eHam

eHam Forums => Station Building => Topic started by: KG4OLW on June 25, 2013, 11:32:11 AM



Title: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KG4OLW on June 25, 2013, 11:32:11 AM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on June 25, 2013, 04:06:07 PM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KH6AQ on June 25, 2013, 05:03:14 PM
The IMD specs for the KXPA100 have not yet been published and so comments on the IMD are speculative.

The KX3 has 3rd order IMD (measured by the ARRL) of 36 dB relative to PEP. According to Mr. Zenki this meets the NTIA standards for marine radios and he considers marine radio IMD performance to be something for amateur transceiver makers to strive for.

Amps in the running:
KXPA100 at $700
HL45B (45 watts) at $450
Ten Tech at $785
RM Italy HLA 150 at $330


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KG4OLW on June 26, 2013, 01:45:53 AM
That is exactly what I was thinking. the kxpa100 looks amazing, and I am sure it is a top notch amp, however is it worth $1000 for essentially a 100 watt external finals kit for the kx3. I just don't know, especially when you can get the tokyo high power amp on ebay new for less than $300... Has anyone who has a kx3 decided to get one yet?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: K2CMH on June 26, 2013, 05:10:12 AM
It is indeed pricey, however, there are a couple of things that set it apart from others:

1) Integrated tuner
2) Tight integration with the KX3
3) Small size

Now, whether those benefits are worth the extra $$$ to you is another matter.



Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KH6AQ on June 26, 2013, 05:56:56 AM
Compare the base KX3 and base KXPA100 as a pair at $1600 against the K3/100 at $2100 and it looks like a fair deal.

I bought the KX3 and sold my K3.

I ordered the KXPA100 with the ATU.  





Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KF7DS on June 26, 2013, 06:34:44 AM
Compare the base KX3 and base KXPA100 as a pair at $1600 against the K3/100 at $2100 and it looks like a fair deal.

I bought the KX3 and sold my K3.

I ordered the KXPA100 with the ATU.  





Brave ham Grasshopper!

Actually I was considering the same thing but the KX3 has no provision for an Rx antenna like the K3. Deal killer as there are quite a few times during the year that 40m and 80m would not be doable without the Rx antenna.

Don KF7DS


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KG4OLW on June 26, 2013, 11:59:12 AM
What do you use for an rx antenna on 80?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: K5TR on June 27, 2013, 10:43:30 AM
Actually I was considering the same thing but the KX3 has no provision for an Rx antenna like the K3. Deal killer as there are quite a few times during the year that 40m and 80m would not be doable without the Rx antenna.

Yes - that is a downside to using the KX3 for the low bands.  There are solutions - but they require external boxes to switch between RX and TX antennas.  One thought I had was that Elecraft could make the 2nd antenna port on the amp to be the RX antenna port.  And then make a way for the radio to control it as such.  It seems like it would not be hard to do.

The KX3 is a fine little radio but it cant have everything - and still be a little radio I guess.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: K5TR on June 27, 2013, 10:48:58 AM
That is exactly what I was thinking. the kxpa100 looks amazing, and I am sure it is a top notch amp, however is it worth $1000 for essentially a 100 watt external finals kit for the kx3. I just don't know, especially when you can get the tokyo high power amp on ebay new for less than $300... Has anyone who has a kx3 decided to get one yet?

To be fair - the amp only price is $700 adding the tuner brings it up to $1000.

The price slows me down - esp. since the main reason I like the radio is that it is small and and has
batteries in it and I can just take it and some wire and be on the air. 

And yes that does give one pause - but I suspect that Elecraft will have no trouble selling a lot of them.
Many of the other 100 watt amps do not cover 160-6 meters with full auto switching etc.  Maybe we will see
others come on the market since Elecraft has sold quite a few KX3 radios so far.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AD9DX on June 27, 2013, 06:09:32 PM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

Jesus Christ! Do you ever freaking quit?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on June 28, 2013, 03:35:25 AM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

Jesus Christ! Do you ever freaking quit?

Are you asking whether Jesus Christ ever freaking quits or whether I ever freaking quit?

If you are asking about me, when it comes to bad splattery 12 V CB type amp designs like the KXPA100, no I make sure that they are pointed out.   You obviously have a problem with someone stating their opinion.  

The KXPA100 is only a small notch above the RM Italy amps, but the KXPA100 costs way too much.  A Ham radio manufacturer should strive to produce much better equipment than a manufacturer who caters to illegal CB operation.  As for cost, Elecraft is famous for gouging customers on its accessories.

If you don't like my comments, please feel free to put me on ignore.  I won't mind.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AA9G on June 28, 2013, 04:48:30 AM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

Jesus Christ! Do you ever freaking quit?
Don't feed the trolls, Jon.  ;D


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: K7PEH on June 28, 2013, 09:49:07 PM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AD9DX on June 30, 2013, 07:25:43 AM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

Jesus Christ! Do you ever freaking quit?

Are you asking whether Jesus Christ ever freaking quits or whether I ever freaking quit?

If you are asking about me, when it comes to bad splattery 12 V CB type amp designs like the KXPA100, no I make sure that they are pointed out.   You obviously have a problem with someone stating their opinion.  

The KXPA100 is only a small notch above the RM Italy amps, but the KXPA100 costs way too much.  A Ham radio manufacturer should strive to produce much better equipment than a manufacturer who caters to illegal CB operation.  As for cost, Elecraft is famous for gouging customers on its accessories.

If you don't like my comments, please feel free to put me on ignore.  I won't mind.

Why, in your infinite wisdom on amps don't you create something that is both commercially viable AND doesn't "splatter" like a CB amp?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KD8MJR on June 30, 2013, 07:09:05 PM
I am not sure why swl2002 says it will be a splattering CB amp, I see no proof of that but I will say that the price is very high for an amp in that power range.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on July 01, 2013, 03:37:44 AM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH

We know what MOSFETs they are using.  Its another Mitsubishi splatterbox.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: NR4C on July 02, 2013, 11:13:23 AM
In comparing prices of amps for the KX3, note the KXP100-F (Factory Built) is $749.00 not $700.  To be fair, all the other amps in the list were factory built and not all were 100 Watts.

...bill nr4c


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AE7WC on July 02, 2013, 04:08:00 PM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH

We know what MOSFETs they are using.  Its another Mitsubishi splatterbox.

Could you please quote your sources for the BOM info and functional characteristics?  Inquiring minds want to know.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AE7WC on July 02, 2013, 05:25:47 PM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH

We know what MOSFETs they are using.  Its another Mitsubishi splatterbox.

SWL2002 - "Bob" please give your personal creds for this kind of post.  I am an EE out of UC Berkeley, 1976, so you can be as technical as you want as I have been around the block a few times in the last 37 years.  Since you are unwilling to give a call sign or email this leads one to think one of the following:
•   You are an Elecraft employee and your conscience is causing you to be a whistle blower and are credible.
•   You are an industrial spy as the design info is proprietary and has not, to my knowledge, been released and may be credible.  (You did use the term 'we know what MOSFETS...')
•   You work for a competitor and are trying to discredit Elecraft's efforts (see above).
•   You are clueless and just like to get a rise out of people and see your comments on line.
I am not actually trying to slam you as, if you are right, I don't wish to waste my money on poorly made equipment.  So fire away - my email is listed if you don't want to post.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KE7TMA on July 03, 2013, 09:57:16 PM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

You've tested an amplifier that just came out this past week?  Or are you just making assumptions and pronouncements based upon the fact that it isn't Japanese and $4000?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KE7TMA on July 03, 2013, 09:58:06 PM
I recently purchased and built a kx3 400x serial. I love the radio and I have taken it to parks and many other outings. However I find 10 watts just not enough for reliable enjoyable ssb contacts. 10 watts is fine 90% of the time for cw contacts, however a big part in my deciding to purchase this rig was the fact that Elecraft was developing a 100watt amp, and i figured this rig, could serve as a good home station that I could unplug and throw in a bag for portable qrp work. They recently announced the new kxpa100 watt amp. The amp is beautiful and I am sure it works great, but it is kind of pricy. I know you get what you pay for but at this price point for only 100 watts it puts a great many other amps in play. Take a look and tell me what you all think.

http://www.elecraft.com/tmp/kxpa100.htm



Another 12V splattery CB type amplifier.  Not good at all.

Jesus Christ! Do you ever freaking quit?

It's his job.  The Japanese are really suffering because they finally have some competition.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KH6AQ on July 04, 2013, 06:54:14 AM
Elecraft has never specified IMD for their products so we might have to wait until the ARRL reviews the KXPA-100 to know the actual IMD performance.

What might we predict based on Elecraft's track record? Two older products, the K3/10 and K3/100, have 3rd order IMD of -27 and -28 dB respectively. Two never products, the KX3 and the KXPA-500, have 3rd order IMD of -36 dB and -34 dB respectively. It appears that Elecraft has cleaned up their act, so to speak, and we might expect the KXPA-100 to be a clean amp.




Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on July 04, 2013, 11:58:59 AM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH

We know what MOSFETs they are using.  Its another Mitsubishi splatterbox.

SWL2002 - "Bob" please give your personal creds for this kind of post.  I am an EE out of UC Berkeley, 1976, so you can be as technical as you want as I have been around the block a few times in the last 37 years.  Since you are unwilling to give a call sign or email this leads one to think one of the following:
•   You are an Elecraft employee and your conscience is causing you to be a whistle blower and are credible.
•   You are an industrial spy as the design info is proprietary and has not, to my knowledge, been released and may be credible.  (You did use the term 'we know what MOSFETS...')
•   You work for a competitor and are trying to discredit Elecraft's efforts (see above).
•   You are clueless and just like to get a rise out of people and see your comments on line.
I am not actually trying to slam you as, if you are right, I don't wish to waste my money on poorly made equipment.  So fire away - my email is listed if you don't want to post.


You can ask me anything EE related and I can answer you.  My credentials are my knowledge and I will match my knowledge with you any time. 

You can be in denial all you want about Elecraft's crappy TX performance but it is true.  I have nothing against the company Elecraft except that like most other Ham radio companies, they are safely in the CB amp category with their transmitters.  Pointing this out is NOT an attempt to hurt Elecraft's business.  Most of the technically incompetent appliance operators we call Hams today don't know the difference and don't care, so Elecraft is going to be OK.

AE7WC, please give your SSN so we can verify your "personal" credentials.  Maybe you are an Elecraft employee dispatched to the group to defend the company?



Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on July 04, 2013, 12:00:29 PM
Elecraft has never specified IMD for their products so we might have to wait until the ARRL reviews the KXPA-100 to know the actual IMD performance.

What might we predict based on Elecraft's track record? Two older products, the K3/10 and K3/100, have 3rd order IMD of -27 and -28 dB respectively. Two never products, the KX3 and the KXPA-500, have 3rd order IMD of -36 dB and -34 dB respectively. It appears that Elecraft has cleaned up their act, so to speak, and we might expect the KXPA-100 to be a clean amp.




Boy, that is a real stretch! Are you being paid by Elecraft to say this on eHam?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KH6AQ on July 05, 2013, 10:07:46 AM
SWL2002, let me see if I can help out. You are stuck in a rhetorical Mobius loop and are not gaining traction in arguing your point.

Argumentation consists of Logos, Ethos, and Pathos; technical argumentation is usually confined to Logos and Ethos. But you are using Pathos and many here are questioning the Ethos behind your arguments. That is why you are failing to effectively argue your point.

Logos involves logic, numbers, and is objective.
Ethos involves the credibility of the speaker.
Pathos involves the emotions, is subjective, and has no place in technical argumentation.  

Your credibility is brought up again and again because we don't know who you are. To bolster the Ethos of your argument we must know your name and call sign. To bolster the Logos of your argument you must back up your argument with factual numbers and the sources of these numbers. And your argument would be strengthened further if you refrain from employing Pathos ("CB splatter box, crappy, etc."). And you are using what I call deflection, which is to attempt to deflect the focus from a pertinent point to something that sounds the same but does not matter. For example, when asked your name and call sign, which are pertinent to the discussion, you ask for the person's SSN, which does not matter to this discussion.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: AE7WC on July 05, 2013, 03:18:35 PM
Yes, the new 100-watt amp is expensive but it is far from a CB amp.  I don't know SWL2002 but unless he works for Elecraft or is a beta-tester, he knows nothing of what he is talking about.  After all, it is not even available yet.  Knowing Wayne and Eric at Elecraft (plus the other designers) this amp will be top notch.  It is actually cheaper than a few other amps in the same category but not by much (not enough to buy dinner for two at a pizza house).

As for me, I own the KX3 as well as  K3/100 and also the KPA500, P3, KAT500, KX1, and other radios and amplifiers too; BUT, I will not be buying the 100-watt amp because I am just fine using the KX3 as my QRP rig and with CW this works just fine for me -- no need for more power.  As for SSB, I have actually only used SSB once with the KX3.  All other activity has been CW.

73, phil, K7PEH

We know what MOSFETs they are using.  Its another Mitsubishi splatterbox.

SWL2002 - "Bob" please give your personal creds for this kind of post.  I am an EE out of UC Berkeley, 1976, so you can be as technical as you want as I have been around the block a few times in the last 37 years.  Since you are unwilling to give a call sign or email this leads one to think one of the following:
•   You are an Elecraft employee and your conscience is causing you to be a whistle blower and are credible.
•   You are an industrial spy as the design info is proprietary and has not, to my knowledge, been released and may be credible.  (You did use the term 'we know what MOSFETS...')
•   You work for a competitor and are trying to discredit Elecraft's efforts (see above).
•   You are clueless and just like to get a rise out of people and see your comments on line.
I am not actually trying to slam you as, if you are right, I don't wish to waste my money on poorly made equipment.  So fire away - my email is listed if you don't want to post.


You can ask me anything EE related and I can answer you.  My credentials are my knowledge and I will match my knowledge with you any time. 

You can be in denial all you want about Elecraft's crappy TX performance but it is true.  I have nothing against the company Elecraft except that like most other Ham radio companies, they are safely in the CB amp category with their transmitters.  Pointing this out is NOT an attempt to hurt Elecraft's business.  Most of the technically incompetent appliance operators we call Hams today don't know the difference and don't care, so Elecraft is going to be OK.

AE7WC, please give your SSN so we can verify your "personal" credentials.  Maybe you are an Elecraft employee dispatched to the group to defend the company?



I find it irritating that you won't give your call sign as it is easy then to blast away from anonymity (otherwise known in blog-space as a 'troll').  That being said, I don't want to pi$$ away $1000 when I could get something better.  What amp would you suggest?  Yes, I am a humble new HAM "appliance operator" with the intention of becoming more (CW, DIY radios and antennas, etc.).


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KE7TMA on July 05, 2013, 03:21:43 PM
Elecraft has never specified IMD for their products so we might have to wait until the ARRL reviews the KXPA-100 to know the actual IMD performance.

What might we predict based on Elecraft's track record? Two older products, the K3/10 and K3/100, have 3rd order IMD of -27 and -28 dB respectively. Two never products, the KX3 and the KXPA-500, have 3rd order IMD of -36 dB and -34 dB respectively. It appears that Elecraft has cleaned up their act, so to speak, and we might expect the KXPA-100 to be a clean amp.




Boy, that is a real stretch! Are you being paid by Elecraft to say this on eHam?

Are you actually claiming that his figures are inaccurate?


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: TANAKASAN on July 13, 2013, 03:32:55 AM
The KXPA-500 is very clean and a quick test on one of the units confirmed the IMD spec of -34dB. The main reason for this is probably the built in 50V power supply because, as I said elsewhere on EHam, homebrew amplifiers that run on 28V and 48V/50V have been found in my tests to have lower IMD.

The moment I saw the 12V Powerpole connector on the back of the KXPA-100 my heart sank, Elecraft really dropped the ball on this one. I am of course willing to be proved wrong and I await an IMD test with interest.

Tanakasan



Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: KE7TMA on July 17, 2013, 09:17:59 PM
The KXPA-500 is very clean and a quick test on one of the units confirmed the IMD spec of -34dB. The main reason for this is probably the built in 50V power supply because, as I said elsewhere on EHam, homebrew amplifiers that run on 28V and 48V/50V have been found in my tests to have lower IMD.

The moment I saw the 12V Powerpole connector on the back of the KXPA-100 my heart sank, Elecraft really dropped the ball on this one. I am of course willing to be proved wrong and I await an IMD test with interest.

Tanakasan



You, Zenki, and SWL2002 all seem to have identical views on a wide variety of topics.  Perhaps you three should get together.

Anyway what kind of portable equipment runs on 50v?  Nothing in the amateur world.  Maybe some military gear but the receivers in those rigs are garbage from what I have seen.

Is there any principle in electronic theory that proves that 12v amplifiers are unreliable or splattery?  I haven't come across any theories that vindicate your assertion.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on July 18, 2013, 03:20:23 AM
The KXPA-500 is very clean and a quick test on one of the units confirmed the IMD spec of -34dB. The main reason for this is probably the built in 50V power supply because, as I said elsewhere on EHam, homebrew amplifiers that run on 28V and 48V/50V have been found in my tests to have lower IMD.

The moment I saw the 12V Powerpole connector on the back of the KXPA-100 my heart sank, Elecraft really dropped the ball on this one. I am of course willing to be proved wrong and I await an IMD test with interest.

Tanakasan



You, Zenki, and SWL2002 all seem to have identical views on a wide variety of topics.  Perhaps you three should get together.

Anyway what kind of portable equipment runs on 50v?  Nothing in the amateur world.  Maybe some military gear but the receivers in those rigs are garbage from what I have seen.

Is there any principle in electronic theory that proves that 12v amplifiers are unreliable or splattery?  I haven't come across any theories that vindicate your assertion.

You are showing your ignorance here.  There is no reason why the radio cannot run on a 12 V supply while still having a 50 V PA supply.  Haven't you ever heard of step up convertors?  This is how the new Palstar TR-30 works.  It is better to not interject yourself into these discussion if you have not done your homework.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: SWL2002 on July 18, 2013, 03:25:55 AM
SWL2002, let me see if I can help out. You are stuck in a rhetorical Mobius loop and are not gaining traction in arguing your point.

Argumentation consists of Logos, Ethos, and Pathos; technical argumentation is usually confined to Logos and Ethos. But you are using Pathos and many here are questioning the Ethos behind your arguments. That is why you are failing to effectively argue your point.

Logos involves logic, numbers, and is objective.
Ethos involves the credibility of the speaker.
Pathos involves the emotions, is subjective, and has no place in technical argumentation.  

Your credibility is brought up again and again because we don't know who you are. To bolster the Ethos of your argument we must know your name and call sign. To bolster the Logos of your argument you must back up your argument with factual numbers and the sources of these numbers. And your argument would be strengthened further if you refrain from employing Pathos ("CB splatter box, crappy, etc."). And you are using what I call deflection, which is to attempt to deflect the focus from a pertinent point to something that sounds the same but does not matter. For example, when asked your name and call sign, which are pertinent to the discussion, you ask for the person's SSN, which does not matter to this discussion.


You really need to take a nappy break for a while.  You are taking this stuff all too seriously.  Your pedantic post says much more about you than me.


Title: RE: kx3 with kxpa100
Post by: W1JKA on July 18, 2013, 04:36:28 AM
Re: KX3 with KXPA 100

Any special reason why this subject has turned into an introductory course of Psych 101? Starting to sound like a Dr. Fill M. Fullersheet show.