Yep, all radios eventually get discontinued. Just like computers, cars and a ton of other stuff.
We live in a throw away world.
 It will be interesting to see what Flex replaces their older radios with. Something in the price range of the 3000 would be nice. Or even a qrp rig like the 1500.
james
WD5GWY

That's a wee bit harsh isn't it? No one forced anyone to part with their money. The terms of
pre-ordering a 6000 Series radio were made up front and center. IF someone accepted those
terms, then that is on them. AND, as has already happened, people are free to ask for, and
receive a refund of any money they have paid in. Some have only paid a deposit and are waiting
for notice of shipment to make final payment. Others, paid in full. But, the fact that they can get
their money back, no questions asked, is ok in my book.
 I am looking forward to the time they are available just as the other Flex radios are. But, if I get the itch for a new SDR radio (besides my Flex 1500) , I might just spring for an Anan 100D.
I like the concept of open source and the availability of quicker fixes for bugs etc.
james
WD5GWY
 

I really wasn't trying to be negative about the upcoming release of the 6000 Series Radios.
And I did do a Google Search for: " Flex 6700" and there were some 20+ pages of hits.
Of those, the only specific hits that I found were from Steve's Blog, which contained a link
to the un-boxing by one person. Who, as I mentioned earlier, was an Alpha Tester and the
person who got Flex Radio to come to the Vaselia DX event.
But, I never found another post from anyone else, who claims to have received their production
Flex 6500 or 6700. Not a single one. Not in Flex Radio's Yahoo forums either. Steve is the first
person to post an update from Flex Radio that says anything about shipping. Other than six
weeks AFTER Dayton. Now, who will be getting a radio six weeks after Dayton is anyone's guess.
It could be the expanded beta group or actual early buyers.
I'm 99% certain that had anyone else besides the guy mentioned, received their new radio,
they would have posted it on the Yahoo Forums or Flex's Facebook page. (not there either)
  I don't think that Steve is advertising for Flex, I think he is just getting excited about the
possibility of getting his new radio. And I don't blame him for that one bit.
I just think it is still a bit premature to start celebrating the arrival of the radios as there has
only been ONE radio confirmed shipped. The rest are MIA.
james
WD5GWY
 

One person who just happens to be an Alpha tester and the guy who got Flex to setup at Veselia? He is the ONLY person anywhere reporting having received a 6000 Series radio. Not exactly exciting news for all the rest of the early buy-in's.
What did Gerald say? "ho hum we're shipping". One radio....REALLY? Thats exciting news? Post more in six weeks AFTER Dayton when more exciting news develops.
james
WD5GWY

ZENKI, I'm sorry I missed your last post here. This has to be one of the best,
most thought out, reply's that I have ever read from you. Thank you for your
VERY informative post. I would think that anyone who reads this could not
help but understand your position about this amp and others like it. And your
reasons(well founded) for being so (forcefully) against it.
  I hope that this post will give other hams who are considering using an amp
like the RM Italy HLA-300, reason to reconsider their thoughts before spending
money on one. I agree, that most hams, that buy one would in most cases want
to use it to it's fullest potential(output). With low drive, ( 5 watts or less) it might
not be so bad. BUT, even on the link you posted to, there is a mod to allow the amp
to put out nearly 500 watts with only 5 or so watts of drive. Something that a lot
of people might be tempted to do.
  Again, thank you for this post.
james
WD5GWY
 

IF people did drive an amp like the HLA 150 (like the one W8JI used in his tests) with lower drive
it would as he stated result in lower IMD products. If I remember correctly he said if output from the amp was kept to 90 watts or less, then results would be acceptable. The IMD products would still be there, but, much weaker and less noticeable to stations away from the main signal.
But, what some would respond by saying is, most users would drive the amp to full output.
For instance, my Flex 1500 (already noted to have poor IMD numbers on 40 meters, but, decent numbers on the rest of the HF bands, as tested by the ARRL) only puts out 5 watts max.  A lot of users would want to drive the amp with full output from the radio and that would drive it beyond
90 watts to something like 110 watts or so. At that point, problems might occur.
My point in the above statement, is, most, but not all Amateurs, would not drive an amp like the RM Italy at half power to avoid splatter. And for transceivers with problem numbers (even at 100 watts output) the same thing would happen. Most would tend to run it full out. Unless, they were driving an amp that did not require 100 watts to produce decent output. Otherwise, most people would be tempted to run it full bore.
I think it would be rare for someone to run a transmitter or amp at half power. Not that it does not happen, but, most would want to get all they can out of their equipment. ( listen to the 40 and 80 meter power houses sometimes.............full bore most of the time for the really strong stations)
There are some things that SDR developers can do in software to help reduce IMD on transmit. And as I understand it, the developers of the opensource software for the Anan radios are working on doing just that. And Flex Radio has mentioned on their reflectors that the same is being developed for the 6000 Series radios. So, there are ways to fix the problems.
  I am really leaning towards an Anan 100D or even the Anan 10 at some point in the not so distant future. Even the numbers that I have found on Apache Lab's website, seem to indicate
that the IMD numbers for their radios are pretty good. And with developers working on ways to reduce it even further, then that is a big step in the right direction.
Interesting discussion!!
james
WD5GWY

I think that giving us "worst case IMD" is a good thing. It does give us some yardstick to go by
when considering amplifiers etc.  Take a look at W8JI's website, he has some very interesting things to say about the methods the ARRL and others, use when testing IMD. The accepted use
of two tones makes sense, but, at the same time, the variances of the human voice do make
a difference in test results, and in real world results. My voice might be higher pitched than yours and yours could be much lower and those differences can effect IMD suppression in the same
transmitter or amplifier. W8JI says that a test that varies the tones between a selected high
point and low point would give a better indication of IMD generated in actual use.
Even Zenki has mentioned the same differences between using the two tone test and actual human voice effects on IMD products.  I know from some of the reading that I have done concerning IMD, that the use of two tones was to create a standard of measurement that can
be used between all types of transmitters and amplifiers. W8JI seems to be saying that his idea
could be implemented and give better, and possibly, more accurate results.
   I know that Zenki can be very frustrating at times with his caustic remarks, but, he does have some valid points. But, he rarely, ever, backs his points up with real statistics. And as I said earlier, he won't give any background, his name or anything like that, that would lend any level
of confidence to his statements. If he said I'm, Joe Smith and I'm an engineer with XYZ corp and have several patents in RF design etc. Then, I would be more inclined to agree with him.
But, when he jumps on products that he is almost certain not to own (Flex 6000 Series) then I have to question his statements.
   I will be very surprised if he comes back to this thread (if at all) and makes any positive, helpful comments on this subject. Much less, offers some background on himself and his qualifications to make those statements.
  Unlike W8JI, who is well known and respected in his field, we know nothing about Zenki other than he is a constant complainer.
james
WD5GWY
 

I have to agree about that statement completely.
james
WD5GWY

  I don't really find his posts annoying, but, rather poorly stated and on the verge (at times) of being belligerent. And except in a very few instances, he does not substantiate his claims about IMD issues with different radios. Unless he is one of the few beta testers for Flex Radio, he has nothing to back up his claim concerning their latest radio's IMD performance other than the same,
tired old argument about 12 volt FET's  and PA designs.  I have even read a post where he said that 12 volt PA's could be designed to be very clean and done so inexpensively.
If that were true, then why has no company followed his advice? Maybe he works for one of the companies he keeps ranting about. Maybe, he has tried in his job, to get them to make the changes he says needs to be made and failed. BUT, all this is conjecture on my part and until he can actually back up his claims with FACTS and FIGURES ( which he did do in the Amplifier Forum concerning the RM Italy amps) from tests that HE has made, then he just appears to be another forum troll.
  I too am concerned with IMD and because of his statements concerning the RM Italy amps, specifically the HLA-150 and HLA-300(which he FINALLY did say he tested and offered his results) that is one reason I have never bought an HLA-300.
 But, to continually rail against something and not back it up with proof AND being willing to
identify one's self, (which he will not do) it is no different than me making such statements and using some other user name other than my callsign and name, then there is nothing to add credence to my statements. There would be no proof, such as a background in RF engineering,
that would demonstrate that I knew what I was talking about.
And that is the problem with Zinki. He gives no background, no way to add validity to his statements. He could just be a very bitter ex-employe of any one of a number of companies that he has made his statements against.
  I like reading his posts to a point. But, when all he can do, or will do, is post how everything is another crap CB amplifier design, then anything he might have said of substance has been lost.
james
WD5GWY

     

Just how do you know that either of these radios have poor IMD performance?
Have you tested either one or both? Since only the Anan radios are currently
available, do you have one? If so, post the results of your tests.
Simply saying that because they use 12 volt parts alone is not proof that their
transmitters are poor performers, IMD wise.
I'm beginning to think as others do, that you simply keep posting the same thing
with no proof that(outside of what you did post in the Amplifier section about the
RM Italy amp's) just because they are using 12 volt parts, that they are unable to
make them work properly and not emit excessive IMD products.
One statement used where I live is, "Put up, or shut up".
james
WD5GWY
   

Based on what tests that you have done or aware of, do you make this statement?
james
WD5GWY

Apache Labs has said that they will be at Dayton. But, they may or may not, be able to bring
any radios to sell. They said they planned to demo the radios there. But, could not say if they
would be allowed to bring anything to sell. If they did, I'd almost bet they would sell out the
first day!
james
WD5GWY

Yep, interesting times indeed. It's nice to see more companies getting into
the SDR market. It just might make some prices drop a bit sooner than later.
  SmartSDR is indeed a "thin client" as it is only an interface from whatever computer
you run it on, to the radio and it's built in cpu etc. Depending on what Flex
decides to expose in the API's they have said they will be releasing to developers,
there should be applications coming (or at least easily developed for) all sorts of
networked devices. (wired and wireless) I think that will really help Flex Radio sell
the new radios, (barring any major bugs in the firmware itself).
  As for the early reviews by people that have been using the Alpha software etc.
I still think that their thoughts and opinions are valid. The one posted on the blog
by the guy that setup the station at Visalia, is very enthusiastic. But, at the same
time he did note that there were several common functions in the software that were
not working. He could have glossed over those, but, he did not.
Sure there was a lot of excitement in his statements, and why not? It's a new radio
and he got a chance (along with a lot of other people at the convention) to use the
radio. warts and all. He did not report any crashes or anything like that. And that was
with Alpha software that had only recently had transmit capabilities added to it.
  It will be interesting to see the actual numbers from the ARRL and others, once the
radio has been in general release.
james
WD5GWY

Oh, I forgot to say, I think that comparing the initial release of SmartSDR to PowerSDR
which is a more mature product, might be a bit lopsided. I believe like others, that, other
than some very basic functions, that SmartSDR will not really be ready for prime time, when
it does go public with the radios. Whereas, PowerSDR has had a lot of development time devoted
to it and a lot of bugs eliminated and improvements made to it. I would think the comparison would be more valid in a year or two, when SmartSDR has had more development time devoted to it.
 
  

There is an app on Google's store called: Pocket RxTx that might be
what you are looking for. I have it on my SII, but, currently use it for
receive only. (with another SDR radio hooked to the web) Works pretty
well.
james
WD5GWY

Steve, read the same thing on the Flex Yahoo Group. Also, noted that it is part of an
"extended" beta group. Don't know if that is the extent of the shipping or not. If not,
then there will be a lot of early buy in's that will be disappointed. I have read a couple
of posts from people that bought in at Dayton last year and have not received any notification
of shipment or final payment request from Flex. Some have already paid out and are only
awaiting notice of shipment. Lots of folks on edge about this one. I do hope that Flex
starts shipping to more than just a select few "beta testers". Otherwise, they will take a pounding
on all the forums and user groups. (even more than they already get)
 One thing I noticed from the previous newsletter that was posted to the public on the Yahoo Group, is the radio's slice sizes have been upped dramatically!! From a max of 384Khz each to several Mhz in a single slice!
 That seems to have been lost in all the other talk. How useful that might be is open to debate.
Without a very broad banded antenna, it might not be that useful. But, an interesting development all the same. Having played around with the 6700 at Belton, just made me want one more! But, it's not going to happen for me anytime soon. (work in the oilfield in my area has fell WAY off!)
But, maybe by the time things pick up, I'll be able to afford one!
james
WD5GWY