La9xsa Yes! That is correct.

An FDP-8 TV wall receptacle has an output connector behind for continuation along the daisy chain where one can properly connect the coaxial cable going to the next place...but if one is used at the end of the drop a terminating resistor can be installed there and this is designed to prevent reflections traveling backwards along and to the previous outlet.

A single point Station entry panel bonding with a short wide strap and lightning arrests connecting both center conductors and Shields of coax and anything else that is vulnerable from outside entering through that panel located between the antenna and equipment should be connected to a earthing rod that is in turn connected to the Ac mains entry panel with same treatment andany and all rods should be bonded together. bonded earthing rod to earthing rod.

When those rods are properly bonded along with proper single point entry panels being grounded is the important aspect therefore disconnecting the equipment from that single point earthing panel is perfectly OK along with disconnecting the station feedlines and control cables it is acceptable to also disconnect the station and all accessories from the ac outlets.

When the system is working properly the bonded rods should help to keep a large percentage of damaging electricity off the electrical wiring proffering to go to earth ground via the averaged lessor path of resistance flowing into the rods
73.

As an addition for feed method clarity I attached the Hustler vertical shaft in this case the 54" Mo-1 feed point simply using a wide bonding sheathe and SS hose clamp onto the shaft.

I was able to fashion it this way because the balun was purposely mounted perpendicular to the shaft and very close within inches for good connectivity performance.

The bonding sheathe being pliable simply wraps around the bottom end of the antenna shaft and the hose clamp, makes excellent connection. The sheathe being about 2" length connects to the balun terminal marked center conductor in the usual way slipping over the terminal bolt through and tightly securing with the nuts and washers.

73

I built a multie band(10m to 40m )vertical using the Hustler long shaft 54" with the various applicable resonators fit it and positioned the antenna centered directly midway of the bedroom window.

The antenna and radials are indoors more on the radials to follow.

Down at the vertical base I placed a 1:1 current balun.
and using a male to male UHF connector I next attached an auto tuner (optional)

The radial wire system is made of #14 insulated stranded copper and consists of horizontally oriented and purposed to be horizontal radiation cancelled pairs per band that are tuned and equally positioned traveling or routed along the base board in opposite direction relative to each other exacting centered positioning relative to the vertical base. They are horizontally oriented pairs and return the power back to the vertical to be radiated. If you can not run them straight all the way then if possible turn them down the opposite walls at equal distance from the source to help keep them centered relative to the position of the vertical antenna.I suppose one can attempt to emulate a half moon shaped flat plane radial systemfanning the wires underneath carpet I am not comfortable doing so but truthfully I do not think that is as effective an alternative for this special case.

To connect them I used a 3"x 5" wide aluminum rectangular shaped plate and attached each pair together to already installed bolts thru the plate and repeated this for each of the individual radial pairs via crimped and soldered ring terminalsstar washers for excellent electrical bite then attached the plate to the balun terminal marked shield directly.

The advantage of the quarter wave Hustler and resonators is that it can be adjusted for the individual bands and shrinks the vertical length allowing fitting into the space.

I was able to fit and tune every band from 10m to 30m within my vertical space from floor to ceiling without the need for the tuner.

On 40m the lowest band I could manage in this area I need to modify the whip length so I used #14 copper insulated wire as an add on extension connected with an electrical wire to wire bolt from the tip top of the whip and bent the wire following the ceiling horizontally to complete the required length needed...The system provided service on the ham bands.

The bundling of the radial wires was done using teflon tie wraps then routed as a single harness half and the other half done identically this is faster and the tips of each were allowed to be visible protruding upwards above the carpet and allowing easy access for tuning then stayed in such a position with a high voltage wire nut terminating the ends safely with 20 watts pep.

Are there better more effective radial systems ...yes.
Does this radial system work reasonably yes.

73

Oh come on Alan I'm sorry I was just teasn

Nah It's easy and I can do it better than you he he. 

Hello kb4qaa, No we are not just dealing with high power transmission lines.The surge impedance formula is also useful and used to work out varying vertical diameters with height and for included loading coils and capacity hat systems and is accurate down to 0.64"D and is also useful for these types of antenna system calculations.

So yes surge impedance indeed.

My original question is not how to tune a vertical mobile antenna. That was an attempt to answer to k0bg retort and sorry I was sidetracked lol

It is about whether or not the cap hat addition to an exacting system is feasible to consider as a worthy addition to when one already has in operation an optimised Hustler mobile antenna.

To g7die: Dx Engineering MM-1? I did not mention a brand, hmm I was Not referring to it but since you mentioned it yeah might be a perfect solution for my installation slap it in ya know? Rather than building a shunt inductor at the feed point.
Geeze those young and lazy newbies "well when I was your age!"
Anything you can do I can do better.

73

Hello glad to hear that you fellas are working it out.

I looked at the photos and see that the antenna is well below the roof peak...And I understand the need to be as stealthy as possible, just know that many suggestions prescribed here are viable options especially raising the base height of the antenna to just above the peak and can be done from mostly inside the attic grrr hot etc and allot of work.

Nice job and have fun
73

Ok Lamar you need to acquire a dummy load connect it and using the dummy load  emulate all the conditionswhere you are noticing problems band and frequency then look to see if there is a difference.
The dummy load will be accurate and should ensure by virtue of being a stable load will eliminate any erroneous effects caused by RF common mode so that you can then determine whether or not the power supply is excessive voltage drop or not.

Then systematically diagnose to the next plausible anecdote.

Every anecdotal suggestion mentioned above can be the problem or a combination thereof.

You will find it

73

OK thanks, OK my use of the word optimised is meant to imply that the two similar antennas   One being the Hustler mo-1 long shaft and resonator and the other being again a Hustler with the Hot Rodz capacity hat. After when both are determined to be working properly and exhibiting their maximum contributions relative to the common vehicle then is the proper time for a field strength comparison between each downrange.

Yes perhaps some miss it but not me. And is why I stated a 50 ohm Non inductive surge impedance as driven at the antenna expressed as a 50 ohm Rr.

Anyway guess I will need to try to emulate the test controls for a fair field strength comparison between the two techniques with similar mobile antennas and look for any worthwhile advantages relative to out the door detectable signal increase to be utilized for my Radio pursuits.

Ac4rd OK I do like the quick change disconnect idea and use one with my Hustler mobile antenna, and seems like your adaptation relative to having them ready made and readyfor service is "modified" if one has the room available.

Thanks to all that were willing to respond and

73

The resonant 1/2 wave end fed vertical (Wire Zep) for portable use can be decoupled relative to problematic common mode displacement currents  although doing so seems burdensome the return in performance for the work done is worth it.

I operated portable from Tennessee and worked with, investigated, and evaluated this type of both resonant 1/2  wave wireand (non resonant vertical End fed using an L network) and 1:1 current balun together located at the slightly elevated feed point.

Obviously when feeding an end fed 1/2 wave zep and the second part or a radial system such as a flat plane horizontal system of radials is not included then
 Kirchoffs Law will mandate that the rf current and voltage find and involve things" to satisfy the Law to complete the cycle. Called insisted effort towards Balance.

Speaking of voltage and current it is very high with the 1/2 wave end fed Zep.

The end fed 1/2 wave when all the decoupling is done properly develops a pattern and radiates in it's own right.

The real question is pattern development of verticals in general and whether or not the perceived or real of being a 1/2 over some other length such as far less problematic 1/4 wave ever really manifests an advantage over the 1/4 wave in the first place.

With verticals, Secondary lobes can form with relationship to earth surface and really we can utilize this to our advantage.

The question boils down to what we value as pattern for our specific coverage area whether it is worlwide or not etc.

I am not excluding omni directionality but speaking to pattern development relative to power manifested at one dominant trajectory vs subdividing it into two or more trajectories upwards towards the ionosphere.

As Dale pointed out that is an ongoing discussion as to whether we want one trajectory upwards with all the power within it or whether we want more trajectories upward attempting to strike a balance in either case higher angle inclusion is a user choice but often time includes unwanted propagated noise and legitimate signals mixing with other skywave from lower and usually more challenging to hear.

So height matters relative to verticals too and pattern development that which we can intentionally choose to perform a utility.

I found that elevated tuned pairs of radials sloping downwards broadside to the vertical meaning symmetrically routed were very effective and Dc isolated completed the system and when I made the vertical length held to a range of 1/4 to 5/8 wave from the fixed base height of 4-5 ft sloping the tuned radials downwards to the intersect point at ground along with the L network and 1:1 current balun at the feed point I had an excellent hf skywave dx antenna for multi band service.

I found that the antenna was no longer an end fed but rather more balanced relative to feed point position which moved much closer to center.

The system cost about $20 and very gratifying I hope this experience helps with your technical pursuits and evaluations.
 73

Hello, Yeah I agree with Mark as he has answered this question before with the same good advice.

The snow is not problematic relative to damaging the antenna.

Snow that melts then changes to Ice can be problematic if it is allowed to expand onto your antenna parts it is possible to do so with enough force to cause damage.

A non conductive enclosure would be anecdotal.

73

Yes Thanks of course modify vroom. Yes AC4RD I have previously looked over your site thanks for doing the work.

I like to speak technical English rather than mathematical formulas anyway...

Therefore the carbody,rather than efficient elevated tuned radials, is representing some of this loss which in turn raises the feed point sum total Rr. masking the fact that the system is suffering an inefficiency of radiating it's full load of power provided by the transmitter.

The swr looks great but the actual transfer of energy to the environment is partially lost in the loss resistance leaving only in part the difference to be radiated.

That is unquestionably possible and I have been aware of it for many years.

That is what the Hot Rodz  capacity hat add on kit is supposed to combat.

By truthfully eliminating a large percentage of loss resistance and exchanging it for a range of real surge driven Rr between 12.5 to 25 ohm range. But one must tune the system in conjunction with using a step up transformer... that is not to much of an issue just money

But.

I am however confident that my Hustler Mo-1 with Super resonator in conjunction with my particular vehicle is not suffering to the extent that the Hot Rodz would satisfy a justifiable increase in field strength relative to when either is optimised and then compared to each other.

Not knowing how much improvement is there by the Hot Rodz capacity hat add on kit relative to my existing system.

I guess what I am asking is more about whether my system  benefits any measurable or detectable radiation field strength increase by the Hot Rodz capacity hat kit enough to justify the extra work involved with using it IE. the added time and complexity of band hopping as relative to having a bunch of rodz and extra resonators some how all fitting in the car trunk pickup bed etc.

It is more a tally of inconveniences vs justifiable performance enhancement relative to the system In place.

In the end I would have to reconstruct the hat for band changing vs adding a pre tuned resonator and whip that I have ready to do in less than a minute of time.

No easy answers?

Listening to all opinions

73

Should read preferred 2

I have built most of the suggested antennas mentioned here and really preffer ed three because I like Dx.

The Inverted L
 can be sloped some a 10 degree angle is as if straight up as far as modeling indications  The vertical part can be made to be longer than the horizontal part some and traps can be installed for multi band purposes.

The elongated loop rectangle fed midway on a vertical side.
The horizontal wires serve as transmission lines and only a small remnant of horizontal radiation is produced, The vertical sections radiate the majority of power that manifests at low angle trajectory towards the horizon. The antenna is capable of very quiet reception relatively speaking as compared to other antennas and can be low like just above and out of reach because the antenna is behaving as a phased verticals the horizontal to vertical length ratio is better when made at a ratio of 3:1 horizontal dimension 3 to vertical dimension 1.

This antenna is self contained does not need a radial system even though it is a vertically radiating system.

73