Rick...

Understood. What does a 520 cost these days? $250? $300?

I bought one of the last 830's before they were discontinued (what mid 80's?) and didn't even open the box for a year. in my mind, it was  the classic Post KWM-II era radio.  Surely the biggest selling pair of 6146's xcvr of all time. My intent was to keep it for "all time".

Like a fool, I sold it for some reason. And I've regretted it ever since.

Please know, that in your hardship, and journey Rick, you may reach out to me for comfort at any time. And know that I will answer your on air call, whether you're on a 990 or an SB-101.

Warmest regards,
mike

But of course You drive a Kenworth James!  Excellent!

And you display imaginative ideas for the "elite" forum!
But please James, isn't it a bit much to wall it off ?

 I mean the President spoke  in his Inaugural speech wanting
to reduce "inequality'.  You know, we're all supposed to be alike,
make the same amount of money, have good homes, free education
and health care and no suffering. I mean in this climate James
your proposals could be construed as not working toward
the President's warm hearted goal. Let us work together to
make for a more equal world. I'm willing to give some old coax cable to a new Ham.
What say you James?

I do look forward to continued exchanges with you James. Your fertile mind
is not what I would have expected from a Truck driver. And one of culture at that!

Warm regards and with all humility,
mike

Yes, James we agree.  Though few truck drivers go to the Getty or MOMA. (What kind of truck do you drive?)

My remarks are condescending only to those in denial. Class awareness often offends those that are not above the middle. Why? Because so many aspire to be what they are not.

Your idea for an "elite" forum is a good one!
 
 As you read the moaning posts of those who can't afford the Kenwood
 TS990 "for years to come" one wonders why do these people comment on
what they cannot have???
 There is a Maseratti dealer literally walking distance from my front
door, but I don't go over there and drool over what I cannot have.

 I'd like to see a closed off section of the forum that required say, a
 Credit Score of 650 or better and a net worth of $500K Plus to join and post graduate education.
(Anti intellectualism is wide spread in Ham radio, but formal education does matter.)
 
This would be an"elite" members only section as you so insightfully suggest..
That way these "superior" members of the forum wouldn't have to be subjected to
the constant wail of the lesserclasses.

 Perhaps give the unqualified masses "Read Only" privileges so they could
 learn from their "betters". Of course the Forum "Elites" could enter
 the low end portion of the forum and interact as they wish and yet be
 able to return to the refuge of the "Elite" section as needed.

Since verification of such credentials would require background checks, the individual seeking membership
in the Elite Forum would have to pay for backend costs. A pittance for people of means!

Great Idea! Assuming you'll be on the outside looking in,  I'll still say "Hi James" from inside the elite forum. No snob here!!!

Thanks for the comment.  Cheers from LA
Mike/wa4d

As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA

The Kenwood TS-990 Domestic US price is out as most know by now.  $7999.95 (HRO) --- they'll go to any length not to say the obvious. The radio costs $8000. Here in California that means the radio will cost about $8700. Of course no one will buy the radio in state when they can order from GigaParts/AES  (or others)  and not pay the Sales tax of near $700

Much online speculation and rancor about the price of the rig, took place prior to the price release.   A snap shot poll on Yahoo Groups suggested that most (80% of respondents) thought the 990  price would come in below $7000.  

That's all over now. The radio is VERY competitively priced in my view.

The Kenwood TS-990 fundamentally (and substantially) changes the operator experience. The features set are surely the most innovative  HF rig enhancements we've seen since the first spectrum scope was introduced in a "stand alone" xcvr.  The usability design will make it the default no brainer choice for contesters and DXers.   And the Touch based QSY on the Waterfall display has to be the most fun and creative operational adjustment since the  RIT/XIT ( What's that been? 30 years?)

The good news in all this is, Icom with it's elegant design philosophy and Yaesu's (every radio has to be a visual/linear  descendent of the KWM-2)  they will have to respond to the Kenwood TS-990's new operational paradigm.  One observer here on eHam has declared the 990 will be a "game changer".  I agree.

Kenwood TS-990 Brochure HERE:  http://www.hamradio.com/documents/TS-990%20Catalog.pdf

Master Sgt. Craig,

You've got these guys prostrate before you. Bowing and scrapping. Remember the vast majority of these guys either did not serve, were not in the Combat Arms or were REMFs.  It's amusing.  

K3SF reminds me of the kid in 4th grade who  called out  from the back of the room. "Craig twisted my private parts during recess, Teacher!"  Laughs.

I don't tell Vets "thank you for your service". It's too phony. And I reject the cliche from those that extend it to me.  It's like saying Happy New Year. A false platitude.  Most non Vets and Rear Echelon troops don't have much to talk about so they pump up their contribution or their "praise" for those who did.  But it's a farce on both levels.

As for these so called, "Stolen Valor" thieves that you are hunting down bounty hunter style.....Charge ahead. I think it's a waste of time and a bit silly. The Supreme's rendered their verdict on this last year.  To Lie about your service is "protected speech". Do I like it? No, but Life is unfair. As it should be.

United States Vs. Alvarez    Decided June 2012   (Vote: 6 to 3)

 Yes I see that number.

That said, as you go inside to the product page, they say:

Price will start by 6500,00 euro but price can by higher call us for the price

So this suggests that this is not their "final" price.

The US price at this point has yet to be published (at least as far as I can tell.)

Surely the most bland rhetoric I've seen lately. And Ham Radio publications as a whole can generally be categorized as "bland".

Writing is hard. If it was easy, we could all write best sellers.

I saw nothing in this draft that was engaging, stimulating or intellectually interesting.  Indeed, writing  on "technical" subjects is among the hardest areas of all, to make interesting. An example of Technical Subject writer of note: Wes Simpson. (Video over IP).   He's outstanding.

As W5FYI noted, Shrader and Orr are the standard for serious hams.

Give it up KI4--- You may have other talents. But writing on this subject is not one of them. Don't waste your time.

Mike/WA4D.Net

Amusing response  Zenki..... but your view is irrelevant. And that of an engineer.  Hams are appliance operators and few even know what a calibrated S meter is.

One of  the great myths  about Ham radio is that it is a "technical" hobby.  Though I concede a few engage in technical pursuits. Most just engage in meaningless blather on the air. And for  that the Kenwood/Icom/Yaesu appliances work just fine. Thankfully the big 3 don't design radios for Ham technicians. They "Design" radios on the basis of what  the "marketing" people tell them.  I know that's painful to the many pseudo engineers in the hobby!

Lastly the $5 to $10K radio is not expensive . Despite your dismissal, I dare say the overwhelming majorityof Hams would be more than satisfied with any of the +$5K radios now available.   No one cares about the Hiberling or R&S.  These are hams. Not technicians.

I did get a kick our of your reference to the $18,000 Hiberling. A radio that's been trying to get off the ground for  a  decade.

Cheers from LA

"British pound" is not the Euro correct.

There are many conversion sites on the web. Today 1 EURO = .81 British Pound Sterling.

And 1 Euro (at today's rate) = 1.31 (USD)

Yet, knowing the price of a rig in Spain (whose currency is the Euro) doesn't necessarily extrapolate to the British pound and further to the USD.  ( Hey Don't ask me why! )

Yes Eric much more expensive than the Ten Tec Orion. That said, there seems to be some confusion over the original report. (Being discussed over on Yahoo 990 Group)

One school holds that the Euro to Dollar conversion is not the formula to derive the radio price in US. And there is  evidence to support that. Example: the Icom 7600 costs about $3010 British pound and about $3700 (Gigaparts) in the States.  So trying to figure out what a US price is based on a known Euro price is a bit of  pretzel logic.  So I'll just wait until we see a real price posted.

mike

SpanishHam Magazine posts Kenwood TS-990 Prices as 7467 Euros.
At current exchange rates that is $9K  plus (USD)

http://www.radio-noticias.eu/noticias/Kenwood-TS-990.html

Stateside pricing remains a mystery.

Typo above in Subject

 I found myself wondering what does "affordable" mean with respect to buying a Ham rig. Specifically the 990. We all agree that the rig will cost north of $5000. Some of us think it's above $8K. No matter. The point is it's not a low end radio. Indeed, I've always wondered who buys these sub $1500 HF rigs. I don't even consider them to be full on base stations (but then that's another topic).

So just what does "affordable" mean. Some hams have lamented they won't be able to "afford" the radio at $5K plus. To me the issue is more complex than pricing. And all Hams enjoy reconfiguring their station in their head. It's a favorite past time many hams pursue.....endlessly! Laughs. "Let's see now, if I selll the FT-2000 and get rid of the Icom R-75 and those 2 analog HT's (not worth much) and sell the club my Tower.......et al " We've all been there and will be again. Probably soon.

But financial cost is only one variable. Just why does one need a $5K plus radio to enjoy Ham radio? We all know the answer is, you dont "Need" it. Though I suppose a case could be made for contestors/DXers and serious SWLs who seek every possible technical edge. But for most, a TS-830 would do just fine. (And by the way, I think the 990 will be an excellent SWL radio. Albeit pricey)

How "active" are you? What level of operational sophistication does the operator have? Is built in PSK and visual tuning an operational necessity? Is that retro/visual dial a plus? It may not be, but once you moved from a Rotary dial phone to a Button push, it's hard to imagine going back. To me that's the secret sauce of the 990. The sine qua non  if you will These new integrated features will have a profound effect on operational expectations of Hams who use the rig. Within seconds of sitting down and "firing up" the 990 the visual displays will tell the OP, how active a band is at present, most recent activity ( Waterfall) , the Rig's operational status and filter widths as well as a rapid scan and demod of digital modes. All this acting as an indpendent IP addressable device! Once a Ham has "experienced" the 990's operational environment it will become essential (if not addictive!). There will be no going back to a lesser rig.

Now you say, well you can get much of that now anyway for much less than the 990 will cost. And yes you can. Still....the integration, the ergonomics and "fun" factor just don't compare! Apple users often say, "when you sit down at a Mac there is a "fun factor" that is not present on the PC" I think the 990 will be "Mac" like in that respect.

So to me this "hidden treasure" of the 990 will be it's biggest attraction. No single feature set or spec will prevail over all others. Kenwood didn't just build a radio, they've built an RF "experience" that gives the operator many ways to engage the HF spectrum. And it looks like it's going to be a blast! Now if only I can "afford" it.............

I find the post "Sandy" bellowing ridiculous.  "We need hand helds" they shouted.  "We need better communications!".
"Put the Generators on the Parking deck."  Now that we've done "Katrina and Sandy" we'll ready with a whole new set of "best practices".  The rhetoric is  pathetic (though amusing)>

Gov. Cuomo wants $30 Billion for Post Sandy infrastructure repairs. That's $23 Billion more than the Feds were ready to give out. Still to be determined.    The good news is that New York and New Jersey are both states with deficits. (Yet, small timers compared to Calif.!)  They have not spent significant sums on "infrastructure" in  years.  And in the current fiscal climate they will not. New Jersey citizens are among the most heavily taxed in the nation. Yet their emergency response appeared to have been mediocre at best. What do they spend their money on? Like most states (Pensions for overpaid State retirees)

Government does not do anything very well. From FEMA to the Post Office. Or the IRS to the Military.  Ham Radio Emcomm enthusiasts love to embrace government and parrot their behavior.  They deserve each other!

Most hams don't waste their time on EmComm.  Nor shoud they.


mike wa4d.net

Amusing. Woman radiologist, an "IT Pro" and a couple of teachers who are "active" hams. (I doubt the "radiologist" is "active" if we define it similarly. Real professionals don't have time for frivolous hobbies.)

That doesn't mean they are smart, accomplished or technologists.   And what is an IT Pro?  Way too many IT workers think they are "professionals" where most are marginal technicians.  And k-12 teachers?  The vast majority are over paid civil servants in my view.

Thank you for acknowledging my articulate observations with your "Nobel Prize" quip. But a bit over the top. Iconoclasism is hardly worthy of any prize. Just a few laughs.

Cheers from LA