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Author Topic: I'M SORRY, BUT I HAVE TO VENT!  (Read 36360 times)
K7MEM
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Posts: 413


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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 02:55:30 PM »

Regarding cats, I have one of those too.
Regarding the obesity thing, I'm skinny and most of the Hams I know are not obese.

I like dogs. I have four of then and there is never a shortage of bellies and head to rub.

I'm skinny too. But that comes with the territory. I have a small ranch with 6 horses. They dump out about 150 pounds of manure a day and I always get elected to pick it up and move it some where else. It makes for a nice walk around several acres pushing a wheelbarrow in front of me, that gets heavier with every stop.

I mostly listen in the CW and digital portions of the band, so I haven't run into your situation.
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Martin - K7MEM
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N8YX
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2015, 03:00:09 PM »


I mostly listen in the CW and digital portions of the band, so I haven't run into your situation.


And there, friends, is the proverbial elephant in the room.
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K7MEM
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« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2015, 06:26:51 AM »


I mostly listen in the CW and digital portions of the band, so I haven't run into your situation.


And there, friends, is the proverbial elephant in the room.

That may very well be true. I have been licensed, with a gap, since 1965. I have always heard about the terrible manners at the high end of 80, 40, and 20 meters. But in all that time, I have never been inclined to listen in. Ham radio is what you make it.
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Martin - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
W8JX
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« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2015, 07:16:49 AM »


I mostly listen in the CW and digital portions of the band, so I haven't run into your situation.


And there, friends, is the proverbial elephant in the room.

That may very well be true. I have been licensed, with a gap, since 1965. I have always heard about the terrible manners at the high end of 80, 40, and 20 meters. But in all that time, I have never been inclined to listen in. Ham radio is what you make it.


The most "snobby" hams I have heard have been on 80m with 20m being second. They can be quite arrogant. I never had much problem on 40m but rarely get above 7170.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K1CJS
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Posts: 6252




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« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2015, 08:09:23 AM »

...When CB was 23 channels and the radios were fairly expensive, CB thrived and was in most cases, fun.  Sure there were the same kind of people RND is talking about but they were the minority. 

Then the FCC changed the frequency allocation to 40 channels and the market was flooded with the now obsolete and consequently cheap 23 channel radios.  It seemed that now everyonehad a radio and that's when CB became complete chaos.  Today CB, when compared to what it was in it's "hey-day",  for all practical purposes is DEAD!

I can see the same thing happening to ham radio but at a somewhat slower rate.  But, it is happening and will eventually become chaotic and then as we knew it, die.

Today, HR is money driven.  That's the reason for the present day testing methods.  Keep the hobby alive and make it easier to get licensed to compete with the Internet and cell phones.  Bottom line.

When things are in demand, production will increase and costs will drop.  Don't blame the CB craze on cheap, plentiful radios--blame it on popularity.  People were going to get on the air whether or not radios were cheap or they were expensive.

Ham radio isn't only money driven, it's ARRL driven too, but for different reasons.  Trying to keep the hobby alive, for one.  Face it.  If the testing and licensing were to stay at the level they were at, there wouldn't be a tenth of the new hams that there are currently being licensed.  And the kicker is that there would be just as much rudeness and ill mannered behavior on the bands, because easily half of that behavior on the bands now is from long licensed old time hams.   
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N1RND
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2015, 10:49:08 AM »

K1CJS is completely correct!
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KG7CSS
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2015, 11:27:43 AM »

I'm with JX.  I saw the same thing happen to CB.  When CB was 23 channels and the radios were fairly expensive, CB thrived and was in most cases, fun.  Sure there were the same kind of people RND is talking about but they were the minority. 

Then the FCC changed the frequency allocation to 40 channels and the market was flooded with the now obsolete and consequently cheap 23 channel radios.  It seemed that now everyonehad a radio and that's when CB became complete chaos.  Today CB, when compared to what it was in it's "hey-day",  for all practical purposes is DEAD!

I can see the same thing happening to ham radio but at a somewhat slower rate.  But, it is happening and will eventually become chaotic and then as we knew it, die.

Today, HR is money driven.  That's the reason for the present day testing methods.  Keep the hobby alive and make it easier to get licensed to compete with the Internet and cell phones.  Bottom line.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc  with a side  of  straw man.

Increasing  the number of channels have nothing to do  with the death  of cb; more likely it is  sunspot activity, cell phones, and  bubble economics of  the CB fad. The same  with ham radio,  I do not believe the  No code requirement is the problem in ham radio.

To me all the nastiness and snobbery seem to part of our human nature. I am part of the anime, science fiction and  furry fandoms, I seen the same  elitism there as in here. Some time I look at this forum and see the same childness and the inability to make a rational argument and stay on topic here  as on 4chan.

Your not helping ranting  like 14 year old , stick to the radio spin the dial and try to be the solution than rating because I just ignore you like 60% of the post here.
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K2DFC
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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2015, 05:21:53 PM »

This has nothing to do with hard or easy testing. It has to do with society in general. Nobody has any values anymore. Have you watched TV lately? Do you see many programs where you don't hear the constant "BEEP BEEP BEEP" of censoring. People don't care anymore. Bad language is common place today, so why wouldn't you expect to hear it on the ham bands. The same reason any DXpedition will attract QRMers who just want to make life miserable for others.
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W8JX
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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2015, 06:08:29 PM »

This has nothing to do with hard or easy testing.

Not true at all. With easy requirements a lot of CBers moved to ham radio and took attitude with them. With mail order no code ticket that is easy to get there is a lot of operators that would not be there today under old rules. The rules caved to lobbyist for equipment sales for sort term profits with no concern for long term effect. Just like gun lobby. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K2DFC
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Posts: 97




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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2015, 07:05:49 PM »

So if we make the exams 2 or 3 times harder we'll no longer have bad behaver? No cursing, no QRMing. No 14.313.
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2015, 07:39:49 PM »

Almost every country has removed the code and made the exams easier yet the bad behavior typically comes from just two countries. So No it's not the code, it's the societies in these countries that are the root cause.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
K8AXW
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Posts: 6310




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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2015, 08:13:07 PM »

Wow!  CJS: There is indeed an element of truth in what you say.  However, I was an active part of the CB craze even though at the time I was an Extra Class ham.  

I not only saw what happened to CB when the FCC opened the CB spectrum from 23 to 40 channels but experienced it with a boat load of 23 channel radios that wasn't worth 50% of their initial selling price!  

Along with that change, and I'm talking a time period of less than 3 months, the CB channels was inundated with two kinds of people.  One: They didn't have a clue on anything and Two: A group of people that were obnoxious, couldn't take advice, would "walk on" a conversation and had no interest in assimilating were on the air.  Consequently, it became chaotic and eventually most of the old time CBrs simply dropped it and let the other have it.

Others have mentioned Congress and funding.  This is also true.  It also true that many of the American people, have simply become self centered and think only of themselves.  We read of the almost daily dust-up between the schools and the students with law suits flying all over the place.  This is the day that schools are expected to raise the kids but at the same time the kids "can do no wrong." This seems to be the era when it's. "You offend me and I'll sue your ass!"

Bottom line is the whole country is changing.  Now with the oldtimers we find on 75m and some on 20m.....I don't have a clue except to suggest that perhaps they are disgusted with the way ham radio is going and they themselves have developed a nasty attitude.

Quote
With easy requirements a lot of CBers moved to ham radio and took attitude with them. With mail order no code ticket that is easy to get there is a lot of operators that would not be there today under old rules. The rules caved to lobbyist for equipment sales for sort term profits with no concern for long term effect

This is true.  Humans have little respect or place little value on anything that is GIVEN to them.  If a price has to be paid for something, it is taken care of.  Will reverting to the "old days" correct what is going on 14,313?  No.  I'm afraid the nasty genie is out of the bottle.

Quote
Ham radio isn't only money driven, it's ARRL driven too, but for different reasons.


"It's ARRL driven" is true.  The existence of the ARRL and ham radio itself is determined by the number of hams on the air.  The way to increase the number of hams is to make it easier to get a ticket.  The Internet and cell phones have created a major problem for ham radio.  The larger number of hams becomes an incentive for companies to build gear for these hams.  Again, the bottom line is MONEY.  

As an aside, if it wasn't for the ARRL, there would be no ham radio! That should be kept in mind.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 08:19:42 PM by K8AXW » Logged
W8JX
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Posts: 12080




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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2015, 08:30:22 PM »

Almost every country has removed the code and made the exams easier yet the bad behavior typically comes from just two countries. So No it's not the code, it's the societies in these countries that are the root cause.

I disagree. Lot more hams here than many other countries combined. It is not total cause but opening flood gates with easy tickets did make it a lot worse. You are in denial to think otherwise.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K5TED
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Posts: 90




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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2015, 08:57:56 PM »

yeah, in a hobby where DX pileups, aka 'shouting matches', are de rigeur and encouraged even to the point of fostering lore, there is incivility... ok.
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 5053




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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2015, 04:14:03 PM »

Almost every country has removed the code and made the exams easier yet the bad behavior typically comes from just two countries. So No it's not the code, it's the societies in these countries that are the root cause.

I disagree. Lot more hams here than many other countries combined. It is not total cause but opening flood gates with easy tickets did make it a lot worse. You are in denial to think otherwise.

What you need to do is what I did.  Why don't you start to record the bad behavior during a dxpedition, especially those foul mouthed cops and then try to match those same voice to ops in QSO's on that same band on another day.  When you think the guy sounds the same record him and then play both recording back.  You will soon discover what I did, and that is that most of the guys involved in this are old time ham operators that believe that everyone who makes a mistake is a no coder and therefore gets the title of "CBer", "Dumb Ass" or "Moron".  These same guys soon get further frustrated and start to actually QRM the DX with long conversations cussing out one another or anyone who decides to reciprocate their foul language.  Often times this creates a domino effect that leads to several stations QRMing the Frequency with no regard for the DX operator.

So when you make your statements about CBers I suggest you do some investigation first before making that assumption.  And BTW a lot of the QRMers are also old timers who hold nets that fall within the range of the DX's split.  Very few new hams are involved in Nets.

The third reason your argument is weak is because numerous old time ham operators have already stated that this kind of behavior has been going on for decades.

The fourth reason that your statements is weak is that I know from experience from all the hobbies I have been in that the new people tend to be timid and cautious and rarely make trouble.  They tend to spend a great deal of time observing how it's done and they are typically not trying to make waves.  On the other hand there always seems to be a group of more experienced guys in every hobby that tend to have a superiority complex and are quick to get upset if the new guy makes a mistake as if they never did the same thing when they started.   I have to admit Ham Radio takes the cake as one of the most polarizing hobbies I have ever been in.  It consists of some really outstanding older guys that are very helpful and very kind and generous and then some equally outstanding Jerks that enjoy showing off their "knowledge" at every turn while berating everyone who does not share their opinion.

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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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