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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: N2CST on March 11, 2013, 05:01:29 PM



Title: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N2CST on March 11, 2013, 05:01:29 PM
We have all made a mistake while on the air, and that is not what I am referring to here.
I have noticed lately on 40 meters that many op's are using code and digital modes in the phone portion of the band and phone in the digital portion. Many others lack respect by tuning up right in the middle of an ongoing qso.
On 80 meters I have overheard many operators using profanity so much, that you know was not a slip of the tongue. I wish that they would stop and think that children may be listening, and regardless it is not very becoming of amateur radio to use that language.
Anyway my point is, if we do not abide by the rules, the hobby will become as useless as 11 meters.
Show that you became a ham, because you are smarter than that.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K8AXW on March 11, 2013, 05:31:48 PM
Welcome to planet Earth!  Let me expand on your accurate observations a bit.

Have you noticed that this is the norm for damn near everything that goes on in the country these days?  I call this the "NOW" generation or in some cases the "ME" generation.

However, it's not really a "generation" but simply the attitude of many these days, from newbies to the old farts that hang out on 80m.  They seem to have the same attitude of an old troll that lived in NY.  He always berated "Lids, kids and K8s." 

No doubt I have a negative attitude about the future of ham radio but I sincerely feel that one day we will indeed be the same as 11 meters.  It just won't happen as fast.





Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: WN2C on March 11, 2013, 06:38:45 PM
Welcome to planet Earth!  Let me expand on your accurate observations a bit.

Have you noticed that this is the norm for damn near everything that goes on in the country these days?  I call this the "NOW" generation or in some cases the "ME" generation.

However, it's not really a "generation" but simply the attitude of many these days, from newbies to the old farts that hang out on 80m.  They seem to have the same attitude of an old troll that lived in NY.  He always berated "Lids, kids and K8s." 

No doubt I have a negative attitude about the future of ham radio but I sincerely feel that one day we will indeed be the same as 11 meters.  It just won't happen as fast.





I thought it was...No Lids, no kids and no space cadets...


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K8AXW on March 11, 2013, 08:31:46 PM
2C: He would call, "CQ CQ CQ, this is W2.. and I don't wanna talk to any lids, kids or K8s."  He would also indicate he didn't want to talk to any "space cadets."  I took that to mean those who used phonetics for their calls.

I've talked to him several times even though I was a K3 at the time.  I guess because not many others would talk to him.

You must be an old fart too!


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N2MG on March 12, 2013, 07:09:15 AM
Check out the thread

https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=66730.0

-Mike N2MG


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K0OD on March 12, 2013, 07:34:59 AM
Quote
"I have noticed lately on 40 meters that many op's are using code and digital modes in the phone portion of the band and phone in the digital portion."
Is that true? I haven't been on 40 phone much lately but I'm guessing he has his facts wrong.

In any event CW is legal on just about any frequency (not on 60 M until last year).

Those CW signals could be from a shared user in another country or ham harmonics or a ton of other things.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K0OD on March 12, 2013, 07:43:47 AM
Quote
phone in the digital portion

The digital portion is the phone band for many countries. In fact, aren't some US territories allowed to operate phone below the normal U.S. band on 40? Is that still the case?

In most of the world 40 is wide open for all ham modes from 7.000 to the very top.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K1CJS on March 12, 2013, 07:50:38 AM
Quote
phone in the digital portion

The digital portion is the phone band for many countries. In fact, aren't some US territories allowed to operate phone below the normal U.S. band on 40? Is that still the case?

In most of the world 40 is wide open for all ham modes from 7.000 to the very top.

Quite.  Just as that is, the people who are complaining about someone 'tuning up' right on top of an ongoing conversation have to remember that sometimes the person doing that cannot hear the conversation in progress!  HF is sometimes funny like that--as the more experienced--and more forgiving--hams should know.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K0OD on March 12, 2013, 07:52:05 AM
Yep, phone is legal down there for some US regions. Often heard in contests.

"Phone operation is allowed on 7.025 - 7.100 Mhz in Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands and areas of the Caribbean south of 20° north latitude; and in Hawaii and areas near ITU Region 3, including Alaska."

http://www.csgnetwork.com/hamfreqtable.html


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K0OD on March 12, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
K!CJS: "as the more experienced--and more forgiving--hams should know"

Yep, on 60 meters newbies would often show up and scream about illegal CW, LSB and off channel operation. They didn't know 1) it's a shared allocation; 2) all of those things are legal in other countries for hams.

What's with American hams (more likely CBers) playing all that really loud Bulgarian Music for hours on the high end of 40 phone? :)
 


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K8AXW on March 12, 2013, 08:47:30 AM
2MG:  I checked out the link you provided.  It brought back many memories.  Yep, W2OY.....didn't want to use his call initially because of this "sue the bastards" mentality we now have.

As one pointed out Mike didn't want to talk to anyone using "low-level" modulation.  (Some will need to look this up)  He used an old BC-610 and had a booming signal. 

I ran into Mike on the air after a long hiatus from ham radio.  His antics really had me upset because this wasn't ham radio!  After listening to him for a few weeks, usually in a boiling rage, I gave him a call..... K3 call and low-level modulation with my Knightkit T-150A and all.  He came back and he was courteous.  I talked to him a few times after that but most of the time he would ignore me.

Al - K8AXW and a Space Cadet!


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N9KX on March 12, 2013, 10:14:59 AM
Check out the thread

https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=66730.0

-Mike N2MG

thanks Mike.  this recording of him calling CQ from the 1960's was great to listen to after hearing all the talk about W2OY:
http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/w2oy2.wav (http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/w2oy2.wav)

evidently he was not all bad:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/ (http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/)

Quote from: W2OY tribute page
At the time W2OY was on the air, the only prefixes that had been issued were W's and K's. The first K's started sometime in the mid 50's, so a K callsign meant you were a Johnny-come-lately. I think "No K Calls" was eventually replaced with "No Slopbuckets".

Some of his other famous sayings were:

"No Buster Brown Haircutters, No Phoney Phonetics, Only real Hams please"

"No Wet Bottoms (WB prefixes?)"

"No Kings, No Queens, No Jacks, No Long-talkin' Old Washer Women"

I have heard that Mike was always very good with the local children. At his funeral, there were dozens of kids who mourned his loss. It was generally unknown on the airwaves that he was very active working with kids and various groups in their behalf.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: VE3FMC on March 12, 2013, 11:31:04 AM
I have not heard digital or CW signals in the phone portion of 40 meters. There is a net that operates on 7.153 during the morning hours that does have some CW check ins. But other than that I don't hear what the original poster is talking about.

Yes there are phone ops below 7.100 because it is legal for us to operate there. I for one rarely operate phone down there but I can if I want. I have had other VE stations start up QSO's on 7.076 while I was operating JT65. But that is life, they don't realize what the JT65 signal sounds like so they just start up a QSO on top of it.

Spin the VFO dial if it annoys you that much!

I am pretty sure Alaska ops can operate phone below 7.100 but maybe that has changed.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K1CJS on March 13, 2013, 04:23:43 AM
K!CJS: "as the more experienced--and more forgiving--hams should know"

Yep, on 60 meters newbies would often show up and scream about illegal CW, LSB and off channel operation. They didn't know 1) it's a shared allocation; 2) all of those things are legal in other countries for hams.

What's with American hams (more likely CBers) playing all that really loud Bulgarian Music for hours on the high end of 40 phone? :)  

The quoted comment was made about hams who don't know (or care) about propagation anomalies that well can let one station be heard, yet will make another station 'deaf', not about idiots who believe that just because they're allowed frequency useage that they own that frequency!   ;D

I see the smiley, but I thought the high end of 40 was used in some middle eastern countries as a broadcast band.  Yes?  or no?


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N3DF on March 13, 2013, 09:16:26 AM
2C: He would call, "CQ CQ CQ, this is W2.. and I don't wanna talk to any lids, kids or K8s."  He would also indicate he didn't want to talk to any "space cadets."  I took that to mean those who used phonetics for their calls.

I've talked to him several times even though I was a K3 at the time.  I guess because not many others would talk to him.

You must be an old fart too!

No, Myron disapproved of those who used the then-new Whiskey Alpha "space cadet" phonetics, rather than the older, WWII Willie Able phonetics. 


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K0OD on March 13, 2013, 11:20:03 AM
Quote
"I see the smiley, but I thought the high end of 40 was used in some middle eastern countries as a broadcast band.  Yes?  or no?"
Sure it is, and not just the middle east. Broadcasting was supposed to leave 40 a number of years ago and mostly has.

If the Space Cadet guy was mad about new-fangled phonetics (I had never heard that of him) then he was an idiot. Many phonetic systems co-existed going back to the dawn of line line telegraphy and perhaps before. ARRL even had their own phonetic system years ago.

Somehow recently it has been decided by ham instructors that the NATO system is the only correct one. Which is ridiculous.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N9KX on March 13, 2013, 12:20:52 PM
[No, Myron disapproved of those who used the then-new Whiskey Alpha "space cadet" phonetics, rather than the older, WWII Willie Able phonetics. 

thanks for clearing up W2OY's issue with phonetics.  I was originally a WB -- in the recorded snippet he says "no Wet Bottoms" LOL

sounds like he was missing the glory days of radio and felt like the phone bands had been invaded by idiots who, in addition to being identified by their new school callsigns, also had new-school phonetics.  He did make some interesting phonetics up of his own in protest.  It does seem at least anecdotally that although he did things like call "CQ First Class operators" he was fairly civil to those who answered his CQ, even if they were K8's or kids :D  sounds like he was a good businessman and person too, according to the tribute...


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: KA4NMA on March 17, 2013, 09:47:15 PM
I have not heard of the NATO phonetics.  I saw only a few  differences such as alfa instead of alpha and Mike for Mary.  I checked the ARRL website and the ITU phonetics are the same as NATO.

Randy ka4nma


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: N2CST on March 18, 2013, 04:49:26 PM
I must not have found the right ears here, because no one called me a mother father like you hear on 80.  ;D


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: AC4BB on March 19, 2013, 07:32:01 AM
  The most annoying bad practice I see on digital is, People that transmit with an "Open Mic" that is to say7 they either use use the mic to directly interface or the leave the mic inline. You can hear the background audio from their station.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K1DA on April 17, 2013, 08:54:31 AM
JackwagonMyron called CQ on  top of K1ZFN and I on 40 one afternoon.  Jackwagon didn't own a callbook and thus didn't know we were a half mile apart. Needless to say we talked right through him.  I suspect it cost him a few scarce brain cells.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: W8AAZ on April 20, 2013, 05:19:32 PM
I hear some people on 7.1-7.125 or so, using slow CW and some vintage rigs(I can tell by the keying, the chirps, etc.)Maybe novice nostalgia or just a handful of old novice crystals on hand. Seems to be a nice place for ops to pick up code speed or work QRS getting their feet wet in CW without being run over by the QRM and speed keys down in the lower portion. 


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: AC4BB on April 20, 2013, 05:47:32 PM
   I got aggravated  while operating SSTV on 14.233.  A SSB signal appeared and it was distorted and WIDE 12KC wide at least.  I finally found the frequency of the offender.  I asked  "OM, do you know just exactly how wide and distorted your signal is?"  Yeah, I know it's wide, But, This rig was built in the 1950's and I have NO intentions of spending the money to fix it or invest the time required to fix. 'Don't like it that's just too Bad "Buzz off."


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: K1CJS on April 23, 2013, 04:31:26 AM
  ....Yeah, I know it's wide, But, This rig was built in the 1950's and I have NO intentions of spending the money to fix it or invest the time required to fix. 'Don't like it that's just too Bad "Buzz off."

Time to get the notepaper and the recorder and report this guy to the OOs or the FCC.  They'll see that he spends the money--one way or the other! 


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: AC4BB on April 24, 2013, 11:27:27 AM
  Checking my logbook.  I was 14.233 USB and  I caught him at 14.221 and I cannot recall how far above or below that he went?  I know he was racking 14.233 up big time.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: ONAIR on April 26, 2013, 12:35:51 AM
   I got aggravated  while operating SSTV on 14.233.  A SSB signal appeared and it was distorted and WIDE 12KC wide at least.  I finally found the frequency of the offender.  I asked  "OM, do you know just exactly how wide and distorted your signal is?"  Yeah, I know it's wide, But, This rig was built in the 1950's and I have NO intentions of spending the money to fix it or invest the time required to fix. 'Don't like it that's just too Bad "Buzz off."
  You think that's bad?  I was in LA on the W6NUT repeater, and I told a ham that his audio was a little distorted.  He told me to fork off, and began playing music for the next half hour!!!


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: AA4BQ on December 15, 2014, 02:45:16 PM
Welcome to planet Earth!  Let me expand on your accurate observations a bit.

Have you noticed that this is the norm for damn near everything that goes on in the country these days?  I call this the "NOW" generation or in some cases the "ME" generation.

However, it's not really a "generation" but simply the attitude of many these days, from newbies to the old farts that hang out on 80m.  They seem to have the same attitude of an old troll that lived in NY.  He always berated "Lids, kids and K8s." 

No doubt I have a negative attitude about the future of ham radio but I sincerely feel that one day we will indeed be the same as 11 meters.  It just won't happen as fast.



I disagree. I do agree 100% with the growing poor practices. I disagree that it's the "generation". In fact, it is the middle generation that got so "politically correct" that everyone gets a trophy. The poor practices began back in the early 80's after the relaxation of testing and CW began to yield a newbie unlike anything prior. No more was there a bonofide "NOVICE BAND" where people congregated and developed both code AND operating practices. Everyone knew the correct protocols after spending just a couple months on the NOVICE bands. Old-timers would often venture into the band and "Elmer" us. Now, I see aspiring CW guys having to actually ASK "where are all the slow CW guys".  REALLY?

The second, if not more damaging to protocol, is contesting mentalities. Have you ever seen anything like the 100's of thousands of dollars some people spend on towers, amps, and mega-expensive yagi's?  I heard one the other day calling CQ. It was a VO2 station. Not "CQ DX" mind you, just "CQ".  When I answered his CQ, I got:  "AA4BQ 559. BK"      Now, what in the heck is going on in this guy's mind?  Is he just running up some kind of counter?  Does that impress someone?  I just don't get it.  No name, no hello - good afternoon, name or QTH.  Some don't even bother giving you a real RST. It's "5NN BK".  And, this was on a Monday afternoon and no contests going on. He just kept calling CQ and spending 5 seconds and then adios.  Variations of this experience are numerous.

So, between contesting and the dissolution of any real code or electronics learning, we get guys that have an Extra Class license and don't know one end of a diode from another (except in the testing guide.) I have read some's QRZ.com bio and they actually bragged about their CB days.


So, I agree with you 100%, as the wave of old timers transition to SKeys, the state of the hobby as described with steadily decline.

NOTHING WORTH HAVING EVER COMES EASY. THINGS THAT COME FREE ARE WORTH WHAT FREE COSTS.



Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: KM4AH on December 15, 2014, 02:53:35 PM
Well, one end of the diode has a stripe. It is really frustrating since out of any give pack about half of them are on the wrong end.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: WA2ISE on December 15, 2014, 04:26:20 PM

 No more was there a bonofide "NOVICE BAND" where people congregated and developed both code AND operating practices. Everyone knew the correct protocols after spending just a couple months on the NOVICE bands. Old-timers would often venture into the band and "Elmer" us. Now, I see aspiring CW guys having to actually ASK "where are all the slow CW guys".  REALLY?


I've always thought that the ARRL would have created a band plan designating the old novice bands (or some of them) as CW training territory for CW newbies.  No need to use homebrew tube rigs and a handful of crystals or 75 watt limits, though. 


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: KM4AH on December 15, 2014, 06:36:17 PM
I think hams should be tested on smoke signals and banging on drums.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: G3RZP on December 16, 2014, 12:10:05 AM
>I think hams should be tested on smoke signals and banging on drums.<

There are those around on the bands who, judging by their operating practices, would find even that beyond their capabilities.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: W9FIB on December 16, 2014, 03:43:46 AM
I think hams should be tested on smoke signals and banging on drums.

I think too many skipped that part and went directly to the peace pipe with the wacky tabaccy.  :D


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: KM4AH on December 16, 2014, 05:08:53 AM
I think hams should be tested on smoke signals and banging on drums.

I think too many skipped that part and went directly to the peace pipe with the wacky tabaccy.  :D

Peyote and pulque as well.


Title: RE: Poor operating practices catch on fast
Post by: KK5DR on January 13, 2015, 07:52:13 PM
If not called out, bad behavior/operating/practices begin to grow like a cancer.
If you ignore it, turn a blind eye, spin the VFO, you are part of the problem.
This is not one of those times to "fight fire with fire", two wrongs don't make it alright.
Be the voice of reason and logic. The truth is its own defense. Be a light in the dark. Lead by example.