eHam

eHam Forums => Amplifiers => Topic started by: K3NRX on February 24, 2013, 04:42:21 PM



Title: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K3NRX on February 24, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
I was at a hamfest today, and I saw a nice compact RM Italy BLA 350 Amplifier for sale, brand new from a vendor in Lebanon, PA who made the trip to Pittsburgh for this small hamfest......When I asked the price, the dude told me $675.00.....Bearing in mind that this amp has only a 300w power output, my jaw dropped to the floor.....Can someone please tell me what the going price is for an amp that maxes out in the midpower ranges???.....I am finding it hard to believe that something with that low a power output could be so expensive......someone please verify.....Thanks....

Vince P
KA3NRX



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K7MH on February 24, 2013, 06:32:19 PM
For my money they are overpriced at $49.95.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: ZL4IV on February 24, 2013, 10:13:36 PM
The old rule was $1 per watt input. Labor cost to assemble this amp would be about the same as one twice the output. Labor may be about 50%.
QRP is expensive for power out. It is what it is.
ZL4IV


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K2OWK on February 24, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
$675.00 is an excellent price for this amp. It sells for $800.00 on Amazon. It is a QRP amp that requires 1 to 14 watts input for full power out, and covers 160 thru 10 meters with automatic band switching and VSWR protection. It has a built in power supply for 110/220/240 volts. How good is it I do not know. I have hear horror stories and good stories. I think one of the problems if I remember is it is not FCC type accepted.

If you want to check out the specs. Look it up on Amazon.

73s

K2OWK


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K3NRX on February 25, 2013, 03:56:47 AM
Yeah I saw the $800 price tag on-line.....then I put my eyeballs back in their sockets.....I am sorry, but for an amp that only puts out 300 watts max, those prices seem excessive.....perhaps I am naieve about this because I never owned an amp of any kind, but this is JMO, and I am sticking to it....

V
KA3NRX



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N4RSS on February 25, 2013, 06:40:49 AM
ten tec's 100 watt solid state amplifier lists for $785. 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KC4MOP on February 25, 2013, 07:21:15 AM
Going solid state and high power is outrageous. Even the Ameritron line of mobile amps is pretty high.
RM Italy doesn't have a good track record for clean amps anyway.
as seen on another thread.....This offering from TenTec, who I would trust a lot more than RM Italy

http://www.tentec.com/products/Model-418--160%252d6-Meter-Solid-State-Linear-Amplifier.html
A little more moola BUT!


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K5MF on February 25, 2013, 07:32:56 AM
Unfortunately, what you are starting to see in the effect of government policies.  Inflation is really kicking in now and the value of the dollar is falling all over the world.  This translates to higher prices for everything.  Be prepared it is only going to get worse.  For the general populus, the spending that is going on in Washington DC is pretty transparent.  They do a good job of cloaking it as helping out the regular Joe and punishing those evil rich people.  But the reality is that it is hurting everyone and is going to get a lot worse.  Be prepared to pay higher prices for everything in the comming year.  And I am talking about significantly higher.  The way we are headed, the good ole U.S.A. is going to be just another "also ran" nation.  It is said that the voting public is so ignorant they don't understand this. 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KC4MOP on February 25, 2013, 07:54:39 AM
Unfortunately, what you are starting to see in the effect of government policies.  Inflation is really kicking in now and the value of the dollar is falling all over the world.  This translates to higher prices for everything.  Be prepared it is only going to get worse.  For the general populus, the spending that is going on in Washington DC is pretty transparent.  They do a good job of cloaking it as helping out the regular Joe and punishing those evil rich people.  But the reality is that it is hurting everyone and is going to get a lot worse.  Be prepared to pay higher prices for everything in the comming year.  And I am talking about significantly higher.  The way we are headed, the good ole U.S.A. is going to be just another "also ran" nation.  It is said that the voting public is so ignorant they don't understand this. 
Thank You
 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB4QAA on February 25, 2013, 08:40:22 AM
Unfortunately, what you are starting to see in the effect of government policies.  Inflation is really kicking in now
Actually you are wrong. The inflation rate has been falling over the last year from 4% to under 2% for Feb 2013.  Inflation is lower than it was ten years ago, and lower than average before the 2008 crash.  You just don't know what you are talking about.

Quote
and the value of the dollar is falling all over the world. 
The Dollar = 0.75 Euro, today.  In 2009, it was THE SAME.  So, again, you are wrong.

Go peddle your panics and gloom and doom elsewhere, please.

BTW, For what it is I think the price of the RM amplifier is reasonable.  But is still an illegal CB amp.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K6AER on February 25, 2013, 09:48:11 AM
Tying the American dollar to the Euro is not a sign of how well the dollar is doing. Both are being devalued as a function of their buying power and quantitative easing (printing money). The American dollar, in buying power has lost more than 33% in the last 4 years. We print money and borrow to meet our finical obligations. We are spending more than we receive. Wish I cold print money legally.

We are now paying more than in interest than what it takes to operate the federal budget. Taking all the money from the rich will only run the government for 15 days. As a result the government is going to increase your taxes. Remember when Obama said you taxes will not go up! He lied. Taxes applied to any segment of the population increases their overhead and the additional cost is passed on to the consumer. Wither you pay more for an item or what you have is devalued due to inflation, it is still the same as a tax. It is a reduction of your net worth.

This applies to all products including hamster amplifiers.

Are you surprised that a 300 watt amplifier cost $800? You have to pay a talented engineer the same as any aerospace company. RF Technicians are paid at least $60K a year. Local city and states tax your inventory. employee medical is also huge profit eater. Your profit margins are low because hams still think about amplifier pricing from 30 years ago. Liability is also an issue especially with lethal voltages.

The BLA amplifier has two 50 volt MOSFET’s, low pass filters, auto band switching, microprocessor control, 50 volt switch mode power supply and will accept 1-15 watts from a QRP radio to putout 300 watts liner AB operation. Just because the company makes CB amps does not make their whole product line the same. Chevrolet makes the Volt (loser) and the ZR-1 Corvette (winner). You cannot compare one with the other. I might add my 1965 Corvette cost me $4700 used in 1971. The ZR-1 is $112,700 and change. Unfortunately, hams are still applying SB-200 (1971) pricing in 2013.

The quickest way to make a small fortune in ham radio is to start with a large fortune. Most hams have never tried to produce a product that for the most part is being sold to a population that doesn't want to learn the technical part of the hobby. Look in E-Ham under amplifiers, 85% of the ham radio amplifier manufactures listed in are no longer in business.

We apply labels to products based on what we read in the pop culture. Take the time to look at the schematics and you will learn what is in the product.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: WB2WIK on February 25, 2013, 11:46:30 AM
It should be pointed out the BLA-350 has a built-in AC power supply.

The ALS-600 Ameritron (600W PEP output) with its "standard" but separate power supply is $1279.

So on a "per Watt" basis, they're about the same cost.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K6AER on February 25, 2013, 12:19:14 PM
Steve,

Now comes the discussion on wither RM Itally or Ameritronas has better QC and who abuses their workers more.

I hate it when the bands are dead.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N3QE on February 25, 2013, 12:32:37 PM
I hate it when the bands are dead.

Really? 80M to Asia this AM was best I'd ever heard it. From my QTH on the east coast I was clearly hearing China.

And I'm still worn out from ARRL DX CW :-)


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N4CR on February 25, 2013, 02:18:34 PM
Actually you are wrong. The inflation rate has been falling over the last year from 4% to under 2% for Feb 2013.  Inflation is lower than it was ten years ago, and lower than average before the 2008 crash.  You just don't know what you are talking about.

And what do they now leave out of the rate of inflation?

Food and fuel prices. Why is that?


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB4QAA on February 25, 2013, 03:49:37 PM
Tying the American dollar to the Euro is not a sign of how well the dollar is doing. Both are being devalued as a function of their buying power and quantitative easing (printing money). The American dollar, in buying power has lost more than 33% in the last 4 years.

Well, since the original statement was that the Dollar was losing value against all the worlds currency, we have to start somewhere.  The Euro represents a major chunk of the world countries, as well as the country of origin, Italy, of the amplifier in question.   

Again, we see that the Dollar is NOT plunging and this cannot be blamed for the price of the amplifier.

You cannot claim buying power is being lost without comparing it against something.

The US consumer price index represents the a consistent and well documented method of comparing prices in the US going back into the 19th century.   Piss and moan all you want, but you will have to argue with government and private economists about the composition. 

Again, it represents a consistent and well documented resource going back over 100 years.   And it shows that US inflation has not been above 4% in the last ten years, and has declined for the last year. 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W9PMZ on February 25, 2013, 04:15:28 PM
June 2003 (When I first started traveling for work to Asia)
$1 = B41.61 Thai Baht
$1 = e0.85 Euros
$1 = $1.35 Canadian Dollars
$1 = y118.29 Yen
$1 = Y8.27 Chinese RMB
$1 = L0.60 British Pounds
$1 = $1.73 Singapore Dollars
$1 = R28.41 Russian Rubles  (2005)

January 2013
$1 = B30.06 Thai Baht
$1 = e0.75 Euros
$1 = $0.99 Canadian Dollars
$1 = y89.19 Yen
$1 = Y6.22 Chinese RMB
$1 = L0.62 British Pounds
$1 = $1.22 Singapore Dollars
$1 = R30.22 Russian Rubles

The dollar to Asian currencies has tanked over the past 10 years and has been pretty constants as compared to Western currencies.  A dollar against where our goods are coming from just isn't as strong.  Even the Europeans are complaining.

If you look at a short period of time the dollar is not plunging.  Over a broader period of time western currencies are plunging and I long for the time when I could buy trinkets in Thailand at B49 (that was the highest exchange rate I ever got) to $1...

73,

Carl - W9PMZ


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB4QAA on February 25, 2013, 04:19:19 PM
Sigh.

A long term decline is not 'plunging'.  Look it up.

BTW, the Consumer Price Index, 'Market Basket' does include food and gasoline.  http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm#Question_7

In the larger picture, the US is still recovering from a near depression, and the Far East countries are still enjoying rapid growth as they mature into modern economic societies.  That strengthens their currencies. 

But realize that the US can't go back 50 years.  These new countries are now equal competitors. We can't assume that we are technologically superior, nor that other countries must buy our goods.  It's a different world.  Compete or lose.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KW6LA on February 25, 2013, 10:56:07 PM
Again, it represents a consistent and well documented resource going back over 100 years.   And it shows that US inflation has not been above 4% in the last ten years, and has declined for the last year.


You are kidding….. Gasoline alone spiked 20 percent here in Kalifornia last summer in one month. You must believe the unemployment figures are also correct. Harbor Freight is a good example of your
buying power is kaput. We are no longer on the Gold standard, so printing is the new game. Not a bad little amp hey ?


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KE3WD on February 26, 2013, 05:43:18 AM
Maybe you can get congress - the opposite of progress - to go ahead and issue Amp Stamps...

 ::)



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB4QAA on February 26, 2013, 05:56:50 AM
….. Gasoline alone spiked 20 percent here in Kalifornia last summer in one month. You must believe the unemployment figures are also correct. Harbor Freight is a good example of your
buying power is kaput. We are no longer on the Gold standard, so printing is the new game.
Stamp your feet and cry 'wee, wee, wee all the way home'.  Your ignorance is incredible.
-Regardless of the actual number of the CPI for Jan 2012, you forget some basics.  There are 49 other states and 6 Territories that are factored in.  Gas is only one small part of the 'Market Basket' representing typical family consumption.

-Printing cash is a crude method and hasn't been done in decades.  The Fed's Quantitative Easing is how money was injected into the economy from the top. Again, the measure of the result is the inflation rate.  Again, it has not exceeded 4% in the last ten years, and has average less than 3%

-If you believe in conspiracies, then there is no hope for you.  Go live in your fantasy land and count your enemies.

-There isn't enough gold in the world to represent the world's economy. There isn't enough available gold to represent the US's economy.  If you think money is tight now, imagine the government having to beg to buy gold from other countries in order to allow expansion of our economy!  You would really be up in arms.

-Re; exchange rates:  While it is nice to buy a cheap beer while traveling in the Far East, most of those countries have a minimal amount of trade (less than 1.4%) of the US total and thus their exchange rate has little or no direct effect on the US dollar.  In any case, the world changed in 2008, and much more weight must be given to trends since than, rather than strictly comparing to 2003.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W9PMZ on February 26, 2013, 08:57:19 AM
"Printing cash is a crude method and hasn't been done in decades.  The Fed's Quantitative Easing is how money was injected into the economy from the top."

So then where did the Fed exactly get this money for the QE then?



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W3DBB on February 26, 2013, 09:21:01 AM
Solid-state linear amplifiers are high, regardless of who builds them. The price of all amplifiers, even AL-811's, has risen quite a bit over the past 10 years. Incomes haven't kept up. It hurt$.

I'm squarely in the old, used amplifier category..., but think there is a lot to be learned by working on them. Old Heath, Henry, & Drake amplifiers do hold back the sale of new amplifiers.

For those who have the money or want something new, I think there is some exciting, new product out there. Many years from now I hopefully will have a nice 2013 amplifer to work on.

Actually you are wrong. The inflation rate has been falling over the last year from 4% to under 2% for Feb 2013.  Inflation is lower than it was ten years ago, and lower than average before the 2008 crash.  You just don't know what you are talking about.

And what do they now leave out of the rate of inflation?

Food and fuel prices. Why is that?

They leave it out to put the screws to those receiving Social Security, lowering cost-of-living increases on their checks.

You must believe the unemployment figures are also correct.

Government economists know the true rate of unemployment- excluding the so-called 'underemployed'- but to disclose same would wreck the confidence game known as the sales & service economy.

It's a big secret but 50% is a good guess. Tax receipts to governmental bodies at all levels are WAY down, so unless a tidal wave of embezzlement has been unleashed it's evident there is a big problem.

My baccalaureate economics training is like my amplifiers- 1970's vintage. We were taught the ultimate form of wealth creation is vertically-integrated manufacturing from raw materials to the finished product. Deviations from this due to outsourcing mean the wealth is created in a foreign country.

For the past 3 decades our government ignored wealth creation with our elected officials bought and paid for by multinational corporations. While this has been going on our government has been fastidious when it comes to concentrating wealth in the U.S. Taken to extremes, and this was taught in the Junior and Senior level Economics courses, wealth concentration results in chaos. Economists of this era believed in a certain level of welfare to prevent unrest and keep the peace.

Obama is a smart guy & understands wealth creation but he wants to dance around the real problem while promoting enviro-crap like windmills & solar panels. The solution to our lack of wealth creation has to be broad-based. Then, and only then, can we begin to get this Nation out of the deep hole it has dug for itself.

I have every confidence things will get worse, probably much worse, before the masses realize what has happened to then. Also operating with a high degree of confidence too much time has gone by, and our nation's economic woes cannot be fixed at this late date.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB4QAA on February 26, 2013, 09:54:30 AM
Facts just don't seem to matter here....

SS Cola is based on the CPI-W
The CPI-W includes gas and food.
Nothing is left out.

Re; Quantitative Easing, they create the value out of the air by crediting it to the banks in exchange for bonds/commercial assets, in essence buying them. As the bonds mature the Fed redeems them, or may choose to sell them early, recouping most or all of the expanded value.  Pretty close to a zero sum game hopefully.

Does printing money and putting it on the street, and QE both expand the money market?  Yes, in different ways.  But QE is not "printing money'.  

Regardless of the bitter accusations of printing money, the effect of QE is readily apparent: Inflation has risen no more than modestly, and is down over the last year, and the economy continues slow but steady improvement.  Things could be a lot worse.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K6AER on February 26, 2013, 11:39:47 AM
The one greatest assets the US has is its natural resources. Obama and company won’t touch them and has done everything possible to drive up the price of oil and gas. Everything we make and transport is affected by oil and gas pricing. All of our consumables are either grown or mined.

Unemployment is still as high as when Obama took office. The national debt has gone from 10 Trillion to 17 trillion in just four years. Now with the Sequester (about 80 billion) about to take place you would think the sky is falling. Never mind the president gave Hurricane Sandy victims 60 Billion just for the New Jersey volts last November. The sequester effects the rate of future spending. This is like your employer saying your raise next year will be 15% instead of 16%.

If anyone thinks this is a way to run a country they have never raised family and pay a mortgage.

One last item. Who is going to buy federal bonds when we default on our loans. Cities and states can't sell bonds anymore and are basically bankrupt. The US is next in line. Can you say Greese.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W9PMZ on February 26, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
Back to the original question as to the amplifier is it over priced.  I don't think so.

As to the secondary question.

In the next 5 to to 10 years there are going to be a lot of ticked off people when they realize that all of the money that they have had taken, at a rate of 15% per year, just isn't there and that they will be victims of "entitlement reform" just to keep things afloat.  Nobody really wants to comprehend the demographics in terms of age vs. tax contribution status as time moves to the right.

Bernie Madoff is a saint as compared to the fraud that is currently being perpetuated...



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W1JKA on February 26, 2013, 06:14:05 PM
     I hear  Obamadrama is heavily invested in Ameri-tron amp stock,apparently he likes the idea of the output being twenty times greater than the input.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W9MMS on February 26, 2013, 06:29:43 PM
This has become a POLITICAL Debate!  :o
Anybody want to add a little bit of RELIGION to the mix!  ???

((((73)))) Milverton


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W1JKA on February 26, 2013, 06:34:27 PM
Praise the Lord and pass the tax collection plate.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on February 27, 2013, 02:58:29 AM
Drifting the thread backwards a bit, are these amplifiers FCC Type Approved, and/or do they carry a CE mark?


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K6AER on March 01, 2013, 01:09:14 PM
No FCC type acceptance. The market is too small for them to care.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on March 02, 2013, 02:59:15 AM
Do the  FCC care, either? Or haven't they got around to jumping on the dealers?

Does anybody know if there is a CE mark?


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W1JKA on March 02, 2013, 04:13:12 AM
  Do you really think that checking out RM Italy products are on top of the FCC to do list during the current sequester?? Probably about the same priority level as enforcing infractions on the amateur radio bands.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: VE3TMT on March 03, 2013, 07:24:22 AM
Never seen a topic get more off topic in my life!


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W1JKA on March 04, 2013, 03:52:49 AM
Re: VE3TMT

  Stay tuned,it only gets worse.Most topics are just like kids on Xmas morning,the initial excitement only last so long.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KB3RPM on March 06, 2013, 10:19:15 AM
I was looking at the RM Italy HLA-150, but it requires a 50amp power supply. By the time I bought the amplifier AND a power supply delivering 50+amps @ 13.8v of DC, I could've bought the BLA-350. I'm going to be pulling the trigger on one soon!

My current rig, is an ICOM IC-718, Ten Tec Regal 707 mic and an MFJ-969 tuner. The tuner's only rated at 300watts, so I don't want to blow it out and have to replace it. 300watts should get me over the hump as they say. I had an Ameritron AL-811, but never used it. Sold it and bought a tablet PC with the $$. Then had to move, as the previous landlord wanted to convert my unit to condos. Currently in a rancher and the antenna (end fed Ultimax-100) is only 26-28' in the air. I'm running it as a sloper now and the fed end is only about 7' off the ground. I can hear like nobody's bidness, but nobody can hear me. So I figure I need a little wattage to help get me over the enforced limitations on my antenna. 100watts was just dandy when my antenna was completely horizontal and about 29-32' in the clear!

Anyway, I should be able to give user reports to you fellers soon enough. . .


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W6UV on March 06, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
Do the  FCC care, either?

Not really. You can buy an illegal CB amp at almost any truck stop in America. CB amplifier companies advertise openly on the web and the FCC seems to ignore them.

There are CB competitions in this country called "key downs" where competitors vie to see who can put out the strongest signal. Typical power levels are >10KW. These competitions are advertised well in advance, and often held in public parks, but I've never heard of the FCC busting one.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N4RSS on March 06, 2013, 01:47:15 PM
I was looking at the RM Italy HLA-150, but it requires a 50amp power supply. By the time I bought the amplifier AND a power supply delivering 50+amps @ 13.8v of DC, I could've bought the BLA-350. I'm going to be pulling the trigger on one soon!

My current rig, is an ICOM IC-718, Ten Tec Regal 707 mic and an MFJ-969 tuner. The tuner's only rated at 300watts, so I don't want to blow it out and have to replace it. 300watts should get me over the hump as they say. I had an Ameritron AL-811, but never used it. Sold it and bought a tablet PC with the $$. Then had to move, as the previous landlord wanted to convert my unit to condos. Currently in a rancher and the antenna (end fed Ultimax-100) is only 26-28' in the air. I'm running it as a sloper now and the fed end is only about 7' off the ground. I can hear like nobody's bidness, but nobody can hear me. So I figure I need a little wattage to help get me over the enforced limitations on my antenna. 100watts was just dandy when my antenna was completely horizontal and about 29-32' in the clear!

Anyway, I should be able to give user reports to you fellers soon enough. . .


You don't need a 50 amp power supply, 20 amps would certainly do it if you run the amp at 100 watts output, which is all it's good for.  See

http://www.w8ji.com/rm_hla-150_test.htm


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: WD5GWY on March 06, 2013, 01:54:02 PM


You don't need a 50 amp power supply, 20 amps would certainly do it if you run the amp at 100 watts output, which is all it's good for.  See

http://www.w8ji.com/rm_hla-150_test.htm

Reread W8JI's article, it is the HLA-150 he is reviewing, not the BLA-350. One is a mobile
amp and the other is for base use.
james
WD5GWY


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N4RSS on March 06, 2013, 07:48:31 PM


You don't need a 50 amp power supply, 20 amps would certainly do it if you run the amp at 100 watts output, which is all it's good for.  See

http://www.w8ji.com/rm_hla-150_test.htm

Reread W8JI's article, it is the HLA-150 he is reviewing, not the BLA-350. One is a mobile
amp and the other is for base use.



james
WD5GWY



KB3RPM is talking about needing a 50 amp supply for an HLA-150, which he doesn't ...,


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on March 07, 2013, 02:41:30 AM
If there's no CE mark, sale in the EU is illegal. Trouble is, enforcement in the EU is about at the same level as in the US - except in Germany.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: ZENKI on March 08, 2013, 11:55:41 AM
And as a result innocent hams have to put up with the IMD and trash from this CB junk.  It also seems that seeming intelligent hams have started the promotion of CB brand amps for use on the ham bands.

We need mandated IMD standards for all ham HF amps and transceivers. Just as their are standards for harmonic levels we need standards for IMD.

The ham bands are awash with idiots using these  CB amps  using industrial FETS not meant for  linear SSB use. Just because this amp uses 50 volt devices and has low pass filters still does not make
using it acceptable. The IMD performance stinks because they using industrial ISM fets not linear amplifier FETS. I wonder when all these genius hams are going  to start promoting using class C bias amps on the ham bands for better efficiency and dollar per watt ratio on SSB. I see the argument heading in this direction. Not one poster has even mentioned the subject of IMD, and this is from supposedly smart hams.

Now we have to tolerate hams splattering because they have no skills to build a decent amplifier now we have to condone their idiotic use of CB amplifiers because they cant afford to buy a decent ham amplifier.
Another win  for low technical standards accommodating non technical people in a technical hobby. Hams defending and promoting CB garbage WOW.

Eham should really ban any discussion or promotion  on  any amplifier thats  not  FCC type accepted, that would be an acceptable standard. Since this is a education forum condoning  commercial products that are illegal
is not really ethical especially when promoting these devices will do more harm than good to the ham service. RM Italy and its friends seem to be very active lately promoting their products on discussion forums, is this their
back door brain washing and marketing program to capture the  CB'er in new hams before its lost?


If there's no CE mark, sale in the EU is illegal. Trouble is, enforcement in the EU is about at the same level as in the US - except in Germany.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on March 09, 2013, 07:35:15 AM
If you go to

http://g4ujs.shacknet.nu/spe_2k-fa.pdf

there's data suggesting that at least one of the amps meets FCC, and by implications and the fact that the company claims ISO 9000 certification, meets EU requirements

73

Peter G3RZP


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: N0ZNA on January 11, 2014, 10:39:02 AM
Glorified Cb amp,like the rest of there stuff...


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD8MJR on January 11, 2014, 12:30:03 PM
The one greatest assets the US has is its natural resources. Obama and company won’t touch them and has done everything possible to drive up the price of oil and gas. Everything we make and transport is affected by oil and gas pricing. All of our consumables are either grown or mined.

Obama has done everything possible to drive up Gas ??? ???  I am no fan of Obama but I won't get my history mixed up to support an argument.  Its interesting what happened to gas prices between 2000 and 2008 when an oil company ran the country  :P

(http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/energy/Gas-Price-History.png)

Blame him for what you want but don't tell me that he drove up the Gas prices.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD8MJR on January 11, 2014, 12:36:38 PM
Glorified Cb amp,like the rest of there stuff...

The real problem is the reliability.  If you get one I suggest buying a few sets of spare finals.
Solid State amplifiers live or die depending on how well the protection circuits are designed and that is something that I have yet to see a reviewer quantify.  We know Tokyo Hy-power was on the top but it would be nice if ARRL SS Amp reviews had numbers to rate different areas of the needed protection circuitry.



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on January 11, 2014, 02:48:40 PM
KD8MJR said:

>If you get one I suggest buying a few sets of spare finals.<

That is VERY good advice for any SS amp. When you look at the way SS amp parts have come and gone over the last twenty years - as someone once said "Changing like a whore's drawers on a Saturday night with the fleet in port". So many have come and gone in the last 30 years while 6146s,  572Bs and 3-500Zs are still marching on....

OK, 32 years of employment in the semiconductor industry may have made me slightly cynical......


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: M0HCN on January 12, 2014, 04:02:46 AM
However, at least in the mosfet world there are usually several near equivalent parts, MRF151/SD2931/BLF177.....
In the dual KW class there are freescale, Macom and NXP parts that look to be the next best thing to a direct swap.

My experience has been that run in an amplifier designed to run the device at 80% of rating (not the same thing as an amp turned down to 80%!), with good fast acting protection I am mot seeing many failures even in a 24/7 broadcast application.

Now I would not assume that a cheap amp has the required protection circuits, or that they have actually been tested, but finals are not necessarily the big issue in a SSPA (Sufficient heatsink and actually reading the app notes as to the correct way to bolt the devices down however....).

73 Dan.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W1QJ on January 12, 2014, 05:48:29 AM
Ok, here we are almost a year later, where are all of the economists to give the actual facts about inflation?


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W5WSS on January 12, 2014, 07:05:18 AM
Well I have a Tokyo HY Power amplifier with the protection feature And most of my concern relative to longevity is more focused on the potential problems of figuring out the best remedy if the chip set that drives the various protection features fail more than replacing the finals.

One problem for the owner of this amplifier is that THP did not provide a schematic although I have succeeded in acquiring some via a ham friend Gene retired Collins Tech.

The THP amplifier I own is the HL-450b uses 4 THP-120's the replacement finals are Toshiba 2SC2879 'unverified' but probably correct.

Mitsubishi finals are widely used for HF RF applications and actually THP was just introducing a new mid range 500-700 watt 12v Dc amplifier model HL-770b had 8-Mitsubishi RD HHF100 100 watt finals found in almost all of the Icom rigs today.

The protection circuitry technology will appear in the future FCC approved Hf amplifiers as we progress through this economical meltdown that we have been suffering.

73


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD8MJR on January 12, 2014, 09:17:01 AM
I have never heard of any thp protection circuitry getting damaged but if it did protection all centers around the Microcontroller which is a very common unit but the firmware that's on it is another issue.  Aquiring the firmware for all the models has become very important.  I am sure that it is floating around in the hands of a few people but I don't expect to hear anything about it until the fate of what remains of THP is decided.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W5WSS on January 12, 2014, 12:44:00 PM
Yes agreed I have not heard of a firmware loss with the remedy being a re download of the last available version.

I do not even know if it has been designed to accept a download of firmware.

Rather Is probably a chip replacement.

Speculate the protection feature could be bypassed if no remedy in firmware available because of obsolescence.

Suppose if I am correct bypassing is a step backwards but a consolation indeed.

Suppose then If there are any chip sets with the correct firmware then perhaps one could endeavor to purchase one.

Wait and see.

73


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD8MJR on January 13, 2014, 03:57:19 PM
I know of one guy who requested a firmware update for his amp and THP sent him a new chip.
That does not mean that we can't program one ourselves, I am sure that is possible. They sell the programmers for about $25 on eBay. We just need firmware and it's a done deal for total self repair.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W5WSS on January 15, 2014, 07:59:25 PM
Thanks interesting to know. I would need to look and see if it is pullable" or surface mount soldered directly onto the board.

Thanks


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD8MJR on January 16, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
It must be a socketed chip.  Thp would not send them out if you needed to solder them in.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: W4KVW on February 08, 2014, 05:11:36 PM
Well if all else fails they did make a RM ITALY KLV 350 that was a tube amplifier.It has the CE seal on it & uses (2) 6KG6A tubes.The meter on that amp goes up to 600 watts but I doubt it would do anywhere near that with those (2) tubes.I hear lots of stations on 10 meters using the RM KLV amplifiers FCC type accepted or not there are a lot of these amps on the bands in the USA & other countries & I must say they appear to be pretty clean on the air when I have heard them? They look clean on my band scope as well which is something most of the so called CB amplifiers usually are not.I know it takes a lot of money to get type acceptance but these amps just may make the cut but I doubt they can afford to spend that much money just getting the FCC to clear them.I can find nothing about this amp being anything more than 10/11 meters usage so I don't know if they will work on any other bands? They only have one tuning knob in the photo's also so I'm not sure if that's a load or tune knob?

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on February 09, 2014, 12:46:06 AM
Putting the CE mark on can be done by the manufacturer self certifying, which is quite legal in Europe. He needs to have a suitable QA system and a complete Technical File with design notes, measurement results etc. Which is fine in theory for free trade (which is what it is supposed to encourage) but in practice allows all sort of rubbish to get on the market as there is practically no enforcement.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: M0HDX on February 09, 2014, 05:00:00 AM
Approx £650 to buy over here in the UK and one of the big emporiums over here as decided to discontinue the sale of the BLA-350 for the time being.I read somewhere that this was due to many failures and faulty units.

Save the extra cash and look at other options. Best of luck (you will need it) if you buy  BLA-350

jim M0HDX


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: ZENKI on February 14, 2014, 03:33:46 AM
Compare the SPE2KFA with  the RM Italy amp and you can soon understand why its just a piece of glorified CB junk.
It seems to be popular with the CB hams since  they seem to think that CB brands are better than the equivalent ham brands or products.

Since RM Italy has some market appeal with new ex CB hams I wonder why they just dont bite   the bullet and design a proper linear amplifier that is FCC certified.

They could adopt the standard ITU SSB standards for IMD  linearity, which is not a onerous standard however it would be better than most of the current ham linears.
This would  be a very good starting point for RM Italy.  RM Italy could  offer something  decent for the ham market, however while they continue producing their CB trash products they will never get technical respect for their products. Who wants to be associated with CB trash products, apparently a lot of ex cb'ers who become hams.

Approx £650 to buy over here in the UK and one of the big emporiums over here as decided to discontinue the sale of the BLA-350 for the time being.I read somewhere that this was due to many failures and faulty units.

Save the extra cash and look at other options. Best of luck (you will need it) if you buy  BLA-350

jim M0HDX


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K2GWK on February 14, 2014, 10:49:10 AM
Compare the SPE2KFA with  the RM Italy amp and you can soon understand why its just a piece of glorified CB junk.
It seems to be popular with the CB hams since  they seem to think that CB brands are better than the equivalent ham brands or products.

Since RM Italy has some market appeal with new ex CB hams I wonder why they just dont bite   the bullet and design a proper linear amplifier that is FCC certified.

They could adopt the standard ITU SSB standards for IMD  linearity, which is not a onerous standard however it would be better than most of the current ham linears.
This would  be a very good starting point for RM Italy.  RM Italy could  offer something  decent for the ham market, however while they continue producing their CB trash products they will never get technical respect for their products. Who wants to be associated with CB trash products, apparently a lot of ex cb'ers who become hams.

That is pure bullchit! The reason hams are migrating toward the RM Amplifiers is simply because there are not many Hams out there who can drop the $8000 to buy an Expert 2K-FA. Not everyone is made of money Jack. That being said, there are less expensive alternatives to the Expert 2K-FA out there, although they are in the $3000 to $4000 range and still out of range of a lot of Hams. It has absolutely nothing to do with CBer's becoming Hams, it is simply economics.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K4RVN on February 16, 2014, 01:20:21 PM
 Answering the original post topic , this amp is advertised at 600 watts PEP SSB which from a watts per dollar is reasonable price  due to the poor regard for our dollar value  as others have pointed out. Since it is new on the market, it has no proven performance track record in this country that I am aware of as I have never heard one on the air.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K4RVN on February 16, 2014, 09:23:05 PM
I saw a test on this amp on the internet via u tube using 7 watts drive produced under 500 watts peak. Turning the drive up to 10 watts was not clean at 500 plus watts peak. So please disregard my comments about it being a good watt for the dollar price as I should have waited for more info. It looked good at reduced power of slightly over 300 watts according to the conversation on
u tube.



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: KD4TWP on March 05, 2014, 07:42:42 AM
At last! somebody gets the whole idea. people bitch and moan about Cb this Ham that! get over it and enjoy the hobby. The subject is about price. Not politics.
 Bottom line is ive been saving money for a year to buy a  solid state no tune amp to use with my QRP Base. and all I have is $750 bucks and that's all I have and not getting any more anytime soon and not waiting any more. what do I do? go buy a used "ham" amp? or buy the new BLA-350?
Ive seen all the reviews on the BLA and what I gather is if you don't over drive it it is a great amp, and already know all about the Ham amps. and the cheapest one I can find is the AL-811 $730.00 from DX emerging. And the BLA-350 for $750.00 from HY electronics.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: K6AER on March 05, 2014, 09:14:32 AM
In the bang for the buck category for QRP operation consider the RM-300 HV (250 Watts PEP)or the ALS-500 (370 watts PEP) used. Run them at 14.4 VDC and don't overdrive them.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: ZENKI on March 06, 2014, 02:52:32 AM
Yeah smart hams and even engineers can drive these crap CB amplifiers to improve  their IMD performance. They must have the engineering skills of  the gods.

Boys and girls buy your CB amps, you are very smart CB engineers ... you  so skilled, you can adjust them thar knobs to put out a clean signal from a CB amp with marginal IMD performance. Your marginally filthy ham radio driving a crap CB amplifier will be clean because  your smart fingers can set those  to the clean setting. Your CB golden intelligent fingers  can do the tuning for you. Why do you do a clean ham transmitter and amplifier, Mr CB golden fingers  can clean tune your bitter pill box for a clean signal.

Now we have on display the  CB engineering intellect that is permeating the ham service.

Hams seem to be getting dumb  and the stupid technical arguments that justifies polluting the ham bands  seem to be getting worst.



Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: M0HCN on March 08, 2014, 11:34:30 AM
Not the engineering skills of the gods, but adaptive predistortion has been recently demonstrated to get better then -40dBc IM3 from a mosfet stage biased rather more class B then AB, 100mA @50V rather then 1A (-40dBc is least as good as many of the rigs out there :-( ).

Some discussion on the HPSDR list in the last day or so, it would be very interesting to see what would happen if you put one of these cheap amps inside that kind of feedback loop.
I doubt it would make the -60dBc of a good 50V LDMOS stage in such a loop, but it might well make -40dBc or so, which would be good enough to not be a total embarrassment.

I am holding out for full on cartesian loop, but have to admit that the adaptive predistortion loops are putting in a good showing with a range of different power stages.

Of course doing this does sort of imply a fairly serious SDR of the DDC/DUC variety to be able to close the loop with sufficient accuracy.

73 Dan.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: WD5GWY on March 08, 2014, 03:15:47 PM
No expert on the subject, but, I would think that Adaptive Predistortion would have no
effect on amps like the RM Italy's being discussed here.
RM Italy amps are not known at all for clean output. Lowering the drive in an attempt to
obtain a clean output is a waste of time. Without proper design to begin with, it will have
no effect at all. (might lower the signal strength of the spurs etc. that the amp produces,
but it won't eliminate them)
   KD4TWP, if you've got $750 to spend on an amp, you can pick up a nice 811h used
for less than that. And there are other amps that can be purchased used in a similar
price range. Oh, you are right the subject is not about politics, as you said, it's about price.
BUT, as so many have tried to point out, it is about cleaning up our ham bands as well.
Using poorly designed equipment to "enjoy the hobby" without consideration to other amateurs,
is simply rude. It is not that hard to find decent radios and amps that do not trash the bands
with unnecessary splatter.
  Unfortunately, it has become a ME world and a lot of people, (but thankfully, not all) do not
care how they effect others around them. (which is becoming true in more aspects of life and
is not limited to Amateur Radio)
   james
WD5GWY
 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: G3RZP on March 08, 2014, 11:13:30 PM
After the last generation of transceivers with tube PA stages, the high order IMD (and the lower order for that matter) significantly degraded, with the exception of those Yaesu transceivers that had the Class A PA option. I covered this in my lecture at last year's RSGB Convention, entitled 'Spreading the Sewage' (More polite than 'Slinging the S***!). I don't have the capability of putting the slides up on the web, though.


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: WD5GWY on March 09, 2014, 11:55:19 AM
After the last generation of transceivers with tube PA stages, the high order IMD (and the lower order for that matter) significantly degraded, with the exception of those Yaesu transceivers that had the Class A PA option. I covered this in my lecture at last year's RSGB Convention, entitled 'Spreading the Sewage' (More polite than 'Slinging the S***!). I don't have the capability of putting the slides up on the web, though.
Too bad, I would like to see the slides. Do you think you could post the lecture itself? Even without the slides, it might help open some eyes. (then again, maybe not) It does look like there are some
manufacturers and software developers making some efforts to provide equipment with cleaner signals. Hopefully, one day others will follow their lead. But, like Zinki, I kind of doubt it, as Amateurs are not a big market to them and we don't seem to care enough to push them towards
better equipment.
james
WD5GWY
 


Title: RE: RM Italy BLA 350 -- Overpriced????
Post by: MM0IMC on September 09, 2014, 05:13:23 AM
I bought a second hand BLA 350 from a friend who'd had it for just over two years with little use.  After using it for nine hours, I put the rig on to 10m with 5W carrier to test it into a dummy load.  There was a flash when the amp keyed and unkeyed, I hadn't realised through tiredness that I'd put the rig on to 6m by mistake.  It was a costly mistake.

Once I got the amp back from repair, I was far more careful. Despite this, it decide to go pop again.  This time I was on 12m with a 10W carrier, the SWR was slightly above 2:1.  I've used this band and antenna before without issues and the amp's protection circuit usually kicks in if something is amiss.

I'm going to be selling this for spares or repairs, a complete waste of time and money.  I'll stick to my trusty valve (tube) amp in future!