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eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: BOJANY on June 01, 2014, 12:58:12 PM



Title: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: BOJANY on June 01, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Hi all.

As a new ham mainly interested in CW (currently doing 20-25 wpm) I am looking for a first rig. I am thinking of new TS-480 with CW+SSB filters but for the same price I can have used TS-2000. What do you thing would be more competent rig?

Tnx, B


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: W8JX on June 01, 2014, 01:51:22 PM
Hi all.

As a new ham mainly interested in CW (currently doing 20-25 wpm) I am looking for a first rig. I am thinking of new TS-480 with CW+SSB filters but for the same price I can have used TS-2000. What do you thing would be more competent rig?

Tnx, B

The 480 with optional filters is a much better rig than 2000 which uses very primitive and dated DSP. I own a 480 with 1.9kc SSB and 500hz CW filters installed and can vouch for its performance. I would suggest 500 vs 270hz filter because 500 works well for RTTY, Olivia, Domino and a few other modes. Also the filters have steep skirts and 500 is 60db down at 900hz width unlike some DSP that looks good at 500hz but is 2kc or more wide at only 50db down


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: AA4N on June 01, 2014, 07:23:44 PM
I think the DSP on both of those rigs is of the audio variety.  Honestly, for CW work, I would want a 500Hz filter on either one.  So, if the choice is 480 with filter or 2k without, I'd go with the 480.

Cheers

Mike


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: N6PG on June 01, 2014, 09:41:24 PM
Why not the TS-590S? The TS-590 has a better DSP, so you don't need to buy the filter extra.  The DSP is on the IF, and the receiver is superior.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: G4AON on June 02, 2014, 01:03:19 AM
I use a TS480SAT with a 500 Hz CW filter, it's quite good but the remote head unit is not to everyone's taste. Mine is mostly used "car portable", where the separate head unit is ideal.

At home the '480 never gets used. I am mostly a CW operator and prefer either my Elecraft K3 or home made separates. Elecraft or Ten Tec are the radios of choice for many dedicated CW operators, most other makes seem to favour SSB with CW a secondary consideration.

73 Dave


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: BOJANY on June 02, 2014, 07:39:23 AM
Tnx all for your input and opinion.
It seems to me that according to experience you have and the price range my XYL established, the TS-480 is the rig for me :)
I'd love to have the TS-590 but on the other hand it's 30% over my budget.

Thank you all again and vy 73 de S59GI - hope to hear you all on the band.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: K8AXW on June 02, 2014, 08:22:12 AM
Consider, 30% over your budget...... understandable, but you'll be doing thing only once!  30% is much less than half again over budget....... worthy of serious consideration.  Peanut butter sandwiches ARE food......

I turned down buying an almost new, full-dressed Harley, that was worth $18,000 because the $9,000 he wanted was slightly "over-budget."  I still look for a puke bucket every time I think of that one!



Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: AG6WT on June 02, 2014, 06:08:00 PM
Tnx all for your input and opinion.
It seems to me that according to experience you have and the price range my XYL established, the TS-480 is the rig for me :)
I'd love to have the TS-590 but on the other hand it's 30% over my budget.

Thank you all again and vy 73 de S59GI - hope to hear you all on the band.

When comparing the cost between the TS-480 and TS-590 are you including the extra cost for the optional CW and SSB filter for the TS-480?  Your are looking to spend an additional $250 for the two filters and even then once installed they are fixed bandwidth vs the TS-590's variable band width.  Furthermore the TS-590 has very effective roofing filters which I am almost sure the TS-480 doesn't have.  The TS-590 is a very good buy if you can stretch a little. However, if you capped at around $1000, a TS-480 is the one to get. Even without the optional filters, the built-in AF filters are very effective.

Ray AG6WT


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: K3STX on June 03, 2014, 09:56:36 AM
I'll bet you can get a gently used TS-590S for the price of the other rigs NEW. The TS-590S is a great rig, probably the last one you will ever "need" to buy. I have one, love it.

paul


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: WB2KSP on June 03, 2014, 10:06:15 AM
I've owned the 590 since December 2011. The price has dropped on new 590's and used are also available. The 590 can be updated by installing new firmware.  With either radio you'll need to purchase a power supply, if you intend to use it at home. I chose a Astron supply. First, because Aston supplies are a proven winner and second but to me even more important, the matching Kenwood supply for the 590 is a switching unit and the Astron I bought (RS-35M) is a linear supply and barely gets warm even when it's being used under contest conditions. There are no fans so the supply is silent.

The Kenwood is being sold at $1,435 new and used they're going for $1250. On the other hand the 480 is about $1,000 and can be had in a 200 watts version. I had fixed filters in my old 430 (I used a 400 hz CW filter, not the 500 Hz kenwood filter) and I worked many stations with it. My current 590 is set to 400 Hz for wide CW and 80 Hz for narrow and there are times that the narrow filtering makes a major difference if you want to find clear spaces to work stations (DXPeditions) on a crowded band.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: WB2WIK on June 03, 2014, 10:34:12 AM
The OP is in Slovenia.

Hard to tell what's available there, or how much it costs; but my experience has been that "everything" ham radio related costs more there than it does here in the U.S.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: K8AC on June 03, 2014, 01:16:05 PM
If you're primarily a CW operator, I recommend getting both a 500 and 270 Hz filter.  Never felt the need for a narrower SSB filter on the 480.  Overall, the 480 makes for a very nice CW rig.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: W8JX on June 04, 2014, 06:19:37 AM
Why not the TS-590S? The TS-590 has a better DSP, so you don't need to buy the filter extra.  The DSP is on the IF, and the receiver is superior.

I have played 480 and 590 side by side and there is no big real world difference between the receivers so not big edge here. If you have 500 hz filter in 480 it can keep up with 590 pretty much and it has a remote head which 590 does not. The 590 is a good rig but it just not much of a upgrade over 480 like it is over 570. 


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: W8JX on June 04, 2014, 06:23:38 AM
If you're primarily a CW operator, I recommend getting both a 500 and 270 Hz filter.  Never felt the need for a narrower SSB filter on the 480.  Overall, the 480 makes for a very nice CW rig.

I used my narrow SSB filter on 480 a lot. The 500hz has tight skirts (tighter at 60db down than pre 480 kenwood 270 hz filters) and is enough 99% of time when used with auto tune and AF DSP


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: BOJANY on June 04, 2014, 09:04:36 AM
Wow! What a response  :o

Thank you all for your suggestions. Of course I can understand all the talking about TS-590 etc. and I can agree about buying only once, however as WB2WIK kindly pointed out I am from S5 and there is not much choice on used market and prices are much higher (ieg. 2045USD for TS-590) than in USA. I've seen only one TS590 on used market :) in our country.
I was asking because there is a chance to get a TS-2000 for around 1300USD or buy new TS-480 for the same amount but with CW and SSB filters included.
From all comments I still believe the TS-480 is the way to go for me, so tnx again es 73 de S59GI.


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: ZS6DX on June 23, 2014, 09:57:07 AM
I think the TS-2000 has one of the worst HF receivers Kenwood ever made! It is an ok VHF/UHF radio with HF functionality added as an after thought......

I was given 2 to test during a CQ WW CW contest and I hated the receivers, they have bad selectivity on a busy and noisy band and are really prone to front-end overload!

73, Rudi de ZS6DX/V51VE


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: WA7PRC on June 23, 2014, 11:27:04 AM
Whatever rig you wind-up with, consider the InRad (http://www.inrad.net/) IF filters.  They typically have
steeper skirts than OEM filters.  Some have more ultimate rejection than OEM filters.
Cost is typically approximately equal to OEM filters.

I recently purchased two of their "roofing" filters (73.05 MHz 1st IF) to load into my two
TS850SAT rigs.  I have one installed, and it made a HUGE difference in rejecting QRM.
Note the difference in bandwidth and slope rate (aka "shape factor"):
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14304500737_78ae4f28a3.jpg)

I've been collecting filters for the lower two IFs and will swap those when I have all that I want.  :)

vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: NI8R on June 23, 2014, 04:22:43 PM
I have not many hams that can work 20-25wpm cw before there first rig, so what's the secret?
That speed is a privilege for the well experienced and I am curious how do you get there?


Greg kc8iir


Title: RE: TS-480 or TS-2000 for CW
Post by: K7KBN on June 23, 2014, 05:09:51 PM
I have not many hams that can work 20-25wpm cw before there first rig, so what's the secret?
That speed is a privilege for the well experienced and I am curious how do you get there?
Greg kc8iir

Someone visiting New York City supposedly asked "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?", to which a dozen passersby replied:  "Practice!"