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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: WA3MD on August 31, 2013, 11:28:33 AM



Title: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA3MD on August 31, 2013, 11:28:33 AM
So I am looking to maybe try new logging software. I have used XM Log for the past 12 years and really like its simplicity but I was looking for something to incorporate both LOTW QSL records and regular paper QSL records a little easier.  What does everyone find the best log program for this? I use N1MM for contests.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on August 31, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
So I am looking to maybe try new logging software.

What does everyone find the best log program for this? I use N1MM for contests.

There is a TON of discussion on what is the Best Logger in  this forum. It seems every week someone starts yet another Best Logger discussion.

Try using search.

FWIW Commcat is the Best Logger for Dxers, Award Tracking and LOTW.
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA3MD on August 31, 2013, 06:50:20 PM
Hmm. I read through some threads on logging software but didn't seem to see much specific to the question I asked. That's why I made a NEW topic.  My goal is for easier QSL managing software i.e tracking cards sent/received/LOTW  and award tracking.  Just want some feedback from others as to what they use and like and why. I feel XMLOG is a little "clunky" and not user friendly for my liking when it comes to QSL tasks. Its a great general logger but want to see if there is something better for my needs.

I thought this was a forum to discuss software???


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N7DC on August 31, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
Well, it appears each piece of software has its backers, and those who don't like it.  As for me, after some 16 years of keeping electronic logs, I have wound up with the DXLab suite of programs.  It has thousands of users, with more coming aboard daily.  The author, Dave, is absolutely the best "support squad" of them all.  He has been recognized by major publications, and dx clubs for his programs and his almost instant support, from just answering a quick question, to actually sitting down and adding to, or correcting errors that have cropped up.  Those, by the way, are few and far between.  You can take it easy, just activating one or two of the suite programs, at first, is a good idea, until you are comfortable with what you have, and then add the others as you go along.  Oh, and did I mention that the suite is FREE, and Dave does put in hundreds of hour a month in support of his baby.
Danny
N7DC


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: KC2TN on August 31, 2013, 08:09:36 PM
  :D  :D  :D
DXLab suite is the most comprehensive logger available. If you want to make operating a joy you've got to try this program. It will do ALL that you want and beyond. If it doesn't Dave will probably add it. I've been using his program for the past 12-13 years, almost from its infancy. I have seen it grow in features. It has also been reliable from the beginning. It's modular structure lets you use the features you want and can be used with most rigs available from yesterday and today. AND you can't beat FREE along with outstanding support! Join the email reflector and you usually get a response to a question within the hour if not minutes.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: W6SA on August 31, 2013, 08:21:23 PM
I agree 1000% with the comments on DXLab Suite.  It makes operating remotely much easier than it was using WriteLog, from a tuning standpoint as well as having all the options that can be set and adjusted.  HRD may have a prettier GUI but DXLab does most everything I want it to and you can't beat the price.  Dave offers fantastic support along with several others who assist with sticky issues which are few and far between.

There are regular updates to applications and databases which are brought to your attention as they become available.

You can't go wrong with DXLab.

73 de Walt, W6SA


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: W6DE on August 31, 2013, 09:35:11 PM
DXLab already has a few responses here. I'll try to hit your Questions about QSLing.  DXLab's logbook is DXKeeper and it has an associated app DXView.  DXKeeper integrates QSLing via LoTW and via Cards.  The LoTW function is all operated from within DXKeeper, just click a few buttons is all it takes.  

Today I worked TZ6BB on 17 meters CW.  Tonight, I clicked a few buttons to 1) check how many QSOs needed uploading to LoTW and 2) to then send those QSOs to LoTW.  About 15 minutes later I clicked another few buttons and received notice that TZ6BB had confirmed my QSO via LoTW.  

When I get a larger bunch of confirmations waiting on LoTW, I'll go to the Check Progress function within DXKeeper and click a few more buttons to generate a DXCC submission list, go to LoTW and from the list select those pending confirmations I need, pay my money to ARRL and wait for the ARRL's notice of processing.  Then I'll go back to Check Progress and with a few more clicks, automatically mark all those LoTW confirmations I needed from that list as Verified.

I have about 100 Card confirmations that DXKeeper can build an application for too. I'll go to the Check Progress and it'll will build me a list of those cards to get checked (or send to the ARRL) and DXKeeper will build me an adif file to up-load to DXCC online that matches the cards (keeping me from hand entering those 100 or so cards by hand). Then after I get the card list signed off by my local card checker, I'll send that signed list and my money to ARRL and wait for the ARRL's notice of processing.  Then I'll go back to Check Progress and with a few more clicks, mark all those Card confirmations as Verified. [Confirmed is when you have the QSO's QSL card and/or a QSO match on LoTW, Verified is when the ARRL agrees you have made the contact and notes it in your DXCC records.]

In addition, DXKeeper will build a printable progress report for your complete DXCC records.  
If I want to know my DXCC status for Mali, TZ6BB who I just worked, I'll click the DXKeeper log book entry for TX6BB and my entire TZ status shows up in DXView all modes, all bands, and status (i.e., unworked, worked, confirmed, verified).
Just starting to match up your Log Book with the ARRL records?  DXKeeper will get your records from the ARRL (via LoTW) and tell you the mismatches.

I have been using DXLab since I got back on the air in January 2011 and I find it great for my managing my DXCC records.  There are a lot of features, take your time to get familiar by using just a few of the functions/apps at the start--go ahead and install them, just don't try to learn them all at the same time.

Regards,
Dave w6de


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: KW4G on September 01, 2013, 02:58:36 AM
Like asking what is the best car to buy, you will likely get several responses that xyzlogger is the absolute best. I have tried LOGic, Ham Radio Deluxe, XMLog, FLDigi, and even some Linux loggers, like CQRLog. The logger that I use is called DXLabsuite. It is a suite of programs that includes rig control, logging, spotting, path lookups, propagation prediction, and some other features that I have probably overlooked. It is a modular program that allows you to use just the parts you are interested in. It includes integrated support for LOTW, eQSL, Clublog, as well as paper QSL'ing. While it is not the simplest program to learn, the modular design means you can start with one module, learn the ropes with it, then move on to add the next module. The best thing about the program is the online support. There is a mailing list on Yahoo! Groups where the author, and a number of support experts answer questions. Unlike a lot of other lists, you will not be called names or have your lineage questioned if you ask a question. Usually questions are answered within a matter of minutes. The documentation is extensive, and there is an online wiki to complement the mailing list. Point your web browser to http://www.dxlabsuite.com for more information. 73 and good luck.

Roy KW4G


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 01, 2013, 05:01:11 AM
I thought this was a forum to discuss software???

It is and Logging software has been discussed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Why not just try the Logger demos out yourself and make your own decision on what logger is the greatest. They all have trial periods. Do you really need someone else telling you what to use?

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 01, 2013, 05:04:31 AM
I feel XMLOG is a little "clunky" and not user friendly for my liking

Clunky and not user friendly? You just described DXLabs....

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: KU1T on September 01, 2013, 05:20:40 AM
Started with HRD, used also fldigi/Genlog. Finally settled on DXlab.

pros: - full automation of eQSL/LOTW/award tracking. Focused on DX work, with superb filtering of DXclusters. Extensive array of auxiliary programs - will interact/log with N1MM,  fldigi, SpotSpy, DXAtlas. Will do real time tracking of progress for paper hunter; is designed to support QSL-ing. Still under active development, with very vibrant user community and author very responsive to questions.

cons - runs natively on Windows, and I cannot convince David to port it to Mac...  It is a large suite; it is not a 15 minutes start, but one is well rewarded with features and functionality.

Yep, the software suite was critical in helping to accomplish my objectives and keep track of my on the air activity. 

vy 73, de KU1T.
_zjt


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: F1MQJ on September 01, 2013, 06:04:46 AM
DXlab user for about 10 years and appréciate it :
For dxkeeper (logger)
+full automated electronic qsl Lotw eQsl
+ good qsl card sélection and printing (It´s not global qsl but why Maud some think That already exists) + you CAN easily export adif for IT
+ very good award help (runing with spotCollector=cluster client which tell you d'Henri a missing préfix or dxcc is on the cluster)
= Dave is fully behind his product with better service (based on yahoogroups) than professionnal software
With some other helpers for support and also some ADD-on (spot spy to improve spot collectif Search for iota or russian Island ...
+ for those who want automatisation commander with pathfinder do the job (cat command for TX, and rotor command
+ very often ADD-on interface for leader produits to work with DXlab data for exemple FLDigi which i préfer to winwarbler for Numeric modes
The only minus i CAN see is the need to learn some function (so Many function need a littoral learning)
Very often on yahoo group you ask a question on a probaly new feature and the answer is : IT s already In giving the wiki page to set IT Up
Remi F1MQJ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: W2LK on September 01, 2013, 07:32:46 AM
I started a with a DOS program called microlog which I converted to DX4WIN years ago. For many reasons I began trying other loggers and then I switched to DXLab Suite about 5-6 years ago and have never looked back. Here's why. As has been mentioned, Dave's support is second to none and the user group is friendly and extremely helpful. If you have a problem, you usually will get a supportive answer in minutes from a number of people in the group if not from Dave himself. If there is a real issue that seems hard to solve with an email dialog, Dave will often ask you to do certain things and send him certain files to analyze. It doesn't get better than that.

There are a suite of programs, each with different, but closely aligned functions that all automatically communicate with each other. You can use one or more by simply installing them and they each know the others are there. Other posters have mentioned functionality but I'll try to give you a quick overview.

DXKeeper is the log. It can track lots of awards in realtime, the status of QSLs for every QSO by LoTW, card or eQSL, if you prefer, and a boatload of other information. Uploading to LoTW is a two or three click process that is completely automated. Updating your log for QSLs received via LoTW is one click. You can print QSL labels or cards or export the data to another QSL label or card maker. Entering QSOs while on the air is easy. One of the best things is a report that compares your DXCC status with what the ARRL has and details differences so you can fix them. The list of capabilities goes on and on.

Commander interfaces with your radio so when you log a QSO, the frequency and mode are automatically entered correctly.

SpotCollector connects to the internet and receives spots and can tell you which of those you need for a new band mode or country or other award. Click on the spot and Commander automatically puts your radio on that frequency. DXKeeper simultaneously opens an entry to log the QSO. You fill in name, qth, etc and click the log button when done.

DXView will show your status for the country of the spot you just clicked. How many bands and modes you worked it on and if each of the band/mode combinations has been QSLed, confirmed or accepted by DXCC. If you see that you worked a band/mode but never QSLed, click on the box and DXKeeper will give you the list of all the QSOs for that band mode so you can tell it what to do for QSLing.

There are more QSO/QSL related programs in the suite like automatic propagation prediction, etc. but there is also WinWarbler which runs RTTY, PSK and CW. You make a QSO with WW and the logging into DXKeeper is automatic with frequency, mode, QSO details, etc.

All of this is controlled with DXLab Launcher which you click to start or close any or all of the other applications. It also notifies you of program or database updates that need to be done. Again, a simple few clicks to update anything.

I've only scratched the surface and the rub is there is so much that it can be overwhelming to start but everything is well documented, the support is there and you don't have to master it all at once. You can start with DXKeeper and go from there as you get comfortable.

By the way, converting from another log to DXLab is a piece of cake too. Create an ADIF file from the other program and import it to DXKeeper. It's worth trying.

GL. 73, Les W2LK


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AI4PF on September 01, 2013, 09:39:25 AM
I am not by training or education what you might call a "technical guy". As a result, I stumbled around the world of Ham Radio like the proverbial blind squirrel looking for an acorn, but I persevered. One day, by chance, I came upon DXKeeper. That led to the rest of the DXLab suite. One by one I took them on, and the world of Ham Radio gradually opened up to me for the first time.

For a non-technical guy like me, no program for logging, DXing, etc., no matter how worthy otherwise, is worth using if there is little no real support. Dave provides prompt, informed answers to all inquiries. That is the "jewell in the crown".

Bill, Ai4PF
 


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K4KGG on September 01, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
   DXLab's DXKeeper is great for QSL management and award tracking. It has every feature you could possibly want, but is user friendly for those choosing to ignore some features. Documentation is outstanding. If you can follow directions, you can make this software do what you want it to do. It's primary author, Dave, AA6YQ, constantly answers questions on the related Yahoo group. The software is being continually improved with programming help from many DXers. This program has the kind of wide-based support that suggests it will be around for the long haul. Freeware doesn't get better than this.   K4KGG, Larry


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA3MD on September 01, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
Sound like I will be trying DXLab Dxkeeper. Thanks for the detailed info guys!! Sounds like exactly what I need.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA3MD on September 01, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
I thought this was a forum to discuss software???

It is and Logging software has been discussed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Why not just try the Logger demos out yourself and make your own decision on what logger is the greatest. They all have trial periods. Do you really need someone else telling you what to use?

Stan K9IUQ

Sorry to offend you with my thread. I count at least 15 log books just from google alone. I really think it would be pointless to first download all of the trials and go through them when there is a forum of people who have probably tried most of them and may have some educated input. Maybe you have more time then me?  Why don't you like DXLab ??What makes it "clunky"?


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 01, 2013, 02:55:33 PM
Sorry to offend you with my thread. I count at least 15 log books just from google alone. I really think it would be pointless to first download all of the trials and go through them when there is a forum of people who have probably tried most of them and may have some educated input. Maybe you have more time then me?  Why don't you like DXLab ??What makes it "clunky"?

Nothing offends me, I am an experienced forum poster .  ;) :D I tell the truth as I see it and that does offend many hams.

I do have time, I am retired and in the last couple of years have tried every logger I could find that had a trial. Why don't I like DXLabs? I have been thru that explanation in other threads here, it does not need re-hashing.

DXLabs is popular as seen by all the DXLabs defenders here. Dxlabs is FREE and hams always like free. Free Loggers like DxLabs will always be more popular than Loggers that cost $$. If DXLabs cost $$ it would not be popular as there are several $$ loggers that out log DxLabs.  ;) :D

For me Dxlabs was worth just what I paid for it- zero. For that I am thankful.

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA3MD on September 01, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Sorry to offend you with my thread. I count at least 15 log books just from google alone. I really think it would be pointless to first download all of the trials and go through them when there is a forum of people who have probably tried most of them and may have some educated input. Maybe you have more time then me?  Why don't you like DXLab ??What makes it "clunky"?

Nothing offends me, I am an experienced forum poster .  ;) :D I tell the truth as I see it and that does offend many hams.

I do have time, I am retired and in the last couple of years have tried every logger I could find that had a trial. Why don't I like DXLabs? I have been thru that explanation in other threads here, it does not need re-hashing.

Ok OM GL. Thanks for all your input.  :-\

DXLabs is popular as seen by all the DXLabs defenders here. Dxlabs is FREE and hams always like free. Free Loggers like DxLabs will always be more popular than Loggers that cost $$. If DXLabs cost $$ it would not be popular as there are several $$ loggers that out log DxLabs.  ;) :D

For me Dxlabs was worth just what I paid for it- zero. For that I am thankful.

Stan K9IUQ



Ok OM GL. Thanks for all your input.  :-\


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N4IAG on September 02, 2013, 10:01:30 AM
In this thread there are 8 first time posters all singing the same praises for the same exact software. Most shills are a little less obvious.  ;)


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 02, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
In this thread there are 8 first time posters all singing the same praises for the same exact software. Most shills are a little less obvious.  ;)

Interesting is it not? I thought perhaps I was the only one that noticed that. What has surprised me is AA6YQ is not here advertising his baby like he has done in the past on other Logger threads. Perhaps eham told him they were going to charge him advertising rates the next time he got in a logger thread.....   ;)

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial. Figure out what works for YOU. Instead of following the Logger Pied Pipers.

Logger Pied Piper definition: "A ham who offers others strong yet delusional opinions about Loggers."

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AB4D on September 02, 2013, 12:29:01 PM
Recently, I began looking at various logging/station support programs. I'm almost finished with my trial period of HRD.  It took about a day to get everything up and running, and to become comfortable with the program suite.  The logbook/dx cluster/rig control/rotor control works very well together. It's basically pick a station off the cluster, the log book prepares to log the contact, make the exchange, and save it in the logbook.  A few mouse clicks and it's done.  The rotor control program automatically turns the beam towards the intended contact. I haven't experimented with the digital program (DM780), or the satellite tracker.  Nevertheless, I have been very happy using HRD. 

I also want to look at Commcat as well.  I like the fact that Commcat offers an interface for remote operation using Apple "i" products.  I suppose, most of these program suites produce the same end results, the real differences is the user interface.  DXLabs seems like a one man show, a lot of posters in support of DXLabs kept referencing the same thing over and over, Dave this and Dave that. That is all fine and well, unless he becomes unavailable, then all support will stop.

73


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 02, 2013, 01:58:58 PM
Recently, I began looking at various logging/station support programs.

Nevertheless, I have been very happy using HRD.  

I also want to look at Commcat as well.

That is all fine and well, unless he becomes unavailable, then all support will stop.

I too liked HRD but it is not worth $100 to me. I do have the last free version of HRD but only use DM780. Before that I used Logic ( 8 ) Logger thru many versions, However when they asked for $89 for an update to Logic 9 I said no way and started looking at other , more reasonable priced loggers. I dearly wanted to love DXLabs, I like free too. Free is good. However even after several tries of using of DXLabs I finally decided I did not like the confusing (ugly) interface or all those little programs one has to run.

Commcat is my present logger and has been for over a year. I like it very much.

Becoming "unavailable" is a problem much ham software has. I remember buying Wincap Wizard several years ago. This was an outstanding Propagation program and support was excellent. Unfortunately it was a one man show and the fellow went SK. No more support or updates, and even worse it was a "protected program" and every time you changed computers you had a problem.

HRD seems to have many programmers, which is very good "insurance" for anyone  who buys it.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 02, 2013, 04:56:42 PM
DXLab's modular architecture, its comprehensive documentation, and its non-existent backlog of reported but uncorrected defects have enabled me to make multiple new feature-bearing releases every month for the past 13 years. DXLab's open programmatic interfaces have enabled many developers to build new applications that complement DXLab (e.g. SpotSpy) and enable existing applications to interoperate with DXLab (e.g. MultiPSK). While I'm only 61 and in great health, these characteristics will also enable a smooth transition to the next generation of DXLab developers ~30 years from now.

Contrast this with the difficult and far-longer-than-announced transitions observed in products with monolithic architectures, sparse documentation, and large numbers of reported but long-uncorrected defects.

    73,

          Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 02, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
Contrast this with the difficult and far-longer-than-announced transitions observed in products with monolithic architectures, sparse documentation, and large numbers of reported but long-uncorrected defects.

Since you have worked on it for 13 years I think it is time to develop DXLabs to look like and function like a real Windows program. Heck you can not even maximize the DXLabs windows with the maximize button to fill the screen. Instead you have to stretch them. No Drop down menus. In DXView depending on what you click on, the window changes size to dinky and back to large. It will give you a headache if you do it often. Heaven help you if you use anything like large fonts on your computer. Some of DXLabs will be unreadable.

DxLabs Interface needs a lot of rework.

13 years ain't that long. I remember buying Logic JR at a hamfest on a disk for $20 back around 1991. In fact if my memory serves me correctly the Logic Logger was the first with the adif file. In Fact I think "Hosenose" developed the original adif file. If I am wrong please correct me, my memory ain't what it used to be.  ;)

Logic 9 is still around. It is probably the best logger I have ever used if you can afford it.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 02, 2013, 08:04:42 PM
Since you have worked on it for 13 years I think it is time to develop DXLabs to look like and function like a real Windows program.
Heck you can not even maximize the DXLabs windows with the maximize button to fill the screen.

Correct. Since Windows was originally developed ~25 years ago, continuing improvements in display technology and reductions in the cost of RAM have yielded inexpensive high-resolution displays. DXLab exploits this by providing the user with lots of relevant information beyond the usual fare: realtime displays of active DX stations, realtime displays of actual propagation, amplifier and tuner settings for the current frequency, "ham phrase" translations in the languages your current QSO partner is likely to speak, to cite a few. Thus most DXLab users have multiple windows on-screen simultaneously; many have multiple monitors to maintain instant access to the information they consider most useful. If you're more comfortable with one screen displaying one window, that's fine, Stan; you've evidently found an application that suits this preference. But your past criticism that "DXLab provides too many windows" is, as one DXLab user put it, like complaining about a gourmet buffet with too many tasty dishes. DXLab users choose what information they want displayed as a function of their DXing objectives and operating style.

Instead you have to stretch them.

DXLab applications windows are adjustable in appropriate dimensions. For most windows, this adjustment is performed once; each application remembers where and how you've positioned and sized its windows.

No Drop down menus.

Correct. As I've previously pointed out, users consider this a significant step forward in usability. Instead of hunting for cryptically-named commands buried in cryptically-named menus, DXLab applications use tabs with captions relevant to the tasks at hand, like "Log QSOs" and "Check Progress". Adjustments are made via well-labeled graphical controls on these tabs. I understand that you don't like this approach, Stan. What you seemingly fail to understand is that most ops prefer it, as the reviews confirm (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139).

In DXView depending on what you click on, the window changes size to dinky and back to large. It will give you a headache if you do it often.

That's false.

DxLabs Interface needs a lot of rework.

What you mean is "DXLab's Interface needs a lot of rework to gain you as a user". I wouldn't take DXLab backwards to gain 1000 users, Stan, much less to gain the few that share your view. There is far too much new functionality yet to be delivered, and your opinion is that of a shrinking minority.

     73,

           Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 04:40:43 AM

In DXView depending on what you click on, the window changes size to dinky and back to large. It will give you a headache if you do it often.

That's false.

That is true and I apologize. The program that keeps changing window size is DXKeeper. Instead of bringing a new window up like most Window programs, DxKeeper will change size from dinky to large depending on what you click on. DXKeeper is the main logger window. I am sorry I got it wrong but one must run so many different programs/windows in DXlabs it is difficult to keep track of them all.  :D

Stan K9IUQ




Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 04:54:43 AM
What you mean is "DXLab's Interface needs a lot of rework to gain you as a user". I wouldn't take DXLab backwards to gain 1000 users, Stan, much less to gain the few that share your view.

Dave I suggest you can not see the forest because the trees are in the way. Because DxLabs is free you have few users telling you what they really think. Instead they tell you what you want to hear. It is hard to complain about a program when it is free.

DXLAbs is a non-standard windows program. It does not use even simple Windows conventions like drop down menus. DxLabs looks and feels like it was written for Linux or Win 3.1. 13 years ago it might have been to date. In 2013 it just looks dated.

Please take my comments as constructive criticism. Whether DXLabs pleases me is not your concern or mine. There are plenty of loggers that do please me.

You do yourself a big dis-service by constantly promoting and pasting your DXLabs brochure into every Logger thread. If DxLabs is great the ham will find out by himself. All a ham has to do is what I have been promoting, which you seem to disagree with:

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial. Figure out what works for YOU. Instead of following the Logger Pied Pipers.

Logger Pied Piper definition: "A ham who offers others strong yet delusional opinions about Loggers."

Stan K9IUQ




Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 03, 2013, 07:48:06 AM
You do yourself a big dis-service by constantly promoting and pasting your DXLabs brochure into every Logger thread.

Sorry Dave, but I have to agree with Stan on this one.

I have always been interested in the digital modes and many years ago when PSK31 was the "new kid on the block", I would frequently run across WA2VOS on RTTY and once in a while on PSK31. For those of you who do not recognize the callsign, he is the US representative for MixW software. Even though we started out having "normal" QSOs, the conversation would always turn to how great and how fabulous MixW was and that I should really give it a try. After a while, it just became tiresome talking to him so I just kept spinning the dial or moving somewhere else on the waterfall whenever I would see him.

If that is all he wanted to talk about, then why would I want to continue to talk to him? I checked my log and it has been almost 10 years since he and I last spoke. Even though I have seen his call on the waterfalls from time to time, he is one of the very few people who are on my "black list" of those stations with whom I have no desire to have any more contacts in my log.

At least on the "other forum", Ham Radio Deluxe has a separate sub-forum so perhaps eHam could consider doing the same for you. Unlike MixW, DXLabs is free but the bottom line, advertising is still advertising.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: KG5VK on September 03, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
I have used many other logging tools, even wrote my own using a relationship Dbase tool

About five years ago a trusted friend that is very tech savvy showed me The DX Lab suite, I have been using it ever since
and am very satisfied with not only it's logging feature but the whole suite

The way it ties in with LOTW and Paper logging is very important to me

I also use Clublog.com and DXKeeper allows immediate updates of my data in ClubLog

As a side note,  I also do DXing outside of the USA
DXkeeper allows one to maintain more than one log !!!
Example I maintain my log from TI2/KG5VK in DxLab as well

Often I have the mind set that if it is FREE it can't be of that great of value
there are two big exceptions to that rule...

N1MM for contesting and DX Lab Suite for all other Ham radio logging chores !
The support for both is absolutely incredible

Cheers!

Steve
KG5VK


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 08:47:18 AM
Often I have the mind set that if it is FREE it can't be of that great of value
there are two big exceptions to that rule...

N1MM for contesting and DX Lab Suite

You got it half right. N1MM is a superior contest Logger, one that I have used for years - for Contesting only.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 08:54:57 AM
Sorry Dave, but I have to agree with Stan on this one.

At the bottom line, advertising is still advertising.

I really hope Dave reads your whole post. There is NO reason for a Logger programmer to constantly "push" his Logger on eham forums. It does get pretty old.

Dave, if your Logger is superior let your users tell the story. You are perhaps a little too biased......

If you still feel the need to tout your Logger please buy an advertising Banner on  eham.

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AJ8B on September 03, 2013, 09:23:34 AM
I would second all of the kudos for DXLabs. I am in to listening, tuning and working the bands, not managing uploads, printing, research etc. The DXSuite handles all of those tasks in an integrated fashion so that I can work 'em and get credit for 'em.

AJ8B => Bill


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 10:54:08 AM

In DXView depending on what you click on, the window changes size to dinky and back to large. It will give you a headache if you do it often.

That's false.

That is true and I apologize. The program that keeps changing window size is DXKeeper. Instead of bringing a new window up like most Window programs, DxKeeper will change size from dinky to large depending on what you click on. DXKeeper is the main logger window. I am sorry I got it wrong but one must run so many different programs/windows in DXlabs it is difficult to keep track of them all.

That's also false, Stan. DXKeeper's Main window has six tabs. Five of them are of fixed size -- all around 700 x 400 pixels. The sixth tab is fully-resizable. Each tab supports a user activity: logging QSOs, QSLing, checking progress, importing QSOs, etc. so users tend to select a tab, and complete a set of tasks using the facilities provided on that tab.

When QSLing,for example, clicking one button on the Main window's QSL tab gathers all unconfirmed QSOs whose confirmation would advance award progress, a second button on that tab displays a preview of the QSL cards or labels that will be generated, a third button displays a preview of the envelopes or address labels that will be generated, a fourth button prints the QSL cards or labels, a fifth button prints the envelopes or address labels, and sixth button updates logged QSOs to reflect the issuance of QSL cards/labels requesting confirmation. The process is straightforward, and entirely supported within the Main window's QSL tab.

I understand that you dislike having multiple windows on-screen. However, the majority of ops -- particularly DXers -- strongly desire the immediate access to needed information that a multi-window interface can provide.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ






Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 11:05:26 AM
What you mean is "DXLab's Interface needs a lot of rework to gain you as a user". I wouldn't take DXLab backwards to gain 1000 users, Stan, much less to gain the few that share your view.

Dave I suggest you can not see the forest because the trees are in the way. Because DxLabs is free you have few users telling you what they really think. Instead they tell you what you want to hear. It is hard to complain about a program when it is free.

That's demonstrably false, Stan. Take a look at the DXLab Yahoo Group, and you'll find plenty of critique.

DXLAbs is a non-standard windows program. It does not use even simple Windows conventions like drop down menus.

Buggy-whips were once the "standard convention" for initiating transportation; so were hand-cranked engines. Drop-down menus were state-of-the-art in the 1990s. You may still prefer them, just as some folks like driving old cars, and that's fine. But as I've said, the majority of ops who have tried DXLab have found its user interface significantly easier to use than drop-down menus. Once again, I'll cite DXLab's eHam reviews (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139) to substantiate this point.

You do yourself a big dis-service by constantly promoting and pasting your DXLabs brochure into every Logger thread.

I respond when users seek recommendations or ask questions, and will continue to do so. Many DXLab users first learned of it from such responses here and elsewhere.

If DxLabs is great the ham will find out by himself.

That's a ridiculously naive assertion, Stan.

      73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 11:07:53 AM
You do yourself a big dis-service by constantly promoting and pasting your DXLabs brochure into every Logger thread.

Sorry Dave, but I have to agree with Stan on this one.

I have always been interested in the digital modes and many years ago when PSK31 was the "new kid on the block", I would frequently run across WA2VOS on RTTY and once in a while on PSK31. For those of you who do not recognize the callsign, he is the US representative for MixW software. Even though we started out having "normal" QSOs, the conversation would always turn to how great and how fabulous MixW was and that I should really give it a try. After a while, it just became tiresome talking to him so I just kept spinning the dial or moving somewhere else on the waterfall whenever I would see him.

If that is all he wanted to talk about, then why would I want to continue to talk to him? I checked my log and it has been almost 10 years since he and I last spoke. Even though I have seen his call on the waterfalls from time to time, he is one of the very few people who are on my "black list" of those stations with whom I have no desire to have any more contacts in my log.

At least on the "other forum", Ham Radio Deluxe has a separate sub-forum so perhaps eHam could consider doing the same for you. Unlike MixW, DXLabs is free but the bottom line, advertising is still advertising.

This is an online forum, not a QSO. When users seek recommendations or post questions, it is appropriate to respond; I will continue to do so.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 11:09:59 AM
I understand that you dislike having multiple windows on-screen. However, the majority of ops -- particularly DXers -- strongly desire the immediate access to needed information

Actually I use 2 monitors. Loggers like Commcat and Logic have multiple small windows that you can put into one window. Also these Loggers use color  ;)  to great advantage for the user. Need more information? Just hit the Maximize button on one of the small windows. Or use the drop down Menus. Pretty Simple actually and Intuitive since these programs adhere to Window conventions.   :D :D

FWIW I am an Active Dxer.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 11:22:19 AM
When users seek recommendations or post questions, it is appropriate to respond; I will continue to do so.     

Is it appropriate to constantly try to push DXLabs down the Newbies throat? I do not see Howard Nurse doing it or the HRD guys or Hosenose doing it with their loggers.

Just you Dave. and your responses on this issue is doing a real dis-service to DXLabs.

As you say you will continue to do so and perhaps K9IUQ will continue to give Hams real information that will actually help them decide what logger is best for them:

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial. Figure out what works for YOU. ."

Somehow I get the feeling you do not like this suggestion since it suggests that competition is good.

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 11:30:30 AM
I understand that you dislike having multiple windows on-screen. However, the majority of ops -- particularly DXers -- strongly desire the immediate access to needed information

Actually I use 2 monitors. Loggers like Commcat and Logic have multiple small windows that you can put into one window.

That's the much-criticized Multiple Document Interface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_document_interface) . You really do love 90's technology, Stan.

Also these Loggers use color  ;)  to great advantage for the user.

DXLab applications use font color to indicate "neededness" for DXing awards, and background color to indicate participation in LoTW and/or eQSL.cc; one glance (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/spotdatabase.jpg) shows active DX stations that are needed and QSL electronically.  Color is also used to distinguish bands in the realtime propagation display (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/PropAnalysis.jpg) and in the world map view of active DX stations (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/spotcollector/QSOs%2012m.jpg).

Need more information? Just hit the Maximize button on one of the small windows.

...and lose the ability to see any of the other information being displayed by the application.

FWIW I am an Active Dxer.

What are your DXing objectives? How are you doing against those objectives?

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
When users seek recommendations or post questions, it is appropriate to respond; I will continue to do so.    

Is it appropriate to constantly try to push DXLabs down the Newbies throat? I do not see Howard Nurse doing it or the HRD guys or Hosenose doing it with their loggers.

It is appropriate to respond to requests for recommendations or information. What other developers do or don't do with respect to "awareness" is their business.

Just you Dave. and your responses on this issue is doing a real dis-service to DXLabs.

As I've pointed out, DXLab has gained many new users as a result of posts here and elsewhere. Your "dis-service" characterization is inaccurate.

As you say you will continue to do so and perhaps K9IUQ will continue to give Hams real information that will actually help them decide what logger is best for them:

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial. Figure out what works for YOU. ."

Somehow I get the feeling you do not like this suggestion since it suggests that competition is good.

You're wrong again, Stan. I strongly believe in competition. Read the eHam reviews of DXLab (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139), and you'll see that most reviewers came from another application, and that many tried quite a few different applications before choosing DXLab.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 12:03:24 PM
What are your DXing objectives? How are you doing against those objectives?

My only objective is to make Dxing and Hamradio fun. When it ceases to be fun (been a ham for 53 years) I will take up fishing as a hobby.

I am doing quite well against my objective of having fun. It would not be fun if I was forced to use DXLabs.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 01:35:00 PM

It would not be fun if I was forced to use DXLabs.

Since you strongly prefer user interfaces that employ the menus and MDI (Multiple Document Interface) schemes of the 1990s, it would be surprising if you found DXLab to your liking.

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 04:45:03 PM
Since you strongly prefer user interfaces that employ the menus and MDI (Multiple Document Interface) schemes of the 1990s, it would be surprising if you found DXLab to your liking.

I strongly prefer software programs to look like and adhere to Window conventions. If I wanted a program to look like a Linux program I would run Linux - been there and done that.

I am running Win 7 on a high end computer. DXLabs is the only software that I own  (and I own a lot) that looks outta place. Plain and Simple DXLabs look dated both on looks (really Ugly and Busy) and operation and interface.

I am not  a programer and never heard of MDI before and I know not when it was developed. However it is a much better way to keep track of windows than have the windows haphazardly all over the place which is DXLabs style. And surprise - MDI has the Maximize buttons working, there are Windows style dropdown menus and the interface is Intuitive, something DXLabs does not make an effort at.

Altho I know you need to get the last word in, we need to close this thread. You are too biased and close to DxLabs to give an honest evaluation of your Logger. I am not biased however I am overly truthful and not afraid to express an opinion that may not be in the majority. I am not going to change my opinion of DXLabs.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 05:05:10 PM

Altho I know you need to get the last word in, we need to close this thread. You are too biased and close to DxLabs to give an honest evaluation of your Logger. I am not biased however I am overly truthful and not afraid to express an opinion that may not be in the majority. I am not going to change my opinion of DXLabs.

I have no expectation of changing your view of DXLab, Stan. My objective -- now accomplished -- has been make clear that your low opinion of DXLab is entirely based on your strong preference for older user interface techniques like menus and MDI. You've never gotten beyond this preference to assess DXLab's functionality, the primary source of value for most users.

      73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 03, 2013, 05:23:38 PM
This is an online forum, not a QSO. When users seek recommendations or post questions, it is appropriate to respond; I will continue to do so.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ

You missed the point but it doesn't really matter. I just hope you are making some sort of contribution to subscribe to eHam since they are letting you use their bandwidth for your product.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 03, 2013, 05:38:12 PM
This is an online forum, not a QSO. When users seek recommendations or post questions, it is appropriate to respond; I will continue to do so.

      73,

           Dave, AA6YQ

You missed the point but it doesn't really matter. I just hope you are making some sort of contribution to subscribe to eHam since they are letting you use their bandwidth for your product.

I am beginning to think Dave has Blinders on. He sees only what he wants to see.

His slick attempt to discredit me and HRD (no I did not miss that one Dave) further show his contempt for anyone that would dare to have a differing opinion of DXlabs.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 03, 2013, 07:12:14 PM

I am beginning to think Dave has Blinders on. He sees only what he wants to see.

His slick attempt to discredit me and HRD (no I did not miss that one Dave) further show his contempt for anyone that would dare to have a differing opinion of DXlabs.

I have no contempt for you whatsoever, Stan; nothing I've posted comes anywhere close to such a sentiment. You've made it clear that you strongly prefer a user interface based on menus and the Multiple Document Interface; that's your choice, and I respect it.

      73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 04, 2013, 03:59:12 AM
Might as well give it up Stan. Obviously Dave has the blessing of the admins to use eHam as an extension of his own website.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 04, 2013, 05:41:23 AM
Might as well give it up Stan.

Giving up is not my nature. As long as Dave continues his constant advertising in every Logger/Digital thread here on eham, I may perhaps continue to inform hams of other Logger/Digital software that actually conforms and looks like a Windows Program.Software that is intuitive and performs with the need of a college course to understand how to use.

Dave is getting quite blatant in his attempts to push DXLabs into every Logger/Digital discussion. Many hams agree with me but few will publicly post what they really think about DxLabs. If DxLabs were to charge $100 like HRD or even $50 it would fail miserably in popularity. It is free for a reason...  ;)

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 04, 2013, 06:08:14 AM
This topic is very confusing, a lot more confusing than any technical issue I've run across since getting back into ham radio several months ago. Back when I was still active you mailed QSL cards. Seems now that is pretty much an anachronism. So other than setting up a database in a spreadsheet, I need to use one of these programs to confirm the QSO happened.

I do see that LoTW is sortof tied into ARRL/Yeasu and seems pretty "official". Let's put it this way - if I used LoTW would it be a bad choice?  ???


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 04, 2013, 06:35:16 AM
I do see that LoTW is sortof tied into ARRL/Yeasu and seems pretty "official". Let's put it this way - if I used LoTW would it be a bad choice?  ???

That depends. If you have 1000's of QSL cards like I do LOTW can be very helpful.

You may want to trade QSL cards but if you are just interested in Awards then LOTW might be the way to go. OTOH you may want to collect QSL' cards, many hams like them.

I do both. I never initiate a QSL card any more however I will respond to one sent to me. I also upload to LOTW frequently. You may want to look at e-QSL also especially if you want to paper your wall with QSLs. While e-QSL is not as respected as LOTW and DXCC it is an interesting way to get QSL cards. You print the cards received on your computer printer using card stock and most of them can not be told from a real sent QSL.

LOTW is pretty painless these days. Almost all loggers support easy upload of LOTW.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K6XT on September 04, 2013, 06:41:44 AM
Recently, I began looking at various logging/station support programs. I'm almost finished with my trial period of HRD.  It took about a day to get everything up and running, and to become comfortable with the program suite.  The logbook/dx cluster/rig control/rotor control works very well together. It's basically pick a station off the cluster, the log book prepares to log the contact, make the exchange, and save it in the logbook.  A few mouse clicks and it's done.  The rotor control program automatically turns the beam towards the intended contact. I haven't experimented with the digital program (DM780), or the satellite tracker.  Nevertheless, I have been very happy using HRD. 

I also want to look at Commcat as well.  I like the fact that Commcat offers an interface for remote operation using Apple "i" products.  I suppose, most of these program suites produce the same end results, the real differences is the user interface.  DXLabs seems like a one man show, a lot of posters in support of DXLabs kept referencing the same thing over and over, Dave this and Dave that. That is all fine and well, unless he becomes unavailable, then all support will stop.

73


Dave's nonavailability was thoroughly covered in a thread on the DXLabSuite reflector recently. Dave has established a team of (I presume) like-minded software gurus who will continue his work should he be erased tomorrow. Heaven forbid Dave!

Reading thru this thread it seems like there's been some degeneration. I hope not to add to that with my opinion. Moving from paper to a PC, I essentially restarted DXCC and award tracking in 1989 with WJ2O's DOS program. In an effort to free myself completely from DOS (still unresolved) after trying out the available programs I migrated to DX4WIN. It didn't go smoothly, but it went. Happy as a clam, DX4WIN served for a while. Then I noticed it had been a long time since the last update, and I had some issues go unresolved, so I got restless and looked around again. There were many more options available at that time.

After a few trials I thought DXLabSuite looked like the way to go. However this was before the suite's Launcher application (it installs itself and all the rest of the suite applications more or less automatically). I was a bit befuddled by the need to manually integrate the suite, so hung out with DX4WIN a bit longer. Finally biting the bullet I tried the Suite again and by now the Launcher existed. So I've been around the block on award-tracking loggers (contest loggers too, but that's a different story).

And never looked back since. While I don't always agree with Dave's way of doing things, he has the important stuff covered. Like data security, i.e. how safe is my log. Award tracking. Interoperability. Crashworthiness - DXLabSuite never crashes. Windows might expire, and does, but not the Suite. Following a BSOD there's my log, safe and sound. Personally I appreciate the modularity of the Suite because, when I'm setting up something new or recovering from my frequent screwups I can concentrate on just one area and one application.

Like any "new thing" it does take some effort to learn the ropes if the goal is to dig in. On the other hand the Suite can quite effectively use the defaults. The new user can just install it application by application and start logging Q's.

One cannot recommend the Suite without mentioning support. The Suite author AA6YQ is not only a DXer himself, he's always within a day or so of replying to questions. Usually within hours, but he does take vacations and go on DXpeditions. Plus there are a large number of expert users available when Dave's not around. Its the best software support I've ever seen since I began using PC's in about 1980.

73 Art K6XT


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 04, 2013, 06:59:24 AM
That depends. If you have 1000's of QSL cards like I do LOTW can be very helpful.

You may want to trade QSL cards but if you are just interested in Awards then LOTW might be the way to go. OTOH you may want to collect QSL' cards, many hams like them.

Yea I want to collect them, just like the old days. I do not care about awards at all (at least for now). So what exactly is LoTW? Just something to verify awards?

Quote
I do both. I never initiate a QSL card any more however I will respond to one sent to me. I also upload to LOTW frequently. You may want to look at e-QSL also especially if you want to paper your wall with QSLs. While e-QSL is not as respected as LOTW and DXCC it is an interesting way to get QSL cards. You print the cards received on your computer printer using card stock and most of them can not be told from a real sent QSL.

That sounds OK with me, if I can print one and collect them it would be OK.

But if you can bear with me for a minute ...

I guess what I am not "getting" is how it's all coordinated and verified. I'm sure I can figure out any software package I choose.

What I don't yet understand is, say I use eQSL, and Joe Bob uses LoTW, and Sarah uses DX Labs, and so on. How is it all coordinated? What If I use eQSL and Joe Bob refuses to use it? How do I get his QSL "card" or verification? Is it like the old saysing "That's what I love about standards - there are so many to choose from"?


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 04, 2013, 08:57:53 AM

Yea I want to collect them, just like the old days. I do not care about awards at all (at least for now). So what exactly is LoTW? Just something to verify awards?

I guess what I am not "getting" is how it's all coordinated and verified. I'm sure I can figure out any software package I choose.

What I don't yet understand is, say I use eQSL, and Joe Bob uses LoTW, and Sarah uses DX Labs, and so on. How is it all coordinated? What If I use eQSL and Joe Bob refuses to use it? How do I get his QSL "card" or verification? Is it like the old saysing "That's what I love about standards - there are so many to choose from"?

Your ham logger merely collects the QSO information and Uploads that info to a e-QSL or LOTW server. Eqsl is not secure and it is easy cheat e-QSL. Why anyone would do this is subject for another thread. LOTW is secure and for serious Award hunters. e-QSL is for grins and papering your wall fast and cheap.Note that e-QSL printed cards by themselves are not eligible for the DXCC award.

LOTW= LogBook of the World and is run by the ARRL and contacts verified are eligible for all ARRL awards, the most important being DXCC. Your logger uploads to LOTW. When the other party uploads their log and both logs match you receive credit for that QSO.

You can upload at your convenience. I do it weekly. Not everybody uses LOTW but it is getting more popular all the time. There are about 65000 worldwide users of LOTW right now. My confirmation rate on LOTW is about 42% at this time. However I have gotten many confirmations from 10 year or even older QSOes. This is because a Ham finally decides to use LOTW and uploads their whole log which may got back quite away. As long as your log and their log matches you get credit for the QSO. No Time Limit.

Another interesting perk of LOTW is you can know if the Ham is a LOTW user BEFORE you make the contact. I believe most loggers support this. Hope this helps a little.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K6XT on September 04, 2013, 09:38:10 AM

Yea I want to collect them, just like the old days. I do not care about awards at all (at least for now). So what exactly is LoTW? Just something to verify awards?

But if you can bear with me for a minute ...

I guess what I am not "getting" is how it's all coordinated and verified. I'm sure I can figure out any software package I choose.

What I don't yet understand is, say I use eQSL, and Joe Bob uses LoTW, and Sarah uses DX Labs, and so on. How is it all coordinated? What If I use eQSL and Joe Bob refuses to use it? How do I get his QSL "card" or verification? Is it like the old saysing "That's what I love about standards - there are so many to choose from"?

This is a bit of apples and oranges Mike. Eqsl and LoTW are award granting services of Eqsl and ARRL respectively. Other than accepting log uploads (adif files) they have nothing to do with loggers. That's where award tracking loggers like DXLabSuite, DX4WIN, many more, and contest loggers like N1MM, Writelog etc. come in. These programs are your personal interface between QSO's (the data) and being able to use the data for some purpose that you enjoy, such as applying to Eqsl or LoTW for an award resulting from your accumulation of QSO's.

The award tracking loggers keep track of your stats, provide easy ways to upload to the award granters, print QSL's and address labels, keep track of QSL status (sent, received, still waiting, verified by LoTW, etc), interface with your rig for current frequency and mode, switch and rotate your antennas, keep your log safe on your PC etc.

But even if you don't want to partake of awards there is good reason to send your log to LoTW. When you do, a copy of QSO's you upload is "forever" stored on a computer someplace other than your place. So it is another safeguard against data loss.

Also take a look into ClubLog www.clublog.org. This is another way to see how you're doing award wise but more important, another place to store a copy of your log, off your PC. And its a tad easier to get a copy of your log than is LoTW. TTBOMK Clublog does not issue awards but does show DXCC and CQZone wise what you've worked and displays award tracking in unique ways. Clublog organizes groups of hams into "leagues" so its really easy to have a friendly little competition with your ham friend down the street or local club collecting bandmode QSO's, if that's of interest.

Summarizing, you may not today be interested in awards. Keep plugging, you probably will one day. There's more reason than awards to upload your Q's to one of the services.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 04, 2013, 09:54:57 AM
If DxLabs were to charge $100 like HRD or even $50 it would fail miserably in popularity. It is free for a reason...  ;)

DXLab is free because amateur radio is my hobby, not my business. I enjoy developing software in collaboration with users who provide rapid feedback and critique, and I enjoy exploring new software engineering techniques in a hands-on way.

No amount of money can match the joy of receiving email from a user describing how your software has expanded his or her enjoyment of amateur radio and radically increased his or her prowess as a DXer.

      73,

            Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 04, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
So I as understand it now, the .adif file (Amateur Data Interchange Format) is the standard log file for ham radio logging. Would I be wrong in then assuming that this type of file is transportable between the popular logging programs?

If so I guess it's no big deal to start using one and then change to another program, since the data would be imported and not locked into one particular logging program's file format.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 04, 2013, 02:34:50 PM
So I as understand it now, the .adif file (Amateur Data Interchange Format) is the standard log file for ham radio logging. Would I be wrong in then assuming that this type of file is transportable between the popular logging programs?

If so I guess it's no big deal to start using one and then change to another program, since the data would be imported and not locked into one particular logging program's file format.

Yep, no big deal as  the adif file is a standard that all loggers use. Adif files are Transportable. Which means if You try DXLabs and find it not to your liking you can merely change to a better logger and take your QSO information with you.  ;)

Instead of advertising or advocating the use of the Logger I use (Commcat), I tell hams to do the intelligent thing:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial. Figure out what works for YOU.

You will lose nothing and gain valuable knowledge about how loggers differ.

If you have never used a PC logger before I highly recommend you stay away from DXLabs until you get more experience. DXLabs is not intuitive and has a very Steep Learning Curve. You could get so frustrated you go back to a paper Log. Save the DXLabs trial/test for last..

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 04, 2013, 02:46:01 PM
So I as understand it now, the .adif file (Amateur Data Interchange Format) is the standard log file for ham radio logging. Would I be wrong in then assuming that this type of file is transportable between the popular logging programs?

If so I guess it's no big deal to start using one and then change to another program, since the data would be imported and not locked into one particular logging program's file format.

ADIF (http://www.adif.org.uk/304/ADIF_304.htm) is an "interchange specification" that allows applications to exchange log data in a mutually understandable format. ADIF does not require applications to support all items of information -- so if you've recorded your QSO partners' email addresses, your current logging application may or may not export this information to an ADIF file, and the next logging application you try may or may not import this information.

In practice, most applications that claim ADIF compliance will import and export a core set of information: callsign, date, time, band, and mode. For DXers, the most important field that's not a part of this core set is the "DXCC country code"; without it, an importing application will have no way of setting the DXCC entity for an imported QSO with an ambiguous callsign like TO1DX or E51RY.

Thus when considering a logging application, check to see what information it can export to an ADIF file, and what information it can import from an ADIF file. This information should be readily available in the application's documentation.

      73,

             Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 04, 2013, 02:56:35 PM
If you have never used a PC logger before I highly recommend you stay away from DXLabs until you get more experience. DXLabs is not intuitive and has a very Steep Learning Curve. You could get so frustrated you go back to a paper Log. Save the DXLabs trial/test for last..

There are more than 100 eHam reviews of DXLab (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139) that show Stan's opinion to be that of a small minority.

    73,

         Dave, AA6YQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 04, 2013, 04:15:00 PM
Well gentlemen, I certainly know more than I did about this before I asked my questions. There seems to be some pretty strong opinions on the different packages, something like the debates I get into regarding the Chinese/Japanese HTs.  :D

But ... I have read the views and I will certainly keep an open mind and try the DX labs and the others mentioned, and form my own opinions. Heck I don't even have an HF setup yet, but I want to be ahead of the game, which is why I'm trying to learn about all the new ways of doing things in ham radio.

Cheers!


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 04:40:27 AM

There are more than 100 eHam reviews of DXLab (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139) that show Stan's opinion to be that of a small minority.

    73,

         Dave, AA6YQ

Anyone who has been around eham for a while knows that  the reviews do not necessarily mean anything. However let us use your Flawed Logic for a moment.

ACLog has 157 reviews at 4.8. By your Logic this means  ACLog is a much better logger than DxLabs. ACLog is not Free. Ham ops have to actually pay $$ for ACLog. This gives even more credit to ACLog being a better logger since DXLabs is free. DxLabs easliy loses the popularity race using your standard of eham reviews.


So is ACLog better than DXLabs?  ;) :D Anyone who has tried both knows the answer to that. Sorry Dave, Being popular does not make a great logger. If a logger is Free it also distorts popularity as free wins the love of a lot of Hams.

I have not yet written a eham review of DXLabs. Several years ago I did write one for ACLog. Perhaps I will write a review of DxLabs and lower your 4.8 rating a little.  ;) :D

Maybe I will make up a few eham aliases and use them to write a DXLabs review. Maybe I will get my local ham friends to do the same. My wife doesn't have a eham account yet, she will get one and write a review. Dave, eham reviews mean little, they can be easily manipulated.

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 05, 2013, 05:26:29 AM
Anyone who has been around eham for a while knows that  the reviews do not necessarily mean anything.

Being popular does not make a great logger.

And look at HRD. It has nearly 300 reviews with an overall rating of 4.4. But if you look at the "negative" reviews, it seems that most of them are related to the fact that the software that was once free now costs $100, not due to specific functionality issues. If you factor these out, I am pretty sure HRD's ratings will come very close to those of DXLabs.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 05:46:57 AM
And look at HRD. It has nearly 300 reviews with an overall rating of 4.4. But if you look at the "negative" reviews, it seems that most of them are related to the fact that the software that was once free now costs $100, not due to specific functionality issues. If you factor these out, I am pretty sure HRD's ratings will come very close to those of DXLabs.

Dxlabs is now free like HRD once was. HRD was extremely popular when it was free. If Dave started charging $100 like HRD what would happen to DXLabs popularity? Does anyone believe it would increase?  :D :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 05, 2013, 11:33:15 AM

There are more than 100 eHam reviews of DXLab (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139) that show Stan's opinion to be that of a small minority.

Anyone who has been around eham for a while knows that  the reviews do not necessarily mean anything.

Those reviews contains many positive statements from users citing DXLab's ease of use, directly contradicting the negative opinion you've been repeatedly posting here. These reviews are not anonymous; anyone interested can contact the author of a review by obtaining their email address from QRZ.com and confirming authenticity.

I have not yet written a eham review of DXLabs. Several years ago I did write one for ACLog.

That's false. You posted a review of DXLab on May 25, 2012.

Maybe I will make up a few eham aliases and use them to write a DXLabs review. Maybe I will get my local ham friends to do the same. My wife doesn't have a eham account yet, she will get one and write a review.

Any reader who hasn't already concluded that you have a rather large axe to grind will now have certainly reached this conclusion.

Your post will make it easy for the eHam person responsible for reviews to properly deal with your threat.

Dave, eham reviews mean little, they can be easily manipulated.

That's false. eHam reviews are not anonymous. Reviewers can be contacted via email to verify the authenticity of their statements; eHam removes reviews like the ones you've threatened to post.



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 05, 2013, 11:44:00 AM
And look at HRD. It has nearly 300 reviews with an overall rating of 4.4. But if you look at the "negative" reviews, it seems that most of them are related to the fact that the software that was once free now costs $100, not due to specific functionality issues. If you factor these out, I am pretty sure HRD's ratings will come very close to those of DXLabs.

Dxlabs is now free like HRD once was. HRD was extremely popular when it was free. If Dave started charging $100 like HRD what would happen to DXLabs popularity? Does anyone believe it would increase?

DXLab has always been free, and will always be free. As I posted earlier, I enjoy developing software in collaboration with users, and I enjoy exploring new software engineering techniques in a hand-on manner. I also enjoy building software that improves my effectiveness as a DXer, along with the effectiveness of every other DXer who employs it.

    73,

         Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
Your post will make it easy for the eHam person responsible for reviews to properly deal with your threat.

Oh  Dear, Dave you need to chill out and recognize when someone is pulling  your chain, AKA tongue in cheek.

You are correct I did post a Review of DxLabs, I apologize for my memory failure. I did give DXLabs a good 3.0, I must have been  feeling kind that day.

Dave I have NO AXE to grind. I am merely tired of  you constantly pushing  and advertising your DXLabs in every logger/digital thread. I think it is about time someone gave a very different view on DXlabs, one that is shared by many Hams.

I will make you a deal. Stop ramming DXlabs down the newbies throat every chance you get and I will go away. Without you to debate Dave,  there will be no discussion from me. I know you will not take this deal and continue to bore everyone with your posting  of DXlabs Brochure every chance you get. It is who you are Dave. You need to have the last word....  :D :D

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 05, 2013, 12:04:42 PM
Your post will make it easy for the eHam person responsible for reviews to properly deal with your threat.

Dave I have NO AXE to grind. I am merely tired of  you constantly pushing  and advertising your DXLabs in every logger/digital thread. I think it is about time someone gave a very different view on DXlabs, one that is shared by many Hams.

There are 111 reviews of DXLab (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139) posted in the eHam Logging Software review forum. Of these, 104 (94%) give DXLab a rating of 5. There are 2 reviews with a rating of 4, and a total of 5 reviews with a rating of 3 or lower (including your review).

Your negative view of DXLab is that of a small minority.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 03:20:54 PM
Of these, 104 (94%) give DXLab a rating of 5. There are 2 reviews with a rating of 4, and a total of 5 reviews with a rating of 3 or lower (including your review).

Dave when do you have time to program, arguing with me and figuring all this out takes a lot of your time. Let us do this review statistic thing fairly as you distort the facts about popularity doing only the DXLabs review statistics So why don't you do a check on AClog review popularity and give us a run down on the statistics of that logger. It is after all more popular than DXLabs and it cost $$$ which gives it a handicap in the popularity race.

Let us REALLY be fair Dave. Here is what what you need to do Dave. Take the Top 25 reviewed Loggers. There actually are more loggers than 25 but I don't want to waste too much of your time. Total up the review count. Most of the review Totals are 4.0 or higher so we can assume Hams like these loggers. Now deduct 111 from the Total.This is DXLabs reviews.  I will even let you deduct the LOTW total which is 483. This is because it is not a real Software Logger. I really want to be fair to DXLabs.   The result will be hams that prefer loggers other than DXlabs. How many Dave? Give us the percentage too.  :D

I would do all this for you but people would probably think I would cheat and I am not too good at math anyway. I am very interested in how many hams are not reviewing DXLabs and are quite happy with other loggers.

You probably have noticed that unlike you I have not promoted one logger over another. I have not said too much about the logger I use = CommCat. But since every thing you post is an veiled advertisement for DxLabs. Let me give CommCat a plug

Commcat has a perfect score of 5.0 with 30 reviews. This means 100% of the reviewers think Commcat is great , which it is. Commcat also costs $50 which makes it harder to compete against freebies like DXLabs. Hams love free and free will always win a popularity contest against $$$$. Popularity has nothing to do with quality especially if something is free.

We await your next post and DxLabs advertisement Dave. Actually I am helping you out because you are getting much more opportunity to push and advertise DXLabs arguing with me.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 05, 2013, 03:28:38 PM
Of these, 104 (94%) give DXLab a rating of 5. There are 2 reviews with a rating of 4, and a total of 5 reviews with a rating of 3 or lower (including your review).

Dave when do you have time to program, arguing with me and figuring all this out takes a lot of your time. Let us do this review statistic thing fairly as you distort the facts about popularity doing only the DXLabs review statistics.

I made no claim regarding DXLab's popularity. I cited the eHam reviews to demonstrate that your low opinion of DXLab is that of a small minority.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 05, 2013, 04:22:51 PM
I have not said too much about the logger I use = CommCat.

I took a look at the Commcat demo video on their website. All I can say is - Wow!  :o That thing looks incredibly capable and complicated! It has so much I don't know if I'd be too bogged down in the details. You know how some programs have two menu systems - normal and advanced? I think I need normal for the time being. But remember the last time I logged a contact was in the 1970's, in a paper logbook, and then I got a QSL card and licked a stamp and mailed it.

DXLab has always been free, and will always be free. As I posted earlier, I enjoy developing software in collaboration with users, and I enjoy exploring new software engineering techniques in a hand-on manner.

I haven't tried it yet but what can I say to another that develops free software for the community? Seems like a very nice thing to do. So, thanks. For now all I want to do is be able to log contacts on my PC, and then upload them. I'm not going to chase dx or do contests, it's just not relaxing to me.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 05:05:59 PM
that your low opinion of DXLab is that of a small minority.

You are avoiding the issue. My low opinion of DxLabs is shared by Many hams. Do my little math exercise and you will see that DXLabs is shunned by a majority of hams that use other Loggers. Spin all you want. The truth is there for every one to see. DXLabs is FREE for goodness sake. If it was the Greatest DX Logger EVERY ham would be using it, it is after all FREE.

If you do my math exercise on the reviews you would see that the Majority of Hams use a logger other than DXLabs. In Fact ACLog alone beats DXLabs in popularity and it costs $$$.

Low Opinion of DXLabs is shared by the Majority of hams on eham, just go do the math in  the review section.  After all YOU were the one that first used the Reviews to spotlight DxLabs. Dave this just shows you just are not a fair person. Having talked to you here eham, seen your constant promoting and Spinning of DxLabs I have to confess that I have even  a lower opinion of DxLabs than I did before. All because of your attitude.

I told you before you do a real dis-service to DxLabs by your constant actions here on eham, you have proved that over and over.

You are a Telemarketer that will not stop calling. At first a customer may listen  to the message. When a Telemarketer calls everyday the customer gets a little annoyed. After a week the customer gets on the no-call list. That does not work so the customer gets a lot angry. Finally he talks to the Telemarketer and asks him to quit calling and giving the same message over and over. The Telemarketer  just smiles to himself and keeps on talking. Finally the customer has had enough and gets caller Id and never answers the Telemarketer. The Telemarketer tho is slick, he knows he can sell to this customer, he changes his phone number every time he calls. This way the customer has to answer. And on it goes.

You are Telemarketer Dave,instead of using a Telephone you use eham. 

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AB4D on September 05, 2013, 06:38:18 PM

Dave's nonavailability was thoroughly covered in a thread on the DXLabSuite reflector recently. Dave has established a team of (I presume) like-minded software gurus who will continue his work should he be erased tomorrow. Heaven forbid Dave!

Reading thru this thread it seems like there's been some degeneration. I hope not to add to that with my opinion. Moving from paper to a PC, I essentially restarted DXCC and award tracking in 1989 with WJ2O's DOS program. In an effort to free myself completely from DOS (still unresolved) after trying out the available programs I migrated to DX4WIN. It didn't go smoothly, but it went. Happy as a clam, DX4WIN served for a while. Then I noticed it had been a long time since the last update, and I had some issues go unresolved, so I got restless and looked around again. There were many more options available at that time.

After a few trials I thought DXLabSuite looked like the way to go. However this was before the suite's Launcher application (it installs itself and all the rest of the suite applications more or less automatically). I was a bit befuddled by the need to manually integrate the suite, so hung out with DX4WIN a bit longer. Finally biting the bullet I tried the Suite again and by now the Launcher existed. So I've been around the block on award-tracking loggers (contest loggers too, but that's a different story).

And never looked back since. While I don't always agree with Dave's way of doing things, he has the important stuff covered. Like data security, i.e. how safe is my log. Award tracking. Interoperability. Crashworthiness - DXLabSuite never crashes. Windows might expire, and does, but not the Suite. Following a BSOD there's my log, safe and sound. Personally I appreciate the modularity of the Suite because, when I'm setting up something new or recovering from my frequent screwups I can concentrate on just one area and one application.

Like any "new thing" it does take some effort to learn the ropes if the goal is to dig in. On the other hand the Suite can quite effectively use the defaults. The new user can just install it application by application and start logging Q's.

One cannot recommend the Suite without mentioning support. The Suite author AA6YQ is not only a DXer himself, he's always within a day or so of replying to questions. Usually within hours, but he does take vacations and go on DXpeditions. Plus there are a large number of expert users available when Dave's not around. Its the best software support I've ever seen since I began using PC's in about 1980.

73 Art K6XT

Art,

Thanks for clarifying, there is a continued support mechanism in place for the DXLabs suite of programs.  That is a win for those who enjoy using DXLabs.

I spent some time looking at the DXLabs suite of programs. It appears to be very extensive and capable suite of programs.  However, the GUI for DXLabs gives me a Windows 3.1 flash back. I've been using HRD 6.1 for about a month, and can say I like what they've done with that suite of programs. I find the product is well worth the price.

I get everything I need (logging/rig control/automatic rotor control/grey line-world map/UTC clock/QRZ lookup/DX Cluster/and more) in one single window.  I like that tabs are used within, much like many other modern programs I use. I found that the learning curve is very short and have not experience any operating issues or computer issues.

HRD and DXLabs, although competing programs, both are very capable. Whichever suite of programs someone choses to use, I doubt anyone can go wrong using either of those programs.

73  


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5MOA on September 05, 2013, 06:45:58 PM
DXLab has always been free, and will always be free. As I posted earlier, I enjoy developing software in collaboration with users, and I enjoy exploring new software engineering techniques in a hand-on manner.

I haven't tried it yet but what can I say to another that develops free software for the community? Seems like a very nice thing to do. So, thanks. For now all I want to do is be able to log contacts on my PC, and then upload them. I'm not going to chase dx or do contests, it's just not relaxing to me.


That is simple enough to do.

 DXLabs suite of software does a ton of stuff; however, (unlike other programs) it is up to you how much of it you want to utilize, and how much of it you want/need  on your screen at the same time. That is the beauty of it's modular design.

DXLablauncher is the program used to download/update the rest of the programs. Download that first, then DXKeeper. If all you are wanting to do is log, stop, you're done. That's what I did when I first started using DXLab 5 years ago. I've since added the rest.

Once you have DXKeeper loaded, use the icon to open, you won't need to access DXLauncher again, other than periodically to check for updates. Or download other parts of the DXLab suite of programs.

When you first open DXKeeper, you'll use the "myQTH" tab at the top of the page and the "Config" button to initially setup your log. There may be a step I've forgotten, it has been a while since I first loaded the software, but it is very well documented on the website if I have.

The "Log QSOs" tab is where you enter your qso info. Call, mode, freq, name, comments, etc.....as much or as little info as you want to input. Click the "New" button, enter a call in the box, hit enter, and the start time of the qso is entered, you add the rest. Unless you also have Commander running, in which case the band/mode is also entered for you.

When you have all the info/comment whatever you want entered, click the "Log" button, and the qso is logged. It took longer to type to this point than it does to do it.

As for uploading your qsos, once you have gotten yourself set up with LOTW/Eqsl/ClubLog, the "QSL" tab is where you do the uploading. Clicking that tab shows you the options for where/how you want to qsl. There are a few steps involved in the setup (LOTW/Eqsl), the "QSL Config" button is where that is handled. Pretty much set and forget.

Then your electronic uploads/downloads are just a couple of clicks away. There are a couple of different ways to add qsos to the "QSL Queqe" for upload, again, all very well documented on the website.

The DXLab yahoo group is also a great source of info if you have a question. 

If I've made any of this sound complicated, I apologize, it isn't.  I'm a self professed computer dummy, and  it's easy enough that I can use it.

After using just DXKeeper for a few weeks, I added Commander. Then DXView, Winwarbler, Propview and Spotcollector. I keep them all open, minimized in the taskbar. I prefer having the choice of what is on my screen, when I want it on my screen, where I want it on my screen, if I want it on my screen.

That is one reason, along with many others, why, imo, DXLabs is the best logging software I've used, free or otherwise. DXLabs is free because Dave wants it to be free. He flat refuses donation offers, which I would be more than happy to make. All I can do is say "thanks".

DXLabs is my recommendation for  logging software; however, you will need to decide if it is what you want to use.

For what you are saying you want to do, just log qsos and upload, no dx chasing or contests, just about any logging program will most likely do.

 It's the "for now all I want to do is......." part where DXLabs will really shine if you decide later on you want to do more than just log qsos.



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 05, 2013, 06:52:13 PM
 However, the GUI for DXLabs gives me a Windows 3.1 flash back.

You sure got that right. I have been telling Telemarketer Dave that his DXLabs GUI needs a LOT of work but Telemarker Dave hears what he wants to hear and sure does not wanna hear about his DxLabs dated GUI, non-intuitive confuser interface.

Stick with HRD if you can afford the $100. It is vastly superior to DXLabs and actually has a colorful modern  Windows interface..

ROTFL,ROTFL

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 05, 2013, 06:53:22 PM
For what you are saying you want to do, just log qsos and upload, no dx chasing or contests, just about any logging program will most likely do.

 It's the "for now all I want to do is......." part where DXLabs will really shine if you decide later on you want to do more than just log qsos.

Thanks for the post. I have no biases on one or the other at the moment, but for me, really, the simpler the better at first, then adding on capability, if and when I need it. I'm sure at my level they all would seem more than I would ever need.  :D


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 05, 2013, 08:20:03 PM

You are avoiding the issue. My low opinion of DxLabs is shared by Many hams. Do my little math exercise and you will see that DXLabs is shunned by a majority of hams that use other Loggers.

That's false. An op who uses another application may not know of DXLab's existence, much less have taken the time to assess it. Your understanding of mathematics evidently needs a refresh.

Of the 111 ops who reviewed DXLab, 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower, and that includes you. Your view of DXLab is that of a small minority.

I told you before you do a real dis-service to DxLabs by your constant actions here on eham, you have proved that over and over.

And you've ignored my response, which is that many DXLab users first learned of DXLab through my posts on eHam or QRZ.com.

You are a Telemarketer that will not stop calling.

Your analogy does not hold: I did not initiate this thread; I responded to a request for recommendations.

I will continue to respond to such requests.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 06, 2013, 03:45:37 AM
I will continue to respond to such requests.

Me Too. I will make sure the hams wanting Logger information get Balanced and Truthful Opinions instead of just an advertisment.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 06, 2013, 03:56:21 AM
Of the 111 ops who reviewed DXLab, 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower...

While those are impressive numbers on the surface, the flaw in this logic is that this is only representative of the people who downloaded your program, liked it well enough and then came here to post a review. There is no way of knowing how many people downloaded it, tried it, did not like it and simply moved on to another program without posting a review on eHam... like me.

If you look at the logging software review list, there are about 100 offerings. (It says there are 126, but I only counted 100... but I could be wrong.) Of those, my quick glance showed that there are 10 programs that scored in the 3's and with the exception of LoTW, most of those only have a handful of reviews. My guess is that most of these are just poorly written programs. The bottom line is that 10% of the "logging" programs out there are crap and not worth trying, but 90% of them might be worth taking a look at.

My point is that unless something is a total piece of garbage, it appears that people just don't take the time to post negative reviews. There does not appear to be a "bell curve" with the reviews. 90% of the offerings are skewed to the positive and I find it difficult to believe that there are that many really good logging programs out there.

I am glad that people like your program and these numbers do speak well of it, but you can't really make any conclusive judgements based on these numbers alone.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N3QE on September 06, 2013, 09:08:52 AM
I too love N1MM, not just for contests but for general purpose DX'ing. But you're right, it's not a general purpose logger, and has no support QSL'ing.

What I do is export ADI's from N1MM to LOTW, and then export from LOTW (showing LOTW confirmations) and merge into a database. Then I created a field in the database to indicate paper QSL's sent/received columns. Whenever I get a batch of paper QSL's from my sorter, or I print and send off a batch of QSL's, I update the database. I also have a column in the database for "OQRS request and money sent" that I treat like a bit like an outgoing QSL.

I then export from the database to another ADI, showing LOTW confirmations as "Verified" and paper-only (not also in LOTW) as "Confirmed", and upload this to clublog for clublog analysis tools. If you have are logged into clublog, this link can show you what the end result looks like, for matrix of worked DXCC per band, and confirmation status of each: https://secure.clublog.org/dxccchart.php?call=N3QE

Every so often I export an ADI of only the "confirmed" and "verified" QSL's. Then I import this into N1MM. When I run N1MM in "general purpose DX'ing" and it is hooked up to a spotting network, it then will populate the mult window with the unworked DXCC's I need for each band/mode.

There are scripts etc. to help automate all of the above. Typical common tasks that I use the database for are to mark "paper QSL received" for incoming cards, and to print labels for outgoing QSL's.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N4IAG on September 06, 2013, 10:38:26 AM
This thread pretty much has been turned into a turned into a DXLabs infomercial, especially with all the first time posters reading from the same script, obviously shilling for their friend.

I agree that one should try them all and come to their own conclusions. I've tried DXLabs (twice) and didn't care for the programs UI, so I moved on. My needs are modest and I still use the free HRD program along with W4ELP's HRD Add-on (http://www.k7pt.com/w4elptools.html), that allows free call sign look-ups.

Another good logger to check out is Log4OM (http://www.pisto.it/wordpress/log4om-en/)

What works for me, or anyone else, may not work for you.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 06, 2013, 11:00:44 AM
Of the 111 ops who reviewed DXLab, 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower...

While those are impressive numbers on the surface, the flaw in this logic is that this is only representative of the people who downloaded your program, liked it well enough and then came here to post a review. There is no way of knowing how many people downloaded it, tried it, did not like it and simply moved on to another program without posting a review on eHam... like me.

There are also tens of thousands of DXLab users who have never written a review.

Among the 111 ops who took the time to download DXLab and write a review, the statistics are unarguable: 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower.



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 06, 2013, 11:05:36 AM

I then export from the database to another ADI, showing LOTW confirmations as "Verified" and paper-only (not also in LOTW) as "Confirmed", and upload this to clublog for clublog analysis tools.

In ADIF (http://www.adif.org.uk/304/ADIF_304.htm), "verified" means "award credit granted". A QSO confirmed via LoTW has not yet been granted award credit, and thus is not "verified". LoTW confirmations must be submitted to the award sponsor (ARRL or CQ) in order for the QSO they confirm to be granted award credit.

      73,

             Dave, AA6YQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 06, 2013, 11:15:45 AM
There are also tens of thousands of DXLab users who have never written a review.

Among the 111 ops who took the time to download DXLab and write a review, the statistics are unarguable: 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower.

Please give it up Dave. Not only are you sounding like a broken record, you are starting to look very foolish with your constant DXLabs Promoting.

Know when to Hold em
Know when to Fold em


Time to fold em Dave, before you lose even more creditability.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 06, 2013, 12:06:49 PM
There are also tens of thousands of DXLab users who have never written a review.

Among the 111 ops who took the time to download DXLab and write a review, the statistics are unarguable: 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower.

Please give it up Dave. Not only are you sounding like a broken record, you are starting to look very foolish with your constant DXLabs Promoting.

The number of new installations of the DXLab Suite has continued to increase each week. Your assessment of what's good or bad for DXLab is hardly objective, and clearly incorrect. The more ops become aware of DXLab, the more ops adopt it.





Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K6XT on September 06, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
Of the 111 ops who reviewed DXLab, 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower...

While those are impressive numbers on the surface, the flaw in this logic is that this is only representative of the people who downloaded your program, liked it well enough and then came here to post a review. There is no way of knowing how many people downloaded it, tried it, did not like it and simply moved on to another program without posting a review on eHam... like me.

There are also tens of thousands of DXLab users who have never written a review.

Among the 111 ops who took the time to download DXLab and write a review, the statistics are unarguable: 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower.



There are likely tens of thousands who've never written a review on any logger. Or anything at all. The folks, I'm one, who invest time in reviews for anything must be passionate about the item reviewed. Like DXLabSuite with its 95% approval rating. Other loggers might also score that well but very few have as large a user base as DXLabSuite. For another look at logger user distribution try this:

https://secure.clublog.org/software.php

73 Art K6XT


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 06, 2013, 12:11:42 PM
This thread pretty much has been turned into a turned into a DXLabs infomercial, especially with all the first time posters reading from the same script, obviously shilling for their friend.

Wikipedia's definition of shill is "someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services."

DXLab is free; there are no goods or services to be purchased. Ops who try DXLab are in no way constrained from trying other applications. Thus it's not possible to shill for DXLab.

It is certainly possible to shill for commercial applications.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N4IAG on September 06, 2013, 02:13:19 PM
This thread pretty much has been turned into a turned into a DXLabs infomercial, especially with all the first time posters reading from the same script, obviously shilling for their friend.

Wikipedia's definition of shill is "someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services."

DXLab is free; there are no goods or services to be purchased. Ops who try DXLab are in no way constrained from trying other applications. Thus it's not possible to shill for DXLab.

It is certainly possible to shill for commercial applications.

That's what makes it all the more puzzling why you and all of these first time posters have bombarded this thread with their carbon-copy posts. Even a blind person can see that.

To be honest, you're beginning to embarrass yourself.

Steve


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 06, 2013, 03:09:05 PM
To be honest, you're beginning to embarrass yourself.
Steve

Please give it up Dave. Not only are you sounding like a broken record, you are starting to look very foolish with your constant DXLabs Promoting.

Know when to Hold em
Know when to Fold em


Time to fold em Dave, before you lose even more creditability.

He will not listen, it is really sad. I feel bad for him, he does do some good things.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 06, 2013, 04:44:51 PM
This thread pretty much has been turned into a turned into a DXLabs infomercial, especially with all the first time posters reading from the same script, obviously shilling for their friend.

Wikipedia's definition of shill is "someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services."

DXLab is free; there are no goods or services to be purchased. Ops who try DXLab are in no way constrained from trying other applications. Thus it's not possible to shill for DXLab.

It is certainly possible to shill for commercial applications.

That's what makes it all the more puzzling why you and all of these first time posters have bombarded this thread with their carbon-copy posts.

There is nothing puzzling about DXLab users responding to a request for recommendations for "best log for QSL Management/ award tracking". Their responses were hardly identical, and included callsigns, so anyone can contact these users directly to verify the authenticity of their posts.

To be honest, you're beginning to embarrass yourself.

I develop and support free software that automates QSLing and award tracking, and provides unique capabilities (http://www.dxlabsuite.com/differentiators.htm) that enhance the effectiveness of DXers. When someone posts a need that this software can satisfy, I respond. There's nothing remotely embarrassing about that.



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 07, 2013, 12:44:07 PM
There are also tens of thousands of DXLab USERS who have never written a review.
(Emphasis added by me)

Again with the numbers!

So are there really "tens of thousands" of actual users, or is it just that the program has been downloaded tens of thousands of times?

Among the 111 ops who took the time to download DXLab and write a review, the statistics are unarguable: 95% rated it 5. Fewer than 5% rated it 3 or lower.

Saying that there are "tens of thousands" of users would mean that there are at least 20,000 users of your program since tens of thousands implies that there is more than one multiple of ten thousand. So out of these 20,000 so-called "users", 105 of them think your program is great. That is a little over ½ of 1%. Besides being an incredibly small sampling, that number is not based on any scientific data collection method that I know of so I would have to say that you really cannot draw any definite conclusions based on that number alone.

You you go on to say:
There are more than 100 eHam reviews of DXLab that show Stan's opinion to be that of a small minority.
and:
I cited the eHam reviews to demonstrate that your low opinion of DXLab is that of a small minority.
and:
Your understanding of mathematics evidently needs a refresh.

And I could go on and on with the number of times you referenced the eHam reviews as a way of contradicting Stan’s remarks or confirming just how much the amateur radio community prefers your offering over the older MDI schemes, but I think you get the point.

But  with all due respect Dave, I think that you are the one who needs a refresher course in mathematics and statistical analysis. Just because ½ of 1% of the people that you claim to be users of your program gave it a 5 out of 5, this does necessarily translate into the fact that Stan’s opinion of DXLabs is that of a small minority.

Yes, we are engaged in a technology-based hobby, but I tend to believe that most of us are not all that sophisticated when it comes to computer technology. I also tend to believe that a great many of us are not even that sophisticated when it comes to being amateur radio operators. While you may use the latest techniques in programming, I think a lot of that skill is lost on people like me (and probably Stan) who do not necessarily need to have the bleeding edge technology in our shacks. And although your list of unique features is impressive, I also think a lot of that is lost on people like us.

To summarize:

1)   You are using false logic to assume (which is a very dangerous thing to do!) that just because 95% of the 111 people who reviewed your program gave it a “perfect” score, this is not necessarily is the consensus of “tens of thousands” of so-called “users”.
2)   You are so quick to write off Stan as being in the minority based on this small handful reviews, but I believe that Stan and I are actually more representative of the “typical” amateur radio operator.

I am not casting aspersions on your skills as a programmer or the value of your efforts. I think it is wonderful that you have the skill to translate your passion for amateur radio into a collection of programs and offer it for free. Obviously many people use it and find it to be of value. Of course you think your program is the best one-stop-shopping solution to station computerization and automation. After all, you wrote it!







Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 07, 2013, 02:35:19 PM
2)   You are so quick to write off Stan as being in the minority based on this small handful reviews, but I believe that Stan and I are actually more representative of the “typical” amateur radio operator.

I am the typical every day ham and have been for 53 years. I would probably like DXLabs if it looked and acted like a modern Windows program instead of looking like Win 3.1 software and that this being kind. . DXLabs has functionality, there is no doubt about it. Unfortunately you have to work at it to use it.

I want a logger that is pretty, looks like and acts like a Windows program and is Transparent. DxLabs is none of these.  I want to work DX and have fun, I do not want to work at my Logger, this is a hobby after all.

FWIW I am a active Dxer and since retirement have worked about 300 countries and I did it all without DXLabs.....

I am VERY disappointed in Dave.  This thread has has not helped his reputation. It has shown him to be a Aggressive Salesman who want to push and push and push his product no matter what..

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K6XT on September 07, 2013, 05:52:04 PM
The naysayers posting on this thread have apparently ignored my advice to go here:

https://secure.clublog.org/software.php

for a table of Clublog users by software application who have at least 200 DXCC in the log.

It might be interesting to propose that anyone other than a brand new or QRP ham who does NOT have 200 countries in the log may not be a DXer, or may not be interested in chasing awards, thus is not truly in the market for an award tracking logger like DXLabSuite. From the perspective that virtually anything including a spreadsheet or sheet of paper can function as a log.

Since my absolutely free advice (Hey! Like DXLabSuite!) hasn't been discussed I'll just post a little from Clublog, hope that's OK with them:
------------------------
This chart shows the logging software used by Club Log users who have worked more than 200 DXCCs (an approximation to filtering DXers). The population of users considered is limited to those with logging software that declares a PROGRAMID in uploaded ADIFs.
Product Name   % of Users
LOGGER32    40%
HAMRADIODELUXE   24%
DXKEEPER   22%
AMATEUR CONTACT LOG   7%
UR5EQF_LOG   7%
---------------
Clublog currently contains 25,970 callsigns, that is, 25,970 logs have been uploaded to Clublog. Extrapolating just from this table is therefore somewhat suspect, but lets try. Supposing the ratio between "users" and "users who have 200 DXCC" remains constant. That would imply there are 5,713 users who also use DXLabSuite. With well over a million hams worldwide only a small fraction, 25,970, use Clublog. Some of the other million use DXLabSuite. Thus it is not unreasonable to suppose that there is indeed at least one, ten-thousand ham unit, of hams using DXLabSuite. Conjecture to be sure but not at all unrealistic.

Looking at the table another way there is only a microscopic difference between the population of hams using Clublog with DXKeeper and with HRD Log.

Now look at this Clublog table, ARRL DXCC program Honor Roll recipients vs logger:
------------
This chart shows the logging software used by Club Log users who are on the DXCC honor roll (as measured by the number of DXCCs worked in their account). The population of users considered is limited to those with logging software that declares a PROGRAMID in uploaded ADIFs.
Product Name   % of Users
LOGGER32   55%
DXKEEPER   28%
DXBASE   7%
HAMRADIODELUXE   5%
WIN-EQF*   5%
-----------
Clearly showing some loggers fade quickly when confronted with a serious DXer, defined as one who is on the Honor Roll. Two loggers claim 83% of this category. I define serious DXer as someone vitally concerned with data integrity and with accurate award tracking, who invests considerable time working with (looking at) a logger. I'm one of those.

Now for the alternative view. Here's a Clublog look at new hams by logger:
--------------
This chart shows the logging software used by Club Log users who are on the DXCC honor roll (as measured by the number of DXCCs worked in their account). The population of users considered is limited to those with logging software that declares a PROGRAMID in uploaded ADIFs.
Software Used By New Hams [Top 5]

This chart shows the logging software used by Club Log users who have a total of less than 3 years activity in their log (excluding expeditions). The population of users considered is limited to those with logging software that declares a PROGRAMID in uploaded ADIFs.
Product Name   % of Users
HAMRADIODELUXE   39%
LOGGER32   30%
DXKEEPER   18%
UR5EQF_LOG   7%
WIN-TEST   7%
-------------------
Compare this table to the Honor Roll table. The inescapable conclusion to me is that new hams initially are taken in by the glitz approach some programs present to the user. Ultimately as the new user DXer matures they find some important features lacking in the glitz approach (as I do) and gravitate to other solutions like DXLabSuite and Logger32.

I've never seen Logger32, maybe I should go look. Seems like it captures a lot of interest. Although if the 32 means it only runs on 32 bit systems, that will be that, don't have any.

There is much more to be learned about loggers on Clublog. I'll close by repeating, for the dedicated or bored reader who got this far, the URL:

https://secure.clublog.org/software.php

DXLabSuite is not the only solution. From analyzing the ~25,970 calls submitted to Clublog there can be only one conclusion. Its one of the most popular. No matter what the nit pickers posting here have to say.

PS. Other than a satisfied user I have no interest in the administration of DXLabSuite or any other logger. And did I mention, its free. By far I do not have the largest log in ham radio. At 76,827 QSOs and counting, however, its also far from the smallest. Award tracking and data security, i.e. how well a logger cares for my database file, are paramount. Without wishing to display the numbers, it will suffice to say that DXLabSuite takes care of my ~77K QSO electronic log and tracks my awards with several bands well over 300 countries. Lacking a monumental reason I'd be a sucker to consider changing from something, DXLabSuite, that works.

Now if only I could find a typing student willing to enter my logs from 1958 to 1988. Frankly I'm too lazy. ( I began computer logging in '89). If anyone is willing to help with that send email to k6xt at arrl dot net.

73 Art K6XT



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 07, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
There are also tens of thousands of DXLab users who have never written a review.
So are there really "tens of thousands" of actual users
Yes.

Saying that there are "tens of thousands" of users would mean that there are at least 20,000 users of your program since tens of thousands implies that there is more than one multiple of ten thousand.
Correct.

So out of these 20,000 so-called "users", 105 of them think your program is great.
Of the 111 ops who chose to write a review of DXLab, 105 rated it 5.0. The larger population includes ops who have never heard of DXLab, ops have heard of it but have never tried it, ops who have tried it but don't use it and haven't reviewed it, and ops who use it, but haven't reviewed it.

And I could go on and on with the number of times you referenced the eHam reviews as a way of contradicting Stan’s remarks or confirming just how much the amateur radio community prefers your offering over the older MDI schemes, but I think you get the point.

But  with all due respect Dave, I think that you are the one who needs a refresher course in mathematics and statistical analysis. Just because ½ of 1% of the people that you claim to be users of your program gave it a 5 out of 5, this does necessarily translate into the fact that Stan’s opinion of DXLabs is that of a small minority.

Stan claimed that users who posted positive reviews of other applications counted as "rejections" of DXLab, which is ludicrous. Many ops who use other applications haven't even heard of DXLab, much less assessed it. It was in response to this claim that I suggested his need for a refresher.

Yes, we are engaged in a technology-based hobby, but I tend to believe that most of us are not all that sophisticated when it comes to computer technology. I also tend to believe that a great many of us are not even that sophisticated when it comes to being amateur radio operators. While you may use the latest techniques in programming, I think a lot of that skill is lost on people like me (and probably Stan) who do not necessarily need to have the bleeding edge technology in our shacks. And although your list of unique features is impressive, I also think a lot of that is lost on people like us.

I have not claimed that DXLab is appropriate for every user. It's strong automation of QSLing and award tracking is of little use to the op who rarely QSLs and doesn't pursue awards. Its ability to maintain a database of active DX stations that can be simultaneously viewed in multiple dimensions is highly valuable to HF DXers, but is of little interest to microwave or EME ops. DXLab is explicitly not a contesting application; it can generate Cabrillo logs, but does not (and will not ever) provide realtime scoring.

That said, every op appreciates using applications in which every reported defect has been corrected, and in which newly-reported defects are usually corrected within 24 hours. No matter what their appetite is for leading edge automation, most users love the ability to suggest an enhancement, refine that suggestion in collaboration with other users, download/update with a couple of mouse clicks a day or three later, and then suggest further refinements based on their and the user community's experience with the new capability.

DXLab has been growing through this collaborative process for the past 13 years, with direct engagement from thousands of users. These users have grown as well; not just in their ability to use DXLab, but in their understanding of software and its potential to amplify and extend human abilities.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 07, 2013, 06:46:51 PM
2)   You are so quick to write off Stan as being in the minority based on this small handful reviews, but I believe that Stan and I are actually more representative of the “typical” amateur radio operator.

I am the typical every day ham and have been for 53 years. I would probably like DXLabs if it looked and acted like a modern Windows program instead of looking like Win 3.1 software and that this being kind. . DXLabs has functionality, there is no doubt about it. Unfortunately you have to work at it to use it.

I want a logger that is pretty, looks like and acts like a Windows program and is Transparent. DxLabs is none of these.  I want to work DX and have fun, I do not want to work at my Logger, this is a hobby after all.

FWIW I am a active Dxer and since retirement have worked about 300 countries and I did it all without DXLabs.....

I am VERY disappointed in Dave.  This thread has has not helped his reputation. It has shown him to be a Aggressive Salesman who want to push and push and push his product no matter what..

I'm not selling anything; DXLab is completely free. Anyone who takes a look at DXLab and finds it inappropriate is free to try any alternative.

If DXLab is as terrible as you claim, Stan, why is it necessary for you to so tenaciously denounce it? If your assessment is correct, wouldn't users who try DXLab reach this conclusion on their own, and go on to other alternatives?

The reality is that most users who try DXLab find it easy to use and highly valuable, particularly for DXing. Many of those who contributed eHam reviews were previously using other logging applications, or had tried many other logging applications before choosing DXLab; they were not "newbies".

Unless you're just a forum policeman run amuck, your true motivation for aggressively seeking to limit awareness of DXLab can only be a fear that users who learn of it will give it a try, and many will choose it over other alternatives. Why this is problematic for you is an exercise left to the reader.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 07, 2013, 06:54:59 PM
Just as an overall comment - there's a lot that can mislead people in an unscientific ratings system.

Suppose I try program A and I rate it a "5.0".

Suppose in a month I then try program B and I find it is a lot better than program A. Now I want to rate program B. The problem is I can't rate it higher than program A even though I think it's a lot better. All I can do now is rate it the same as program A - a "5.0", even though I'd like to rate it, say, a "8.0" as compared to program A.

And so it goes. Sometimes I wish there were no ratings numbers - just pros and cons for each item in the review. Quite a bit of this is subjective and so what is a con to one person is a pro to another.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N0IU on September 08, 2013, 05:14:10 AM
Hey Stan, the next time you come up to St. Louis from beautiful Southern Illinois, I will buy you a beer and you can come over to my house so I can show you all of my "wall candy" that I earned without the benefit of DXLabs software.

Or maybe I will see you at the Winterfest in Collinsville on January 25, 2014. You can't miss me. I'll be the guy wearing a baseball cap with my callsign on it!


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 08, 2013, 05:22:56 AM
Or maybe I will see you at the Winterfest in Collinsville on January 25, 2014. You can't miss me. I'll be the guy wearing a baseball cap with my callsign on it!

WX permitting I always go to Winterfest. Kirkwood Halloween fest too.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 08, 2013, 05:23:40 AM
Stan, why is it necessary for you to so tenaciously denounce it?

Unless you're just a forum policeman run amuck, your true motivation for aggressively seeking to limit awareness of DXLab can only be a fear that users who learn of it will give it a try, and many will choose it over other alternatives. Why this is problematic for you is an exercise left to the reader.

HUH?????
Have you not been paying attention to what I have been posting Dave?
Oh I forgot you only see what you want to see and try to spin what you do not like...

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial.

Do you not understand what ALL means Dave? It means ALL loggers INCLUDING DXLABs.

The only ham who has been tenacious in this thread has been you. Salesman Dave AA6YQ has been Tenaciously promoting and pushing DXLabs over and over and over and over every post you make...

YES leave to the reader, keep it up Dave, you are making quite an impression ...


Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on September 08, 2013, 11:24:20 AM
Stan, why is it necessary for you to so tenaciously denounce it?

Unless you're just a forum policeman run amuck, your true motivation for aggressively seeking to limit awareness of DXLab can only be a fear that users who learn of it will give it a try, and many will choose it over other alternatives. Why this is problematic for you is an exercise left to the reader.

Have you not been paying attention to what I have been posting Dave?

Yes: You've repeatedly insisted that I stop responding to users seeking recommendations for functionality that DXLab provides, arguing that users should somehow discover DXLab on their own. Minimizing awareness of DXLab is clearly your objective.

Call me names, post in bold, and use those goofy icons as much as you like: I will continue to develop DXLab in collaboration with its user community, DXLab will always be free, and I will continue to respond to user requests here and elsewhere that DXLab would satisfy.

Case closed.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 08, 2013, 01:58:59 PM
your true motivation for aggressively seeking to limit awareness of DXLab can only be a fear that users who learn of it will give it a try, and many will choose it over other alternatives.

 arguing that users should somehow discover DXLab on their own. Minimizing awareness of DXLab is clearly your objective.

 post in bold, and use those goofy icons as much as you like: 

Case closed.


 HUH?????? HUH?????? What you talking about Dave?    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  :D :D :D :D :D :D

I have said before and will say it again:

Try all the loggers out, they have a free trial.

Do you not understand what ALL means Dave? It means ALL loggers INCLUDING DXLABs.


CASE CLOSED
   :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;) ;) :) :) :'( :P :-[ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-\ :-\ :-\ :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: NI0C on September 10, 2013, 06:38:47 PM
Quote
I am VERY disappointed in Dave.  This thread has has not helped his reputation. It has shown him to be a Aggressive Salesman who want to push and push and push his product no matter what..

Look, Dave, AA6YQ, one of the world's top DX'ers, has been continuously upgrading his DXLab software modules and offering it to the amateur community for free for 13 years.  You obviously don't like the software and have been complaining about it in this forum ad nauseum. 

Dave has patiently rebutted your remarks and corrected you and others concerning distortions and mis-perceptions.  That's not "pushing a product." It is fact-checking.  Dave's reputation is not tarnished a bit.

What about your reputation, though?  What are we to make of a person who continuously attacks someone who has given so much to the amateur community, and doesn't have the decency to say "no thanks" if he doesn't like it, and move on?

73,
Chuck  NI0C


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 11, 2013, 04:25:41 AM

Dave has patiently rebutted your remarks and corrected you and others concerning distortions and mis-perceptions.  That's not "pushing a product." It is fact-checking. 

Thanks for my laugh of the day. All Dave has done here is what he always does in any Logger/Digital thread. He pushes his product. His or my reputation has nothing to do with his constant DxLabs advertisements in eham forums.

It is no distortion to say that DXLabs has an outdated and ugly, non-intuitive GUI. It is merely the truth, no matter how Dave spins it.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: NI0C on September 11, 2013, 04:54:14 AM

Dave has patiently rebutted your remarks and corrected you and others concerning distortions and mis-perceptions.  That's not "pushing a product." It is fact-checking. 

Thanks for my laugh of the day. All Dave has done here is what he always does in any Logger/Digital thread. He pushes his product. His or my reputation has nothing to do with his constant DxLabs advertisements in eham forums.

It is no distortion to say that DXLabs has an outdated and ugly, non-intuitive GUI. It is merely the truth, no matter how Dave spins it.

Stan K9IUQ

I'm glad you are so easily amused. 

So Dave mentions his free software when the subject of logging software comes up.  I think that's entirely appropriate.  It's how I learned about it.   

So you don't happen to like the looks of the interface-- why do you have this need to be so repetitive about it?  In a forum post above, Art, K6XT, has provided data showing that a whole lot of serious DX'ers worldwide choose to use DXLab-- they don't care what you think.

Your reputation is not enhanced by sniping at what others are contributing to the hobby. 

73,
Chuck  NI0C

     


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 11, 2013, 05:06:47 AM
It is no distortion to say that DXLabs has an outdated and ugly, non-intuitive GUI. It is merely the truth, no matter how Dave spins it.

I don't really need it yet, but I'm going to download the DX Labs logging package (DX Keeper?) and just see what all the fuss is about. I've been using Windows for a long time at home and in my career and I'm as qualified as anyone to make comments at least about the user interface, if nothing else.  :)


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 11, 2013, 05:32:53 AM
why do you have this need to be so repetitive about it? 

Your reputation is not enhanced by sniping at what others are contributing to the hobby. 

What you should be asking yourself is WHY does Dave have to be so repetitive in his constant advertising in the forums? If DxLabs is so superior why does Dave not like my approach of "Try all the Loggers - figure out what works for you". This is a sensible approach of finding a good logger.

Dave, you and other DxLabers find my approach offensive. Why??

My reputation is not the topic here and I could care less what you or anyone else thinks about K9IUQ. I tell truths and nothing will change that.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: NI0C on September 11, 2013, 07:15:48 AM
why do you have this need to be so repetitive about it? 

Your reputation is not enhanced by sniping at what others are contributing to the hobby. 

What you should be asking yourself is WHY does Dave have to be so repetitive in his constant advertising in the forums? If DxLabs is so superior why does Dave not like my approach of "Try all the Loggers - figure out what works for you". This is a sensible approach of finding a good logger.

Dave, you and other DxLabers find my approach offensive. Why??

My reputation is not the topic here and I could care less what you or anyone else thinks about K9IUQ. I tell truths and nothing will change that.

Stan K9IUQ
Stan,
You are punching at a straw man here.  Nobody has argued against competitive evaluation of logging software. 

I used the word reputation because that's the word you used in connection with Dave.  Read my first posting in this topic. 
73,
Chuck  NI0C


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AK7V on September 11, 2013, 10:10:35 AM
As an unbiased observer, it really looks like IUQ has an axe to grind or some sort of personal issue with YQ.

Of course the author of a program is going to want people to use it.  Of course he's going to think it's great.  He might even denigrate the competition (although I haven't seen it, either way, it's not unreasonable).

I think we're all smart enough to realize that YQ is biased towards his own creation, and to realize that there are many logging options and that we can try most of them for free.  Telling us that over and over -- as if YQ's description of his software (in an appropriate setting) somehow captivates us and renders us incapable of independent thought and evaluation -- isn't adding anything to the conversation.  It's just turning the thread ugly and negative, in my opinion.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: W2EJG on September 12, 2013, 07:04:09 AM
Win-EQF does it all and easily. Not clunky, straightforward management of LOTW and paper QSLs.

I have used it since my old log blew up 1/1/2000

My 2p

Bob  W2EJG


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 15, 2013, 05:15:22 AM
Win-EQF does it all and easily. Not clunky, straightforward management of LOTW and paper QSLs.

You talking about this? It looks like an old DOS program from 20 years ago.  ::)

Win-EQF (http://www.bitwrap.no/web/index.php?id=eqf)

(http://www.bitwrap.no/web/uploads/pics/SC_Logging_01.png)


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: K9IUQ on September 15, 2013, 01:12:49 PM
You talking about this? It looks like an old DOS program from 20 years ago.  ::)

Win-Eqf is one of the few programs that looks even uglier than DxLabs. At least Win-Eqf has a windows menu bar.

I like pretty programs that actually look like Windows software. For instance HRD, CommCat, Logic 9.....
They are not only pretty but very functional with lots of options.

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5INP on September 24, 2013, 05:01:00 PM
Well, I've taken a look at a few logging suites, but most seemed way to complex for me, at least at the moment. The amount of features was just mind-boggling.

So, I eventually got to Log4OM and I really like it. It's not too complicated and it has an easy to use interface. I have only played with it today so I will investigate it further over the next week.  :)


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: N5TM on November 13, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
After reading the QST December article on DX Lab, I thought I'd give it a try.  Well..... the website is bad, I mean really bad.  I think I went around in circles for 20 minutes before I stumbled across the actual download link. 

I'm thinking to myself.  If the website is this bad, what is the software like??? 

Next to the install...  Ohhh my... it is apparent that DX Lab is written in Visual Basic V 6.0 or C++ 32bit which has been obsolete for a dozen years.  I should know since I have been re-writing VB6 code into Visual Studio code for the last dozen years. 

I'm not being a software snob here, there are some significant drawbacks to the old 32 bit code.  It does not support threading.  In a multi-task environment this can lead to slow and stalled applications.  It does not directly support XML which has become the standard for modern software development. 

The biggest drawback is that old 32bit apps are not directly compatible with W7 or W8 OS.   When VB6 was written, Windows OS had not yet evolved into a secure OS and there were no protected folders.   This is the reason for the detailed instructions on how to get around security issues on the install pages.  Many VB6 applications saved their environment variables directly into the registry.  This is a big no-no now days.

A re-write into Visual Studio VB or C# would add multithreading, direct integration to XML, and the ability to interface to SQL and Web Services directly. 

All these efforts would time, be well worth the effort.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: NI0C on November 13, 2013, 07:20:30 PM
N5TM wrote:
Quote
After reading the QST December article on DX Lab, I thought I'd give it a try.  Well..... the website is bad, I mean really bad.  I think I went around in circles for 20 minutes before I stumbled across the actual download link.

I'm thinking to myself.  If the website is this bad, what is the software like??? 

Sheesh.  It's been a few years since I looked at the download site, so I brought it up.  Took me maybe fifteen seconds to find the download button.  Moreover, the reason I haven't needed to refer to the DXLab download page is that the DXLab Launcher program handles all of the upgrade downloads of revised program modules and databases for me. 

The software works just fine on my old XP machine with limited resources.  I'm a serious DX'er and I trust it with my entire logbook, with QSO's dating back to 1959, and I use it every day.   



Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: G0NYD on March 11, 2014, 12:36:58 PM
I came across this program via eHam.net and I must say it is a great program with easy to read instructions and simple to use with some great features. I will recommend this to anyone looking for a new amateur radio logging program. A huge well done guys. John G0NYD / EA7JRI


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on March 13, 2014, 05:46:55 PM
I just noticed this post; mycomments are interspersed below.

After reading the QST December article on DX Lab, I thought I'd give it a try.  Well..... the website is bad, I mean really bad.  I think I went around in circles for 20 minutes before I stumbled across the actual download link.  

There's a Download tab in the row of tabs running across the middle of the web page. More than 1500 users have been downloading and installing DXLab each month for the past several years; you are the first to report being unable to find the Download tab.


Next to the install...  Ohhh my... it is apparent that DX Lab is written in Visual Basic V 6.0 or C++ 32bit which has been obsolete for a dozen years.  

There is nothing remotely obsolete about VB 6.0; applications written in VB6 run on all versions of Microsoft Windows, including 8.1, and have access to all new OS capabilities via the Windows API. It's true that Microsoft no longer provides updates to VB6; as a result, it enjoys a level of stability unusual for a Microsoft product.


I should know since I have been re-writing VB6 code into Visual Studio code for the last dozen years.  

My sincere condolences.


I'm not being a software snob here, there are some significant drawbacks to the old 32 bit code.  It does not support threading.  In a multi-task environment this can lead to slow and stalled applications.

Perhaps you can explain how DXLab manages to accept DX spots from up to 6 sources (including the high-speed Reverse Beacon Network) while decoding up to 50 separate PSK transmissions, using all of this incoming information to update a database of active DX stations and provide the user with up-to-date tabular, bandspread, world map, propagation, and "heat-map" views of this database -- all in real time with no "stalling" whatsoever. Checkout what users have to say (http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3139).


It does not directly support XML which has become the standard for modern software development.  

DXLab has supported XML for years; for example, it uses XML when interacting with QRZ's "XML Data" callbook lookup service. XML is a straightforward representation for which a recursive parser can easily be written. I'd be happy to recommend an introductory text if you'd like to learn how to do this. You might employ this knowledge to automate some of your application "translation" work.


The biggest drawback is that old 32bit apps are not directly compatible with W7 or W8 OS.   When VB6 was written, Windows OS had not yet evolved into a secure OS and there were no protected folders.  

Neither Windows 7 nor Windows 8 is remotely secure, as the worldwide network of script kiddies demonstrates every day. And as any member of the Windows Vista development team will admit, "Protected Folders" were introduced to provide the illusion of security, and nothing more. Anyone with a basic understanding of operating system security should understand this.


This is the reason for the detailed instructions on how to get around security issues on the install pages.  

Translation: by default, the DXLab Launcher installs itself and the rest of DXLab in C:\DXLab rather than C:\Program Files.


Many VB6 applications saved their environment variables directly into the registry.  This is a big no-no now days.

DXLab has no "environment variables".


A re-write into Visual Studio VB or C# would add multithreading, direct integration to XML, and the ability to interface to SQL and Web Services directly.

As has already been pointed out, DXLab achieves significant parallelism, and employs XML. DXLab provides users with the optional ability to employ SQL in filtering one's Log or in filtering the database of active DX stations. DXLab includes a web server that provides remote access to the database of active DX stations. It provides full synchronization with LotW, eQSL.cc, and ClubLog by employing the web services they provide.


All these efforts would time, be well worth the effort.

Each of your alleged limitations has been refuted by citing capabilities long provided by DXLab. I have no need to keep developers entertained by allowing them to "port" DXLab to Microsoft's latest and greatest bugfest. When it's appropriate to move DXLab to another platform, I'll exploit its loosely-coupled modular architecture to do so in an incremental manner, continuing to support the DXLab user community with new functionality on a weekly basis and keeping the backlog of reported but uncorrected defects at zero, as I do today.

   73,

        Dave, AA6YQ (author, DXLab)


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: KB1NXE on March 15, 2014, 01:38:32 PM
I just noticed this post; mycomments are interspersed below.

...
   73,

        Dave, AA6YQ (author, DXLab)


Just noticed it?  You've been commenting all through it to the tune of several dozen posts.

Time to see your doctor Dave.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: AA6YQ on March 15, 2014, 01:45:36 PM
I just noticed this post; mycomments are interspersed below.

...
   73,

        Dave, AA6YQ (author, DXLab)


Just noticed it?  You've been commenting all through it to the tune of several dozen posts.

Time to see your doctor Dave.

I just noticed N5TM's post dated November 13, 2013, and replied to it.

The words post and thread have different meanings.


Title: RE: Best Log for QSL Mangement/ award tracking
Post by: WA9PIE on March 17, 2014, 10:39:03 AM
HRD covers over 215 awards and over 118 endorsements in 16 popular awards programs. More are being added soon.

Native upload/download for LOTW, eQSL... and 6.2 will support ClubLog.

Mike, WA9PIE