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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: WA4D on February 03, 2013, 02:55:14 PM



Title: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 03, 2013, 02:55:14 PM
As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 03, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA

I'm a truck driver and have been to both the Getty and MOMA. (and yes, I know what MOMA means) Occupation does not necessarily equate to education or intelligence.
  Your remarks are very condescending and I'm sure you will get plenty of responses. A radio
that is as expensive as the TS-990 will sound no different than any other radio on the other end
of a qso. What people wish to spend their money on is their business. Even if they cannot afford it.  Maybe you should form an elite Amateur forum that only wealthy people such as yourself
can participate in. That way, you won't have to lower yourself to read the remarks of the masses!
 ::)

james
WD5GWY
   


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KE3WD on February 03, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
Check out what the Collins KWM-2 cost when it was the new kid on the block, then adjust for inflation in today's dollars. 

It is good to have both Minis and Ferraris and all the other models and types in between all on the market at the same time. 

73


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 03, 2013, 04:30:05 PM
Yes, James we agree.  Though few truck drivers go to the Getty or MOMA. (What kind of truck do you drive?)

My remarks are condescending only to those in denial. Class awareness often offends those that are not above the middle. Why? Because so many aspire to be what they are not.

Your idea for an "elite" forum is a good one!
 
 As you read the moaning posts of those who can't afford the Kenwood
 TS990 "for years to come" one wonders why do these people comment on
what they cannot have???
 There is a Maseratti dealer literally walking distance from my front
door, but I don't go over there and drool over what I cannot have.

 I'd like to see a closed off section of the forum that required say, a
 Credit Score of 650 or better and a net worth of $500K Plus to join and post graduate education.
(Anti intellectualism is wide spread in Ham radio, but formal education does matter.)
 
This would be an"elite" members only section as you so insightfully suggest..
That way these "superior" members of the forum wouldn't have to be subjected to
the constant wail of the lesserclasses.

 Perhaps give the unqualified masses "Read Only" privileges so they could
 learn from their "betters". Of course the Forum "Elites" could enter
 the low end portion of the forum and interact as they wish and yet be
 able to return to the refuge of the "Elite" section as needed.

Since verification of such credentials would require background checks, the individual seeking membership
in the Elite Forum would have to pay for backend costs. A pittance for people of means!

Great Idea! Assuming you'll be on the outside looking in,  I'll still say "Hi James" from inside the elite forum. No snob here!!!

Thanks for the comment.  Cheers from LA
Mike/wa4d


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: AC2EU on February 03, 2013, 04:42:18 PM
Quote
Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown.

ROFLMAO!!!   ::)

I'm just curious about what you do for a living that has perched you so high above us mere mortals!

It sounds like you are more interested in your perceived stature than anything of substance.
So far you, the superior wordsmith, have failed to make the case for this radio other than saying that because you can afford to buy one and some others can not, makes it worth the money. As a status symbol maybe, but as a practical matter, I seriously doubt it. Your Mercedes doesn't make you a better driver either!

I know some "audiophiles", but you are the first "radiophile" I have ever come across.

Jesssh!




Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: W5KAP on February 03, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA


What a troll. I seriously thought we, as a society , were moving beyond such bunk. And your post was pure bunk (I'm being nice)

De W5KAP


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 03, 2013, 07:12:56 PM
Yes, James we agree.  Though few truck drivers go to the Getty or MOMA. (What kind of truck do you drive?)

My remarks are condescending only to those in denial. Class awareness often offends those that are not above the middle. Why? Because so many aspire to be what they are not.

Your idea for an "elite" forum is a good one!
 
 As you read the moaning posts of those who can't afford the Kenwood
 TS990 "for years to come" one wonders why do these people comment on
what they cannot have???
 There is a Maseratti dealer literally walking distance from my front
door, but I don't go over there and drool over what I cannot have.

 I'd like to see a closed off section of the forum that required say, a
 Credit Score of 650 or better and a net worth of $500K Plus to join and post graduate education.
(Anti intellectualism is wide spread in Ham radio, but formal education does matter.)
 
This would be an"elite" members only section as you so insightfully suggest..
That way these "superior" members of the forum wouldn't have to be subjected to
the constant wail of the lesserclasses.

 Perhaps give the unqualified masses "Read Only" privileges so they could
 learn from their "betters". Of course the Forum "Elites" could enter
 the low end portion of the forum and interact as they wish and yet be
 able to return to the refuge of the "Elite" section as needed.

Since verification of such credentials would require background checks, the individual seeking membership
in the Elite Forum would have to pay for backend costs. A pittance for people of means!

Great Idea! Assuming you'll be on the outside looking in,  I'll still say "Hi James" from inside the elite forum. No snob here!!!

Thanks for the comment.  Cheers from LA
Mike/wa4d

Mike, I'm glad you like my idea of an elite forum. You should take it further and develop
and maintain a separate website from this one. That way, you have complete control of
content, and can keep out the "lower classes". In fact, it could be "Invitation Only".
Credit checks alone would not be enough. What with internet fraud being so rampant these
days, you will have to take further measures to avoid the riffraff of the Amateur Radio community.  You could charge an even larger annual fee that way, to offset your costs to maintain such a website. You'd be the talk of the internet and the Amateur Radio community. (even more than you already are)  ;)
 As for me, I think I'll stick to the more lower class websites and forums. Not because I would not
want to associate with others such as yourself, but, because I have some self respect and would not want to sully my, otherwise stellar, reputation!  ;D
james
WD5GWY

Oh, as for what kind of truck I drive, it's a 2007 Kenworth. The company I work for builds and maintains oil and gas well drilling sites. My part is really quite simple, (in keeping with my low class status) I drive a rock truck, delivering rock(mostly roadbase) to those sites.
In other words, my company and I, help in the process of getting the Natural Gas and Oil, that you and millions of others, take for granted each and every day.
  
  
 


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KI4DYA on February 03, 2013, 07:47:46 PM
Seriously, guys.  A quick Google search and you'll realize he's just a troll.  A pretty amateur one at that.

Edit:  And you'd think an $8000 radio would have a better proofreader for their ad copy.  If, in fact, it shows its 'metal' during a contest something is horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 03, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
But of course You drive a Kenworth James!  Excellent!

And you display imaginative ideas for the "elite" forum!
But please James, isn't it a bit much to wall it off ?

 I mean the President spoke  in his Inaugural speech wanting
to reduce "inequality'.  You know, we're all supposed to be alike,
make the same amount of money, have good homes, free education
and health care and no suffering. I mean in this climate James
your proposals could be construed as not working toward
the President's warm hearted goal.
Let us work together to
make for a more equal world. I'm willing to give some old coax cable to a new Ham.
What say you James?

I do look forward to continued exchanges with you James. Your fertile mind
is not what I would have expected from a Truck driver. And one of culture at that!

Warm regards and with all humility,
mike


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WN2C on February 03, 2013, 07:56:57 PM
You know Mike, I have been looking for a good TS 520 but I have found they too are getting expensive.  I think I'll stick with what I got for now.  After all it works at the moment and like you (or was it someone else) said, you can't tell on the other end.  Besides, I already have one mortgage and don't need another for a radio.

Rick  wn2c


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 03, 2013, 08:07:36 PM
Rick...

Understood. What does a 520 cost these days? $250? $300?

I bought one of the last 830's before they were discontinued (what mid 80's?) and didn't even open the box for a year. in my mind, it was  the classic Post KWM-II era radio.  Surely the biggest selling pair of 6146's xcvr of all time. My intent was to keep it for "all time".

Like a fool, I sold it for some reason. And I've regretted it ever since.

Please know, that in your hardship, and journey Rick, you may reach out to me for comfort at any time. And know that I will answer your on air call, whether you're on a 990 or an SB-101.

Warmest regards,
mike


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WN2C on February 03, 2013, 08:24:43 PM
You know, I was looking at both of these radios (was actually looking for a 102) and also the Kenwood 599 Twins on flEaBay.  Couldn't believ the prices for any of this stuff.  I too regret selling the 520 and the 830 I once owned.  I appreciate your willingness to respond to my on air call from my rinky dink,  lowpower, shabby antenna station.

Oh and by the way, you need to look at the classifieds more often to really see the prices some folk are trying to get for some old stuff.

Rick  wn2c


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: N0JI on February 03, 2013, 09:31:56 PM
I guess that I don't need a TS-990 since I have had the good sense to hang on to my TS-830s.

It does interest me that one would think that spending a mere $8000 to own the absolute top of the line equipment for your chosen hobby would somehow place you among the elites.  By that sad measure, the MOMA should be overrun by leather clad Harley riders, Saturday night dirt track stock car drivers, more than a few motocross racers, and plenty of overly tanned boating enthusiasts.  I guess that it would do no harm.  Somebody rooted in reality should bear witness that half the stuff in there bears a more than passing resemblance to a child's crafty scrawling displayed on the family refrigerator.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: G3RZP on February 04, 2013, 01:52:58 AM
WA4D said:

>Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential.<

'It's' is an abreviation for 'it is', and is not a possesive apostrophe.

I don't have a problem working DX now, and I doubt very much if another rig would make any difference - you don't need a lot of money, but you do need operator competence. That's why I only need one country for DXCC Honor Roll #1.





Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 04, 2013, 06:57:33 AM
Thank You Peter for your grammar correction.  Writing is hard.

Good luck on your final "catch"


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KE6EE on February 04, 2013, 08:53:30 AM
"That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough..."

Am I the only one who found Mike's (of LA) post a clever bit of tongue-in-cheek? I found it a laugh-inducing send-up.

That said, most forum post interpretations seem to overlook the possibility of tongue-in-cheek.  ;D

The abundant use of smileys usually helps.

Mike (of Oakland)


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 04, 2013, 09:23:57 AM
"That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough..."

Am I the only one who found Mike's (of LA) post a clever bit of tongue-in-cheek? I found it a laugh-inducing send-up.

That said, most forum post interpretations seem to overlook the possibility of tongue-in-cheek.  ;D

The abundant use of smileys usually helps.

Mike (of Oakland)

No doubt! But, what fun would it be, if it were not for the likes of people like Mike? (the other Mike)
He does not make vile threats or anything like that.
 One thing he does point out, is the fact that people complain about things like the 990 that they
never can afford or may not even want to. And his point is, why comment or complain if you will never actually own one? But, he does forget one thing, we are all human and have thoughts, good or bad......or even indifferent, about all sorts of things in life. Expecting such a huge variety of people to not make comments, is bit on the silly side to me. After all, this is a public forum and
they do allow quite a bit of freedom of speech. (within reason of course)
 Who knows? One day I might even purchase a FT-990!!!  :o
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K8AXW on February 04, 2013, 09:36:39 AM
4D:  I am truly IMPRESSED!  You sure have learned a lot of words. 


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 04, 2013, 09:44:58 AM
But of course You drive a Kenworth James!  Excellent!

And you display imaginative ideas for the "elite" forum!
But please James, isn't it a bit much to wall it off ?

 I mean the President spoke  in his Inaugural speech wanting
to reduce "inequality'.  You know, we're all supposed to be alike,
make the same amount of money, have good homes, free education
and health care and no suffering. I mean in this climate James
your proposals could be construed as not working toward
the President's warm hearted goal.
Let us work together to
make for a more equal world. I'm willing to give some old coax cable to a new Ham.
What say you James?

I do look forward to continued exchanges with you James. Your fertile mind
is not what I would have expected from a Truck driver. And one of culture at that!

Warm regards and with all humility,
mike
Mike,
  I drive a Kenworth because that is what my employer has available. And it is a FAST truck and
quite capable of costing me (and my fellow employees) money should I not pay close attention
to my speed!  :D
 As for "walling off" the Elite forum, I don't see how that would interfere with our president's
goals. If his equality goals as you mentioned were truly equal, we would all be riding in limos
and jets. (Paid for by the taxpayers of course) Especially, since that is his current living conditions.
BUT, he has never invited me to Camp David, and I'm fairly certain that he won't. So, given his
example, the likelihood of everyone living in a truly equal society is pretty poor. Besides all that,
what joy in life would there be if everything was handed to you and you had no real purpose in
life beyond taking with no effort on your part? That is why, (to me) Socialism has been and will always be, a failed experiment. Our country was built on the premise that we all have an equal
"opportunity" in life, and the chance, thru our own resourcefulness, to achieve our personal goals.
 That is why you should create your own website, for your elite class of Amateur Radio operators. That way, when the up and coming masses, move up in society, they will be better prepared to
enter into your elite group. In other words, they work towards a goal and either achieve it or
at least attempt it. Handing it over with no effort would be of no value.
  As for donating old coax to a new ham, how about mentoring instead? You have heard of Elmering, haven't you? What better way to do your part to improve the quality of Amateur operators, than to guide some new individual along the path of enlightenment?
 Of course, that would mean coming out of your "walled off" forum and mingling with the lower
classes!!!  :o  But, I'm sure you could soldier on and be successful in such an endeavor!
james
WD5GWY


  Edit:
  Mike, I just did a quick search on you..........very interesting indeed!! You already have your own website. Now, all you have to do is build the forum you want and administer it!! I find that some of your Twitter comments are interesting as well !!
(see what happens when a truck driver has some time off!) ;D      


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KE6EE on February 04, 2013, 09:56:30 AM
Who knows? One day I might even purchase a FT-990!!!  :o
james
WD5GWY

Now you're talking! In 30 years, if the FT-990 is really a game-changer, it will be a favorite "boatanchor" just like a Collins S line is now, which "performs just as well" as the latest 2040 model computer-based, Altoid-tin-sized, solar-powered, knob-free, "pocket kilowatt" designed by the descendants of Elecraft.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 04, 2013, 10:01:26 AM
Who knows? One day I might even purchase a FT-990!!!  :o
james
WD5GWY

Now you're talking! In 30 years, if the FT-990 is really a game-changer, it will be a favorite "boatanchor" just like a Collins S line is now, which "performs just as well" as the latest 2040 model computer-based, Altoid-tin-sized, solar-powered, knob-free, "pocket kilowatt" designed by the descendants of Elecraft.

Couldn't you move the timetable for that "pocket killowatt" up a bit? In another 27 years, I may not be here. Or, just be sitting somewhere drooling on myself!!! ;D
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: AC2EU on February 04, 2013, 10:11:20 AM
At the end of the day, 'ol LA Mike may have accomplished his mission
I suspect that he was hired by an internet SEO company.  They "seed" forums and blogs in order to create buzz about a new product or web site. This one went a little "pear shaped",  but it still created hits on the product page!

I went to the site to see what it was. Didn't you guys do the same?
He bills himself as a "media professional"  and something called "MEWCOMM".

Did you notice that he didn't answer my original question about his affiliations?   ???





Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 04, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
At the end of the day, 'ol LA Mike may have accomplished his mission
I suspect that he was hired by an internet SEO company.  They "seed" forums and blogs in order to create buzz about a new product or web site. This one went a little "pear shaped",  but it still created hits on the product page!

I went to the site to see what it was. Didn't you guys do the same?
He bills himself as a "media professional"  and something called "MEWCOMM".

Did you notice that he didn't answer my original question about his affiliations?   ???




Yep, I noticed that too! Reading the Google hits on Mike is quite an eye opener. I do believe
I have heard the "dawg" on the air before. But, usually when I hear that sort of drivel, I just
spin the dial. However, these few posts here have been very entertaining and that is why I have
continued to respond to his posts. He has remained civil, (at least in this thread) and as long
as it stays that way, I will have no problems sparring with him.
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: N3DF on February 04, 2013, 10:58:47 AM
Classic troll post.  Content-free.  Intended only to provoke. 


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KE3WD on February 04, 2013, 12:19:57 PM
Well, if such is the case, you gotta give him his due, for the ploy has worked. 


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: NQ2N on February 04, 2013, 03:56:16 PM
I seldom see such a compilation of logical fallacies and gross stereotypes in one post but WA4D seems to have accomplished it all with this one.  Congratulations are in order and as well as the nomination for “troll post of the year”.   ;D


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: N0SYA on February 04, 2013, 05:38:37 PM
Working class hams of the world, unite! Rise up to defeat the borjoizy ham elitists and all their running dogs!


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 04, 2013, 06:32:50 PM
Working class hams of the world, unite! Rise up to defeat the borjoizy ham elitists and all their running dogs!
Now, THAT I like!!  :D
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: TANAKASAN on February 05, 2013, 09:24:04 AM
Well, let's see, three different topics in 'Misc' from WA4D all singing the praises of the TS-990, it looks like the check arrived in the mail.

As for the "achievers, the educated and the affluent" thing, I score two out of three so it looks like I won't be getting a TS-990 real soon now. My father was not an educated man, he was a plasterer rather than a truck driver, but he made damn sure that by the time I was seven I could read and write Hebrew and English to a standard good enough to make the Rabbii smile. He also made sure that my brother and I headed off for the library every Monday night after school because he wanted to make sure his sons didn't end up like him.

I have no desire to own a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari (or a Lamborghini for that matter) but if I see one with the hood up I'm going to look inside because high quality engineering in any form interests me. The same applies to the high-end HF rigs but whilst I might want a look inside the TS-990 I sure don't want to own one, that rig is ugly. IF I had the antennas and the location to justify it then I would purchase an Icom IC-7800 but my education, my achievements in life and my affluence doesn't enter into it.

Tanakasan


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WA4D on February 05, 2013, 06:53:58 PM
Not enough Dad's like yours any more Tanakasan.  Discipline and Values are fading in the US.  Divorce rates are at new records in the US and the absence of a father in the house is a huge issue for some groups.

You say,
IF I had the antennas and the location to justify it then I would purchase an Icom IC-7800 but my education, my achievements in life and my affluence doesn't enter into it.

I'll have to disagree with your comment. Your persona indeed your pride in your Father's guidance are a reflection of those traits. They all influence who you are and shape and mold you just as they do the vast majority of people. That you wouldn't buy this particular radio, is a decision you've made as a result of your intellectual depth, your beliefs and values. And one might speculate your refusal to let "emotion" cloud your judgement. You characterize the 990 as an "ugly" radio. In your view it is. This is a result of your education and perhaps aesthetic preferences or even a denied bias within. (I don't know). What I do know is we are the sum of our experiences and make choices on that basis. And education, achievements and the resulting affluence (or lack thereof) are who you are.

I'm sure the Rabbi is smiling.

BTW I haven't received any renumeration for JVC/Kenwood. Why would I?  I'm enthusiastic and believe it's an innovative rig.  That said, I find the whole concept of "Big Iron" radio to be passé and even vulgar.  This idea that you put a pile of rf gear on a table and hang unsightly wires and various ornaments outside your home to  talk with middle aged to elderly men is a ridiculous concept.  The 990 calls  like a dream to the kid that learned Morse in 1965 on an ARC-5 (ok the 7800 if you prefer)-- but then you turn it on and hear the same  meaningless drivel that has defined ham radio for decades. Stick to CW!

Cheers from LA


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: N0YXB on February 05, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
No need to turn on the radio for meaningless drivel, there is plenty in this thread.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KK0G on February 06, 2013, 07:57:21 AM
Jeez, can nobody take a joke anymore!? I clearly saw the original post as a tongue in cheek which obviously slipped by those that took such offense. If this truly offends you then I highly suggest you not come to my my workplace for employment, we sling insults back and forth everyday that make this thread pale in comparison. Grow a little thicker skin.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: W1JKA on February 06, 2013, 09:17:53 AM
  Come on guys give the trolls and soap box orators a break,we all occasionally need a little comic relief, just relate it to the Super Bowl ads-mostly BS and a vain attempt to get your attention.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K5TED on February 08, 2013, 07:57:11 PM
8k is a good chunk of cash, but not out of the realm of what many folks spend on hobbies. Same price as a base Yamaha Waverunner. A little more than a new Moto Guzzi Stone. Half the price of a small travel trailer. $666.66/mo for a year. $22/day for a year. Three 70" HDTV sets. A top of the line Trek mountain bike. Two Winchester 101 Diamond Grade shotguns. A Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III with decent tripod and case. A Celestron CGE PRO 1100 HD.

Some guy ride a Sporty. Some guys ride a Street Glide. Some guys ride Hondas. Some guys don't ride.

It's all good.



Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WB6DGN on February 10, 2013, 07:42:06 PM
Quote
Jeez, can nobody take a joke anymore!? I clearly saw the original post as a tongue in cheek which obviously slipped by those that took such offense.

Naw!  It didn't slip by me but you gotta' realize that he just sounds so much like the Romneys that I just couldn't help getting a bit hostile all over again.  I had thought that that comedy act (or, was it a tragedy?) was over and done with way back in November!  Just kind of a disappointment, I guess!
Tom


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K2TTM on February 13, 2013, 05:02:52 PM
Jeez, can nobody take a joke anymore!? I clearly saw the original post as a tongue in cheek which obviously slipped by those that took such offense. ........ Grow a little thicker skin.

I have to agree.  First of all, nobody is that condescending on purpose, not even people that are condescending.  Second, nobody is that condescending by accident either. 

That being said, wa4d is quite clever in that he's provoked a small firestorm (if such a thing is possible) with his original, and subsequent, missives. I have no doubt that was his intent.

I submit he's just a warped frustrated old man, to coin a phrase.

I actually find him and his ilk quite amusing.

Mike from New Yawk


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KD8W on February 14, 2013, 02:09:58 AM
As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA

I'm a truck driver and have been to both the Getty and MOMA. (and yes, I know what MOMA means) Occupation does not necessarily equate to education or intelligence.
  Your remarks are very condescending and I'm sure you will get plenty of responses. A radio
that is as expensive as the TS-990 will sound no different than any other radio on the other end
of a qso. What people wish to spend their money on is their business. Even if they cannot afford it.  Maybe you should form an elite Amateur forum that only wealthy people such as yourself
can participate in. That way, you won't have to lower yourself to read the remarks of the masses!
 ::)

james
WD5GWY
   

"hear hear..James, I agree with you!"


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: W1JKA on February 14, 2013, 04:28:06 AM
Entertainment forum ??

   A big E for for effort for the abilities of certain posters to express both their lack of technical knowledge and self perceived standing on the social/economic ladder and whose only outlet to prove themselves worthy appears to be a little known internet forum.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: AC2EU on February 14, 2013, 05:59:52 AM
"LA mike " is laughing all the way to the bank if he is paid by thread longevity.

 


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WX4O on February 16, 2013, 10:04:49 AM
What an absolutely arrogant bunch of crap.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: WD5GWY on February 16, 2013, 02:14:19 PM
What an absolutely arrogant bunch of crap.
Just as the OP intended it to be!
And as someone prior to your post pointed out, if he's getting paid in some manner for
bringing attention to the new 990, then he has succeeded quite well!
Actually, I think it was more fun and games than anything else. Certainly wasn't worth
getting upset over. And even though he used a high handed approach, one point he did
make is quite relevant in some way. Why complain about something you are unlikely never
to buy? Those that can justify buying such an expensive radio will, and those that cannot
won't. But, carrying on about it endlessly(bashing the radio over it's high price) seems to be
a waste of time. But, given that we are all human, it is not surprising.
Just something to ponder.  ;D
james
WD5GWY

Oh, and I would love to have one too! Along with a Flex 6700 whenever those show up!
(but, very unlikely to happen till either I win the lottery or the next big thing comes along
and kills the sale of those two rigs)

  


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K1CJS on February 18, 2013, 04:11:34 PM
....First of all, nobody is that condescending on purpose, not even people that are condescending.  Second, nobody is that condescending by accident either.  

That being said, wa4d is quite clever in that he's provoked a small firestorm (if such a thing is possible) with his original, and subsequent, missives. I have no doubt that was his intent.

I submit he's just a warped frustrated old man, to coin a phrase.

I actually find him and his ilk quite amusing.

This thread is just WA4D being WA4D.  As was said, he loves to shovel it just to see what can be provoked.  One thing for sure--he does bring chuckles...sometimes.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: KI4ENS on February 18, 2013, 04:13:14 PM
WA4D,

I do have some questions.  I have been to the art museums of NYC and elsewhere.  I have quite enjoyed them.  I was lucky to have a received an education via support of our government.  While I would not call myself affluent,  I could I suppose write a check for the TS-990 since I do not have to worry about sending kids to college.  I have worked in an EMC lab.  So I suppose I could be qualified to own a TS-990 (I admit,  I have not looked at the application).   However I have been looking at the high end Yaesu radios (The FT DX900 series looks nice).  Does that just make me nouveau riche instead?  Or since most likely I will just keep using my FT-897D,  can I just claim to be a hipster?

KI4ENS


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K7NSW on February 19, 2013, 02:54:03 PM
This is nothing new.  How long ago did the DX crowd annoint themselves as "the deserving" because of their wonderfulness which only they can describe?  I use all Ten-Tec gear and a GAP vertical ALL MADE IN AMERICA.  THAT puts me heads and shoulders above this guy.


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: N9AOP on February 19, 2013, 07:39:20 PM
I thought that this was supposed to be a hobby but sometimes I wonder.  There are those that have disposable income and they usually sit and read this stuff and seldom comment.  They are using the likes of Rhode & Schwarz or Harris.  Myself, I like the Harris Falcon.  These are all made in the  US of A.  A bit pricy but they do work.
Art, N9AOP


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: 2E0OZI on February 20, 2013, 02:43:19 AM
What do you mean some guys don't ride???  :o BTW I like the Stone, it will probably replace the Breva in 2014.  ;D


Title: RE: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent
Post by: K1DA on February 21, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
Just a troll, nothing more.