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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: KD8MJR on May 16, 2013, 04:15:16 PM



Title: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on May 16, 2013, 04:15:16 PM
I have been using HRD for 4 years now and as of this moment I am using the latest release 5.24
I donated to Simon when I first got HRD and have always loved the software, bugs and all :) but at this point in time I find myself at a cross roads with HRD.   A few things keep going through my mind so I wanted to list them and get some feedback from other HRD users.

1) On one hand I really appreciated all the work the new HRD owners put into the software and I do understand that they need to make a profit but regardless of what others have said I do find the price to be pretty high for software that has very competent competing freeware versions for most modules.

2) The yearly service plan is a real turn off for me.  I think that there is Zero chance that you can buy 6.0 and then upgrade to 6.1 and think you’re going to be safe for several years to come.  It seems to me that every year something happens with either QRZ or LoTW to cause a need for the logging software to be updated.  So if I buy 6.0 now, I feel pretty certain that in 2014 I will be paying an additional $48 for 6.2 in order to fix a problem in 6.1 and if past history is accurate it can be assumed that this will happen on almost an annual basis.

3) I am still looking for a compelling reason to move to version 6.  At first I was really interested in the CW Supersweeper but that did not come out with 6.0.  Now I hear the CW sweeper will be shown in Beta form at Dayton but during the last few days I have been playing around with CW Skimmer and once again feel torn between buying that and then using some separate freeware software for all the other things I need.


At the end of the day I guess my real dilemma is not spending a one shot $90 fee for HRD 6.0 it’s the whole idea of a subscription type sale that turns me off.  I hate it with Antivirus software and like it even less with Ham Software.   My second problem is that I am yet to see a compelling reason why HRD 6.0 is so much better than even the older versions that Simon put out.  Sure there are bug fixes, but for many popular radios the bugs where pretty minimum to begin with.  Anybody else wrestling with the idea of upgrading and is NOT a member of the Beta test Team?  


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WS4E on May 16, 2013, 05:28:25 PM
The fact it costs about $400 over 5 years if you want access to bug fixes and updates(like everytime qrz makes changes and lookups stop working, or you get that new yaesu like the ftdx3000 which only works in the latest versipn) is totally crazy.  

I am not exaggerating the 5 year cost is: $99 + $60 + $60 + $60 + $60 =   $340. 

Charging every year for the same software is the kind of stupid stuff businesses do for 'enterprise support'.

These guys think they are selling Oracle not a formerly free shareware ham app.  

 


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W8JX on May 16, 2013, 05:42:29 PM
The fact it costs about $400 over 5 years if you want access to bug fixes and updates(like everytime qrz makes changes and lookups stop working, or you get that new yaesu like the ftdx3000 which only works in the latest versipn) is totally crazy.  

I am not exaggerating the 5 year cost is: $99 + $60 + $60 + $60 + $60 =   $340. 

Charging every year for the same software is the kind of stupid stuff businesses do for 'enterprise support'.

These guys think they are selling Oracle not a formerly free shareware ham app.  

 

Kinda like Office 365 yearly fee too. HRD is not that good.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on May 16, 2013, 06:16:02 PM
Thanks for the replies keep them coming.  I think we all can relate to the enormous expenditure they have made but at the same time the annual fee just seems a bit excessive!



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W8JX on May 16, 2013, 06:32:29 PM
Thanks for the replies keep them coming.  I think we all can relate to the enormous expenditure they have made but at the same time the annual fee just seems a bit excessive!

I think it will backfire on them and drive people away for software. Very excessive in cost. Plus it is not really the best there is for Digi either but more of a all in one thing.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WN2C on May 16, 2013, 06:56:51 PM
If version 5.xx is still working for you (even w/ the bugs and occasional lock ups) why spend $$ on the latest and greatest if it still works???...

Rick  wn2c

Still using vers 5.xx


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KB1NXE on May 16, 2013, 07:32:51 PM
I have been using HRD since the 4.X days.  I think the software allows me to automate my shack in a unprecedented way.  Back before Simon sold it to Rick and co, I was sending him $100 as a donation per year.  But then, I am a responsible ham...

Compared to other logging software that comes with a cost, it's pretty cheap for what you get.  Rig control, log book, digi modes, satellite and a mapper.  Price each (compared to those who charge a fee) and you'll find it's not that bad.

If you want free, go to DX Labs and use their product.  I personally don't think there is even a comparison between the HRD product and DX Labs when it comes to the user interface.  But that's a personal thing.

Just take this into account.  The ARRL just changed their URL for LoTW.  Users of HRD 4.X and 5.X will not be able to do automated LoTW up and down loads.  HRD 6.X users will...


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W8JX on May 16, 2013, 07:49:37 PM
I have been using HRD since the 4.X days.  I think the software allows me to automate my shack in a unprecedented way.  Back before Simon sold it to Rick and co, I was sending him $100 as a donation per year.  But then, I am a responsible ham...

You do not need to send 100/yr to be responsible. Do you send 100 a yr to MicroSoft without which HRD would be worthless.

Compared to other logging software that comes with a cost, it's pretty cheap for what you get.  Rig control, log book, digi modes, satellite and a mapper.  Price each (compared to those who charge a fee) and you'll find it's not that bad.

Not really, they do not want annual fees like that.

If you want free, go to DX Labs and use their product.  I personally don't think there is even a comparison between the HRD product and DX Labs when it comes to the user interface.  But that's a personal thing.

I do agree nothing match the code bloat of HRD. I have tried it but did not like it at all.

Just take this into account.  The ARRL just changed their URL for LoTW.  Users of HRD 4.X and 5.X will not be able to do automated LoTW up and down loads.  HRD 6.X users will...

And there is no reason that they could not supply a simple patch to 4x and 5x users for this. Instead they want 100 bucks for a fix. 


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on May 17, 2013, 01:39:19 AM
I have to agree with W8JX on most of his responses except the part about them charging to fix 5.xx that part is yet to be seen!

I totally agree that paying an annual fee is going to be a non stater for the vast majority of Hams and that issue is even less palatable when one factors in how immature the product is at this poi t in time. For example it's been almost 6 months since people purchased 6.0 and they are still waiting for many of the promised features that 6 should have had on day one.
Just imagine how long it will be before this Project reaches full Maturity!
Factor in the QRZ changes and you have several more additional releases on the horizon.
IMO they would have been much better off if they just offered fixes for at least 5 years or two complete revisions which ever comes first that would be kind of Like how Microsoft does it.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W8JX on May 17, 2013, 05:35:33 AM
I have to agree with W8JX on most of his responses except the part about them charging to fix 5.xx that part is yet to be seen!

I was referring to upgrading to 6x for the fix.

IMO they would have been much better off if they just offered fixes for at least 5 years or two complete revisions which ever comes first that would be kind of Like how Microsoft does it.

I agree this would be more the norm and as I said the LOTw issue could be fixed with a simple free patch.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on May 17, 2013, 04:05:25 PM

IMO they would have been much better off if they just offered fixes for at least 5 years or two complete revisions which ever comes first that would be kind of Like how Microsoft does it.

I agree this would be more the norm and as I said the LOTw issue could be fixed with a simple free patch.

I am thinking that owners should get free updates all the way to the point when version 8.0 is released.  After that the orginal owners of Ver6.0 are on their own, you can either buy Ver 8.0 at a reduced upgrade price or stay with your old Ver 6.XX and know that when it breaks your out of luck.   Of course this assumes that HRD follows normal version upgrade procedures and dont just jump to 7.0 or 8.0 because they added a few minor features.
Thats pretty much exactly how microsoft does it and very few people complain.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KB1NXE on May 17, 2013, 06:53:07 PM
JX and MJR.  The OP was looking for opinions on HRD.  If you have one, kindly offer it.  No reason to attack MY opinion.  I was not addressing either of you!


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W8JX on May 17, 2013, 08:18:38 PM
JX and MJR.  The OP was looking for opinions on HRD.  If you have one, kindly offer it.  No reason to attack MY opinion.  I was not addressing either of you!

The poster asked for opinion on upgrade which I gave. To require a user to purchase a expansive upgrade for just a simple URL fix is bad. Yearly fees are not good either. It sounds like someone is trying to mine HRD users wallets as much as possible and hopping after they sink hundreds into it they will keep doing it because they have so much invested. Called marketing 101


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K6ELE on May 17, 2013, 10:21:11 PM
I purchased v6 and I am pleased with the support and product. Did not use V5. Called them several times and someone always answered my questions or solved my problem. Very friendly, know the product, will remote to your PC to solve problems. Any of you have experience with tech support from overseas?
Used MixW for 4 years, then DX labs. Neither of  them have direct support, which is not expected for a free product. Sure you have the Yahoo groups to ask your questions, but no comparison to calling someone who can solve your problem now. I have spent many hours trying to solve problems with these other packages and days of waisted time waiting for Yahoo group help.
Interfacing hardware, sound cards, drivers, etc, and getting program features to work can be frustrating, so I am enjoying using this software with the support they provide.
Sure the Supersweeper needs work, but award tracking, worked station status, and other features make it work for me.

I have a software background in my profession, so lack of software experience is not why I choose HRD


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AA6YQ on May 18, 2013, 05:07:52 PM
Used MixW for 4 years, then DX labs. Neither of  them have direct support, which is not expected for a free product. Sure you have the Yahoo groups to ask your questions, but no comparison to calling someone who can solve your problem now. I have spent many hours trying to solve problems with these other packages and days of waisted time waiting for Yahoo group help.

A search of Yahoo membership records shows no evidence of your having been a member of the DXLab Yahoo group. I review and respond to DXLab Yahoo group posts several times every day, and have no recollection of any post from you, much less a request for help that went unresolved.

Reported defects in DXLab applications are given highest priority, and usually result in a corrected release within 24 hours.

     73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: N7SMI on May 19, 2013, 07:09:12 PM
I purchased 6.0 in July of last year based on their promises of frequent updates and bug fixes. Since that date there has been exactly ONE update (last week's minor update to fix the LoTW issue - one of their own making for not following LoTW's published protocols). There are still significant bugs that have not been addressed - in fact the bug list seems to be exactly the same as it was almost a year ago. If you check their online bug tracker, there doesn't seem to have been a single bug fix in the beta since January.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I don't see myself paying an additional $60 a year for the exact same software. Subscription software necessitates frequent and continual updates, and I see no substantive progress on this project in the last year, certainly not enough to justify my continued investment in it.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AF5FH on May 20, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
I'm not currently an Ham Radio Deluxe user, although I have tried it. Currently I am using DXLab suite, with additional software (JT65-HF and JT-Alert) to add JT65 capability. HRD does not give me anything I need that I don't already have with other software. 

You might try listing what software features you use, and see if other software that is not $60 per year subscription satisfies your needs.

Also, several folks I've chatted with recently on psk31 have told me they using HRD version 5. Of course, I've also had folks tell me they are using fldigi, MixW, WinWarbler, etc. Lots of different software out there that folks are using.

Jim, AF5FH


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD2CJJ on May 23, 2013, 07:49:05 PM
Seriously you can't complain for what is in this software.  I personally think its amazing compared to the other junk i have tried..and i have tried them all.lol!   I have developed and managed very large software development projects and HRD is very complex and comprehensive.  There are probably hundreds of man years of development in this product already.   I am only a ham for a year so I didn't have the befits of leaching on someone else's work for free for long.  I honestly could not believe this was for free when I first  tried-it. now that the software is mature and rich with features plus having support you now have to pay.  It's no different than buying photoshop or any other off the shelf software package.  The software could be more aggressively priced.. i agree its about $25 to 30 dollars too high.  And I do agree that support is very very high.  Most support contracts are no more than 25% of net.  Most Developers are not good businessmen thus that could be their demise.  With that said give them a shot for a year then decide if they lived up to their obligations.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on May 25, 2013, 09:35:50 PM
It's not $60 a year guys... it's an OPTIONAL $49.95 a year.. you dont HAVE to renew.

As stated in the PR, we're working on 6.1. Bunches of bug fixes... Joe Taylor is working on JT-65 and JT-9 with us inside DM-780 (including the GPL source for it), and lots more..

After 6.1, we'll do releases with every few bug fixes...  Mike (one of the other owners) had Erik focus on doing the reports for DXCC and other logbook stuff, and ive been focusing on the rest, including the new radios and day to day operations.

That's why Erik and I are working this weekend, like we did last weekend during Dayton to get the LOTW fix out (that was about 24 hours of work with Erik and I, the alpha and beta teams, etc).

We are still growing, thanks to the hams.  We need to continue to grow so I can hire another coder.  We've put alot of effort into support, which I feel is what sells a product (support after the sale gets repeat business), but we need to find another code who knows C++/MFC, Ham radio (DXing, digital, rotors, etc) and those are few and far between and costs about $100,000 a year.  Good coders are not cheap.  Look at some of the open source and you'll see how bad some code can be. ;)

BTW, we had a special at Dayton for the users who purchased before the 2/8/2013 release. We knocked $10 off the next year, so a few hundred hams are covered until 2015....  We are always doing deals.

So come and join us on the dark side.. we have cookies.. and $10 off with coupon code atlanta2013, for the Atlanta Hamfest next weekend.  Offer good until June,3, 2013

Best

Rick - W4PC





Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WA9PIE on May 25, 2013, 10:20:57 PM
Greetings folks.  I'm the founding owner of HRD Software.  I don't reply to a lot of this stuff, but thought I'd offer a few thoughts.

For the record, 5.24 isn't the latest release.  But like I've said before, we fixed a bunch of the bugs in 5.x... and if you like it... it's FREE... FOREVER.  Use it if you like it... use it forever for FREE.  That's completely fine.  Most of the folks complaining about the fact that three ordinary guys stepped up to keep HRD from becoming extinct have moved off of v5.0b and are using the most recent FREE version.  We must have done something right.

We're not making any money.  We'll take a loss every year.  All of us have regular jobs.  Our only expenses are related to employing a few hams to do development and some support.

The software maintenance plan (similar to what Microsoft does with businesses) is merely there to help support the development of new features.  If the features aren't of value to you, there's no need to do it.  You may change rigs at some point... a new rig where control was developed... and need the upgrade.  Buy back in later.  Guys, it's not a requirement... seriously.  As an incorporated business, we have no way to accept "donations".  So this is the only way to accommodate those who find value in staying current and wish to support us.  Even Microsoft won't give you a free upgrade to Windows 8.

As for reasons to buy 6.x, well... if you're not interested in the bug fixes and the lengthy list of new features we've added, then it's probably not for you.

The great thing about ham radio is that there are tons of hobbies within this hobby.  Some are DXers, some awards chasers, contesters... rag chewers... digital mode enthusiasts... satellite fans... emergency service... and much more.  In the 6.x releases, we focused on bug fixes, awards reporting, DX cluster improvements, digital mode improvements, and rig support.  A lot of work went into this by the few hams we have paid to do the development and the volunteers who help support the product.  And I'm very thankful for those volunteers because without them... and given that the rest of us have jobs that prevent us from being on forums all day... but without them, we would be in a world of hurt.

So guys... what I think HRD has is a sleek well-integrated suite of software for hams.  It's not for everyone.  Some may prefer other products that aren't so well integrated... or a variety of applications that aren't integrated at all... or applications that clutter the screen with tons of windows where you need to be a developer to figure out how to configure it.

But on behalf of my partners and me, we're simply going to continue our quest to make HRD the most compelling ham radio suite of software you can find.  If we succeed at that, I'm hoping you'll use HRD.  If we don't succeed at that, well... then we just don't deserve you as a customer.

73 de Mike, WA9PIE


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AA6YQ on May 26, 2013, 12:17:45 AM
Some may prefer ...  applications that clutter the screen with tons of windows where you need to be a developer to figure out how to configure it.

Right! When your application is missing functionality, accuse applications providing that functionality of cluttering the screen. What user would want the option to display a window that shows active DX stations so you can identify operating patterns, or shows which bands are hot, or shows propagation forecasts, or shows where to listen for the DX you need by band and time-of-day, or searches multiple web sites for QSL routes, or automates award submissions, or highlights errors in award credits? Having access to all that functionality would be terrible! - especially, if it were free.

     73,

           Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on May 26, 2013, 11:30:30 AM
DXLabs is a fine product, HRD is a fine product. Both have active development going on. The advantage Dave has is he wrote all the code and Simon wrote HRD. No matter how good a coder you are (and we even still talk to Simon a couple times a week), it takes time to find and fix issues...  since we have to do a trace in the code, rather than know the area it happens in.'

Same thing with my ROC TNC code, since I wrote 99% of it, it's easier for me to fix things since it was my logic.

For both DXlabs and HRD, it's like getting a FTDX-9000 in kit form, and only having minimal docs.  This is just the nature of the beast, as with any software company.  I remember my first day at Microsoft and going OMG, this code is insane.

At least I dont have a fellow coder stabbing my back like I did at a contract job! LOL.   He thought I wanted his job and my goal was to fix the bugs, make the $$$$ to buy HRD and get out of corp America. 

Dave and I met up at Dayton and got along great!   He's good people.





Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AA6YQ on May 26, 2013, 03:01:38 PM
I know that you and Erik have been working hard to drain the swamp, Rick, and am glad to hear that you'll be making defect repairs available more frequently; HRD users will appreciate it.

Our products compete, but we also collaborate and share common interests. Lots of ops use DM780 with DXLab, and we both depend on healthy ADIF and LotW developer communities. Coopetition can work when the players focus on highlighting their advantages rather than on denigrating competitive products. The working relationship that Simon HB9DRV and I established had largely survived your acquisition of HRD, but WA9PIE's descent to the dark side earlier in this thread is an ominous sign. I hope you'll nip that in the bud.

By the way, maintaining and extending DXLab is not at all like "getting an FTDX-9000 in kit form, and only having minimal docs". The architecture is modular, with loose coupling between the major components. The code has been refactored when appropriate, avoiding any serious accumulation of technical debt, and includes consistency checking that triggers an internal error logger if anything goes amiss. I'm significantly more productive now than when I started 13 years ago, in large part due to the idea flow from the DXLab user community.

It was good to meet you at Dayton, Rick.

     73,

            Dave, AA6YQ
   


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: F6DEX on May 27, 2013, 09:47:17 AM
Hello to all

Quote
applications that clutter the screen with tons of windows where you need to be a developer to figure out how to configure it

I just remember a time when HRD's team was very sarcastic towards (says) commercial software developers. I think this time is gone...

Anyway, I confirm these kind of software are very difficult to maintain : +100 transceivers with different behaviors on the market, +50 types of devices and all the various database ... + all combinations of the various elements of a station and all individual desires (+ multilanguage if english is not your mother language).

We're totally crazy to do that and no commercial company could seriously address this "market". Commercial/free distribution is a personal choice of the developper, probably nothing else.

Fortunately users are friendly and patients because it is not possible to be 100% perfect.

Let 's hope they will continue to have a choice between all available "soft" (full list on eHam).

Congratulations to you. Good luck to HRD, N4PY, DXLab, Commander, FTBasic and many others...
Laurent F6DEX
http://trx-manager.com


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: NK7Z on May 27, 2013, 11:04:48 AM
Look at some of the open source and you'll see how bad some code can be. ;)
Rick - W4PC
Look at some of the commercial software and you will see how bad some code can be ;)
Lets not start bashing Open Source...  To imply only open source produces bad software is a distortion of the truth.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K2CMH on May 29, 2013, 04:54:21 AM
Quote
Just take this into account.  The ARRL just changed their URL for LoTW.  Users of HRD 4.X and 5.X will not be able to do automated LoTW up and down loads.  HRD 6.X users will..

The question I have is why are the URLs hard-coded in the first place?  Anyone with any common sense would expect that those will change over time, so why not make them configurable values that can be changed by the user?


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AA6YQ on May 29, 2013, 05:04:28 AM
The question I have is why are the URLs hard-coded in the first place?  Anyone with any common sense would expect that those will change over time, so why not make them configurable values that can be changed by the user?

The URL in question provides access to web services, not access to a user-visible web page. Changes to web service URLs are unusual. LotW management intended to make the change in a way that was transparent to client applications, which is why they did not alert the development community beforehand.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WS4E on May 29, 2013, 05:33:44 AM
So, the question I would have for W4PC and the others who work on HRD6 now is this:

If something like LOTW up/downloads, or QRZ lookups etc breaks in HRD5, and its an easy fix will they update HRD5, or are they hard set on using it as a big stick to get people to abandon HRD5?

Personally, the answer to that will be a big part of the decision I make to ever go to HRD6.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K2CMH on May 29, 2013, 09:08:21 AM
>The URL in question provides access to web services, not access to a user-visible web page. Changes to web service URLs are unusual.

Yes, but changes do happen as we are currently seeing.  Good design dictates that 'magic' strings that could change should never be hard-coded, ever, no matter how unlikely they are to change.   


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K0IZ on May 29, 2013, 11:17:43 AM
I like and use TRX Manager.  Latest is $75 with free updates for 3 years.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on May 29, 2013, 03:58:28 PM
We stopped development of 5.x on 2/08/2013. It will continue to be free, but no more work is being done with it.

A good point was made here by one of the paid users.

" Besides as a paying customer of ver. 6, why should my
hard earned money be used to write software updates for a version that is not
supported or bearing any profit to the company?
73
Todd AC9EX"



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ham-ra.../message/39652


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: NK7Z on May 29, 2013, 04:03:37 PM
We stopped development of 5.x on 2/08/2013. It will continue to be free, but no more work is being done with it.

A good point was made here by one of the paid users.

" Besides as a paying customer of ver. 6, why should my
hard earned money be used to write software updates for a version that is not
supported or bearing any profit to the company?
73
Todd AC9EX"




http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ham-ra.../message/39652


Well said, the old HRD is just that, old, and unsupported...  The new HRD is new, and supported...  Had I spent the cash to buy HRD, I would do exactly the same as W4PC, and group.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on May 29, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
And.. $10.00 off this weekend with coupon code atlanta2013, for the Atlanta Hamfest


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 18, 2013, 03:51:09 PM
So, the question I would have for W4PC and the others who work on HRD6 now is this:

If something like LOTW up/downloads, or QRZ lookups etc breaks in HRD5, and its an easy fix will they update HRD5, or are they hard set on using it as a big stick to get people to abandon HRD5?

Personally, the answer to that will be a big part of the decision I make to ever go to HRD6.


We stopped development of 5.x on 2/08/2013. It will continue to be free, but no more work is being done with it.

A good point was made here by one of the paid users.

" Besides as a paying customer of ver. 6, why should my
hard earned money be used to write software updates for a version that is not
supported or bearing any profit to the company?
73
Todd AC9EX"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ham-ra.../message/39652


When the day comes and this happens I hope the HRD folks don't do that because I can assure you all hell will break lose between the Ham community and HRD.  I am almost certain that an anti HRD movement will start up very quickly if  HRD 5 owners feel like they are being forced to upgrade to 6.0 just because of a simple fix.

 My suggestion from day one was that HRD 6 needs to have a compelling set of features to make people want to upgrade and not for HrdSoftwarellc to be trying to force people to upgrade.  The last thing HRD needs is for people to be coming on forums asking what software to use and everyone saying get DXLab or some other software and for others to be saying that HRD is Vampireware, "stay away!!"

Right now I have cash that’s burning a hole in my pocket just begging to be used to buy HRD 6 but I am still waiting for the DM-780 to have the promised CW waterfall decoder. I am honestly thinking of going ahead with a purchase based on faith that this will come out soon but I am still a little hesitant because I am still wondering about the upgrade policy that Hrdsoftwarellc is offering on future versions.  It’s all well and good to say that "you don’t have to pay an annual fee" that you can keep using HRD 6.xx after the one year is up but what happens after mid 2014 if QRZ or LoTW decides to do another change?  Will I also be stuck like 5.xx owners???

I would love to hear from Hrdsofwarellc on what will happen to 6.xx owners who don’t pay the annual fee after the year is up.   I have been using HRD for almost 5 years now and not a year has passed when some sort of change was made to QRZ or something else that has caused HRD to stop working and honestly I am afraid that my 6.0 purchase will be greeted with the same response 5.xx owners are getting now from ver 6 owners, just with a little rewording by the new Ver 7 owners.


In Late 2014 will this be the new post?

" Besides as a paying customer of ver. 7, why should my
hard earned money be used to write software updates for Ver 6 owners who have not upgraded”



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WS4E on June 18, 2013, 04:01:44 PM
Supporting a $99 software program for only 12months is piss poor service.   



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 18, 2013, 07:24:34 PM
Supporting a $99 software program for only 12months is piss poor service.  

Honestly I don't know of another company that says if your software is broke after 1 year your on your own!  Even today in 2013 I am 100% certain that if a something happened to cause Windows XP to stop working that Microsoft even though they have discontinued support would still release a patch very quickly to get the user base up and running. (And yes that would happen as soon as the millions of XP users started to hit the news talking about how they cant access their data)   Even if I put aside Win-XP we can still compare Windows 7 which is still fully supported many years after it's release even though windows 8 is on the market.

What I am looking for from HRD is not a free copy of Ver7 when it comes out, just a guarantee of support for a reasonable length of time on the version that I paid for!  If I want the new features of Ver7 I will buy it, if not I expect at least a 3 year support period of free software patches for the version I already paid for.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on June 18, 2013, 09:27:51 PM
Discussing these issues with Mike (WA9PIE) one of the other owners, stand by.. :)

We do listen to the base.. 


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WA9PIE on June 18, 2013, 09:44:31 PM
Well, you guys sure make some good points.  To summarize, the question is this...

For folks who have purchased a copy of v6.x - what is our position on providing bug fixes to customers who are beyond the paid support period?

To answer that, first let me make a general statement and then answer the question more directly.

There's a term used when developers continue support for a previous version... while moving features into a new (and somewhat unique) code set.  It's called "forking the code".  Basically, every time you "fork the code", you end up with a new and unique code set to maintain.  To that end - we have two developers and can't afford to fork the code (which is why we can't go back to 5.x code).

To answer the question directly...

For folks who have purchased software... and we later find MAJOR bugs in the software... I believe we should extend support on a case-by-case basis to ensure that folks aren't expected to live with major software bugs forever... or feel like we're bilking money out of them for any reason.  I fully support the idea that our customers should have software that is useful and free of major bugs.

There could be some subjectivity about what a "major bug" is... but we'll know it when we see it.

Bottom line is this... we want you to use the software... we want the software to be useful.  We're committed to that.

But gosh guys... we simply took-up the task of keeping HRD alive so that the best program on the market could continue.  We're not making any money here.  We're not breaking even.  But we are taking a lot of grief for our efforts.  So just please understand... this isn't about making money.  It's only about making sure that you have a useful product.  We'll stand behind it... and we don't expect you to live with major bugs that render the software unusable.

Far too much is made over the 12 months of software support.  Heck, if you like v5.x... you're never required to pay for it and you can use it forever.  If you buy a copy of v6.x and it works for you... you're never required to renew support and can use it forever.  But if we don't continue to introduce new features and fixes... then shame on us for expecting you to renew support.

I respect you all... and your opinions.  I'm thankful for them.

Mike, WA9PIE


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 19, 2013, 03:26:23 PM
Hi Mike

I think I can speak for most of the others and say we greatly appreciated it that you took the time to come on the forum and address some of the concerns voiced in this thread, these same concerns as you also mentioned can be found on multiple forums and so it's great that you are listening and coming up with some solutions. We all know that the road with HRD has been very bumpy and I think most us can truly believe that it has not been a profitable venture but at the same time it seems to me that based on reading numerous forum threads that the reason that HRD 6.0 has not been embraced and therefore not profitable is mainly due to few factors.

1) Many people feel the price is too high.
2) An unpalatable policy on Version upgrades if they invest in 6.0
3) Uncertainty as to what will constitute a completed version 6.1 and how that affects current owners who may have been in Beta land for most of their contract.  
4) A compelling set of features that really sets 6.x apart from 5.x.  IMO that was CW Supersweeper a welcome addition that would have stopped me from needing to buy CW skimmer.

I guess my main question to you is why HrdSoftwarellc didn't approach the software release with the normal protocols that almost all software companies use

And to be more specific I mean an official declaration that:


1)   Software Patches and fixes for Major bugs will be free for several years not just one year.
2)   A lower price on the cost of the software and decouple the support from the price and charge separately for phone support.  In this day and age of forums why are people who can easily figure it out on their own being charged extra for those who can't?
3)   A Guaranteed list of features that Version 6.1 will have when it is complete.

I know that a few of these have been put out already but they have been put out in a very unappealing manor and at other time a very confusing manor that even conflicts with YOUR forum post. For example on the HRD FAQ you have this posted.

________________
Q: What happens when my Support Subscription expires?

A: At the expiration of your Support Subscription the software DOES NOT stop functioning.  The only thing you lose is access to the technical support and updates and patch fixes.
________________

This clearly indicates that at the end of one year there will be no more patches sent out.

Then on another part of the website it states.
_________________
Ham Radio Deluxe 6.0 retails for $99.95 for one year of support and upgrades. Those who have purchased 6.0 will get 6.1 and any other upgrades during that year at no additional cost. The optional support renewal after the initial year of support is ½ of retail, which is currently $49.95. Like 6.0, 6.1 will not stop working after the year of support if you decide not to renew
__________________

So lets say I am an early adopter from February or March of this year, at this point I have not yet gotten some of the big features that 6.0 promised and the bug list is still pretty long, yet I have already used up 1/3rd of my subscription and still have not gotten the completed product and worst yet I may get the completed product with only months left on my contract time and be facing the one year limit stated in the FAQ soon afterwards.

Mike I know that your saying “look it’s ok we will take care of you, we are reasonable people” but you have to understand that at the same time we are all looking at your FAQ’s one year statement and also the price and the rate of progress on completing version 6 and most of us are scratching our heads saying hey maybe its just better to wait until they get to ver 7 and lets just keep on going with Ver 5.x  for now.  Maybe at Ver7 they will lower the price and we will then have all the features completed.  Most will avoid the completed Ver 6 because they figure version 7 Beta will be on out just a couple of months later and it will have the core of the completed Ver6 and a fresh 1 year contact.

I think something along the lines of a very simple clear declaration like the one I described would really get your sales going by giving all of us who are on the ropes a feeling that the price is fairer and that the path forward is more clearly defined and more palatable.


All The Best
Robert
KD8MJR


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on June 19, 2013, 05:51:53 PM

1)   Software Patches and fixes for Major bugs will be free for several years not just one year.
         Yes, that is correct. We'll support 1 version back for major bug fixes for free, but no enhancements..  new policy thanks to you guys :)

2)   A lower price on the cost of the software and decouple the support from the price and charge separately for phone support.  In this day and age of forums why are people who can easily figure it out on their own being charged extra for those who can't?
         No one is being charged extra, it's all one price and that includes UPGRADES and SUPPORT, not just support.
         Everyone pays the same.  So no, no unbundling.   It's $99.95.

3)   A Guaranteed list of features that Version 6.1 will have when it is complete.
        Well yeah.. :)


While we're not making a profit, we are making enough revenue to HIRE people. 8 hams now have paying jobs in HRD, and like all companies, 75% of revenue is salary, and we're paying above average for above average people.

So , no, $99.95 is not too much to charge, we've even had a majority of people that have purchased that have said it's TOO LOW!   Several thousand in fact have joined up. This is not a one man operation anymore. See above. :)

A one trick pony like CW sweeper is $75, DX4Win $89.95  and Logic 9 is $119.95

We're less than $25 more on two of the above and less than the 3rd, and you get SO MUCH MORE.

QST has a review coming out in August...  can't wait for you guys to see that... Steve Ford tells it like it is :)

And if you dont want to buy, you can still use 5.24.38 for free.. forever.

Best


Rick - W4PC



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KB1NXE on June 19, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
I keep saying this over and over and over.  I would send Simon $100 A YEAR while it WAS FREE!!!!  If more of you did just that, all these discussions on price would BE MOOT!!!!!!!

The New HRD owners ARE A BARGAIN for me.  Because I footed THE REST OF THE BILL FOR THOSE WHO SENT SIMON NUTHIN!

Mike, Rick and the rest of the HRD team, please keep doing what you are doing despite the chronic negative comments from those who want Great Software for nuthin!


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 19, 2013, 07:38:31 PM
Hi Rick

Let me be the first to say that this is fantastic news  ;D
Two out of three is pretty good win for us consumers and it really shows that you guys understand the issues that we have expressed so I want to really thank you guys for making the changes to the support policy, it makes purchasing HRD a very easy decision. I also want to thank you and Mike for all the speedy replies.

I will be making my purchase of HRD 6 tomorrow so that I have the weekend to play with it :)

To the issue of decoupling the product from the support I really cannot complain, that is totally up to you guys but I would say that I think at some point in time you guys will wish you had done it for your own sanity ;)
 I wrote software for 10 years and it was the increase in support calls as more copies got sold along with VS7 upgrade issues that eventually forced me to give it up.  What I found was that once people knew that they had free support their Brains suddenly went into neutral every time they came across a problem.  I think that it was also support that was one of the big reasons Simon wanted out of HRD.  IMHO it's much better to just knock off $20 and charge separately for support or to offer two separate packages even if that means adding more than $20 for the package with support!   Personally I would have just done it on a per call basis because when people know they have pre-paid for support they use it but when they have to pay for it each time they call, then they check to make sure the Darn thing is plugged in before calling ::)

Anyway I am very happy with the change in policy and I think that anybody who has any doubts should also feel good knowing that for several years their copy of Ver 6 will be up and running.  Personally I can ask for no more and I think this change should calm all the fears about being stranded after one year and it should over the coming weeks create a nice increase in sales.

Thanks again
Robert
KD8MJR


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: WA9PIE on June 19, 2013, 09:03:29 PM
All,

I appreciate the kind comments.  Most of us are in the hobby - ham radio - to communicate.  To that end, this dialog has been good.  In the "absence of fact", people do what people do... "speculate".  So I can tell you that - without a doubt - our objective is to have a product that you can all embrace and say that this is worth your hard-earned money.

I'll also say that - we made a conscious decision that - given we were not making progress as quickly as we would have preferred - we did increase the price so that we could add people who can tackle (a) eliminating bugs, (b) supporting the product, (c) finishing features introduced, and (d) work on new things (but honestly, this is a small area at the moment).

If folks haven't seen the improvements to Logbook... well... I'm not sure what to say.  QST will feature an article about HRD next month where these improvements were noticed by the reviewer.  But until we added improvements in DX cluster (worked status indicators) and awards tracking, I was STILL using a 15 year-old version of Log Windows to get over the shortcomings in HRD in those areas.  DM780 has had improvements.  To acquire all these things separately, it would add up to 2x to 3x the cost of HRD.

We're gaining control over this more and more each day.  But 140,000,000 lines of code don't fix themselves.  The user interface is elegant, but the code is complex.  We're not deterred by the detractors... we're encouraged by the fans... but we don't take ourselves so seriously that we think we know more than you do.  We're listening... taking you seriously... and want you to know that.

Mike, WA9PIE


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: N4UM on June 20, 2013, 01:37:36 PM
The "market" will sort it all out just like it does everything else.  My gripe with HRD is not with HRD, it's with so many operators that inflict the canned HRD macros on me,  For example,  the operator was "created in..."  Does "created" mean conceived or actually delivered into the world?


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on June 20, 2013, 02:08:59 PM
The "market" will sort it all out just like it does everything else.  My gripe with HRD is not with HRD, it's with so many operators that inflict the canned HRD macros on me,  For example,  the operator was "created in..."  Does "created" mean conceived or actually delivered into the world?

I think that's just a phenomenon of the PSK-31 users.  Macros have been used for the digital modes even in the DOS and CP/M software days..

But not as big as an extent as many of the PSK-31 users.

Me, Im a DXer... and I can send "de W4PC 5NN TU" with my Vibroplex :)



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 24, 2013, 01:56:43 AM
I installed HRD 6.0 on Saturday and decided to test drive it for at least 24 hours just to make sure I had no issues. The Installation went smoothly, it migrated all my settings, com ports, rotator and logs just fine and after a couple of hours I had the screens setup the way I wanted.

I made the purchase on Sunday and hope to have my keys pretty soon. Overall I am liking what I see, its a nice improvement over 5.24 but I have seen a few minor issues and some changes that are taking time to get use to.  I am looking forward to getting the beta version and seeing if they have fixed the few bugs I found.  I will post back after playing with it some more.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K2CMH on June 24, 2013, 04:28:55 AM
If you have the time, I would be interested in some additional detail on the points you mention below.  I have been wondering
about those items myself but have been hesitant to actually install 6.0 to check them out for myself.

>its a nice improvement over 5.24

>but I have seen a few minor issues

>and some changes that are taking time to get use to.


Thanks,
Carlton


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 24, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
If you have the time, I would be interested in some additional detail on the points you mention below.  I have been wondering
about those items myself but have been hesitant to actually install 6.0 to check them out for myself.

>its a nice improvement over 5.24

>but I have seen a few minor issues

>and some changes that are taking time to get use to.


Thanks,
Carlton


I just received the keys this morning, although getting them by email is really just for your own records in case you want to manually install them if you have no internet access.  The software seems to get automatic key updates from their servers so even before I opened the email it was already set for a 1 year expiry date from the 30 day date I was seeing the day before.  It’s exactly the same as most of the Anti Virus software update engines.  I am not a big fan of visible time limits on software even if this one will not render it useless.

Quote
its a nice improvement over 5.24
It is a nice improvement, mostly in the Logbook.  The ability to see little icons on the cluster that show if you ( worked the country / worked the country on this band / worked the station /  QSL Status / is he Lotw / is he eQsl /)  Plus several other thing that makes the cluster much more useful for knowing who you need to work for getting band fills and new modes.

There are numerous other little tweaks that make the HRD experiences better, its too long to list but most are not new features just things that make old features work better or in some cases they now work  ;)

I have not had much time to work with the Awards section but it does seem to have a lot of new additions and features added to it.

Quote
>but I have seen a few minor issues.
Since most of the changes are in the Logbook you would expect that the issues will also be in the Logbook and that’s the case.

1) The first thing that I noticed is that the “World Map with the grey line” no longer centers my location on the Map.  Instead I end up being all the way on the extreme left side and the India/China boarder are now in the center of my map  :o  Hmmmmm  ;) and there is no way I can change that.  This pretty much makes the grey line map useless until the problem is fixed.

2) The LoTW status indicator on the cluster list is not accurate.  When it shows a station as an LoTW member its correct but on the other hand it does not recognize all stations that are LoTW members as being members. I have had several stations show up with no “L” indicator but when I go to QRZ it shows that they do use LoTW.  HRD6 uses some sort of compiled database of LoTW users that it updates itself, but does not seem to reference QRZ for the lotw Info.  In all fairness to HRDllc I have heard QRZ is not all that accurate for listing LoTW members but IMO why not use both this compiled database and QRZ together and do a simple “OR” statement when deciding to check off the LoTW box!

  I would rather take my chances and make a QSO and find out later that he was not on LoTW and live with the knowledge that at least I have him in the Log, rather than passing him over completely and find out later that he was indeed an LoTW member and I let a $$ Free Band fill pass me by.

3) I ran a quick test and worked a station to see if it would show up as worked in the cluster listing but it did not.  This forced me to make a support phone call, which ironically was not needed for installation and configuration LOL.  I was told that it could be because of the order in which I have my lookups setup in the config settings.  When I get home I will test that out and let you know.  For now I consider it NOT to be a bug, but just an improper setting on my part.

Quote
>and some changes that are taking time to get use to.
 
All the Icons that I described in the “Nice Improvements” section end up being a double edged sword.  I look at them and I get confused as to what it all means.  Keep in mind you have complete control on how many of these you want on the screen but the minimum I found was 5 for getting a good sense of who you need to work.
It also means that I now have to figure out what all 5 are telling me!  This is one of those things that will just take time to get use to.  The old HRD 5 use of a simple  Green check with a Plus in it was a lot simpler but it also had a lot less info.   I will get back to you guys later about my opinions on this new system and let you know if it’s just a case of getting use to it or if it needs to be stream lined better.

Lastly the “lookup” column on the left hand pane is much more detailed but I really really wish that I could sort which boxes I wanted on top and which is second etc. It really needs customization.

The Wikipedia integration is a nice feature I just wish they did not use the “Globe” icon to activate it.  This is sort of counter intuitive as globe means map and I expect google earth to come up not wikipedia.

So far I am very happy with the software, it’s much more polished than 5.24 and has a lot of nice additional features.  Any bugs I have encountered will most likely be squashed in the next release.

I want you guys to understand that I am looking at this with a critical eye, I don’t own any stock in the company and our relationship has been a bit rocky from day one.  When I say certain things I am more or less pointing out mostly the negatives which are what most people are going to Harp on when they shell out $100 for something that use to be free, so what I am doing is letting you know what to expect.

 The positives with this software are numerous and would take a huge post to list, but at the end of the day I guess for $100 most of you are expecting a lot of positives and in terms of polishing of features in HRD5 and I can say that ver 6 delivers that. For some users the enhanced Award tracking will be that must have feature, for others it will be the cluster and logging updates but for me I can’t say it has a must buy feature yet. That feature for me is promised for ver 5.1 in the CW Sweeper and I have no doubt they will deliver it.

BTW I was under the impression that all paid owners could access the Beta Version, I think that info was posted before on several forums, yet I am now told that by support that I cannot access it  >:( I wish I could have seen that version because I think it probably had fixes for several of my issues and it would have had the CW super sweeper which is the main reason I decided to get the software.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 24, 2013, 11:44:05 PM
I had a great night tonight using HRD 6.0  ;D
It's really a pleasure not to encounter some of the nagging problems I had with 5.24
Also one thing I realized tonight is that both installations are sharing the same log so I can go back and forth between versions and see the changes they have made between both versions. All the settings remain separate but the Log is shared. ;D

 If you where fearing taking the 30 day test drive this makes the idea more comforting because your 5.24 remains intact and you can just go back to it when you want to and your logs will have everything you entered under 6.0
 Just make sure to select that option when installing 6.0 and make sure to export your log before starting the install so you have a backup just in case.

BTW the tech dept was right, a change to the order of my database look up list fixed the issue with the cluster not showing that I had made a QSO with stations I had already logged and were currently listed in the cluster.




Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on June 25, 2013, 07:17:24 AM
6.1 isn't solid enough for a public release yet.    That's why Im having my beta team POUND on it.



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on June 25, 2013, 04:49:47 PM
6.1 isn't solid enough for a public release yet.    That's why Im having my beta team POUND on it.



I am really looking forward to it.  I like what I am seeing in Ver 6.0 so I am sure it will only get better with 6.1 :)
BTW when you said 140,000,000 lines of code I assume you meant 1,400,000 because 140 million lines would seem to be an impossible number ???


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4PC on June 26, 2013, 11:00:44 AM

I am really looking forward to it.  I like what I am seeing in Ver 6.0 so I am sure it will only get better with 6.1 :)
BTW when you said 140,000,000 lines of code I assume you meant 1,400,000 because 140 million lines would seem to be an impossible number ???

1.4 million is HRD proper, about 5 million or so in all the programs (DM780, HRDlog, etc)



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KE6NVU on July 24, 2013, 12:11:37 PM
Hi I have just downloaded HRD and i took me 1 day to get the rig control to operate perfectly and the logger program is flawless so far. the rotator control is very easy to operate and runs my yeasu 1000 first time out of the download.  I did have a question and Tim kb3nph help me with no problems as it was operator error. He stayed on the phone and we had a chance to chat the 6.1 upgrade will have fewer issues and be more strait forward I think. I received my key to operate the program with in 24 hours.  Hint erase the first key then enter the new key seems to work better.
I was impressed with Tims overall knowledge was excellent and that he was a volunteer astounded me he is the best reason to buy the program.

I enjoyed the logging program and rig control i recommend it highly.  ;D


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on July 25, 2013, 04:10:46 PM
Yes it's really very good software.  With 6.1 I now have numerous Awards being properly tracked and I also love the way it displays cluster information.  It kind of got me even more interested in Ham Radio because I am at the point when an ATNO is very rare for me but with the new Cluster Info I can quickly see if a listed station is needed for a Band fill.  I am now obsessed with turning those little Yellow Marks to Green and having all entities on all Bands being worked.

Also the reliability level from 5.24 is outstanding.  I think that 6.x has only crashed once on me and that turned out to be a known bug that they will be fixing in the next release.   With 5.24 I would get a crash during almost every session, especially if I used DM-780.  So I have to say I am very happy at how stable the release is.

The CW decoding in DM-780 was also impressive. I found it to be on Par with CWget but since HRD has a waterfall and can decode several CW stations at once it makes it a klot more useful.

HRD 6.1 is Well worth the money, especially since you now get new fixes going through 2 major releases instead of just one.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K3DCW on July 26, 2013, 05:29:33 AM
And keep in mind, the v6.1 posted on HRD's website is still a BETA version.  There will undoubtedly be more tweaks before the final 6.1 is released, so it will only get better.


73

Dave
K3DCW


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: N0IU on July 26, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Also the reliability level from 5.24 is outstanding.  I think that 6.x has only crashed once on me and that turned out to be a known bug that they will be fixing in the next release.   With 5.24 I would get a crash during almost every session, especially if I used DM-780.  So I have to say I am very happy at how stable the release is.

I know it is the kiss of death to say this, but I am running 5.24.0.38 on a "vintage" (vintage = more than 3 years old) Dell running Vista and I have absolutely no issues with crashing, freezing, etc. I also have DM780 open all the time and use digital modes quite a bit.

If you are experiencing any crashing on any version, there may be other things crawling around inside your PC!

Of course now I have now invited Murphy into my shack!


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on July 26, 2013, 06:42:52 PM
You must be very lucky or possibly you only use a limited set of the available features.
If you look at the hrd forums you will see hundreds of complaints of the OLDER 5.x version crashing in both the logbook and dm-780.

The newer 6.1 has almost no crash issues.



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: N0IU on July 26, 2013, 08:36:36 PM
Maybe I am just lucky!

Of course the core program is running for rig control, but I never actually use the GUI to control my radio. I mean the radio is right in front of me anyway!

And of course the logbook is always open along with the DX Cluster. The only other tab I have up is the QRZ lookup page.

The only other program that is open is DM780... even if I am not using it.

I also do run FSK RTTY and since I am still using v5, I open up MMTTY. You know, this alone almost enough to make me free up a spare Benjie for v6 since switching back and forth between programs is a bit of a pain.

I try to take luck out of the equation as much as possible by keeping my anti-virus and anti-malware programs up to date.  Also, my computer is dedicated to the shack. It is not the general family computer that is bombarded with who-knows-what from "questionable" sites on the Internet.

I better quit talking about my system now before my luck runs out!


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: N4KIT on July 29, 2013, 02:04:36 PM
I know it is the kiss of death to say this, but I am running 5.24.0.38 on a "vintage" (vintage = more than 3 years old) Dell running Vista and I have absolutely no issues with crashing, freezing, etc. I also have DM780 open all the time and use digital modes quite a bit.

Some of you may recognize by my call that I am on the beta team and do Alpha testing.  I do that on 2 machines - A Lenovo Win7 laptop and an Acer desktop that runs (fully updated) Vista on 2 GB of RAM - you could say I represent the "least common denominator" hi hi.  With the exception of an occasional DM-780 stutter, 6.1 beta runs very well on the Vista box.

73,
Chris - N4KIT


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AJ4RW on July 31, 2013, 04:07:54 AM
Chris, I love HRD and have been an avid fan for about 4 years now.  It's the best all-in-one program I and a few of my friends have found and you guys are very responsive to bug problems.  But the new Version 6 series still has a way to go in my opinion for fixes.  I see you've been assigned my cases and was wondering if the problem with FSK could be the set up instruction provided by Microham / Microkeeyer 2?  FSK works great for other programs though.

I still love HRD though, just would like to go back to running version 6.

73 Randy AJ7G


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: K2CMH on July 31, 2013, 04:38:06 AM
One of the main features I would like to see working is the printing of QSL labels and address labels for QSL cards.   The current incarnation does not appear to be ready for prime time (as of beta 6.1).  For example, on the address labels, many addresses print on a single line while others print correctly.  To verify that it was not bad data, I printed the same labels using N3FJP as well as a label printing program designed to work against the HRD logbook database, both programs did fine with the labels.  On the QSL labels, the print is so small you can barely read it and the 'year' column of the Date is too small and truncates the year.   

Carlton


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on August 01, 2013, 09:27:47 PM
Because HRD is a total package covering almost everything related to station operations it will take a bit of time to fix all the little bugs, but keep in mind that they have fixed and added so many things already that it really builds serious confidence with the user base and makes version 6.1 an incredible achievement and truly worth the money.

I am really enjoying the stability and features and the best part is that the good stuff keeps on coming :)


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: W4ATK on August 09, 2013, 01:48:48 PM
 I am just getting back to a PC based shack after venturing off into Mac land. My first move was to install the 30day HRD trial on a Win8 machine. Immediately I had some problems and had self diagnosed it as permissions and was working toward that end. I backed my efforts up by posting an email off to support and immediately got a response telling me it was not my computer and not HRD. Tim (HRD support) sent me a couple of files and said if I had trouble to call him.  I did. I immediately got to Tim and he remotely accessed my machine, did all the right things and I am one happy camper.

Now, you get what you pay for. I paid 100 bucks for MacLoggerDX to run on a Mac. So paying for an initial license to HRD, No problem! How do I feel about the annual support fee for updates and new versions and subscription support. For the kind of support I got today, I will gladly pony up the $60.  I have been a software developer and a program like HRD boggles my mind. Millions of lines of code. It costs money to maintain such a complex and expansive piece of software. This isn't something a hobbyist has time to do. Get real guys, it is only a few bucks, a couple of Chinese HTs. :)  My check is in the mail!


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KD8MJR on August 10, 2013, 01:01:57 PM
The annual fee is only if you want the next version, assuming new versions come out annually.
The updates to the version you paid for will keep coming for two years.
And yes Tim is a great guy to talk to, he knows his stuff.



Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KJ4VVU on August 30, 2013, 07:20:56 AM
I'm somewhat disappointed in Version 6.0.x   Maybe it's me or the new computer with Windows 8.0 but on the logbook on the "Lookup" tap on the left.... it's not displaying correctly like version 5.0   The pull down slide bars are frozen.....don't work.  On the DX Cluster Spots section..... what does column C  B  M  S  = mean?  Didn't see it the pdf manual.  Speaking of the manual..... it's needs a lot more info on changing and setting up the different tabs.

I was happy with version 5.  This paid version needs a lot more work. 

KJ4VVU
Joey   :(


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KB3NPH on August 30, 2013, 07:34:10 AM
I'm somewhat disappointed in Version 6.0.x   Maybe it's me or the new computer with Windows 8.0 but on the logbook on the "Lookup" tap on the left.... it's not displaying correctly like version 5.0   The pull down slide bars are frozen.....don't work.  On the DX Cluster Spots section..... what does column C  B  M  S  = mean?  Didn't see it the pdf manual.  Speaking of the manual..... it's needs a lot more info on changing and setting up the different tabs.

I was happy with version 5.  This paid version needs a lot more work. 

KJ4VVU
Joey   :(

The items you claim are issues with you are just a matter of settings.  Have you tried to contact support?  They could fix you right up in just a matter of a couple minutes.


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KJ4VVU on August 30, 2013, 08:40:45 AM
I did call support as suggested.  He fixed me up.  Downloaded version 6.1.x and it's working fine after changing a setting in the configuration section.   :) :) Thanks.

KJ4VVU
Joey


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: AB4D on September 02, 2013, 02:05:46 PM
what does column C  B  M  S  = mean?  KJ4VVU
Joey   :(

The CBMS in the DX cluster window is an indicator of whether you worked a spotted station by Country, Band, Mode, and the exact same Station that was spotted.  It's my understanding, as an example, say station ZL1XX is spotted on 20 meters running CW, HRD will compare the spot information to your logbook and will let you know by a Green check mark or Red X, if you have ever worked that country, on 20 meters, using CW, and whether you have worked that exact station.

73


Title: RE: Your thoughts on Ham Radio Deluxe 6.xx
Post by: KB3NPH on September 02, 2013, 05:21:46 PM
Mike (WA9PIE) did a nice video on YouTube about the WSIs (Work Status Indicators) (CBMS=).  You can also see what each icon means by clicking on the DX Cluster OPTIONS and on the "Appearance".

The Link to Mike's video is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wk4BSrHHpw