Thanks, Dennis.

Since ARES and similar groups are trying serve agencies that are required to adopt the ICS, perhaps it's time for ARES and other to drop the Radiogram and just go with the ICS-213, even if it's in the Radiogram form.  Even if not being used for such an agency the ICS-213 will work.

Just a thought.

One of our local fire districts, a combination paid/volunteer department, has a division for search and rescue. All volunteer, the S&R group has specialists in equine S&R, canine S&R and large animal rescue. They also have a communications team that handles all communications needs on scene.

The communications team is also utilized by the fire district when their large command vehicle, funded in large part by Homeland Security, is requested. The command vehicle is a behemoth truck outfitted with all sort of communications equipment, commercial/public safety and amateur bands, and is supposed to be for the use of requesting agencies within about 15 or 20 counties in two states, plus other areas as needed.

For their S&R ops they usually use encrypted systems on the public safety side. They also use various local, regional, state and national frequencies, as authorized by the fire district and the ICs of the various incidents. This team is used pretty regularly.

Most members also belong to a group called "Volunteer Communications," (I suspect they just needed a name for the FCC) who do the public service work at many local parades, fairs, etc. -- the kind of stuff that hams do elsewhere. For those events they use a commercial band system.

Many team members are licensed amateurs, although most got their licenses as part of their work for the team. Many have GROLs or other commercial licenses. The ham licenses allow them the flexibility if necessary, but their public safety system is pretty thorough. I doubt any have taken the Intro to Emcomm course through the ARRL or are even members of the ARRL, let alone ARES or RACES.

In many ways, it's similar to an ARES or a RACES group but they use primarily public safety bands.

I'm wondering if other areas have a similar group. I can't help but think they prevent local ham groups from being considered for public service work -- not that it's a bad thing.

I'm curious as to what form ARES or other emergency communications groups are using for message handling.

ICS-213 or the ARRL Radiogram.

If it's the ICS-213, is it the original FEMA version or the modified "ARES" version, which is essentially the Radiogram that looks like an ICS-213.

Finally, if using the ICS-213, are you using the ARL numbers? It seems to me that the ARL numbers would defeat the principal that plain English is supposed to be used, although they do add brevity to the messages.

Thanks

Teak
KD0KVV

I like that you call them conflicting priorities. That's the heart of the issue.

I tend to agree with you on the protection. Since I don't have much of a need for rapid deployment, as in grab the box and scoot right this minute, nor do I foresee much need in being able to be on the air in 5 minutes versus 18 minutes, I tend to like the padded cases.

I know a few guys who use their shack-in-a-box as both their home shack and go box. That's incredibly convenient but likely requires a room or space dedicated as a radio shack. My wife would kick me out of the house if a Gator box full of radios essentially became a piece of furniture. (My "shack" is just my corner of the family room. Above my desk I have a nice custom shelf that matches the decor and holds my radios. It's pretty clean and tidy and is pretty discreet.)

One solution for the protection is to use bushings as shock absorbers. It's not an end-all solution but could help a little.

I like this setup a lot:

http://www.tac-comm.com/

I saw it at a recent ham fest with a stack three high.

They could be transported in a Pelican case, one radio or radio/tuner per unit and then pulled out of the case as needed.

EmComm should be considered a method of operating, not an activity. The method can be used to perform a service for an agency or it can be used just to keep up our skills of self-sufficient operations.

We shouldn't think of EmComm as ARES or RACES or SKYWARN. Those are groups that use EmComm methods, but isn't EmComm also just a guy who decided to set up a battery-powered station just to see what he could do in that sort of situation?

EmComm folks have all sorts of reasons for being involved with this aspect of amateur radio. For some it's a formal thing: official affiliation, official ID card, official SKYWARN logo, etc. For others it's just a challenge to see what they can do off the grid and with parts they had in the garage.

As for the training and background checks: those are requirements of the served agencies, so many groups that offer services to those agencies require the training and checks to be listed as a deployable volunteer. It's the agencies driving it, not ARES or the ARRL.

The Department of Homeland Security and FEMA require NIMS and ICS training of all agencies that wish to participate in federal assistance programs. Perhaps it makes us uncomfortable but it makes sense. One of the biggest communications failures of 9/11 wasn't the elimination of the grid but the inability of multiple organizations to effectively communicate due to lack of technical interoperability and difference in radio lingo. Homeland Security Presidential Directives 5 & 8 were established to help address those issues, among many others.

Effective mitigation of an incident requires that all those participating be operating under the same umbrella, with the same incident action plan. The only way to ensure that is to have a singular system (the National Incident Management System) with a singular command structure (Incident Command System). This includes communications so, amateur radio operators who wish to volunteer their services to assist agencies need to have that training. The same holds true for people who want to volunteer as firefighters, EMTs, hospital workers, disaster assistance workers, etc.

If a ham doesn't want to go through that training, fine. He or she can still be involved in EmComm and is still a valuable resource. Shunning hams who dig EmComm just because they aren't affiliated with an ARES group or just because they don't understand message handling or NVIS is just unfriendly.

No ham is "more EmComm" than another just because he has  completed FEMA's Independent Study courses and passed a background check.

All hams should be welcome in all aspects of radio, but there are some situations that require more than a license to participate.

We've all heard how many times amateur radio operators have been of great service to communities after disasters. Some of us have actually experienced it but I suspect most have not.

I'll add one more testimonial for the importance of radio emergency communications.

I work for the Archdiocese of St. Louis and am a member of the recently formed emergency response committee, which is charged with the responsibility of being the support liaisons for our parishes, schools and agencies in the event of a disaster. The committee was created after some tornadoes came through the area in the last year causing severe damage to a parish rectory, minor some damage to a parish church and much damage to the homes of parishioners.

One member of the committee works for Catholic Charities, a federation of charitable agencies that is part of the archdiocese. Since May 22, she has spent a sum of about about 3 months in Joplin, Mo. assisting that diocese's Catholic Charities with providing relief efforts for people impact by the tornado. The opening statement of her eloquent and very touching story of triumph amid devastation went something close to this:

"The first and greatest obstacle we faced in Joplin was communications. The telephone systems were down and the cellular networks were either destroyed or overloaded. The only reason we were able to provide the service we did is because of the ham radio operators, who were able to provide the only reliable communications among agencies and shelters. We must establish relationships with the local hams who will offer their services if we ever have a major disaster."

Amateur radio is indeed valuable in a real and practical way. We're not first responders zipping out with lights and sirens to save the day. But even if we just coordinate the distribution of supplies to shelters and relief centers or pass along welfare messages when the main communications infrastructure is compromised, people appreciate the service.

Teak
KD0KVV

They're called many things: go-kits, go-boxes, rapid deployment kits. The purpose is to provide a transportable ham shack that can be used remotely.

Many hams build them out of a sense of readiness. When all else fails, they'll be there with their Gator case and 80 pounds of gear. Or, even if all else doesn't fail, some hams will just be there in the park or on the beach with their radios making QSOs.

There are scores of videos and webpages devoted to the go-kit. Some are elaborate, like KH7O's panel-mounted kit in a pelican case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmnnf0xUWNM, others are simple, practical and quite affordable, like KF7ETX's HT go bag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YihnXWsN6N8.

Rolling rack cases stuffed with gear are pretty cool and it is certainly convenient to have the radios, tuners, Rig Runners, clocks, speakers, a computer and cute little light all pre-connected and ready to go once an antenna is deployed. But I can't help but think they are just too much for many applications. Not that they have too much gear -- heck, who among us would not love a Winnebago ham shack with at least a dozen radios -- but that they tend to be cumbersome. Hoisting them atop a table can strain a fella's back. And who knows if there's even a table to use in a truly austere environment.

I'm growing partial to a rolling suitcase-style box, like the Pelican 1510 carry-on http://pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1510 with the adjustable dividers for more flexibility than the pluck-away foam. As a professional photographer (now a desk-jocky editor) I used this style of box for many years and never had a piece of equipment damaged while in the box. Sure, one has to connect the radios and tuners and cute little light every time it's deployed, but how long does that really take? And perhaps I only need to use the dual-bander and take up just a small part of a shared table, leaving the HF rig stowed. Also, I can use the gear in my home shack. Just unplug it, put it in the box and go. I don't see myself ever being deployed with only a minute to grab my gear and bail. Honestly, has that ever happened for emcomm volunteers going to offer assistance?

So, I ask you all the simple question: What is your preference? Do you like one of those self-contained, everything-already-connected monster rack boxes that seem to be the rage or a simple-yet-sturdy case that will hold your gear but not in a way that has to be preplanned by an architect or interior decorator? Or do you have some other system, like boat anchors hauled on a hand truck?

Why do you have your preference? Experience? Cool factor? Cost?

No wrong answers here, just fostering conversation.

Thanks

Teak
KD0KVV

OK, great. This sounds good.

I'll just go back to the random wire since it will be far easier and cheaper.

Would I be better wire vertically up the side of my house to get it elevation? The SW stations I will be listening to will be AM and SSB? If I were TXing I'd want horizontal polarization, but in this case will that really matter?

I look forward to SW listening when I pull the trigger on an HF rig in a few months, but for now the Grundig is fun to play with.

Thanks guys.

Teak

I have a Grundig G6 aviator that I use around home for casual SW listening. The internal whip antenna is not particularly efficient, obviously.

The radio has a 1/8" jack to attach an external antenna. I've used it with a homebrew random wire antenna about 20' long.

Could I use 300-ohm twin lead (the TV antenna line) as a beverage-type antenna?

I don't know much about that antenna style, so I wonder how long it should be and if I need to do anything to one of the leads?

My inclination is just to attach one lead to the positive post of the 1/8" jack and the other to the ground connection, but I'm unclear if that will accomplish anything more than the random wire?

I'll run the antenna along the top of my 6' wood privacy fence.

I'm not looking to tune it to anything specific -- not that it matter much since it's not for TX, just looking for a way to improve the RX and do it as an incredibly basic homebrew project. Hopefully I'll learn something in the process.

Suggestions?

As always, thanks for the great elmering on eham.

Teak

Great, thanks. Good job on the reply, this makes sense to me.

Like all the other stuff I'm learning in ham radio, this seems logical but could be impacted by all sorts of variables.

No hard-and-fast rules about radiation patterns, propagation, effect of terrain, etc. make this whole radio hobby a bit frustrating, but I guess that is the attraction. Making something work better with a few cheap tweaks is always fulfilling.

Teak
KD0KVV

I hope this is the right forum for this.

I've read a few references to building a 2m/70cm HT tigertail with two-wire primary wire (the stuff that has the red and black insulation bound together). The two conductors are spliced on one end,one wire is cut to about 6" and the other to about 19.5". The spliced end is connected to the collar of the antenna or the base of the antenna mount.

By combining the two wires, how is it that it's not just a 19.5" counterpoise? Does the 440mhz actually "see" the stop of the 6" section? It seems to me it would use the full 19.5".

And if it does see the full 19.5", what does it hurt? What happens when the counterpoise is 3 times longer than it needs to be?

Is it worth it or necessary to make the two-wire tigertail, or can I just get by with one 19.5" for the lower band?

Finally, would the gauge of the wire really matter? Using 18 or 20 ga. would make it more portable in a small case or my pocket.

Thanks to all.

Teak
KD0KVV

Well, sort of.

I stumbled upon this post about using grenade simulator bodies for hanging wire antennas.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/07/letter_re_antenna_launching_al.html

For those not inclined to follow the link, here's the nut graph:

The single best object I have found is an M69 [spherical steel] grenade simulator body (without the screw-in simulator fuse assembly). It is just a hollow metal ball with two holes in it. It is slightly smaller than a baseball and has enough heft to bring it right back to the ground. Simply run the rope through the holes and tie to itself and throw overhand like a baseball. (underhand never seems to work for some reason, though it is easier on the arm)

Sounds cool. Plus you can carry a grenade in your go-kit!

Has anyone tried it?

Great feedback, guys. Thanks a bunch.

I especially like the 1 wavelength approach. It makes it pretty easy to calculate.

Teak

Dear always helpful hams,

Is there a rule of thumb regarding separation distance for antennas to prevent desense or damage to radios?

Specifically, I am looking at multiple vhf or dual-band antennas: One for the base rig, one for running digital modes and one to split between two scanners. The scanner antenna will be an el-cheapo, probably not much more than a thin whip on a mount.

I have an eave-mounted mast extending about 8' above the roof, to the top of which is mounted a VHF/UHF ground plane vertical.

I could but the wire whip several feet below the dual-band antenna and probably not experience any problem. But where do I put a second dual-band ground plane vertical for running the digital modes on VHF.

If I elect to erect a vertical HF antenna, how far should it be from the VHF/UHF dual bands? I would likely put it on my garage, which is about 30 yards from the mast on the house.

Thanks guys.

Teak Phillips
KD0KVV
St. Louis, Mo.