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eHam Forums => Digital => Topic started by: K4EZD on January 25, 2013, 07:24:09 AM



Title: JT-65 Observation
Post by: K4EZD on January 25, 2013, 07:24:09 AM
I am new to JT65 and had my 24 foot ground mounted vertical lowered (with the DXE tilt mount) due to the wind but wanted to see if my signal would get out anyway.  So I tuned the lowered vertical which was now a 24 foot horizontal  about 1 foot parallel with the ground and sent out a JT 65 CQ with 1 watt.  I did not have any responses but I checked on HamSpots.net and saw that my signal was copied from my east coast rig into SD, MT, AZ, and TX to name a few. I guess it shows the power of T65 to copy very weak signals.  Just wanted to share this. 


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: VA7CPC on January 25, 2013, 11:18:10 PM
I did a demonstration of JT65-HF to my local ham club.  We're in Vancouver BC.  The "antenna" was a 20m dipole, stretched over bushes 3' off the ground, and close to an aluminum-siding building.  We were running about 20 watts.

The signal was heard in New Zealand, according to reverse-beacon websites.  It's a really neat mode.

.            Charles


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: NK7Z on January 26, 2013, 06:41:48 AM
I am new to JT65 and had my 24 foot ground mounted vertical lowered (with the DXE tilt mount) due to the wind but wanted to see if my signal would get out anyway.  So I tuned the lowered vertical which was now a 24 foot horizontal  about 1 foot parallel with the ground and sent out a JT 65 CQ with 1 watt.  I did not have any responses but I checked on HamSpots.net and saw that my signal was copied from my east coast rig into SD, MT, AZ, and TX to name a few. I guess it shows the power of T65 to copy very weak signals.  Just wanted to share this. 
JT65 floors me with that sort of thing every time I use it...


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: VE3FMC on January 26, 2013, 12:40:29 PM
I love checking Ham Spots to see who is copying my JT65 signal. I sometimes turn the power down to 1 watts or less and call CQ. Sometimes no one answers but when I check my spots I am being copied! And it always amazes me the distances that I am covering with 1 watt or less.

For apartment dwellers and those with HOA restrictions I think JT65 would be a great mode for them to work. Sure there is no rag chewing involved but at least they would be making contacts around the world.

Today I worked another station in Ontario. He is located about 100 miles from me. Worked him on 12 meters. Had to be ground wave, I doubt there was any signal bouncing going on there.

I have been operating JT65 since the spring of 2011 and have well over 1600 Eqsl confirmations for this mode. Not everyone I work uses Eqsl, so I have likely logged over 2000 + contacts with JT65.

 I have a home brewed 2 element yagi up for 12 Meters. The beam is only 26 feet off the ground mounted on two sections of tower that are attached to the peak of my storage shed.

I was calling CQ on an afternoon when the band seemed to be dead. I had not heard on signal of any type on the band when I tuned up and down. I had the beam pointed SE ( I am in SW Ontario) and out of no where a ZL station appeared and answered my CQ. I could not see any trace on the waterfall or hear any of the transmission audio from the ZL. The contacted was completed with decent reports back and forth. I put that ZL's call on the cluster and guys came out of the woodwork to work him.

Simply put, this is an amazing mode and every day I see more and more stations appearing in the decode box. After using the mode as long as I have you get to know the calls, especially on 40 and 80 meters. And there are more and more hams who are now using this mode. When I first got started I did not see a lot of different calls on 40, now I see lots of different calls.

I have worked some guys on 4 or 5 different bands.

Hope to work you guys soon.
73, Rick VE3FMC


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: W6TGE on January 26, 2013, 02:44:04 PM
Well, I do not have any antennas up...yet. In fact all my rigs were in a spare bedroom. So, I installed the JT65 software and added my Call and Grid Square. OK, now what? So I brought my TS940SAT up to my computer (Jeeze that rig is heavy) and stuffed a hunk of wire into the antenna jack! Next I put the Computer Mic next to the rigs speaker and tuned 10M. I did not hear much of anything, but several stations decoded! So, I looked at my box of antenna stuff still packed from when we moved up here (Oregon) from CA and found a dipole that I must have cut to take it down from CA. It was now good for about 32MHZ! OK, found a 100' hunk of Coax and hung the dipole in an "L" 10 feet from the rig. I then connected my MC85 Mic to the rig and had a perfect "Air Interface". I called CQ on JT65 and only used about 10 watts as RF was getting into my Computer.

I got an answer from NM. Next JA came back to me. Then I played with an "L" on 15M and got KL8 in Denali.

I will put my antennas up again, but JT65 was fun for a quick "test". I guess the "test" was a success!


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: WD4ELG on January 26, 2013, 05:54:28 PM
5 watts from an FT817 to a Miracle Whip antenna mounted on the back of the rig. In my house in the bonus room/office. Working coast to coast on 20, and being heard in ZL land. I was not even expecting to make a QSO with this minimal setup, especially when it is all indoors. Incredible.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: VE3FMC on January 26, 2013, 07:47:12 PM
Next up, a SignaLink USB for your interface and you are good to go! I have had mine since Sept. 2007 and it has worked flawlessly from day one.

Copying Russian stations on 3.576 right now and I have never heard a Russian on 75 phone in the 20 years I have been a ham. Not with my low 80 meter dipole.

Well, I do not have any antennas up...yet. In fact all my rigs were in a spare bedroom. So, I installed the JT65 software and added my Call and Grid Square. OK, now what? So I brought my TS940SAT up to my computer (Jeeze that rig is heavy) and stuffed a hunk of wire into the antenna jack! Next I put the Computer Mic next to the rigs speaker and tuned 10M. I did not hear much of anything, but several stations decoded! So, I looked at my box of antenna stuff still packed from when we moved up here (Oregon) from CA and found a dipole that I must have cut to take it down from CA. It was now good for about 32MHZ! OK, found a 100' hunk of Coax and hung the dipole in an "L" 10 feet from the rig. I then connected my MC85 Mic to the rig and had a perfect "Air Interface". I called CQ on JT65 and only used about 10 watts as RF was getting into my Computer.

I got an answer from NM. Next JA came back to me. Then I played with an "L" on 15M and got KL8 in Denali.

I will put my antennas up again, but JT65 was fun for a quick "test". I guess the "test" was a success!


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: W6TGE on January 27, 2013, 11:49:34 AM
Yes, but I wanted to wait to buy the USB interface to see how it all went. When I put my antenna(s) up I will do that. Still, the "air interface" proved it would work without spending anything.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: AE5J on January 28, 2013, 07:16:44 AM
I too am constantly amazed at how many folks can hear my little FT817 and very modest antennas. For me, being "hearing challenged", JT65A has been a real blessing - as are all the digital modes. I sometimes even go down to 160m and have made contacts extending as far as the east and west coast from my QTH in Texas!


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: WA6MJE on February 01, 2013, 05:56:50 PM
My HOA has antenna restrictions that keep me in a very low profile. But, since I started using JT-65, the lack of quality antennas no longer seems to matter.  I have worked DX across the world from hidden mobile whips and 30 watts.  I have tried other modes including CW but keep coming back to JT-65 as the mode that is the equalizer for me.  If my signals are heard from Moscow to South Africa, then all I need is to wait for more DX opportunities to come my way.  All other modes and my HOA forced limits become barriers.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on February 02, 2013, 03:41:39 AM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: VE3FMC on February 02, 2013, 12:27:01 PM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

Others might say no you do not need a SignaLink USB. I say get one. it makes operating so simple. You can now order the USB model with a plug in module for most of the popular radios. It just plugs into the board on the SignaLink USB, no messing with the tiny wires from pin to pin on the board.

I have had my SingaLink USB since Sept. 2007, no problems with it at all.

What radio do you own?


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: W6TGE on February 02, 2013, 12:56:57 PM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

Read my post, above, regarding my "air interface".   :D

This is a no cost way to see what you can copy...and even try a cq with a 2nd mic (and more than a hunk of wire)! I connected a 10M dipole in an "L" config. It worked so well, that I made one for 15M. Of course, I will buy a real interface, but wanted to see if it worked at all!


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: KG6AF on February 02, 2013, 04:43:59 PM
next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

One of the things that makes JT65A operation easier and more enjoyable is a processor that's fast enough to decode the past minute's signals in a second or two.  The faster the processing, the more time you have to decide what to do before the start of the next minute.  Make sure that the cheap netbook you have your eye on has enough oomph to decode signals quickly.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on February 03, 2013, 03:14:15 AM
next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

One of the things that makes JT65A operation easier and more enjoyable is a processor that's fast enough to decode the past minute's signals in a second or two.  The faster the processing, the more time you have to decide what to do before the start of the next minute.  Make sure that the cheap netbook you have your eye on has enough oomph to decode signals quickly.

when you say FAST ENOUGH can you quantify that?  running WIN7 is pretty fast and stable. thinking 2.5ghz multicore processor is a minimal? 


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on February 03, 2013, 03:29:14 AM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

Read my post, above, regarding my "air interface".   :D

This is a no cost way to see what you can copy...and even try a cq with a 2nd mic (and more than a hunk of wire)! I connected a 10M dipole in an "L" config. It worked so well, that I made one for 15M. Of course, I will buy a real interface, but wanted to see if it worked at all!

well looks like i will try JT65 on 10 meters (have that rig just collecting dust)  that is available to me as a tech license. will try to find the link to the software being typically used. good suggestion about just airgap monitoring, to just see what can be heard. you all are making me think this is some miracle mode that works on most bands regardless of the rf noise floor.   is it truly that functional?  or do i really need an open band (and my general ticket) to get it running?

am getting my general ticket regardless, and will have an HF radio soon as i find the right one for me.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: VE3FMC on February 03, 2013, 06:58:22 AM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

Read my post, above, regarding my "air interface".   :D

This is a no cost way to see what you can copy...and even try a cq with a 2nd mic (and more than a hunk of wire)! I connected a 10M dipole in an "L" config. It worked so well, that I made one for 15M. Of course, I will buy a real interface, but wanted to see if it worked at all!

well looks like i will try JT65 on 10 meters (have that rig just collecting dust)  that is available to me as a tech license. will try to find the link to the software being typically used. good suggestion about just airgap monitoring, to just see what can be heard. you all are making me think this is some miracle mode that works on most bands regardless of the rf noise floor.   is it truly that functional?  or do i really need an open band (and my general ticket) to get it running?

am getting my general ticket regardless, and will have an HF radio soon as i find the right one for me.

You can download the JT65 software here               http://iz4czl.ucoz.com/index/0-28

You will also need Dimension 4 which is a program that syncs the computer clock with a government time server. It is very important to keep the CPU clock synced with JT65 or you will not be able to decode or make contacts if the clock is off. Download that here http://iz4czl.ucoz.com/index/0-28

I have Dimension 4 set to sync the clock every 2 minutes.

You will need some sort of interface. What radio do you currently own?

And JT65 is not a miracle mode. If 10 meters is not open you will not make contacts. the mode is no different than any other mode, you need propagation to make contacts.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on February 03, 2013, 09:14:00 AM
VE3FMC - so would likely need some propegation prediction software based on the typically openings for RF in HF, and also some propegation reporting logs based on beacons, and on what is heard.

radio is a ten meter PRESIDENT HR2000 old radio.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: KG6AF on February 03, 2013, 10:08:20 AM
next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

One of the things that makes JT65A operation easier and more enjoyable is a processor that's fast enough to decode the past minute's signals in a second or two.  The faster the processing, the more time you have to decide what to do before the start of the next minute.  Make sure that the cheap netbook you have your eye on has enough oomph to decode signals quickly.

when you say FAST ENOUGH can you quantify that?  running WIN7 is pretty fast and stable. thinking 2.5ghz multicore processor is a minimal? 

Unfortunately, I can't say, because I have only a couple of data points.  My Pentium 4 3GHz machine running XP takes perhaps 6 seconds to decode, whereas my 4-core, i7 laptop running W7 x64 takes about a second.  Running JT65A on the i7 laptop is easy, whereas running it on the P4 machine isn't a lot of fun.  If I were buying a machine today, I'd want at least an i5 processor, which is not to say that you couldn't get away with less.

I doubt that the number of cores directly affects the operation of JT65-HF itself.  However, most of us are running more than one program on the machine that runs our JT-65 application--I run about a half-dozen--and multiple cores are a big help for that.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: W6TGE on February 03, 2013, 01:15:51 PM
people you are making me smile.   this is exactly the news i wanted to hear. am in an apartment and will need to settle for no external antenna, and low power, and RF noise from neighbors. if i can do JT-65 with all those restrictions. life will be awesome.

first goal is just functionality with a cheap radio.  suppose i should get a signalink device?

next goal is mobile functionality. likely will need a cheap netbook.  fun fun

Read my post, above, regarding my "air interface".   :D

This is a no cost way to see what you can copy...and even try a cq with a 2nd mic (and more than a hunk of wire)! I connected a 10M dipole in an "L" config. It worked so well, that I made one for 15M. Of course, I will buy a real interface, but wanted to see if it worked at all!

well looks like i will try JT65 on 10 meters (have that rig just collecting dust)  that is available to me as a tech license. will try to find the link to the software being typically used. good suggestion about just airgap monitoring, to just see what can be heard. you all are making me think this is some miracle mode that works on most bands regardless of the rf noise floor.   is it truly that functional?  or do i really need an open band (and my general ticket) to get it running?

am getting my general ticket regardless, and will have an HF radio soon as i find the right one for me.

Well, you sure do not need ANY license to just see what you can hear on 14076, 21076, 28076. I started with just a hunk of wire. Noise level has not hurt me at all, but if 10M is not open, it is just not open...but listen and try this link to see if 10M is open.

http://jt65.w6cqz.org/receptions.php

Also, I got JT65HF software...

http://iz4czl.ucoz.com/index/0-28

One thing you need is to be sure your computer clock is accurate, but I found mine could be off just to monitor.

Look for D4...or Dimension 4 for that. All of this is free.

***UPDATE***
I guess I posted the same as others, but the above receptions link can show who is on what band. It will tell you if 10M is open or not.



Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: AE5J on February 06, 2013, 05:45:20 PM
Maybe someone mentioned this, but the PSK reporter site (here: http://pskreporter.info/ (http://pskreporter.info/)  ) is easily much more valuable than the old beacon method. Go to the MAP page. You can declutter the map by examining each band of interest. You can see a graphic representation of which bands are open and to where. What you cannot always see, if there are not many hams on in your vicinity, is how the propagation is from your QTH.

I will say this about JT65. I have worked all over the world running 2.5 watts and an OCF dipole and I have done so on almost every band. I have even made contacts in the US coast to coast on 160m using an end fed antenna.

I used to think my beloved CW was the ultimate DX mode because I could work very weak signals and be heard with very modest power levels. JT65 puts CW to shame in those regards. I have worked stations that could not be heard or seen on the waterfall and were -24db below the noise floor. Just bear in mind that it isn't a rag chew mode. Too slow for that. But for anything else it is stellar.

Forgot to mention this. A multi core computer will make JT65 much more enjoyable. It isn't an absolute necessity, but it really does help. I use a Win 7 Pro I-Core 3 laptop which is several years old. Works wonderfully.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: WB0FDJ on February 09, 2013, 10:59:27 AM
Yep this is a mode just made for qrp use. I just worked a JD7 on 10 meters running 5 watts. He was -6 into MN and I got a -16 report. My first thought after logging was, "I should have tried 2 watts!"

Many advantages: there's software for Windows, Mac and Linux. When running linux my CPU was an Atom processor......anemic but worked well with the WSJT suite. You don't need a $5000 rig, the most fun contacts have been on my FT-817. Compromise antennas will work, I've used my MFJ-1786 mag loop, indoors, for many JT-65 contacts. I wouldn't want this to be my only mode, but it's something to have in your toolkit, especially if you run qrp or have a compromise station.

73s DE WB0FDJ Doc


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on February 22, 2013, 10:41:05 AM
WB0FDJ - thanks for the encouragement.  almost sold my 10 meter rig, but the EBAY gods said I could not because its NOT ALLOWED to be sold (EBAY is being stupid and rejecting all 10 meter radios).  Thinking thats a blessing as I can run JT65 over 10 meters.

Just have to try.  Now have to find out if I can use a SIGNALINK to activate the PTT on this radio.

At least I can listen with a microphone and see if I can decode.



Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: WB0FDJ on February 24, 2013, 01:47:17 PM
Well if this caveman can do it......

Having a dedicated 10 meter radio would be a blessing for monitoring openings on the band. While up in my shack/mancave I commonly set the rig to 10 JT65 and let the decoder run while I surf the web, do email, etc.

I see I made a typo on my last post. It was a ZD7 off the coast of Africa. At times he was the only signal on the band and my first QSO with that entity. Still wished I'd tried the 2 watts .

The Signalink is versatile. I used mine for a while with an old Ten Tec Omni V, running a cable into the mike input and a simple audio cable from the headphone jack. It worked!

73 de WB0FDJ Doc


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: KO3D on March 01, 2013, 05:51:46 AM
Next up, a SignaLink USB for your interface and you are good to go! I have had mine since Sept. 2007 and it has worked flawlessly from day one.

Copying Russian stations on 3.576 right now and I have never heard a Russian on 75 phone in the 20 years I have been a ham. Not with my low 80 meter dipole.

SignaLink USB is absolutely the best money I have spent in AR. 80m JT65 is incredible, I'm getting contacts from countries I've never even monitored on phone down there. I only wish stateside stations would back down the power for US contacts so more DX can get through.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: N1KTJ on March 06, 2013, 03:09:52 AM
Next up, a SignaLink USB for your interface and you are good to go! I have had mine since Sept. 2007 and it has worked flawlessly from day one.

Copying Russian stations on 3.576 right now and I have never heard a Russian on 75 phone in the 20 years I have been a ham. Not with my low 80 meter dipole.

SignaLink USB is absolutely the best money I have spent in AR. 80m JT65 is incredible, I'm getting contacts from countries I've never even monitored on phone down there. I only wish stateside stations would back down the power for US contacts so more DX can get through.

reading that some stations are getting warned about too much power, and being asked to make corrections.


Title: RE: JT-65 Observation
Post by: W5DQ on March 06, 2013, 09:39:51 AM
reading that some stations are getting warned about too much power, and being asked to make corrections.

Warned by whom?????? What's the penalty being imposed???

I agree that power should be held to the minimum to get the job done but there are times when I hear a station at -20dB and they appear not to hear me when I am running 20W into a 2 el Force 12 C3S. I turn up the power to 30 and try. If I get a reponse, and my report is high, say -10 to -12dB, I can assume I can slide the power back down to 25W but usually I leave it there at 30W for that QSO. I have had to go as high as 45W to make some JT65 QSOs but usually 15-25W is more than enough. I have tinkered with using 5 to 10W but find that that level doesn't get solid results for some of the DX I am chasing on JT65. My default starting level is 20W for all QSOs.

Gene W5DQ