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eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 02, 2014, 05:50:53 AM



Title: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 02, 2014, 05:50:53 AM
Quote from: N3IG on Today at 05:19:16 AM
Quote from: ZENKI on December 28, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
ZENKI WROTE:
In many countries they have qualification  based ham licence applications. I would rather see more engineers and marine CW operators get fathered into
the ham service than the current CB lids that seem to want to ruin ham radio.


N3IG WROTE:
     If not for CB the ham bands would be almost dead by now. That is where I got my interest peaked and like most CBers in the last 30 years had to pass a code test to get my license. CB peaked in the late 70s to early 80s and code did not go away until 2007 which means the CB lids you refer to had to learn code to get thier ticket. How many people have told you they like to talk on CB radio have you elmered into getting a ham license?  I would dare say with your prejudice none, that sir is ruining ham radio.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA1ZP on January 02, 2014, 06:45:54 AM
Yep

Here an other old CB lid with morse code.
But I know a lot of hams coming from CB, some are good some are less good.
I do not think that CB or CW has anything to do with being a good ham, it depends more on the person.

73 Jos


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: S51M on January 02, 2014, 07:20:01 AM
It's only a Hobby. There's nothing wrong with CB guys which came to us. In fact, for phone or digimode QSO you dont need very much knowledge, experience come with activity. Instead, try to learn CW and search there for QSO with some content, not only short "TU 5NN".

73 DE S51M, Bruno


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W0BTU on January 02, 2014, 08:43:23 AM
We do hear more of the type of slang and behavior on the ham bands that was/is more common on CB.
But I don't think we can pin the blame on CB or hams who started there. The world and society as a whole is simply deteriorating more and more as time progresses. Just look at the news. Look at the language and behavior on prime-time TV and movies which has gradually crept in in the past few decades. Look at what kids are doing now compared to several decades ago.

I have some other opinions about why the ham bands are the way they are, which I won't go into because they inevitable start never-ending arguments.

The reality is, we are not likely going to change it. Instead of sitting and stewing over behavior that we don't approve of, spin the VFO or band switch and get out of there.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 02, 2014, 08:58:22 AM
 Question: How the hell does anyone DESTROY a HAM BAND? Unless Congress can get it's act together and pass some legislation that will change the Law of physics there will always be a range (band) of frequencies available and certain folks (Hams) are LEGALLY allowed to use them. I fail to understand how a CB lid, back hoe operator, retired pimp or anybody else is going to destroy a range of frequencies.

As of last night I was surfing the Ham Bands, and heard QRPers, contesters, CW,AM,SSB,RITTY ,Digital modes operators and yes a few scattered lids of various backgrounds other than ex CBers, everyone appeared to have their own little piece of real estate on the BAND to do their thing and I didn't see any evidence of Band destruction on 80,40,30,20,17,15, meters anyway.

It appears that the Founding Fathers of this Topic are still suffering a hang over from NYE.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: NO2A on January 02, 2014, 01:06:49 PM
I don`t think anyone is destroying our bands. Amateur Radio is all about promoting good will to everyone. As they say on channel 19,"Can`t we all just get along?"


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA0KDW on January 02, 2014, 01:41:20 PM
Question: How the hell does anyone DESTROY a HAM BAND?

It is the way you read it. You can't destroy a band but you can destroy the pleasure of  the(former)  users.

And I can assure you that that is what happened over the years fin the experience  a lot of old timers.

30


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W5GNB on January 02, 2014, 09:08:03 PM
CB has really nothing to do with the ham bands, for one, it is a completely different service and there is actually a good bit of courtesy and organization going on down there in and around all the foolishness..... Much like the Ham bands.....

Fortunately, the Radio Misfits tend to congregate around a few known frequencies and really don't get too far away to bother people for the most part.

What has hurt the Ham bands is the Dumming Down of the testing requirements which has led to a lack of pride in accomplishment to obtain the license in the first place and the constant barrage of contesting EVERY WEEKEND that virtually makes the ham bands useless for anything but Contesting.

It's a different world from the 60's and before when there was a little pride in the Hobby !!!!

 


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N1RND on January 03, 2014, 05:19:34 PM
I don't know.  It's hard to say.  I know of alot of new Hams who came up from the CB ranks lately.  These OPS are good decisplined Hams always involved in perfecting the art of a radio op,ing.   I came from there, 35 years ago.  I operate on both services.
I will say that I hear bad, (nasty) operating on the HF bands by OPS that have been licensed for a long time!
Go figure.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N1RND on January 03, 2014, 05:29:02 PM
AND, you have to remember ONE MORE THING!
Just like every other aspect of life.  There is a degradation of civillation.  It does not matter if you are in traffic trying to make a turn,  in line at the local fast food place, or at work with you co-workers.  People are inconsiderate, ignorant, and rude.

This is a reflection of the ME  attitude.  The hell with everybody else.  Its sad but true.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K6RQR on January 04, 2014, 12:47:47 PM
W5GNB -
 Couldn't agree more about the incessant contests. It used to be that there were a lot fewer of them and they meant a lot more. It is also irritating that people who work during the week have to put up with this when they have a chance to operate on the weekends. Also, who the hell invented these insipid state QSO parties? And some of the special events stations? One of the "special" events stations was some guy who monopolized a frequency so that they could commemorate the 50th anniversary of the publication of some book by Ayn Rand! Are you kidding me? As the Italians say - BASTA! Enough!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W0BTU on January 04, 2014, 01:42:53 PM
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests
 ;)


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB4QAA on January 04, 2014, 02:12:39 PM
No, CB'ers aren't the reason for the prominence of bad actors on the bands these days.

Beyond the general decline in manners (and less fear of the FCC), the main reason there are so many idiots is that there are three (3) times as many licensed hams as thirty years ago.

Imagine that we had two thirds fewer hams as in 1980 and there would be a lot fewer idiots on the bands.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K0BT on January 04, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
Imagine that we had two thirds fewer hams as in 1980 and there would be a lot fewer idiots on the bands.

They would be fewer in number, but the 10% rule would still apply.   ;D

Language seems to deteriorate over time.  I cringe every time I hear a local news reporter offer to explain "what went down" at a crime scene.  I cringe as well at some of the language and behavior on the ham bands, but I don't attribute it to the folks who graduated from the CB ranks and I try not to let the ignorance of others affect my behavior.  I may be well on my way towards becoming a codger but I am trying to be a tolerant OM.

73,
Bob







Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N0IU on January 04, 2014, 03:25:50 PM
One of the "special" events stations was some guy who monopolized a frequency so that they could commemorate the 50th anniversary of the publication of some book by Ayn Rand! Are you kidding me?

And so what do you talk about on the air? How to cure the world of disease and starvation? How to prevent homelessness? How to solve global warming? How to bring peace to the Middle East?

I am glad you have such important things to talk about on the air!

So the guy parked himself on a single frequency to commemorate a book... so what? How EXACTLY did one guy on one frequency prevent YOU from getting on the air?

Beyond the general decline in manners (and less fear of the FCC), the main reason there are so many idiots is that there are three (3) times as many licensed hams as thirty years ago.

Where are you getting your statistics? Can you quote your source or are you just pulling numbers out of thin air? According to the 1981 Amateur Radio Callbook, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 433,000 licensed amateurs in the United States. Multiply that by 3 and you get 1,299,000. According to the ah0a.org website, there were 717,201 licensed amateurs as of 12/13/2013. You are off by almost 580,000! I am glad you're not my accountant!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 04, 2014, 03:58:34 PM
N0IU are you having a bad day?

One of the "special" events stations was some guy who monopolized a frequency so that they could commemorate the 50th anniversary of the publication of some book by Ayn Rand! Are you kidding me?

And so what do you talk about on the air? How to cure the world of disease and starvation? How to prevent homelessness? How to solve global warming? How to bring peace to the Middle East?

I am glad you have such important things to talk about on the air!

So the guy parked himself on a single frequency to commemorate a book... so what? How EXACTLY did one guy on one frequency prevent YOU from getting on the air?

Beyond the general decline in manners (and less fear of the FCC), the main reason there are so many idiots is that there are three (3) times as many licensed hams as thirty years ago.

Where are you getting your statistics? Can you quote your source or are you just pulling numbers out of thin air? According to the 1981 Amateur Radio Callbook, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 433,000 licensed amateurs in the United States. Multiply that by 3 and you get 1,299,000. According to the ah0a.org website, there were 717,201 licensed amateurs as of 12/13/2013. You are off by almost 580,000! I am glad you're not my accountant!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N0IU on January 04, 2014, 04:10:08 PM
N0IU are you having a bad day?

Oh no... I am having a fabulous day!

Obviously K6RQR is the one having a bad day when one station on one frequency who isn't using amateur radio in a manner in which he feels is appropriate that it causes him so much consternation. I can understand when a major contest takes up a whole section of multiple bands, but to complain about one guy on one band... Are you kidding me?

And KB4QAA fabricating statistics out of thin air. Anyone can win an argument with statistics... IF YOU MAKE THEM UP!



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KG4YBH on January 04, 2014, 04:16:20 PM
CB has really nothing to do with the ham bands, for one, it is a completely different service and there is actually a good bit of courtesy and organization going on down there in and around all the foolishness..... Much like the Ham bands.....

Fortunately, the Radio Misfits tend to congregate around a few known frequencies and really don't get too far away to bother people for the most part.

What has hurt the Ham bands is the Dumming Down of the testing requirements which has led to a lack of pride in accomplishment to obtain the license in the first place and the constant barrage of contesting EVERY WEEKEND that virtually makes the ham bands useless for anything but Contesting.

It's a different world from the 60's and before when there was a little pride in the Hobby !!!!


Oh my god your right, I just realized it, I am an idiot so they had to make the test easier for me. Never mind I graduated from the Navies nuclear power program, am a licensed pilot and have worked my way up from oiler to engineering officer in the merchant marine, I am an idiot. I was feeling pretty proud that I passed my general exam this morning. Now I have no pride in any of my accomplishments, I guess I will just go sit in a dark room and cry now.

 


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KG4YBH on January 04, 2014, 04:22:30 PM
CB has really nothing to do with the ham bands, for one, it is a completely different service and there is actually a good bit of courtesy and organization going on down there in and around all the foolishness..... Much like the Ham bands.....

Fortunately, the Radio Misfits tend to congregate around a few known frequencies and really don't get too far away to bother people for the most part.

What has hurt the Ham bands is the Dumming Down of the testing requirements which has led to a lack of pride in accomplishment to obtain the license in the first place and the constant barrage of contesting EVERY WEEKEND that virtually makes the ham bands useless for anything but Contesting.

It's a different world from the 60's and before when there was a little pride in the Hobby !!!!


Oh my god your right, I just realized it, I am an idiot so they had to make the test easier for me. Never mind I graduated from the Navies nuclear power program, am a licensed pilot and have worked my way up from oiler to engineering officer in the merchant marine, I am an idiot. I was feeling pretty proud that I passed my general exam this morning. Now I have no pride in any of my accomplishments, I guess I will just go sit in a dark room and cry now.

 


Well that did not post well as it put my reply in with the quote.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KD8IIC on January 04, 2014, 05:28:13 PM
  No, They Have Not...This posting is totally stupid and very shameful. Yes, many of us "Newbie" hams came out of the 11m ranks...SO WHAT? Does not mean we are all bad, Lids or Evil as you would portray us all to be...And some of us have even learned Morse and we work CW daily, so please put that in your pipe and smoke it!...There are better things for you all to do than to endlessly bitch-n-moan about all the new hams out of 11m ranks and what they were doing BEFORE they ventured into your sacred realm OM...Believe it or not, we know how to behave ourselves. Why not look up the Mal-Contents in your extra class?...Remember k1man? No beginner but an Extra...
Code Free Licensing Is A Fact... It is Working...Get Over it Please!!!!!  73 to you who will listen. :)


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W0BTU on January 04, 2014, 05:28:47 PM
And so what do you talk about on the air?

The 160m EUCW contest is on in 30 minutes.  ;D


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 04, 2014, 05:28:59 PM
Re: KG4YBH

Keep your well deserved pride, stay out of that dark room and just laugh at the 99% of hams that think the Main Steam and Water Cycle is a 10 speed bike in a hot tub and a Reefer Flat is a crack house. Congrats on your General. JKA USNR/USMS Ret.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W4KYR on January 04, 2014, 05:46:38 PM
51% of ham radio ops started with CB radio on a survey done here on eham last year.

http://www.eham.net/survey/1232

'Did you start on your journey to ham radio by participating in Citizens Band Radio?'
Posted: Feb 28, 2013   (2256 votes, 101 comments) by AI2IA

Survey Results
Yes. I began with CB.    51% (1146)
No. I began with ham radio.    49% (1110)






Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KD8IIC on January 04, 2014, 06:00:13 PM
  YES, I did. de KDV4846 if memory serves correctly. Had a lot of fun doing 11m. I was not fortunate enough to have a local ham to Elmer me.We lived in the country. I tried to learn Morse as best as I could alone but with very limited rescources.
 I had a respectible HF listening post tough later on in adult life with an HQ100, an HQ170 and a 51J3, RTTY reader and all!...What a blast! Got Tech and a month after Gen in '08' ...Doing CW Daily since 10/12....  73


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W0BTU on January 04, 2014, 06:43:22 PM
I was a ham first (WN8BTU and WD8BTU). For a short time while I was WD8BTU, I was on CB using SSB. But it's been years.

All I use CB for is to listen, to see if 10 meters might be open.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: VK6IS on January 05, 2014, 05:53:33 AM
there was a HUGE number of CBers who "upgraded to a HAM ticket" in the '80s & '90s
- but with the explosion of mobiles, the need for a CB has diminished somewhat.

some say, that any future growth < youngsters > will be from the PC crowd, but that's rather doubtful, at best.

over here, the use of UHF type CB is more widespread than the regular HF type is.
- the UHF crowd are unlikely to be  "upgraded to a HAM ticket" - any time soon.

it was "skip" that attracted lots of HF CBers to be "upgraded to a HAM ticket".
- that attraction doesn't exist, any more .. ..


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: HURRICAINE on January 05, 2014, 07:47:11 AM
If you look at the history of the citizens band and you look at the history of amateur radio, they both have similarities.

In the early days of the citizens band, you had to have a license and your license permitted you to only talk back to a 2nd radio that you owned and were licensed to operate.  You would have a Base radio and a unit radio or a mobile radio depending upon how you described your alternate unit.

Then they changed the rules so you could talk locally to anyone within your local district.  This is when it became a hobby.

Then they changed the rules so you were allowed to talk to anyone within 155 miles of your base.

The manufacturers got the bright idea that selling a couple of radios was great, but if you could sell hundreds of thousands of radios - this would be even better.  So they enticed the truck drivers to buy radios by making them solid state - no tubes.
Tubes did not like rough roads or vibration.

When the mobile numbers overtook the base numbers, the sentiment was that I don't need a license as long as I can use my handle and no one is going to catch me because I am mobile and they have to find me first!

When the little kids, people playing music, deranged lunatic's came along, along with people with deep pockets that bought amateur grade equipment - Yaesu FT 101's and amplifiers, it was only a matter of time before it was doomed.

Amateur radio had a select few people participating.
Some people had deep pockets and some people actually bought their way into amateur radio, while others had the intelligence to pass the tests - but not the mental capacity to understand what they were doing or who they were doing it to.

With the manufactures crying that they did not have enough sales and the amateurs crying that they didn't have enough qualified people to fill their ranks, they dropped the license requirements and left everyone in.

Some old timers held on to their junk while others sold their junk and upgraded to better equipment.  This created a market for amateur radio equipment and was an enticement to get more people involved.

The people who had already ruined CB turned to Amateur Radio for a quiet place to talk, because they already had the freeband equipment and they had a fear of getting caught freebanding so they figured they might as well just go ahead and get the license and make it legal.

The old hams and new hams that wanted to make a quick buck gave bogus VE test sessions or outright sold licenses to their friends.

For the most part, some of these people only ever got a Novice class license - which was upgraded to Technician when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.  Or they held a tech plus license, which means that they passed the written portion of the exam but could not pass the code.  They were upgraded to General when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.

This is the reason why 65% of all licensed amateurs only has a Technician class license and why a majority of others only has a General Class license.

You hear them on the radio saying - I don't need to upgrade my license to amateur extra just to get that extra little portion of the band.  When what they are really saying is that they are too dumb to pass the test and the only reason why they have the class of license that they do have is because they were grandfathered into it, or that was all the more money they were willing to pay someone to license them.

For the most part, you don't have as many problems with the new hams as you do with the old ones.  The new ones still has the fear of the Lord in them that the FCC will take away their license if they misbehave.
It is the ones that got their license in the 80's and 90's that you have the most problems with.

Those people came from the bad trash CB radio and they brought their ideals with them and their values and they sit there like they are on the telephone and they don't use their call signs and they talk all kinds of garbage - but they really don't have anything to say - they are just hanging out together like they did when they were on the CB radio.

You have the same crowd that bought their way in that bought expensive amplifiers and radios and microphones and they sit there and broadcast to each other.  Other then a few O&O's that are willing to stick their necks out and tell them that what they are doing is wrong, there is no one to enforce the rules.

We have a crowd of misfits here on the two meters simplex that does this daily and they talk about me because I stirred the pot.  Even though I don't normally talk to them anymore, my name comes up about twice a day.  When their pink slips arrived, this only infuriated them further to the point of where death threats were made.  Typical CB radio BS.  Even though the O&O that wrote them up was 90 miles away.  They failed to realize that when you put a signal on the air, nothing is private, and there is nothing to keep someone with a good radio from listening to you, as long as their location is higher then your location.  Even on two meters.

Most of the LIDS I hear on the HF are located on 80 and 160 meters.  I guess it makes them more important the higher they go.
Yes you can hear them down in 10 meters also.
20 isn't too bad, but 40 has so much garbage most times it isn't worth listening to.

I've never heard many LIDS on CW other then the inconsiderate people that operates outside of the band plan.  The Canadians likes to operate phone on 7072 which is the digital portion in the USA, but that is their prerogative.. I guess it all boils down to the CB radio mentality of I am going to do it because it isn't illegal.
Even though it does interfere with a whole group of people that are trying to use the band legally.

If they gave a mental evaluation along with a competency test for amateur radio, half of the people licensed wouldn't be!

The last CW VE tests were so simple it was pathetic.
You basically had 5 different questions that were asked in CW such as what is your call sign, where are you from etc...
You could guess which question it was and have a 50 50 chance of getting it right with out ever hearing one note of CW in your whole life.

 Had they sent messages in official ARRL format, most no one would have passed the CW portion of the test 15 years ago...

The only thing to do to get rid of the lids is to send emails to the ARRL along with recordings of the audio of the violators and turn them in.   When the ARRL gets enough complaints they will turn in who ever is causing the problems and they will get fines and it will be a federal case instead of a civil.

When enough people are turned in, the offenses will stop.

The problem is, there is no Elmers anymore to teach the new hams how to operate because there is very few people that actually knows how to operate properly themselves.  Even less that knows all of the Part 97...  With the mentality - I can do it myself, it is hard to get new hams paired up with Elmers, because no one wants to listen to someone or have someone tell them what they can and can't do!

Does this sound familiar?
Basically what we are doing is just turning out another set of LIDS for the next generation to put up with and it starts all over again.
Some people are actually attracted to this type of mentality.
That is why the buddy groups lasts as long as they do.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 05, 2014, 08:01:47 AM
TenTec came out with their Rebel Transceiver to attract the young PC crowd.
There is a Yahoo Group dedicated to the Rebel. Lot of excitement knowing
one can obtain the code from this site and add accessories to the basic Rebel. Neat
idea.

The local radio clubs, should say Repeater Clubs, which help students obtain their
ham ticket don't go far enough. It usually ends with the person passing the Technician
Class License and then purchasing a 2 mtr HandHeld and take part in Car Shows at local
eateries providing "communication" for traffic, or for 5K races.

There is no elmering to teach proper HF mannerisms. Most of the members at the local radio clubs don't
even operate HF spending their time on D-Star and using the Internet for "dx" ham
contacts. When I asked the President how many cw operators they had in the club his response
was "CW, that's a bad word. What is it." That says it all.
 

there was a HUGE number of CBers who "upgraded to a HAM ticket" in the '80s & '90s
- but with the explosion of mobiles, the need for a CB has diminished somewhat.

some say, that any future growth < youngsters > will be from the PC crowd, but that's rather doubtful, at best.

over here, the use of UHF type CB is more widespread than the regular HF type is.
- the UHF crowd are unlikely to be  "upgraded to a HAM ticket" - any time soon.

it was "skip" that attracted lots of HF CBers to be "upgraded to a HAM ticket".
- that attraction doesn't exist, any more .. ..



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 05, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Re: Hurricaine Harry  reply #26

I'm still a little confused on what frequency you are operating on: Lids more important the HIGHER they go 160/80m as opposed the Lower they go "DOWN in 10 meters"??


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N0IU on January 05, 2014, 09:21:33 AM
For the most part, some of these people only ever got a Novice class license - which was upgraded to Technician when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.  Or they held a tech plus license, which means that they passed the written portion of the exam but could not pass the code.  They were upgraded to General when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.

This is the reason why 65% of all licensed amateurs only has a Technician class license and why a majority of others only has a General Class license.

WTF???

Having a Tech Plus license means that they passed the written tests for Novice and Technician PLUS the 5 wpm code test. Why do you think they called it Tech "PLUS" ???

Other than Tech Plus and Technician being combined into one class as of April 15, 2000, no classes were automatically upgraded to a higher class with one exception. The only thing that went away was the 13wpm code test, but Technicians still need to take the General written test in order to upgrade unless they took their Technician test before March 21, 1987. And even then, the upgrade was not automatic. They still had to apply for the General license.

If Novices were automatically upgraded to Technician, how come there are still over 13,000 Novice Class license holders? And its the same for the Advanced Class. Even though the 20wpm code test also went away, they still need to take the Extra written to upgrade. Existing Novices and Advanced Class license holders can retain that class as long as they renew on time.

Do you just make this stuff up or what?



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: VA2PBJ on January 05, 2014, 09:40:50 AM
Doesn't HURRICAINE sound like a CB handle? Do you even have a license? You do make me want to go and get a license.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: AC5UP on January 05, 2014, 09:58:06 AM
26.7% of all quoted statistics are incorrect.

BTW:  I wouldn't get too agitated over a thread with a title like " HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS? ".    That was your first clue someone's playing one deuce short of a straight.............  :P


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N0IU on January 05, 2014, 11:39:51 AM
26.7% of all quoted statistics are incorrect.

And they also say that 5 out of 4 people don't understand fractions!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 05, 2014, 11:47:40 AM
Is it ZENKI?  ;D

Doesn't HURRICAINE sound like a CB handle? Do you even have a license? You do make me want to go and get a license.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: VA2PBJ on January 05, 2014, 11:49:11 AM
Doesn't HURRICAINE sound like a CB handle? Do you even have a license? You do make me want to go and get a license.

Opps, I have one... ;) I did mean a CB.... so unworthy!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: REMOVED_ACCOUNT_2015-01-09 on January 05, 2014, 11:49:38 AM
 ;)


26.7% of all quoted statistics are incorrect.

BTW:  I wouldn't get too agitated over a thread with a title like " HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS? ".    That was your first clue someone's playing one deuce short of a straight.............  :P


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: AC5UP on January 05, 2014, 12:06:18 PM
I know it takes a real wanker to mention this, but the spelling is " HURRICANE ".

Just Sayin'


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KG4YBH on January 05, 2014, 02:42:48 PM
Re: KG4YBH

Keep your well deserved pride, stay out of that dark room and just laugh at the 99% of hams that think the Main Steam and Water Cycle is a 10 speed bike in a hot tub and a Reefer Flat is a crack house. Congrats on your General. JKA USNR/USMS Ret.

Now that's just funny :D  They probably think the boiler room is the bar downtown.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB1WSY on January 05, 2014, 03:29:52 PM
Re: KG4YBH

Keep your well deserved pride, stay out of that dark room and just laugh at the 99% of hams that think the Main Steam and Water Cycle is a 10 speed bike in a hot tub and a Reefer Flat is a crack house. Congrats on your General. JKA USNR/USMS Ret.

Now that's just funny :D  They probably think the boiler room is the bar downtown.

Innocent question from a well-meaning middle-aged ham. Can you translate? Interpretation is the first step to understanding.....

Thanks!!!!


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KG4YBH on January 05, 2014, 03:52:20 PM
Steam and water cycle has to do with steam plant and boiler operations. The reefer flat is where the refrigeration units are on a boat and the boiler room is the area in the engine room where the boilers are located that produce main propulsion and auxiliary steam.

73


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N9WW on January 07, 2014, 10:34:13 AM
The next time I hear someone give their "handle" instead of saying "the name here is", I'm going to puke...

73,
Jim N9WW


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: WB4TJH on January 07, 2014, 07:45:41 PM
"CB lids"????   In my 43 years as a licensed  amateur, there have ALWAYS been idiots/lids on the ham bands. So what else is new?


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W7WQ on January 08, 2014, 05:37:41 AM
Ten Four, good buddies.  Waving at ya...cmon back, my personal....your making the trip


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: WA4FOM on January 08, 2014, 06:39:09 AM

I suspect the simple fact is that there are many, many more of us on the ham bands now
than there were 30 years ago.  Since the available frequencies have not changed much in
size, that means more hams per Hz.  In turn, that means more lids per Hz, regardless of
their point of origin.  We can choose to put on our tin foil hats and believe that we have
been infected by the Lids From Twenty-Seven Megahertz, the ObamaCare Radicals, or
the Grays from Zeta Reticuli, but without evidence we have nothing more than something to
bitch about.  It could be nothing more insidious than the anonymity that radio affords
giving license (no pun intended) to those sad individuals with miserable, meaningless lives
to annoy the rest of us.

As for me, I choose to just ignore the Lids and do my best to serve as an example of
how to behave when the key is down.  And when they get really annoying, well, that's
the second function of the POWER switch on the rig.

Bob  WA4FOM


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1VT on January 08, 2014, 07:23:07 AM
I'm having lots of fun working DX--in 2013 I worked 225 countries on CW.  In the process, I pushed my CW DXCC total to 281/273!

My goal for 2014 is to get another CW DXCC endorsement sticker.

There are lots of neat stations I can work with 100 watts and CW, last evening I got a V5 on 30M and this morning I hooked up with W1AW/7 (Utah) on 160M!

Zack W1VT


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8AXW on January 08, 2014, 09:07:13 AM
CB lids haven't destroyed the ham bands!  If anything is destroying the ham bands it's the dumbing down of the exams and eliminating the normal interaction of hams and a potential ham.

The real lids are those guys, mostly on 80M phone, who use profanity, are ignorant and intolerant to anyone else except their little clique.  Those are the lids.  They are mostly old farts who have been licensed for decades.  These are the ones who are ruining the bands. 

I have to be very careful when tuning around when my grand-kids are present because of these lids.  My grand-kids are never offended when they hear "good buddy," "bring it back" and the rest of the CB jargon.

Most CB'rs and former CB'rs who get into ham radio have to go through a period where they un-learn some of their lingo and learn the typical ham procedure.  All do eventually and in the meantime it's prudent that we "old farts" show some consideration and understanding.

If you have any doubt about this, try to recall when you first got on the air and the stupid things you said or did.  Correcting them on the air isn't necessary or a good idea.  Leave them alone and they will learn for themselves.  I have watched this process for years.

Al - K8AXW



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W8GP on January 08, 2014, 01:13:39 PM
I'm proud to be a CB LID, started with CB in 1968 and got my HAM ticket in 1970. I have been enjoying all aspects of the hobby evey since.Sure, the dumbing down of the bands annoys me, but what are you going to do? I don't even listen to the riff-raff drivel anymore, I just call CQ a lot and usually find someone resonably intelligent to talk to.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KG4YBH on January 08, 2014, 02:00:05 PM
CB lids haven't destroyed the ham bands!  If anything is destroying the ham bands it's the dumbing down of the exams and eliminating the normal interaction of hams and a potential ham.

The real lids are those guys, mostly on 80M phone, who use profanity, are ignorant and intolerant to anyone else except their little clique.  Those are the lids.  They are mostly old farts who have been licensed for decades.  These are the ones who are ruining the bands. 

I have to be very careful when tuning around when my grand-kids are present because of these lids.  My grand-kids are never offended when they hear "good buddy," "bring it back" and the rest of the CB jargon.

Most CB'rs and former CB'rs who get into ham radio have to go through a period where they un-learn some of their lingo and learn the typical ham procedure.  All do eventually and in the meantime it's prudent that we "old farts" show some consideration and understanding.

If you have any doubt about this, try to recall when you first got on the air and the stupid things you said or did.  Correcting them on the air isn't necessary or a good idea.  Leave them alone and they will learn for themselves.  I have watched this process for years.

Al - K8AXW



So in one sentence you claim it is the stupid people like me who ruined the ham bands because I took the only test available to me. Then you tell everyone that it is the old farts that have been licensed for decades that are ruining the ham bands. I guess it is just everyone except you that is destroying YOUR HOBBY.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: HURRICAINE on January 08, 2014, 02:56:36 PM
I was listening to a phone and traffic net on 80 meters and when each member checked in, a bunch of guys all jumped in and said hi to each member.
When I threw out my call sign, the band went silent.
I started pounding my D-104 mic against the desk, I thought it wasn't working.
So I went back sarcastically and said - don't all say hi at once!
Two guys then said HI out of 2 dozen.....
It just goes to show about how ignorant those old guys are on 80 meters.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 08, 2014, 03:06:30 PM
Re: reply #48

Maybe they went silent after they heard your CALL and were waiting for a severe weather warning report.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W7ASA on January 08, 2014, 06:14:40 PM
HURRICAINE said:  "I started pounding my D-104 mic against the desk, I thought it wasn't working."

Hmmm,  I don't know what you do for a living, but considering your trouble-shooting methods, I can bet that you're not on the bomb squad; at least not for very long.

(http://stampede-entertainment.com/tremors3/explosion-l.jpg)


de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N4OI on January 08, 2014, 07:26:32 PM
No, but bad grammar is taking its toll on this thread…  ;D

73


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8AXW on January 08, 2014, 09:23:49 PM
YBH:  Let me spell it out for you since you seem to be having trouble with what I'm saying. 

We, or at least I am speaking about two subjects or two problems.  The first one is the quality of hams are now on the air.  They don't know nuttin about nuttin!  (That's for you 4OI  ;D )  This is verified by some of the questions and comments you read here on eHam.  I don't consider these guy "lids."  Just uneducated in electronics and ham radio in general compared to the hams of yesteryear.  They're very difficult to talk to because of their limited interest in the hobby.

The second part of my comments does address the "lid" subject.  These are the guys who are deliberately  ill mannered, use profanity and are simply ignorant to others.  They also include those who use poor operating practices because of the inflated feeling about themselves.  Of course this "lid" list goes on and on.

Apparently I didn't make myself clear on my initial comments.  I hope this clears it up for you.

Al - K8AXW



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB4QAA on January 09, 2014, 07:16:42 AM
I was listening to a phone and traffic net on 80 meters and when each member checked in, a bunch of guys all jumped in and said hi to each member.
When I threw out my call sign, the band went silent.
I started pounding my D-104 mic against the desk, I thought it wasn't working.
So I went back sarcastically and said - don't all say hi at once!
Two guys then said HI out of 2 dozen.....
It just goes to show about how ignorant those old guys are on 80 meters.
Ignorance on the part of old guys?  No.  It is your naivete in expecting to walk into a regular gathering and expect to be greeted by one and all as a long lost friend when they have never met you!

Want to make friends there?  Don't be a 'one time party crasher'.  Start showing up on a regular basis, be cheerful but not intrusive; contribute to discussions with out monopolizing.

Within a few days to a few weeks you will be known and accepted within the group.

It's not that 75m is hostile to 'outsiders'.  It's that 75m is a regional band, where folks meet like they do at the local diner to chat with friends.  You don't slide into a booth at the diner with people you don't know and expect to be included without introductions and developing relationships.  b.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8AXW on January 09, 2014, 08:33:58 AM
QAA: 
Quote
Ignorance on the part of old guys?  No.  It is your naivete in expecting to walk into a regular gathering and expect to be greeted by one and all as a long lost friend when they have never met you!

I feel you are partially correct here.  At one time it was the norm to be able to check into a group and be welcomed.  This was ham radio in it's purest form. If you wanted to get into a round table you were usually welcome. 

However, good operating practice is to try to join a group only when you feel that you have something to contribute to the conversation.  To do otherwise you run the risk of being considered an intruder.  And rightfully so.  This also applies to social gatherings of any kind.

This situation has been exacerbated in recent years by the prejudice of many toward "no-coders,"  those that are perceived not to have run the FCC gauntlet and even with callsigns that are not 1X2 or 1X3. 

Quote
Want to make friends there?  Don't be a 'one time party crasher'.  Start showing up on a regular basis, be cheerful but not intrusive; contribute to discussions with out monopolizing.

This has a great deal of truth and is good advice, however, most of the time "intruders" don't even get that far!  They are told in no uncertain terms to leave.... or are simply ignored. Or if you happen to be on "their" frequency you can expect to be told to "get the hell off" the frequency or quite often they will tune up and operate on top of you.

It is also reasonable to expect a certain group to gather as old friends and their group simply don't want anyone else in it. In which case a simple "this is a private gathering OM" would take care of it without anyone having their feathers ruffled.  The old W2OY response, "Go away, I don't talk to lids, kids, space cadets or K8's just isn't ham radio.  This is a variant of what you get when you try to get into one of these "old fart round-tables."

Bottom line, it isn't what it used to be and the way it's going isn't good.

Al - K8AXW


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W7WQ on January 09, 2014, 02:39:43 PM
OK. tell you what.  No calls but this is the second time I have heard someone bitch about "handles"  years ago....let's say 40 or so, we all said the handle is.....way before CB horse hockey came into being.  So go ahead and puke.  What makes ME want to puke is  "the personal here is"  or you're making a 20 here.  Get your shit straight before you start expounding your ignorance.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W7WQ on January 09, 2014, 02:44:35 PM
sort version.....sure as HELL hasn't helped.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8QV on January 10, 2014, 05:58:28 AM
 It should be, "HAVE CB lids destroyed the ham bands?" At least use proper English when berating other people.

The answer is NO. It was the FCC, licensing restructuring and EMCOMM that made amateur radio unattractive to normal people.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 10, 2014, 06:04:34 AM
Is there any Scientific Evidence out there that defines NORMAL people?


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8AXW on January 10, 2014, 08:30:50 AM
JKA:  Yes!  I am proof positive that I am normal!  I have papers from my psychiatrist that proves it.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 10, 2014, 10:14:44 AM
Re: K8AXW

Well you certainly have me beat, no papers here yet as I'm still being evaluated.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: NI8R on January 10, 2014, 05:28:51 PM
If you are wondering, I have never had cross words or a less than polite conversation operating CW on Any band. None of the cb'ers indentified themselves as such so I could not tell who the enemy was :) :)

Hang in and stay where you are with a group of your own peers or they will vote you off the island stranger.

Greg kc8iir


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K7KBN on January 10, 2014, 08:54:59 PM
It should be, "HAVE CB lids destroyed the ham bands?" At least use proper English when berating other people.

The answer is NO. It was the FCC, licensing restructuring and EMCOMM that made amateur radio unattractive to normal people.

I was about to say "Yes, they has."  But I like your answer better.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N4OI on January 11, 2014, 04:20:45 AM
26.7% of all quoted statistics are incorrect.

And they also say that 5 out of 4 people don't understand fractions!

58% of students graduate in the lower half of their class.   ;D

73


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: HURRICAINE on January 11, 2014, 05:47:08 AM
HURRICAINE said:  "I started pounding my D-104 mic against the desk, I thought it wasn't working."

Hmmm,  I don't know what you do for a living, but considering your trouble-shooting methods, I can bet that you're not on the bomb squad; at least not for very long.

(http://stampede-entertainment.com/tremors3/explosion-l.jpg)


de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._

It was supposed to be a joke Ray..  I do have two D-104 microphones, one for the Viking Valiant and the other for the Hammarlund HX 500.

Believe it or not - the microphone I prefer is a Turner +3 Super Side Kick.
I get excellent audio reports with it and the Kenwood TS 990...


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA0KDW on January 11, 2014, 07:17:01 AM
It is not ham radio that is to blame.

I think, that the dumbing down and the Japanese industry (when Sommerkampf, (or MeinKampf?) Kenwood, Yaesus  and Icom are supposed to be Japanese) that saw a growing market in the growing amount of dumbo people (including YOU reader)  is the reason.

Who,the heck is able to DESIGN and construct its own equipment as amateur, based on available literature and own intellectual capacity from scratch?

I was, I am 94 years old , I suppose, I can only estimate, and  I stop reading this kind of forums, because the contributors demonstrate stupidity, that they do not recognize by themselves, so that my remarks only induce aggressive comments,  and  that  is bad for enduring existance of myself, when I measure the increment in frequency of heath beats per minute of my own pumping organ, which demonstrated  obviously high reliability up to this moment.

I spent an hour on advising KB1WSY how to learn Morse code, He did nor even react. So by , dumbing down and by operating your Japanese appliances and be proud of that. Do your contests collect your worthless awards and be lucky with your life. Hope for prosperity for the next genaration, I assure of my expectation: your  hope will not be fulllfilled.

My US English not correct?  Answer in Dutch or any language  to declare  that. I will compare your proficiency in a foreign language with mine in ur language.

In history civilisations grow and decline,  Recognize your own decline, may be that will help you to delay it one generation; after that you(r country)  will be the low wage supply country of China.

Frans PA0KDW 73


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K9OJT on January 11, 2014, 08:40:42 AM
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests


;)



1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests
5. Bitching about 'No Coders' and the new breed of 'dumb' and 'unqualified' hams


Fixed it for ya'


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K8AXW on January 11, 2014, 09:21:22 AM
Quote
Well you certainly have me beat, no papers here yet as I'm still being evaluated.

The papers will be forthcoming when your psychiatrist learns that you cannot afford his/her services any longer.

 


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA0KDW on January 11, 2014, 09:38:43 AM


The papers will be forthcoming when your psychiatrist learns that you cannot afford his/her services any longer.

 

Come on Al, you have the age and the life experience to react much better that that.

Try to understand what other people mean to say, weight it and give your comment, but do not mark them sick in their mind when they propose something you don't like to hear or when you can't find arguments to oppose.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: NI8R on January 11, 2014, 12:27:51 PM
Frans, I think it went right over there heads.

Frans, America is in a culture change. You have read the future to them.
I see it every day. Wage and standard of living is declining in the USA at a fast pace.
Folks are not willing to diciplane themselves to learn code ,a job skill or grammar.
Working is not a priority.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go back to work trying to figure out how to make a living in a
Socialist economy transitioning to communism.

Kc8iir


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB1WSY on January 11, 2014, 01:02:09 PM
I spent an hour on advising KB1WSY how to learn Morse code, He did nor even react.

Frans, is that a typo? You and I had a fairly lengthy exchange of views on this subject, over in the "My Morse Code Learning Campaign" thread. The exchange started on this page: http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,93658.90.html (http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,93658.90.html).

If there's something I did to give you the impression I didn't appreciate your posts, I will be the first to apologize.

Who,the heck is able to DESIGN and construct its own equipment as amateur, based on available literature and own intellectual capacity from scratch?

I have no professional background in electronics, but my entire station (including existing and future equipment) is home-built (and not from a kit). Admittedly, I followed some vintage ARRL designs from the 1960s: I did not design my receiver myself. However, once I had built it, I made substantial alterations to improve performance, with a lot of help from Elmers on eHam. My test equipment is once-broken vintage gear that I fixed and restored myself.

I described the construction of my receiver here: http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,90273.0.html (http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,90273.0.html).

Next project: a two-tube crystal-controlled MOPA "Novice" transmitter, also an ARRL design, also built from scratch, at which point I can finally Get On The Air. After which I have many other projects planned: a better receiver, a more powerful transmitter, a VFO ... the list (and the junkbox) gets more voluminous by the day.

I'm one of those crazy hams who's really only interested in CW and who doesn't find the hobby interesting unless he builds all of his own gear. And I'm not unique. My ultimate aim, is, indeed, to design and build an entire station myself (once I have enough experience in electronics) and there are people over in the Homebrew forum who have done exactly that, including one of my Elmers, N2EY. I've only had my license for two years and I still have a lot to learn.

By the way I don't really agree with your USA-bashing comments. I'm a foreigner living in America, so I do feel that I have some perspective on this. I get tired of the incessant claims that society has been "dumbed down." That's certainly not the impression I got while putting two daughters through High School here, and they are now in American universities, which are consistently rated among the top in the world. In many ways, "it depends." It's a vast and varied country and generalizations often don't capture the reality.

My best wishes and 73,

Martin/KB1WSY


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: WS3N on January 11, 2014, 06:44:55 PM
Folks are not willing to diciplane themselves to learn code ,a job skill or grammar.
(emphasis added)

You forgot to mention that many people find spelling to be a challenge. Some of them even criticize others without knowing how foolish they look. Oh well, as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N0IU on January 11, 2014, 08:28:22 PM
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests


;)



1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests
5. Bitching about 'No Coders' and the new breed of 'dumb' and 'unqualified' hams


Fixed it for ya'

1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Contests
4. Complaining about contests
5. Complaining about how the bands are dead when there are no contests
6. Bitching about 'No Coders' and the new breed of 'dumb' and 'unqualified' hams

Fixed it for ya'


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA0KDW on January 13, 2014, 02:36:09 AM
JKA:  Yes!  I am proof positive that I am normal!  I have papers from my psychiatrist that proves it.

I don't need that kind of papers, because the voices in my head say that I am quite normal.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K2CPO on January 14, 2014, 01:14:58 AM
I got my Technician license in July 2013 at 98%. Got my General license in October 2013 at 96%. Got my Extra license in December 2013 at 96%. I'm now learning CW. Why? Because it's tradition. Because it's something I want to know and be good at. Because I find it interesting, and I'm intrigued by it.

I've yet to meet (on the air) a mean and nasty 'ol former CB'er who's wearing a dirty under-shirt, picking his nose with one hand, and fondling his mike with the other while shouting obscenities over the air-waves with an ice-chest full of cheap beer on the floor of his shack.

As for myself, I'm quite pleasant, and also a good listener. I follow the band-plan, and if I make a mistake, I'll apologize for that, and will learn from it.

So I'm a *new* ham operator with an Extra license, learning CW. I'm also female and like a beer now and again. Make mine a Guinness Stout. Red wine is nice, too.

I'm not into contesting. I don't want anyone to "work" me. That makes my skin crawl, really, to think that someone might want to "work" me. I'd much rather have a very nice, pleasant QSO with pretty much anyone out there, whether they be in the US, or some far away and exotic place.

Pile-ups? I'll just keep tuning away from them. It's not for me. I'd rather engage in ARES nets and the like. Have a real conversation with another human being anywhere on this planet, be they in the next town, county, state, or across the nation, or even on another continent. I'm not keeping score. Just having a good time, that's all.

So have LIDs screwed things up? Not that I can tell. Dunno! Ask me in a year or two.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB1WSY on January 14, 2014, 05:24:25 AM
I got my Technician license in July 2013 at 98%. Got my General license in October 2013 at 96%. Got my Extra license in December 2013 at 96%. I'm now learning CW. Why? Because it's tradition. Because it's something I want to know and be good at. Because I find it interesting, and I'm intrigued by it.

Funny, the VEs never told me my scores, but you're not the first ham who's quoted their own results, so I think it must be something that varies between one test site and another. I took the Tech and Gen tests in one sitting and after grading my paper, I heard one VE say to another, in a rather loud sotto voce, "someone in this room has a copy of the answer sheet." So I must have done OK. Learning Morse now; and that's much harder than the Tech/General tests were. I'll be gearing up for the Extra soon, and that, too, looks like it will be much easier than learning Morse.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: PA0KDW on January 14, 2014, 06:02:32 AM
KB1WSY nice message.

I remember 70 years ago female operators were very scarse, so the guys were just like bees smelling honey to "work" them.
With "working" just is meant that you give RST mention the report  name es QTH and say good bye, with traditionally 88 which I didn't do ever, I always used 73.

And yes I always used CW. that was the way to establish far away contacts that were nearly impossible to get in another way and certainly not for free, important with a sparse budget. Transmitters were not for sale so we made our own equipment with radio parts. A 6L6 tube with a Xtal was enough to "work" the world.

Nowadays they need a "kit" in order to construct something. Look at a present concurrent thread here where they are looking for a kit with a tube. really amazing.

That is the reason that I admit: "CB Lids have destroyed the ham bands" Not that they know, they are just the tools in the hands of Japanese appliance  and kit manufacturers, to improve their income. They lobby in order to dumb down the requirements.

   Yes we, guys, have to get used to girls on motor bikes due to electric starter and to girls in ham radio due to dumbing down requirements, scratching code requirements,   and selling Japanese appliances and kits. A kit is like a frozen magnetron meal bought from your local grocery, warming it up to a complete meal has nothing to do whatever with cooking, so a kit not with  designing and building your own equipment.

So what buying an appliance, when with your computer, you can write and make contacts on this web site. You even meet me, and you can add Holland  on your dx  website based dx-honorlist.

Most of the guys here, I estimate over 90%, are proud they accomplished a simple examination.  They know nothing about designing your own equipment from available parts in a junk box.

Most of the CW guys learned the Morse code  compulsory because they signed for the service. Otherwise they should not have finished the task they planned to do. You will find hardly somebody that just thought like you AND DID IT ALSO. (LCWO learns that 95% of starters stop somewhere, but very fast after learning 6 or 8 characters)

BTW: look on the Internet for www.lcwo.net it had also a forum to contact other participants. Other good off line programs:
Just learn Morse Code (LB3KB) and finally G4FON look on google to download them.

73 Frans


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: NO2A on January 14, 2014, 11:17:19 AM
If anything is "destroying" the bands,it`s this attitude of putting the hobby down. NOW MY RANT! GET ON THE BANDS AND HAVE A QSO BE IT SSB/CW/AM/RTTY/DIGITAL WHATEVER,AND STOP SAYING THE HOBBY IS DEAD! IF YOU DON`T LIKE HAM RADIO THEN GET OUT OF IT. STOP PUTTING DOWN PEOPLE WHO DO LIKE IT. OR I`M GONNA REACH THROUGH YOUR RADIO AND SMACK YOU! -Mike.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W1JKA on January 14, 2014, 12:24:58 PM
Re: NO2A

OUCH, that hurt but well deserved. ;)


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB1WSY on January 14, 2014, 12:51:17 PM
I love ham radio. There's only one thing better in the world. I feel that way even though I'm not even on the air yet!

PA0KDW makes some good points, but coming back to the hobby after a 40-year gap, I notice far more similarities than differences.

Concerning the building of equipment. "Back then," if you could scrounge together the components from old TVs or whatever (rather than buying them from a store), you could actually build your own station for less money than the "equivalent" commercial gear and learn a lot while building. Nowadays, the economic equation is completely different. Homebrewing "equivalent" equipment to even the cheapest commercial gear is a real challenge, and almost always more expensive than buying commercial equipment. Which is why you see many homebrewers concentrating on the fun, relatively simple stuff like small QRP gear. Or, building accessories and antennas rather then entire rigs.

Each ham has his/her different motivations for getting into the hobby. My "angle" is building vintage ARRL designs from the 1950s/60s ... to each his thing.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KK4MRN on January 14, 2014, 01:44:29 PM
I totally agree with Martin here.   I have been sourcing parts to build my QRP radios, and the parts are expensive.  It is so much easier just to buy a kit or an "appliance" as some old hams like to call commercial gear.   I think some of these old hams forget (no offense Martin! hi hi) that ham radio is a hobby -- something to spend your time and money to have fun - learn something along the way - and make some friends too.   When I find the people annoy me, I just turn the radio off.  I'm hear to have fun.    I've actually bought kits just to get the parts, but then I build it the way I want to build on my own board.  I don't use their pcboards they create.  I'm not at the level yet to home brew (design) my own equipment because I do not know enough about radio electronics.  I am learning still, and I do want to get to the point one day.  Yet, the only way you can gain experience for home brewing (designing) is to actually build radios.   Plus, I am learning CW too.  So, this goes well with me building my first transmitter since a CW transmitter is simpler than SSB.   I was listening to CW the other night and got so excited that I decided to plug my key in on 10 meters and pound my call sign.  Got no replies - that's OK.  I scratched my itch.  Maybe one day someone will reply.



Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 14, 2014, 03:56:38 PM
I got my Technician license in July 2013 at 98%. Got my General license in October 2013 at 96%.

That can't possibly be correct.


73
K4NL Sid


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: AA4HA on January 14, 2014, 05:03:53 PM
I got my Technician license in July 2013 at 98%. Got my General license in October 2013 at 96%.

That can't possibly be correct.


73
K4NL Sid
35 question test;
1 wrong       97.1%
2 wrong       94.3%
3 wrong       91.4%

Extra points for spelling your name right.  :D

Like the cologne from the movie "Ron Burgundy, Anchorman" "60% of the time it works every time".


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W4KYR on January 14, 2014, 05:18:57 PM
When I took my written tests, they would not tell me how many I got right or wrong. They did tell me how many I missed on the morse code part however. But this was back in the early 90's.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 14, 2014, 05:41:48 PM
When I took my written tests, they would not tell me how many I got right or wrong. They did tell me how many I missed on the morse code part however. But this was back in the early 90's.

According to the VE manual, "The VEs must inform the examinee of their grade (pass or fail, and offer his or her score {e.g., 26 out of 35}) upon completion of the grading."


73
K4NL Sid


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W4KVW on January 17, 2014, 07:07:58 PM
I started in CB radio in 1965 at the age of 5 & Ham radio in 1994 & I still use BOTH but I don't have a Handle on Ham Radio just on the CB radio.I have managed to get most of my local friends into Ham Radio that I have spoken with for years on the CB & I'm giving another one a Technician Class study guide tomorrow so he can also join us.many of us still enjoy the CB band & when the language gets bad we just come back to a local repeater or get on 10 meters so we can talk locally.I know more bad Hams that should not be on any band than I do CB operators but when they get started I spin the VFO or change the band so they are not an issue! Any hobby has it's bad apples so you decide how to enjoy the hobby & the morons will continue being morons with or without you. {:>)   ;D   :D   ;)

Clayton
W4KVW


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: W4KYR on January 18, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
When I took my written tests, they would not tell me how many I got right or wrong. They did tell me how many I missed on the morse code part however. But this was back in the early 90's.

According to the VE manual, "The VEs must inform the examinee of their grade (pass or fail, and offer his or her score {e.g., 26 out of 35}) upon completion of the grading."


73
K4NL Sid

For the written tests, we were told if we passed or failed and that was it.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 18, 2014, 03:10:37 PM
When I took my written tests, they would not tell me how many I got right or wrong. They did tell me how many I missed on the morse code part however. But this was back in the early 90's.

According to the VE manual, "The VEs must inform the examinee of their grade (pass or fail, and offer his or her score {e.g., 26 out of 35}) upon completion of the grading."


For the written tests, we were told if we passed or failed and that was it.

I'm telling you what the ARRL VE manual says about it.  It could be that the rules have changed, or that they didn't follow the rules.


73
K4NL Sid


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: K7KBN on January 18, 2014, 05:36:24 PM
Each of the several VECs (ARRL VEC, NCVEC, W5YI VEC, W4VEC, etc) can make up their own rules regarding such things as disclosing scores.  The VECs are directly answerable to the FCC, not the ARRL.


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 18, 2014, 07:04:36 PM
Each of the several VECs (ARRL VEC, NCVEC, W5YI VEC, W4VEC, etc) can make up their own rules regarding such things as disclosing scores.  The VECs are directly answerable to the FCC, not the ARRL.

I am aware of that.  I have pointed out what the ARRL VE manual says about it.  If you know that one of the other VECs have a different rule regarding this, it would perhaps be interesting to those who do their testing with other VECs.  Knowing that the rules can be different is not all that interesting.  Not to me, at least.

(One reason I think the rules may be interesting to others is that if I had known the rules at the time I took the tests, I could have spent 40-45 minutes less time in a rather hot room and still passed the same tests.)


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 18, 2014, 09:43:57 PM
Each of the several VECs (ARRL VEC, NCVEC, W5YI VEC, W4VEC, etc) can make up their own rules regarding such things as disclosing scores.  The VECs are directly answerable to the FCC, not the ARRL.

Also, out of the four entities you list only three are VECs.  Two of them have rules that state that the score should be disclosed, the third one haven't posted their rules on the web.

The FCC rules also state that the score should be disclosed, at least when a candidate fails.

So what possible reason could a VE team have for not letting a candidate know his/her score ?  They should all do that, always.


73
K4NL Sid


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: KB1WSY on January 19, 2014, 12:10:08 AM
So what possible reason could a VE team have for not letting a candidate know his/her score ?  They should all do that, always.

I guess it's possible they would have told me if I'd asked. I was unfamiliar with what the score-disclosure rules might be when I took the test, so I assumed that the non-disclosure at my test site was normal. Personally I would have found it useful to know my score. I took the Tech and Gen in one sitting, and they encouraged me to then try the Extra. But I hadn't studied for the Extra at all, so it would have been a "guessing game" and I'm someone who likes to study properly, not just memorize answers.

I do remember that they gave me a form stating that I'd passed, but it didn't have my score on it. To me it would make sense if disclosing the score, in writing, were always required and why not on that form? That's what happened when I took the British test decades ago, the score was clearly stated on the "pass certificate" that I received in the mail (in those days they were essay questions, including drawing simple circuit diagrams, and you had to wait several weeks while the papers were graded).

Next time, I'll go to a different test site in hopes that they might have a different policy on the scores. There are several choices in my area. I'm going for my Extra soon.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: LB3KB on January 19, 2014, 12:19:46 AM
They will only tell you.  It's not on the form, and the form has no field for it.

Also, they will only tell you how many you got right, so you won't know what you missed unless you remember it.  (This is in the FCC rules, so they can't tell you what you missed even if they want to.)


73
K4NL Sid


Title: RE: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?
Post by: N4MPM on February 08, 2014, 06:19:10 AM
The CW portion of 10 meters has been severely bent by the Free & Associated order of Chicken Banders  ( F&ACB)
:(