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eHam Forums => Misc => Topic started by: WA2ISE on May 06, 2014, 02:02:36 PM



Title: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: WA2ISE on May 06, 2014, 02:02:36 PM
Now that I have my TS440SAT computer controlled, I can tune it in 1KHz steps, and more often than not, I don't need to fiddle with the hundreds and tens of HZ to get good reception of SSB signals.  Anyone else notice this?  Maybe many of us use computer control of our rigs.   


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: K0IZ on May 06, 2014, 04:56:32 PM
I've noticed the same thing.  When trying to work split DX, I usually go about 1/2 Khz.  Everyone else is on even.


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: KI6LZ on May 06, 2014, 05:43:41 PM
Three cardinal sins:

1.Zero beating on DX if he is operating simplex. Best to go up or down 25-125 Hz if his receiver BW is set to 250 Hz. Adjust range if his BW is greater.

2. Zero beating split on top of big gun stations, will hardly ever win.

3. Calling on frequency he's not listening to.


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: N8YX on May 07, 2014, 05:27:32 AM
It's merely the next step towards channelization of the voice portion of the bands.


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: N0IU on May 07, 2014, 06:23:02 AM
I don't think it has anything to do with computer control. I think it is more a result of newcomers to the HF bands not understanding that it is not "channelized" like FM on VHF/UHF. I have been told a number of times when I am not on a whole number that I am "off frequency".


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: W0WCA on May 07, 2014, 09:07:30 AM
Nah, it’s just more of a “human Nature” kind of thing.  It is simply more “organized” to call CQ or set up a sked on an even number like 14,257,000 than say 14,257,318.  While both are both perfectly acceptable, the latter just seems disorganized and grabasstic. 
In the old days of analog dials no one could tell where they were with the same degree of exactitude that we can now with our eight place digital readouts.  Of course I am always a bit suspicious of the exactitude of the last two digits . . .


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: KB4QAA on May 07, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
On an open band, sure, I'll center the dial on an even kc.  But, if I'm slipping in between two QSO's, then it is a matter of minimizing interference to both, and a matter of choosing the frequency by ear.

Now on receiving I work almost entirely by ear.  Zero beat CW contacts, and and SSB/AM by proper sound.  It makes no sense to arbitrarily round up/down to the nearest kc, and force yourself to undergo a contact knowing you are mistuned based on the assumption that your tuning dial is somehow magically connected to the other side.

We are blessed with remarkably stable transmitters/recievers, but just because a radio has a digital readout doesn't mean the numbers are absolutely accurate!

Dating myself as an old fogey, operating a 20 tube Heathkit SB-102 (with no RIT) as a Novice gave me an appreciation for drifting oscillators, and 'band markers' that were only available every 100kcs on the dial, which had to be constantly be touched-up as you tuned across the band.  The only 'absolutely' accurate reference was WWV or CHU.    

The fun really started when the other fellow had an equally drifty radio, which lead to 'skating' across the band as we chased each other.  :)  The RULE of driftiness:  The Calling Station should not retune (if the replying station gets too far off, advise him e.g. "Up 300hz, Down 450hz").  The Replying Station should adjust for any drift in the Calling Stations Tx.

Moral:  Don't ASS-U-ME that any rig is 100% accurate. Ever.


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: G3RZP on May 07, 2014, 11:42:18 PM
W0WCA said:

>Of course I am always a bit suspicious of the exactitude of the last two digits .<

In these days of digital readouts, so many people appear to have the belief that 'resolution' means 'accuracy'. Of course, it doesn't and never did. It's very similar to the mantra popular in management that 'change means progress', where too often, any progress is backwards!


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: WB2EOD on May 08, 2014, 07:32:21 AM
Seems that hams are a bit "obsessive" about frequency and time   :-)

WB2EOD


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: KF7CG on May 08, 2014, 10:41:38 AM
A great many of the newer operators, even given the test questions, do not know that 1. their signal has width, 2. their signal on SSB is definitely not where the dial says as it indicates carrier frequency not modulation product frequency, 3. that a station that tunes over a larger frequency span is not wide if the receiver filters have a poor shape factor, and again 4. no frequency is exact.

Being an operator of more that a few years, it tune for best sound when receiving or tune for what sounds to be the middle of an empty spot. Other than to avoid band and segment edges I don't worry about the exact frequency. I let the logging software take care of that. Some radios and software log to the nearest hertz while only displaying 10 Hz increments.


KF7CG


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: N7BMW on May 08, 2014, 12:54:14 PM
I have the frequency step on the M.ch/VFO.ch control on my Kenwood set to 1KHz.  It is a quick way to scan through the band or move to a different part of the band. 


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: K7KBN on May 08, 2014, 10:45:12 PM
W0WCA said:

>Of course I am always a bit suspicious of the exactitude of the last two digits .<

In these days of digital readouts, so many people appear to have the belief that 'resolution' means 'accuracy'. Of course, it doesn't and never did. It's very similar to the mantra popular in management that 'change means progress', where too often, any progress is backwards!

Since "pro..." and "con..." as prefixes are opposite in meaning, we here in the States generally refer to Progress as being the opposite of Congress.


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: WD8KNI on May 09, 2014, 06:24:20 AM
I was once calling CQ on 14.155500 the person who answered, told me "Just wanted to let you know you are off frequency"  I responded "No I checked my dial readout, and recently calibrated with WWV, and I am on the frequency I was calling CQ on"  He then proceeded to tell me "you are 400 hertz higher than you think".  again I said "No I checked my dial readout, and recently calibrated with WWV, and I am on the frequency I was calling CQ on" he then told me his rig was new, and that I was 400 hz higher than I should be.  I replied "I have 10,000 dollars worth of equipment here that says I am ½ hertz off the frequency my dial say, and that I was calling CQ on, which was good enough for me"  He responded, "I think I will send this radio back.."  I ended the conversation with a comment that he should return the radio, and do lots of research before he buys another one..

This is what we get when we dumb down the license requirement an Extra who thinks 20 meters is channelized, and thinks a radio should be returned because he doesn't know how to verify it's frequency accuracy, and give anyone who wants to pay a 1x2 call..

Recently I talked to a general who turned off all power in his house searching for a 20 db interferance signal on 14.300, he didn't know what a calibrator was or that his radio had on and it was turned on.

Regards.. Fred


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: G3RZP on May 09, 2014, 07:25:23 AM
Fred,

Back in the days when I did maritime radio design, while on a 'first fitting' of an SSB radio, I did once tell a UK Coast Station that he was off frequency! He tried another tx and that was fine.....But some said it was being a bit cheeky...


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: W8GP on May 09, 2014, 12:01:18 PM
Once, when someone told me my CQ "off frequency", I told them to close their eyes and tune me in until I sounded natural. They STILL didn't get it!


Title: RE: Looks like hams select operating frequencies in whole kilohertz's
Post by: KB2WIG on May 09, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
Well, watt I do is to  zero beat my Icom to my  LM 21, and I'm never off my frequency.


klc