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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: KE6TDP on March 16, 2014, 11:24:20 AM



Title: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on March 16, 2014, 11:24:20 AM
The April 2014 edition of QST carried the story "Windows XP - Goodby, Old Friend" by Mike Carper (WA9PIE), a very timely article. But it also raised the question, why stick with MS Windows?  From the hobby perspective, Linux would be a superior solution. In fact the April edition of QST carried a companion article "A Tiny Python Panadapter", which is Linux based. I would encourage the amateur radio community to put MS Windows aside in favour of Linux.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 16, 2014, 03:38:13 PM
I've used Linux in the past, but I doubt any of the ham radio programs I'm using now have Linux versions, so that pretty much kills it for me.  :-\


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N7ZAL on March 16, 2014, 06:34:41 PM
I've tried it but many of the programs I use aren't available in Linux.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5TED on March 16, 2014, 07:47:28 PM


I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VK6IS on March 17, 2014, 06:19:26 AM
some M$ programs work using WINE.

- which has a good list of programs, abet mainly games, but also other stuff, as well.

the commercial version is Crossover:
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/windowsmac/

- you can search for your program, in their search bar, to see if their extensive list has it.
& then test to see how well it runs. ..
- they are based in St. Paul, Minnesota.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on March 17, 2014, 06:21:01 AM
There are Windows emulator programs made for the Linux environment that will support a good deal of the software written just for Windows, one version of which is WINE. 

A suggestion could be made that those could be looked into.  They do work most of the time.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 17, 2014, 06:36:05 AM
I run lots of Windows software under WINE with no problems.

There are Windows programs that won't. N1MM logger comes to mind. It requires some sort of Windows-only database.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: AG6WT on March 17, 2014, 06:37:30 AM


I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.


They have. Popular Linux distributions like Ubuntu work right out of the box on most PCs and include commercial grade office suites like Libre Office (a MS Office clone), Adobe Reader, Firefox and Chrome, as well as plenty of games. I started using Linux back in the early '90s and back then you often had to hack the kernel to get hardware to work right and there were very, very few GUI apps that worked well. Even Netscape Navigator didn't work without some serious tweaking. Linux has come a long way.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WA9PIE on March 17, 2014, 10:12:43 AM
All,

Thanks for reading the article. I've received a number of emails from folks who have said that I didn't dedicate much time in the article to "considering Linux as an alternative."  (Same could be said for Mac OS X, but there's only so much you can do in two pages.)

Keep in mind, the article wasn't written to advocate for Linux… or Windows 8… or Mac OS X… Chrome (on a Chromebook)… or anything like that.

The article was written to (a) remind folks that support for XP is ending and (b) help them understand the implications of extending their use of XP.

I may follow with an article that looks at other OS choices more closely, but would likely give Linux as much  attention as Mac OS X… Windows 7/8… and so on.

Mike, WA9PIE


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE7TMA on March 17, 2014, 03:47:47 PM
Many of you complain that Linux does not support the programs you currently use.  Let's look at this claim in three parts.

Firstly, Linux has a different set of programs that may look and work a bit differently, but support most of the activities that you do with your Windows software.  Logging, rig control, I/Q panadapter, SDR, and so forth are all well supported with mature programs that have existed (for some packages) for up to two decades.  Configuration is a bit different but device interfaces are generally more reliable with Linux.

Secondly, Linux supports a software package called Wine.  Wine allows you to run your Windows programs in Linux with a very minimal one-time setup procedure that looks and works identically to the Windows installer itself.  It is compatible with the vast majority of Windows software at this point.

Thirdly, Linux supports several virtualization packages like VirtualBox or VMWare.  These programs essentially create a PC inside your PC, which takes advantage of the hardware virtualization support of most relatively current Intel processors to run any OS you'd like at full speed, in a window.  These virtualization packages also support checkpointing your OS's virtualized drives, so that you can take a snapshot of the entire virtual computer and roll back any changes whenever you wish.  If you get a virus, or your virtual hard drive is erased somehow, you can roll back any changes with a single click.

Of course, you can always stay on the endless Windows upgrade treadmill, where your software will likely quit working anyway, but the beauty of Linux is that security patches are available for most system components indefinitely, and if they are not, you have the source code so you can always do it yourself or hire somebody to patch it.

There's a Linux distribution that you can burn to a CD and run directly off your CD-ROM drive without installing to your hard drive called Andy's Ham Radio Linux, that is custom tailored to ham radio and includes tons of useful nice amateur radio related software installed by default.  Before you just write off Linux because it doesn't support a particular software package that you happen to enjoy, give it a fair shake.  It's a more stable and long-term supported OS than Microsoft makes.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on March 17, 2014, 03:51:06 PM
I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.
That's the "rub". Instead of developing MS Windows based software, develop Linux based software. An unfortunate aspect with Linux development has been that MS Windows is pretty much universal, everyone has it.  Hopefully, the Linux market share will grow.

PS: Synaptic Package Manager has an "Amateur Radio" category. 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE7TMA on March 17, 2014, 03:54:59 PM
I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.
That's the "rub". Instead of developing MS Windows based software, develop Linux based software. An unfortunate aspect with Linux development has been that MS Windows is pretty much universal, everyone has it.  Hopefully, the Linux market share will grow.

I think that many Linux users like Linux more or less the way it is.  There is no amount of Windows-ification that can be done to please the fussiest Windows users so they will always have some excuse or another.  At this point, though, driver support is better than Windows for most devices, setup is extremely simple and excepting bizarre hardware totally automated, and the GUIs can be made to mimic Windows or even the Macintosh so closely that people would feel right at home after a day or so.

It's not Linux's loss when people fail to give it a fair shake - it's the user's loss.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on March 17, 2014, 04:00:44 PM
It's not Linux's loss when people fail to give it a fair shake - it's the user's loss.(emphasis added)
Excellent point.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE7TMA on March 17, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
I run lots of Windows software under WINE with no problems.

There are Windows programs that won't. N1MM logger comes to mind. It requires some sort of Windows-only database.

It's possible that one might install this Windows-only database software in WINE before one installs N1MM.  If you file a bug report with the WINE developers they might just hop right to it and figure out the issue - they take pride in their software and are very responsive to bug reports and feature requests.  Good luck.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 17, 2014, 04:57:17 PM
Guys -

I've used Ubuntu Linux in the past and it worked OK - 'cept when it came to getting drivers for obscure hardware (or even non-obscure hardware  :-\)

See, that's the rub. It ain't just running windows programs in a virtualbox or whatever - it's the drivers for stuff you have hanging off the PC like radio programming ports or DVB SDR dongles and the like.

Linux is not well supported for a lot of obscure drivers and I just ain't gonna bust my a** getting it to work with these things.  :)


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5TED on March 17, 2014, 06:03:16 PM
Many of you complain that Linux does not support the programs you currently use.  Let's look at this claim in three parts.

Firstly, Linux has a different set of programs that may look and work a bit differently, but support most of the activities that you do with your Windows software.  Logging, rig control, I/Q panadapter, SDR, and so forth are all well supported with mature programs that have existed (for some packages) for up to two decades.  Configuration is a bit different but device interfaces are generally more reliable with Linux.

Secondly, Linux supports a software package called Wine.  Wine allows you to run your Windows programs in Linux with a very minimal one-time setup procedure that looks and works identically to the Windows installer itself.  It is compatible with the vast majority of Windows software at this point.

Thirdly, Linux supports several virtualization packages like VirtualBox or VMWare.  These programs essentially create a PC inside your PC, which takes advantage of the hardware virtualization support of most relatively current Intel processors to run any OS you'd like at full speed, in a window.  These virtualization packages also support checkpointing your OS's virtualized drives, so that you can take a snapshot of the entire virtual computer and roll back any changes whenever you wish.  If you get a virus, or your virtual hard drive is erased somehow, you can roll back any changes with a single click.

Of course, you can always stay on the endless Windows upgrade treadmill, where your software will likely quit working anyway, but the beauty of Linux is that security patches are available for most system components indefinitely, and if they are not, you have the source code so you can always do it yourself or hire somebody to patch it.

There's a Linux distribution that you can burn to a CD and run directly off your CD-ROM drive without installing to your hard drive called Andy's Ham Radio Linux, that is custom tailored to ham radio and includes tons of useful nice amateur radio related software installed by default.  Before you just write off Linux because it doesn't support a particular software package that you happen to enjoy, give it a fair shake.  It's a more stable and long-term supported OS than Microsoft makes.

My Windows software hasn't "quit working" yet. Examples are MMSSTV, the DXLabs suite, HRD, and other really old stuff that continue to live on from XP thru Win8.1

Why would I want to run Wine when I can run Win?

I wrote off Linux for my shack desktop years ago when it became apparent it is a work in progress,though stable, but consistently painful to implement, always requiring some level of rationalization and complacency.

Linux is great for web servers and some appliances in my shack. It's not a primary OS for the gamut of applications I use most often.

More power to the experimenters and fiddlers who might eventually make Linux the go to ham shack OS.

"At this point, though, driver support is better than Windows for most devices"

Which devices? All my sound cards, digi interfaces and CAT capable rigs run fine on Windows.

I keep Puppy with FLDigi in my toolbox just in case....


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: AA6YQ on March 17, 2014, 06:22:09 PM
Hopefully, the Linux market share will grow.

Hope is not a strategy.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WA9PIE on March 17, 2014, 08:39:35 PM
For those who have suggested that VirtualBox or VMWare is a solution to the compatibility problems with software running on Linux... I'm puzzled...

What's the point of running Linux as the base operating system... only to install a fully licensed copy of Windows in a virtual machine so you can run the software that would have run just fine on the Windows (physical) machine in the first place?

I mean... are the Linux fans those who are tired of paying Microsoft for OS upgrades and want to get away from owning and running a Windows OS?

Puzzled.

I'm thinking I may run Windows 7 as a physical machine... with a Linux VM... running a Mac OS X VirutalBox inside it... with a Windows 8 VM inside that... and so on.  Gosh that's a lot of complexity.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4KYR on March 18, 2014, 03:02:09 AM
There are a number of ham radio and Linux resources

 KB1OIQ - Andy's Ham Radio Linux
Ubuntu Linux remastered for Amateur Radio users
http://sourceforge.net/projects/kb1oiq-andysham/


Ham radio programs for linux platform
(Featuring 107 resources)
http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Software/Linux/


Amateur Radio Guide
A guide for users of Fedora amateur radio software
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Amateur_Radio_Guide/index.html


Linux In The Ham Shack Podcast!
http://lhspodcast.info/about/
http://lhspodcast.info/category/podcast-mp3/feed/


KF8GR Linux Ham Software Links
http://www.qsl.net/kf8gr/


Hamux - Ham Radio Packages for CentOS Linux
http://distro.ibiblio.org/hamux/


Distrowatch Top 100 Linux Distributions and lists newest releases
http://distrowatch.com/


Type  "ham radio linux" in the search box at Youtube



Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: NA4IT on March 18, 2014, 04:17:52 AM
If you are bound and determined to run Win XP, then consider Puppy Linux in a Windows folder for Internet use. Operates as a dual boot system, but instead of requiring a hard drive, it runs in a folder on your existing drive. It does not run inside Windows, because Windoze isn't booted.

See http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm#winEXE (http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm#winEXE)


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W1JKA on March 18, 2014, 04:34:41 AM
  Another non computer geek question: In lieu of using a burnable disc it was previously mentioned that a memory stick may possibly be used, if so, once Linux is down loaded into the computer then transferred to the memory stick does this take place of the disc  "burning" so you can directly suck back off the memory stick to replace the XP OS? If so,  is there any special type memory stick to be used? Thanks


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KC9YTJ on March 18, 2014, 05:21:04 AM
I have to say that I don't entirely understand the unwillingness of Windows users to simply switch to Windows 7.  Most programs written for XP will run under Windows 7, either in compatibility mode or in Windows XP Mode (which is simply a virtual XP machine running behind the scenes, but accessible from Windows 7).  Admittedly Windows XP Mode probably will no longer be supported either after the April cutoff.  And equally admittedly, it's possible that {insert name of favorite ham program here} won't run properly even under those workarounds.

That said, it sounds to me like the real problem is an unwillingness on the part of developers to fully support Windows 7 and later (if what I'm reading is correct).  I understand that small developers with legacy code may not have the scratch to upgrade to a modern version of the Microsoft development tools -- I still use Visual Studio 6 myself because I support some in-house apps that aren't worth the time and trouble to update to .NET, but then, the company I work for doesn't sell those apps to anybody, either :)  

But given that Microsoft has extended the cutoff for XP well past any reasonable expectation, the question today should not be "why aren't people upgrading to Windows 7" but rather, why haven't legacy developers not found a way to upgrade their products to modern standards so that people can upgrade to Windows 7?

The "blame Microsoft" game can only be run so long before fingers have to point to 3rd party developers who aren't keeping up with the times.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W1JKA on March 18, 2014, 05:39:34 AM
Re: KC9YTJ  reply #21

 " Unwillingness of Windows users to switch to Windows 7 ": MY top two excuses, 1) Already have a Windows 7 laptop. 2) Own two old IBM T-60s(XP) given to me for use in workshop and ham shack and don't use any ham related programs, guess you could call me a cheap cut of Ham along with the fact I'm a native Mainer whose creed is to use up, fix and repair, make do and use it again.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 18, 2014, 06:20:32 AM
The "blame Microsoft" game can only be run so long before fingers have to point to 3rd party developers w ho aren't keeping up with the times.

There's some truth to that. That's exactly why I won't be upgrading my XP office PC. It has a four-250GB-drive RAID 1/0 array, and there are no drivers available for my HighPoint HPT374 RocketRaid RAID controller card for Windows 7.

(Or Linux, for that matter. HighPoint is on my never-buy-again list.)

All computers here except that one either run Windows 7 or some flavor of Linux.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on March 18, 2014, 07:00:13 AM
I have to say that I don't entirely understand the unwillingness of Windows users to simply switch to Windows 7....

If you've gotten into Win 7 to any extent, you would find that the drivers for peripherals from older Windows flavors have been superseded by drivers packed along with Win7--generic drivers that do NOT provide the functionality that the OEM drivers do.  

Quote
...That said, it sounds to me like the real problem is an unwillingness on the part of developers to fully support Windows 7 and later (if what I'm reading is correct).  I understand that small developers with legacy code may not have the scratch to upgrade to a modern version of the Microsoft development tools...

That's but a small part of it.  The Win7 coding is more proprietary than ever, especially for the newer parts and applications.  If you don't have the 'scratch' you can't get that--and are effectively barred from doing such things.  And as far as Win8--well, just don't get me started on that one!

Quote

...But given that Microsoft has extended the cutoff for XP well past any reasonable expectation, the question today should not be "why aren't people upgrading to Windows 7" but rather, why haven't legacy developers not found a way to upgrade their products to modern standards so that people can upgrade to Windows 7?

The "blame Microsoft" game can only be run so long before fingers have to point to 3rd party developers who aren't keeping up with the times.

More and more the 'third party' developers are getting cut by Microsoft--to the bone and beyond, and therefore out of the game.  How are you supposed to make your software work when Microsoft simply will not let you because of their insistence in keeping critical parts of the coding for that OS to themselves?

Heulett Packard printer drivers and software accessories won't even work with Win7--you absolutely have to use the Microsoft generic drivers--and you lose most of the printers built in functionality when you do.  Is it any wonder why people don't like Win7--or simply prefer WinXP???


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4PC on March 18, 2014, 07:05:15 AM
Starting with Unix in 1985 and continuing with Linux...  it's always been trying to keep up with Microsoft.

Command line vs command line... 

(Rod Serling voice) Submitted for Your Approval ( From 1985)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7P16mYDIJw

 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE7TMA on March 18, 2014, 04:12:29 PM
For those who have suggested that VirtualBox or VMWare is a solution to the compatibility problems with software running on Linux... I'm puzzled...

What's the point of running Linux as the base operating system... only to install a fully licensed copy of Windows in a virtual machine so you can run the software that would have run just fine on the Windows (physical) machine in the first place?

Partly because you can click a button and take a snapshot of the VM once you have it set up to your liking, in case anything goes wrong.  Partly because your main OS (if it is Linux) won't hit the point at which you are denied patches.  Even if your distribution stops supporting an old version, there is usually a painless way to upgrade.  If not, you can always swap in the newest kernel, libraries, and software yourself.

No need to invent fanciful excuses and scenarios.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE7TMA on March 18, 2014, 04:17:06 PM
Many of you complain that Linux does not support the programs you currently use.  Let's look at this claim in three parts.

Firstly, Linux has a different set of programs that may look and work a bit differently, but support most of the activities that you do with your Windows software.  Logging, rig control, I/Q panadapter, SDR, and so forth are all well supported with mature programs that have existed (for some packages) for up to two decades.  Configuration is a bit different but device interfaces are generally more reliable with Linux.

Secondly, Linux supports a software package called Wine.  Wine allows you to run your Windows programs in Linux with a very minimal one-time setup procedure that looks and works identically to the Windows installer itself.  It is compatible with the vast majority of Windows software at this point.

Thirdly, Linux supports several virtualization packages like VirtualBox or VMWare.  These programs essentially create a PC inside your PC, which takes advantage of the hardware virtualization support of most relatively current Intel processors to run any OS you'd like at full speed, in a window.  These virtualization packages also support checkpointing your OS's virtualized drives, so that you can take a snapshot of the entire virtual computer and roll back any changes whenever you wish.  If you get a virus, or your virtual hard drive is erased somehow, you can roll back any changes with a single click.

Of course, you can always stay on the endless Windows upgrade treadmill, where your software will likely quit working anyway, but the beauty of Linux is that security patches are available for most system components indefinitely, and if they are not, you have the source code so you can always do it yourself or hire somebody to patch it.

There's a Linux distribution that you can burn to a CD and run directly off your CD-ROM drive without installing to your hard drive called Andy's Ham Radio Linux, that is custom tailored to ham radio and includes tons of useful nice amateur radio related software installed by default.  Before you just write off Linux because it doesn't support a particular software package that you happen to enjoy, give it a fair shake.  It's a more stable and long-term supported OS than Microsoft makes.

My Windows software hasn't "quit working" yet. Examples are MMSSTV, the DXLabs suite, HRD, and other really old stuff that continue to live on from XP thru Win8.1

Why would I want to run Wine when I can run Win?

I wrote off Linux for my shack desktop years ago when it became apparent it is a work in progress,though stable, but consistently painful to implement, always requiring some level of rationalization and complacency.

Linux is great for web servers and some appliances in my shack. It's not a primary OS for the gamut of applications I use most often.

More power to the experimenters and fiddlers who might eventually make Linux the go to ham shack OS.

"At this point, though, driver support is better than Windows for most devices"

Which devices? All my sound cards, digi interfaces and CAT capable rigs run fine on Windows.

I keep Puppy with FLDigi in my toolbox just in case....

While your software may be supported well under Windows 8, there have been many issues with older software not working with Windows 8 properly.  Also, while you may be lucky in your choice of hardware and drivers may be available for Windows 8, many pieces of perfectly functional hardware are no longer supported by the manufacturer and drivers are not available.

It's good that your setup works for you, but others may not be able to upgrade to Windows 8 without buying new hardware or software simply to get them back to where they are today with Windows XP.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VK6IS on March 18, 2014, 11:33:59 PM
Quote
More and more the 'third party' developers are getting cut by Microsoft--to the bone and beyond, and therefore out of the game.

there is a absolutely amazing amount of software that runs under win_xp.
- lot's of that will run under win_7
- & there is also lot's that will *not* run under win_7
so, how do you replace it ??

run a legacy copy of xp in a Vbox? or what.

btw: those offers from M$ for $50 / 90 days support are for mainland USA only.
- there not a lot of xp users  in that area, as most are in the RoTW.
in fact, most users of xp, are not in a western country, either.

so, again, if you are moving away from XP,
- RE: Consider Linux.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KD7RDZI2 on March 19, 2014, 04:43:13 PM
I am using Linux in this right moment. There are lots of good reasons for using Linux: it doesn't hang, you have much more control over the processes you are using, it's elegant, logical, fast, consumes much less RAM and CPU and so on and so forth. The last and not the least its updates are much faster, it updates all the software installed and not just the OS, and the reboot is only required when the Kernel is updated.
I am using the Ubuntu distro by Andy. This distro has just a windows manager and not a true desktop. Then I installed KDE, the best desktop environment I ever used.

Now, many but not all Windows programs runs flawlessly using WINE. Some of them are very good software eg. SDRSharp, N1MM, LOG4OM, HRD. However there is excellent software written for Linux: gqrx, Xlog, CQRLOG and Fldigi. More you have tons of free software you can easily install from repositories.

Bye bye Windows ;D


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 19, 2014, 04:59:39 PM
Like I said in the other thread about XP - it's not the windows applications that will get you but the hardware drivers that will get you in Linux. It's just not a favorable environment to try to get various ham radio hardware to work in.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5TED on March 19, 2014, 06:17:46 PM
Many of you complain that Linux does not support the programs you currently use.  Let's look at this claim in three parts.

Firstly, Linux has a different set of programs that may look and work a bit differently, but support most of the activities that you do with your Windows software.  Logging, rig control, I/Q panadapter, SDR, and so forth are all well supported with mature programs that have existed (for some packages) for up to two decades.  Configuration is a bit different but device interfaces are generally more reliable with Linux.

Secondly, Linux supports a software package called Wine.  Wine allows you to run your Windows programs in Linux with a very minimal one-time setup procedure that looks and works identically to the Windows installer itself.  It is compatible with the vast majority of Windows software at this point.

Thirdly, Linux supports several virtualization packages like VirtualBox or VMWare.  These programs essentially create a PC inside your PC, which takes advantage of the hardware virtualization support of most relatively current Intel processors to run any OS you'd like at full speed, in a window.  These virtualization packages also support checkpointing your OS's virtualized drives, so that you can take a snapshot of the entire virtual computer and roll back any changes whenever you wish.  If you get a virus, or your virtual hard drive is erased somehow, you can roll back any changes with a single click.

Of course, you can always stay on the endless Windows upgrade treadmill, where your software will likely quit working anyway, but the beauty of Linux is that security patches are available for most system components indefinitely, and if they are not, you have the source code so you can always do it yourself or hire somebody to patch it.

There's a Linux distribution that you can burn to a CD and run directly off your CD-ROM drive without installing to your hard drive called Andy's Ham Radio Linux, that is custom tailored to ham radio and includes tons of useful nice amateur radio related software installed by default.  Before you just write off Linux because it doesn't support a particular software package that you happen to enjoy, give it a fair shake.  It's a more stable and long-term supported OS than Microsoft makes.

My Windows software hasn't "quit working" yet. Examples are MMSSTV, the DXLabs suite, HRD, and other really old stuff that continue to live on from XP thru Win8.1

Why would I want to run Wine when I can run Win?

I wrote off Linux for my shack desktop years ago when it became apparent it is a work in progress,though stable, but consistently painful to implement, always requiring some level of rationalization and complacency.

Linux is great for web servers and some appliances in my shack. It's not a primary OS for the gamut of applications I use most often.

More power to the experimenters and fiddlers who might eventually make Linux the go to ham shack OS.

"At this point, though, driver support is better than Windows for most devices"

Which devices? All my sound cards, digi interfaces and CAT capable rigs run fine on Windows.

I keep Puppy with FLDigi in my toolbox just in case....

While your software may be supported well under Windows 8, there have been many issues with older software not working with Windows 8 properly.  Also, while you may be lucky in your choice of hardware and drivers may be available for Windows 8, many pieces of perfectly functional hardware are no longer supported by the manufacturer and drivers are not available.

It's good that your setup works for you, but others may not be able to upgrade to Windows 8 without buying new hardware or software simply to get them back to where they are today with Windows XP.

And there's no guarantee that switching to Linux will cure these issues.

I'm not running anything special, hardware wise, and daresay my choice pf ham software likely includes some of the most widely used applications in the hobby.

There's a reason Linux has continued to lag Windows success in the desktop environment, just like Ford Explorers beat kit car sales hands down.

Universal appeal and useability is not problem.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N1UKX on March 20, 2014, 02:59:40 AM
  Another non computer geek question: In lieu of using a burnable disc it was previously mentioned that a memory stick may possibly be used, if so, once Linux is down loaded into the computer then transferred to the memory stick does this take place of the disc  "burning" so you can directly suck back off the memory stick to replace the XP OS? If so,  is there any special type memory stick to be used? Thanks
You'll still have to burn the .ISO file to the memory stick. 
Get at least an 8 gig stick.
Boot off the stick and and Linux will run.  You can then see if you're going to be comfortable with Linux or not. 
I suggest getting the Linux-Mint-Mate. 
Google it and read the manual on that site to get a feel for it...  LL


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KB5JOF on March 20, 2014, 08:03:44 AM
Does anyone have an application for JT65 that will run under Linux? 
KB5JOF
Joe


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 20, 2014, 08:18:56 AM
Yes, wsjt is available for Linux on Joe Taylor's main site. It will do JT65 and the newer, superior JT9 mode.

I've only used it for RX. It's a great piece of software.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K3DCW on March 20, 2014, 09:07:58 AM
Does anyone have an application for JT65 that will run under Linux? 
KB5JOF
Joe

Yes, WSJT-X is the current development version of WSJT which is the origin of JT65 (not JT65-HF, as is commonly believed) and which started on Linux.  WSJT-X is available in most major distributions and can be built of nearly all. 

Simply google WSJT K1JT and you'll be good to go. 

73

Dave
K3DCW


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K0JEG on March 22, 2014, 08:39:28 AM
Like I said in the other thread about XP - it's not the windows applications that will get you but the hardware drivers that will get you in Linux. It's just not a favorable environment to try to get various ham radio hardware to work in.

Such as? There's very little hardware that won't work in modern linux distros. Yes, there are lots of "binary blob" device drivers and most Linux purists resist them, but if you just want to use it, there's very little general hardware that won't work.

As for ham-specific hardware such as radios and other common devices, there's the HAMLIB library, which is still actively developed and supported. Yes, the developer community might not anticipate the latest and greatest hardware, but I personally have had "drivers" developed by the community (for a telescope mount used as an az/el rotator) and the software works incredibly well, and even if you don't find your specific radio listed there's usually something that will work well enough. And, if you really want to, since it's all fairly well documented you can roll your own device driver and contribute to the project.

One more thing: If you are a remote operator, Linux out of the box will easily allow for remote operation. That same HAMLIB library (running as a daemon, a background program similar to a TSR from back in the DOS days) can operate devices remotely by just entering an IP address (or hostname if you use DDNS) and port number. With a little effort you can get remote sound using JACK. This isn't a remote desktop solution, you're running a program locally while a small remote machine handles shack control. I've experimented with using a Raspberry Pi as the remote machine and it does work very well. But even if you don't want to get that elaborate, there are lots of remote desktop options for Linux, most for free, that do a great job.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K0JEG on March 22, 2014, 10:34:14 AM
I think the biggest hurdle to overcome moving to Linux is having to learn a new way of doing things. I've found there are people who use computers as tools, and people who just like to use computers.

I fall into the second camp, so I saw moving to Linux (and later the nearly identical Mac OS) as a fun learning experience. It doesn't hurt that once I started poking around I found Linux to be compatible with the way I think (and I think many hams, if they were able/willing to take the time would come to the same conclusion). I've run Windows from version 3.1 to 98 and XP, gone through NT 3.51 and 4.0, and even had an Amiga and a Mac or two along the way. That doesn't even cover mobile devices, like the Windows CE, Symbian and (yes, it runs Linux) Nokia N800 handheld computers. I ran Linux in the early 2000's and found it not ready for prime time, but interesting (that's when I jumped over to the NT side). When Microsoft over promised and under delivered on Vista (remember the "revolutionary" file system WinFS?), and Intel's mainstreaming of 64 bit processors (which MS still won't support by default, although most end users don't care), I started to give Linux a fresh look.

I think the biggest change has been the rise of the search engine. If you have a problem, it's likely that someone else has had a similar problem and a simple search will lead you to the solution. Again, something I enjoy doing (or at least don't get all that frustrated by), and once I fix it, the solution goes into the tool box. It also becomes fairly easy to transfer those skills on to other platforms, like Mac OS and Android, since they are *nix based. Not to mention the new "hacker" PCs like the Raspberry Pi.

Don't get me wrong, there's really not a lot of fiddling needed with Linux. Once things are set up they tend to stay set up. 99% of the time I use my computers in much the same way everyone else does. However, I think I am willing to tolerate a lot more crap than most people (like setting up maps on Xastir. ...Why must it always be such a painful experience?), but once it's done, it just works.

If you're in the "other camp" seeing a computer as nothing but a tool to accomplish a task, and you've been using Windows to accomplish that task, I can see why you would not want to change. You know where the tools are on the workbench, the handles have worn down where your hands have held them over the years. You know the tool's features and limitations and have adapted your way of working to the tool. And why get rid of something that still works just fine? To you, it didn't matter what the OS is, or what it did, just that you had a task you wanted to accomplish with as little fanfare as possible. You might have used Windows at work, or your Elmer uses program X and so you just went along (early on, if Elmers had Apples the ham community might look very different today, just look at the world of audio and video production, where the Mac reigns supreme).

At work I fall into this camp. I have to get something done. The company provides me tools in the form of Windows/Office to accomplish that task. When Microsoft upgraded Office and introduced the "ribbon" UI it took me the better part of a morning to figure out how to print a document, because they moved the print icon to a spot that (now that I've used it for a while) sort of makes sense, but was in a completely different and non-ovbious location. I often find myself longing for my "home" toolkit, but because the entire corporate computing culture is based on the tools in use, I either make the best of it or leave. There's a lot of similarities between the work culture and ham radio culture when it comes to computing, although for different reasons. At work a platform or application is decided on by a leader for a variety of reasons (often times conflicting with employees' goals). In a hobby perhaps it is more of a consensus, but in the case of ham radio what is recommended is what is chosen. Luckily the world of ham radio doesn't depend on proprietary formats or systems so developers can use whatever platform suits them. In fact, the community tends to shun proprietary or closed systems whenever possible.

Of course software companies don't want to maintain the old way. They don't make money fixing bugs on 20 year old software, in fact they lose money. So force an upgrade now and again and end-of-life the old stuff. That in of itself is just fine, but you have to keep your employees productive too. Hiring a bunch of top-level designers and programmers to fix bugs is no way to run a company (and of course your competition keeps advancing), so you have to do something, even though your user base resists change in any way, because the majority of users are using tools to accomplish a task, not play with computers. And it isn't just commercial software. Google "Ubuntu Unity UI" and you'll see vitriol spewed in quantity. Heck, even a minor change like Gnome 3.0 angered the community enough to generate pages of complaints. The nice thing about Linux is that it's fairly simple to go backward if you wish, but again, it still requires effort that just keeping what you have does not.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 23, 2014, 05:58:43 AM
Notice the qualifier used - "general"

Yes, there are lots of "binary blob" device drivers and most Linux purists resist them, but if you just want to use it, there's very little general hardware that won't work.

Please define "general hardware".

And please tell us if a DVB USB SDR dongle is "general hardware"

Thanks.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K0JEG on March 23, 2014, 09:55:13 AM
Notice the qualifier used - "general"

Yes, there are lots of "binary blob" device drivers and most Linux purists resist them, but if you just want to use it, there's very little general hardware that won't work.

Please define "general hardware".

And please tell us if a DVB USB SDR dongle is "general hardware"

Thanks.

You're joking, right? Much of the early (and current) development of DVB SDRS was done on Linux machines. There are tons of blog posts about setting up SDRs on USB DVB sticks. A quick select/search with google of your "DVB USB SDR Linux" returned about 27K pages, many with simple copy/paste instructions showing on the first page of results.

General hardware, in my mind, is what you get when you buy a modern machine. Video (HDMI, etc), sound, USB3.0, GigE network, SD card readers. When it comes to USB devices, everything from UPSs and printers (although some very low end printers might not be supported, the CUPS printing system is full of surprises), to my Kenwood TH-d72 and Icom IC-9100 which both worked out of the box.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: AE5YJ on March 24, 2014, 05:50:42 AM
If you want to try Linux but not commit, then I recommend a live boot usb running Kali linux. It is designed for cyber security professionals, but is ham radio friendly. In fact, there is even an application tab specifically for Ham radio. In it you will find several sdr programs, CHIRP, and RTL dongle plug and play compatibility.

http://www.hamradioscience.com/gnu-radio-the-easy-way/

and if you don't like it, just remove the stick and reboot. I love it so much I am going to dual boot it with win 7. These distributions have come a long way, I first experimented with live boot cd's back in 2004, and didn't care for them. This Kali distro had no problem loading drivers for every aspect of my laptop and had full functionality. I was impressed.

regards,
Andy
AE5YJ


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KD8QOI on March 24, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
I run linux all the time. I am currently running fedora and they have a wide range of ham radio add-ons


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4KYR on March 24, 2014, 04:01:31 PM
I run linux all the time. I am currently running fedora and they have a wide range of ham radio add-ons

For the benefit of others.

Could you explain which version of Fedora you are using.

What are the specs on your computer?

Were there were any issues with installing it and did you encounter any driver issues?

What radios if any are you using with it?

Are you using a SignaLink USB, Rigblaster, computer sound card for your digital communications?

What advantages do you note using Fedora over other Linux distributions?

How long have you been using Linux and/or Fedora?

What ham radio related programs does Fedora have and how well do they work?

What modes do you use with this set up and well do they work?

I think these questions and your answers could guide those looking for alternatives to XP.
Thanks in advance

.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA2PBJ on March 24, 2014, 10:46:11 PM
I don't understand why some people feel the 'need' to disrupt perfectly function users and put them on Linux. 'just because' has never been a good enough reason for me.

People should choose their computer by the choice of software and hardware they want to use. If it isn't easy, it likely wont get used. Most people are their own IT support and there is a lot to be said by sticking with what you know.

I am a programmer / IT person since 1982. I am certified in Windows, Citrix, Solaris and Linux. I have been using apple products from the time they looked like a ripped off a KIM-1 (that would be an APPLE 1 without a case). When I come home, I don't want to fix stuff (unless it's a camera or a radio). I want to turn it on and go....

So if XP works, us it. I still run W2K on a machine. Just because Linux is there doesn't mean I have to or should use it.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4KYR on March 25, 2014, 05:15:39 AM

So if XP works, us it. I still run W2K on a machine. Just because Linux is there doesn't mean I have to or should use it.


I agree, unless there are concerns that using an XP computer on the internet months after the support is gone could lead to security issues. Eventually it comes down to a choice between tossing a perfectly functioning computer out to the curb or finding another OS to run on it in order to continue to use it on the internet. By changing the OS to another operating system such as Linux (or ANY other modern operating system). It is possible to use computer on the internet for a few years more.

The answer to all this would be if some outside company offered support and security updates for XP (after Microsoft stops supporting it). However I doubt Microsoft would ever allow that to happen even if the company offers Microsoft a cut of the profits because it could affect sales of Microsoft's newer OS.

Microsoft could have released a "Legacy OS" in 2007 that could have replaced XP and yet still run on XP machines, and still be functionally up to date. They saw the hand writing on the wall again with the Vista debacle after and they knew 2014 was still off in the distance then and missed yet another opportunity to release a "Legacy OS" to run on those millions of XP computers at home and in the corporate world. Microsoft sells operating systems not computers so if they went this route, it would have been more money for Microsoft. What does MSFT care? They don't sell computers.

But I think the reason why none of that came about was because Microsoft didn't want to piss off the computer manufacturers. Because then if consumers just upgraded the software without buying the computers. It really would not affect Microsoft, but the manufacturers.. They would have felt that Microsoft was screwing them over. I guess after the Windows 8 debacle, some companies might feel that MSFT screwed them over anyway....But I am getting off topic...


If the computer is going to be offline and used for other tasks then keep whatever OS that is on it whether it is XP or Windows 2000 (which is one of Microsoft's better Operating Systems). I have some functional Windows 98 laptops which will be used for packet radio.

There are hobbyists keeping older machines alive running OS/2, Commodore, DOS, Win 3.11, NT 4.0, 95 and 98. Then there are those who keep the older machines alive in order to run 'classic' games and programs on Dos, Win 3.11, 95 and 98 machines.

As hams, we generally don't throw out radios that are considered obsolete and still functional. There is no reason to toss out a perfectly good running computer just because some software company decides to no longer support it.





 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 25, 2014, 05:44:14 AM

So if XP works, us it. I still run W2K on a machine. Just because Linux is there doesn't mean I have to or should use it.

I agree, unless there are concerns that using an XP computer on the internet months after the support is gone could lead to security issues. ... By changing the OS to another operating system such as Linux (or ANY other modern operating system). It is possible to use computer on the internet for a few years more.

Bingo!

I have a big Dell Poweredge with Windows 2000 Advanced Server. But I never connect it to the Internet for very long. Too much risk, even though it's behind a secure firewall. And there's no support or security software available for Win2K AS anymore, as expensive as that multi-processor server OS was to purchase.

Quote
The answer to all this would be if some outside company offered support and security updates for XP (after Microsoft stops supporting it).

FWIW, Malwarebytes has said they are going to support their product on XP indefinitely.

Quote
If the computer is going to be offline and used for other tasks then keep whatever OS that is on it whether it is XP or Windows 2000 (which is one of Microsoft's better Operating Systems). ... There is no reason to toss out a perfectly good running computer just because some software company decides to no longer support it.

I'm using an old Pentium III 450 MHz box with 512K RAM for our main firewall and router. It runs a Linux-based firewall and is faster than any router I've ever used.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W8JX on March 25, 2014, 06:01:16 AM
I agree, unless there are concerns that using an XP computer on the internet months after the support is gone could lead to security issues. Eventually it comes down to a choice between tossing a perfectly functioning computer out to the curb or finding another OS to run on it in order to continue to use it on the internet. By changing the OS to another operating system such as Linux (or ANY other modern operating system). It is possible to use computer on the internet for a few years more.

Something being left out of the equation here is that most these old computers are getting pretty old hard drive included and it is getting harder to find drives for them. It is best to cut losses and get new hardware and OS.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W1JKA on March 25, 2014, 06:31:22 AM
Re: W8JX

  Re check your math, nothing is being left out of the equation: to find X (old hard drives) just go to your local independent computer repair shop where you will find old working drives a dime a dozen from stripped out PCs, not to mention finding them on line. Let's see does 2+2 = 22 or 4.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W8JX on March 25, 2014, 06:36:45 AM
Re: W8JX

  Re check your math, nothing is being left out of the equation: to find X (old hard drives) just go to your local independent computer repair shop where you will find old working drives a dime a dozen from stripped out PCs, not to mention finding them on line. Let's see does 2+2 = 22 or 4.

A old stripped out HD is no more reliable than one in unit. I swap out/replace a hard drive when it is 3 years or so old and replace it with new and do not wait for failure.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA2PBJ on March 25, 2014, 07:32:35 AM
The XP machine is still quite useful, even on the internet. Microsoft is not fixing the os, but NAV (or whatever) is being updated, Chrome is being updated, .... And as far as the internet is concerned, hardware firewalls should be the norm by now. There are still lots of options to keep it running. Java has only stopped being supported on W2K since version 7. The reality is Microsoft hasn't released much at all in the last 12 months, same with vista.

Vista was not a debacle. It was a PR nightmare. Fact just never went with the pace of perception. The press loves to make a ship with a leak sink; it doesn't take much effort and keeps readers reading. If you had the resources (cpu & ram), it ran just fine. The only reason I took vista off my machine (12 cores, 64g ram) was because of the juicy $50 upgrade price for Win8.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K9IUQ on March 25, 2014, 07:39:19 AM
I swap out/replace a hard drive when it is 3 years or so old and replace it with new and do not wait for failure.

If you backup regularly I guarantee that your hardrive will NOT fail. Having used hardrives for umpteen years I have only had one HD failure. This was 25 years ago, and I had no backup. Since that episode I backup  regularly and have never had a hardrive fail.

Changing out a hardrive every 3 years is not too smart. Instead just buy some good Backup Software ( I use Acronis) and dare the hardrive to fail... You will save money, headaches and your HD will outlast you.

If your hardrive ain't broke (failed) stop trying to fix it.  :D :D

Stan K9IUQ


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W8JX on March 25, 2014, 07:50:06 AM
The XP machine is still quite useful, even on the internet. Microsoft is not fixing the os, but NAV (or whatever) is being updated, Chrome is being updated, .... And as far as the internet is concerned, hardware firewalls should be the norm by now. There are still lots of options to keep it running. Java has only stopped being supported on W2K since version 7. The reality is Microsoft hasn't released much at all in the last 12 months, same with vista.

It is not that simple. Security holes and exploits in OS are independent of browser. You are playing Russian Roulette with XP on Web after April and with more bullets in cylinder as time goes on. Only safe way to us XP is disconnected from Web. As far as updates, MS has issued a lot in last 12 months.  

Vista was not a debacle. It was a PR nightmare. Fact just never went with the pace of perception. The press loves to make a ship with a leak sink; it doesn't take much effort and keeps readers reading. If you had the resources (cpu & ram), it ran just fine. The only reason I took vista off my machine (12 cores, 64g ram) was because of the juicy $50 upgrade price for Win8.

Them problem with Vista was OS was ahead of hardware at launch and some makers like Dell flooded market with hardware that WAS NOT Vista compliant. With proper hardware and with dual cores and at least 2 gig of RAM vista was fine especially at SP1 level and above. I have a 6 plus year old intel quad core Vista machine with 8 gig of ram and i upgraded drive to a TB 7200 RPM drive with 32 meg cache a few years ago and it is still a solid machine. I still like Vista more than 7 but I do like 8 too.

 BTW the only things I back is data and not whole drive and I have never lost data on a HD


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 25, 2014, 07:57:33 AM
Security holes and exploits in OS are independent of browser. You are playing Russian Roulette with XP on Web after April and with more bullets in cylinder as time goes on. Only safe way to us XP is disconnected from Web.

I agree. No matter what security software we use on XP Pro after 4/8/14, we are vulnerable to malware.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KD8QOI on March 30, 2014, 08:21:20 PM
For the benefit of others.

Could you explain which version of Fedora you are using: Just using latest update 64 bit version

What are the specs on your computer? Pretty good, It's a gaming computer with a 2.5Ghz dual core processor, GTX 560, 3GB ram

Were there were any issues with installing it and did you encounter any driver issues? Not that I can think of

What radios if any are you using with it? Have a ft-857d but not interfaced with the computer what-so-ever. I have not looked into doing so

Are you using a SignaLink USB, Rigblaster, computer sound card for your digital communications? Have not looked into any of this yet. Waiting for upgrade

What advantages do you note using Fedora over other Linux distributions? I like fedora because it seems more "newb" friendly and has less extra un-needed crap Ubuntu has. I also recommend Linux Mint for computers with low-ish specs. Mint also has a Windows like feel to it so it is very easy to transition to. I like Mint and Fedora equally.   

How long have you been using Linux and/or Fedora? Linux : 5 years Fedora: 3 years Mint: 3.5 years

What ham radio related programs does Fedora have and how well do they work? Have not tried any. Have searched though and their are many loggers

What modes do you use with this set up and well do they work? None

I think these questions and your answers could guide those looking for alternatives to XP.
Thanks in advance


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 31, 2014, 04:14:58 AM
So I re-installed Ubuntu on the laptop - this time it seemed to work. It also went out to the cloud and grabbed a bunch of updates. So it's looking goo right?

I needed to get it off the wired network. I then plugged in the Netgear wireless USB dongle I was using under Vista.

 ???

Nothing. Nada, Zip. Zilch. Zero.

It acted as if I had plugged in a popsicle stick. It just sat there and gave me no options to make it work.

At least in Windoze it would have given me options to try and make it work, searching for drivers and such. Under Linux - I am left to fend for myself. This is why Linux will never make it mainstream.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4KYR on March 31, 2014, 06:39:57 AM
So I re-installed Ubuntu on the laptop - this time it seemed to work. It also went out to the cloud and grabbed a bunch of updates. So it's looking goo right?

I needed to get it off the wired network. I then plugged in the Netgear wireless USB dongle I was using under Vista.

 ???

Nothing. Nada, Zip. Zilch. Zero.

It acted as if I had plugged in a popsicle stick. It just sat there and gave me no options to make it work.

At least in Windoze it would have given me options to try and make it work, searching for drivers and such. Under Linux - I am left to fend for myself. This is why Linux will never make it mainstream.

When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

Unlike Ubuntu, Linux Mint is better in that regard. It will prompt for or could even have the drivers in the OS. Also the codecs 'work out of the box' as well unlike Ubuntu.


How to install any Netgear wireless adapter driver on Ubuntu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNR0Wvg1k5I

also

[SOLVED] trying to install Netgear usb wireless adapter
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1806839





Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W8JX on March 31, 2014, 07:37:30 AM

When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

It was likely because it was a non standard install/restore meaning unit never came with 7. If it had the OEM Win 7 install disk would of had needed drivers




Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 31, 2014, 11:04:43 AM
When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

You are missing the point entirely. Windows will prompt you to search for drivers or for the driver disk or source. Ubuntu was silent. That's the point - Linux will never be mainstream of it's going to sit silent when somebody wants to install a device from a mainstream manufacturer. Oh, and sending them to a highly technical forum to hack and paste weird terminal strings ain't gonna make the cut with the average Joe.

Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...

I'm done with this round of time-wasting. The laptop is going into the closet for a couple of years until Linux get's it's act together - if it ever does.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on March 31, 2014, 12:56:47 PM
Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...
Actually, the question could be reversed based on the conspiracy angle.  Microsoft and Apple may be "paying" the hardware companies not to support Linux. Logically, if you sell hardware you want it work with any operating system.

The conspiracy thought may not be too far fetched. Note how the big box stores sell computers with Window pre-installed. Out of curiosity, I once asked the salesperson at Best Buy if I could buy a computer without Windows and he said "NO". Note how Apple has been able to get the manufactures of many radio/music devices to make them iPad (proprietary) compatible, but not plain USB compatible. (Absolute marketing genius on the part of Apple.)


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 31, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...

Linux used to have a real issue with wireless networking. I used to own an old IBM Thinkpad with only 128 MB RAM. By today's standards, it was a dinosaur. It came with 3 PCMCIA network cards, and it was dual boot: either Win98 or some older distro of Linux (forget which).

I used it to enjoy trying different Linux distros on it. The newest Netgear wireless card didn't work immediately with Linux, but that was not difficult to fix. But all the other PCMCIA network cards --wired and wireless-- worked in various Linux distros I installed on that machine  without even trying.

There was ONE distro of Linux where the display was messed up (forget which). But I haven't had that happen in years, either with the newer video systems or the old Xorg stuff which admittedly could be tempermental.

Quote
Actually, the question could be reversed based on the conspiracy angle.  Microsoft and Apple may be "paying" the hardware companies not to support Linux. Logically, if you sell hardware you want it work with any operating system.

The conspiracy thought may not be too far fetched. Note how the big box stores sell computers with Window pre-installed. Out of curiosity, I once asked the salesperson at Best Buy if I could buy a computer without Windows and he said "NO". ...

Didn't Best Buy or somebody similar offer a machine with Linux a few years ago? I forget the details, but Microsoft did something to try and stop it. Anyone remember the details?


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA2PBJ on March 31, 2014, 01:40:12 PM
All the first netbooks were Linux based. Microsoft then developed a better "price" and the oems started shipping windows on them.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 31, 2014, 01:43:30 PM
IIRC, Microsoft told the salespeople how to explain what the "disadvantages" of Linux were, vs. Windows.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on March 31, 2014, 02:25:33 PM
When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

You are missing the point entirely. Windows will prompt you to search for drivers or for the driver disk or source.

But if the network card's driver is not already running and can connect to the internet, there is no search unless the driver is already on the CD/DVD.  I've had that happen to me on a few machines I attempted to install Windows on.

Quote
Ubuntu was silent. That's the point - Linux will never be mainstream of it's going to sit silent when somebody wants to install a device from a mainstream manufacturer. Oh, and sending them to a highly technical forum to hack and paste weird terminal strings ain't gonna make the cut with the average Joe.

Ubuntu is Ubuntu.  Try Mint.  It's a far better distribution for consumers than Ubuntu, and I've used both. 

And who, outside of stuck-in-the-'90s Slackware, Gentoo, or Linux From Scratch users, needs to edit text files to get things working?  Modern distros have GUI configuration tools that work just as well as Windows Control Panel.  Rarely is it necessary to edit anything unless you're writing your own software. 

BTW, it doesn't hurt to learn such things.  Anyone with a ham license should be smart enough to learn it.  It's a skill, just like operating CW.

Quote
Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...

Not officially maybe, but search around.  Or else, don't buy Netgear.

Quote
I'm done with this round of time-wasting. The laptop is going into the closet for a couple of years until Linux get's it's act together - if it ever does.

Linux has its act together.  There is little that a Linux machine can't do, and it's come a long way in the last 10 years.  But one must learn to use it properly, just like one has to learn how to use a Windows PC or a Mac properly to get the most out of it.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W4KYR on March 31, 2014, 02:40:30 PM


Didn't Best Buy or somebody similar offer a machine with Linux a few years ago? I forget the details, but Microsoft did something to try and stop it. Anyone remember the details?

Best Buy sure did and so did MicroCenter.  I have one and it works great. Asus Eee PC 900 with Linux. It had a Xandros-based Linux operating system. I wanted something better so I installed "Easy Peasy" over the Xandros.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ubuntu-eee/

By the way, it got 5 out of 5 stars in 45 reviews.


There were some allegations about Microsoft and these laptops (netbooks) but I won't repeat them here. It is pointless anyway.







Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 31, 2014, 03:58:21 PM
Ubuntu is Ubuntu.  Try Mint.  It's a far better distribution for consumers than Ubuntu, and I've used both. 

OK I'll take you up on that. May not be until the weekend but I will burn an ISO and see what happens.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on March 31, 2014, 04:10:09 PM
Ubuntu is Ubuntu.  Try Mint.  It's a far better distribution for consumers than Ubuntu, and I've used both. ...
Linux has its act together.  There is little that a Linux machine can't do, and it's come a long way in the last 10 years.  But one must learn to use it properly, just like one has to learn how to use a Windows PC or a Mac properly to get the most out of it.

Well said.

I've never tried Mint, but I've heard nothing except good things about it.

Last time I upgraded Ubuntu from the previous LTS (long-term support, a stable version) to the current LTS version, I got the impression that Ubuntu is not the distro it was before. (Having said that, I did some things when I upgraded that they tell you never to do. :-) Until someone suggested that I ditch Unity, ditch the latest version of Gnome, and install the XFCE desktop (which turns Ubuntu into Xubuntu), I was ready to switch to another distro.
(The main problem was that I don't have enough RAM on this Xubuntu machine here in my shack.)

I couldn't be any happier now. This machine runs many weeks between reboots, and that's almost always because there's an automatic kernel security update. I'm keeping Xubuntu on this machine for the foreseeable future.

EDIT: A good friend of mine swears by Scientific Linux. I've never tried it.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on March 31, 2014, 04:52:22 PM
But really, why can't it just at least acknowledge to the dear user that it knows you have inserted a device and it's confused about what to do and give you a link to the support forum? I just do not understand leaving the user to fend for themselves when a USB device is plugged in. My gosh it's the year 2014!


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K4TFJ on March 31, 2014, 05:30:05 PM
Linux is definitely not for the timid. However, I have recently installed Linux on two (2) machines, as of today. I am using Mint 16. First was a flawless install on the laptop. Which surprised me. I too have tried Linux in the past and been very disappointed with the wifi support. IT WORKED OUT OF THE BOX! Next I installed it on my desktop. AGAIN WORKING OUT OF THE BOX. Now I haven't really done a lot with it yet, but compared to several years ago, its much better!

There are still many things that are glossed over or assumed when installing or using Linux.
Biggest complaint... I wanted to dual-boot and it is not OBVIOUS what to do to make that happen. I figured it out, because I did it years ago. But still not new user friendly....
Secondly I wanted a static IP, again.. thru GOOGLE I figured it out. But still not new user friendly....
Last but not least (coming from Windows), it is a little frustrating to find multiple ways of installing/building/compiling software and then have no clue where it got installed to!
I swear I have one program that I installed, I can run it from the command line, but I can't find the configuration files to anywhere!!!

It's a learning curve, but I would rather do this than continue to spend money on operating systems and software that are over-bloated and expensive.

Now I am going to learn/re-learn some programming and try to contribute more ham related software to the Linux community.

Anyone can complain and stick with what they got.... or you can dive in and help make it better. That's where I am headed.

73, K4TFJ


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on March 31, 2014, 06:58:20 PM
Ubuntu is Ubuntu.  Try Mint.  It's a far better distribution for consumers than Ubuntu, and I've used both. 

OK I'll take you up on that. May not be until the weekend but I will burn an ISO and see what happens.
Ubuntu should be issuing its next upgrade (14.04) in mid April, so you may want to postpone any installation till then.  I believe that Mint releases its upgrade about a month after Ubuntu. "Linux Mint 17 will be named “Qiana” and should be available at the end of May 2014. (http://www.linuxmint.com/)"

Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr Final Beta Available For Download [Video, Screenshots] (http://www.webupd8.org/2014/03/ubuntu-1404-trusty-tahr-final-beta.html)

I swear I have one program that I installed, I can run it from the command line, but I can't find the configuration files to anywhere!!!
I've had the same issue at times. ;D


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on March 31, 2014, 08:26:34 PM
But really, why can't it just at least acknowledge to the dear user that it knows you have inserted a device and it's confused about what to do and give you a link to the support forum? I just do not understand leaving the user to fend for themselves when a USB device is plugged in. My gosh it's the year 2014!

The major distros will automount a USB drive.  For security reasons, it's really not a good idea, although for the general public it's not an issue.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on April 01, 2014, 04:17:25 AM
The major distros will automount a USB drive.  For security reasons, it's really not a good idea, although for the general public it's not an issue.

Yep, and I inserted my USB drive and it mounted it. But that just goes to show you it can recognize that something got plugged in. When I looked at several solutions, one said to type "lsusb" in a terminal window and see what devices showed up. I did that and it clearly showed a wireless device was able to be seen in the list.

That just begs the question again - why not DO something for the user at that point! Point them to some solution - don't just leave them sitting there! There's just no excuse for that non-action.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA2PBJ on April 01, 2014, 04:26:24 AM
Your wireless dongle probably suffers from other wireless card issues : 3rd party firmware not included. My liksys cards had the same issue. I had to go to another site and select 'yes' to a ula get get the firmware, and now it works. It took a while to find out that one.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K0EKL on April 01, 2014, 06:46:28 AM
My results have been 100%, two for two, with Lubuntu LXLE (Lubuntu eXtra Life Edition), a Ubuntu distro meant for older PCs.

I burned the .ISO to a CD and installed it on the hard drive of a 10 year old HP laptop with a Centrino Duo CPU. It found and installed every driver without any intervention from me. Ethernet and WiFi, video, even the bluetooth drivers.

Later I installed it on a 5 year old Dell micro PC with an Atom processor and had zero problems.

Here's a link:

http://lxle.net/

or

www.lxle.net


 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5INP on April 01, 2014, 07:32:52 AM
Your wireless dongle probably suffers from other wireless card issues : 3rd party firmware not included...

Again - people are missing the point. The machine clearly sees that a USB device was plugged in. Even if it doesn't have the drivers, it should give you options right then and there to help you. It should not just sit there and act like nothing has happened. Many people are not going to bother with going to a support site and looking at hacks - they will just give up.


Until Linux makes it more user-friendly it will never be a leader.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W1JKA on April 01, 2014, 08:28:08 AM
Question, would the before mentioned "LXLE" down load be comapatble with latest version of Linux Mint?"


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5UNX on April 01, 2014, 08:30:10 AM
Question, would the before mentioned "LXLE" down load be comapatble with latest version of Linux Mint?"

LXLE and Linux Mint are two different Linux distributions.  You would use one or the other.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K9MHZ on April 07, 2014, 07:05:58 AM
I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.

You mean like Amazon,  Android, and Mac OS which all have a UNIX and/or LINUX lineage?

NASA's using the LINUX kernel in some space probes.  Maybe the bloated MS crashing deal isn't so attractive to them.



Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA2PBJ on April 07, 2014, 09:52:19 AM
MacOS is not unix and OS/X is a BSD variant.

My windows doesn't crash, but I have an iSCSI linux server that does.

Bloating has been in the Linux world for quite some time. That's the attraction Ubuntu had in the server world; you just install what you need.

You will find more QNX than Linux at NASA.

Android may be built on Linux, but the api and environment exposed is java front and centre.

'Just because' is never really a good reason.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5UNX on April 07, 2014, 10:06:06 AM
MacOS is not unix and OS/X is a BSD variant.

Mac OSX is a flavor of Unix. It's derived from BSD, among other things and actually a certified version of Unix, according to The Open Group which certifies these things. HPUX, AIX, Linux, Solaris, and OSX all fall into the same category as OSX.

 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K9MHZ on April 07, 2014, 12:28:02 PM
Mac OSX is a flavor of Unix. It's derived from BSD, among other things and actually a certified version of Unix, according to The Open Group which certifies these things. HPUX, AIX, Linux, Solaris, and OSX all fall into the same category as OSX.

Yes, it most certainly is.  And, I don't get the "bloating" equation that PBJ makes wrt LINUX and MS.  Yes, there have been outcries in the open source/LINUX world about continually adding to the kernel, but to even equate what's been done with the bloated mess that's MS is ridiculous.  I think he's confusing the different distro shells with the kernel itself, evidenced by his server comment, to which I personally agree.  


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5PG on April 07, 2014, 06:32:34 PM
I haven't messed with Linux since the mid/late 1990s. With the orphaning of XP I looked around and decided to try  Linux-Mint-Mate so I made the DVD just following the user manual. The only thing that differed was when I ran the MD5SUM against the image, all I got was gibberish.

Changed the boot order to put DVD fitst, popped it in and up it came. Painless.

Played around a while, I think I'm going to like it.

The reason I don't want to go to Win7 is cost. There's three desktops, one laptop and two netbooks, all running XP at present, plus shack PC running Vista.

A dumb question: I have an external HD with lots of .doc jpg etc files on it, will Linux Mint read them OK as is ?


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on April 07, 2014, 06:45:38 PM
A dumb question: I have an external HD with lots of .doc jpg etc files on it, will Linux Mint read them OK as is ?

LibreOffice should work just fine with most MSWord .doc files, unless custom outline formatting and Word Pictures are involved.  Word Pictures won't translate at all, and outline formatting may or may not work, depending on the complexity of the formatting.

Graphics files (.bmp, .jpg, .gif, .png, etc.) are no problem whatsoever. 

I've been using Linux Mint, aka "Ubuntu without the corporate, Microsoft/Apple/Red Hat-wannabe BS" and "Debian without the political correctness - er, I mean GNU Political Correctness," for several years and have had few issues.  The Mate edition is fantastic.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA3DUX on April 10, 2014, 10:56:48 AM
Linux is free, but its to esoteric for many hams, including me.
Yes it has many secondary programs that work well.The big problem has been and still is, there are no (full Radio control) programs,None.
I have tried Linux for over thirty years, many flavours, still ending up with the same problem, No full rig control software.
Some say Use Wine as a emulator, along with others, Why do this, just use with Windows, these emulator programs do not work all the time IF at all.
When and If I can run these top Ham Rig control programs on Linux without emulators, I will be the first to change over.
All The Best 73 David
VA3DUX


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KE6TDP on April 18, 2014, 09:07:46 AM
With the death of Windows XP, now is the perfect time to switch to Linux (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/180291-with-the-death-of-windows-xp-now-is-the-perfect-time-to-switch-to-linux)

A good article.  Linux works well with most everyday applications. Esoteric uses, such as amateur radio, it is still a bit 'short".


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K3DCW on April 18, 2014, 09:59:29 AM
Yes it has many secondary programs that work well.The big problem has been and still is, there are no (full Radio control) programs,None.
I have tried Linux for over thirty years, many flavours, still ending up with the same problem, No full rig control software.
Some say Use Wine as a emulator, along with others, Why do this, just use with Windows, these emulator programs do not work all the time IF at all.
When and If I can run these top Ham Rig control programs on Linux without emulators, I will be the first to change over.
All The Best 73 David
VA3DUX

CQRlog allows rig control, and of course incorporates a full logbook, dxcluster, and much more.  Flrig is a full rig control program and integrates smoothly with all of the Fl* suite to allow digital modes (Fldigi), WINKey CW (Flwkey), and more. 

If you're looking for a replacement for HRD (for example), then HAMlib provides the radio control interface, via either CQRlog or Fldigi.  CQRlog can handle all of the tasks (at least most of the tasks) of HRD's rig control AND HRD's logbook while Fldigi is a superior replacement for DM780 for the digital enthusiast. CQRlog can also auto-import Fldigi's log so that task is automated. 

And all of these programs (and MANY more) are available via one-click install on Ubuntu/Linux Mint and other platforms.

I'm not sure what you're looking forward in terms of "full Radio Control" programs, but I'd hardly say there are "none" as you stipulate.

73

Dave
K3DCW

Dave


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KT4NR on April 19, 2014, 11:21:50 AM
Best thread on eHam for a long time. Thank you all who have contributed. I too run Mac OSX for all home stuff, stuck with Windows 7 at work, and use some older machines with XP for radio. (Someday when I need a new Mac might retire that to radio use but heck 7yrs and no issues why buy a new one!) I love HRD but am open to trying other things.

So I am looking at Linux for my XP boxes. Does it matter what build you get to run a program? You have mentioned several in this thread but I am unclear if I need to install Ubuntu and only look for Ubuntu FLDigi for example. Or can I get FLDigi and just run it on any build?

Separately, anyone know anything about this build? Found it googling.... http://shackbox.net ... Appears to be a ham centric build.

Thanks!


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on April 19, 2014, 01:09:59 PM
So I am looking at Linux for my XP boxes. Does it matter what build you get to run a program? You have mentioned several in this thread but I am unclear if I need to install Ubuntu and only look for Ubuntu FLDigi for example. Or can I get FLDigi and just run it on any build?

With any Debian-based distro (including Ubuntu & Mint), all you have to do is type "sudo apt-get install fldigi" then press Enter.  You will be asked for your password, since sudo means you're acting as "root," or the administrator.  The package manager will install FLDIGI and all its dependencies (Fast Light toolkit libraries).   I don't know if Red Hat-based distros, such as Fedora and PCLinuxOS, include it.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K0JEG on April 20, 2014, 05:08:47 AM
Best thread on eHam for a long time. Thank you all who have contributed. I too run Mac OSX for all home stuff, stuck with Windows 7 at work, and use some older machines with XP for radio. (Someday when I need a new Mac might retire that to radio use but heck 7yrs and no issues why buy a new one!) I love HRD but am open to trying other things.

So I am looking at Linux for my XP boxes. Does it matter what build you get to run a program? You have mentioned several in this thread but I am unclear if I need to install Ubuntu and only look for Ubuntu FLDigi for example. Or can I get FLDigi and just run it on any build?

Separately, anyone know anything about this build? Found it googling.... http://shackbox.net ... Appears to be a ham centric build.

Thanks!

According to the FAQ it is based on Ubuntu. Ubuntu's software store is about as easy to use as Apple's App Store, and is a graphical version of apt, the command line utility WW7KE referenced. There's also a more traditional software acquisition program called the synaptic package manager, which will allow you to add different "repositories" and even personal archives (PPA's). Over time you'll likely use synaptic for browsing and apt-get for specific programs.

In other words, it's really not all that hard to install most software on Linux, at least until you start messing around with overnight builds and other bleeding edge stuff...


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KT4NR on April 20, 2014, 07:13:19 AM
Thanks. Didn't know if anyone had used the software before.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K5UNX on April 20, 2014, 08:11:34 AM
So I am looking at Linux for my XP boxes. Does it matter what build you get to run a program? You have mentioned several in this thread but I am unclear if I need to install Ubuntu and only look for Ubuntu FLDigi for example. Or can I get FLDigi and just run it on any build?

Separately, anyone know anything about this build? Found it googling.... http://shackbox.net ... Appears to be a ham centric build.

I downloaded shackbox and tried running it in a virtual machine. It had some errors and I didn't want to troubleshoot them. I run Linux VM's on my work laptop, and have been for years as the customer I support runs a lot of Linux and I need test machines. I am considering using Linux for my radio laptop as it's old and doesn't run Win 7 real well.  I would stick with a main stream distribution like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian etc. Then add the radio programs needed like car log and fldigi. They are available via the main stream repositories and are easy to install.  If I do this, I am going with Linux Mint as I don't care for the new Ubuntu interface and it's easier to just install Mint.



Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on April 27, 2014, 07:02:24 AM
All the talk about how Windows needs continual upgrades and is inherently unstable compared to Linux is hogwash.  I downloaded Linux Mint 16 Cinnamon a few days ago, went through the 'package checking' to be sure the download wasn't corrupted, and burned a DVD with it--also checked for errors with none found.

I ran the DVD on my main machine and Mint with Cinnamon worked beautifully--as I stated in another thread here--but when I actually installed it on a spare machine that Win 7 works well on then running it, the Cinnamon desktop crashes as soon as it starts--every time!

Come to find out that the 'major revision' of Cinnamon is flawed, and there is a work around that is published on the web. 

So, please, no more talk about how Linux is superior in every way to Windows because from that experience (that many people have had) it simply isn't.  It may well be better in some respects, but it shares the same generalized problems that Windows has--it is written and put together by human beings, and human beings aren't perfect to begin with! 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on April 27, 2014, 12:02:24 PM
To be fair about it, I downloaded and installed Linux Mint 16 with the Mate desktop, and it appears to run fine.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on April 27, 2014, 01:14:31 PM
To be fair about it, I downloaded and installed Linux Mint 16 with the Mate desktop, and it appears to run fine.

I use it myself.  I've never tried the Cinnamon version, but I have heard some horror stories about it.

And all operating systems need to be updated.  With Linux, updates will range from once a month to several per week.  But most are updates to apps, not the OS itself. 

And rarely does one have to reboot after an update -- almost always after a kernel update, but that's normally about it, and they're rather rare.  Mint's Update Manager and Slackware's 3rd-party Slapt-Get utility do not update the kernel by default, but most of the others do.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5PG on April 27, 2014, 10:10:22 PM
To be fair about it, I downloaded and installed Linux Mint 16 with the Mate desktop, and it appears to run fine.

As it does on my laptop and dual booted with XP on my Asus Netbook.

Just wish there was an N1MM Contest Logger equivalent on Linux ;D



Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K4TFJ on May 01, 2014, 06:07:34 PM
N5PG: I have heard others are using and I also briefly tried N1MM under Wine... it appeared to work, but I did not test it extensively.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9CLL on May 01, 2014, 09:46:24 PM
I have been running Mint with the KDE, mate and cinnamon desktops for a couple of years now. I can choose my desktop at startup and all run fine. I am a Linux user from way back and have been in IT for 30 years, no more Windows for me ever. My wife uses Linux, my sons PC has Linux and there is nothing they can't do. My wife teaches Microsoft apps at our local community collage and Office 2010 runs just fine under Wine.

Good bye M$ never to grace my door step again.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on May 03, 2014, 07:16:13 AM
I have been running Mint with the KDE, mate and cinnamon desktops for a couple of years now. I can choose my desktop at startup and all run fine....

The problem with the Cinnamon desktop started with the last major revision, I believe Cinnamon 2.

Quote
...I am a Linux user from way back and have been in IT for 30 years, no more Windows for me ever....

Agree with you.  At $100 a pop for the stripped down version--upgrade type to boot--Windows was too expensive.  Even the newer version (8) is priced high even though its cheaper.  Linux, on the other hand costs zip--AND you get programs included with it for most of the common needs.  With WINE or any good windows emulator, you can run windows programs--and that's good enough for me.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 03, 2014, 08:42:53 AM
There are a number of ham radio and Linux resources

 KB1OIQ - Andy's Ham Radio Linux
Ubuntu Linux remastered for Amateur Radio users
http://sourceforge.net/projects/kb1oiq-andysham/


Ham radio programs for linux platform
(Featuring 107 resources)
http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Software/Linux/


Amateur Radio Guide
A guide for users of Fedora amateur radio software
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Amateur_Radio_Guide/index.html


Linux In The Ham Shack Podcast!
http://lhspodcast.info/about/
http://lhspodcast.info/category/podcast-mp3/feed/


KF8GR Linux Ham Software Links
http://www.qsl.net/kf8gr/


Hamux - Ham Radio Packages for CentOS Linux
http://distro.ibiblio.org/hamux/


Distrowatch Top 100 Linux Distributions and lists newest releases
http://distrowatch.com/


Type  "ham radio linux" in the search box at Youtube



thanxs for the linxs,,links!!!

and;

"    
RE: Consider Linux
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 04:43:13 PM »
   
Reply with quoteQuote
I am using Linux in this right moment. There are lots of good reasons for using Linux: it doesn't hang, you have much more control over the processes you are using, it's elegant, logical, fast, consumes much less RAM and CPU and so on and so forth. The last and not the least its updates are much faster, it updates all the software installed and not just the OS, and the reboot is only required when the Kernel is updated.
I am using the Ubuntu "

Bye bye Windows Grin

i copied what applied to me especially by by windows. my linux lets me be an appliance op so i can focus on other stuff.
i just got tired of trying to be a master of computers. i had my fun years ago when it was a hobby thing,interfacing,programming.

i like how linux takes care of itself in a short time without telling me what to do / "do not turn off your comp"!! win updates take hours. why couldnt it do.  it while im sleeping! my w7 machine did updates without the net connection??
just for fun?!!

btw i still have an xp machine that wont boot a linux bootable cd. i set the cd as boot 1. it ignores it. again im not a nerd!!

i want to switch to linux on it soon soon but want the cd boot now.  i have a linux only unit using a 120 ssd, works great.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N1UKX on May 04, 2014, 04:12:11 AM


btw i still have an xp machine that wont boot a linux bootable cd. i set the cd as boot 1. it ignores it. again im not a nerd!!

i want to switch to linux on it soon soon but want the cd boot now.  i have a linux only unit using a 120 ssd, works great.


I had the "wont boot a linux bootable cd" problem myself with my older Lenovo laptop.  I solved it by using a bootable flash drive with Linux Mint on it...LL


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on May 04, 2014, 06:18:46 AM
Regarding the 'won't boot from CD' issue, some of the computers out there with recovery partitions on the hard drive instead of CDs/DVDs with the OS and associated software on them simply won't boot from the CD/DVD drive unless there are no boot files on the hard drive at all.  Dell for one is famous for that since they stopped shipping disks with their new computers.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 04, 2014, 10:45:09 PM
last posts good to know. i got away from here  and just found my way back. my ssd died on my linux unit and the hd in that unit has all the folders, it and my boot cd start out looking ancient, an old linux.
i posted details in the other forum but here i will also ask for help. i lost all files i had created because i "assumed" it was taken care of by the system since it worked so flawlessly. i dont really remember how the stuff got on the hd but it boots and looks old, not like 12.4 or 12.04 what ever i had!
hey, i got lazy,it worked so well i just used it and paid no attention. now im stuck and miss it,,,help, i truly am out of touch.

looking for step by step advice.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on May 04, 2014, 10:56:05 PM
Regarding the 'won't boot from CD' issue, some of the computers out there with recovery partitions on the hard drive instead of CDs/DVDs with the OS and associated software on them simply won't boot from the CD/DVD drive unless there are no boot files on the hard drive at all.  Dell for one is famous for that since they stopped shipping disks with their new computers.

I just installed Scientific Linux on such a Dell machine (a Dell model 15 laptop, IIRC). I resized the bootable Windows Vista partition (making a total of 4 partitions instead of 3). The trick was to go into the CMOS setup and change the boot order (there were two such settings), so it booted from the DVD drive first.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: AB2RC on May 05, 2014, 04:44:56 AM
I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.
That's the "rub". Instead of developing MS Windows based software, develop Linux based software. An unfortunate aspect with Linux development has been that MS Windows is pretty much universal, everyone has it.  Hopefully, the Linux market share will grow.

PS: Synaptic Package Manager has an "Amateur Radio" category. 
Minor disagreement here -
instead of developing for a specific platform, I would encourage ham software developers to work on developing more cross platform applications.

It is a bit more work upfront, but you open your user base to Windows, Linux & Macs. This way it makes it easier for your endusers to continue using your product if they decide to switch at sometime in the future.
 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KB2HSH on May 05, 2014, 05:13:09 AM
I would encourage Linux evangelists to spend some time making Linux attractive to general PC users.
That's the "rub". Instead of developing MS Windows based software, develop Linux based software. An unfortunate aspect with Linux development has been that MS Windows is pretty much universal, everyone has it.  Hopefully, the Linux market share will grow.

PS: Synaptic Package Manager has an "Amateur Radio" category. 
Minor disagreement here -
instead of developing for a specific platform, I would encourage ham software developers to work on developing more cross platform applications.

It is a bit more work upfront, but you open your user base to Windows, Linux & Macs. This way it makes it easier for your endusers to continue using your product if they decide to switch at sometime in the future.
 

fldigi is "like that" now.  I was using fldigi on the Mac Pro I had when I was married, and had my macros and buttons (config) saved and backed up.  When I installed fldigi on my Win 7 machine, importing the settings was a breeze.  Sure, it's not quite the same thing, but it's as close as it gets (IMO)...for now.

KB2HSH
Springbrook, NY


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: K1CJS on May 05, 2014, 06:50:28 AM
Regarding the 'won't boot from CD' issue, some of the computers out there with recovery partitions on the hard drive instead of CDs/DVDs with the OS and associated software on them simply won't boot from the CD/DVD drive unless there are no boot files on the hard drive at all.  Dell for one is famous for that since they stopped shipping disks with their new computers.

I just installed Scientific Linux on such a Dell machine (a Dell model 15 laptop, IIRC). I resized the bootable Windows Vista partition (making a total of 4 partitions instead of 3). The trick was to go into the CMOS setup and change the boot order (there were two such settings), so it booted from the DVD drive first.

In my experiences--sometimes even when that is done--the machine won't boot from the CD drive.  Could be that the timing was off, as in the CD drive was a replacement that didn't access as fast as the original did.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N1UKX on May 05, 2014, 06:58:32 AM
I had changed the boot order in the CMOS settings and it would not boot from the CD/DVD drive.  It does have a recovery partition on it though, so now I'm wondering if that was the problem.  The 'boot from flash drive' worked for me...LL


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 05, 2014, 07:28:44 AM
"resurection" of ssd!. last nite i reported a dead ssd in my linux unit. today after reconnecting it, it came to life . assume? the sata cable?
when i booted the cd or other hd, it came up fresh like day one with NOTHING i ever did or downloaded, no shortcuts,nothing. and,it looked ancient!like lin 10.10?, no mention of the 12.04 i was running? even the cd was supposed to be 12.04?
linux prior apparently saved nothing to the hd which had linux folders but none of my stuff.

lucky i got it back and copied by hand some folders to the hd from ssd,BUT i am told that i "do not own my machine"!!, that i do not have permission to back up to the hd??
i dont know enuf of linux, or backup in general , to do it right..

how to backup linux? from ssd to hd,big hd!


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W0BTU on May 05, 2014, 07:59:37 AM
i am told that i "do not own my machine"!!, that i do not have permission to back up to the hd??

You need to log in as root to copy some directories, such as /root, /usr, and /etc.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on May 05, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
lucky i got it back and copied by hand some folders to the hd from ssd,BUT i am told that i "do not own my machine"!!, that i do not have permission to back up to the hd??

Whoever told you that is 100% wrong.  You own your Linux machine far more than you do a Windows or (especially) an Apple box.  There is no "phoning home to the mothership" or a requirement that you sign into iTunes to copy your own music to/from your phone, for example.

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i dont know enuf of linux, or backup in general , to do it right..

Before taking the plunge, find an older PC -- something made within the last 5 years, with at least 2 Gb of RAM and a 160 Gb or larger hard drive -- install Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora (the easiest ones for newcomers -- whichever one you use is your own personal preference) and just play around with it.  There is a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it's really quite logical how everything goes together.  Kinda like how it was when we first got our ham licenses. ;D

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how to backup linux? from ssd to hd,big hd!

Things are different in Linux than in Windows.  One just cannot copy and/or move everything without permissions being properly set.  This is how Windows should be set up as well, but it isn't always.

One thing I always found useful is to keep a separate partition for /home (the user's own directories) and / (the root directory, essentially where the system stuff goes).  This is the equivalent to having your C: drive for the Windows system stuff and the program files, and a D: drive for your own personal directories and files (there are no drive letters in Linux). 

If your PC crashes, then you can still recover/back up your own files, then reinstall the Linux system if necessary (but don't reformat that /home drive when you do!  :o ).


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 05, 2014, 09:15:01 AM
what i meant was,when i attempt to do ,copy something,LINUX tells me i cant!! not someone!
how do i log in to get control?

and i have been using linux for abt 2-3 yrs on this machine booting the 120 g ssd and it has a 1 tb hd just sitting in,mt! but for linux folders.

i just cliked backup. got permission denied

error creating directory


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: N5EG on May 05, 2014, 01:00:39 PM
$ sudo bash

will give you a bash shell with root privileges.
Be very, very careful.

-- Tom, N5EG



Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 05, 2014, 04:28:26 PM
right now i want to ,need to stay out of danger,command line like stuff till i get back into that level.
this thing went back to dead this morn. it would boot cd and the empty screen,"old"look i mentioned.
i pulled the ssd and went to town. came back and plugged in the ssd and here i am, totally confused.

i haven't heard much about ssd and intermittents. dont like that word.

i really need to get the o sys on the hd and thumb drive.
i downloaded unebootin but cant open, do anything with it yet. dont know what it is.

i need to read more on it i guess.   i was spoiled by my flawless linux, till yesterday!!


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: VA3DUX on May 06, 2014, 04:42:32 PM

CQRlog allows rig control, and of course incorporates a full logbook, dxcluster, and much more.  Flrig is a full rig control program and integrates smoothly with all of the Fl* suite to allow digital modes (Fldigi), WINKey CW (Flwkey), and more. 

If you're looking for a replacement for HRD (for example), then HAMlib provides the radio control interface, via either CQRlog or Fldigi.  CQRlog can handle all of the tasks (at least most of the tasks) of HRD's rig control AND HRD's logbook while Fldigi is a superior replacement for DM780 for the digital enthusiast. CQRlog can also auto-import Fldigi's log so that task is automated. 

And all of these programs (and MANY more) are available via one-click install on Ubuntu/Linux Mint and other platforms.

I'm not sure what you're looking forward in terms of "full Radio Control" programs, but I'd hardly say there are "none" as you stipulate.

73

Dave
K3DCW


Hi Full Radio Control program, is what it is, full control for your particular radio, I am not talking about logging programs,digital,PSK, and many other of which there are many, which no doubt run well on Linux.

Ham Radio deluxe,  ARCS II - TS-2000 control, TRX-Manager,  HAM Radio CAT Software, Ultra Radio, along with many
other dedicated to a particular rig.

David VA3DUX 


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9WQA on May 10, 2014, 02:32:38 AM
just update, all is well again. linux is still the best machine i have!
i dont understand why it does sw updates routinely but im still on ubuntu 12.04, not 14.?
i realize im forgetting what i must have known when i started linux!


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KK4GGL on May 28, 2014, 02:46:33 PM
I've used Linux in the past, but I doubt any of the ham radio programs I'm using now have Linux versions, so that pretty much kills it for me.  :-\

Are there equivalents?


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KK4GGL on May 28, 2014, 03:04:14 PM

There's a reason Linux has continued to lag Windows success in the desktop environment, just like Ford Explorers beat kit car sales hands down.

Universal appeal and useability is not problem.


There are a few reasons, but the main one is the network effects of an illegally maintained monopoly.  Everybody wants what everyone else is using. Oh, well.  Take a look at markets where Microsoft does not hold monopoly power, such as cell phones and tablets. Android based phones lead in market share, while I believe Apple still leads in tablets.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: KK4GGL on May 28, 2014, 03:08:31 PM
MacOS is not unix and OS/X is a BSD variant.

My windows doesn't crash, but I have an iSCSI linux server that does.

Bloating has been in the Linux world for quite some time. That's the attraction Ubuntu had in the server world; you just install what you need.

You will find more QNX than Linux at NASA.

Android may be built on Linux, but the api and environment exposed is java front and centre.

'Just because' is never really a good reason.

Actually OS X is currently certified as Unix.

Installing only wanted/needed packages far pre-dates Ubuntu.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9CLL on May 28, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
Correct OSX is Unix as BSD is a Unix variant. All OS's crash at some point just Linux does it less than Windows. That being said my Netware 4.1 server has been up and running continuously for three years now.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: WW7KE on May 29, 2014, 08:30:20 PM
Take a look at markets where Microsoft does not hold monopoly power, such as cell phones and tablets. Android based phones lead in market share, while I believe Apple still leads in tablets.

Microsoft is practically a non-entity in the mobile device world.  And tablets are taking over the consumer space, although laptops with large hard drives and lots of RAM are still required for more serious applications.  I wouldn't want to run an office suite on a tablet, at least not yet.


Title: RE: Consider Linux
Post by: W9CLL on June 01, 2014, 08:33:21 PM
Micro$oft's Surface is slick hardware crippled by it's os.