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eHam Forums => Computers And Software => Topic started by: KA5PIU on June 06, 2014, 04:02:16 AM



Title: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 06, 2014, 04:02:16 AM
Hello.

The tech industry lags behind about 3/4 years, that is to say the latest CPU was started a few years back.
The same is with video game consoles.
So,one thing that did happen with the global economic meltdown is the scaling back.
It was the latest laptop was where it was at.
Now, the hip generation does it all on phones with tablets picking up.
So, here is the question.
We know what happened and why.
But do you think this is a permanent change?
Is the era of the super laptop going to go way of the 8 track and 45 record?
Or, do you think the next killer laptop is just waiting to happen?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 06, 2014, 04:58:59 AM
The laptop will go the way of the netbook and dodo bird. OK let me refine this a bit, the older generation like myself will still want/use a full laptop but the younger gen is moving quickly away from them to all in one devices. I have been in IT for 25 years and have seen this trend happening more and more.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 06, 2014, 05:59:30 AM
The laptop will go the way of the netbook and dodo bird. OK let me refine this a bit, the older generation like myself will still want/use a full laptop but the younger gen is moving quickly away from them to all in one devices. I have been in IT for 25 years and have seen this trend happening more and more.

Laptops will be here for some time yet. I will have a touch screen too but it is going nowhere. The desktop is in trouble. On netbook, it never really died and is still around only called slim lines or ultra lites with more power. I still use them today. As far as full laptop, I prefer 14 inch not 15 or bigger. 


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 06, 2014, 06:44:13 AM
While I like my tablet (iPad), I could not go fulltime to it yet. I know a lot of people that could. My mother who is in her 70's does Facebook and email and switched to a iPad and has not used her laptop since she bought iPad. So for some users, yes they can use a tablet and be fine.

I have 180GB of data on my laptop, music, digital photos, documents etc. While someday I could ditch the music and just get a streaming service, the digital photos of my kids, documents, etc are things that I can't lose. So simply storing all that is an issue. I could solve that with an online storage provider of some sort.

By the time you add a bluetooth keyboard to a tablet, you basically have the form factor of a slim laptop.  I think laptops will be around for much longer.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 06, 2014, 06:47:46 AM
iPads, iPhones, smart phones, tablets are convenient and that is their greatest strength. For basic, Email,  Internet tasks, Text and Video Chat without having wait for the device to boot up  they can't be beat. And that is where the comparison ends and there are drawbacks.

The drawbacks include

#1. No USB port on the iPhone and iPad.

#2. No user battery replacement for iPhone and iPad
http://www.cnet.com/news/when-your-ipad-battery-dies-dig-out-99-plus/

#3. No Mouse

#4. Very small screen

#5. Difficult to impossible do some serious work on.

Touchscreens might be fine for tablets and phones, but they don't belong on desktop monitors. Especially expensive large home monitors, with smudges on the screen really looks like crap.

To get everything else done a desktop or traditional laptop is still needed. I cannot fathom some architect trying to design a building, some CPA doing serious financial spreadsheets, stock market traders, or someone doing video or audio work on an iPad or iPhone. Netbooks might go away, traditional laptops and desktops will still be around for some time to come especially in the corporate world.

.

.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 06, 2014, 06:56:16 AM
I have never wanted to use a USB anything on my iPad. Don't miss a USB port at all. Dropbox works just fine. I think USB thumbdrives are becoming less useful with the growth of online storage services like Dropbox, Box.net, iCloud, etc. I didn't say not useful . . . I used to carry on around a lot. Don't anymore due to having dropbox on my tablet, phones, computers etc.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 06, 2014, 07:48:01 AM
I have never wanted to use a USB anything on my iPad. Don't miss a USB port at all. Dropbox works just fine. I think USB thumbdrives are becoming less useful with the growth of online storage services like Dropbox, Box.net, iCloud, etc. I didn't say not useful . . . I used to carry on around a lot. Don't anymore due to having dropbox on my tablet, phones, computers etc.

You do no miss it because you have never used it. Apple is REAL bad about USB and memory cards that are cheap and part of life today. The want to charge you 200 more for a extra 48 meg in a phone with a 64gig micro SD can be had on sale for 30 or so. Its all about the drinking the koolaid. Driod tablets are much more capable and MS surface tablets have always had a full sized USB port and will see a cordless mouse automatically too. Then there is printing to any wireless printer from your tablet or phone. With Window phone or tablet its a breeze and with Andriod it is not too hard and with Apple a lost cause without apple add ons for $$$. Yep its all about the Apple kooliad. As long as you keep drinking it look great and you buy more. One day you will sober up though and see the light.

To put this into better perspective, MS and Driod work with existing standards for printing, USB, memory cards etc while Apple wants you to use their standard only which is far more profitable for them and locks you deeper in their trap.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 06, 2014, 08:02:33 AM
All our relatives have iPads and/or iPhones yet none of them ever bought a Mac Computer. And probably never Will.  I do have a G3 Power Mac which I got used several years ago, but it is sitting in storage. I ran Linux on it for awhile. I once had an Android phone, the damned thing would often lock up and freeze.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 06, 2014, 08:07:28 AM
I have never wanted to use a USB anything on my iPad. Don't miss a USB port at all. Dropbox works just fine. I think USB thumbdrives are becoming less useful with the growth of online storage services like Dropbox, Box.net, iCloud, etc. I didn't say not useful . . . I used to carry on around a lot. Don't anymore due to having dropbox on my tablet, phones, computers etc.

You do no miss it because you have never used it. Apple is REAL bad about USB and memory cards that are cheap and part of life today. The want to charge you 200 more for a extra 48 meg in a phone with a 64gig micro SD can be had on sale for 30 or so. Its all about the drinking the koolaid. Driod tablets are much more capable and MS surface tablets have always had a full sized USB port and will see a cordless mouse automatically too. Then there is printing to any wireless printer from your tablet or phone. With Window phone or tablet its a breeze and with Andriod it is not too hard and with Apple a lost cause without apple add ons for $$$. Yep its all about the Apple kooliad. As long as you keep drinking it look great and you buy more. One day you will sober up though and see the light.

Never needed to have a USB port on the iPad for anything. Why would I need one? To get some file onto the iPad from a computer? There are several ways to do that over the network, Dropbox being the easiest. Why mess with USB drives? I hardly use USB drives on my computers anymore. The only one I use is a 500GB one for backups just because of the capacity and speed.

You mention printing? I can print just fine using the iPad to two different HP printers at my house. No extra Apple gear or software required. Also no need for a mouse on a tablet with a touch screen.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 06, 2014, 09:16:14 AM
Never needed to have a USB port on the iPad for anything. Why would I need one? To get some file onto the iPad from a computer? There are several ways to do that over the network, Dropbox being the easiest. Why mess with USB drives? I hardly use USB drives on my computers anymore. The only one I use is a 500GB one for backups just because of the capacity and speed.

See you actually NEED a USB and get around it saying I will use a computers USB then transfer to drop box then to Ipad. So inefficient. What happens when not home? The whole purpose of a PROPER tablet is that you do not need a computer to upload data to it duh. Really dump not to have one but it is the apple mentality at corporate.

You mention printing? I can print just fine using the iPad to two different HP printers at my house. No extra Apple gear or software required. Also no need for a mouse on a tablet with a touch screen.

If they are apple ready and support Apples protocol. Nothing special needed for MS or Driod. As far as need for mouse I have used one a few times for far more precision than a finger. MS and Driod support higher accuracy inputs not Apple with out spending big $$$$. 


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 06, 2014, 10:00:37 AM
See you actually NEED a USB and get around it saying I will use a computers USB then transfer to drop box then to Ipad. So inefficient. What happens when not home? The whole purpose of a PROPER tablet is that you do not need a computer to upload data to it duh. Really dump not to have one but it is the apple mentality at corporate.

If they are apple ready and support Apples protocol. Nothing special needed for MS or Driod. As far as need for mouse I have used one a few times for far more precision than a finger. MS and Driod support higher accuracy inputs not Apple with out spending big $$$$. 

Printing: The HP printers support AirPrint which most printers support now days. Before I got the printer with the AirPrint built in, I as still able to print anything. It's not that hard. Without eprint, I can email things to the printer and they print.

I don't NEED USB nor a computer to get a file onto the iPad. It sounds like you think some file starts on the USB drive. I don't use USB drives for storage. They are just used to move things from one computer to another or to give someone a file on. But that is rare, email, dropbox take care of that. The computer comment assumes there is a file on a computer that I want on my iPad . . Hence transfer to USB then to wherever. Or move it to dropbox. Now if there is a file on a website, say a PDF file of some antenna plans for me to build. I simply download it straight to the iPad. No computer needed.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 06, 2014, 12:34:59 PM
Hello.

The newer devices can do Bluetooth or WiFi, and I am happy with that.
A Bluetooth to serial adapter has proven to be the way to go.
And, as was pointed out, printing is not a problem.
With that said, the parallel and serial and PS/2 ports are all gone on modern computers as well.
Wireless Bluetooth mice and keyboards do exist, and work well.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 06, 2014, 01:01:51 PM
Hello.

The newer devices can do Bluetooth or WiFi, and I am happy with that.
A Bluetooth to serial adapter has proven to be the way to go.
And, as was pointed out, printing is not a problem.
With that said, the parallel and serial and PS/2 ports are all gone on modern computers as well.
Wireless Bluetooth mice and keyboards do exist, and work well.

Serial ports are still needed for older legacy programs to program LMR radios. And some of those programs operate on DOS. The software for programming the Icom M710 runs on DOS and I think that radio is still being sold new.  Despite all the great modern technology today, I suggest just having at least one older computer around in case a serial port is needed for some occasional purpose.

.
.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: N5INP on June 06, 2014, 03:12:16 PM
Or, do you think the next killer laptop is just waiting to happen?

I don't think so, not in the sense you are inferring. We're moving towards A.I. more and more as the research finally bears fruit. In the next ten years you'll probably, finally, be able to talk in natural language to your "computer", and have it just do whatever you tell it to do, and be able to reliably ask you questions if the instructions are confusing or illogical.

No, we're not going to have to type on keyboards, it's simply a matter of time now.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KF6QEX on June 06, 2014, 05:21:59 PM
For anyone that has used a full size keyboard, connected to a fast desktop with two or three or four monitors, any laptop or mobile screen device is a temporary convenience solution when traveling or otherwise being away from the fast desktop with a full size keyboard and two or three or four monitors.
Sales of anything will be directed by which hardware peddler has the better marketing people .Right now they are i(samsung) in the process of convincing everyone that a "phone" that is almost the size of an iPad mini is a phone.
So they have taken over a large section of Best buy.
Microsoft is trying to peddle the surface.
And all I want is more and bigger screens for my fast desktops!!!


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 06, 2014, 07:52:33 PM
In all reality this disscussion is pointless among hams, we are by our nature techie so we like our laptops and desktops. The general public doesn't care about USB ports, fast desktops with many monitors, they want ease of use and portibity. The laptop is dead.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 06, 2014, 08:32:32 PM
In all reality this disscussion is pointless among hams, we are by our nature techie so we like our laptops and desktops. The general public doesn't care about USB ports, fast desktops with many monitors, they want ease of use and portibity. The laptop is dead.

You are talking to wrong public because USB is still important and laptop far from dead. It is desktop computers that's on life support. I rarely use mine it is a laptop plugged into a large display and remote key board I use for a main system now that I can grab laptop take it with me when I travel.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 06, 2014, 10:05:19 PM
In all reality this disscussion is pointless among hams, we are by our nature techie so we like our laptops and desktops. The general public doesn't care about USB ports, fast desktops with many monitors, they want ease of use and portibity. The laptop is dead.

You are talking to wrong public because USB is still important and laptop far from dead. It is desktop computers that's on life support. I rarely use mine it is a laptop plugged into a large display and remote key board I use for a main system now that I can grab laptop take it with me when I travel.
And what public are you talking about? What are they going to plug in? Everything is in the "device" nowadays. Don't think like a ham here.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 07, 2014, 04:08:40 AM
In all reality this disscussion is pointless among hams, we are by our nature techie so we like our laptops and desktops. The general public doesn't care about USB ports, fast desktops with many monitors, they want ease of use and portibity. The laptop is dead.

You are talking to wrong public because USB is still important and laptop far from dead. It is desktop computers that's on life support. I rarely use mine it is a laptop plugged into a large display and remote key board I use for a main system now that I can grab laptop take it with me when I travel.

And what public are you talking about? What are they going to plug in? Everything is in the "device" nowadays. Don't think like a ham here.

When I flew to San Fransisco last month there was people using laptops all over airport waiting areas and many on plane. it is far from dead. I use a add on 22 inch monitor and remote keyboard and mouse because I like a bigger screen for work at home yet I can take laptop with me.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 07, 2014, 06:00:17 AM
I am not trying to argue the point, yes people are still using laptops but they are declining in sales. At the firm I am with we have a lot of mobile users, most have turned in their LT's for high end tablets. The shift is happening, its not main stream yet but will be. As for plug in devices? Everything is going wireless, you no longer need the "cable". As I said before we are hams and techies, we are different so the general public rules don't apply. I am typing this on my tablet, sure I could have powered up my LT but why, this works for what I need. Oh and the question to the desktop going away quicker, I agree in the home users world but not in the corperate realm.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 07, 2014, 06:22:10 AM
I am not trying to argue the point, yes people are still using laptops but they are declining in sales. At the firm I am with we have a lot of mobile users, most have turned in their LT's for high end tablets. The shift is happening, its not main stream yet but will be. As for plug in devices? Everything is going wireless, you no longer need the "cable". As I said before we are hams and techies, we are different so the general public rules don't apply. I am typing this on my tablet, sure I could have powered up my LT but why, this works for what I need. Oh and the question to the desktop going away quicker, I agree in the home users world but not in the corperate realm.

This is why Win 8x is what it is. Things are changing and 7 has not role in it. I can use my WIN RT tablet and things I do can be seen on WIN 8 laptop. People jumping through hoops to avoid 8 are screwing themselves long term. We went thru the DOS to Windoze change about 20 years ago. Now we are on the cusp of another big change. 


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 07, 2014, 08:55:40 AM
People jumping through hoops to avoid 8 are screwing themselves long term.

Consumers do not want Windows 8 and neither does the Corporate World. Windows 8 is not popular.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 07, 2014, 09:36:37 AM
People jumping through hoops to avoid 8 are screwing themselves long term.

Consumers do not want Windows 8 and neither does the Corporate World. Windows 8 is not popular.

More 'JX horn blowing for Microsoft?  Seems to be.

But....  It isn't Windows 8 that people don't want--it's the 'metro' interface.  That's one of the reasons 8.1 was brought out right after 8 was introduced.  It's no doubt that Microsoft isn't going to 'go away' because of W8 or 8.1, but Microsoft had lost a great deal of sales once the word of the way W8 worked got around.

I still think that Microsoft is going to 'bring back' the interface of W7 when Windows 9 comes out, and the Metro interface is just going to be soon forgotten, just as the fiasco called Windows Vista was.  Having a general purpose desktop system running off a touchscreen (the main reason the Metro interface was developed and introduced) just isn't going to work for the average Joe who still wants a traditional desktop computer system.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: AA4PB on June 07, 2014, 09:46:46 AM
I don't understand why Vista was a fiasco. I had a Dell Vista machine with dual monitors that I used every day at work primarily for software development and I never had an issue with it. It was still working when I retired.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 07, 2014, 01:19:47 PM
More 'JX horn blowing for Microsoft?  Seems to be.

But....  It isn't Windows 8 that people don't want--it's the 'metro' interface.  That's one of the reasons 8.1 was brought out right after 8 was introduced.  It's no doubt that Microsoft isn't going to 'go away' because of W8 or 8.1, but Microsoft had lost a great deal of sales once the word of the way W8 worked got around.

I still think that Microsoft is going to 'bring back' the interface of W7 when Windows 9 comes out, and the Metro interface is just going to be soon forgotten, just as the fiasco called Windows Vista was.  Having a general purpose desktop system running off a touchscreen (the main reason the Metro interface was developed and introduced) just isn't going to work for the average Joe who still wants a traditional desktop computer system.

Windows 8.1 does not get rid of the Metro interface. I have been using Win 8 and 8.1 full-time at work for the last four months so I have hands-on experience with both. With either, you don't use the Metro interface, unless you want to. The start tiled screen, while looking like Metro, is the only thing you would see. That's actually faster than the old Win 7 start button. The biggest thing I see from 8 to 8.1 is a start button in the lower left corner for the people that whine about not having the start button. I never use the start/windows icon/button. It's easier to just touch the Windows key to the left of the space bar. I use Outlook, Word, Excel, Putty, VMware tools, IE, Chrome, and other apps. None of them are Metro apps. I never see a Metro interface.

I hear this "I hate Metro" talk from people that have never used Win 8 or 8.1. I don't count walking up to a computer in Best Buy and seeing Metro at the same as someone who uses it on a daily basis.

The whole "I hate Win 8 because of Metro" argument has to be one of the most un-informed arguments out there.

Overall I like Win 8.1 better than Win 7.  It feel quicker on the same PC I was using Win 7 on. Don't bother calling me a MS fanboy, I am writing this on a Mac. If I had a choice at work I would use Mac OSX.

As far as corporations not using Win 8.x . . . That's crap. I work for a company with 300K employees. I am on the early adopter program for Laptop operating systems in the company. I got Win 7 before everyone and have been on Win 8/8.1 before everyone. We're just getting ready to turn 8.1 over to full-time approved support with a company 8,1 image. XP & Vista are no longer supported internally by IT.

I doubt MS will bring back a Win 7 interface for Win 9. I would bet we'll see more forward motion. More touch interfacing. MS will move forward, not backwards. But I also think more online services. Look at Apples WWDC announcements. More online services, more mobile friendly, more being able to move from device to device. MS will follow suit I bet in some form. Look at Office 365 and the free tools valuable now.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 07, 2014, 01:48:18 PM
I don't understand why Vista was a fiasco. I had a Dell Vista machine with dual monitors that I used every day at work primarily for software development and I never had an issue with it. It was still working when I retired.


Vista was a poor replacement for a good portion of existing machines that ran Windows XP

A lot of low end corporate machines XP machines could not run Vista properly or at all. The requirements for Vista were too high. Before Vista was introduced, 512 MB Ram was considered the normal Ram for a new computer. Higher XP machines did have 2 GB Ram, but that was not the average.

My company had many low end XP machines with 256 MB Ram and 1.7 GB speed. No way Vista would have ran on those machines. The company wasn't going to pay for upgrades and then pay a new license for Vista. Buying new machines just to run Vista was not in the company's plans.

Many programs that our company used would only run on XP machines. Some programs were written for Vista later on after Vista was out for awhile but
the company was not going to spring for new Vista machines and also was not going to buy new software that would run under Vista.

I suspect that our company was very typical of other companies that had plans in force on not to buy new machines unless one machine was not repairable and even then, the new machine would only run XP.

Driver issues. Sure they were eventually ironed out, but that was one of it's biggest issues when Vista was first released according to some IT experts.

Vista's UAC was another sore point.


In case one thinks I am exaggerating about the machines on the market and used in the workplace at the time....Microsoft admitted that only 20 to 30% of the systems on the market would qualify for a  "Vista Ready" by the Spring of 2006.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/03/the-vista-capable-debacle-intel-pushes-microsoft-bends/


Then we have the  infamous "Vista Capable" label which is different from "Vista Ready" and that came back and bit them.

http://www.crn.com/slide-shows/channel-programs/206905984/tracing-microsofts-vista-capable-debacle.htm

"Microsoft pushed through OEM resistance and the confusion of its own executives to brand thousands of PCs with the logo of an operating system the computers were not capable of running smoothly without major hardware upgrades."

All this lead to the launch and acceptance of Vista as a fiasco and a mistake that hurt Microsoft. Some equated Vista with Windows ME. And years later we look back and see that was an unfair comparison.

Suffice to say by the time of the release of Vista SP2, the critics settled down some. And it turned out that was an OK operating system after a lot of issues were finally ironed out.

We can look back and say fondly, at least Vista  had a pretty much normal GUI. Unlike Windows 8 with it's Metro theme.
.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: AA4PB on June 07, 2014, 02:03:30 PM
"Vista was a poor replacement for a good portion of existing machines that ran Windows XP"

We didn't attempt to upgrade any old XP machines to Vista. We purchased new high-end machines that already had Vista installed on them. They worked out of the box and I never had any problems with them.




Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 07, 2014, 02:48:01 PM
"Vista was a poor replacement for a good portion of existing machines that ran Windows XP"

We didn't attempt to upgrade any old XP machines to Vista. We purchased new high-end machines that already had Vista installed on them. They worked out of the box and I never had any problems with them.


Vista required newer compatible cheap sets and was not a good XP upgrade. 7 needs better to but it detects and disables Chipset features not supported when you upgrade to 7.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 07, 2014, 07:34:01 PM
Windows 8.1 does not get rid of the Metro interface.

I never said it did.

Quote
I have been using Win 8 and 8.1 full-time at work for the last four months so I have hands-on experience with both. With either, you don't use the Metro interface, unless you want to. The start tiled screen, while looking like Metro, is the only thing you would see....

That's the metro interface--the user's interaction screen with the OS.

And that's what I meant.  Win 8.1 restored the start button, which was what I was referring to.  No matter if the 'new' start screen was faster, there was too many people who just didn't like it and who wanted that start button back--because that's what they were used to.  That's why it was restorred.

BTW, If you didn't beta test Win 8 (I did) then you don't know what was contemplated for the OS.  There were many changes made from the beta version to the release version of Win 8--but Microsoft still blew it by trying to have both a traditional OS and a touchscreen OS at the same time.  That's why Win 8 isn't selling--even now with Win 8.1--except for installation in newer machines.  That's why Win 7 is still being offered, although at a higher price by some manufacturers--because that is what the people want. 

In short, that's why Win 8 AND Win 8.1 both was and is such a flop.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 07, 2014, 08:54:28 PM
Windows 8.1 does not get rid of the Metro interface.

I never said it did.

Quote
I have been using Win 8 and 8.1 full-time at work for the last four months so I have hands-on experience with both. With either, you don't use the Metro interface, unless you want to. The start tiled screen, while looking like Metro, is the only thing you would see....

That's the metro interface--the user's interaction screen with the OS.

And that's what I meant.  Win 8.1 restored the start button, which was what I was referring to.  No matter if the 'new' start screen was faster, there was too many people who just didn't like it and who wanted that start button back--because that's what they were used to.  That's why it was restorred.

BTW, If you didn't beta test Win 8 (I did) then you don't know what was contemplated for the OS.  There were many changes made from the beta version to the release version of Win 8--but Microsoft still blew it by trying to have both a traditional OS and a touchscreen OS at the same time.  That's why Win 8 isn't selling--even now with Win 8.1--except for installation in newer machines.  That's why Win 7 is still being offered, although at a higher price by some manufacturers--because that is what the people want. 

In short, that's why Win 8 AND Win 8.1 both was and is such a flop.

The start screen is the only "Metro" looking thing I ever see. Everything else looks like regular Windows that we're used to.

The restored start button in 8.1 does not bring back the old start menu structure. It still takes you to the new start screen.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 08, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
The start screen is the only "Metro" looking thing I ever see. Everything else looks like regular Windows that we're used to.

The restored start button in 8.1 does not bring back the old start menu structure. It still takes you to the new start screen.

Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth--or trying to interpret my thoughts?  

First, Windows is Windows.  Win 8 is a new, different version--that is all.  Of course once you get into the application everything looks like the Windows we're used to.  It wouldn't be Windows if it didn't.  It's the user interface that's been changed--and THAT is the bone in many people's throats.

And I never said that the start button brings back the old menu structure--I only said that people wanted the start button back, and Win 8.1 did that.  A thousand pardons if you didn't understand--maybe I didn't express my thoughts plainly enough.

In any event, this picking of nits isn't doing anyone a service, and I'll not continue it.  73.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 08, 2014, 09:02:24 AM

Microsoft could have avoided this whole mess (and this thread) by allowing the user to choose between the Classic user interface and Metro anytime they want. Just log out and switch to another interface!

Good Lord with Microsoft's money and talent pool one would think they would have figured there might be some issues with public and corporate acceptance before unleashing this cluster fuss to the public and allowing the user to choose at will would be the best option for all.

With Linux one can choose between different types of user Interfaces, so why can't Microsoft get it done?

.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 08, 2014, 09:45:15 AM

Microsoft could have avoided this whole mess (and this thread) by allowing the user to choose between the Classic user interface and Metro anytime they want. Just log out and switch to another interface!

Good Lord with Microsoft's money and talent pool one would think they would have figured there might be some issues with public and corporate acceptance before unleashing this cluster fuss to the public and allowing the user to choose at will would be the best option for all.

With Linux one can choose between different types of user Interfaces, so why can't Microsoft get it done?

.
Because M$ does not want you to choose.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 08, 2014, 11:10:01 AM
Hello.

Someone pointed out that Linux does not do as much as Windows X.
Well, Open Office is available with Linux.
You can upgrade your old version of MS Works to the newer OS, and an entire library of software needs to be upgraded or replaced.
This may seen trivial, but for a large corporate account like USAA, that is $15 thousand per "seat".
Yes, the software costs several times that of the hardware.
Vista was rejected almost right from the start.
Space Cadet, the pinball game, will not run in Vista, and it is a Microsoft program!
But, oddly enough, it was possible to make the needed programs work in unix, USAA did not go open source.
So, you see, the picture gets more convoluted.
Microsoft is just about to get hit with a legal issue.
If Microsoft is no longer willing to support XP, do they give up the rights to it?
If that is not the case, what if some group writes an open source version of XP?
Think about it. all the XP, without the price.
XP Free, it even sounds nice!
But, at that point Microsoft is all but out of business.
Microsoft sued the makers of "Open Windows" and lost on copyright.
Xerox owns the rights to the Windows name.
So, if Microsoft loses this next go-round, true, it might not be called Windows XP, but Open Windows?
If it can run 100% of all of your legacy software, and were free?
This may become a non issue, as Android, not perfect but getting there, and iOS, are taking over.
Thank you.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 08, 2014, 12:04:04 PM
The start screen is the only "Metro" looking thing I ever see. Everything else looks like regular Windows that we're used to.

The restored start button in 8.1 does not bring back the old start menu structure. It still takes you to the new start screen.

Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth--or trying to interpret my thoughts?  

First, Windows is Windows.  Win 8 is a new, different version--that is all.  Of course once you get into the application everything looks like the Windows we're used to.  It wouldn't be Windows if it didn't.  It's the user interface that's been changed--and THAT is the bone in many people's throats.

And I never said that the start button brings back the old menu structure--I only said that people wanted the start button back, and Win 8.1 did that.  A thousand pardons if you didn't understand--maybe I didn't express my thoughts plainly enough.

In any event, this picking of nits isn't doing anyone a service, and I'll not continue it.  73.

All I am saying is that there is a choice. People can use Windows 8 and not be forced into the metro interface. The desktop is there and it looks a lot like Windows 7 with the exception of the start menu. I am sorry if you think I am putting words in your mouth.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 08, 2014, 02:44:59 PM

Microsoft is just about to get hit with a legal issue.
If Microsoft is no longer willing to support XP, do they give up the rights to it?
If that is not the case, what if some group writes an open source version of XP?
Think about it. all the XP, without the price.
XP Free, it even sounds nice!
So, if Microsoft loses this next go-round, true, it might not be called Windows XP, but Open Windows?
If it can run 100% of all of your legacy software, and were free?


Usually when talking about software that the company no longer supports, it can be called "Abandonware"  . Microsoft orphaned XP, so Abandonware might a good word to use. Yet the company still retains full copyright on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

"Commercial software unsupported but still owned by a viable company"

And I would venture to guess if a group of talented programmers took XP and resold it with support you can bet Microsoft would sue the stuffing out of them.

Why can't someone deconstruct Windows and then make an OS in which Windows programs can run on? That would be illegal.

There is something called "ReactOS" which is supposed to run Windows programs and was developed from the ground up without using any of Microsoft's code.  I remember first hearing about this several years ago and tried it and could not it use it in any practical sense. Maybe things have changed since?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_os


Now, how many here are aware of Microsoft's most obscure OS? "Windows FLP" It was not available to the public but through their Customer Assurance program. It ran like XP looked like XP yet consumed far less resources than regular XP

Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Fundamentals_for_Legacy_PCs


System requirements CPU    Pentium 233 MHz (300 MHz recommended)
Memory    64 MB (128 MB recommended)
Graphics hardware    800×600 computer monitor
Hard disk space    610 MB (1 GB recommended)
Network hardware    Optional

Here is more information on Windows FLP

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-xp/what-you-need-know-about-windows-fundamentals-legacy-pcs

And now.... you know, the rest of the story. And now back to our beloved Soap Opera " As The Hard Drive Spins"




Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 08, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
The laptop will go the way of the netbook and dodo bird. OK let me refine this a bit, the older generation like myself will still want/use a full laptop but the younger gen is moving quickly away from them to all in one devices. I have been in IT for 25 years and have seen this trend happening more and more.

There has always been a market for appliance computers (ie a tablet / smartphone) but until recently they have been terrible, forcing less techy people to buy a PC in order to accomplish the few tasks they wish to do.  Think of how many computers will be used merely for email, web browsing, and word processing - maybe 90%!  But there will always be a market for higher powered computers more suitable for tasks like programming, video editing, photo editing, and so forth.

In fact, I think there will be an opposite trend to the one you predict.  People will realize that paying $50-120 a month merely to squint at tiny web pages and movies on their phone and send text messages is stupid, and cell phones will actually become less popular.  This has already occurred with Bluetooth headsets - 5 years ago they were quite popular but now you simply do not see people using them much.  Most Bluetooth headsets I have seen in the last couple years are worn by the baby boomers still enchanted with this Dick Tracy style technology.

My wife and I have a pay as you go dumb-phone that stays in the glove box in case of a breakdown.  Neither of us carries a cell phone, and we are not that old.  I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K5UNX on June 08, 2014, 05:12:47 PM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W4KYR on June 08, 2014, 05:32:48 PM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.



iPhone and iPad have Facetime
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4319



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 08, 2014, 06:42:08 PM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.



iPhone and iPad have Facetime
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4319



Skype is free and better quality than face time and cross platform too. It works on Driod, Windows and IOS.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 08, 2014, 10:04:24 PM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.

They use a combination of Skype and Apple's Facetime if the other party has an Apple device.  Most of the people I know are Apple users for various reasons, so it works well for that.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 09, 2014, 04:46:26 AM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.

They use a combination of Skype and Apple's Facetime if the other party has an Apple device.  Most of the people I know are Apple users for various reasons, so it works well for that.

Face time used a very low res camera to limit bandwidth and graphic requirements and still does compared to industry, Skype is far more advanced and MS bought Skype for that reason a few years ago but unlike Apple it will keep using it cross platform.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 09, 2014, 01:54:08 PM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.

They use a combination of Skype and Apple's Facetime if the other party has an Apple device.  Most of the people I know are Apple users for various reasons, so it works well for that.

Face time used a very low res camera to limit bandwidth and graphic requirements and still does compared to industry, Skype is far more advanced and MS bought Skype for that reason a few years ago but unlike Apple it will keep using it cross platform.

Skype suffers in a number of ways, most importantly it is not secure.  MS bought Skype and backdoored it immediately.  Pretty typical of their dirty tricks.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 10, 2014, 07:51:59 AM
I have a few friends who have switched to using an iPod Touch instead of an iPhone because wifi is easily available in many places for free, and it is just as good as a cell phone when it is near a wifi access point.

I am curious, using Skype? What for voice service? I know Skype could be used, but I thought you had to pay for a phone number with Skype but I am not sure.

They use a combination of Skype and Apple's Facetime if the other party has an Apple device.  Most of the people I know are Apple users for various reasons, so it works well for that.

Face time used a very low res camera to limit bandwidth and graphic requirements and still does compared to industry, Skype is far more advanced and MS bought Skype for that reason a few years ago but unlike Apple it will keep using it cross platform.

Skype suffers in a number of ways, most importantly it is not secure.  MS bought Skype and backdoored it immediately.  Pretty typical of their dirty tricks.

Blame government and FCC / CALEA requirement for law enforce since Skype was now US owned. This started under Bush junior.   


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 10, 2014, 10:13:48 AM
Hello.

Microsoft has a back door, and I try and stay away.
VoIP works well, can be secure, and run on most platforms.
Skype was secure, US law requires some things be done.
But, what if you loaded non US compliant VoIP?
The US law limited exports of some types of encryption.
Anyone remember "Clipper", that wonderful US encryption scheme?
Omni was the UK version.
PGP is the free world version.
The Russians have GLONASS, and it can be used to encrypt signals, just like the US system, but the Russians will let anyone do it.
The effort to keep up with it makes it secure, as the ever moving key needs to be captured in real time.
True, everyone is using the same rolling code, but has their own key, and a public key.
Hackers are beginning to exploit this, on tablets, phones, etc.
So, the feds say that there can be no GLONASS only mode on US devices.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 10, 2014, 10:49:51 AM
Hello.

Microsoft has a back door, and I try and stay away.
VoIP works well, can be secure, and run on most platforms.
Skype was secure, US law requires some things be done.
But, what if you loaded non US compliant VoIP?
The US law limited exports of some types of encryption.
Anyone remember "Clipper", that wonderful US encryption scheme?
Omni was the UK version.
PGP is the free world version.
The Russians have GLONASS, and it can be used to encrypt signals, just like the US system, but the Russians will let anyone do it.
The effort to keep up with it makes it secure, as the ever moving key needs to be captured in real time.
True, everyone is using the same rolling code, but has their own key, and a public key.
Hackers are beginning to exploit this, on tablets, phones, etc.
So, the feds say that there can be no GLONASS only mode on US devices.


Unless you have something to hide there is not a problem. A court order is required to open door. Apple secretly tracked Iphone users locations for years until it was found by a hacker in 2013. Apple said it was a "mistake". Their only likely mistake was not hiding it well enough.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W1JKA on June 11, 2014, 03:34:16 AM
  I still can't figure out why the current generation of younger folks are all wound up about hackers,  cell phone, Skype, VOIP etc. communications privacy since all the older generation was brought up in this environment via switchboard operators, party lines, phone taps etc. and thought nothing of it. Hell, if you have something to hide or want secret communications just have both parties invest their monthly $80-150 cell phone plans into a cheap transceiver instead, this way they can communicate mobile, out of band via cw/ssb number stations without need for any license or fees.  


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 11, 2014, 10:45:26 AM
Hello.

The reason the new generation is so  concerned is that it is possible to wipe out an entire bank account in a matter of seconds.
The era of switchboards is done.
And, hackers love the VX-3r for short range chats.
Now, in the old era, the police were not as aggressive, entire SWAT teams with tanks!
But, kids did not carry guns to school!
In short, things have changed.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: AA4PB on June 11, 2014, 11:48:47 AM
Not only bank accounts but they can steal your personal information, take out loans and credit cards in your name and ruin your credit rating taking a very long time and a lot of effort to straighten out.

On the other hand, they worry about NSA knowing what phone numbers they talk to but freely post loads of personal information, pictures of their kids, etc. on Face Book. Go figure  ;)



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 11, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
Not only bank accounts but they can steal your personal information, take out loans and credit cards in your name and ruin your credit rating taking a very long time and a lot of effort to straighten out.

On the other hand, they worry about NSA knowing what phone numbers they talk to but freely post loads of personal information, pictures of their kids, etc. on Face Book. Go figure  ;)



Very true!


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 11, 2014, 08:55:32 PM
Hello.

Microsoft has a back door, and I try and stay away.
VoIP works well, can be secure, and run on most platforms.
Skype was secure, US law requires some things be done.
But, what if you loaded non US compliant VoIP?
The US law limited exports of some types of encryption.
Anyone remember "Clipper", that wonderful US encryption scheme?
Omni was the UK version.
PGP is the free world version.
The Russians have GLONASS, and it can be used to encrypt signals, just like the US system, but the Russians will let anyone do it.
The effort to keep up with it makes it secure, as the ever moving key needs to be captured in real time.
True, everyone is using the same rolling code, but has their own key, and a public key.
Hackers are beginning to exploit this, on tablets, phones, etc.
So, the feds say that there can be no GLONASS only mode on US devices.


Unless you have something to hide there is not a problem. A court order is required to open door. Apple secretly tracked Iphone users locations for years until it was found by a hacker in 2013. Apple said it was a "mistake". Their only likely mistake was not hiding it well enough.

If you think that the authorities need a court order to spy on you, you have been asleep for a year.  They will spy on you illegally.  Now this kind of spying is available to your local cops too - better hope the sheriff likes you.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 12, 2014, 04:35:16 AM
Hello.

Microsoft has a back door, and I try and stay away.
VoIP works well, can be secure, and run on most platforms.
Skype was secure, US law requires some things be done.
But, what if you loaded non US compliant VoIP?
The US law limited exports of some types of encryption.
Anyone remember "Clipper", that wonderful US encryption scheme?
Omni was the UK version.
PGP is the free world version.
The Russians have GLONASS, and it can be used to encrypt signals, just like the US system, but the Russians will let anyone do it.
The effort to keep up with it makes it secure, as the ever moving key needs to be captured in real time.
True, everyone is using the same rolling code, but has their own key, and a public key.
Hackers are beginning to exploit this, on tablets, phones, etc.
So, the feds say that there can be no GLONASS only mode on US devices.


Unless you have something to hide there is not a problem. A court order is required to open door. Apple secretly tracked Iphone users locations for years until it was found by a hacker in 2013. Apple said it was a "mistake". Their only likely mistake was not hiding it well enough.

If you think that the authorities need a court order to spy on you, you have been asleep for a year.  They will spy on you illegally.  Now this kind of spying is available to your local cops too - better hope the sheriff likes you.

If it was one half the problem you make it out to be there would be a lot of people in trouble for their thoughts. People want to be safe and yet watch for terror cells and yet what to make it hard to glean potential data. Some countries banned blackberry messenger for a while because it is very secure and pretty much impossible to hack without help from blackberry.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W1JKA on June 12, 2014, 04:36:55 AM
 
  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.

 



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 12, 2014, 07:04:25 AM

  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.


Never been a hack of a SSL remote banking login that I am aware of. Pretty hard to do as the encryption changes every-time you log in.  The hacks have been from getting into servers on a few occasions or local software on device gleaning personal info. 


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 12, 2014, 07:14:14 PM

  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.

Enter Facebook, Twitter, and the other "social networking" sites.  Used to be that you called your friends up and talked about issues, now you post them in these sites--and the way sites are set up, EVERYBODY can see what you post depending on the way the 'friends' list is set up.

IOW, People don't have to worry about hacking and spying--they do it to themselves by social networking their thoughts, gripes and dirty laundry.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 18, 2014, 01:22:12 PM

  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.

Enter Facebook, Twitter, and the other "social networking" sites.  Used to be that you called your friends up and talked about issues, now you post them in these sites--and the way sites are set up, EVERYBODY can see what you post depending on the way the 'friends' list is set up.

IOW, People don't have to worry about hacking and spying--they do it to themselves by social networking their thoughts, gripes and dirty laundry.

Ah, that tired canard.  Just because some people engage in social media networking, this doesn't mean that the government should have the right to run roughshod over the 4th amendment.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 18, 2014, 01:29:52 PM

  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.

Enter Facebook, Twitter, and the other "social networking" sites.  Used to be that you called your friends up and talked about issues, now you post them in these sites--and the way sites are set up, EVERYBODY can see what you post depending on the way the 'friends' list is set up.

IOW, People don't have to worry about hacking and spying--they do it to themselves by social networking their thoughts, gripes and dirty laundry.

Ah, that tired canard.  Just because some people engage in social media networking, this doesn't mean that the government should have the right to run roughshod over the 4th amendment.

And I would be you would complain the loudest when someone was not caught because of restrictions. In todays world you have to give up a few things to keep wolves at bay.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 18, 2014, 01:51:47 PM

  Folks used to whisper and talk in low voices to each other about personal laundry, now they amplify it for everybody via the internet sites. Folks used to make trips to brick and mortar financial institutions to take care of their personal finances, now they use the internet where hackers can hijack their accounts anywhere along the way, all in the so called political correct term of CONVENIENCE. So if you enjoy quick public exposure of your personal life and financial dealings, more power to you and GL.

Enter Facebook, Twitter, and the other "social networking" sites.  Used to be that you called your friends up and talked about issues, now you post them in these sites--and the way sites are set up, EVERYBODY can see what you post depending on the way the 'friends' list is set up.

IOW, People don't have to worry about hacking and spying--they do it to themselves by social networking their thoughts, gripes and dirty laundry.

Ah, that tired canard.  Just because some people engage in social media networking, this doesn't mean that the government should have the right to run roughshod over the 4th amendment.

And I would be you would complain the loudest when someone was not caught because of restrictions. In todays world you have to give up a few things to keep wolves at bay.

I bet you'd be wrong.  Your attitude is what has allowed this place to become a police state that the STASI would have envied.  By the way, one of the guys who helped set up our Department of Homeland Security used to work for the STASI.

I don't think it's very patriotic to insist that we give up our rights in order to feel safe.  Especially when this safety is largely illusionary.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 19, 2014, 04:41:57 AM
...IOW, People don't have to worry about hacking and spying--they do it to themselves by social networking their thoughts, gripes and dirty laundry.

Ah, that tired canard.  Just because some people engage in social media networking, this doesn't mean that the government should have the right to run roughshod over the 4th amendment.

Never said they should.  Only said that people spread their own dirty laundry out already.

Stop reading your own meaning into other people's posts, and you wouldn't have the problem of looking like an idiot on this board.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 19, 2014, 06:22:52 AM
I don't think it's very patriotic to insist that we give up our rights in order to feel safe.  Especially when this safety is largely illusionary.

It has Nothing to do with being patriotic! It has to do with thwarting those that do not respect the rules and will use your own rules to bring you down. BTW I did my time in military did you?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 19, 2014, 05:41:07 PM
I don't think it's very patriotic to insist that we give up our rights in order to feel safe.  Especially when this safety is largely illusionary.

It has Nothing to do with being patriotic! It has to do with thwarting those that do not respect the rules and will use your own rules to bring you down. BTW I did my time in military did you?

Asking another American to compare the color of their stripes with yours is hardly a becoming attitude for a military man.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: N4AAB on June 20, 2014, 07:00:43 AM
I always find it amazing that people think criminals and other miscreants are stopped by laws. Laws don't stop them, court dates and them being put into prison stops them. And they still break the law in prison.

Laws do typically stop the honest person, but have little to no effect on preventing criminals from being/doing criminal things.

And as for the Patriot Act, it isn't patriotic. Losing liberies for us wont stop the terrorists.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 20, 2014, 08:49:40 AM
I don't think it's very patriotic to insist that we give up our rights in order to feel safe.  Especially when this safety is largely illusionary.

It has Nothing to do with being patriotic! It has to do with thwarting those that do not respect the rules and will use your own rules to bring you down. BTW I did my time in military did you?

Asking another American to compare the color of their stripes with yours is hardly a becoming attitude for a military man.

In side stepping you answered question. You are blowing smoke.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KK4GGL on June 20, 2014, 11:16:16 AM
BTW I did my time in military did you?

Did your time? Were you sentenced to serve in the military?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: K1CJS on June 20, 2014, 02:00:46 PM
 I still can't figure out why the current generation of younger folks are all wound up about hackers,  cell phone, Skype, VOIP etc. communications privacy since all the older generation was brought up in this environment via switchboard operators, party lines, phone taps etc. and thought nothing of it. Hell, if you have something to hide or want secret communications just have both parties invest their monthly $80-150 cell phone plans into a cheap transceiver instead, this way they can communicate mobile, out of band via cw/ssb number stations without need for any license or fees.  


Do you think, just maybe, that the paranoia spread by the government, the so called department of "homeland security" and so on, with their domestic spying has something to do with the hang-ups of this generation?  I sure do.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 20, 2014, 04:07:51 PM
Hello.

We have a government that went broke for 15 days, that no longer has a space program, and has lost well over a dozen drones.
We lost the twin towers and have a police force that most people now fear.
And you think nothing is wrong?
Gun control is not working, just look at the places where it is enforced.
But, what is wrong? shootings in schools?
Society is beginning to fail, not just in the USA, but globally.
And, yes, some people are afraid.
Why do you think being so connected is so important?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 20, 2014, 10:13:56 PM
BTW I did my time in military did you?

Did your time? Were you sentenced to serve in the military?

Sadly many people's constitutional rights to be free from involuntary servitude were violated when drafts were called.  So in a way, it was either a jail sentence or a trip to some god forsaken hellhole, neither of which were actually chosen by said individual.

Yeah, I know, bringing up the egregious violations of our constitutional rights by the government is un-patriotic.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 21, 2014, 07:57:32 AM
BTW I did my time in military did you?

Did your time? Were you sentenced to serve in the military?

Sadly many people's constitutional rights to be free from involuntary servitude were violated when drafts were called.  So in a way, it was either a jail sentence or a trip to some god forsaken hellhole, neither of which were actually chosen by said individual.

Yeah, I know, bringing up the egregious violations of our constitutional rights by the government is un-patriotic.

Sadly those they cry about loose of freedoms the most are the ones that expect a free ride and not have to defend with personal commitment. Our freedoms are not free as many died keeping it. I have no putty for Draft dodgers that left country and 5 hen wanted 5 come back free and I would like to see Draft come back too.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: N4AAB on June 21, 2014, 08:45:28 AM
BTW I did my time in military did you?

Did your time? Were you sentenced to serve in the military?

Sadly many people's constitutional rights to be free from involuntary servitude were violated when drafts were called.  So in a way, it was either a jail sentence or a trip to some god forsaken hellhole, neither of which were actually chosen by said individual.

Yeah, I know, bringing up the egregious violations of our constitutional rights by the government is un-patriotic.

Sadly those they cry about loose of freedoms the most are the ones that expect a free ride and not have to defend with personal commitment. Our freedoms are not free as many died keeping it. I have no putty for Draft dodgers that left country and 5 hen wanted 5 come back free and I would like to see Draft come back too.


We have lost freedoms due to the unpatriotic Patriot Act. The Us Supreme court stated parts of it are unconstitutional. I thnik all of it is. And I spent 6 years in the US Navy, honorable discharge.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KK4GGL on June 21, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
Sadly those they cry about loose of freedoms the most are the ones that expect a free ride and not have to defend with personal commitment. Our freedoms are not free as many died keeping it. I have no putty for Draft dodgers that left country and 5 hen wanted 5 come back free and I would like to see Draft come back too.

You might want to review/edit your posts.

Drafted were ya?

There are other ways to provide public service besides military service.



Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 21, 2014, 02:29:48 PM
Sadly those they cry about loose of freedoms the most are the ones that expect a free ride and not have to defend with personal commitment. Our freedoms are not free as many died keeping it. I have no putty for Draft dodgers that left country and 5 hen wanted 5 come back free and I would like to see Draft come back too.

You might want to review/edit your posts.

Drafted were ya?

There are other ways to provide public service besides military service.



Actual my draft number was 363. I went in on own. Had I been born a year earlier my number would have been like 7.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KE7TMA on June 21, 2014, 06:18:55 PM
BTW I did my time in military did you?

Did your time? Were you sentenced to serve in the military?

Sadly many people's constitutional rights to be free from involuntary servitude were violated when drafts were called.  So in a way, it was either a jail sentence or a trip to some god forsaken hellhole, neither of which were actually chosen by said individual.

Yeah, I know, bringing up the egregious violations of our constitutional rights by the government is un-patriotic.

Sadly those they cry about loose of freedoms the most are the ones that expect a free ride and not have to defend with personal commitment. Our freedoms are not free as many died keeping it. I have no putty for Draft dodgers that left country and 5 hen wanted 5 come back free and I would like to see Draft come back too.


What in the world did any of the post-WWII non-war overseas adventures have to do with securing our freedoms?  Seriously.  We were defending economic and political interests, not defending against hordes of invaders.

Why would you like to see the draft return?  It's an egregious violation of the Constitutional provision against involuntary servitude.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 22, 2014, 07:39:04 AM
Why would you like to see the draft return?  It's an egregious violation of the Constitutional provision against involuntary servitude.

Those that wish to reap the most benefits are usually those that object the most to the needs of the country. Do not lecture and call serving the country that provides your existence involuntary servitude. Those that cry the most do the least to defend her.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: N4AAB on June 22, 2014, 08:29:03 AM
Why would you like to see the draft return?  It's an egregious violation of the Constitutional provision against involuntary servitude.

Those that wish to reap the most benefits are usually those that object the most to the needs of the country. Do not lecture and call serving the country that provides your existence involuntary servitude. Those that cry the most do the least to defend her.

The draft is unnessary. It is involuntary servitude. I volunteered, and served in the US Navy.

Just because you don't see the draft as wrong, doesn't mean its right.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 22, 2014, 09:10:30 AM
Why would you like to see the draft return?  It's an egregious violation of the Constitutional provision against involuntary servitude.

Those that wish to reap the most benefits are usually those that object the most to the needs of the country. Do not lecture and call serving the country that provides your existence involuntary servitude. Those that cry the most do the least to defend her.

The draft is unnessary. It is involuntary servitude. I volunteered, and served in the US Navy.

Just because you don't see the draft as wrong, doesn't mean its right.


With a draft, everyone is in the pool, not just the unfortunates needing a job. Those born with silvers spoons might have to serve too. Any when everyone serves the politicians will look at conflicts different too.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: N4AAB on June 22, 2014, 04:48:10 PM
Why would you like to see the draft return?  It's an egregious violation of the Constitutional provision against involuntary servitude.

Those that wish to reap the most benefits are usually those that object the most to the needs of the country. Do not lecture and call serving the country that provides your existence involuntary servitude. Those that cry the most do the least to defend her.

The draft is unnessary. It is involuntary servitude. I volunteered, and served in the US Navy.

Just because you don't see the draft as wrong, doesn't mean its right.


With a draft, everyone is in the pool, not just the unfortunates needing a job. Those born with silvers spoons might have to serve too. Any when everyone serves the politicians will look at conflicts different too.

Only thing is, during Viet Nam mostly poor kids were drafted.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 22, 2014, 07:40:00 PM
Hello.

Vietnam was already rigged.
George W. did something in the national guard, sort of.
The average kid got pumped out to the middle of hell.
Then the US lost, and not only did they get called baby killer, but since the US lost, no hero welcome.
In fact, the VFW did not want them.
The draft dodgers that went to Canada were given amnesty.
And the oil embargo killed any chance of employment.
A lot turned to drinking, or hard drugs, or suicide.
Vietnam was a mess!
Here we have returning Iraq vets, same thing.
The economy failed, no WMDs, and clearly the US screwed the pooch in Iraq.
Thousands of returning vets who have a VA that is failing.
And a lot turned to drinking, or hard drugs, or suicide.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W9CLL on June 22, 2014, 07:45:12 PM
Hello.

Vietnam was already rigged.
George W. did something in the national guard, sort of.
The average kid got pumped out to the middle of hell.
Then the US lost, and not only did they get called baby killer, but since the US lost, no hero welcome.
In fact, the VFW did not want them.
The draft dodgers that went to Canada were given amnesty.
And the oil embargo killed any chance of employment.
A lot turned to drinking, or hard drugs, or suicide.
Vietnam was a mess!
Here we have returning Iraq vets, same thing.
The economy failed, no WMDs, and clearly the US screwed the pooch in Iraq.
Thousands of returning vets who have a VA that is failing.
And a lot turned to drinking, or hard drugs, or suicide.

What the hell does any of  this have to do with the topic?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 22, 2014, 08:46:18 PM
This was a response to the other responses.
The fact of the matter is that the more the things change, the more they will stay the same.
Society will always have its issues.
But progress will be made as well.
Whatever is next, be it this "glass" Google is pushing, a tablet or desktop, it will be easily identified by the user.
Think about it, we can take a candlestick telephone and make it work with VoIP.
Soon computers will be powerful enough that the spoken word will be the input device.
Watching a feature film on a tablet in Hi Def is now a reality.
Talking around the world is now common.
The question was, what is next, the Latest and Greatest.
This is an open ended question, to let imagination run its course.
Be it a Western Electric 151 telephone with an ATA adapter stuffed inside the bell box or something we have not thought of yet.
What is next, what do you think?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W1JKA on June 23, 2014, 03:18:49 AM
Re: Latest and Greatest

Without a doubt, MOHAMMED ALI, the best at dodging punches and drafts.


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: KA5PIU on June 23, 2014, 05:36:30 AM
Hello.

Again, thousands went to Canada.
Thousands more went to Mexico.
NOTHING happened to them.
President Ford pardoned ALL of them.
Mexico has the law that Mexico must be directly attacked to go to war.
Canada has almost the same thing.
The US has since put up huge barriers between the US and the 2 countries.
This has worked so well that Mexico and the pretty much All of Latin America brought Cuba into their economic circle.
It was clear that the US is not preferred nation.
The US is all but the outcast by China and Russia.
China has downed, and copied, the very latest drones.
Yes, from wreck to resurrection was 6 weeks!
Mexico is running their reactors to produce ever larger stockpiles of plutonium.
But, what does this have to do with computers?
When was the last time you saw an American made computer?


Title: RE: Latest and Greatest.
Post by: W8JX on June 23, 2014, 09:00:44 AM

But, what does this have to do with computers?
When was the last time you saw an American made computer?


When is last time your would rather pay 2 to 3x more for same system built in US?