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1  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex-5000 Discontinued on: Yesterday at 02:26:16 PM
^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
I'm happy for you that you enjoy your rig. My uncle has one that he enjoys as well. That being said, you can still do a web search and find complaints about the K3. Which is exactly my point to all who would bash Flex or bash any brand of rig for that matter. We all have likes and dislikes. I've owned several  Icom rigs but never kept a one longer than about six months. There's something about them I just don't care for and I suspect I'll never buy another. Still, I don't make it my life's mission to take to the airwaves and the internet and bash them and the people who enjoy them. Flex radio and the whole concept of SDR in general put the fun back in the hobby for me as it has for a lot of other people as well.  I still can't fathom why that bothers some folks so badly but it does.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
2  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex-5000 Discontinued on: Yesterday at 12:45:33 PM
Every rig and  every brand out there has it's share of complaints against it and has detractors. All have faults. I have yet to find a perfect radio and I doubt one exist nor will it ever exist.  You show your ignorance by claiming that any off the shelf case could be used. Changing cases would not only involve re engineering but most important of all, it would require a new round of testing for type acceptance which isn't cheap.  

Well Flex has more complaints than the big three combined. As far as ignorance there is nothing hi-tech about that case that it could not be easily dupped or subbed. Kenwood and Yaesu saw a massive loss of parts sources with Tsunami and many suppliers gone for good and you did not see them discontinue any rigs because of it.

Flex is trying to play with big boys and act like a high roller when they are far from it. They are real good at excuses and BS though. The had a lot a practice with 5000.
And you know they have more complaints how? Someone elect you to keep track of it? I have seen complaints left and right about certain Icom radios failing. I loved my Kenwood TS-2000X I once owned but the dang thing had a birdie right in the middle of a popular satellite downlink.  The Yaesu 450 I owned had issues with ergonomics like too small of a tuning knob etc. etc. I worked in the retail end of the ham radio business. I've seen complaints about every type of radio out there. And yes, you are being ignorant! If nothing else changing the case would involve paying a lab to do type acceptance test again because of RF shielding considerations and such. You seem to want to  ignore that part of the money equation. Those test aren't cheap by any means. The big three afford such things for small radio upgrades by separating people like you from thousands of dollars for mediocre radios with substandard RX's.  A 600 dollar Flex 1500 RX beats radios out there that cost a couple of thousand easy. I know, I've compared them. Get over yourself, the Japanese manufacturers are laughing at you all the way to the bank!
Michael, W4HIJ

A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints on Flex radios. Software and RFI. Likely most RFI prone rig out there. Flex's biggest mistake was being to department on a external computer of unknown standards and a weak link by design.
A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints about ANY radio. When someone has a problem with something they are likely to complain about it. More often than not though, that's small minority of users and it stands out more because the majority of people without problems don't say much of anything. That's just human nature.
I've owned a 5K which I ran with a Kenwood TL-922A and I didn't have any RFI problems. My RFI problems were solved years ago when I ran that amp with a Kenwood TS-450. I won't say I didn't have some software and PC issues but by and large they were minor. There are certain little things I don't like about my 1500 but the strong points of it outweigh the bad.  When you find the perfect "one size fits all" rig then please let me and everyone else know about it OK?  Until then, why do you care that Flex discontinued the 5K? You hate them so bad anyway. People like myself who enjoyed them and then had to get rid of them for reasons other than performance are the ones who should care. I actually feel like it's a good thing though. The used market for them should flourish. That and competition from companies like Apache will help evolve SDR even further and we can finally get away from the overpriced pieces of crap the big three have saddled us with for years.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
3  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex-5000 Discontinued on: Yesterday at 12:16:54 AM
Every rig and  every brand out there has it's share of complaints against it and has detractors. All have faults. I have yet to find a perfect radio and I doubt one exist nor will it ever exist.  You show your ignorance by claiming that any off the shelf case could be used. Changing cases would not only involve re engineering but most important of all, it would require a new round of testing for type acceptance which isn't cheap.  

Well Flex has more complaints than the big three combined. As far as ignorance there is nothing hi-tech about that case that it could not be easily dupped or subbed. Kenwood and Yaesu saw a massive loss of parts sources with Tsunami and many suppliers gone for good and you did not see them discontinue any rigs because of it.

Flex is trying to play with big boys and act like a high roller when they are far from it. They are real good at excuses and BS though. The had a lot a practice with 5000.
And you know they have more complaints how? Someone elect you to keep track of it? I have seen complaints left and right about certain Icom radios failing. I loved my Kenwood TS-2000X I once owned but the dang thing had a birdie right in the middle of a popular satellite downlink.  The Yaesu 450 I owned had issues with ergonomics like too small of a tuning knob etc. etc. I worked in the retail end of the ham radio business. I've seen complaints about every type of radio out there. And yes, you are being ignorant! If nothing else changing the case would involve paying a lab to do type acceptance test again because of RF shielding considerations and such. You seem to want to  ignore that part of the money equation. Those test aren't cheap by any means. The big three afford such things for small radio upgrades by separating people like you from thousands of dollars for mediocre radios with substandard RX's.  A 600 dollar Flex 1500 RX beats radios out there that cost a couple of thousand easy. I know, I've compared them. Get over yourself, the Japanese manufacturers are laughing at you all the way to the bank!
Michael, W4HIJ
4  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex-5000 Discontinued on: May 18, 2013, 06:42:10 PM
My understanding from the Dayton interview I just watched is that they didn't have a lot of options as far as continuing to manufacture the 5K. The vendor they got the cases from was discontinuing that type of work and getting replacements/retooling would have driven the price of the 5K up closer to that of a 6500. Especially a 5K with a 2nd RX option. Good radios get discontinued all the time because of parts sources drying up. 

You believe everything Flex says when their claim and timelines are seldom true. Case is a poor excuse as they could of used another off shelf case and called it a 5100. As far as parts it is not that old. I would not say it was a good radio either because as many or more people hated them than loved them. I would like to see a rig with same amount of complaints. None come remotely close. 
Every rig and  every brand out there has it's share of complaints against it and has detractors. All have faults. I have yet to find a perfect radio and I doubt one exist nor will it ever exist.  You show your ignorance by claiming that any off the shelf case could be used. Changing cases would not only involve re engineering but most important of all, it would require a new round of testing for type acceptance which isn't cheap.  Maybe the big three can afford that for a slightly updated rig that they tack a "D" designation on but a smaller company like Flex can't. Not without passing it on in the form of a price increase for the radio and when that price increase would drive the price up near to the next model up, it doesn't make logical business sense to do so. I have no dog in this fight as I can't afford the high end radios anyway but I know what makes sense and what doesn't.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
5  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex-5000 Discontinued on: May 18, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
My understanding from the Dayton interview I just watched is that they didn't have a lot of options as far as continuing to manufacture the 5K. The vendor they got the cases from was discontinuing that type of work and getting replacements/retooling would have driven the price of the 5K up closer to that of a 6500. Especially a 5K with a 2nd RX option. Good radios get discontinued all the time because of parts sources drying up.  The Yaesu FT-847 HF/satellite radio is a perfect example of that. An excellent rig that died before it's time. I expect you will see something to fill the gap between the 3K and the 6500/6700 series soon enough especially with the competition from Apache heating up.
 Honestly I could see the 5K demise coming back as soon as the VHF/UHF modules disappeared. If I could afford it, I'd still like to have a fully decked with all options, including VHF/UHF, 5K even if it was used.  Still love my 1500 but seriously miss my 5K.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
6  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Dayton SDR News? on: May 17, 2013, 07:59:09 PM
Alinco reports their DX-SR9T will beready the ship in a couple of months.  This looks drastically different than what they were showing last year, and it appears to have become a hybrid oof sorts. Here's it's cut sheet
http://m9.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/TwoSevenRight/IMG_20130517_210058_663_zpsb8adcdc9.jpg.html?o=1&newest=1
Alinco seems to do alright with VHF/UHF handhelds and mobile rigs, at least the ones I've owned in the past. But judging by some of their previous entries into the HF market, I don't know if I can get excited about them doing an SDR.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
7  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Much Flex-6000 News on: May 17, 2013, 07:52:18 PM
if you have your name in the order queu it is rather exciting too!

They say that a fool and his money are soon parted, but Flex did even better, they made the fools part with their money retroactively!
That's a wee bit harsh isn't it? No one forced anyone to part with their money. The terms of
pre-ordering a 6000 Series radio were made up front and center. IF someone accepted those
terms, then that is on them. AND, as has already happened, people are free to ask for, and
receive a refund of any money they have paid in. Some have only paid a deposit and are waiting
for notice of shipment to make final payment. Others, paid in full. But, the fact that they can get
their money back, no questions asked, is ok in my book.
 I am looking forward to the time they are available just as the other Flex radios are. But, if I get the itch for a new SDR radio (besides my Flex 1500) , I might just spring for an Anan 100D.
I like the concept of open source and the availability of quicker fixes for bugs etc.
james
WD5GWY
 
Easy there James. Don't bring rational thought and reason into a conversation with a Flex basher. You'll fry out the brain cells in their narrow little minds! Cheesy
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
8  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex 6700 vs Anan 100D on: May 10, 2013, 09:25:24 AM
It seems like there are a lot of cool things in the works for these radios, I know I am looking forward to mine.  Look for an interesting announcement at Dayton as well.

What's ironic in a way as just as Flex has moved the processing back to the radio, it looks like the possibilities of processing at the PC might up the Antne!

These are becoming exciting SDR times!

Lets see what unfolds!

NI0Z
Yes, the competition benefits us all. Maybe someday I will see my dream of a turn key or near turn key, 2M/70cm all mode SDR designed exclusively for weak signal and satellite work.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
9  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: Making sure the antenna stays where it's supposed to.... on: May 09, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
My Cushcraft MA5B gets turned in the wrong direction by the wind on occasion. I though maybe the antenna was loose on the mast above the rotator but every time I've checked it, it's as tight as I can get. I just have to rotate the Rohn telescoping mast at a joint and aim it again and that usually last me for awhile. Fortunately I have easy access to the antenna and supporting structure.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
10  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex 6700 vs Anan 100D on: May 09, 2013, 10:20:43 AM

I did not read the entire article on the HLA amps by W8JI but took the time to skim over the important parts. At one point he did find a drive level that produced an acceptable IMD if I recall. I didn't mean to imply it was bad thing to give us "worst case IMD"  but I think more information would be helpful like "half power IMD"  for instance. I would agree that a varying tone test would give us a better indicator of real world use. Not only with voice but with digital.  I mean how many different tones are there in a JT-65 or PSK-31 signal. How about SSTV?  Just saying, "OK I fired this rig up on 40 meters at full power and found the worst case IMD to be X" is not enough information in my opinion and I don't think it's wholly what you should judge the TX on anyway especially considering most ops will not be putting it in a worst case scenario that often. I will take the time, when I can find it, to read more on W8JI's site. Right now I'm planning and researching some new antennas!
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
IF people did drive an amp like the HLA 150 (like the one W8JI used in his tests) with lower drive
it would as he stated result in lower IMD products. If I remember correctly he said if output from the amp was kept to 90 watts or less, then results would be acceptable. The IMD products would still be there, but, much weaker and less noticeable to stations away from the main signal.
But, what some would respond by saying is, most users would drive the amp to full output.
For instance, my Flex 1500 (already noted to have poor IMD numbers on 40 meters, but, decent numbers on the rest of the HF bands, as tested by the ARRL) only puts out 5 watts max.  A lot of users would want to drive the amp with full output from the radio and that would drive it beyond
90 watts to something like 110 watts or so. At that point, problems might occur.
My point in the above statement, is, most, but not all Amateurs, would not drive an amp like the RM Italy at half power to avoid splatter. And for transceivers with problem numbers (even at 100 watts output) the same thing would happen. Most would tend to run it full out. Unless, they were driving an amp that did not require 100 watts to produce decent output. Otherwise, most people would be tempted to run it full bore.
I think it would be rare for someone to run a transmitter or amp at half power. Not that it does not happen, but, most would want to get all they can out of their equipment. ( listen to the 40 and 80 meter power houses sometimes.............full bore most of the time for the really strong stations)
There are some things that SDR developers can do in software to help reduce IMD on transmit. And as I understand it, the developers of the opensource software for the Anan radios are working on doing just that. And Flex Radio has mentioned on their reflectors that the same is being developed for the 6000 Series radios. So, there are ways to fix the problems.
  I am really leaning towards an Anan 100D or even the Anan 10 at some point in the not so distant future. Even the numbers that I have found on Apache Lab's website, seem to indicate
that the IMD numbers for their radios are pretty good. And with developers working on ways to reduce it even further, then that is a big step in the right direction.
Interesting discussion!!
james
WD5GWY

James,
You and I have had a similar discussion to this before. I'll have to concede that a lot of hams will run everything at full output unless conditions such as driving an amp or running digital modes force them not to do so and there are a lot out there who run way too much power on digital and are going to splatter up the bands anyway. However, I still think it's wrong to judge a rig solely on IMD numbers or it's suitability for driving an amplifier based on the worst case of those numbers.  I'd wager there are  a lot of rigs in the market place right now that won't cut the mustard if judging solely by such standards. From what I've read Zenki seems to want to indict every last 12 volt amplifier design out there and that seems pretty outlandish to me. In case he hasn't noticed, 13.8 volts is pretty much the standard for running a modern day transceiver.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
11  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex 6700 vs Anan 100D on: May 08, 2013, 03:40:11 PM
Blah blah blah....same ole same ole from Zenki except now it sounds like he wants us all to totally forget about  receive performance in the name of IMD. Seems Zenki would be satisfied with a crystal and a cat whisker just as long as his IMD was spectacular. As far as IMD, I wish the labs would give us more information than "worst case IMD" at full power.  A lot of folks use rigs at reduced power, either driving an amp or running some type of low power digital mode. It might be interesting to know where things shake out in real world applications.  Just sayin...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
I think that giving us "worst case IMD" is a good thing. It does give us some yardstick to go by
when considering amplifiers etc.  Take a look at W8JI's website, he has some very interesting things to say about the methods the ARRL and others, use when testing IMD. The accepted use
of two tones makes sense, but, at the same time, the variances of the human voice do make
a difference in test results, and in real world results. My voice might be higher pitched than yours and yours could be much lower and those differences can effect IMD suppression in the same
transmitter or amplifier. W8JI says that a test that varies the tones between a selected high
point and low point would give a better indication of IMD generated in actual use.
Even Zenki has mentioned the same differences between using the two tone test and actual human voice effects on IMD products.  I know from some of the reading that I have done concerning IMD, that the use of two tones was to create a standard of measurement that can
be used between all types of transmitters and amplifiers. W8JI seems to be saying that his idea
could be implemented and give better, and possibly, more accurate results.
   I know that Zenki can be very frustrating at times with his caustic remarks, but, he does have some valid points. But, he rarely, ever, backs his points up with real statistics. And as I said earlier, he won't give any background, his name or anything like that, that would lend any level
of confidence to his statements. If he said I'm, Joe Smith and I'm an engineer with XYZ corp and have several patents in RF design etc. Then, I would be more inclined to agree with him.
But, when he jumps on products that he is almost certain not to own (Flex 6000 Series) then I have to question his statements.
   I will be very surprised if he comes back to this thread (if at all) and makes any positive, helpful comments on this subject. Much less, offers some background on himself and his qualifications to make those statements.
  Unlike W8JI, who is well known and respected in his field, we know nothing about Zenki other than he is a constant complainer.
james
WD5GWY
 
I did not read the entire article on the HLA amps by W8JI but took the time to skim over the important parts. At one point he did find a drive level that produced an acceptable IMD if I recall. I didn't mean to imply it was bad thing to give us "worst case IMD"  but I think more information would be helpful like "half power IMD"  for instance. I would agree that a varying tone test would give us a better indicator of real world use. Not only with voice but with digital.  I mean how many different tones are there in a JT-65 or PSK-31 signal. How about SSTV?  Just saying, "OK I fired this rig up on 40 meters at full power and found the worst case IMD to be X" is not enough information in my opinion and I don't think it's wholly what you should judge the TX on anyway especially considering most ops will not be putting it in a worst case scenario that often. I will take the time, when I can find it, to read more on W8JI's site. Right now I'm planning and researching some new antennas!
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
12  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: Flex 6700 vs Anan 100D on: May 08, 2013, 02:28:00 PM
Blah blah blah....same ole same ole from Zenki except now it sounds like he wants us all to totally forget about  receive performance in the name of IMD. Seems Zenki would be satisfied with a crystal and a cat whisker just as long as his IMD was spectacular. As far as IMD, I wish the labs would give us more information than "worst case IMD" at full power.  A lot of folks use rigs at reduced power, either driving an amp or running some type of low power digital mode. It might be interesting to know where things shake out in real world applications.  Just sayin...
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
13  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: PowerSDR 2.6.4 - Huge Disappointment on: May 06, 2013, 02:46:28 PM
"the Flex 5K will likely not see new features in PowerSDR unless they come by virtue of updates really targeted at 1500 & 3000 users"

Explain.

Whats to explain?  Do you know of any new development specifically targeted at new features for the 5K?  Unless the price is dropped significantly the 6500 will likely be the mid range radio.  The lower models have a different price point that will allow them still to be viable selling products for a little while longer.  Still though, I predict we will see more compettion coming soon that will make those less attractive.

As an SDR the Flex 5K has pretty much matured, it has the basic software covered and is end of marketing life.  Most Flex 5Ks sold now will be on the used market.

Of course this is merely my humble opinion and not based on any facts.

As a current active Flex 5K user I am not really expecting anything new for that radio.
If I can ever afford one on the used market, I would truly like to have a fully decked out 5k including the VHF/UHF module. It's ashamed they could not keep producing those. I know they were criticized but I believe it was some sort of parts supply issue that bit them. I still like the concept of an  all in one rig that covers up into the uHF range. I had a TS-2000X which actually covered 1.2 Ghz as well. It was a nice radio except for the birdies.
Speaking of VHF/UHF  coverage though, is the 6700/6500 going to have the ability to use  transverters in a full duplex configuration? Seems like it would.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
14  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: PowerSDR 2.6.4 - Huge Disappointment on: May 05, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
   As for belittling people on public forums for their choice of equipment, it's not just in Amateur radio forums that happens. I used to be into woodworking and some of those forums can be just
as brutal if you are not using name brand equipment to produce something. Post a photo of a project and not mention equipment use to make it and you'll get all kinds of positive comments. But, add that you did it with a low cost table saw, then you'll be told how your work would be
better if you used a top of the line cabinet saw.  People being people seems to be the norm in
most forums and people don't want to think a person could make something as good as they did without spending a ton of money for the best of the best.
james
WD5GWY


I agree completely.  I am a member of a martial arts forum and there are plenty of similar nonsense debates that amount to nothing.  And I have some friends that insist that the only good trucks are made by GM.  They are actually insulted by Ford, or (gasp) Toyota owners.  Brand loyalty is an interesting thing.

I see both sides of some of the Flex debates.  Some are offended that anyone likes their Flex radio and some are offended that anyone would say anything critical about their Flex radio.  I do believe that comments about specs, operating the rig, and ones experiences with the manufacturer are fair game and should not lead to hurt feelings and arguments.

In the end, I'd like to see Flex succeed.  It's good for amateur radio to have as several viable radio manufacturers.
I'd like to see Flex succeed and I think they are doing so. I'd also like to see the Apache Labs products do well. I was hoping for the Elecraft KX-3 to do well and I think it is although I knew they were blowing smoke when they promised it at the price point of the 1500 and they were. The more manufacturers in the SDR arena, the better and competition is a good thing. Some guys are never going to give up their tried and true "conventional" radios and I understand that. By the same token, I expect people to understand that I will never go back to an radio with a "conventional" front panel again. There has been way too many times on this forum when some one posted some problem with their Flex radio and when I've said nothing harsher than "Sorry, I never have experienced that problem" I've gotten jumped on with both feet by several parties.  I've often thought "maybe I won't go there anymore" because of the way a vocal minority here have acted towards me but I enjoy many e-ham forums besides this one and also there is a lot going on in the SDR field besides just what Flex is doing and this is a great place for info on it.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
15  eHam Forums / Software Defined Radio / RE: PowerSDR 2.6.4 - Huge Disappointment on: May 05, 2013, 01:02:11 AM
Well whether or not I got a new radio or not with the last upgrade, my 1500 is still the best bang for the buck out there! I've actually forgotten what it was like to have to listen to the crummy substandard RX's that the Japanese companies put in their low end rigs! I've owned a lot of the "big threes" low end and medium range rigs over the years and during my years in the retail end of the ham radio biz, I got to play with a lot of their high end stuff as well. My little 1500 sounds as good or better than the high end Japanese radios I remember. Oops....fanboy alert! I guess the moral is that if you make a good rig you will have fanboys...and girls.... Cheesy Cheesy As I've said many times though,enjoy what you like, no one forces you to buy any particular brand of radio. There are some guys out there who get their kicks refurbishing old Heathkits, Hallicrafters and Collins. No my cup of tea but if that's what they like I'm certainly not going to constantly try to shout down and belittle them on a public forum.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
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