Thanks guys.  Good points and exactly the kind of info I was looking for!  I'd be interested in seeing further on Steve's buddy's testing.

Terry, WØFM

Oh, did I mention....I'm antenna restricted!

Terry, WØFM

Hi Darryl,

I had that same, once-in-a-lifetime, opportunity in 1996.  I had my home builder design the roof trusses to allow as much clearance for antenna rotation as possible in the attic.  (The extra truss work and design added only $400 to the overall price of the home.)  I also had him run a 4" PVC pipe direct from the attic to the shack in the basement (Check fire codes on this one.  You may need to stuff it with fire retardant material for the inspection).  The PVC pipe runs through dead space in the walls.  Now coax install is a snap....just drop it in the hole in the attic and it comes out in the basement behind the radio desk.  I had the builder also include a second 1 1/2" metal conduit for 12VDC (preamps, etc) and rotor control cables from the basement to the attic.  It shields the long 12VDC lines from RF and leaves more room in the PVC for feed lines.  

Have the electrician extend the beefy entrance panel ground to your proposed operating position.  This is cheaper and much easier before the walls are drywalled.  It's also a good time to install extra ground rods and bond them together.  Don't be bashful about this.  Builders sometimes skimp on the electrical grounding, usually doing bare minimum to meet code.  I had him put a 220V circuit in near the proposed operating position for an anticipated amplifier as well.  At time of construction it was only a $75 change order.  I would have been much more after the fact.

Don't forget an AC outlet in the attic (for solder guns, test equipment, etc), but keep it near the floor joists to keep the length of AC Romex wiring short.  I resisted the urge to install some permanent lights in the attic for antenna work, but, instead, opted for plug-in work lights.

I had my builder instruct all the sub contractors to design the attic to be free of HVAC ductwork, plumbing, low voltage, stereo, thermostat, telephone and alarm wiring.  All those wires stop on the second floor (Minimal TVI from my numerous attic antennas).  The contractors will tell you that they normally do "home runs" on such wiring from the attic, but they can keep it out of there if you insist.  I spec'ed all the roof exhaust vents to be UV plastic rather than metal.  

For just an extra $300, the builder floored off a large section (17 x 16.5') of the attic with plywood and built a plywood and 2x4 catwalk the full length of the attic so I don't pop through into the master bedroom while working on antennas.  A pull-down attic stair would have been great, but I lacked the space to make it work.

When I told the builder's architech what I wanted to do in the attic, he scratched his head, then recommended a "HIP" sytle roof.  That was a new term to me, but when he said it would maximize the useable space up there, I was "hip" to his idea.  The peak of the attic space is 17 feet above the attic floor.  Being a two story home, the feed points of my attic dipoles are 37 feet above ground.  Not too bad.

Most of all, do what we do best and "communicate" with the builder and his workers.  Try to talk to the subs involved as well, so they have a good understanding of what you are ultimately trying to accomplish.  Give him drawings, measurments and details of the kind of antennas you are expecting to install so he can visualize it.  If you can, try to be on site when the ham related work is being completed.  You'll make the best "supervisor" for that stage of construction.  They'll be a little annoyed at first, but they do get over it.  My guys went from giving me strange looks to using term like "coax runs", "dipoles" and "linear amplifier outlets" when we talked. (Providing cold beer after work a couple of nights didn't hurt either!)

If you do lots of antenna experimenting like me, buy yourself a cheap fiberglass or wooden stepladder and keep it up in the attic permanently.

All in all, the "extra" work to make my new home an "antenna farm" cost me less than $1100.  I'd do it again.

Good luck with the house.

73,  Terry, WØFM

Welcome to Vertical Antenna Theory 101.  Assuming ground-mounted on the same soil, same mounting environment and the same bed of buried radials, technically speaking, which antenna, IN THEORY, would be the better performing vertical: Trapped vertical (ie: Hustler 6BTV) or full-sized screwdriver with 102" whip?

Obviously, the trapped vertical is more convenient due to automatic band switching and the screwdriver might have less "trap loss".  Remember, we are talking THEORY here.  I have used both antennas successfully in different places so I really don't need product reviews (I've read those all too).

I can install either antenna at my present QTH.  What differences in performance can I expect?

Thanks in advance.  Terry, WØFM

Well, that does it Steve.  I'm going to coat tail you whenever I hear you on.  The cutest girl in class probably asked YOU to the dance (but she didn't count for DXCC!)  Some guys have all the luck.  73, Terry, WØFM

There's a Uniden HR2600 all mode 10M mobile for sale for $150.00 on QRZ at this time if you are interested in that unit.  Good luck.  Terry, WØFM

Gee thanks, Steve!  VP8GEO called you?  Rub my nose it it already!  Yep. I've spent a good deal of time in and out of the attic.  The attic is very large by design.  I also had the builder construct 2x4 and plywood "catwalks" from end to end so I don't fall through into the master bedroom!  

I have a 6ft fiberglass step ladder that lives up there all the time.  I have an 8 foot step ladder in a second floor closet to reach the attic opening door.  There are days that I run from the shack in the basement to the top step of the step ladder in the attic (equivilent to 4 floors!) making adjustments.  I might do this 20 times on a Saturday (and the XYL says I don't get any exercise in my hobby!!).  

Well, I think everyone has pretty much steered me away from the MA5B.  Sounds way too touchy for my needs.  The rest of the other antennas up there tend to play well together.  They are vertically separated running the same direction  (An Alpha Delta DX-EE for 40,20,15 and 10 and a homemade multi-element fanned dipole for 12, 17 and 30.)  Like you said, they are vunerable to the position of my body when I am nearby.  I usually take the MFJ-259B down a floor to get believable readings on them.  Thanks for your help and please tell VP8GEO to give me a call sometime!  73 de Terry, WØFM

Thanks for your responses.  It sounds like I may have mis-communicated my needs here and probably should have provided a little more background info.  I had my home builder design the roof trusses in the attic of my house to accommodate a rotating tri-band beam.  Unfortunately, he missed my target specs for turning radius by about 2 feet.

I have tried the Mosley Mini-33 up there (a foot too long) as well as the little hybrid beam from TGM (not real impressive).  From what you are telling me, the MA5B might not be the answer either, but, since it fits my available turning radius, I am exploring it as a possibility.

Presently, I have half wave dipoles in my attic for 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12 and 10 meters that do surprisingly well (37 feet above ground).  Also in the attic are a pair of stacked 6M halos, an AEA Iso-Loop, Eggbeaters for 440 and 2M, a 10M ground plane and two discones.

I designed my attic void of HVAC ductwork, plumbing and most electrical wiring (all telephone, thermostat, alarm and stereo wiring stops at the second floor) with the intention of installing many antennas up there.  Only a short run or two of AC Romex is within the attic joists.  All in all, not a bad compromise environment for hidden antennas.

I have used a Hustler 4BTV encased in PVC pipe as a "flagpole" antenna, laid a large loop on the roof, loaded up the guttering and slung longwires into the trees out back, so I have my share of steath antennas either up and working or in the junk box.  Experimenting with attic and stealth antennas has become a "hobby within a hobby" for me.

So, it is not yet another stealthy antenna solution that I am after (although I welcome them all), but, rather, a small, effective 10-15-20 meter beam that will fit (and work) in the space designed in my attic.  In addition to the gain and directivity that a beam will give me, I am hoping to pick up some coverage in some areas that I presently can't hear off the ends of my dipoles (such as parts of Asia, 4S and the extreme tip of S. America, like the current VP8GEO group).  Thanks again for all your input.  73,  Terry, WØFM

OK guys, here's one to chew on.  I am considering the Cushcraft MA5B mini beam for installation in my attic.  I have an available turning radius of just about 9 feet up there.  The MA5B almost fits, but it looks like the large "X-hats" near the element ends may present the limiting factor when it comes to rotating it in my attic.  Can I assume that the X-hat elements on the MA5B are capacitive hats and are there simply to add bandwidth?  Is it just the additional "electrical length" the X-Hats provide that is critical?  If so, can I bend them back or down a bit to help clear the roof trusses during rotation, or do they need to remain perpindicular to the element?  Having no wind or ice loading, or visual aesthetics to deal with, what effect, if any, would reshaping the X-Hats have?  Thanks.  73, Terry, WØFM  

Hey Dale.  You are already technically much more advanced than many beginning hams I know.  We need more inquisitive and experimentally-minded folks like you in our ranks.  Go for it man!  Ours is the greatest hobby on earth (space too, for that matter).  I think you'll find a lot of helpful hams here.  Keep us posted and stop by often.  Best of luck.  Terry, WØFM

Steve,
First of all, your XYL is a prize.  If she does roofs as well as garages, you might offer her this tip.  Being antenna restricted myself, I made a loop of black insulated wire that matched my roof shingles and laid it flat, directly on the roof right along the edges.  Every three or four of feet I tacked it to the shingles with a dab of black silicone caulk sealant (I was surprised to see how many colors the sealant comes in).  The sealant dries fast and holds tight.  This loop made many contacts for me and stayed in place, almost totally invisible, through snow, ice, wind and hot sun.  When I moved, the wire pulled right up.  Good luck.  Terry, WØFM

Boy, this is fantastic reading.  Trying real hard NOT to sound like the "I had to walk ten miles to school, each way, barefoot and in the snow" guy,.......I waited 12 weeks for my Novice call sign and license in 1962!  Congratulations and welcome to all!  Terry, WØFM

Just a thought.  My old computer had a spade (automotive type) lug connector on the back of the front panel power switch.  While adding a fan one day, I experienced the same problem you did.  The computer would not come back on.  After days of agonizing, I found that the spade connector on the wire from the power supply to the back of the front panel ON-OFF switch had come off the switch.  Two seconds later....back in business.  Good luck.  Terry, WØFM

Beware of Belkin?  Coincidence?  What a timely post.  I recently upgraded my shack computer and it (like most) came with just one serial port.  I needed two, so I purchased a Belkin USB/serial adapter, also downloaded the latest drivers from the Belkin web site.  I started using the adapter with my RIGBlaster and the rig started doing goofy things.  I have wrestled with the rig, the RIGBlaster and the computer without ever suspecting the Belkin adapter.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I guess I have a project for this weekend.  73,  Terry, WØFM

Robert,

Either the 2 meter J-Pole or the vertical dipole that Creede mentions would do an OK job with your scanner as well as your 2 meter rig.  Scanners typically have a compromise telescoping antenna about 20 or so inches tall and they hear fairly well (although not great) on most scanner bands.  So, your J-Pole or vertical dipole in or near the window would be an improvement over the telescopic antenna and, therefore, do "double duty" for receiving with your scanner as well.  Good luck with your exam.  Terry, WØFM