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Author Topic: I'M SORRY, BUT I HAVE TO VENT!  (Read 36407 times)
K1CJS
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« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2015, 11:04:29 AM »

...Several years ago everybody wanted new people in the hobby to keep it from dying.....now they are crying because the new people don't see things like the old-timers do. Its time to just chill out, police ourselves, and enjoy the amazing things that can be done with ham radio!
And remember that elmering/mentoring a "newbie" is better for everybody than critisizing people and creating hard feelings.

Well said!
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K2GWK
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« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2015, 08:44:19 AM »

Several years ago everybody wanted new people in the hobby to keep it from dying.....now they are crying because the new people don't see things like the old-timers do. Its time to just chill out, police ourselves, and enjoy the amazing things that can be done with ham radio!

And remember that elmering/mentoring a "newbie" is better for everybody than critisizing people and creating hard feelings.

+10000
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Guy
Lawn Guyland, New York

K2GWK Website
N7ZAL
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« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2015, 11:25:04 AM »

Quote
And remember that elmering/mentoring a "newbie" is better for everybody than critisizing people and creating hard feelings.

Things work both ways and it should be the new ham trying to fit in, not the experienced hams having to adulterate themselves.
I've just about given up attempts at mentoring newer hams because there is a certain arrogance and ignorance.

An example is the AE who didn't know ohms law and said he didn't need to know it. That is the "new" ham. They are lucky the exams are so easy today or they would still be back on CB.  JMO
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Later, Bill N7ZAL (ex. WA2DPB, WB3BOC, N2FWS)
W9FIB
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« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2015, 09:20:29 PM »

All too often mentoring aka elmering means trying to force a certain set of standards on someone. And the arrogance from them is probably caused by those standards not being inline with the elmer.

By the same token, those being elmered probably think the same thing of the elmer.

To me, elmering is like getting on hf. Listen, listen, then listen some more. New hams will discover things as they start out. They like to talk about it. A good listener will be able to do that and then ask a question that relates to what the new ham just discovered. This provokes a dialog then to expand on the discovery. Next thing you know, that dialog just taught the new ham something, and the new ham probably didn't even realize it happened.

The extra that doesn't know Ohms Law? So what? I don't see Ohms Law pressing a mic button, or tapping the key to make CW. I don't see Ohms Law properly tuning an amplifier. I don't see a Bode plot calling CQ. I don't see a DMM ragchewing on 40 with a friend. I don't see a Norton Equivalent making a first contact on the local repeater. I have never seen a data sheet for some IC spinning the big knob looking for a clear frequency. I don't see an oscilloscope bending someone's ear with a good joke.

Too many people think that unless you can do some form of electrical engineering, you can't be a good ham. Hogwash! A person can be a great OP without all the electronics theory. Now I will agree that someone with a minimal electronics knowledge is more likely to be self sufficient when equipment problems arise. But I can show you electrical engineers who can design really great stuff, but can't turn on a flashlight. I have worked under a couple of them.

The notion that we need to be able to build equipment today like it was the 1950's is just wrong. Why do you think HR has the reputation that it is only for nerds? The answer is we tell others they don't fit for this reason or that. You have to have in depth knowledge of how a radio works in order to operate it. This is a common theme I see quite often. Do you really expect a doctor, a lawyer, a factory worker, or even a kid to REALLY understand electronics? And yet we have many of them, and many are great OPs.

I look at HR as a hobby with so many possibilities. I look at the hobby as a way to discover things. I look at the hobby as a place to learn. I look at the hobby as a place where any skill level can be involved. I look at the hobby as a place to make mistakes.

Some people refer to their FCC license as a ticket. To me it is closer to the truth then not. Because it really is a ticket to take a ride through a place that can be fun and educational. The problem comes in from some that either want to ruin others fun, or somehow side track them into some distant corner to stare at a blank wall. And the only thing I have ever learned from a blank wall is how to be bored and discouraged.

I still learn new things all the time. And I have a degree in electronics and been a ham close to 30 years now. I just bought my first hf amplifier. Found out rather quickly that my electronics degree never prepared me to tune up an SB-200! Yes I can hear people laughing as they read this. But it is true. While I have a good understanding of HOW it works, but it takes time and practice to actually make it work. And maybe even a question or 2.

And in my estimation, that is what this hobby is all about. The day I know it all is the day I tear up my ticket and get out of the hobby. But the truth is, with all the different things there is to this hobby, that day will never come. There are those that say they know enough. Complacent in the idea that they know enough. That is fine for them. They enjoy the hobby based on what they know and do. And if that is what makes the hobby fun for them, that's great. But I am not that person, and have yet to find the person who really knows it all.

There will always be good OPs, and bad OPs. If Marconi were alive, he would probably tell you stories of bad OPs he dealt with in his time. But to deny opportunity to many for the sins of the few is a huge mistake. HR will never be without problem OPs. But not lifting a finger to help those who strive to do more, or try to be better OPs because they MAY become bad OPs is not the solution.

OK there was my vent since this is a venting thread!
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Happy being an Amateur Extra!
Nothing says CB on my printed license.
Ares/Races but no lights or crown vic.
KM4AH
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« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2015, 04:14:10 AM »

I actually like the new crowd myself, minus the cursing.

I mean really, who wants to listen to a bunch of old farts monotone their keen grasp of fifty year old technology. Answers you can find on the internet in some fraction of a second.

Or, complain on some forum that everybody else is not equally as boring.
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K4RCH
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« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2015, 05:41:29 AM »

...
Too many people think that unless you can do some form of electrical engineering, you can't be a good ham. Hogwash! A person can be a great OP without all the electronics theory....

The notion that we need to be able to build equipment today like it was the 1950's is just wrong....

I look at HR as a hobby with so many possibilities. I look at the hobby as a way to discover things. I look at the hobby as a place to learn....

OK there was my vent since this is a venting thread!
Very well said!


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N7AHE
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Posts: 15




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« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2015, 06:06:05 AM »

...
Too many people think that unless you can do some form of electrical engineering, you can't be a good ham. Hogwash! A person can be a great OP without all the electronics theory....

The notion that we need to be able to build equipment today like it was the 1950's is just wrong....

I look at HR as a hobby with so many possibilities. I look at the hobby as a way to discover things. I look at the hobby as a place to learn....

OK there was my vent since this is a venting thread!
Very well said!


Very, Very well said. I do have an electronics background (lab equipment, not ham) and the 'ya gotta build yer own' attitude is what kept me out of the hobby since the 70s. The 'Evil One' then was the new ham that bought a commercial rig (especially a Japanese rice box). If it was 'solid state' you were complete anathema. Finally decided to get my license last year and am having fun. A little disappointing to find that the old guys are still here deriding a new target.

The possibilities in the hobby are huge. Yes, the regulations, simple politeness and manners need to be observed, but let people find and pursue those parts that interest them. If they want to build a tube radio - great, go for it. If they want to use their computer as a radio control device, no problem (even combining the Internet - oh, horror). Just CW - sure; SSB only - why not. RTTY, PSK, Packet, QRP, QRO, etc. etc. etc. Hopefully we will continue to see even more innovative technology and modes.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 03:48:50 PM by N7AHE » Logged
K9MHZ
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« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2015, 06:22:17 AM »

Too many people think that unless you can do some form of electrical engineering, you can't be a good ham. Hogwash! A person can be a great OP without all the electronics theory. Now I will agree that someone with a minimal electronics knowledge is more likely to be self sufficient when equipment problems arise. But I can show you electrical engineers who can design really great stuff, but can't turn on a flashlight. I have worked under a couple of them.

I think it's a matter of degree.  The annoyance comes from that Extra Class licensee who needs help soldering a PL-259, and there are plenty out there like that.  It is different today.  Much of the "knowledge" of the past was of equipment that was primitive by today's standards.  Our "knowledge" seems headed toward understanding the systems of things, rather than the Ohm's Law analysis of biasing that pair of 6146s of the past.  I think my vent would be that of people thinking "damn right, I don't need to know that!", and being proud of it.  Of course, people trying to manhood measure on the air with tech-talk don't help, but there has to be at least some measure of a desire to know something about the technical side of a technical hobby.

 
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K2DFC
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« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2015, 06:36:06 AM »

But this whole discussion had nothing to do with "the technical side of a technical hobby". It had to do with rude behavior and people being jackasses. And somehow not being an electrical engineering major was the cause of it. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

K2DFC
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K9MHZ
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« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2015, 08:06:12 AM »

Well, maybe after 6 full pages of replies, you might just get a thread veer.  It happens.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2015, 08:40:09 AM »

Two simple questions.

1 - Take away the "technology" part of ham radio.  What do you have?  The answer is CB.

2 - Whenever a problem or question comes up, who does the 'know nothing ham' jump too?  The answer is the ham that has learned ohms law.

The electrical engineer who couldn't tune his newly acquired amp probably asked someone who knew. That person no doubt was one who learned how an amplifier is built and what it takes to make it work.  

I read questions on this forum everyday that almost anyone can answer that earned his "ticket" by studying electronic theory not memorizing the answers to pre-published questions.

Ham radio has always been a technical hobby populated by people who has an interest in electronics.  Of course the final goal was to be able to communicate with others who has the same interest. But the path to communicating was paved with effort and in the early days, blood, sweat and tears.  

If we take away this "interest" and go from zero to OP without knowing anything, what do you have?  A very large CB band!  And we can see where that went!!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 08:47:02 AM by K8AXW » Logged
N7ZAL
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« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2015, 09:22:32 AM »

Hard to disagree with anything in your post.  Smiley
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Later, Bill N7ZAL (ex. WA2DPB, WB3BOC, N2FWS)
K2DFC
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« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2015, 09:48:57 AM »

K8AXW
But what does that have to do with rude, obnoxious, foul mouth behavior while on the air. These are two separate arguments. So if you don't know Ohms Law or can't solder a PL-259 your more prone to curse on the air?
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K1CJS
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« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2015, 11:30:47 AM »

I think that what some people are trying to say is that people who have little or no idea of electronic theory and practical electronics get into ham radio for the wrong reasons--at least in their opinion.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2015, 05:18:04 PM »

CJS:  You're correct....IMHO.  In most cases, anything you have to work for is appreciated more.

Now it must be understood there are those old timers who are creating havoc on some bands and their is no excuse for that.  They know better and probably spent most of their ham careers "playing the game" as it is supposed to be played.  Then something happened to them....old age, senility....whatever... has created the attitude they presently have.

I can only hope that most of the ham community ignores them or the FCC nails them. 

I also hope that those that become hams learn something other than how to push the PTT button.

I also hope to win the Mega-lottery.

All of these are in the same box.
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