Fully aware of that, thanks! I don't know CW anywho. Sideband though is one feature that I wish it did have! At least it will be better than 2 meter only like I'm currently limited to!

Yes, I have plans to get a power supply once work picks back up since spring has sprung in my neck of the woods. Though I'm probably going with something bigger because I'm also planning on picking up a Yaesu FT8900 as well, and that's actually going to become my "base station"! May do some SOTA work with that as well so that I can utilize the 10 and 6 meter bands!

Yeah the thing that sucks about the way I did my readings is that the antenna was fairly close to the jeep, though it has a fiberglass hardtop so I hope that the readings were not affected to much! It was about 4 +/- feet above the roof line and 3 feet out from the side of the jeep.

I think I'm going to build the 2-element yaggi that I provided a link to earlier just for a learning experience but it's for 144Mhz and 1" diameter pipe. Any clue what formula I would use to get new measurements for the 146Mhz region and clothes hanger material? I want to keep it a direct connect so that I don't have to mess around with a matching network. That is one reason that I really liked that design, that and the fact that it is only 1 foot from DE to director which means I could lash it to the outside of my pack fairly easily and not have to break it down.

KB4QAA: I am happy to see these numbers, though I'm really just trying to wrap my head around why the radio would show (on it's own meter) that it's pushing full power when hooked up to the lighter socket on these dipoles, and on the rubber ducky with only a battery pack, but on the dipoles with the battery pack it's ramped back down.... something just doesn't seem to make sense to me about that, because obviously the pack is charged and is pushing full power on the duck. I will definitely be brewing up a yaggi at some point soon though!
It's just that for the SOTA work with QRP I feel that I need every available watt going out. I live in a fairly rural, very mountainous area, and hams are few and far between; so getting the the 4 required QSO's on simplex is going to be quite a challenge, hence my being anal about wattage! But anywho I think I'll give it a spin as it is and see what happens, hey the worst that can happen is I won't get the QSO's and I'll have to try again another time.... just means more time in the hills for me! I've been an avid hiker my whole life anyways so I'm more than happy to do it!

KI4SDY: Well I never did take a reading inside my house, I couldn't because of the fact that I need to be plugged into the vehicle so I could put out over 4W for the meter to read, but I am fully aware of the mechanics of that fact! I may actually turn that horizontal into a portable, lightweight yaggi, so I'm not going to start trimming just yet. I don't even really need a horizontal anywho as I'm only working FM currently, it was more of an experiment.
I'm getting fairly decent signal reports all things considered. I usually use a repeater that is 35 miles away, with only 4 watts, so needless to say it's a little noisy but still intelligible I've been told! Not to mention that I live in very mountainous terrain, and near the base of a large hill with a lot of ledge containing iron in it, at about 800' ASL, in a sort of bowl shaped valley!

Thank you all for your help and insight! Very very much appreciated! Maybe I'll work some of you some day on my SOTA adventures once I get onto the 10 and 6 meter bands, or visit your locale for some hikes outside of my own region!

I have made 17 to 20 mile QSO's on 2m simplex with my HTX202 and a home-brew dipole (at 15ft maximum on tent poles, it's portable), running of the AA pack (4 watts)... I'm also getting into a repeater 35 miles away with the same setup; and this is all in mountainous northern Vermont and New Hampshire! That repeater has allowed me to talk to people throughout Maine; like Augusta, Lyman, Plymouth, Maddison, and Brunswick all from St. Johnsbury, VT down in a valley! There's 2 other 30+ mile repeaters I can get into, but I have to hike it up to the top of the hill behind my place. Yes, the rubber ducks really do not perform, though if I get into the right spot outside I can get into the first repeater I was talking about and I'm at least legible!

Anyone? Where did all the help go?

Okay, so testing is finished! I got some weird results to say the least! So first of all, while testing both antenna's they were outside up on the tent poles and the radio was plugged into the lighter socket in the jeep. I noticed that in both instances of testing the radio's output meter on the rig itself was pegged at 10 through the entire band!   Definitely weird! I don't think it was just because it was plugged in, because A.) It will read a 10 on the wire dipole with the AA battery tray & B.) It will read a 10 with the rubber ducky with the AA tray too. After testing with "antenna 2" (the vertical), with it still in the same position as when tested, I unhooked 12v vehicle power and put my battery pack on; it read 7 through the entire band on the rigs meter, and if you look back at the data I posted last night about that it went from 5 down to 3 by the end of the band. Mind you last nights data was from inside the house, with batteries that were at a questionable level (forgot how long they charged for), and the batteries I used today were charged all night and I was outside.

I should note that I have 2 swr readings for each 1Mhz step, as I didn't know if I needed to recalibrate for each frequency. The first reading is calibrated at 146Mhz and the second is re-calibrated for each reading on it's respective frequency.

Okay so I will start with the horizontal dipole (I will now refer to this one as antenna 1):
144 = 5.5 watts forward power
         1.1:1 and 1.05:1
145 = 6 watts forward power
         1.1:1 and 1.1:1
146 = 6.5 watts forward power
         1.2:1 and 1.1:1
147 = 7 watts forward power
         1.4:1 and 1.2:1
148 = 7.5 watts forward power
         1.5:1 and 1.3:1

The vertical steel rod dipole (Now referred to as antenna 2):
144 = 6 watts forward power
         1.1:1 and 1.1:1
145 = 5.5 watts forward
         1.05:1 and 1.05:1
146 = 5 watts forward
         1:1 and 1:1
147 = 4.5 watts forward
         1.05:1 and 1.05:1
148 = 4.5 watts forward
         1.1:1 and 1.1:1

As you can see the SWR readings are all within a reasonable range throughout the band on both antenna's. I don't understand though why I would get different readings for the "power forward" on both antenna's or even throughout the band on each antenna. I did also flip the fwd/ref switch when doing the power readings, as I didn't know if the reading for "ref" is important to note as well. If needed I can add this data if it's requested. Antenna 1 obviously needs some sort of tuning done, but it seems that number 2 is doing pretty good, except for the lower power readings (if that's of any consequence).

I'm positive that I took the SWR readings correctly. This is all done on a Yaesu YS-500 SWR & Power Meter

Settings for forward power measurement:
Range = 20W
Function = POWER
Power = FWD (I then took a reading with it in REF as well)

Here's the switch sequence I used to calibrate each time I calibrated:
Range = 20W
Function = CAL
Power = FWD

And here's the switch sequence I used for the SWR reading:
Range = 20W
Function = SWR
Power = REF

I just want to make sure that I'm getting my full power out because that is going to come into play when I do SOTA activations!

Yeah I thought so. I know the rubber ducks suck, it's almost no better than a dummy load. Okay well I just had to be positive because it's all I have right now! Thanks Bill!


I'm pretty sure the horizontal example may be a little long. I think I remember cutting it a tad long and never trimmed it.... Stand by, I will get the SWR and log it for you all to take a look at. I ran the mistake yesterday of not writing it all down... I got excited to tune my aerials and got a little ahead of myself! I'll hook 'em up again shortly and run the test!

Well I'm just guesstimating, but I do believe that the RG58 on the horizontal is right about 20 to 25 feet as my room is 15x15 and it stretches across it with plenty to spare. The vertical (steel rod) has the RG8U and that is much much shorter, probably around 12ft total at the most.

I may have to try that route (disconnecting the feedline and checking the swr) just to see what happens. Should I calibrate on low power as well before unhooking?

What is meant by adding in a small jumper exactly?

Well they do work, despite the noise (was described as a sort of flutter) on the other end (which I think may be RFI since it wasn't mentioned last week when I checked into the weekly net from atop a local hill), I'm just worried that I will burn out my xcvr and be up the creek without a paddle so to speak. Though I have read that HT's can deal with mismatches and such a lot better than mobiles and base stations.

Here is the data from the rig's power meter for each antenna "across the band":

Vertical wire dipole:
144 = a perfect 10
145 = 7
146 = 7
147 = 5
148 = 5
Rx is a perfect 10 on a repeater 35 miles away over very mountainous northern VT/NH terrain

Horizontal dipole (coat hanger):
144 = fluctuates between 5 and 7
145 = 5
146 = 5
147 = 3
148 = 3
Rx of same repeater is also a 10

Vertical (steel rod):
144 = 5
145 = 5
146 = 5
147 = 5
148 = 3
Rx of said repeater is 7 with a lot of noise

Now mind you the last 2 are setup inside my bedroom near the only 2 windows I have, as I am not allowed to mount anything to the building permanently where I'm at right now, I don't think I could even put up a mast in my "yard". I'm staying with some family at a duplex community currently (about to change location in a few months) which kind of puts a damper on things!  I should also try these tests again, and log them, with my laptop shut off as it seems to be putting off an ungodly amount of RFI that does indeed go away when I power it down. RFI doesn't seem to bother as much with the wire dipole mounted outside unless the feed line gets to near the laptop. Any insight on any of this would be helpful.

Bill, thank you!

I have a bit of "free time" on my hands as of late and I'd been out of the hobby for a few couple years, so I decided to jump right back in and experiment. That and a temporary move that has effectively limited me to access of only 2 repeaters has forced me to search for a better antenna system.

I am well aware of the right angle factor of feed lines for dipoles and have constructed accordingly. Though I may not have gone far enough... I can't seem to find a general rule of thumb for distance before I can go down with my feed line.

I do remember seeing something, somewhere, related to coiled chokes and dipoles, but I don't remember where exactly... It may have been an article on QRZ or DXzone's antenna page. I just remember 6 turns was what they used so I figured I would give it a whirl. This was after trying it without one mind you, and results seemed worse. I just used what I had as a guide for the wraps which happened to be the empty Advil bottles (diameter of 2").

The only reason I'm concerned about wattage is because I only have my HT available to me right now and limited repeater activity in my area. The two antenna's other than the wire dipole are hitting really low on the rigs meter. I will make a reply shortly detailing the readings with all three antenna's through the band.

I have for books:
The A.R.R.L. Antenna Book (ARRL, 1964)
The Radio Amateur's VHF Manual (ARRL, 1968)
Understanding Amateur Radio (ARRL, 1963)
Antennas - Selection, Installation, and Projects (Radio Shack, 1994)
and my "No-Code Plus - Novice & Tech Class Theory" (Radio Shack, 2nd Ed, 1993) from when studied to get my ticket.

I know some of those are pretty old, but the theory couldn't have changed that much could it? I have no money that I can sink into my hobbies at the moment as I've been laid off for this past winter, that's why I went the dipole route because I already had everything to make it! Also I should note: the connections are not soldered, I put eyelet's on the ends of the dipole elements and on the feed line and bolted them together with small nuts and bolts from my sons erector set pieces!

I do plan on building a 2 element yaggi very soon for my upcoming SOTA work... the design I plan to use is here: http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=19793
Though I believe this design is geared towards 144mhz and I'm looking at "standard" simplex frequencies (IE: 146.52 & 146.55), though I could go with the weak signal portion of the band as I'll be using my trusty old HTX202!

Thank you WB6BYU,

Yes that is exactly what I am seeing (low power on the rigs meter, low swr readings on the yeasu swr meter).

Well with the stock rubber duck the rig's power meter reads full scale, and the batteries are freshly charged.

Yes, I did calibrate before taking an SWR reading.

I am wondering if an impedance mismatch could cause an error in the readings though?

On the vertical wire, there is no mast (taped to exterior of my plastic window frame), and the feed line is at a right angle to the antenna for at least 10 inches I believe. I haven't taken a measurement though, and no SWR readings have been done on it.

So I have built a few 2 meter dipoles over the last 2 weeks. A vertical wire one using ?? gauge speaker wire for elements and RG58U to feed it, a horizontal one from coat hangers with RG58U feed again, and a vertical from some sort of scrap steel rod (approximately the same diameter as coat hanger), fed with RG8U. I finally got a hold of a Yeasu YS-500 swr meter today and hooked up both the horizontal and the vertical with steel rod.
I know my rig (HTX-202) has not been pushing full power, as the meter on the radio doesn't hit 10 when connected direct to the antenna. But my SWR readings where very low, in fact 1.3:1 was about as high as the SWR ever climbed on both antennas and through the entire 2M band. Could the fact that a dipole is 72 or so Ohm's, and the rig, lines, and meter are 50 Ohm be causing an error in my readings? I do have coaxial wrap balun's on both of these antennas, they are wound on 2 inch diameter Advil bottles, 6 turns on the vertical, and I believe 4 on the horizontal. Any ideas people? What is the cheapest way to match these dipoles to the line if that is indeed my problem? BTW the line lengths are random, I just used what I had on hand. These are meant to be portable as well, being mounted on tent poles for SOTA work, so they will be moved around a lot from location to location, at about 20 feet maximum height.
I also have not tested the wire vertical because the SWR meter wants a minimum of 4 watts for SWR readings so I have to plug into the lighter socket in my vehicle for more output, and the antenna isn't portable (it's duct tapped to the outside of my 2nd story bedroom window frame). There is no balun on that one and it seems to perform very good, almost better than the other 2! Higher output readings on the radio anywho. 

Thanks in advance,
Matt
KB1CRQ

Thanks, that's actually where I was reading about AGWPE.



I was trying to avoid having to buy anything if at all possible. I don't have extra money for gear at the moment. Ease is not one of my main concerns as I learn easily and am fairly technically inclined. I would also get much more enjoyment out of building something or doing it the "hard way".

Ahh, got ya. Very well then, at least I can see if indeed these are digital signals I'm hearing. Does MultiPSK cover any of those other modes (PSK, RTTY, etc.)? How is the radio interfaced with the computer for tx? Is it something that I could possibly build or do I have to buy it?

Well thank you, I actually powered up the HA-500 last night and was listening to 40M AM broadcast, and a little bit of SSB (40M seems to be all I can tune with my "antenna" setup). I still think that I'm going to let them go though. I would rather see them restored and used by someone who would really appreciate them, someone who used them back in their youthful days perhaps. If and when I do finally get around to upgrading I will probably go with something newer and with more features. I just don't have the time or willpower to learn the ropes of boat anchors. But like I said I don't want these great pieces of radio history lost to the dumps and landfills either!