using a CB RM Italy amplifier on the ham bands!

An anonymous individual that can not resist taking a cheap shot, having nothing to do with the topic.

73,

John


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K8AXW on January 14, 2013, 08:24:10 PM
How short our memories are.... or perhaps most here are younger than I am.

This is exactly the same procedure the Japanese used when they entered the world market after WWII!  They copied everything American and sold it to us cheaper.  The initial offerings are what created the phrase, "Japanese Junk!"

The Chinese apparently learned this lesson and is applying it although from what few things I've bought from mainland China via eBay is of better quality than what the Japanese first offered us.

I predict that we're going to see a tremendous influx of inexpensive 144/440 HTs and then perhaps amplifiers and then transceivers.  I also predict these products will be of pretty decent quality.  The Japanese are in for some serious competition.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1JKA on January 15, 2013, 03:51:45 AM
     Maybe TenTec should import these directly and pay the custom/duty fees and put their own name/logo on them  then everybody would be happy.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W3DBB on January 15, 2013, 05:05:33 AM
Ten Tec's trail-friendly QRP rig is an import. They sell it but I'm not sure they put their logo on it. It is similar to MFJ's offering. Probably came out of the same factory.

I have little sympathy for the Japanese companies, after what they did to the American manufacturers. They made their money; now they can get out.

One way of looking at it is we already have a Chinese line of linear amplifiers- Ameritron. Assembled in Mississippi with lots of foreign content.

The good old days were just that- good and old. Manufacturing in the U.S. will continue to downtrend regardless of how much public money is wasted on it.

You've got to look ahead even if the future is unclear or doesn't look so good.



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KC4MOP on January 15, 2013, 07:18:15 AM
What is the track record on Chinese RF tubes?? I bought a used AL1500 that thankfully had an Eimac tube in it. Ameritron always offers a Chinese tube for about $250 some dollars cheaper.
I looked at MFJ/Ameritron and they only offer the Eimac tube for that amp. sooooo...

Reading other replies here about buying in-country and pack it as baggage home is not goodness either. I traveled to the Philippines with a simple Kenwood TS50 and there was a stink at the Philippine baggage check-in, when we were leaving the country after a 2 mos stay. They opened all of our bags. Even though I had my Reciprocal license and serial # etc etc there were questions. They almost confiscated the radio. Two-way equipment or communication stuff is watched closely...A new computer in a box would be another problem. CUSTOMS want money!!!
Fred


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N3QE on January 15, 2013, 07:54:46 AM
One way of looking at it is we already have a Chinese line of linear amplifiers- Ameritron. Assembled in Mississippi with lots of foreign content.

The good old days were just that- good and old. Manufacturing in the U.S. will continue to downtrend regardless of how much public money is wasted on it.

Well, looking inside my Ameritron, there's obviously a bunch of little components (diodes, resistors, etc.) that was almost certainly made in China. I also happen to know it has Chinese 811A's in it. None of the above are labeled "made in China" but I would be very surprised if they hadn't been made in China.

If some of the above had been made in the US, well, great.

But there's also a lot of sheet metal, a big-ass transformer, etc. I'm pretty sure these were made in the USA. Probably in Starkville or nearby. I also know the amp's designer, and I know for sure he wasn't made in China.

In no way, shape, or form do I think of my Ameritron as a "Chinese amp".

At the same time, my wife has a 2006 Toyota, and I think of that as a Japanese car despite the fact that probably 80% of it was made in the USA :-)

Tim.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K8AXW on January 15, 2013, 08:02:54 AM
An item that I failed to mention in my previous post was that after the term "Japanese Junk" became firmly entrenched in the American vocabulary, the Japanese government decided that in order for them to succeed, this would have to be turned around.  They made it a law that anything exported had to meet government set minimum standards of quality.  

Consequently, the quality of Japanese goods improved and the Japanese economy skyrocketed.  Japan has become a world leader for quality goods.

The Chinese will learn this lesson much faster than the Japanese.  The day when the Chinese government institutes similar standards is in sight.  I predict that we will see an improvement in the quality of Chinese transmitting tubes as well as the rest of their exports.  

It would be a simple matter to corner the market for transmitting tubes if indeed the quality was improved.  They're almost there as it is.



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W8JX on January 15, 2013, 08:32:51 AM
The Chinese will learn this lesson much faster than the Japanese.  The day when the Chinese government institutes similar standards is in sight.  I predict that we will see an improvement in the quality of Chinese transmitting tubes as well as the rest of their exports.  

It would be a simple matter to corner the market for transmitting tubes if indeed the quality was improved.  They're almost there as it is.

Chinese have already learned. As far as corning market on tubes, they have it by default. Not much future or profit in 811's or such as it is a dead end technology. Be glad they make them at all.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 15, 2013, 03:06:31 PM
History or Revisionist History? 

Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 

Marshall Plan strategies. 

Meanwhile back in the states, the Whiz Kids who took over Ford first and then gradually managed to have their "alumni" at the tops of over 250 US corporations, had successfully turned the Engineers, Designers, even the factory workers, into nothing more than numbers on a page, the bean counters making the P and L statements all powerful over issues such as product quality.  Then the head Whiz Kid, who had managed to wrest near complete control over Ford Motors and was made the company President, even without being a member of the Ford family, didn't spend a month as Ford president, but was invited to be Secretary of Defense.  Bob McNamara.  Insisting on using the same statistical analyis of only bottom line dollars and then trying to convert that into body counts and all sorts of other dumb things in an effort to quant the thing rather than listen to or try the advice of those who had actually been to war and won, playing games of tossing out academic sounding numbers ad infinitum and even going so far as to belittle others who turned out to be right all along. 

At some point we American Citizens will have to learn to look within as well as without for the root causes of many problems. 

But I doubt it. 


73 



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N4CR on January 15, 2013, 04:16:54 PM
Not to mention how Deming tried to go to Detroit and tell them how to make better cars, where he was sent packing. The Japanese listened to his ideas, implemented them and that led to the Japanese overtaking the US grip on the automobile industry.

We've done some very stupid things here that handed us the loss of our lead on world wide manufacturing.

Eventually Detroit woke up from their slumber and invited him in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Later_work_in_the_U.S.

Remember the phrase "At Ford, Quality is Job #1" ?

Deming.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 15, 2013, 05:23:27 PM
Well, today, Ford enjoys a quality rating that is right up there next to Toyota. 

But Detroit is a wasteland...




Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K8AXW on January 15, 2013, 09:50:57 PM
WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us. 

The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs. 

This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum. 


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 16, 2013, 05:05:42 AM
It looks as though they have started the process of putting spec's and some instructions online.  I just reviewed the following link; http://www.amp.co.nf/instruction.txt and they list what tube they are utilizing amongst other things.

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W9GB on January 16, 2013, 07:39:18 AM
Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about enviromental control costs.  
Anything above 300 micromgrammes is considered hazardous to people's health.
At one stage in Beijing, the pollution level recorded by this index reached 400. A second reading by the Beijing Municipal Environment Monitoring Centre recorded a level 900 of microgrammes in several parts of the city.


Have you seen photos of largest Chinese cities in the past week (China gov't now admits that have a crisis) -- air population so bad (worst than LA in 1970) that it looks like fog.
http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/15/16523268-chinas-state-media-finally-admits-to-air-pollution-crisis?lite

International Business Times (UK)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/424737/20130116/china-beijing-air-pollution-smog-photos-space.htm

You build a new coal plant every MONTH, for past decade -- with little oversight (corruption), this is result.  Gov't had to shutdown factories/power to improve air quality --


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 16, 2013, 09:37:01 AM
WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII. 


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us. 

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time. 

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in. 

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs. 

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think. 

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum. 

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 16, 2013, 10:06:22 AM
WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII.  


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us.  

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time.  

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in.  

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs.

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think.  

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum.  

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73


Guys, I am really having trouble understanding what these series of exchanges have to do with the Amplfiier. While the topic is one I am sure worth discussing; maybe its best to do it on another forum?

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 16, 2013, 02:29:07 PM
My apologies, Rich, I didn't realize we were under a dictum to stay absolutely on one small part of what has become a larger topic. 

Um, was that you we heard policing the bands when that rare DX was workin' the states the other day? 

 ;D


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 16, 2013, 03:17:03 PM
My apologies, Rich, I didn't realize we were under a dictum to stay absolutely on one small part of what has become a larger topic. 

Um, was that you we heard policing the bands when that rare DX was workin' the states the other day? 

 ;D

I guess I just don't understand what US Foreign Policy really has to do with Amplifiers, this Topic, or Ham Radio for that matter.  While it is an interesting topic, and I do like discussing it, I just thought it would be more appropriate if we focused on the topic of the post. Since the person who is acting as the spokesperson for the amplifier manufacture is not from the USA, he may be scared off by the political nature of this conversation. I really am interested in learning more about this amplifier, and do not want him to feel uncomfortable posting here.

This is not meant to be a policing effort, if you really think the discussion that has been going on fits well with the topic at hand, knock yourself out!

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: ZENKI on January 16, 2013, 05:10:13 PM
 What the subject is really about is that broader Chinese government manufacturing policies and the conduct of Chinese manufacturing companies is really harming  the self interests of many countries. These policies are
harming all our  industries because their business practices are very unfair.  We being screwed by them and some here dont really want to say it and want to talk around the edges.

Manufacturing  competition in the international market place is being distorted by the Chinese. This amplifier is is just symptomatic  of the broader issues of unscrupulous business conduct. If you spoke out about these issues in China  you will end up in jail even if you a Chinese American citizen with an American passport. According to the Chinese government regardless of what passport you hold, if you were born in China  you considered a Chinese citizen regardless of what piece of paper you have in your hand. Ask the dozens of  Chinese Americans who are in Chinese jails because of business deals gone bad with Chinese government owned state enterprises.

We will never get fair trade with the Chinese because most politicians are too scared to take them on because  big business endorses Chinese business practices.  You dont expect a innocent  ham to put his balls on the line causing controversy here. In China he might be offending the police chiefs brother who makes this amplifier or its parts and for these reasons it might be best if he shut his mouth. Many people have no idea how bad it is living in a place like China when you can be arrested for smiling wrongly!

WD:

Quote
Um, the Japanese had quite a bit of help from US and Britain manufacturing and university sources after the war.  This continued for quite some time.  It was social engineering designed to prevent a nation from going back to war again, a lesson learned the hard way over WWI to WWII.  


That is partly true.  You are 100% true about the tube situation.  We did give them not just a lot of help, but a tremendous amount of help.  Their thanks was to steal the rest of what they needed, namely American invention and process and then sell it all back to us.  

There is a paper trail that can be readily found to proof my statement.  American scientists, engineers, physicists, etc. were indeed involved in a 'technology sharing' over at least two decades in time, likely longer, that was funded by your and my tax dollars.  The Japanese actually were quite the honest businessmen regarding our technologies.  We gave them a lot of things, for example, more modern methods of manufacturing processes than businesses here were willing to invest in at the time.  

One of the shortest Phd theses in existence belongs to the young Japanese physicist who described the Field Effect Transistor.  Just sayin'...

Quote
The Chinese are presently being 'assisted' by our government but not as openly as it was with the Japanese.  You have only to look at the paper industry to see that we are being decimated by the almost uncontrolled importation of cheap labor paper.

And Americans are enjoying the lower costs of such.  By the millions.  If you don't like it, pay more for your paper goods.  But you will be in the minority and the situation WILL continue, for reasons of greed and each person looking out for their own interests, the latter case being only common sense that I can find no wrong in.  

Quote
We are being killed enviromentally by our stringent EPA regulations while the Chinese (and several others) are not concerned about inviromental control costs.

Agreed.  Often we can prove to be our own worst enemies.   The crap that's being taught in schools and universities about the issue is going to prove to be the final straw, I think.  

Quote
This discussion can go on for quite some time but this isn't the point being presented here on this forum.  

"Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the views they take of them."  --Epictetus

73


Guys, I am really having trouble understanding what these series of exchanges have to do with the Amplfiier. While the topic is one I am sure worth discussing; maybe its best to do it on another forum?

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NT4I on January 16, 2013, 06:42:45 PM
Boy, this thread is really getting off topic.
A lot of opinions that have no bearing on the topic.......

Just my 2 cents worth.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1JKA on January 17, 2013, 03:52:45 AM
RE: NT4I
             Hams are like everybody else,we all want our 15 minutes of fame.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: ZS5WC on January 17, 2013, 04:40:27 AM
 ???

I recently purchesed a well known Japanese (big Three) Ham Rig from a dealer, and boy!--was I surprised when the box arrived--in BIG BOLD letters on the box it stated -"Made In CHINA"!..
No Brands mentioned.
Possibly due to the Tsunami in Japan?--but then isn't everything electronic made in China?-Hi!.

The whole Linear story looks a bit fishy though-note in one of the pics the 'engineer' bench testing an amp..
he certainly does not look Chinese.. ;D

73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 17, 2013, 05:03:34 AM
Well I received email from Guan (BG7JAA) yesterday.  Here is what was said:

" Dear Rich,

We received a threatening email from OM Power's American distributor, he said, if we sell this product in American market, we would have a legal trouble. So we decide to apply for FCC certification first. Thank you for    your interest to this product.

Guan, BG7JAA"


Personally I kind of think this is an idle threat, as I do not see how OM Power (A Slovakian Company) would have any legal standing in a United States Court. Since OM Power is Slovakian and the manufacture making the replicas is Chinese, I just hard time believing anything would really come of it, should legal action be attempted in the United States.

I guess the good news out of this is, Guan is proceeding with Type Certification. This would certainly be a step in the right direction, and provide a potential buyer or interested party more confidence in the product.

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KC4MOP on January 17, 2013, 07:14:47 AM
Boy, this thread is really getting off topic.
A lot of opinions that have no bearing on the topic.......

Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree the replies are drifting and getting long winded.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KE3WD on January 17, 2013, 07:41:42 AM
Rather than telling others what they can and cannot post in a thread, why not simply take the tack of "DO NOT READ" that which bothers you so much? 

Roll right past to the next post in the thread and be happy. 


73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: AB4D on January 17, 2013, 03:38:06 PM

I guess the good news out of this is, Guan is proceeding with Type Certification. This would certainly be a step in the right direction, and provide a potential buyer or interested party more confidence in the product.

Rich


A step in the right direction, would be to remove the modified OM Power's logo from the front panel, and to design a front panel and amplifier that is unique and original.

73


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N4ATS on January 17, 2013, 04:35:40 PM
It will be a pleasure to see more competition on the market to move out the typical junk makers and give us more options at reasonable cost but maintain a quality product that actually works when you receive it. I see many companies that are starting to corner the market.

I have already emailed them and asked who will be the US rep's and when...

Nice work....


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 17, 2013, 05:16:25 PM

I guess the good news out of this is, Guan is proceeding with Type Certification. This would certainly be a step in the right direction, and provide a potential buyer or interested party more confidence in the product.

Rich


A step in the right direction, would be to remove the modified OM Power's logo from the front panel, and to design a front panel and amplifier that is unique and original.

73

The LOGO was tad over the top, and to be honest I thought what I was looking at was a true OM Power amplifier until I noticed the difference in the model number.

The Chinese OM Power Copy is similar to what another manufacture did when making the PUMA line amplifiers. The PUMA PL-6K I have here at the station, remind me of a Henry but was made in the Far East, somewhere. The one I own was modified to run on 40M only and I have been gathering the parts to restore it to a multiband amplifier. Despite the fact it was an obvious attempt to mimic a Henry amplifier; it is incredibly well built, and has provided many years of fairly reliable service in a very demanding contest environment.

While I am not sure where in the Far East this amplifier came from, I did find one website of an individual who restored the PL-3K version of this amplifier (http://www.bear-el.com/pl3k/), not sure what this page is trying to say exactly, but from the pictures you can see it looks pretty close to a Henry! I guess this makes me a little less skeptic than other about amplifiers coming in from China!


73

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W6GX on January 17, 2013, 05:58:29 PM
I think that there could be a market for an American designed but Chinese built amplifier.  Amplifiers are getting hideously expensive and I don't see a problem of the Chinese building amplifiers as long as it's not a stolen design.  Taiwan already has a big market of contract manufacturers and it could be another option.  Have you ever opened up a LDG tuner and compare it against a naked MFJ tuner?  It's like night and day.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: ZENKI on January 17, 2013, 07:24:13 PM
If you cant afford a  very good amplifier build it yourself. If you cant afford a decent amplifier you can build one that will outperform and outlast any ham commercial amplifier.

The Chinese tube industry is in the same position as the Russian tube makers. The market is small and there is not much demand. So who knows what the availability of these Chinese tubes will be  in the future.

At least if you use a tube thats widely used in industry like the 8877, you have a good chance of finding  and buying one. Who in the west uses FU728's? Answer nobody.
The moment these Chinese Amps hit the USA market the price of the tubes will skyrocket. The Chinese are also price gouging on what they charge for their amps. Is it coincidence that
Chinese amps are  priced virtually identical to the OMPOWER pricing. They making a absolute killing. Last time I looked the Emtron Amplifiers from Australia were selling for a cheaper price than these Chinese Amps.

The days of tubes amplifiers are fast coming to the end. 2kW solid state amps will be the norm in the next 2 years. Why would you tool up for something thats going to be obsolete?
Besides the bottom line with anything Chinese is that it is Cheap Junk, despite  what other say about the quality improving  sometime in the future.
If you look at the lathe market the same  thing has happened. Chinese lathes flooding the market. Despite years of manufacture the chinese lathes are nowhere as good as the lathes that were manufactured
in Europe and the USA. There is always some problems with the Chinese lathe quality and design, they poor quality with lots of bigs. Thats junk in my book.

I would rather send my money to Slovakia and support a company that made a sincere effort to design and build decent amplifiers for the ham market.
 Why would anyone want to support these Chinese knock off crooks is beyond belief. Its amusing to read that so many Americans are so pro anything thats cheap. I wonder how many of them
actually realize how   the Chinese are really destroying their economic might by destroying the manufacturing base in the USA. Very soon the USA will have no manufacturing industry and everyone in the USA
will be consumers of Chinese manufactured goods. I wonder who is going to be the Sheriff of the world  when you can afford to be one because your  manufacturing base is gone offshore? So much for patriotism.


I think that there could be a market for an American designed but Chinese built amplifier.  Amplifiers are getting hideously expensive and I don't see a problem of the Chinese building amplifiers as long as it's not a stolen design.  Taiwan already has a big market of contract manufacturers and it could be another option.  Have you ever opened up a LDG tuner and compare it against a naked MFJ tuner?  It's like night and day.

73,
Jonathan W6GX


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 17, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
Is it coincidence that
Chinese amps are  priced virtually identical to the OMPOWER pricing. They making a absolute killing. Last time I looked the Emtron Amplifiers from Australia were selling for a cheaper price than these Chinese Amps.



Where are you getting your pricing from?  The advertised price for these amplifiers is far less than OM Power, and Alpha.  At the current exchange rate it appears as though the subject amplifier is $3700.00 USD for the Automatic, and $2580.00 for the manual version. I have not looked at EMTRON pricing, thus I cannot comment if EMTRON is in fact less expensive or on par with the above mentioned prices.

73

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 17, 2013, 08:08:03 PM
After conducting some more searches on the internet, it appears as though there is some more information and videos of this amplfier. 

1. http://www.cqdx.ru/ham/new-equipment/chinese-hf-amplifier-2011dx-a/

2. http://www.cqdx.ru/ham/new-equipment/chinese-hf-linear-amplifier-revisited-by-nt2x-exclusive-for-cqdx-ru/


The second link appears to be some sort of review by an american ham NT2X.

73

Rich, AJ3G


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1JKA on January 18, 2013, 03:57:10 AM
Re:K04NX
               I checked out the 2nd link in your post and noticed the first amp as a HF2000DX but further down the technician is working on a HF2010DX ??.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 18, 2013, 04:21:50 AM
HI W1JKA:

In the article N2TX, who apparently was the author, claims he knew and called one of the technicians, or something to that effect. I was more interested in the pictures to be honest, as the text really did not say much other than the amplfier seemed to last an entire contest.

I did find a ton of pictures in addtion to the two links provided which can be found here:

http://www.cqdx.ru/ham/?gallery=rf-linear-amplifiers-from-china-in-pics

In this link it appears as though they show more of the building process. I find it interesting they seem to be using a wide variety of components from all over the world, including China.



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KH6DC on January 22, 2013, 07:04:12 PM
Wow, it looks very impressive and meticulous attention to detail.  May give Ameritron the run for the money and may even better Tokyo Hy-Power.  All said, no thanks.  I bought American Made and will keep my Elecraft KPA500 (I know that some or all of the components may be made in china).


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 22, 2013, 07:20:18 PM
Actually, it appears as though they have decided to change the LOGO, and now have incorporated a TFT display!  Take another look at the website, you will see a marked difference in the front panel from a week ago!

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K2GWK on January 23, 2013, 02:23:31 PM
You have to credit them on a nice quality build even though it is a clone. MFJ would not manufacture something this nice.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NK2F on January 24, 2013, 10:34:29 AM
You have to credit them on a nice quality build even though it is a clone. MFJ would not manufacture something this nice.

While the original Chinese amp, two years ago, was indeed a clone, not much is known about the improvements that have resulted in the current design.  According to one of the designers, they have sold over 200 amps and have identified several design flaws (in OM Power, that is) that have been corrected since then. This amp is not an example of blindly copying an existing product.

In general, having a healthy competition in the ham amp space is good for us hams as it pushes innovation and drives prices down. To that end, you may also want to take a look at Alpin, a Bulgarian company, that makes a well priced GU74-based HF and HF+6m amps:

http://www.alpinamplifier.com/

The amp has been reviewed by the German and UK ham publications, receiving very high marks.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 24, 2013, 03:34:10 PM
You have to credit them on a nice quality build even though it is a clone. MFJ would not manufacture something this nice.

This is true, even if they did, I would not want to pay what they would ask for it!

Rich


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W9KDX on January 25, 2013, 02:57:24 PM


In general, having a healthy competition in the ham amp space is good for us hams as it pushes innovation and drives prices down. To that end, you may also want to take a look at Alpin, a Bulgarian company, that makes a well priced GU74-based HF and HF+6m amps:

http://www.alpinamplifier.com/

The amp has been reviewed by the German and UK ham publications, receiving very high marks.

I would love to see some competition in amps over on this side of the pond.  The gap between Ameritron and anything else is just to wide.  Some quality mid-priced alternatives might wake the quality control people at MFJ up a bit.  I no longer care where products are made; if MFJ stands for what "Made in America" means these days.....


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K0IZ on January 25, 2013, 03:19:11 PM
Many more hams coming along in China, so their domestic market will grow a bunch.  The craftsmanship on this amp looks really good, would cost quite a bit here in the US.  Due to distance and questions of support, however, not sure how much market in US.  Would take one of the US major distributors to make it go here.

I don't own any MFJ amps, never have, but I think they do a good job of building to a specific price target.  That's why their amps are popular, and good value.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KO4NX on January 25, 2013, 03:26:42 PM
Many more hams coming along in China, so their domestic market will grow a bunch.  The craftsmanship on this amp looks really good, would cost quite a bit here in the US.  Due to distance and questions of support, however, not sure how much market in US.  Would take one of the US major distributors to make it go here.

I don't own any MFJ amps, never have, but I think they do a good job of building to a specific price target.  That's why their amps are popular, and good value.

I think the reason MFJ/Ameritron was brought up here is the fact the amplifier in question provides way more features, and by all appearances better workmanship for just a little more than you would pay for the top of the line Ameritron.

When they finish the TFT version with the new LOGO that does not look like OM Power, I think I am going to take a gamble on one of these. It's become more of a matter of curiosity than anything!




Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: NK2F on January 25, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
Many more hams coming along in China, so their domestic market will grow a bunch.  The craftsmanship on this amp looks really good, would cost quite a bit here in the US.

I don't own any MFJ amps, never have, but I think they do a good job of building to a specific price target.  That's why their amps are popular, and good value.

The Chinese amp sells for $2,000 for the manual and $3,000 for the automatic, plus shipping. Note that these prices are for the previous model, the OM Power clone, and not for the prototype shown on the site. The RF deck and power supply, however, are identical. This is a steal!


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: BG1FPX on April 09, 2013, 10:42:01 PM
From March, Guan (BG7JAA) uses a new interface to avoid possible patent/copyright dispute.

http://amp.co.nf/8.jpg


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K6AER on April 10, 2013, 05:22:06 PM
What are the design flaws with the OM Power amplifiers?


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: K6UJ on April 05, 2015, 09:19:49 PM
Is it coincidence that
Chinese amps are  priced virtually identical to the OMPOWER pricing. They making a absolute killing. Last time I looked the Emtron Amplifiers from Australia were selling for a cheaper price than these Chinese Amps.



Where are you getting your pricing from?  The advertised price for these amplifiers is far less than OM Power, and Alpha.  At the current exchange rate it appears as though the subject amplifier is $3700.00 USD for the Automatic, and $2580.00 for the manual version. I have not looked at EMTRON pricing, thus I cannot comment if EMTRON is in fact less expensive or on par with the above mentioned prices.

73

Rich

Another ZENKI discrepancy is his statement that 2KW solid state amps will the norm in 2 years.  They have been saying that for years.  ZENKI generates a prolific amount of unreliable information and hides  behind his "ZENKI" alias so we won't discover who he is.  He probably is disguising the fact that he is not a ham.  ::)

Bob
K6UJ



Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1QJ on April 05, 2015, 10:05:39 PM
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/gudguyham/media/IMG_20150330_170228_396_zpskgeicqmq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Hey guys, have a look at this photo of the burned contacts and let me know if you think RF did that in a couple of minutes with no warning to the op or if B+ was on the switch and cooking away while the amp was just turned on.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KH6DC on April 05, 2015, 10:25:04 PM
I'll stick with the known brands like SPE Expert, Alpha, OM Power, ACOM, Emtron, Elecraft and even Ameritron.  :D


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KK5DR on April 06, 2015, 03:22:11 AM
It's amazing what dirt cheap labor will get you.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: N3QE on April 06, 2015, 03:53:10 AM
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/gudguyham/media/IMG_20150330_170228_396_zpskgeicqmq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Hey guys, have a look at this photo of the burned contacts and let me know if you think RF did that in a couple of minutes with no warning to the op or if B+ was on the switch and cooking away while the amp was just turned on.

Is that the 10M contact that burned away? That's almost always the one I find bad in amps.

I've seen American and EU-made amps, where the amp had apparently made thousands of QSO's on 10M yet the band switch didn't actually close the contact (and the amp still apparently worked fine on 10M). Surprised. There was certainly a lot of arcing going on from black marks around that area, but at 3K plate impedance, it's nothing to bridge a 1mm gap. There was indeed a glow from the bandswitch while operating but no obvious sounds or smell.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1QJ on April 06, 2015, 04:21:43 AM
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/gudguyham/media/IMG_20150330_170228_396_zpskgeicqmq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Hey guys, have a look at this photo of the burned contacts and let me know if you think RF did that in a couple of minutes with no warning to the op or if B+ was on the switch and cooking away while the amp was just turned on.

Is that the 10M contact that burned away? That's almost always the one I find bad in amps.

I've seen American and EU-made amps, where the amp had apparently made thousands of QSO's on 10M yet the band switch didn't actually close the contact (and the amp still apparently worked fine on 10M). Surprised. There was certainly a lot of arcing going on from black marks around that area, but at 3K plate impedance, it's nothing to bridge a 1mm gap. There was indeed a glow from the bandswitch while operating but no obvious sounds or smell.

QE, no, in fact it is the 160 meter position.  In that position the padding caps are switched in.  Do you see how the whole contact is burned away right level with the ceramic?  This damage could not have been caused by RF in a matter of minutes of transmitting.  I stick by my gut and say it is B+ on the band switch.  If anyone is curious about this, look up the schematic for the OM-2500 and study it VERY VERY carefully and you will see some rather unconventional circuitry with the plate choke and blocking system.  The plate choke is actually center tapped.  Well seeing is believing. Check it out.  If you can't find the schematic I will try to upload the PDF I have which has it, but if you google images of OM-2500 you will see all the schematics and manual pages come up in an image search.  Amplifier geeks will love to look at the circuit involved here.  Perhaps a better choice might have been to use the Ameritrion type plate choke.  But maybe at 3KW it would not hold up?


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W1QJ on April 06, 2015, 04:28:15 AM
One more thing, while you are googling images of the OM-2500 tank circuit, then go ahead and look at images of the Alpha 8410 tank circuit and then see if you can find images of the Chinese HF-2013.  HUH?  Who is copying who? You tell me.


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KG6AMW on April 06, 2015, 07:31:57 AM
It always seems to be the same story with U S hams - buy cheap, rave for awhile and then complain bitterly when it fails.     


Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: KM1H on April 07, 2015, 03:39:25 PM
Quote
QE, no, in fact it is the 160 meter position.

Which is a lot more common than 10M on many amps except on the SB-220 which is usually an assembly alignment issue. CBers also take out their share.

If it isnt a B+ issue then it is from corona and a brass washer over the contact will likely eliminate it. See the AL-80A from the 80's where it was first used that I know of. Nothing new here folks; I use the same idea to retrofit NCL-2000's, Clipperton L's, various Amp Supply, and other amps that have identical 160M padder problems.




Title: RE: A Chinese Amp
Post by: W3RSW on April 08, 2015, 05:52:04 AM
One thing's for sure looking at the form/function of these central partition divided amplifiers, band switching PI-L network materials design, uP circuits, and all.

I'll bet Alpha rues the day they contracted out the 99 production to Bulgaria.

--Showing up now in discounted products, M&A ownership exchanges, dropping of models serviced, etc.  It looks like only a matter of time now until expiration.  :-[

Seemingly absolute corporate fixation in bringing a high power, automated tuner to market isn't helping either. Yes it wil be spectacular, but with some  "degradation down to  US  legal  limit " of key components and features will be instantly copied worldwide at half the price.  They've done a lot of expensive trial and error research in getting a high power/high SWR, but non twin lead tuner to work.   ...as though the remaining 100 ft. of hammy ham bone's coax won't negate all the effort getting up the tower or out to bake the balun on the off-center-fed wires.

Amazing that Alpha had to make a major redesign, apparently forgetting that for minimum capacitance in a 'L' or later 'T' circuit that variable caps had to have very short lead lengths.  But hey, I sure like that back-lit knob.  ;D. Curious how many pre-orders they've gotten.
Well I have to say, if the tuner helps save them, then more power to them.

It is gorgeous.
http://www.rfconcepts.com/dream-tuner-development-news/