I like the Tennadyne antennas. For a 5 band antenna solution, you can do much worse.
Plus, once they are up in the air, they look like an overgrown TV antenna, LOL
I had a Cushcraft SL 2010 Log Periodic, but never put it up. The elements were too long, would have hit the trees!

That Mosley, and other antenna makers using traps  in their multi band Yagi designs would make them ?
Before Hy Gain sold out to MFJ, they were out in Lincoln Nebraska, and had a full size antenna testing range.
I remember several phone conversations with several Hy Gain Engineers about the new, at that time, Force 12 trapless tribanders.

All of the Hy Gain engineers I talked to (many were fellow Hams), told me it was mandated by their bosses to buy any and all major competitive triband antenna designs, and put them through their paces, on the Antenna Range.

I was told they bought and tested trapless triband yagi designs, and on the antenna range, they did not have the better performance claimed by the makers of these antennas.

One Hy Gain antenna engineer asked me to "use my common sense".  He told me it was far easier(from a manufacturing standpoint) to make a trapless triband Yagi Antenna, then one with traps. He even said from an antenna warranty point of view, the elimination of Traps would result in less warranty claims as well!

Non Trap triband yagi antennas never "pop a trap" he said, when operated with excessive power, or into the high SWR condition that occurs when a Ham tries to operate a 10,15, and 20 meter only Yagi, on 17 and/or 12 meters!

I ALMOST had him all talked into sending me the antenna range measurements of a few of the Force 12 Yagi's! But, once he came to his senses, he said he could lose his job, if he did so.

This Hy Gain Antenna engineer, and fellow Ham, said he had a lot of respect for N6BT, both as a dx chaser, and an antenna engineer. But he assured me, that IF non trapped triband yagi's were as good as they were made out to be, that Hy Gain would build them!

He told me that the design of non trapped multi band yagi's was "a piece of cake" for any competent antenna engineer, even a "kid right out of school"

He also told me that Hy Gain wanted to "be the best", and was not "married to trapped antenna design"

You know what, in several conversation with this Ham, I honestly felt that antenna design at Hy Gain, was not "just a job to him"!

This Hy Gain antenna engineer told me that he was given one mandate in antenna design, and one mandate only. Too make the very best triband yagi antenna he possibly could. He also told me no limitations were imposed on him, in the electrical designs he created. He pointed with Pride to the Hy Gain Explorer 14 he designed, and all the computer and antenna range time he spent on it, to "get it right".

Now, let's go to Mosley, they too have an antenna range. Would not "common sense" tell you that IF traps were "so bad", they would have abandoned them a long time ago ?

Do not think for a minute that Mosley does not test trapless triband antenna designs.
Of course they do, and must have found out what Hy Gain did as well.

The very survival of these 2 antenna makers I mentioned could depend on it!

Yet, you still see Traps in all Mosley Triband antenna designs.

Hy Gain, when they were still around, and Mosley, were certainly able to attract and pay the very best antenna engineers. Many of whom were Hams, who cared very much about what products they made for us fellow Hams.

Some Hams it seems evidently want to believe that N6BT, who did the Force 12 trapless triband yagi designs, and the German Optibeam Guy are the only antenna engineers able to "create magic" in their antenna designs maybe ?

I think people might wish to consider it is FAR easier to make a trapless antenna. Besides less potential warranty claims, making precision Traps is not easy. The whole antenna design depends on the precision of these traps.
A whole manufacturing step can be done away with by eliminating the hard to make, and labor intensive traps. For a small aspiring antenna maker, as Force 12 was when they first came appeared, it makes it far easier to make a trapless triband yagi, then one with traps!

Seeing the sales success Force 12 had, fighting Mosley and Hy Gain with their no trap designs, other small antenna companies took notice, and copied them.

Us Hams will believe what we want to believe. But, I will never forget my conversations with the old Hy Gain Antenna Engineers, back when they were in Lincoln Nebraska.

I refuse to allow advertising hype, and other sales gimmicks, to get the best of my common sense, and what I was told by a fellow Ham, who took a great deal of pride, in the antenna designs he created at Hy Gain.

I think the antenna makers of today are Far too passive, and allow claims to be made they can easily prove are not always true!

I am aware of the Champion Radio Triband Antenna Test, and the poor performance shown by a Mosley Triband Antenna Design.

If it were me, I would fight this, by using the Mosley antenna range to actually TEST the Mosley, against the very same antennas Champion Radio used. I would get impartial observers to document the test results. No way I would allow anyone to say my antenna had "negative gain"!

If Mike Ercolino of Telrex was still around, you can BET he would test these trapless tribanders on the Government Test Range they used back then, and he would publish the results!

Oh, I forgot to add that Francis Beckwith, a Mosley antenna engineer from way back when, did tell me he did not consider trapless triband yagi designs to be "all that, and a bag of Chips".  He also raised concerns about the increased windloading, from all those "unneeded extra elements" on the boom.

Unlike Hy Gain, who gave me the impression that they wanted to make electrically superior antennas, and would go to any lengths to do so, Francis Beckwith of Mosley seemed almost "anal" about making antennas to "survive Armageddon".

So, I know my position on trapless triband yagi antennas is probably not the current "politically correct" one.

Whatever .....
 

OK, consider this, I am Mosley or Hy Gain. I have an antenna range, and I buy the Force 12 or Optibeam Designs, and measure them. I see they are "better", so what do I do ?
Allow a competitor to make a better antenna, or change my design ?
It is MUCH easier to make a NON Trapped antenna, less labor intensive.
Or, do you think that only N6BT and The German Optibeam designer are capable of designing a Yagi with forward stagger ?

When HY  Gain was in Lincoln Nebraska, I know for a fact they bought and tested competitive designs.
I imagine Mosley does the same.
WHY have they not changed to the "better designs", of the Force 12 and Optibeams ?
Unless, of course, they are not really better, after all is said and done ?

Thanks for the long, and well written reply!
Mike just may not have the time to participate on the Internet, since as you say, he is building these himself.
I have went and read every review of the Traffie Hex Beam on EHam, and customers seem very happy with them.
And, people also seem happy with the G3TXQ redesign, sold by K4KIO, and others.
In the final analysis, the marketplace will decide which Hex Beam gets sold, and to who.
The lower priced KIO Hex Beams have been for sale quite some time, and yet Traffie still seems to sell their more expensive product.
It would appear that there is room in the marketplace for BOTH designs, since both Traffie and KIO seem to be doing very well, based on all the reviews.

That Tokyo High Power amp is the cat's meow! I was looking at the Italian no tune, solid state Kilowatt amps! I can't afford one, but maybe someday ?

Like I just said in this thread, I never knew about Traffie Hex Beams, until I was on QRZ.
Just for MY information, Ham to Ham, what made you buy the Traffie ?
Are you aware that Steve Hunt redesigned the Hex Beam, and was able to get better SWR Curve as well as better front to back, for a small increase in size vs the Traffie Hex Beam ?
The G3TXQ redesign being sold by K4KIO, and now NA4RR costs a lot less then the Traffie.
Unless the smaller size of the Traffie was an important consideration to you, OR the Traffie is vastly better built (and it may be), why would you pay more, for less apparent performance ?

Of course, I ASSUME the G3TXQ redesign is superior, because Steve Hunt says so.
And, one never sees this Traffie guy defending his design, or justifying it's nearly double the cost, vs his competitors here on EHAM, or on QRZ!

I am not in the market for a Hex Beam, nor do I have any financial interest in which Hex Beam a person buys. I am not W8JI, VK1OD, WB2WIK, Cecil, etc, etc, or an antenna elmer, by any stretch of the imagination. But if a fellow Ham asks me my opinion on what Hex Beam he should buy, I want my opinions to be grounded in fact.

It greatly puzzles me as to WHY this Mike Traffie does NOT come on the Internet Antenna Forums, in defense of his product!
IF he thinks he is "taking the high road", then IMHO he is mistaken.

Us Hams are a inquisitive and technical group of people, who will research an antenna design to death, before we buy it.

Other then slightly smaller size, and the opinions you just gave about how nice a guy Mike Traffie is, I have yet to be presented with a compelling argument to pay nearly twice as much for a Traffie Hex Beam vs a KIO or an NA4RR Hex Beam.

And IF I were in the market for any Hex Beam, I would seriously have to question WHY Mike Traffie does not fight back ?

Where are the computer models of the Traffie to rebut the claims of the G3TXQ design, and where is Mike Traffie, to defend his product.

Unless he CAN'T defend his product, and the claims of his competitors are true!

If Mike Traffie can show me his design does not have to take  a back seat to ANY Hex Beam, is better electrically, built better , and worth double the price, I will gladly, when asked, suggest his product to my fellow Hams.

But, as of 12/30/2012, I see absolutely see no reason for any Ham, to pay Mike Traffie more, for less antenna.

I "pick" on Mosley too, and slam their overpriced Verticals, when asked. They are nearly 3 TIMES the price of the proven Hustlers, yet offer no better performance.

They make a 3 element 5 band beam, the TA 53. But want to charge us Hams nearly 600 dollars, for an add on director element, and small piece of boom, to make it a 4 element beam!

IMHO, that is a blatant Rip Off!

I would be "all ears" to see Mike Traffie get his butt out here on the Internet, and defend what appears to be him selling a Hex Beam with Less performance then his competitors, for double the price.

I care not how nice a guy he is or isn't, or that he invented the Hex Beam either.

And IF he (or anyone else) can show me his Hex Beam is better then the competitive offerings, and worth twice the price, I will gladly "eat my words", and when asked, gladly suggest those who ask me, to buy a Traffie Hex Beam.

Yes, check out the NA4RR Hex Beams! He is selling them, for only 398.00 delivered!
They are based on Steve Hunt G3TXQ design, same as the KIO Hex Beams.
Most people here in Florida use the KIO Hex Beams, but since NA4RR has started making Hex Beams at such a reasonable cost, I would look at his design, as well.
The Traffie Hex Beam is smaller, and more expensive.
I was quite unaware of them, until I hear about them on QRZ.
I have read the EHAM reviews on the Traffie Hex Beams, and owners of it seem absolutely delighted as well.

It is my understanding that the G3TXQ Design is larger, but offers a broader SWR curve, and better front to back, in exchange for an increase in size.

I was on 12 meters recently, talking to an elderly Ham, who had a small Hybrid Products mini quad he was less then thrilled with.
That antenna is basically the TGM antenna you spoke of, at the start of this thread.

He wound up buying the Traffie Hex Beam, vs both the NA4RR or the K4KIO Hex Beam!
He messaged me by email, to thank me for all my on the air and email help, and to tell me of his decision.
He told me he went with the Traffie Hex Beam, because it was SMALLER !
He also said he felt it was better built, and reeked of Quality, vs the lower priced KIO and NA4RR versions.

I strongly felt ANY of the Hex Beams would smoke his Hybrid Products Company Mini Quad. TGM bought them out, BTW.

Interestingly enough, Steve Hunt, G3TXQ, actually owned the Cush Craft MA 5B !
While he says that it is a decent antenna, he knows his Hex Beam will outperform it, and I agree.

Happy Antenna Shopping, and hope you find the right Hex Beam, for you!

I Hear You, loud and clear Brother!
In fact, designing and building our own antennas are about all a Ham can do to improve our situations. I certainly lack the technical capacity to build a better transceiver then I can buy. I guess building a monster amplifier could be done, if one we so inclined, but that would not be me, and still does not address the receive gain possible with a gain antenna.

Man, I can clearly remember giving life to my very first Yagi. It was for 10 meters, and had 3 fairly wide spaced elements (.2 wavelength). I spaced elements equally wide apart on the boom, and cut the elements 5% longer for the reflector, and 5% shorter for the director. I "cheated" a bit, and ordered a Gamma Match from Kirk Electronics in Ohio, owned by W8FYR.
Tom Baker (SK) W8MMM, turned me on to Dr Aaron Self (W8FYR), and Kirk Electronics. They made and sold a lot of neat stuff, including Cubical Quad stuff.

I will never ever forget loading up my Drake TR 4 and calling CQ on my home made 10 meter monobander. I lived up in Detroit at the time, and the antenna was on a chimney mount of a 2 story home. The band was wide open, so I swung the little beam NE, and called CQ. To my great surprise, I soon had several Europeans coming back to me! I was sooo excited!
There was no computer modeling back then, there was the ARRL Handbook. It clearly said "experience has shown that these element lengths and spacings will work" and guess what ? They did!
I suppose I "got lucky", because my very first home made Yagi, had pretty darn good front to back as well! Because of the relatively wide spacing I used (.2 wavelength), it also had pretty good bandwidth!
My home brew 10 meter monobander could beat the Mosley 3 element tribander of one friend, and it also just destroyed my other friends Hy Gain TH 2.
Man, I was BIT by the home brew antenna thing! Then, a guy named Jim Lawson W2PV had the famous Papa Victor Yagi design, and I got hold of the National Bureau Of Standards Yagi Design sheet. I dreamed all winter long of what I would build, next!

So, here I am, nearly 30 years later, STILL into antennas, LOL

Right now, I have a Hy Gain Explorer 14, but my next project will probably be the spider beam.

Yes, the wire Opti Beam looks awesome too, of course.

One thing I noted from what you said about your top antenna in the stack "being at 55 feet" is this. I think that the effective height of a stack is determined by BOTH antennas. The radiation is from the middle of the stack I think ?
So, you are not really "up at 55 feet" if what I have been told is true.

I am quite familiar with the Force 12 antenna you speak about.
 It does not have the WARC Bands, but because it has no traps, it is said you can work them, w/o fear of popping a trap, and even has a bit of gain on 12 and 17!

I hear them on 17 all the time, being used with a tuner.

I do not think the Force 12 C 3 will equal one of your 2 element 17 meter monobanders, much less 2 of them in a stack.

But as far as a being your only HF Band antenna, it could turn out to be a winner for you, vs the old Cush Craft A 3.

Unlike the old A3, you can run it on 17 with power, and it may provide you enough antenna on 17 for those DXCC contacts you need:)

I do not care for an 80 meter dipole, operated on all HF Bands. Sure, with open wire feeders or ladder line, it can be tuned to "work", if you want to call it that.
But the higher up in frequency you go, the more Lobes (and deep nulls) you get.
If a station happens to be in a gain lobe, all is well. But, more often then not, a station will be in one of the deep nulls.
If I wanted a single wire antenna to cover from 80 through 10 meters, give me an array of dipoles, even trap dipoles, vs a full size 80 meter dipole, or even a OCF Windom type of all band antenna.

The little CushCraft MA 5B was quite popular here in Florida, but the Hex Beams have hurt the sales of it some.

I understand now, we all do the best we can, with what we have.

Have you ever considered a Spider Beam ? They have no traps, and I have heard them, opening and closing bands, as well as being quite competitive in the pileups.
They weigh virtually nothing, is why I mentioned them.

I own a Aluma Tower T 50. It is self supporting for 10 sq ft windload in an 80 mph wind/ Currently, I have a Hy Gain Explorer 14, with 40 meter add on kit.
It is an outstanding antenna, for it's size.
But when I upgrade, I am 90 percent sure it will be to a Spider Beam.
My Hy Explorer 14 with the 40 meter add on kit, is 8.5 sq ft of windload, kind of close to the limits of my tower.
The Spider Beam is under 4 sq ft of windload, though it is much larger in boom length.
I can really upgrade my signal, gain the WARC Bands, and cut my windload in 1/2, by going to the Spider Beam!

The Cush Craft will walk all over the MQ 26, but, it is bigger. The little MQ 26 works, but because it is so small, it pays the price.
No free lunch, I am sorry to say.
Check out the Q 52 from N6BT as well ? It is very small,

The Gem Quads did a great job, I remember them well!
Good luck to you, and here is some music, appropriate for the moment http://youtu.be/jFEIVkSHaJU

Theory, and practice, are far different. There is NO substitution for experimentation.
I know a Ham in Detroit with a Hustler Vertical with NO Radials on a 5 story apartment building, who does just fine. OK, the RF is going somewhere, maybe the rebar, furnace vents, or electric wires in the building are providing the missing 1/2 of the antenna, but something sure is.
LOL, we scared him so bad, he put RF Chokes in his coax, and his vertical still works.

I have to agree, I would simply fix and reinstall the G5RV.

But I would still keep my eye out for a used vertical, and TRY it, see what happens ?
If it works, keep it. If not, sell it. If you buy it used, you will not lose money.

Wow, the bottom antenna is pretty low ? Would you not have been better off to use a single 4 or 5 element Yagi at 54 feet, vs the stack of 2's ?

WHY ground it, at all ? Is not that kind of like ASKING for a lightning strike ?
I live in Tampa, we get a lot of lightning here. Plenty of ungrounded verticals on chimney mounts down here, never heard of any ungrounded verticals ever getting hit.

Merry Christmas to you too Mike! No "fuss" really, just a bunch of bored old guys, talking about design compromises in our antennas.
As G3TXQ  correctly pointed out, trap, no trap, or full size trapless monobanders, ALL are a compromise, in one way or another.
I think it as all about finding the right compromise for YOU, and your operating habits.

I own the Hy Gain Explorer 14, with the 40 meter add on kit for instance Mike. I wanted a small (no more then 14 ft boom) tribander, with the best 10 meter performance I could buy, on that boom length. The Hy Gain Explorer 14 is almost a "monobander" on 10 meters, compared to any other tribander I could buy, on that boom length. It has dual driven elements on 10 (no traps) and a trapless, full size separate 10 meter reflector. Only the director element has a trap in it, for 10 meters.
W4RNL felt the dual driven element feed system used for 10 meters in the Explorer 14 (Hy Gain calls it a Para Sleeve) give a small amount of extra gain vs a single dipole feed.
It also gives great 10 meter bandwidth as well!
I think the Hy Gain Explorer 14 is overall the best 14 foot boom tribander money can buy, and certainly the best on 10 Meters. Like I said earlier, 10 meter performance is a MUST for me. I feel Roger Cox did an awesome job on the Explorer 14 design, and made the right compromises for me, and what I want and expect, from a small tribander.

I am up at 50 feet, pretty much the same height as my friends, one who has the 24 foot boom Hy Gain 10 meter monobander, and one who has the 4 element SteppIR.
WE are all within 20 miles of each other.

DO I kick their butts ? Heck no, the 24  foot boom computer optimized 10 meter Hy Gain 10 meter monobander is king, followed by the 4 element SteppIR, then my little Explorer 14.

But, I am "right in there" with the big boys. Both of my friends constantly comment on the clean pattern the little Explorer 14 has, on 10 meters.
I live near Tampa, and often have 1/2 of South America trying to bust into the back of my beam. Often, I can hear stations with less interference then they can, but I just can not match the firepower of the 24 foot 10 meter Hy Gain monobander.
The 4 element SteppIR does not have the firepower of the Hy Gain 10 meter monobander. The signal differences between him and me are not nearly as great as me and my Exporer 14 vs the Hy Gain 10 meter monobander.
So, I feel like I made the right choice, for me/

Now, interestingly enough, we have another Ham Friend who has a small Hex Beam.
He is only up at 38 feet (we are all at 50 feet) though. He has truly excellent rejection on his little Hex Beam.
In fact, this is his SECOND Hex Beam! He started out with a Traffie Hex Beam, and did very well with it too. But, he was less then thrilled with the lack of front to rear rejection, on 10 meters. I told him all about the KIO Hex Beams, and how Steve Hunt was able to get better rejection with his design. So, he took the Traffie Hex Beam to a Ham Radio Tailgate at the last Tampa Hamfest. It sold right away!
USED Hex Beams are nearly impossible to find here in Florida. WE have many retired Hams (winter only residents) who want a small, decent performing lightweight beam antenna, they do not have to worry about in every thunderstorm.
He was able to get 400.00 for the used Traffie Hex Beam, put a few hundred dollars more with it, and ordered the K4KIO Hex Beam.
I remember both antennas well, and the KIO Hex Beam did exactly what he expected, it greatly reduced the South American interference.

So, getting back to the thread, it is all about compromises. Like me, my Hex Beam owning friend found the right compromise for him.

Maybe because he is 12 feet lower in elevation then us, the signal from the KIO Hex Beam is nearly always from 1/2 to 1 S Unit lower then we are. I am sure the little 2 element Hex Beam just does not have the gain the 3 of us have, but it was the right compromise for him.
So many antenna makers IMHO seem to always push Gain as their reason for existence. IF I had told my Ham Friend that the KIO Hex Beam had more gain then his Traffie Hex Beam, I feel quite sure my friend would have kept the Traffie.
But, because Steve Hunt chose to offer better front to rear rejection in his KIO Hex Beam design, his design was chosen as a compromise my friend was willing to accept, and BUY!

The Force 12 owning ham in this thread bought the N6BT Force 12 design, because it does what HE wants it to do.

He appears to be as happy with his choice of antennas, as I am with my Hy Gain Explorer 14 semi trap design.

And, my other friend, with the 24 ft long Hy Gain 10 meter monobander, bought his Yagi, as the ONLY antenna on his tower! He sacrificed all the other HF Bands, to be "King Chit" on 10 meters.

Guess what, not surprisingly, it worked! It truly "messes with him" though, that he does not "kill us" with the big monobander.
But, never underestimate a determined Ham!
The last time we talked, he sent me to the M2 web page, to look at the 42 foot long M2 7 element 10 meter monobander