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1  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: At what height does a ground level install turn into an elevated install? on: April 11, 2013, 09:59:54 PM
thank you all for the information.... I am gathering the pieces together to try this out.   
2  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: At what height does a ground level install turn into an elevated install? on: April 09, 2013, 10:39:26 AM
You are getting carried away in wanting absolute definitions with absolute rules of installation and then mixing and matching situations.

-If radials are not in contact with the ground, they are elevated

-If the antenna is not in close proximity to the ground it is elevated

*If an antenna and/or the radials are raised 1 inch above ground does the performance of the antenna dramatically change?   No.
 
*Do rules about the number of radials required dramatically change?  No.  It's not cut and dried that this '1 inch elevated antenna' now only requires two resonant radials per band, whereas 1 inch lower and it need 36 radials for optimum performance. 
 
It's relative.  The lower the antenna system, the more it is affected by earth. The higher it is the more it performs like an antenna system in free space.

Thank you, the way you explained it I can understand.....

Just to see what happens I guess what I will try is I will mount it about 3-4ft above ground and try it with 4 elevated radials, then try it at the same height and drop the 4 radials to lay on the ground.

thank you again
3  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: At what height does a ground level install turn into an elevated install? on: April 09, 2013, 09:55:49 AM
Here is what is confusing, if it is 1/10 - WL as you say, a multiband antenna at 5-8ft off the ground should have both ground and elevated radials!

In my case I want to use a S9v 31' as a monople antenna,  and do a A/B comparrison with an R7 I also have mounted in my yard. I am not too happy with the R7 on 40m, the rest of the band is fine.
I am not sure which way to install it, I would like to use the least amount of radials as possible and still perform better than R7. I was not sure if mounting it 3-4ft off the ground meant it would be considered an elevated antenna which would need elevated radials.
4  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / At what height does a ground level install turn into an elevated install? on: April 09, 2013, 08:41:40 AM
This is something I still have not found a definate answer too.
This is pertaining to vertical antennas, in my case a S9V 31ft.
When you read about mounting or installing antennas, at what height does a ground level install turn to elevated install with elevated radials? Is it 1', 2' or Huh??
5  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: wire antenna 3ft from the side of a house - wall of stucco and chicken wire on: April 08, 2013, 03:35:11 PM
Thanks for the replies....
Yes it is a vertial wire 31ft, actually it is a S9v 31' antenna. I had been using the pole without the inside wire as a end support for other home made antennas. I just decided to try it with the wire in it as it was intended to be used for and that is why I asked this question. The stucco wall is only 12' tall and 3' away from the ground mount and I was hoping it could work. If not I will sink another pole into the ground.
6  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / wire antenna 3ft from the side of a house - wall of stucco and chicken wire on: April 08, 2013, 01:24:52 PM
I was thinking of trying to hang a 31ft wire in a teloscopic pole.
Because I have an existing mounting pipe already in the gound It will be easiest for me to hang this about 3 ft from the North side of the house, YES the walls are Stucco w/chicken wire.
Is this a stupid idea to try, should I just dig a hole elsewhere in the yard and bury another pipe?
7  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: MFJ259B and a manual coil antenna on: January 21, 2013, 06:28:58 AM
Dale - Thanks for the reply, I was doing it right, but I had a doubt and needed a confirmation.
8  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / MFJ259B and a manual coil antenna on: January 20, 2013, 09:53:24 AM
When using a MFJ259B to adjust an antenna, specifically a mobile antenna that has an adjustable coil but not motorized, adjustment is by hand. To analyze a freq as in 14.200 do I adjust the coil to achieve lowest SWR without worrying about R and X or is there any other precautions or steps needed.  Huh
9  eHam Forums / Mobile Ham / RE: Hamstick, Hi-Q or Tarheel 40 or 75 on: December 20, 2012, 05:23:28 AM
Nicolo, have you gone to Scorpion's web site (or others for that matter) and looked at the install photos?  Those will give you some Ideas on how you can install the Scorpion or Hi-Q. Maybe the Scorpion 680s (S=shorty) would be a better than the 680. It's Length retracted: 28”, Extended: 36” 3”, much shorter than the 680.  There is a photo of a guy's SUV w/ the shorty on top.  And one on top of a Hummer.  These should give you some ideas.  You don't need to run a 6 foot stinger.  A shorter one will work or even better w/ a cap hat.  There is a way to mount it.  You just need to find it.
Good luck.

de wn2c  Rick

I have my Scorpion 680S mounted inside my aluminum truck cap and the performance is impressive to say the least.
I had it mounted out in the open through the summer and wanted to try it through the cap for the winter season. There is no doubt in my mind that the signal from my Icom 7000 travels further with the through the cap set-up. I've had many surprised contacts when they learn I'm operating from a truck. My antenna controller is a Better RF 7000 - works well for mobile use and I have a 48" rigid mast with a cap-hat.
Alan Applegate has posted three pictures of my truck on his site - http://www.k0bg.com/gallery2/main.php

Yes I have been to the Scorpion website and I also met up with Ron the owner of Scorpion last year at a Hamfest and we discussed possibilities, none which were great. The problem is the Aluminum box that is just over 8ft tall from the ground, getting a coil over it would put the overall height the the antenna in the danger zone. If I could, I would install a large screwdriver be it a Hi-Q (which I have already) or a  Scorpion but it looks like if I want to move away from hamsticks the small Tarheel antennas might be my only choice.

Rick I will check on the Scorpion 680s Shorty and give Ron a call and see what he thinks.
10  eHam Forums / Mobile Ham / RE: Hamstick, Hi-Q or Tarheel 40 or 75 on: December 17, 2012, 07:06:26 PM
Just to give you an idea on what the truck is it is a 2003 Dodge but the problem is I have an all aluminum security box that is just over 8ft high.
Woody at Hi-Q says that because the coil if mounted correctly above the top of the truck would make the antenna and top hat portion way to high. His suggestion is I would need to mount it at least 12" away from the body and that cant happen. A Scorpion antenna would be even worse. I am confident I could mount a smaller Tarheel on a mount that can be placed on the top of a rear door so the coil would at least be above the cabin portion of the truck.
Here is the picture of my truck.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/71GTXD21/Truck800.jpg
11  eHam Forums / Mobile Ham / RE: Hamstick, Hi-Q or Tarheel 40 or 75 on: December 16, 2012, 11:17:33 AM
Aside from all the engineering discussions...which I respect... I look at things from a simple point of view. I have always had good luck with Hi-Q although the bigger ones get a little pricey. A larger coil should have better Q and Charlie describes this on his website. He uses top of the line test equipment to check his findings. The military buys alot from him.The best thing I like about the Hi-Q is the physical length doesn't change with band changes since the coil is shorted internally, not externally. I've had reasonably good performance from my Hi-Q's in the past.

I have no experience with the Scorpion, but I hear they're good. However, they too are shorted externally and change length with tuning. It's just something I don't like.

73, Todd-KT0DD

I do agree with you on the physical length not changing but my problem is not "not liking the Hi-Q", but not being able to mount the Hi-Q. I have had numerous emails back and forth with Woody at Hi-Q and he even says that trying to mount my Hi-Q antenna on my truck is not going to be easy and it will be a very compromised antenna at best. And as far as a Scorpion, it would be more of a challenge to mount it compared to a Hi-Q.
12  eHam Forums / Mobile Ham / RE: Hamstick, Hi-Q or Tarheel 40 or 75 on: December 14, 2012, 10:10:53 PM
KF7NUA,
you are right about the friction around here. I'm an electrical engineer and of course I work with many other electrical engineers. As such I work with open minded people who must quantify their statements. Feelings about circuits/antennas/etc. and hand waving are simply not part of the environment. Every design and every statement made must be backed up mathematically and proven to a dozen other engineers. We deal in numbers and not adjectives. So, to argue antennas with antenna amateurs (in every sense of the word) who do not have even a rudimentary grasp of antenna fundamentals, yet think they do - and who are close minded - is the real challenge. My time is better spent writing articles about antennas to educate those who are open to learning.   


No need to explain, I am almost to the point of selling my Hi-Q and going to a Tarheel 40A HP because of a few of the points you made!
13  eHam Forums / Mobile Ham / RE: Hamstick, Hi-Q or Tarheel 40 or 75 on: December 13, 2012, 05:40:47 PM
Hi Nick,
I used a borrowed 20 meter hamstick style antenna on a triple magnet mount set atop my Buick Rendezvous for a trip from Texas to Illinois in the spring of 2012.  My rig was my FT-817 with a Heil headset/mic.  With 5 watts then, I worked Canary Island, Honduras and around the U.S.  It was not set up to be a DX dream nor did I QSO the entire trip.  I threw it in the car to try it out and see how I liked HF mobile.
So my results are subjective, and I have nothing to compare to.  It worked well for me, I was happy.  I liked it enough to buy an FT-857D which I will use in my car and boat as well.  I too am considering which antenna type to use now, and the Rendezvous has drawbacks for anything mounted on the bumper, the antenna being right next to the body for much of the antenna length.  I was going to just buy some hamsticks or hamstick style antennas since they worked well enough and could be interchanged from car to boat and given what I have read so far on several sites, I don't see a reason not to do that.  It's also at least $300 cheaper than a screwdriver antenna, and since I won't be mobile forever I don't see an immediate need to change bands on the fly.  Rest/pit stops serves well enough to swap out a hamstick.
That's my current leanings anyway, but still looking at the info because I won't be mobiling for a month or two at best.  This thread did leave me with the impression that there was a lot of discussion but not many answers to your question, so I thought I'd toss in my subjective review.  "The best antenna is the one that works for you" or something like that!   Smiley
73
Jerry

Hi jerry - yep I still monitor this thread as a daily read so your imput is wellcomed as with the rest of the posters.
I know Dave and Alan have been chewing at each others throat but there has been some info I did pick up from it!
14  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: Crank up vertical on: December 07, 2012, 11:26:49 AM
Anybody know anything about this?

http://www.steppir.com/

I saw the "teaser" ad for Steppir in the December CQ magazine and went to the website for information on their new portable antenna.  This seems like it could be a nice option for HOA-restricted hams like me who also work portable.  The question is: will it work?   What will it cost?  I guess we have to wait until Spring to know for sure.  I would be curious what the Antenna experts think.

73 de John, W7SAG

If you do a search you will find that they were taking orders at a cost of $149.00 back in 2002 but stopped and halted production saying that they will re-introduce this antenna at a later tim.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT817/message/26665
15  eHam Forums / Antennas and Towers and more / RE: 40m expectations and a R7 on: December 02, 2012, 08:36:36 AM
Hi Nick --

   My setup is pretty similar: an R7 mounted 5' above ground and an IC-706 running 100W. 40M is my favorite band. The ground conductivity is poor, but I'm on the top of a ridge that drops off steeply to the west, south and east, so that helps.

I installed my R7 a year ago and have worked 70-80 countries from the west coast on 40m. The Pacific, VK/ZL, JA are easy as is most of the near east. I also work EU long path in the winter mornings (they are beaming LP, whereas the R7 is "all path"). So it works pretty well for DX. I put up a 40M dipole at 35' a few months ago for comparison. The R7 and the low dipole are about the same for DX. A/B tests show little difference. Maybe the R7 is a bit better for the signals >5000 miles.  However for daytime local work and for US contacts at night, the dipole is *much* better by 2-3 S units, sometimes more.

Kevin
K6TOP
 

Thanks Kevin - I had my R7 up for about 6 months and never really used it that often, then when monsoon season started I decided to lower it down. I decided to put it back up on a tilt mount but tore up a tendon in my leg so the task to raise it back up again had to wait for 3 months of rest. I did just get it back up and have been testing it to see how well it works since I heard so many internet posts say it is a good antenna but I have never had an another vertical to compare it against, why the reason for this post.

During the day on 40m, range is between 400-800 mile
Sunset to early evening on 40m, I can hear the east coast 1500-2000 miles S7 to S9+ but they just faintly or barely hear me, and that was my concern, I thought it would be better. Also I hear Roberto in Italy loud and clear as usual and I am hearing Russia quite well too.

I am ordering a fiberglass mast so I can get a Doublet up in the air for 40 and 80m so I hope that helps with reaching the east coast with 100 watts.  Will see what happens then!   
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