eHam

eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: LB5KE on August 08, 2013, 02:42:04 PM



Title: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: LB5KE on August 08, 2013, 02:42:04 PM
I can see that some European media in the last weeks also claims that RF is being monitored. I would imagine that of course RF is interesting, but that it deepends where and why? For example i would imagine that every. sort of transmission from let's say Syria is being monitored by many. But that a 2m VHF transmission in Europe or the US, CB c19 in Alaska and so on is not monitored.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: N4JTE on August 08, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Well the only thing I am sure of is judging by the ham bands, is that the FCC ain't listening to anything!
Bob


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE4JOY on August 08, 2013, 04:00:49 PM
LOL....  ;D

I'm pretty sure they aren't listening to the hash from my fluorescent lights ... though then again ...  8)


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: TANAKASAN on August 09, 2013, 02:37:22 AM
There are various military bases scattered around the world and not all of them are the standard accommodation for troops or aircraft facilities. In my travels I've seen quite a few HF beams on bases especially log periodics so I suppose they could have been listening to me on 20m last night.

Google 'Menworth Hill', 'Teufelsberg', 'Aflandshage', 'Santahamina' and 'Conil' for some European examples

Tanakasan


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: G7MRV on August 09, 2013, 02:59:56 AM
Various governments, particularly the US, UK and AUS, and Russian, monitor great swathes of spectrum. They are not 'listening' as such, the computers look for activity patterns, particular emmission types etc, and it detected, then the system will record snapshots for later analysis. It is impractical, and indeed utterly pointless, to monitor everything.

Contrary to what a lot of tinfoil hat wearers and conspiracy theorists think, governments really are not interested in what the average joe is talking about. But they are interested in unusual emissions, which can indicate a new type of radar for instance in use by another state, or unusual activity patterns.

The patterns of activity on our bands are pretty random, but do show certain trends. The monitoring services can therefore ignore these trends.

Monitoring of spectrum is an immensely expensive task, and analysis of emission type (elint) and content (sigint) even more so. This is why any service that transmits very critical information, for instance GBR on 16kHz, actually transmit constantly, sending mostly endless trash information, as this forces any interceptor to expend vast amounts of time, effort and money on analysis.

RAF Menwith Hill is to the north of my QTH, and USAF/RAF Croughton further south, RN Forest Moor to the east. These are all classed as monitoring stations, but they are also comm stations as well (Croughton being part of the USAF GHFS, Forest Moor being TASCOM)

Far easier is to intercept modern comms whilst they are in terrestrial systems, ie microwave and fibre, or from satelite. Monitoring of VHF/UHF is pretty much impractical anyway without a monitoring station every 20miles or so

As usual, the media pick up on what is otherwise normal, sensible security operations, and sensationalise it into something it isnt


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE3WD on August 09, 2013, 11:27:25 AM
Think about it, to successfully monitor the HF ham bands would take a separate human operator for each and every transmission.  Not gonna happen. 

As for the military bases having log periodic antennas, that's for their own comm links.  Again, not enough personnel to monitor ham bands. 

Also, there likely isn't anyone left in our military able to copy the CW bands...

Save the tinfoil hat to wrap the leftovers in. 


73


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE7TMA on August 09, 2013, 04:17:01 PM
Think about it, to successfully monitor the HF ham bands would take a separate human operator for each and every transmission.  Not gonna happen. 

As for the military bases having log periodic antennas, that's for their own comm links.  Again, not enough personnel to monitor ham bands. 

Also, there likely isn't anyone left in our military able to copy the CW bands...

Save the tinfoil hat to wrap the leftovers in. 


73

I don't think anybody is suggesting that everything is monitored in real time, but rather that the RF spectrum is being recorded and later analyzed.

This tinfoil hat bullcrap is obsolete now that we know the NSA is monitoring everything everybody does online.  Please get with the times.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: WA9YOZ on August 10, 2013, 06:45:42 AM
Wondering if the US government is using the "Infinity transmitter" to monitor ANY conversation in any room thru your landline while the phone handset is resting in its cradle? Some call it the "black box" and was banned for sale on the market several years ago by the government.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: W1JKA on August 10, 2013, 06:56:33 AM
Don't know about the " Black Box " but watch out about what you do or say around the new : Smart TVs " even when turned off.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: AA4PB on August 10, 2013, 07:00:49 AM
Oh ya - NSA knows everything you are going to think, even before you think it. If only someone would invent a BS filter then we could eliminate 90% of the news broadcasts.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE3WD on August 10, 2013, 07:55:28 AM

This tinfoil hat bullcrap is obsolete now that we know the NSA is monitoring everything everybody does online.  Please get with the times.

I'm certainly "with the times" - I'm not, however, "with the masses" regarding a lot of current issues, preferring instead to think for myself. 

The harsh truth is that the amateur bands have ALWAYS been subjected to monitoring, "the times" have nothing at all to do with that. 

Ever heard of the OO's? 

Among others. 

More to the point, what exactly is it that you are saying on the ham bands that you are afraid of being monitored about? 

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/ (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)


73


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: SWMAN on August 10, 2013, 08:24:16 AM
 I could care less if the Bozos monitor me or not, it gives the clowns something to do while they at work.


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: K0JEG on August 10, 2013, 10:27:54 AM
I could care less if the Bozos monitor me or not, it gives the clowns something to do while they at work.

Until Bozo and Agent Smith from the IRS get together and find out you haven't been reporting your income from selling stuff on Ebay...


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE7TMA on August 12, 2013, 10:19:10 PM
The harsh truth is that the amateur bands have ALWAYS been subjected to monitoring, "the times" have nothing at all to do with that.

I suppose dragnet surveillance of all internet traffic is OK by you too?  After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.  Privacy is overrated, no?


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: G3RZP on August 13, 2013, 02:58:43 AM
They certainly cannot monitor EVERY RF transmission. Radio controlled models, garage door openers, remote controlled lights/window blinds/radiators - you would need a 'DC to daylight' monitoring receiver in every home, model aircraft flying facility, model boating lake etc as well as every mile or so along the railroads. Anyhow, why would they want to know about the braking and power on a freight train?


Title: RE: Is every RF transmission beeing monitored by NSA and others?
Post by: KE3WD on August 13, 2013, 09:31:16 AM
The harsh truth is that the amateur bands have ALWAYS been subjected to monitoring, "the times" have nothing at all to do with that.

I suppose dragnet surveillance of all internet traffic is OK by you too?  After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.  Privacy is overrated, no?

Except that nowhere did I state any sort of approval on my part. 

Merely an observation that this is nothing all that new. 

Do you know that ALL Amateur Radio was shut down by the gummint during WWII? 

Calm down.


73